Very good video. I’m surprised there was no mention of making absolutely certain the rope never goes behind the lead climbers leg. I consider those resultant flip-upside down falls to be the most dangerous and probably the most likely cause of a serious injury inside. And instant fail in any lead climb test I’ve ever taken.
@@FightingGravity2071 no... but if you watch whipper media on instagram you'll see a lot of falls where people get their foot caught between the rock and the rope which causes them to flip upside down.
@@summitseekersexperience one other thing that maybe beginer climbers should learn is to tie a knot at the other end of the rope, to avoid accidents on long routes. Sadly those accidents are very common. While lowering a climber and the belayer runs out of rope. Mostly they are not fatal accidents but I've hear of people sustaining serious injuries.
It is a great video. For the grigri, I personally think the introduction of a finger to stop the cam is not the way to do it. It is specifically designed for smooth rope which means you can feed easily if you feed rope with your break strand while you pull it with your other hand, this should work well without needing to introduce a block (your finger) on the cam which can cause issues if a fall were to happen at this same moment. Just my two cents
Feeding fast slack with your finger blocking the cam is in the Petzl manual. It's safe. You can feed slack faster this way. You just need to make sure you are holding the brake strand at the same time. As long as you are holding the brake, it doesn't matter if your finger is on the cam, the cam is stronger than you. It is only a problem if you don't hold the brake strand, that is the important safety issue.
Nice video 👍🏻 I’m from Germany so we have different standards here but here are some things I noticed that a German climbing teacher would criticize. Don’t spot with your fingers spread out or arms too straight. Here, spotting is pretty uncommon, only for bouldering or very hard first moves. Tie a knot in the end of the rope or use a rope bag that has a little loop to tie the rope in. Don’t belay bare foot. Don’t use flip flops. In case you hit the wall, you might loose the shoes and hurt your feet. This just happened a few weeks ago in my gym. Guy unfortunately hit an edge and broke his toe. We have to stand about 1m back and 1m to the side to prevent hitting each other.
Another thing i noticed from other vids that wasnt the case in my gym in germany: That you need to onsight a certain grade to pass the test. In our german alpine club gym we only have like 3 top rope lines and all the other routes are lead. So you wouldnt even be able to pass that requirement with top rope alone. And in our DAV gym i struggle to onsight UIAA 6, in another gym i can onsight UIAA 7- really well. I dont know if my gym sets really hard or if the other one sets really soft
I’m from Australia and recently did my lead test in various gyms around Canada and the US. Standards are definitely different so I would recommend asking in advance what each gym allow/don’t allow before taking your test.
I've watched many of your vids but wanted to thank you especially for this one as I just passed my lead climbing test the other day. All the information in this video in addition to practicing with mock lead climbing/belaying helped me pass. I appreciate what you're doing!
Good point... Our gym doesn't require that on their exam but they really should. I think they assume the rope is always sufficiently long enough. I've never seen an accident in our gym that says otherwise but doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
@@cornebrouwer I'd teach beginners to tie a stopper but there is a difference of opinions on this point (among countries/climbers). A well-tied and buddy-checked primary knot is the critical item.
Regarding lead belay with a gri-gri, I would definitely recommend watching (and linking to) the Petzl video on belaying. They emphasize handling the gri-gri like a regular ATC as much as possible and using limited movement of the belayer to take in and feed slack. Using the thumb to hold the cam is a last resort and for good reason. The back three fingers are barely hanging on to the rope and the hold on the gri-gri is tenuous and potentially unstable. Good first draft on the video but I would revisit a few aspects of it again.
I'd love to live in a world where the grigri would feed all sizes of ropes at any speed without catching. But we don't live in that world. I think it's easy to say "you should rarely hold down the cam on the grigri" when you're commenting on a youtube video. But in reality you need to hold down the cam to feed rope for almost every clip. If the climber pulls rope harder than you expect, it will catch if you don't hold it down - unless you're in the habit of leaving out more than enough slack for them to clip (which I think is too much slack). Especially if it's high-level climbing/going for a difficult redpoint, giving rope quickly is critical to saving the climber's energy, you should be holding down the cam. I do think you should be extra vigilant when holding the cam down though - if the climber goes from clipping to falling you should be ready to grab the rope harder.
I would argue that if you have never found the need to hold the cam, you just haven't belayed above a certain level of climber. There is a reason everyone does it. It's in the Petzl manual, so it is manufacturer endorsed.
@@geometerfpv2804 Clearly you have no idea who I have belayed or on what but yeah, I have belayed many folks on 5.13 and .14 routes. It's not that hard to belay well without holding the cam open.
I learned sport climbing on the rock and lead climbed for years. Recently went to join a gym and the checkoff was not only super redundant it was almost rigid and offensive.
Please remember in a gym there is considerable liability in case of an accident. So many injury cases end up in court. Besides the assurance of safety a court case will usually involve a check list of safety standards. The over redundancy is a result of such litigation. Please don’t be offended by this. I think your outdoor experience is something very positive you bring to a gym. I certainly appreciate what people like yourself share with me. But I also have sat on a jury in a personal injury case and that outcome was determined by how well the defendants were able to show they were adhering to that checklist of standard practices.
That looks a lot like Stone Summit Kennesaw. I'd be careful about putting your finger through the gate when clipping. One google of degloving (you really shouldn't look it up) scared me plenty. SSK was one of the best gyms I've climbed in!
Just take an in person class if it is at all available to you. Don't try to take a short cut and get away with just watching a video. Somebody's life is in your hands when you belay, and simply watching a video does not give you the muscle memory needed for each individual step you need to take each time someone starts up the wall. Be responsible, not lazy.
Thank you for the comment. The skill in climbing isn’t getting up the wall it’s getting up and down safely. A belay card doesn’t assure you understand the dangers. You need personal instruction to correct your mistakes. These videos are helpful to emphasize points but we all need instruction.
Great video... A few thoughts. I teach for folks to use the "on belay belay on, climbing climb on" commands after checking (as you demonstrated) so there is a verbal command exchanged. I stress, that... While they aren't actually ON BELAY because they haven't clipped anything, at least keeping the verbal commands help signal intent to each other. When they clip their first piece then I teach the belayer to say: Ok, you are now actually on belay! We also teach "Clipping, Clipped" to newer leaders and belayers to signal what's going on. I realize this isn't as important, but it can be handy if you are sketching on a clip and the belayer can't quite make if you've cliped or not. Again, love your videos, I'll probably use this as a primer for folks who want to get into lead climbing. :) (oh, and I know that first clip is super silly low, but we teach to never skip a clip)
I had a friend that would say "I never found a clip I didn't like". Yeah, anything that promotes more communication is probably good. I do think it's important for it to mean something. Sometimes people say "on belay" and they really mean "okay i'm ready" and they don't know what on belay even means. Decently inconsequential in single pitch... but multi, can have big implications.
Gotta say I've always found the "on belay belay on, climbing climb on" to be quite silly. I can't imagine how saying the magical words is safer than "you good?" "yup" and having a habit of glancing at the climber's knot and the belayer's device. I especially don't see the benefit of having two separate things being said... I'll know that you're climbing because my eyes are open and I can see you climbing.
15:50 when taking your belay test, don't skip the first clip like this. Most gyms will fail you for doing this (or skipping clips higher up), or will take your lead card and force you to retest again. Is it annoying? Yes, as are most of the other "gym specific rules" (e.g. having to do the two-handed slack-taking motion, because the regular technique of just sliding your brake hand up is insufficient according to the actuaries who work at the insurance companies that provide policies to climbing gyms). I used to be pretty upset about these rules in the gym, but the thing is that there are a TON of people with pretty questionable abilities / instincts in the gym, and those people are needed to help the gym stay in business. Although a good belayer doesn't need to do the "two-handed liability shuffle" for taking up slack (which is worse in many ways, especially with an autoblocking device), making everyone do that is the only way this can work (kinda like speed limits; just because you can drive +10 over the speed limit doesn't mean everyone is able to, skill-wise).
Most gyms are fine with it if you vocalize beforehand what you're doing and why during the test. Under 10ft is a general rule for a clip, some very low clips aren't the greatest especially for jumping soft falls on taller walls with a lighter belayer because the autoblocking devices can hit into the quickdraw. Good advice though Sam!
@@setadoon it may vary based on the part of the country one is in. Where I'm at right now, someone got seriously injured by forgetting to clip into an autobelay and basically did the "highest-ball bouldering problem", and then sued the gym -_- I think all gyms in the area became extra strict after that One gear recommendation to avoid getting yanked around by weight difference: Edelrid Ohm. It's pretty pricey, but it can really help if there is a >20 lb weight diff between climber and belayer
@@summitseekersexperience If the goal is for viewers to be safe and pass their lead test, I agree with clipping each bolt, since: (1) it's safer, and (2) testing practices vary from gym to gym. More on 1: no clipping means climber falling decks with full acceleration; even a heavier climber will likely be slowed if clipped. Your videos are great and many beginners watch and rely on them. They may not read the comments. Please consider a v2 of this video for the sake of beginners so they can learn best practices (e.g. don't take eyes off climber, don't belay barefoot, don't skip clips, avoid leg behind rope, tie stopper knot, and arguably paying out slack on GriGri same as tube device except when clipping (per multiple Petzl videos). Thanks for considering.
@@baboothewonderspam for sure. I'll probably remake this one at some point, plus it's like my highest viewed video so having a second version may be good for the channel.
I was pretty surprised by this gym liability safety model in the US and Canada on a recent trip. I went to a gym on a bad weather day, and was disappointed to find that most of the routes were top rope only, and you had to pay extra to do the lead test. In Switzerland, climbers are responsible for their own safety. Gyms usually only have 3-4 top rope routes, and the rest are lead. Beginner courses are offered and recommended, but there are no belay or lead tests required when climbing at a new gym. In my opinion, this creates a climbing culture where people are more aware of the risks and take more personal responsibility for their own safety. I got the impression that the North American approach makes the sport accessible to more people, but results in a greater number of less responsible climbers. Any thoughts?
At least in Madrid/Spain, in most of the new gyms, per my experience: Around third/half the routes have top rope with an auto belay system (never the ones with big drops or ceilings that would convert you into a huge pendulum). You can lead on ALL routes. If it's an auto belay route, you just let go the auto belay, so it retracts completely, you do the route, and once you finish you clip yourself to it and bring it down again. If it's your first time leading/belaying in that gym, you can call an instructor and he/she'll supervise you setting up the equipment and doing a simple route (this is free). If everything goes fine, they'll give you a tag to hang in your harness and you're good to go.
@ZaiLafone well, firstly, you have to understand in the US you can sue anybody for anything so people are very scared of liability issues in any business, climbing included. So that results in some differences here which you also see highlighted in healthcare, FDA, etc. So gyms have managed this by providing some checks with belay test, lead tests, waivers, etc. In regards to people being responsible for their own safety here, despite the gyms layers of liability protection, I would say most people still assume responsibility for themselves here, they understand the risks of climbing and what they're signing up for. I know my peers wouldn't file suit on a gym unless it was the gym's equipment that failed and resulted in injury (Like a top rope anchor failing). Do you live in Switzerland? Let's switch houses for a while ;-)
@@summitseekersexperience Thanks for the response! Great to hear that a responsible climbing culture persists despite existing within a culture more geared toward business liability. I do live in Switzerland, and I highly recommend checking out the climbing here if you ever get a chance. There’s more than enough for multiple lifetimes 😄.
I moved from N.America to Germany and was kind of shocked by the lack of a belay test at the gym. On the other hand, once I got used to it, I love that most climbing is lead and not top rope. But I have occasionally seen some incredibly unsafe stuff at the German gym, like someone trying to coach a beginner partner through lead belaying without a third person , and also teaching them a lot of sloppy technique
I live in Switzerland and the belaying I see in the gyms is, frankly, atrocious. I know the US has a silly lawsuit culture, but the gyms should do a bit more to prevent people from injuring themselves. I see at least 50% of belayers putting the rope between the climbers legs when they're low to the ground, so that if the climber fell on the first two clips they would have a rather painful experience. Probably another 50% (often the same people) stand >3m from the wall with way too much slack. Once I saw two beginners in the lead gym who thought they could just guess how to belay. They came to the conclusion that the belayer should death grip the grigri, and it should be the climber's job to pull the rope through grigri. Then they both panicked when the friction was too high and the climber was no longer physically capable of accomplishing this. I think gym's safety standards should be at least high enough to prevent these people from getting on the wall. Of course, most of these people exclusively climb things that they are very unlikely to fall on, which is why they rarely experience the consequences of the bad technique.
Rope length from mid chest not shoulder gets you that extra tail. Also he did it but didn't mention, the loop of rope from your harness to the knot wants to be on the smaller side. You pull that smaller before you follow through the figure 8.
Love your videos. They are my new go to when suggesting videos to climbers. I have a very minor improvement, when clipping an opposing biner using the middle finger, teach using only the tip of your finger.
Nice video, very good explanations in a shorts time. Only thing (but quite important) that was strange to me: as a belayer, you ought to have your eyes on your climber all the time of the climb, even if you are recording a training video (or even more, when doing so)
It is good to pay attention especially when they are low to the ground. But, sometimes there's no way to see them because of an overhang, or you don't want your neck in pain from looking up all day.
Weird seeing these differences in standard. You would have failed the test in the first two minutes here in Norway. You forgot the stopper knot, and WAAAY to short of a tail on tha figure 8.
Great video overall but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT USE A GRIGRI AS SHOWN IN THIS VIDEO! Belay like you're using a regular ATC The method shown in this video is not the proper method and can lead to the rope slipping. Always read the manuals of your devices, especially when your partners life is quite literally in your hands.
You could watch this video 10 times and still drop your partner on the test etc if you haven’t practiced the skills required to lead belay safely. Find somebody who knows what they’re doing and learn with them.
@@summitseekersexperience so many bad belayers. I saw a guy in my gym climb almost to the anchors with his girlfriend holding the rope - no belay device. People seem to think there’s no risk if you’re climbing indoors.
This was really helpful; thank you! I passed my lead tests. Of course, I also practiced quite a bit on the ground with friends and a back-up belayer, but this helped reinforce things that were difficult to remember after one single class.
I’m not convinced about this spotting with the rope on your thumbs. There is a high change of injury/breaking those thumbs when the climber falls. The rope is on your harness, you’ll find it blindly. No rope in your hands/on your thumbs, it’s a false sense of security
I’ve seen a lot of people holding the rope this way before the first clip, it’s very strange to me. No-one I’ve asked has given me a good answer as to why they’re doing it.
@@summitseekersexperience Corne is talking about having your thumbs splayed out instead of together against the rest of your fingers, the rope is not necessarily the problem.
@@gabrieltwinwithulm7466 got you. Could be an issue. Could definitely make the case to change the technique. I have never had an issue but doesn't mean something couldn't happen.
@2:50, about that tail and the overhand backup knot. People need to realize not to make the tail too long. About a month after I passed my lead test at CRG Hadley, I made a tail too long, backed it up, and about halfway up a route, I discovered I had mistakenly clipped the loop from the backup, as opposed to the actual lead portion. Used up all my endurance getting THAT UN-effed.
Well, fun fact in Poland you literary don't need anything to climb, be it rock, or mountain climbing. There is no certification at all, any idiot can climb up and fall to its death. Who need course, when you have youtube? How hard can it be...
One thing I wonder about is when spotting the climber before the first clip, why would you want to have any rope in the way of a potential fall? To me , it seems like a possible hazard.
In lead climbing and climbing from the ground (without clipping 1st bolt), would you call on belay (before "climbing")? Is it necessary or good practice?
technically you are not on belay before you clip. Normally as the belayer, I will call "on belay" after my climber has clipped their first bolt and I have the rope tightened to where if they fall I will catch them.
I’ve been lead trad climbing outside for about half a year yet I’ve failed my gym’s lead test twice hahaha. Thanks for the video so I can pass these corporate climbing tests.
I'd recommend using a grigri in call cases but an atc you would do all the same steps except modify the belay technique for the atc or whatever belay device
If your chalk bag is attached on a utility cord around your waist, than you could get hurt if it catches something on the wall during your fall. Gri-gri is really bad for newbies, it's complicated, and they learn the wrong movements. ATC is much better.
Very good video. I’m surprised there was no mention of making absolutely certain the rope never goes behind the lead climbers leg. I consider those resultant flip-upside down falls to be the most dangerous and probably the most likely cause of a serious injury inside. And instant fail in any lead climb test I’ve ever taken.
Yeah, I should have included that, thanks for highlighting. I'll pin this comment.
@@summitseekersexperience Do you have a video detailing this caution? Im not sure I understand.
@@FightingGravity2071 no... but if you watch whipper media on instagram you'll see a lot of falls where people get their foot caught between the rock and the rope which causes them to flip upside down.
@@summitseekersexperience thanks so much!
@@summitseekersexperience one other thing that maybe beginer climbers should learn is to tie a knot at the other end of the rope, to avoid accidents on long routes. Sadly those accidents are very common. While lowering a climber and the belayer runs out of rope. Mostly they are not fatal accidents but I've hear of people sustaining serious injuries.
It is a great video. For the grigri, I personally think the introduction of a finger to stop the cam is not the way to do it. It is specifically designed for smooth rope which means you can feed easily if you feed rope with your break strand while you pull it with your other hand, this should work well without needing to introduce a block (your finger) on the cam which can cause issues if a fall were to happen at this same moment. Just my two cents
Feeding fast slack with your finger blocking the cam is in the Petzl manual. It's safe. You can feed slack faster this way. You just need to make sure you are holding the brake strand at the same time. As long as you are holding the brake, it doesn't matter if your finger is on the cam, the cam is stronger than you. It is only a problem if you don't hold the brake strand, that is the important safety issue.
Nice video 👍🏻 I’m from Germany so we have different standards here but here are some things I noticed that a German climbing teacher would criticize. Don’t spot with your fingers spread out or arms too straight. Here, spotting is pretty uncommon, only for bouldering or very hard first moves. Tie a knot in the end of the rope or use a rope bag that has a little loop to tie the rope in. Don’t belay bare foot. Don’t use flip flops. In case you hit the wall, you might loose the shoes and hurt your feet. This just happened a few weeks ago in my gym. Guy unfortunately hit an edge and broke his toe. We have to stand about 1m back and 1m to the side to prevent hitting each other.
All good critiques, thanks for sharing. I agree with all these items.
Same here in Poland, thanks for pointing this out.
And no fingers going through the gate while clipping!
Another thing i noticed from other vids that wasnt the case in my gym in germany: That you need to onsight a certain grade to pass the test. In our german alpine club gym we only have like 3 top rope lines and all the other routes are lead. So you wouldnt even be able to pass that requirement with top rope alone. And in our DAV gym i struggle to onsight UIAA 6, in another gym i can onsight UIAA 7- really well. I dont know if my gym sets really hard or if the other one sets really soft
I’m from Australia and recently did my lead test in various gyms around Canada and the US. Standards are definitely different so I would recommend asking in advance what each gym allow/don’t allow before taking your test.
Good point. There's definitely some variability.
I've watched many of your vids but wanted to thank you especially for this one as I just passed my lead climbing test the other day. All the information in this video in addition to practicing with mock lead climbing/belaying helped me pass. I appreciate what you're doing!
No stopper on end of rope???
Good point... Our gym doesn't require that on their exam but they really should. I think they assume the rope is always sufficiently long enough. I've never seen an accident in our gym that says otherwise but doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
@@summitseekersexperience I agree that they should, assuming can cause accidents!
@@lane.b22 I'll bring this up to them next time I'm there, this is a good point.
There must be a knot in the end, especially from a teaching/learning standpoint. It’s just a mistake not to teach beginners to put in a knot!
@@cornebrouwer I'd teach beginners to tie a stopper but there is a difference of opinions on this point (among countries/climbers). A well-tied and buddy-checked primary knot is the critical item.
Great video thank you so much
Regarding lead belay with a gri-gri, I would definitely recommend watching (and linking to) the Petzl video on belaying. They emphasize handling the gri-gri like a regular ATC as much as possible and using limited movement of the belayer to take in and feed slack. Using the thumb to hold the cam is a last resort and for good reason. The back three fingers are barely hanging on to the rope and the hold on the gri-gri is tenuous and potentially unstable. Good first draft on the video but I would revisit a few aspects of it again.
Well said, I agree.
I'd love to live in a world where the grigri would feed all sizes of ropes at any speed without catching. But we don't live in that world. I think it's easy to say "you should rarely hold down the cam on the grigri" when you're commenting on a youtube video. But in reality you need to hold down the cam to feed rope for almost every clip. If the climber pulls rope harder than you expect, it will catch if you don't hold it down - unless you're in the habit of leaving out more than enough slack for them to clip (which I think is too much slack). Especially if it's high-level climbing/going for a difficult redpoint, giving rope quickly is critical to saving the climber's energy, you should be holding down the cam. I do think you should be extra vigilant when holding the cam down though - if the climber goes from clipping to falling you should be ready to grab the rope harder.
I would argue that if you have never found the need to hold the cam, you just haven't belayed above a certain level of climber. There is a reason everyone does it. It's in the Petzl manual, so it is manufacturer endorsed.
@@geometerfpv2804 Clearly you have no idea who I have belayed or on what but yeah, I have belayed many folks on 5.13 and .14 routes. It's not that hard to belay well without holding the cam open.
4:19 Be careful about pushing your finger through the gate when clipping.
I learned sport climbing on the rock and lead climbed for years. Recently went to join a gym and the checkoff was not only super redundant it was almost rigid and offensive.
Please remember in a gym there is considerable liability in case of an accident. So many injury cases end up in court. Besides the assurance of safety a court case will usually involve a check list of safety standards. The over redundancy is a result of such litigation. Please don’t be offended by this. I think your outdoor experience is something very positive you bring to a gym. I certainly appreciate what people like yourself share with me. But I also have sat on a jury in a personal injury case and that outcome was determined by how well the defendants were able to show they were adhering to that checklist of standard practices.
That looks a lot like Stone Summit Kennesaw. I'd be careful about putting your finger through the gate when clipping. One google of degloving (you really shouldn't look it up) scared me plenty. SSK was one of the best gyms I've climbed in!
I Googled it just now, and the regret is mine.
Just take an in person class if it is at all available to you. Don't try to take a short cut and get away with just watching a video. Somebody's life is in your hands when you belay, and simply watching a video does not give you the muscle memory needed for each individual step you need to take each time someone starts up the wall. Be responsible, not lazy.
Thank you for the comment. The skill in climbing isn’t getting up the wall it’s getting up and down safely. A belay card doesn’t assure you understand the dangers. You need personal instruction to correct your mistakes. These videos are helpful to emphasize points but we all need instruction.
Great video... A few thoughts. I teach for folks to use the "on belay belay on, climbing climb on" commands after checking (as you demonstrated) so there is a verbal command exchanged. I stress, that... While they aren't actually ON BELAY because they haven't clipped anything, at least keeping the verbal commands help signal intent to each other. When they clip their first piece then I teach the belayer to say: Ok, you are now actually on belay!
We also teach "Clipping, Clipped" to newer leaders and belayers to signal what's going on. I realize this isn't as important, but it can be handy if you are sketching on a clip and the belayer can't quite make if you've cliped or not.
Again, love your videos, I'll probably use this as a primer for folks who want to get into lead climbing. :) (oh, and I know that first clip is super silly low, but we teach to never skip a clip)
I had a friend that would say "I never found a clip I didn't like". Yeah, anything that promotes more communication is probably good. I do think it's important for it to mean something. Sometimes people say "on belay" and they really mean "okay i'm ready" and they don't know what on belay even means. Decently inconsequential in single pitch... but multi, can have big implications.
Gotta say I've always found the "on belay belay on, climbing climb on" to be quite silly. I can't imagine how saying the magical words is safer than "you good?" "yup" and having a habit of glancing at the climber's knot and the belayer's device. I especially don't see the benefit of having two separate things being said... I'll know that you're climbing because my eyes are open and I can see you climbing.
Lol I thought that gym looked familiar, then I recognized the cameraman. Shout out SSK!
Shout out! maybe i'll see you there.
15:50 when taking your belay test, don't skip the first clip like this. Most gyms will fail you for doing this (or skipping clips higher up), or will take your lead card and force you to retest again.
Is it annoying? Yes, as are most of the other "gym specific rules" (e.g. having to do the two-handed slack-taking motion, because the regular technique of just sliding your brake hand up is insufficient according to the actuaries who work at the insurance companies that provide policies to climbing gyms). I used to be pretty upset about these rules in the gym, but the thing is that there are a TON of people with pretty questionable abilities / instincts in the gym, and those people are needed to help the gym stay in business. Although a good belayer doesn't need to do the "two-handed liability shuffle" for taking up slack (which is worse in many ways, especially with an autoblocking device), making everyone do that is the only way this can work (kinda like speed limits; just because you can drive +10 over the speed limit doesn't mean everyone is able to, skill-wise).
Most gyms are fine with it if you vocalize beforehand what you're doing and why during the test. Under 10ft is a general rule for a clip, some very low clips aren't the greatest especially for jumping soft falls on taller walls with a lighter belayer because the autoblocking devices can hit into the quickdraw. Good advice though Sam!
@@setadoon it may vary based on the part of the country one is in. Where I'm at right now, someone got seriously injured by forgetting to clip into an autobelay and basically did the "highest-ball bouldering problem", and then sued the gym -_- I think all gyms in the area became extra strict after that
One gear recommendation to avoid getting yanked around by weight difference: Edelrid Ohm. It's pretty pricey, but it can really help if there is a >20 lb weight diff between climber and belayer
Our gym actually allows you to go to the third bolt. Frankly, I'll pull anyone up to the first bolt because I'm heavy.
@@summitseekersexperience If the goal is for viewers to be safe and pass their lead test, I agree with clipping each bolt, since: (1) it's safer, and (2) testing practices vary from gym to gym. More on 1: no clipping means climber falling decks with full acceleration; even a heavier climber will likely be slowed if clipped.
Your videos are great and many beginners watch and rely on them. They may not read the comments. Please consider a v2 of this video for the sake of beginners so they can learn best practices (e.g. don't take eyes off climber, don't belay barefoot, don't skip clips, avoid leg behind rope, tie stopper knot, and arguably paying out slack on GriGri same as tube device except when clipping (per multiple Petzl videos). Thanks for considering.
@@baboothewonderspam for sure. I'll probably remake this one at some point, plus it's like my highest viewed video so having a second version may be good for the channel.
I was pretty surprised by this gym liability safety model in the US and Canada on a recent trip. I went to a gym on a bad weather day, and was disappointed to find that most of the routes were top rope only, and you had to pay extra to do the lead test.
In Switzerland, climbers are responsible for their own safety. Gyms usually only have 3-4 top rope routes, and the rest are lead. Beginner courses are offered and recommended, but there are no belay or lead tests required when climbing at a new gym. In my opinion, this creates a climbing culture where people are more aware of the risks and take more personal responsibility for their own safety.
I got the impression that the North American approach makes the sport accessible to more people, but results in a greater number of less responsible climbers. Any thoughts?
At least in Madrid/Spain, in most of the new gyms, per my experience: Around third/half the routes have top rope with an auto belay system (never the ones with big drops or ceilings that would convert you into a huge pendulum). You can lead on ALL routes. If it's an auto belay route, you just let go the auto belay, so it retracts completely, you do the route, and once you finish you clip yourself to it and bring it down again. If it's your first time leading/belaying in that gym, you can call an instructor and he/she'll supervise you setting up the equipment and doing a simple route (this is free). If everything goes fine, they'll give you a tag to hang in your harness and you're good to go.
@ZaiLafone well, firstly, you have to understand in the US you can sue anybody for anything so people are very scared of liability issues in any business, climbing included. So that results in some differences here which you also see highlighted in healthcare, FDA, etc. So gyms have managed this by providing some checks with belay test, lead tests, waivers, etc. In regards to people being responsible for their own safety here, despite the gyms layers of liability protection, I would say most people still assume responsibility for themselves here, they understand the risks of climbing and what they're signing up for. I know my peers wouldn't file suit on a gym unless it was the gym's equipment that failed and resulted in injury (Like a top rope anchor failing).
Do you live in Switzerland? Let's switch houses for a while ;-)
@@summitseekersexperience Thanks for the response! Great to hear that a responsible climbing culture persists despite existing within a culture more geared toward business liability.
I do live in Switzerland, and I highly recommend checking out the climbing here if you ever get a chance. There’s more than enough for multiple lifetimes 😄.
I moved from N.America to Germany and was kind of shocked by the lack of a belay test at the gym. On the other hand, once I got used to it, I love that most climbing is lead and not top rope. But I have occasionally seen some incredibly unsafe stuff at the German gym, like someone trying to coach a beginner partner through lead belaying without a third person , and also teaching them a lot of sloppy technique
I live in Switzerland and the belaying I see in the gyms is, frankly, atrocious. I know the US has a silly lawsuit culture, but the gyms should do a bit more to prevent people from injuring themselves.
I see at least 50% of belayers putting the rope between the climbers legs when they're low to the ground, so that if the climber fell on the first two clips they would have a rather painful experience. Probably another 50% (often the same people) stand >3m from the wall with way too much slack.
Once I saw two beginners in the lead gym who thought they could just guess how to belay. They came to the conclusion that the belayer should death grip the grigri, and it should be the climber's job to pull the rope through grigri. Then they both panicked when the friction was too high and the climber was no longer physically capable of accomplishing this. I think gym's safety standards should be at least high enough to prevent these people from getting on the wall.
Of course, most of these people exclusively climb things that they are very unlikely to fall on, which is why they rarely experience the consequences of the bad technique.
He didn't clip first point LOL
Rope length from mid chest not shoulder gets you that extra tail. Also he did it but didn't mention, the loop of rope from your harness to the knot wants to be on the smaller side. You pull that smaller before you follow through the figure 8.
Love your videos. They are my new go to when suggesting videos to climbers. I have a very minor improvement, when clipping an opposing biner using the middle finger, teach using only the tip of your finger.
good pointer... yeah, the less committed your finger is the better in the case of an unexpected fall ;-)
Nice video, very good explanations in a shorts time. Only thing (but quite important) that was strange to me: as a belayer, you ought to have your eyes on your climber all the time of the climb, even if you are recording a training video (or even more, when doing so)
Eyes on the climber is always a good practice
It is good to pay attention especially when they are low to the ground. But, sometimes there's no way to see them because of an overhang, or you don't want your neck in pain from looking up all day.
That sure looks like Stone Summit Kennesaw....great stuff, no lead for me....just belaying for the crew. Thanks for the intro!
Didn't notice until 14 min in, this is the Stone Summit Kennesaw.
see you there!
Just the middle finger scares me cause if you fall at the time you clip your finger will break for sure..
Weird seeing these differences in standard. You would have failed the test in the first two minutes here in Norway.
You forgot the stopper knot, and WAAAY to short of a tail on tha figure 8.
Great video overall but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT USE A GRIGRI AS SHOWN IN THIS VIDEO! Belay like you're using a regular ATC The method shown in this video is not the proper method and can lead to the rope slipping. Always read the manuals of your devices, especially when your partners life is quite literally in your hands.
You could watch this video 10 times and still drop your partner on the test etc if you haven’t practiced the skills required to lead belay safely. Find somebody who knows what they’re doing and learn with them.
Absolutely. You gotta practice the stuff
@@summitseekersexperience so many bad belayers. I saw a guy in my gym climb almost to the anchors with his girlfriend holding the rope - no belay device. People seem to think there’s no risk if you’re climbing indoors.
@@joelknapp9112 Thats crazy
This was really helpful; thank you! I passed my lead tests. Of course, I also practiced quite a bit on the ground with friends and a back-up belayer, but this helped reinforce things that were difficult to remember after one single class.
Stone Summit!
Me sitting here watching going man that gym looks familiar, zooms out and sees the ping pong table😂 yooo this is the gym I just joined😅
Nice, I'll see you up there sometime!
It tripped me out as well. This isn't the first time I've seen my gym randomly on YT.
Very informative thank you
On the rope its called irregularities. Bumps, soft spots and cuts. Old school.....
Woa cool that's my gym. Just found your channel. It;s been great to learn more basics for outdoor climbing.
Oh ya and THWG! haha
Nice, Holler at me next time you see me there. Go Jackets!
I’m not convinced about this spotting with the rope on your thumbs. There is a high change of injury/breaking those thumbs when the climber falls. The rope is on your harness, you’ll find it blindly. No rope in your hands/on your thumbs, it’s a false sense of security
From 15:22 there is a instruction on how spot. While holding the the rope.
Either you spot or you belay, no strange halfway solutions.
I’ve seen a lot of people holding the rope this way before the first clip, it’s very strange to me. No-one I’ve asked has given me a good answer as to why they’re doing it.
I'm not sure how having a rope on your hands during the spot increases the chance of your thumbs breaking. Do you have any data for that?
@@summitseekersexperience Corne is talking about having your thumbs splayed out instead of together against the rest of your fingers, the rope is not necessarily the problem.
@@gabrieltwinwithulm7466 got you. Could be an issue. Could definitely make the case to change the technique. I have never had an issue but doesn't mean something couldn't happen.
Perfect recommendation for me. I’m taking my first lead class this Thursday:)
Nice, go get em!!
@@summitseekersexperience thank you! I am practicing my clips rn!
Back stepping? The climber forgot to clip into the first draw :)
Passing a lead climbing test in the gym 😅😅😅😅😅😅 a recipe for a ground fall
Nice video but belayer should always wear some kind of shoes.
NO STOPPER?!
you didn't tie the end of the rope....
This is not a requirement for our lead test…
But for sure a good practice
Nice tutorial! Thanks
@2:50, about that tail and the overhand backup knot. People need to realize not to make the tail too long. About a month after I passed my lead test at CRG Hadley, I made a tail too long, backed it up, and about halfway up a route, I discovered I had mistakenly clipped the loop from the backup, as opposed to the actual lead portion. Used up all my endurance getting THAT UN-effed.
If you were to clip above your head, how would the fall be any bigger than moving up and clipping at your waist? Wouldn't it be the same fall height?
o vs. o
/ \ / \
/ \ X \
X \ \
The lower you are, that much extra rope you need to pull up.
15:48 did he intentionally skip the first clip?
yeah... this is a normal practice at a lot of gyms and allows me to jump as the belayer and provide a softer catch.
Thanks, this is great prep before attending a lead course.
Well, fun fact in Poland you literary don't need anything to climb, be it rock, or mountain climbing. There is no certification at all, any idiot can climb up and fall to its death. Who need course, when you have youtube? How hard can it be...
Natural selection. Americans take all the precautions to cover their asses because suing here has now become an American tradition
Z clip also double the load on the top draw..
It does not double the load on the top clip in a fall.
14:33 you eventually never did check each other though?
Our buddy missed his first clip I think 😮
Thumbnail is SSA, video is SSK
Gotta spread the love.
One thing I wonder about is when spotting the climber before the first clip, why would you want to have any rope in the way of a potential fall? To me , it seems like a possible hazard.
To be ready to start belaying once he passes that first bolt I guess
Awesome video 👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽
Thanks!
I never realized that there are climbing licenses
"You who choose to lead must follow...
I think Yoda said this in some starwars movie
In lead climbing and climbing from the ground (without clipping 1st bolt), would you call on belay (before "climbing")? Is it necessary or good practice?
technically you are not on belay before you clip. Normally as the belayer, I will call "on belay" after my climber has clipped their first bolt and I have the rope tightened to where if they fall I will catch them.
Didn’t he miss the first draw?
thx for the refresher
🙌
Great video! 👌 Like that you specified and clarified that one should only temporarly and with caution hold the mechanical handle.
He missed the first clip
I once had a lead fall while high clipping. My belayer jumped just high enough to "absorb" the fall give me all the extra slack I needed to deck.
Sounds like u were still in the danger zone when clipping
Super dope video! Thanks for sharing!
Been top roping for many years but not familiar with hard side vs easy side when tying in.
They just mean the tighter part of the figure eight that you’re putting the rope through
Great video.
Thanks man!!!
This is the techniques the amga teaches?
The AMGA doesn’t really focus on passing a lead indoor climbing test… this video was more tailored to my climbing gyms exam
In the good days of rock climbing back in the seventies and early eighties, we learned how to lead climb by doing it.
No you didn’t. You had more experienced climbers to learn from.
I’ve been lead trad climbing outside for about half a year yet I’ve failed my gym’s lead test twice hahaha. Thanks for the video so I can pass these corporate climbing tests.
Pls update me with a Tag on how it went and Nation of your test.
I want to do the same and don't want any bs non rules stopping me :)
Great video !
🙌
...and the use of an atc ??????
I'd recommend using a grigri in call cases but an atc you would do all the same steps except modify the belay technique for the atc or whatever belay device
If your chalk bag is attached on a utility cord around your waist, than you could get hurt if it catches something on the wall during your fall.
Gri-gri is really bad for newbies, it's complicated, and they learn the wrong movements. ATC is much better.
Rock hits belayer on head. Gri gri you might have a chance, atc you die.
Love your videos bro. All the details but straight to the points.
🙌🙌
So for pulling slack up down slide slide rather than the PBUS method?
PBUS is acceptable.
As always, great video! Thank you!
Do not use the grigri like that please! Practice a lot using it like normal ATC, follow the Petzl guide. To much risk man
miserable.