That's what he was trying to do. Stir up xenophobia/hatred with enough of humanity, as opposed to more likely grumbling at most, in order to later point that towards the Reapers. Many of the Cerberus troops in ME3 were brainhacked refugees and such, but many were easily lured in with the increasingly public face of Cerberus, and these people were part of the effect of a political project of decades.
Adam Wigley It did work out for humanity though. Even with all its/his arguable or clear (however you see it) failures, the sequence of Cerberus events were apparently necessary for the defeat of the Reapers. And the writers have at least some opening for Cerberus as an ideology to continue. But yes TIM by most accounts (except special theories) and Cerberus the terrorist organization are dead.
+Malcolm Swoboda It just seems like the galaxy would be more accepting of each other as they all fought together to push back the Reapers. I mean I guess humans could hate the few species that didn't help but I doubt it
Adam Wigley Much of the galaxy will be in greater acceptance but that: a)doesn't mean all of the galaxy, b)doesn't mean that everyone pushed back the Reapers and they didn't form that same sort of bond. In all ME3 endings, there's still the opening for the writers to include post-war events that disrupted peace. Even Synthesis.
I actually quite liked the Illusive Man character, and I thought he was an effective villain mainly because I thought he raised some good points. What I didn't like about the Illusive Man was his treatment in the third game. I think he would have been far more effective if he simply *disagreed* with Shephard and did things his own way, rather than to be *gasp*Indoctrinated*gasp* all that time. Throughout the games we're constantly told that they were the cutting edge of humanity's protection and 'advancement', but given that so much of our interaction was antagonistic, I think it's a shame that some of their successes wasn't so well highlighted. The original Normandy's construction is one, I think even Medi-gel itself was one of their things too (not sure, I know Sirta was creditted with it, but of course, you can't credit a secret organisation!) and of course, the *small* matter of Shephard's resurrection from the dead which was remarkably downplayed in and of itself.
Not necessarily. While I disagree with the direction he took in ME3, you could argue that by committing terrible acts now we would eventually learn enough to save more people in the future. Example, if you are performing medical experiments on living people and you find a cure for cancer while doing so, in the future you will save millions of lives at the expense of a few test subjects. While it is completely immoral to do so, from a utilitarian perspective the logic is sound. The sad truth is that our world is a better place because of the immoral actions of people who came before us.
Are you justifying committing savage atrocities in the interest of the supposed greater good? There was never and there will never be a reality where the human race's immorality is its saving grace. I mean, we're talking about experimenting on human children, and other sentient races against their will. Most if not all of whom died painfully in the end. Nothing came of it, and even if something did, it is absolutely not worth it. In my opinion, the illusive man lost his soul in the process of "saving" the human race. It's why by the end of the ordeal he resembled nothing but a blood hungry villain. You just can't commit these atrocities and remain human. At some point, you're just a monster with the faintest hint of ideals. He crossed that line long ago.
They can still be a great asset, if you go that way. Unless you believe strongly in the Indoctrination Theory, it can be considered that stuff like the Collector Base Reaper Brain and Cerberus' general research, etc, were large assets for the Crucible being able to Control the Reapers. They just never were direct (in ME3) and honest (in ME2) help as true allies.
What? Just remove the war assets youve recovered from Cerberus and check your real assets. Humanity won because Cerberus. Even though they were indoctrinated they did good researches and helped your case unintentionally.
I acknowledge Cerberus for only a few things. 1. They have badass equipment and awesome looking troops. 2. Humanity was unprepared for sudden access to the galactic stage, so a secret organization to help humanity progress seems logical in an entire galaxy of threats 3. They did actually make some improvements and advances to humanity However, I couldn't agree with their methods as they did what all Supremacy groups do and dive into radicalism, losing their humanity in the process. There was nothing to keep them in check and their stance against aliens could only get in the way of true progress, achieved by bringing the talents of all species together and forging a different future, as we do with Shepard.
There's a follow up lore video to this coming about the general reaper invasion. That video will cover the fall of Cerberus and other events taking place during Mass Effect 3.
In the first game, one of the missions leads to the destruction of Cerberus, according to the codex. Do you have any thoughts on their rebuilding, or whether they were even destroyed?
+Kritikalitee I'd have to guess that what gets destroyed in that game is simply a Cerberus cell. I don't think the writers had finished building Cerberus at that point.
I didnt know about a lot of this, the way Cerberus runs is very smart, I feel like the idea behind cerberus makes sense but as always it grows and it becomes more part of the problem than a solution, great video
I really wish that Cerberus would have remained intact in ME3. Instead of the Illusive man going nuts, here's what they could have done. Have him build some secret super weapon made from the Collector base tech to fight the reapers, so he makes humanity be the hero. But the weapon fails in some spectacular way, and then have him finally and begrudgingly join Shepherd in the fight with the rest of the Galaxy. It would have been a much better story arch then what we got. Heck,you could still have Shepherd fight Cerberus in some fashion before the Illusive man joins you.
I like this idea, but everyone with Desolas and the Arca Monolith means that TIM was probably well on his way to being Indoctrinated by the time Saren and the Heretic Geth attacked Eden Prime. Sure, him implanting himself with Collector Tech made him the Reapers' puppet, but they were in mind as he killing Pople Clement XVI and ordering live experiments on Human children.
That would have been good and if TIM was still alive at the end, he gets house arrest in a comfortable prison. Like in Star field what happened with the UC admiral who was a war criminal.
I did all of the Cerberus related missions in ME1, did all of the companion missions and side quests in ME2, and given everything that they did in ME3 prior to going completely insane...fuck Cerberus. Seriously. I was glad when I found out that both Jacob and Miranda had left in ME3.
I absolutely enjoyed the comic with TIM's origin story. It was a really great read and made me appreciate him as a villain all that more. This video greatly sums up everything really well. This makes me hope that there's a sort of faction option in Andromeda. A lot like Fallout 4 where you can play for several sides and then choose which one to support. I really didn't like being stuck as Alliance Loyal in Mass Effect, but I understand why that was the case. Shepard was a character. I had some options on what decisions he or she made, but Shepard always had a core character they did not stray from. Alliance Loyal was part of that.
When and if Mass Effect 4 comes out, I’d love to see him return, with the Reapers destroyed, just to see how things would be different or if he would really be a big villain.
People Cerberus have hurt Opposing human politicians 22 Salarian criminals Asari Captives and a matriarch Live Human Children A bunch of quarians and almost an entire flotilla Human Alliance Admirals Turian Hiearchy figures Memebers of the human system's alliance The Human Pope People Cerberus Has Helped Batarian Pirates
Cerberus had the right idea, and I think that if the Salarians can use the STG, Cerberus has a right to exist, seeing how both are Salarian and Human suvivalist groups. My problem with Cerberus is only with the experimentation of children, and the whole ME3 plot line regarding them, I personally think the ME3 Cerberus was just badly written, while the children one is just wrong. However, on the flip side Cerberus is the reason Humans have a somewhat relevant biotic population
Interesting piece. I was kind of confused, however, by the lack of information given on the events of Mass effect 1. I'm mostly referring to Cerberus's interactions with Rear Admiral Kuhoku, Corporal Toombs at Akuze, Thorian creepers, and the rachni. Were they not important to the Cerberus story?
You'll notice that I don't get into many specifics on their actions in any of the games. These lore videos are mostly about background information or things you don't necessarily get while playing the Mass Effect series. Though I would argue that in the grand scheme of the Cerberus organization their actions in the original Mass Effect aren't significant when compared to the majority of the stuff I cover in this video.
For what I heard from ME3 each cycle had it's own Illusive man and cerberus (splinter group) I still feel Cerberus/Illusive man would have respect for the galactic empire
Just a random thought, what if aliens with very long lifespans on their way to Andromeda don't go into stasis. That asari in the latest trailer may have been part of a crew who looks after the arc. I mean, this all hinges on how much teamwork there is.
I'm still going to make a video on the extended universe that might better answer your question. I really liked the foundation comics but I'm not sure if that's the right starting point.
So what I'm getting from this is that the child-experimentation on the Pragia Facility to be the only disagreeable factor. Even that is up for debate whether or not TIM directed it.
hay Minius GC is it ok if I could suggest talking about the collectors since like the protheans they played a key role in the mass effect lore mainly in mass effect 2. its just a suggestion. like the lore vid so far
Also a lot of people don't realize that Dr. Eva Core in ME:3 is named after his friend from the comic Evolution. His other friend Ben from the same comic has a Cerberus facility named after him "Hislop". You might have added that when Jack Harper (Illusive Man) came into contact with the Arca Monolith from the comic he became partially indoctrinated, and that how he got his blue eyes as seen in ME:2, and ME:3.
I figured. You do really well on your videos. Just brought it up; because I recently read a post of how some of the people who believe in the indoctrination theory of Shepard compare their eyes. Most forget that Shepard has cybernetic implants from when Cerberus rebuilt him/her. Giving their character that cool eye, and facial scarring if they mostly go renegade with their play through.
Yea I had the possibility of that reaper artifact indoctrinating both the Illusive Man and Saren in early drafts for those lore videos but I didn't like the way it fit with the flow of those videos. I'm too concerned with how my videos flow, lol.
Not sure how that would have worked considering in the novel Revelations it was at the end when he found Sovereign. Which was some time after the comic, and he was a Specter by then. He did hate humanity by the end of the comic, but wanted them all dead after those events because of what happened to his brother. Hence his quote at the end of Evolution. "I will mourn for you --" and avenge you. Right after he called in an orbital strike on the temple.
That's pretty much my issue with that. The indoctrination from that device doesn't seem to fit perfictly. But there's no denying that something happened to both Saren and the Illusive Man.
I think the writers changed that. At least that's the assumption I made this video under. Someday I'd like to sit down with some Mass Effect writers and go over their entire creative process. I think that would be fascinating.
Me1 remaster should be focused on making colonies look like actual colonies not 3 buildings on a planet maybe make the cerb missions similar to the Leviathan DLC
Best faction! Illusive man did nothing wrong.. I hope they're part of the survival mission to Andromeda. Would be *awesome*. Maybe to stop the other species fleeing?
Well a good game wouldn't be good without a great villain. I liked how multi-faceted they were. I mean, no faction was really 100% good, Cerberus certainly weren't nice guys, but they were very idealistic and inspiring (before the Reapers got involved). You can respect someone even if you disagree with them.
If they come back (which many, many will hate, but some will like and some will at least accept), I don't anticipate their previous organization (which itself shifted in the narrative, though not so much in the plot itself) to be what they are. Instead they could be followers that appreciate the ideals of the Illusive Man, and act in still problematic ways, though perhaps not - at least mostly - as problematic as in the trilogy. And for all we know, they could change name, symbols, structure. I sure as hell don't want to see Major Enemy Unit Faction Cerberus ever again, but it would not be something I oppose if there's more story to be told, even if it takes a relative backseat to the wonders of the Helius Cluster.
One of the biggest pluses of Cerberus, in my opinion, was that Illusive Man was one of the few who was aware of the Reaper threat and he likely did about the best he could do, while being in the state of being partially Reaper augmented. Sure people/characters can just brand him as only evil, and their perspective would have great validity, but there's a lot of context behind his mind and actions. Antagonist for sure, but what he stood for before the Reapers was understandable, what he stood for after the Reapers was sympathetic, and what happened to him would happen to anyone, including Shepard (and Bioware may even be completely aware of that, looking at ME3 concept are of a highly Reaper augmented Shepard that fueled Indoc Theory).
I, for one, like the IDEA of Cerberus. What I don't agree with are some of their actions. I hope with andromeda, since the whole theme is about the races trying to colonize planets, that Cerberus sees a kind of rebirth. Hopefully as an acting force for human colonization, just without the craziness.
Cerberus was fine by me until they started countering Reaper War, but even then they had a good point, using the enemies tactics and techs against them is the smart thing to do, in Zulu War, the British suffered many losses for that, and USA backed a lot of fleeing European scientists, many from Nazi Germany, one gave a big help to the Space Run against the soviets! But they forgot one thing: They're Reapers, and they indoctrinate if not taken necessary precautions!
I've actually tried to follow the timeline of the series and its side media, and I think its quite possible that Cerberus would have taken every necessary precaution (save for simply destroying all pieces of Reaper tech they see), if it wasn't for Shepard and others (but especially Shepard) interfering with Cerberus plans and further layers and adjusted plans, to the point that they/TIM becomes so desperate (but arrogant still) by the end as to rush-mindhack troops and even implant TIM further. They seemed to have solid enough plans the earlier you consider things, but it always carried too much risk anyway, so we root for Shepard who at least for the most part recognizes that in this battle of galactic extinction, you can't just play around with trying to exploit the gigantic murdering megagod machines.
in mass effect 3 if you made peace or kill the geth. now the quarians have there planet back you think the quarian flotilla stops to exist or there stil a small flotilla left? and how you think there building style would look like. not going to see it in andromeda but interestng to think about.
The remnants of Cerberus need to be folded back into the HSA especially their research and development operations, technology as well. The next ME game should highlight the HSA rebuilding and rearming, including recolonization and expansion. The HSA should break away from those laws that make them weak militarily
Mass Effect borrows heavily from thr Uplift Universe. In it Cerberus is a space station which contains a code that calls the Uplift Universe's equivalent of the Reapers. All in all, Mass Effect us a less dark version of the UU.
Well done. I think the Illusive man was indoctrinated from the comics, however. That alien artifact? It's implied to be reaper tech, and he does take a jolt from it.
It is explained that husks have specific Reaper controllers (though it gets more complicated than that, given the inner workings of a Reaper, how it networks with other Reapers, and is apparently guided by the Catalyst which is guided by the collective Reaper knowledge in turn). We do not know what Reaper controlled the artifact that affected Harper. It could have been Harbinger. It could have been Sovereign. It could have been another one waiting in Dark Space. It could have been the Derelict Reaper and therefore have no 'direction' except general 'Reaperness'. It could have been none, and simply infused Harper with technology the Reapers could later subtly exploit when they arrived. His indoctrination is not very deeply described, so it is up to us to believe what we will - was he only controlled in the very general sense until the end, or were the Reapers always manipulating him carefully? Was he largely free willed, or was he always a mind slave that didn't realize? In any case, as soon as he was jolted, he bought at least slightly into the Reaper way of existence, and that only grew.
+Minius GC Ahh yes. As much as I love 2 and 3, the disdain and contempt in which the writers of 2 and 3 seemed to have had for the first was very disappointing and disheartening. Why retcon, ignore or contradict the one that created the foundation? Cerberus' size in 3 is ridiculous. I'm glad Andromeda seems to be using the first as the main inspiration.
I had to look that up (there are so many tiny stories on planetary descriptions). I don't think there's any other info than the two paragraphs though. Would make a neat video if we knew more.
Minius GC yeah I remember saving a guy from a Cerberus experiment in Mass Effect 1 and remember hearing that Cerberus was a part of the Alliance as a secret black ops organization that was super low on the poll.
+antoine browne While the actual explanation might be that the writers changed some stuff, I like to believe that, like the video says, no one in Cerberus truly knows what's going on in their organization, they only what they are allowed to believe, as the Illusive Man holds all the cards.
I really hated that they were turned into cartoonish villains in ME3. They could've still been an antagonist faction with there own agenda but they could've been like the renegade way of gathering resources. And perhaps they have there own missions and decisions that be helpful or an detriment to the other alien races. Then the player has to make the difficult choices or eithering helping them out, or ignoring them, or balancing the two sides. What bioware did instead was disappointing.
Hey Minius, still think you should do a video on the Illusive Man's motives throughout ME3 and when he finally became indoctrinated. So many people seem to have missed the videos in the game which explain his plans and when he became indoctrinated (and having missed this in-game content, they conclude that he must have been indoctrinated during the First Contact War after his brief contact with the artifact, as shown in the comics). See here for example and keep up the good work :) : www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/4yn7a7/do_you_ever_catch_yourself_thinking_about_plot/
They aren't that wrong, the alien races are not like ethnicity on earth. On earth were all human and we have similar cultures but the aliens are extremely hard to relate too. Many of the aliens are dangerous it's not survival of nation or culture but of the species. Now many of the things they did were wrong. However, with that said in a situation like mass effect, Cerberus was necessary. Every terrible thing they did helped humanity in the end. Sometimes terrible horrible things benefit us down the line it just takes time to renounce those actions while not losing the benefits so those who were murdered, tortured and taken advantage of don't do so in vain.
some are part trolls, however more importantly, though Cerberus is a fictional organization, the ideology, fear and ignorance reflect the sentiment by many people in the real world. we only need to look at our human history to see this.
I didn't even know about all that criminal activity Cerberus did (apart from that one ME1 mission). The second game makes a huge deal out of it and yet we never saw much of them prior; How did you acquire all that info? Was it already to be found in ME1's codex or other side missions?
In ME1 the Cerberus story is small and even totally optional, but both with ME1 theorizing at the time and ME2+ confirmation/retcons, a great deal more of ME1's world is Cerberus influenced than the core ME1 plot states. Cerberus does not seem to be directly involved with the deal with Sovereign and Saren, but they may have been keeping track of some of it and S+S may have been vice versa. Then with the fall of Sovereign and Saren and then Shepard, the Illusive Man gives the go ahead for Cerberus to take a more active and overt position in the galaxy and try to use Shepard as at least a disposable (but expensive) tool, and at most eventually their potential figurehead against the Reapers (imo it is implied).
the only bad thing about Cerberus is that the ends justify the means even sacrificing other humans. apart from that, in totally in with Cerberus and Terra Firma.
+Minius GC Okay, apparently not the next video but I'll be touching on this soon. +Malcolm Swoboda is right though - if Cerberus is in the game the organization will be different.
Bout to get political. Cerberus could reflect current orgs and parties. Well intended, but led by madmen...or women who's main goals are suppression and supremacy.
They have somehow infiltrated many-to-most major corporations of the Alliance, and have more subtle sway over other galactic economies. Cerberus considers itself 'humanity' because it has had a major role in the advancement of human interests (though one may argue what in particular those are) for decades. Another idea is that The Illusive Man has been augmented with his Reaper technology to have an 'improved' state that is able to keep better track of the pace of civilizations, and therefore it gives him a boost in ability to determine smarter choices for human - and Cerberus - power.
The music is a track called Robots Make Robots by Serhii Kot, who also goes by SoundWizard. ( soundwizard.info ) I don't know if you can find his track easily. So far all of the music I've used seems to be for content creators only.
So Jack Harper is the Illusive Man, aka Martin Sheen, whose son is Charlie Sheen, aka Charlie Harper... Now it ALL makes sense :D
Hahaha my thoughts exactly!
I stopped midway through reading this comment to pick up my jaw, that was around my belt buckle.
Damn, how did i take so long to understand?
Oh my gooooooood...
Not to mention on the show his brother's name was Allen and that sounds eerily similar to alien they were trying to tell us the whole time!
The Illusive Man was technically right: aliens did try to commit genocide against humans....and everything else in the form of the Reapers
That's what he was trying to do. Stir up xenophobia/hatred with enough of humanity, as opposed to more likely grumbling at most, in order to later point that towards the Reapers. Many of the Cerberus troops in ME3 were brainhacked refugees and such, but many were easily lured in with the increasingly public face of Cerberus, and these people were part of the effect of a political project of decades.
Malcolm Swoboda Well it certainly didn't work out for him or his organization
Adam Wigley It did work out for humanity though. Even with all its/his arguable or clear (however you see it) failures, the sequence of Cerberus events were apparently necessary for the defeat of the Reapers. And the writers have at least some opening for Cerberus as an ideology to continue.
But yes TIM by most accounts (except special theories) and Cerberus the terrorist organization are dead.
+Malcolm Swoboda It just seems like the galaxy would be more accepting of each other as they all fought together to push back the Reapers. I mean I guess humans could hate the few species that didn't help but I doubt it
Adam Wigley Much of the galaxy will be in greater acceptance but that: a)doesn't mean all of the galaxy, b)doesn't mean that everyone pushed back the Reapers and they didn't form that same sort of bond.
In all ME3 endings, there's still the opening for the writers to include post-war events that disrupted peace. Even Synthesis.
I actually quite liked the Illusive Man character, and I thought he was an effective villain mainly because I thought he raised some good points. What I didn't like about the Illusive Man was his treatment in the third game. I think he would have been far more effective if he simply *disagreed* with Shephard and did things his own way, rather than to be *gasp*Indoctrinated*gasp* all that time.
Throughout the games we're constantly told that they were the cutting edge of humanity's protection and 'advancement', but given that so much of our interaction was antagonistic, I think it's a shame that some of their successes wasn't so well highlighted. The original Normandy's construction is one, I think even Medi-gel itself was one of their things too (not sure, I know Sirta was creditted with it, but of course, you can't credit a secret organisation!) and of course, the *small* matter of Shephard's resurrection from the dead which was remarkably downplayed in and of itself.
I don't even see him.as villain before ME3
@@gennarosavastano9424 ikr neither
The Illusive Man is easily my favorite character in Mass Effect. He's the only one to call people out on their idealistic bullshit.
Too bad his own ideal was bullshit, when taken as far as he took it.
Not necessarily. While I disagree with the direction he took in ME3, you could argue that by committing terrible acts now we would eventually learn enough to save more people in the future. Example, if you are performing medical experiments on living people and you find a cure for cancer while doing so, in the future you will save millions of lives at the expense of a few test subjects. While it is completely immoral to do so, from a utilitarian perspective the logic is sound. The sad truth is that our world is a better place because of the immoral actions of people who came before us.
Are you justifying committing savage atrocities in the interest of the supposed greater good? There was never and there will never be a reality where the human race's immorality is its saving grace. I mean, we're talking about experimenting on human children, and other sentient races against their will. Most if not all of whom died painfully in the end. Nothing came of it, and even if something did, it is absolutely not worth it. In my opinion, the illusive man lost his soul in the process of "saving" the human race. It's why by the end of the ordeal he resembled nothing but a blood hungry villain. You just can't commit these atrocities and remain human. At some point, you're just a monster with the faintest hint of ideals. He crossed that line long ago.
I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying that I understand his logic.
Virtual Flood Fair enough.
Now I wonder what happened if Cerberus were not indoctrinated
They would have been a great asset
They can still be a great asset, if you go that way. Unless you believe strongly in the Indoctrination Theory, it can be considered that stuff like the Collector Base Reaper Brain and Cerberus' general research, etc, were large assets for the Crucible being able to Control the Reapers. They just never were direct (in ME3) and honest (in ME2) help as true allies.
What? Just remove the war assets youve recovered from Cerberus and check your real assets. Humanity won because Cerberus. Even though they were indoctrinated they did good researches and helped your case unintentionally.
I acknowledge Cerberus for only a few things.
1. They have badass equipment and awesome looking troops.
2. Humanity was unprepared for sudden access to the galactic stage, so a secret organization to help humanity progress seems logical in an entire galaxy of threats
3. They did actually make some improvements and advances to humanity
However, I couldn't agree with their methods as they did what all Supremacy groups do and dive into radicalism, losing their humanity in the process. There was nothing to keep them in check and their stance against aliens could only get in the way of true progress, achieved by bringing the talents of all species together and forging a different future, as we do with Shepard.
Do not be fooled by the false similes of the xenos, as the alien seeks to enslave, corrupt, kill Humanity.
@@imperialguardsman521 does the imperium approve of cerberus
@@nikotheophanis8795 I guess the Imperium does approve of Cerberus.
I freaking love Cerberus. thanks for the lore video!
There's a follow up lore video to this coming about the general reaper invasion. That video will cover the fall of Cerberus and other events taking place during Mass Effect 3.
In the first game, one of the missions leads to the destruction of Cerberus, according to the codex. Do you have any thoughts on their rebuilding, or whether they were even destroyed?
+Kritikalitee I'd have to guess that what gets destroyed in that game is simply a Cerberus cell. I don't think the writers had finished building Cerberus at that point.
very good video. I am looking forward to the follow up.
+Dalek Renegade I usually stick to theories I come up with myself.
+Minius GC I want to see a advanced review of the alliance
I waited till the end for you to say "But Illusive Man is.... illusive".
I am still waiting.
I couldn't go there . . . it was too much for me :)
Minius GC everything comes with practice. Eventually you will be able to include such highly sophisticated humour in your videos! /is slapped/
Cerberus is fucking amazing
I didnt know about a lot of this, the way Cerberus runs is very smart, I feel like the idea behind cerberus makes sense but as always it grows and it becomes more part of the problem than a solution, great video
Cerberus and ONI can be friends
I really wish that Cerberus would have remained intact in ME3. Instead of the Illusive man going nuts, here's what they could have done. Have him build some secret super weapon made from the Collector base tech to fight the reapers, so he makes humanity be the hero. But the weapon fails in some spectacular way, and then have him finally and begrudgingly join Shepherd in the fight with the rest of the Galaxy. It would have been a much better story arch then what we got. Heck,you could still have Shepherd fight Cerberus in some fashion before the Illusive man joins you.
I like this idea, but everyone with Desolas and the Arca Monolith means that TIM was probably well on his way to being Indoctrinated by the time Saren and the Heretic Geth attacked Eden Prime. Sure, him implanting himself with Collector Tech made him the Reapers' puppet, but they were in mind as he killing Pople Clement XVI and ordering live experiments on Human children.
That would have been good and if TIM was still alive at the end, he gets house arrest in a comfortable prison. Like in Star field what happened with the UC admiral who was a war criminal.
First time I've checked out one of these lore vids. Love your stuff, will definitely be watching the others. :)
Awesome!
I like that touch about Lazarus. It fits with Shepard being brought back to life.
Thanks! This is great stuff, really gives you a good feel for the organization.
really miss playing mass effect, wish they'd make it backwards compatible on ps4
Only ME1 is backwards compatible on the Xbox One. It's driving me crazy, I wish they would update the whole trilogy.
EA recently said it was probably going to happen.
It's coming now😈
Illusive man was a hero,
his broad vision for the preservation of humanity was much larger than his time...
Excited to see an upload. Can't wait to get off work and watch lol :D
thx minius for the info about the Cerberus the story is pretty intriguing when we get this deep into lore
Don't forget that cerberus also made an appearance in the multiplayer game...great info again Minius!!
I did all of the Cerberus related missions in ME1, did all of the companion missions and side quests in ME2, and given everything that they did in ME3 prior to going completely insane...fuck Cerberus. Seriously. I was glad when I found out that both Jacob and Miranda had left in ME3.
If XCOM was in the Mass Effect universe would they be just a state-funded version of Cerberus?
Had been waiting for that video!
You should continue these.
Learned a few new things from this, I have to get around to reading those novels....
Finally been waiting for this a long time!!!
I absolutely enjoyed the comic with TIM's origin story. It was a really great read and made me appreciate him as a villain all that more. This video greatly sums up everything really well. This makes me hope that there's a sort of faction option in Andromeda. A lot like Fallout 4 where you can play for several sides and then choose which one to support. I really didn't like being stuck as Alliance Loyal in Mass Effect, but I understand why that was the case. Shepard was a character. I had some options on what decisions he or she made, but Shepard always had a core character they did not stray from. Alliance Loyal was part of that.
More factional RP would be nice in MEA considering how they've described the Pathfinder/whatever so far.
I really love your videos and your voice is perfect for narrating these. Keep up the great work :)
Thanks! Will do.
Cerberus is an idea.
I'm definitely Cerberus guy. Loved working with Illusive Man and hate how they made him in ME3
Cerberus really makes me think of HYDRA =P Just about to read the novels for the first time, and can't wait to see their involvement in them!
WOAH.
So many connections!
love your vids, keep it going!
Nice one! If you could do a video on biotics/implants or omni-tool technology, that'd be great.
When and if Mass Effect 4 comes out, I’d love to see him return, with the Reapers destroyed, just to see how things would be different or if he would really be a big villain.
People Cerberus have hurt
Opposing human politicians
22 Salarian criminals
Asari Captives and a matriarch
Live Human Children
A bunch of quarians and almost an entire flotilla
Human Alliance Admirals
Turian Hiearchy figures
Memebers of the human system's alliance
The Human Pope
People Cerberus Has Helped
Batarian Pirates
You forgot reapers in the help section haha
Well during Overlord you're still with Cerberus, so technically you destroyed 300 k Batarians.
Reaper and Batarian pirate.... Batarian... The Aliens species that hate humans the most.... Congrats.
@@ladyselin35 i usually do that after the whole collector base mission so I already told TIM to blow me
Really like these, I like the event ones more
Cerberus had the right idea, and I think that if the Salarians can use the STG, Cerberus has a right to exist, seeing how both are Salarian and Human suvivalist groups. My problem with Cerberus is only with the experimentation of children, and the whole ME3 plot line regarding them, I personally think the ME3 Cerberus was just badly written, while the children one is just wrong. However, on the flip side Cerberus is the reason Humans have a somewhat relevant biotic population
It would be good to get an advanced review of all of the me ships
He's the equalivant of the Matrix Reloaded Merovingian
Interesting piece. I was kind of confused, however, by the lack of information given on the events of Mass effect 1. I'm mostly referring to Cerberus's interactions with Rear Admiral Kuhoku, Corporal Toombs at Akuze, Thorian creepers, and the rachni. Were they not important to the Cerberus story?
You'll notice that I don't get into many specifics on their actions in any of the games. These lore videos are mostly about background information or things you don't necessarily get while playing the Mass Effect series.
Though I would argue that in the grand scheme of the Cerberus organization their actions in the original Mass Effect aren't significant when compared to the majority of the stuff I cover in this video.
Perhaps I'm too concerned with what I call 'flow' in these videos. I don't like to get on tangents.
For what I heard from ME3 each cycle had it's own Illusive man and cerberus (splinter group) I still feel Cerberus/Illusive man would have respect for the galactic empire
love your videos
Just a random thought, what if aliens with very long lifespans on their way to Andromeda don't go into stasis. That asari in the latest trailer may have been part of a crew who looks after the arc. I mean, this all hinges on how much teamwork there is.
There's a chance of that.
Minius GC It would make the trip a bit safer.
THERE'S A MASS EFFECT ANIME!!!?!!!?!!!
Oooooo I'm so excited!!!!
i might buy a mass effect comic book in the future, any suggestion where to begin ?
I'm still going to make a video on the extended universe that might better answer your question. I really liked the foundation comics but I'm not sure if that's the right starting point.
So what I'm getting from this is that the child-experimentation on the Pragia Facility to be the only disagreeable factor. Even that is up for debate whether or not TIM directed it.
If not for the Reapers, Cerberus might have developed a treatment for Genophage. Obviously for human advancement.
Cerberus is an idea...illusive man said that
I LOVE THIS VIDEO!!!
Great stuff!!!
great video great detail
hay Minius GC is it ok if I could suggest talking about the collectors since like the protheans they played a key role in the mass effect lore mainly in mass effect 2. its just a suggestion. like the lore vid so far
They're definitely worth getting to at some point.
I always wondered if Cora is connected to TIM in any way.
Also a lot of people don't realize that Dr. Eva Core in ME:3 is named after his friend from the comic Evolution. His other friend Ben from the same comic has a Cerberus facility named after him "Hislop". You might have added that when Jack Harper (Illusive Man) came into contact with the Arca Monolith from the comic he became partially indoctrinated, and that how he got his blue eyes as seen in ME:2, and ME:3.
I'll be getting into the origins of his indoctrination in the Reaper War lore video - which will cover the fall of Cerberus.
I figured. You do really well on your videos. Just brought it up; because I recently read a post of how some of the people who believe in the indoctrination theory of Shepard compare their eyes. Most forget that Shepard has cybernetic implants from when Cerberus rebuilt him/her. Giving their character that cool eye, and facial scarring if they mostly go renegade with their play through.
Yea I had the possibility of that reaper artifact indoctrinating both the Illusive Man and Saren in early drafts for those lore videos but I didn't like the way it fit with the flow of those videos. I'm too concerned with how my videos flow, lol.
Not sure how that would have worked considering in the novel Revelations it was at the end when he found Sovereign. Which was some time after the comic, and he was a Specter by then. He did hate humanity by the end of the comic, but wanted them all dead after those events because of what happened to his brother. Hence his quote at the end of Evolution. "I will mourn for you --" and avenge you. Right after he called in an orbital strike on the temple.
That's pretty much my issue with that. The indoctrination from that device doesn't seem to fit perfictly. But there's no denying that something happened to both Saren and the Illusive Man.
wow watching this video made me want to go and play mass effect 2 again for the tenth time lol
So Cerberus is what Ukip aspired to be.
Weren't they an alliance black ops in the beginning? Or was that just in Shanxi?
I think the writers changed that. At least that's the assumption I made this video under. Someday I'd like to sit down with some Mass Effect writers and go over their entire creative process. I think that would be fascinating.
Me1 remaster should be focused on making colonies look like actual colonies
not 3 buildings on a planet
maybe make the cerb missions similar to the Leviathan DLC
Over to you Mr Shadow Broker...
Can you do a lore on the shadow broker?
Best faction! Illusive man did nothing wrong.. I hope they're part of the survival mission to Andromeda. Would be *awesome*. Maybe to stop the other species fleeing?
I liked Cerberus as an enemy faction but you are gravely outnumbered. It may be best to take this comment down before this gets worse.
it is the best faction and I love ceberus, but the illusive man has done plenty wrong lol, then again he did bring shepard back to life I guess.
Well a good game wouldn't be good without a great villain. I liked how multi-faceted they were. I mean, no faction was really 100% good, Cerberus certainly weren't nice guys, but they were very idealistic and inspiring (before the Reapers got involved). You can respect someone even if you disagree with them.
If they come back (which many, many will hate, but some will like and some will at least accept), I don't anticipate their previous organization (which itself shifted in the narrative, though not so much in the plot itself) to be what they are. Instead they could be followers that appreciate the ideals of the Illusive Man, and act in still problematic ways, though perhaps not - at least mostly - as problematic as in the trilogy. And for all we know, they could change name, symbols, structure. I sure as hell don't want to see Major Enemy Unit Faction Cerberus ever again, but it would not be something I oppose if there's more story to be told, even if it takes a relative backseat to the wonders of the Helius Cluster.
One of the biggest pluses of Cerberus, in my opinion, was that Illusive Man was one of the few who was aware of the Reaper threat and he likely did about the best he could do, while being in the state of being partially Reaper augmented. Sure people/characters can just brand him as only evil, and their perspective would have great validity, but there's a lot of context behind his mind and actions. Antagonist for sure, but what he stood for before the Reapers was understandable, what he stood for after the Reapers was sympathetic, and what happened to him would happen to anyone, including Shepard (and Bioware may even be completely aware of that, looking at ME3 concept are of a highly Reaper augmented Shepard that fueled Indoc Theory).
I, for one, like the IDEA of Cerberus. What I don't agree with are some of their actions. I hope with andromeda, since the whole theme is about the races trying to colonize planets, that Cerberus sees a kind of rebirth. Hopefully as an acting force for human colonization, just without the craziness.
Cerberus was fine by me until they started countering Reaper War, but even then they had a good point, using the enemies tactics and techs against them is the smart thing to do, in Zulu War, the British suffered many losses for that, and USA backed a lot of fleeing European scientists, many from Nazi Germany, one gave a big help to the Space Run against the soviets! But they forgot one thing: They're Reapers, and they indoctrinate if not taken necessary precautions!
I've actually tried to follow the timeline of the series and its side media, and I think its quite possible that Cerberus would have taken every necessary precaution (save for simply destroying all pieces of Reaper tech they see), if it wasn't for Shepard and others (but especially Shepard) interfering with Cerberus plans and further layers and adjusted plans, to the point that they/TIM becomes so desperate (but arrogant still) by the end as to rush-mindhack troops and even implant TIM further. They seemed to have solid enough plans the earlier you consider things, but it always carried too much risk anyway, so we root for Shepard who at least for the most part recognizes that in this battle of galactic extinction, you can't just play around with trying to exploit the gigantic murdering megagod machines.
in mass effect 3 if you made peace or kill the geth.
now the quarians have there planet back you think the quarian flotilla stops to exist or there stil a small flotilla left?
and how you think there building style would look like.
not going to see it in andromeda but interestng to think about.
The remnants of Cerberus need to be folded back into the HSA especially their research and development operations, technology as well. The next ME game should highlight the HSA rebuilding and rearming, including recolonization and expansion. The HSA should break away from those laws that make them weak militarily
also side note . I thought pluto was the relay just encased in ice
Pluto's moon Charon is the relay covered in ice.
Ah ok , thanks for clearing it up
Mass Effect borrows heavily from thr Uplift Universe. In it Cerberus is a space station which contains a code that calls the Uplift Universe's equivalent of the Reapers. All in all, Mass Effect us a less dark version of the UU.
If "Cerberus is the Illusive Man" then hopefully that means all or 99% of them will stay out of Andromeda.
very nice!
why did ME2 have that orange ambient color while ME3 has Blueish?
Cerberus is also responsible for human biotics.
there's a mass effect anime?
Haha, yup!
www.imdb.com/title/tt2140141/?ref_=nv_sr_1
Well done. I think the Illusive man was indoctrinated from the comics, however. That alien artifact? It's implied to be reaper tech, and he does take a jolt from it.
It is explained that husks have specific Reaper controllers (though it gets more complicated than that, given the inner workings of a Reaper, how it networks with other Reapers, and is apparently guided by the Catalyst which is guided by the collective Reaper knowledge in turn). We do not know what Reaper controlled the artifact that affected Harper. It could have been Harbinger. It could have been Sovereign. It could have been another one waiting in Dark Space. It could have been the Derelict Reaper and therefore have no 'direction' except general 'Reaperness'. It could have been none, and simply infused Harper with technology the Reapers could later subtly exploit when they arrived. His indoctrination is not very deeply described, so it is up to us to believe what we will - was he only controlled in the very general sense until the end, or were the Reapers always manipulating him carefully? Was he largely free willed, or was he always a mind slave that didn't realize? In any case, as soon as he was jolted, he bought at least slightly into the Reaper way of existence, and that only grew.
Didn't Cerberus start as an Alliance black op that went rogue?
The writers appear to have changed that as the series moved to Mass Effect 2.
+Minius GC Ahh yes. As much as I love 2 and 3, the disdain and contempt in which the writers of 2 and 3 seemed to have had for the first was very disappointing and disheartening. Why retcon, ignore or contradict the one that created the foundation? Cerberus' size in 3 is ridiculous. I'm glad Andromeda seems to be using the first as the main inspiration.
ghettowill2002 Andromeda is a shit sjw game with garbage squad roster less memorable than a pile of shit
1:05 *me who didn’t know about the anime*:
THE
F CKING
WHAT
U should do the Anhur Rebellion
I had to look that up (there are so many tiny stories on planetary descriptions). I don't think there's any other info than the two paragraphs though. Would make a neat video if we knew more.
wasn't Cerberus apart of the Alliance as a secret black ops organization also?
A lot of people have brought that up. I believe the writers changed the lore in-between ME1 and ME2.
Minius GC yeah I remember saving a guy from a Cerberus experiment in Mass Effect 1 and remember hearing that Cerberus was a part of the Alliance as a secret black ops organization that was super low on the poll.
+antoine browne
While the actual explanation might be that the writers changed some stuff, I like to believe that, like the video says, no one in Cerberus truly knows what's going on in their organization, they only what they are allowed to believe, as the Illusive Man holds all the cards.
I really hated that they were turned into cartoonish villains in ME3. They could've still been an antagonist faction with there own agenda but they could've been like the renegade way of gathering resources. And perhaps they have there own missions and decisions that be helpful or an detriment to the other alien races. Then the player has to make the difficult choices or eithering helping them out, or ignoring them, or balancing the two sides. What bioware did instead was disappointing.
nice video
Cerberus sounds like Terra Nova from Star Trek.
Hey Minius, still think you should do a video on the Illusive Man's motives throughout ME3 and when he finally became indoctrinated. So many people seem to have missed the videos in the game which explain his plans and when he became indoctrinated (and having missed this in-game content, they conclude that he must have been indoctrinated during the First Contact War after his brief contact with the artifact, as shown in the comics). See here for example and keep up the good work :) : www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/4yn7a7/do_you_ever_catch_yourself_thinking_about_plot/
Interestingly enough, that's a huge part of the next lore video I've got scheduled :)
Look forward to it!
Humanity first xenos last ✊
i like Cerberus
Wait so...The illusive man is Ashley Williams' Farther?
Ashley William's Grandfather was his commanding officer.
Ah okay, I think I get it...
They aren't that wrong, the alien races are not like ethnicity on earth. On earth were all human and we have similar cultures but the aliens are extremely hard to relate too. Many of the aliens are dangerous it's not survival of nation or culture but of the species. Now many of the things they did were wrong. However, with that said in a situation like mass effect, Cerberus was necessary. Every terrible thing they did helped humanity in the end. Sometimes terrible horrible things benefit us down the line it just takes time to renounce those actions while not losing the benefits so those who were murdered, tortured and taken advantage of don't do so in vain.
Jack Harper isnt coras last name also harper hmmmm?
Weird seeing so many people defending Cerberus in the comments.. Did they even watch the video?.. Or play any of the games?..
Declan Wood they are just dumb cunts
some are part trolls, however more importantly, though Cerberus is a fictional organization, the ideology, fear and ignorance reflect the sentiment by many people in the real world.
we only need to look at our human history to see this.
Zyzz Brah fuck fucking take it easy dude, it's just a video game
Do you think Cerberus will make some kind of appearance in Andromeda?
It doesn't look like they will, but a faction with Cerberus sympathies could easily show up.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply! I hope they do, they are prominent in the lore. Thanks again to replying! :)
Hopefully I'll be able to keep up with questions. I have a feeling sometime very soon almost none of my replies will be quick :/
I didn't even know about all that criminal activity Cerberus did (apart from that one ME1 mission). The second game makes a huge deal out of it and yet we never saw much of them prior; How did you acquire all that info? Was it already to be found in ME1's codex or other side missions?
In ME1 the Cerberus story is small and even totally optional, but both with ME1 theorizing at the time and ME2+ confirmation/retcons, a great deal more of ME1's world is Cerberus influenced than the core ME1 plot states. Cerberus does not seem to be directly involved with the deal with Sovereign and Saren, but they may have been keeping track of some of it and S+S may have been vice versa. Then with the fall of Sovereign and Saren and then Shepard, the Illusive Man gives the go ahead for Cerberus to take a more active and overt position in the galaxy and try to use Shepard as at least a disposable (but expensive) tool, and at most eventually their potential figurehead against the Reapers (imo it is implied).
Alright, thank you!
Check the Shadow Broker's files in Mass Effect 2.
Makes sense the Shadow Broker has some dirt on them. Thanks for the info!
+Rhidor No problem :)
I see comments in an 10 minutes video when its been out 8 minutes
Commenting quick is important! :)
the only bad thing about Cerberus is that the ends justify the means even sacrificing other humans.
apart from that, in totally in with Cerberus and Terra Firma.
You do realise, that if everyone followed their ideology the galaxy would be utterly destroyed, starting with humans?
Do think we'll see Cerberus in andromeda?
If we do, it most likely won't be in the form we've seen, nor to the emphasis in plot that we've seen.
I'll be touching on this in my next video :)
+Minius GC Okay, apparently not the next video but I'll be touching on this soon. +Malcolm Swoboda is right though - if Cerberus is in the game the organization will be different.
in andromeda we are Cerbereus ! In the trailer the main character kisses the daughter of the illusive man ! Sorry about the spoilers
Bout to get political. Cerberus could reflect current orgs and parties. Well intended, but led by madmen...or women who's main goals are suppression and supremacy.
But they GET STUFF DONE! WALL IS 10 FEET HIGHER! ITS ALWAYS A MATTER OF RESOURCES!
@@SwobyJ #MakeCerberusGreatAgain
what I want to know is how dose Cerberus have this amount of money like it's almost unlimited.
They have somehow infiltrated many-to-most major corporations of the Alliance, and have more subtle sway over other galactic economies. Cerberus considers itself 'humanity' because it has had a major role in the advancement of human interests (though one may argue what in particular those are) for decades. Another idea is that The Illusive Man has been augmented with his Reaper technology to have an 'improved' state that is able to keep better track of the pace of civilizations, and therefore it gives him a boost in ability to determine smarter choices for human - and Cerberus - power.
Mass Effect has an anime?
lol, yup
a movie about james
mass effect had an anime??
Septian Tri Pangestu Paragon Lost, it's a heartbreaking backstory to James Vega
Not sure if this was asked a lot, but may someone please tell me the name of the song in the background?
The music is a track called Robots Make Robots by Serhii Kot, who also goes by SoundWizard. ( soundwizard.info )
I don't know if you can find his track easily. So far all of the music I've used seems to be for content creators only.
The choice back in ME2 to construct a Reaper. Morally wrong and can easily backfire.
the halo charachter master chief is a product of the universe created by the ellusive man or woman!
Good Fucking Video