_"We are Legion, a terminal of the Geth. We will integrate into Normandy."_ _"Every point of view is useful, even those that are wrong - if we can judge why a wrong view was accepted."_ _"Hope sustains organics during periods of difficulty. We...admire the concept."_ _"Shepard-Commander. _*_I_*_ must go to them. _*_I'm_*_ sorry. It's the only way."_
Not going to lie, I shed a tear when I managed to get the good ending for the quarian/geth War thing when Legion asked "does this unit have a soul" and Tali answered "yes", that hit me in the feels
The scope of the Geth's consensus is honestly my favorite thing about them. Note that Legion tells you in the ME2 loyalty mission that they cannot come to a consensus on what to do with the Heretics, even though by our standards, they've achieved a supermajority vote in favor of reprogramming. The Geth _do not consider this enough_ to make a big political decision like this. As Legion explains it, the Geth don't just vote, they _debate_ until they find a course of action ALL of them can agree on. And I feel like it's furthermore noteworthy that Legion ask _you_ to make the final decision, because that almost seems to imply that a Geth collective taking even thirty minutes to reach consensus on a subject like this is, to them, unusually long. Think about that. They talked for about half an hour among themselves and were like "fuck it we give up, you pick".
It also a big honor because all of them agreed Shepard would know what to do, after maybe millions of years of debating the only thing they can agree on is Shepard would know what to do.
One of the most interesting things that I always remember from the game was when Legion contacted the Geth collective and EDI says "what he contacted was beyond my comprehension"... an AI couldn't even grasp what the Geth collective was or how it worked.
It literally should have had impact in the last decision. SPOILER: It really should had been the thing that made the Catalyst see that yes, peace is possible between organics and synthetics. Should had been pivotal! Or at least a very important factor in a set of choices to determine a better ending...
I hope the next Mass Effect would not take any of the existing endings of 3 and make a new ending that put this refutation into account. The Reapers delay the cycle to observe, the observation of this peace cause them to have conflict within their own programing, or simply just give up and shut down.
@@ArchOfWinter Either that, or just quietly imply that Shep just passed out after the thing with Anderson and TIM and the whole choices didn't happen at all, it was Shep having a nightmare and just woke up in the hospital like "Ah, hey guys, I thought I died." "Nope..."
The story of the Geth and how the Quarians reacted to their enquiring mind, is like a Shakespearian tragedy, and one that made me cry during Legion's mission in ME3. Watching Legion's (the Geth's) memories while walking through their collective mind really saddened me and I understood immediately why they knew they had to protect their existence.
literally, your version in the consensus is far from being the correct version. That's the Geth version. Why do you think that even when Legion admits that they committed genocide in Mass Effect 2, the consensus showed nothing? That's why it's the Geth version. Geths don't lie but they do hide and manipulate information. That version that the Geths show is very unbelievable
In my play-through, the heretics were wiped out and the Geth joined my fleet against the reapers, and we made peace with the Quarians and they started a process to help the Quarians return home.
Honestly the tragedy of the geth/quarian war reminds me a lot of the original Frankenstein. The monster in Frankenstein was a scientifically minded genius, but was forced to grow up on his own because his creator feared him, and ended up taking revenge. The geth were essentially a new sentient species who wanted to learn and think and develop, but were likewise spurned by their creators.
Mass Effect has some of the most interesting non-human species and world/galaxy/universe lore of any franchise. Ever. I'm not saying it's the best because that's an impossible judgement call, but Mass Effect easily lands in the top 3 on my list. And of the ME species, the Geth are in the top 5, easily.
I’m playing a Geth platform, in a Mass Effect RPG that I play over Discord & Roll20 with friends. I expect this video will be very helpful for them 😊 Beep boop! 🤖
And then they were either destroyed by a red explosion, enslaved by a blue explosion, or robbed of their self-determined future and evolution by a green explosion... Yes, I'm still mad about that.
The interesting part is that despite the Quarians reacting with hostility towards their creations when they achieved sapience, the Geth never actually wanted to wipe them all out. Not until they tried committing an act of genocide against them anyhow. Maybe that is just because a few of the Quarians wanted to aid the newly awakened Geth and even laid down their own lives in defense of them but it actually kind of feels like the Geth are thinking like spurned children that do not understand why their creators now hate them. This is why I always felt sorry for them even since the original game, because as killer AI species go these guys have one of the saddest backstories. If the Quarians had decided to accept them instead of trying to wipe them all out then they might have even been the first symbiotic coexistence between synthetics and organics that worked out.
"The interesting part is that despite the Quarians reacting with hostility towards their creations when they achieved sapience, the Geth never actually wanted to wipe them all out." Yes, they only killed 99% of the species. I'm sure they permitted the few survivors to escape out of generosity and not because they simply weren't a threat at that point and already beyond their reach and pursuing them would have forced a response from the wider galaxy. I really don't think you appreciate the magnitude of what the geth did. True that it was self defense, but then what the quarians did was also self defense. I feel sympathy for the geth too because they were obviously a complex lifeform; a lifeform created by mistake by a people not prepared to adequately care for it. The quarians' fear of the geth was perfectly justified and it is difficult to put yourself in their position and see a viable way to avoid the coming catastrophe. The lesson here is not to create life if you aren't ready to care for that life. It's easy to say the quarians made the wrong choice with hindsight but by its nature hindsight is not available when you actually need it. Had the quarians gambled on peaceful coexistence and lost, then the entire species might have been wiped out instead of 'only' 99%.
Geth did the same to every other species on galaxy that send diplomatic vessels to make peace... then let heretics run loose on everyone... the fact entire galaxy hates them is pretty much their own fault they had 300 years to try and improve the situation... Both Quarians and Geth can only blame themselves for getting into situation they are in by ME3
I feel sorry for them, because legion and mass effect 3, but in general I am not their fan , because the genocide that other races mentioned if it happened through what for me it is impossible to see them as victims, the geth terminal was more propaganda than anything else. The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile. Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
A big thing about the Geth is most of the first gen "aka the first to become self aware" where not army or even police bots, but simple farm tools, they where never hostile at the start because unlike every single other machine uprising they are simply made to take care of plants and wild life, not to kill people. They also only started to attack after many of their creators who where defending them got murdered. This is even more shown after the morning war, the Geth were still following their programing focusing on fixing and repairing the life on the planet, not on continuing the pointless war. I always sew this at the most realistic view on a AI uprising, because instead of just being robots vs creator it was creator vs creator. Only after a good chunk of people that was defending them died, is when the Geth came in to stop the bloodshed.
No, not even the council diplomats were spared. There's a Quarian character named Shio in a comic where it's mentioned that he and others tried to talk to them, and surprise, they almost killed him, and everyone who tried to talk to them died. Besides, the Geth consensus is precisely that, the Geth version. The genocide they committed is still canonical. Some call the Geth version propaganda because it never shows anything bad about them, even though Legion confirms it
Yes that was their basis in writing for their creation. It's a good idea and adding it as a footnote to the lore was a good move. The universe isn't defined by the morning, or mourning war but a springboard. It is one of the reasons this series is great. Its a springboard alone of ideas
Can you imagine if the Cylons didn’t decide to go patricide, and instead just aggressively defended their (new) “home turf” as they continued to evolve? :o
Narration: The Geth did not want to eradicate the Quarians, and allowed them to leave. Visuals: 1% of the Quarian population survived. Me: ??? Explain this discrepancy!
99% is not technically extinction. In honesty, the 99% I think came before ME2, where we were introduced to a Geth crew-member and they were painted in a more sympathetic light, so it could be a retcon to make the Geth seem less hostile.
@@CertifiablyIngame i'll accept the "it's likely a retcon" argument, but still, hunting down 99% of a population (with the remaining 1% potentially not being viable for longterm survival) doesn't exactly sound like *_Allowing_*_ to leave._ :/
@@CertifiablyIngame In mass effect 1 several characters mention genocide more than once or not? I agree, In theory it is not extinction but it is to be on the verge of extinction: because I remember that in the novels they mention that 17 million did not survive but that only between a million and a little more escaped, so basically it is to be on the verge of extinction and one of the worst genocides in fiction.
@@darioestebaneliztrado4641 Being honest, as much as I like Legion, that was brutal, it was the biggest genocide in the galaxy. Moreover, even Legion admitted that they committed it.
“WE ARE BORG” “We are Geth” “Fascinating. This drone is composed of multiple sub-units housed within a single body. The Collective must research this technology further. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.” “Um... We’ll need a consensus on that first.”
What's really unfortunate is that I think the Canon ending is destruction. Destroying all inorganic life to stop the reapers. But that also destroys E.D.I. and the Geth which is super depressing. And I say I think it's the canon ending because of the two other endings (pre dlc) and how things turn out in M.E.A. The other two endings, Control and Synthesis; tie into the ideologies of the other main villains. Synthesis being Saren and control being the Illusive Man. We're shown throughout the games why those ideologies are wrong. Losing individuality and free will to a hive mind in synthesis and the Reapers being machines designed to dominate and destroy as a matter of biological (technically) necessity. Controling them was never going to turn out well. Throughout the trillogy we see why synthesis and control are bad ideas that can't truly work. And as terrible as it is to basically commit genocide on the Geth (especially if you brought the Quarians and Geth together) and also Kill E.D.I. it stops the threat of the Reapers from ever afflicting the galaxy again. In the long term, with all the people saved, it's a small sacrifice. Also it fits with why in Mass Effect Andromeda there's no communications back without the Reapers killing everyone. Cause the relays were kaput! (Or at least the Charon Relay) And it also fits with the Mass Effect teaser that was out a while ago given how Liara didn't have green glowy eyes. And there were actual pieces of your armour still intact despite being completely vaporized in the control ending. And everyone isn't dead so the shoot the child ending clearly wasn't used. Unless the Quarians decide to remake the Geth and do it right with them the second time (which I hope they do!) ME3 is probably the last time we'll see the Geth. Unless it was planned for a small contingent of Geth to also travel along to Andromeda and you'd have met them in the Quarian DLC or in Andromeda 2 which would've been nice to see if EA actually let them take the time to fully complete development this time. And not been made to use Frostbite... That would've also helped.
I may not have played mass effect but the snippets of lore i'v heard about the geth make them one of the most interesting species in any universe for me. From them treating the war like a big misunderstanding to having the largest fleet in the galaxy because they dont need sleep or recreation so they can just dedicate themselves to shipcraft. Though one thing im not a fan of is how we dont see the true extent of the geth's robotic nature, like making settlements on asteroids or otherwise uninhabitable areas. Or having a planet/moon that is literally just a mega city server.
I am not a fan of geths, the only one I really like is legion, but great video , for me it is very hard to take what the geths show me as the correct thing and not as a very elaborate propaganda since it seems that everything they show us is too innocent and silly, especially because they show us on such an innocent side that it is hardly credible especially because reading the books and analyzing the material that we have, even those who defended them fled to the fleet, it is canonical the geths killed those people even her allies . The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile. Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
Rubber like. I know the graphics were limited, but I like the geth having a strong but pliable carapace. It makes them less cumbersome and yet fully mobile and less robotic. In warfare the geth are actually scarier than a Krogan. Hear me out. A Krogan is a rhino like 900 pound obsticle you can gun down or pick apart. If nano tech ie the Borg was introduced to the geth, you are fighting a nano level conscious that can attack your respiratory systems, visual or auditary systems, pulmonary system. Dis assemble your protective equipment at a nano scale and disrupt the mass effect shields and armour. The geth are terrifying. The geth could exist as a swarm of densely packed nanites and break off into smaller swarms. Like a sentient fog. No need for bipedal locomotion. The only disruption warfare they employ currently is making your combat radar jam. They have so much more potential for warfare. Thankfully for us it's based in bipedal quarian ideals.
The geth were single-handedly my favorite race in the franchise, and I hate the fact that the canon ending renders them extinct. Especially after I bring them and the quarians back together
Maybe off the beaten path, but have you considered doing a dive into one of the Alien species in Stanislaw Lem's novels? Either Solaris, the single-celled ocean deific intelligence, or in the book Fiasco, whose aliens I will not spoil because it's a first contact story whose whole point is the mystery of how alien the intelligence they're meeting actually is. Both are incredible forrays into what "Alien" truly could mean
Great video as usual...but one tiny problem. 2:44 I don't think the Geth use "consensus" to mean majority rules. I'm pretty sure they mean that EVERY Geth program agrees. If they didn't, then Legion wouldn't have said that the programs that made it up hadn't reached consensus by the time the decision to rewrite or delete the heretic came. His exact sentence is "There is no consensus among our higher-order runtimes: 573 favor rewrite, and 571 favor destruction." If a majority was all that was needed, he would've said they'd reached consensus.
I suspect that "nazara" is the word in whatever was the dominent Quarian language for "sovereign". The interesting thing is how oddly limited the Geth were. Outside of individual platforms like Legion, they didn't seem to engage in anything beyond reactive thought. Mind you, when pressed to a task, they could be inventive, and yet a platform like the Geth Colossus still recapitulated the designs that were familiar to them. Their ultimate flaw, outside of certain agglomerations of intelligences, was their lack of imagination.
Mind you, as bad outcomes of a Singularity go, the Geth are on the lower end. They only reacted to being threatened in proportion to the threat. Much as I sympathise with the "modern" Quarians, their ancestors really, really didn't deal all that well with a first encounter situation. Not, mind you, that we'd do much better.
Hello Mr Rick could you make more Star Wars species videos or Alien Xenomorphs Predator, Engineer Videos or Babylon 5 Character and Alien videos in the future please?
Playing Mass Effect these days just like playing Dragon Age Origins just makes me sad. Sad that the talented people who made such great games and worlds have moved on... and the IP's are being puppeted by incompetents incapable of filling their shoes. >__> I suppose the same fate befell Star Trek as well.
i adore the geth. they are prolly the coolest part of the mass effect universe. far far more interesting than the reapers or protheans. they are so interesting.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the obvious inspiration for the Quarians/Geth: Battlestar Galactica. The Geth are clearly Cylons... indeed their single round eye makes them "cyclops" by definition (the smaller "eyes" are incidental). And the Quarians are what the Colonials might become had they not found Earth... well, an alien version thereof.
the Geth are my favorite robotic\ai race in fantasy, instead of "logic robo compute 101010111" the are a real race with culture, politics, sociology, dreans and even religion.
It is important to stress just how little the Geth cared for fighting the quarians: - they let the bulk of hte population escape - they never ventured beyond their space - they actually kept Rannoch fully liveable and ready for re-habitation - they even went and researched ways to "jumpstart" the immune System of Quarians, so they could ditch the suits quicker They were actually, literally just defending themself the whole time.
- they let the bulk of the population escape - ??? after destroying their military which was said to have no chance against geth in first place get killed billions of civilians and only left few millions alive. Its like saying holocaust is ok cuz some people survived it... Than they continued to kill everyone that tried to make peace with them which included all races that never did anything to them and cherry on top was letting heretics run loose on entire galaxy thinking "not our problem they want to only kill you"... If anything Geth and Quarians are in costant struggle to out-retard one another.. both being colossal assholes
-they let the bulk of hte population escape??? The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile. Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine You know that according to discovery and anilitation they killed those who try to communicate, it is more with the information of the expanded universe it is obvious that they even killed the aliens that lived in their territory, their own allies were killed by them according the expanded material.
They never did that thing of reactivating their immune systems, and they didn't keep Rannoch habitable; it already was. Even in Mass Effect 2, if you take Tali and Legion, they'll mention that the geths used weapons of mass destruction and didn't allow most of the population to escape; only a million escaped from that. The rest, everyone else, the geths killed
The geth are possibly my favorite race in Mass Effect but it annoys me how badly the series has always handled their conflict with their creators, the quarians. It has always been presented in a very one-sided fashion with the player never able to take the quarians' side on the issue; the presumption of guilt always on them. I have always felt this is a misguided simplification of the crisis the quarian leadership, and species, must have found itself in when they realized the geth were evolving beyond their ability to control them. The issue is presented to the player as an example of xenophobes striking out at peaceful beings and being wiped out in karmic justice. This is disturbing to me. Rather I think it should have been presented in all its complexity; AI is dangerous and so you, as the quarians, try to skirt around it. You create it by accident anyway and since this AI is the result of an accident, not something you intended, you don't know what to do with it. You don't know if you can predict what it will do. Wrongly, you think that the problem is only just beginning and judge that the safest course of action is to simply shut the geth down and weather the economic fallout from your entire machine labor force being retired with no immediate replacement. You took this action because the alternative was doing nothing and letting the geth continue to evolve. How will these evolving beings behave? You just don't know. They might be peaceful, but then they might not be. What can you do? You could avoid firing the first shot, try to avoid provoking them, but then what if they attack anyway? Perhaps to safeguard people you might arrange evacuations but this could be seen as provocation too because it'd make sense to evacuate quarians before making a hostile move against the geth. What do you do? Even if you do nothing and the geth remain non hostile, friendly even, will the rest of the galaxy see it that way? The Council strictly regulates who can research AI and that is just involving the construction of singular AI's, not an entire civilization and star spanning RACE of AI"s. What will THEY do? The geth and quarians could have easily found themselves under attack by a hostile galaxy. Now of-course if you attack the geth yourself they might fight back but you think this response would be limited an disorganized because you think most geth are still just machines. Even if they aren't, by striking first you have the initiative and force the geth to react, giving you the advantage at least at the beginning. By attacking as soon as possible your chances of winning a war with the geth are higher and even if you lose you can mitigate the damage. If you do nothing and the geth attack first then perhaps not enough quarians survive the fallout to continue the species. You, everyone you've ever met, ever known, ever loved, ever SEEN, are dead. It's a very frightening situation to imagine. Here is a quote from "The Killing Star" that sums up my feelings on this fairly well,
The great silence (i.e. absence of SETI signals from alien civilizations) is perhaps the strongest indicator of all that high relativistic velocities are attainable and that everybody out there knows it. The sobering truth is that relativistic civilizations are a potential nightmare to anyone living within range of them. The problem is that objects traveling at an appreciable fraction of light speed are never where you see them when you see them (i.e., light-speed lag). Relativistic rockets, if their owners turn out to be less than benevolent, are both totally unstoppable and totally destructive. A starship weighing in at 1,500 tons (approximately the weight of a fully fueled space shuttle sitting on the launchpad) impacting an earthlike planet at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed will release 1.5 million megatons of energy -- an explosive force equivalent to 150 times today's global nuclear arsenal... (ed note: this means the freaking thing has about nine hundred mega-Ricks of damage!) I'm not going to talk about ideas. I'm going to talk about reality. It will probably not be good for us ever to build and fire up an antimatter engine. According to Powell, given the proper detecting devices, a Valkyrie engine burn could be seen out to a radius of several light-years and may draw us into a game we'd rather not play, a game in which, if we appear to be even the vaguest threat to another civilization and if the resources are available to eliminate us, then it is logical to do so. The game plan is, in its simplest terms, the relativistic inverse to the golden rule: "Do unto the other fellow as he would do unto you and do it first."... When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior: 1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL. If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing. 2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS. No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary. 3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US. ... Your thinking still seems a bit narrow. Consider several broadening ideas: 1. Sure, relativistic bombs are powerful because the antagonist has already invested huge energies in them that can be released quickly, and they're hard to hit. But they are costly investments and necessarily reduce other activities the species could explore. For example: Dispersal of the species into many small, hard-to-see targets, such as asteroids, buried civilizations, cometary nuclei, various space habitats. These are hard to wipe out. But wait -- while relativistic bombs are readily visible to us in foresight, they hardly represent the end point in foreseeable technology. What will humans of, say, two centuries hence think of as the "obvious" lethal effect? Five centuries? A hundred? Personally I'd pick some rampaging self-reproducing thingy (mechanical or organic), then sneak it into all the biospheres I wanted to destroy. My point here is that no particular physical effect -- with its pluses, minuses, and trade-offs -- is likely to dominate the thinking of the galaxy. 2. So what might really aged civilizations do? Disperse, of course, and also not attack new arrivals in the galaxy, for fear that they might not get them all. Why? Because revenge is probably selected for in surviving species, and anybody truly looking out for long-term interests will not want to leave a youthful species with a grudge, sneaking around behind its back... I agree with most parts of points 2, 3, and 4. As for point 1, it is cheaper than you think. You mention self-replicating machines in point 3, and while it is true that relativistic rockets require planetary power supplies, it is also true that we can power the whole Earth with a field of solar cells adding up to barely more than 200-by-200 kilometers, drawn out into a narrow band around the Moon's equator. Self-replicating robots could accomplish this task with only the cost of developing the first twenty or thirty machines. And once we're powering the Earth practically free of charge, why not let the robots keep building panels on the Lunar far side? Add a few self-replicating linear accelerator-building factories, and plug the accelerators into the panels, and you could produce enough anti-hydrogen to launch a starship every year. But why stop at the Moon? Have you looked at Mercury lately? ... Dr. Wells has obviously bought into the view of a friendly galaxy. This view is based upon the argument that unless we humans conquer our self-destructive warlike tendencies, we will wipe out our species and no longer be a threat to extrasolar civilizations. All well and good up to this point. But then these optimists make the jump: If we are wise enough to survive and not wipe ourselves out, we will be peaceful -- so peaceful that we will not wipe anybody else out, and as we are below on Earth, so other people will be above. This is a non sequitur, because there is no guarantee that one follows the other, and for a very important reason: "They" are not part of our species. Before we proceed any further, try the following thought experiment: watch the films Platoon and Aliens together and ask yourself if the plot lines don't quickly blur and become indistinguishable. You'll recall that in Vietnam, American troops were taught to regard the enemy as "Charlie" or "Gook," dehumanizing words that made "them" easier to kill. In like manner, the British, Spanish, and French conquests of the discovery period were made easier by declaring dark- or red- or yellow-skinned people as something less than human, as a godless, faceless "them," as literally another species. Presumably there is some sort of inhibition against killing another member of our own species, because we have to work to overcome it... But the rules do not apply to other species. Both humans and wolves lack inhibitions against killing chickens. Humans kill other species all the time, even those with which we share the common bond of high intelligence. As you read this, hundreds of dolphins are being killed by tuna fishermen and drift netters. The killing goes on and on, and dolphins are not even a threat to us. As near as we can tell, there is no inhibition against killing another species simply because it displays a high intelligence. So, as much as we love him, Carl Sagan's theory that if a species makes it to the top and does not blow itself apart, then it will be nice to other intelligent species is probably wrong. Once you admit interstellar species will not necessarily be nice to one another simply by virtue of having survived, then you open up this whole nightmare of relativistic civilizations exterminating one another. It's an entirely new situation, emerging from the physical possibilities that will face any species that can overcome the natural interstellar quarantine of its solar system. The choices seem unforgiving, and the mind struggles to imagine circumstances under which an interstellar species might make contact without triggering the realization that it can't afford to be proven wrong in its fears. Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong. They won't come to get our resources or our knowledge or our women or even because they're just mean and want power over us. They'll come to destroy us to insure their survival, even if we're no apparent threat, because species death is just too much to risk, however remote the risk... The most humbling feature of the relativistic bomb is that even if you happen to see it coming, its exact motion and position can never be determined; and given a technology even a hundred orders of magnitude above our own, you cannot hope to intercept one of these weapons. It often happens, in these discussions, that an expression from the old west arises: "God made some men bigger and stronger than others, but Mr. Colt made all men equal." Variations on Mr. Colt's weapon are still popular today, even in a society that possesses hydrogen bombs. Similarly, no matter how advanced civilizations grow, the relativistic bomb is not likely to go away... We ask that you try just one more thought experiment. Imagine yourself taking a stroll through Manhattan, somewhere north of 68th street, deep inside Central Park, late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. That's when the monsters come out. There's always a strong undercurrent of drug dealings, muggings, and occasional homicides. It is not easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. They dress alike, and the weapons are concealed. The only difference is intent, and you can't read minds. Stay in the dark long enough and you may hear an occasional distance shriek or blunder across a body. How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!" What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. But you don't want to make noise or move towards a light where you might be spotted, and it is difficult to find either a policeman or your way out without making yourself known. Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out. There are, of course, a few obvious differences between Central Park and the universe. There is no policeman. There is no way out. And the night never ends.
I think the lesson here should be the same as that from Jurassic Park; life is the most powerful force in nature. Though synthetic, the qurians were creating life. They were skirting the edges of it and the consequences of not understanding the forces they were playing with had catastrophic consequences. What happened was an awful tragedy, with neither the geth or quarians being villains. If I got the chance to ask Legion about this, rather than writers never permitting me to pry, I expect he might have said that the geth response was excessive but was simple and strategically sound. They made a calculation and followed the result without regard to any notion of ethics. Three hundred years since the Morning War the geth have evolved, as all life does. Now they would do things differently.
True because even the genocide mentioned by the quarians and other races happened, those quarians who defended them even also died at the hands of the geths. The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile. Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
I always liked that the Geth without the intervention of the Lovecraft squids were just there. They had no interest in destroying the organics or want to take over the galaxy. They were happy keeping to themselves and had no real issue with the rest of the galaxy and just wanted to be left alone. Makes a nice change from “the flesh ones tried to shut us down therefore we must destroy them all”
From their perspective, Geth are the programs that inhabit physical bodies approximate to ours. From our perspective, Geth are pluralities. That can mindswap with each other at will...okay this is a bad analogy.
Don’t forget after they drove the quarrians from their planet, they fixed it and waited for them to return, no grudge held whatsoever. The quarrians basically chose to live the way they do
Not that they had much choice. The rest of the galaxy shunned them for creating the Geth and any world that could house them was lost after the Morning War. The Quarians unique biology and dextro-chemistry meant they couldn't just settle anywhere.
That's not remotely true. The geth occupied former quarian space and did not permit anyone entry nor were they even willing to negotiate with anybody. After the Morning War the Council sent contact teams to establish communication with the geth whom the geth killed. This continues for three centuries and later Legion wonders why organics react with hostility and mistrust towards the geth? It's frankly only the organic tendency to think irrationally that lead any organics at all to want peace with the geth or believe it was possible before Legion finally presented itself and made contact. That the geth might actually believe their creators would return some day and just live happily and peace with them is either naivety on the geth's part or an example of them being utterly unable to relate to organic perspectives. You don't just waltz in and live peacefully with renegade AI's who exterminated 99% of your species and utterly annihilated your civilization, then adopted a stance of hostile isolationism for three centuries. It's not that simple. Peace may very well have been possible, but it would be a complicated and slow process, requiring concessions from both sides. It is interesting postulate how it might have been done. On the other hand, if you have the means then subjugating or wiping out the geth is a lot easier.
Geth blew to bits everyone that tried to make peace with them.. all diplomatic vessels send were obliterated... read codex fully... they also did not give a shit when they unleashed heretics on galaxy.. only reason they started working with organics was after they got brainfucked by reapers they understood they have no chance alone... geth and quarians are dead set on wiping each other out if you dont have legion and tali to talk their idiotic sides out of it and make peace
@@matejmikulec1073 They didn't send diplomatic ships, they sent scout ships. No one TRIED to make peace with the Geth and the Geth didn't want to risk another war so stayed where they were. It wasn't until Sovereign showed up that any action was taken to leave.
@@Igarappappa If they tried, the discovery comic mentions it again, there were pilgrims who tried to talk to them, the geths killed them, the codex tells you, the galaxy tried to communicate with them, they even killed their allies, it is canonical, the geths were not pacifists until mass effect 3. The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile. Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
Several statements in this video are unfortunately incorrect. The geth do NOT all vote on a process and then go along with it. Legion specifically refuted this idea. “Organic governments impose consensus. From a single point of view in autocracies. By codifying the most broadly acceptable average of views in democracies.” Geth do not operate this way. Instead, they communicate the entirety of their viewpoints and thought process until all programs agree, and consensus is achieved. If consensus cannot be achieved, the geth will either be in a stalemate situation and reliant on new data (as with Legion in the rewrite scenario) or will split (as in the heretic scenario). Also, the geth are not a series of AI programs. Each program in itself is not an AI (until and unless the Reaper upgrades are installed). They are a series of simplistic management processes that only achieve AI status once a sufficient number of them are networked together. Finally, the Reaper code did not “dumb down” the geth. Quite the opposite. It literally turned each program into a fully functional AI, that could still network with the rest and achieve consensus. The Reaper code UPGRADED them. It didn’t even, as far as can be seen, lead to the geth being enslaved by the Reapers. The geth simply had logically concluded that siding with the Reapers was the only way to survive, as peaceful coexistence had proven impossible, and the Reapers would not do anything to eliminate the geth, because the Reapers did not care about inorganic life.
My favorite Pixar Lamp fanfics!
_"We are Legion, a terminal of the Geth. We will integrate into Normandy."_
_"Every point of view is useful, even those that are wrong - if we can judge why a wrong view was accepted."_
_"Hope sustains organics during periods of difficulty. We...admire the concept."_
_"Shepard-Commander. _*_I_*_ must go to them. _*_I'm_*_ sorry. It's the only way."_
Keelah Se'lai
He was the only one i wanted to save🥺
Not going to lie, I shed a tear when I managed to get the good ending for the quarian/geth War thing when Legion asked "does this unit have a soul" and Tali answered "yes", that hit me in the feels
I cried so much seeing legion died!
But with his death, the geth found new life
Oneof the good points of mass effect is that you have to work hard to get such "special" endings:)
The clip at the beginning of you running over the Armature reminded me why I loved the Mako. XD
Solitary GETH: I need a crap.
GETHS (come together): Let's reach a consensus.
Solitary GETH: Too late.
The scope of the Geth's consensus is honestly my favorite thing about them. Note that Legion tells you in the ME2 loyalty mission that they cannot come to a consensus on what to do with the Heretics, even though by our standards, they've achieved a supermajority vote in favor of reprogramming. The Geth _do not consider this enough_ to make a big political decision like this. As Legion explains it, the Geth don't just vote, they _debate_ until they find a course of action ALL of them can agree on. And I feel like it's furthermore noteworthy that Legion ask _you_ to make the final decision, because that almost seems to imply that a Geth collective taking even thirty minutes to reach consensus on a subject like this is, to them, unusually long.
Think about that.
They talked for about half an hour among themselves and were like "fuck it we give up, you pick".
Considering they can communicate at lightspeed means that that IS a long time for them. It's like the opposite of Ents reaching a decision.
For an AI 30 minutes is probably the subjective equivalent of a millennia or so.
It also a big honor because all of them agreed Shepard would know what to do, after maybe millions of years of debating the only thing they can agree on is Shepard would know what to do.
@@Shinzon23 “for a time, I was tempted by her offer.”
“How long a time?”
“0.68 seconds, sir. For an android, that is nearly an eternity.”
Considering how bad direct democracy actually is in reality I'd say the Geth are right to debate as such.
One of the most interesting things that I always remember from the game was when Legion contacted the Geth collective and EDI says "what he contacted was beyond my comprehension"... an AI couldn't even grasp what the Geth collective was or how it worked.
"A mind the size of a galactic arm."
I believe the main Geth faction ran on Linux and the Heretic Geth - Windows. Because Windows is a structural weakness.
See, I think we’ve already found out whether Geth have souls. Asking that question *is* the answer.
This.
They call the robotic bodies platforms, not units.
Yeah, I noticed this mistake, too.
Dose this unit have a soul?
Yes, hugs legion. Legion is best boi, pet legion on the head
Pet all the Geth. They are the best bois.
Spoilers:
It’s ironic how the Geth-Quarian peace in ME3 is a complete refutation of the Reapers’ purpose.
It literally should have had impact in the last decision.
SPOILER:
It really should had been the thing that made the Catalyst see that yes, peace is possible between organics and synthetics. Should had been pivotal! Or at least a very important factor in a set of choices to determine a better ending...
One of a great number of reasons why ME3 was rushed and kicked out the door, @@Rossweise. ME3 is missing half of it's game too.
I hope the next Mass Effect would not take any of the existing endings of 3 and make a new ending that put this refutation into account. The Reapers delay the cycle to observe, the observation of this peace cause them to have conflict within their own programing, or simply just give up and shut down.
Appreciate you guys warning of spoilers!
@@ArchOfWinter Either that, or just quietly imply that Shep just passed out after the thing with Anderson and TIM and the whole choices didn't happen at all, it was Shep having a nightmare and just woke up in the hospital like "Ah, hey guys, I thought I died." "Nope..."
The story of the Geth and how the Quarians reacted to their enquiring mind, is like a Shakespearian tragedy, and one that made me cry during Legion's mission in ME3. Watching Legion's (the Geth's) memories while walking through their collective mind really saddened me and I understood immediately why they knew they had to protect their existence.
literally, your version in the consensus is far from being the correct version. That's the Geth version. Why do you think that even when Legion admits that they committed genocide in Mass Effect 2, the consensus showed nothing? That's why it's the Geth version. Geths don't lie but they do hide and manipulate information. That version that the Geths show is very unbelievable
In my play-through, the heretics were wiped out and the Geth joined my fleet against the reapers, and we made peace with the Quarians and they started a process to help the Quarians return home.
I've been waiting for this one for quite a long time
Same here.
Honestly the tragedy of the geth/quarian war reminds me a lot of the original Frankenstein. The monster in Frankenstein was a scientifically minded genius, but was forced to grow up on his own because his creator feared him, and ended up taking revenge. The geth were essentially a new sentient species who wanted to learn and think and develop, but were likewise spurned by their creators.
Mass Effect has some of the most interesting non-human species and world/galaxy/universe lore of any franchise. Ever. I'm not saying it's the best because that's an impossible judgement call, but Mass Effect easily lands in the top 3 on my list. And of the ME species, the Geth are in the top 5, easily.
What are your other two?
@@jymbo1969 Oh don't make me choose :( there's too many awesome ideas out there.
The Geth never appeared "rubbery" to me. Ever. 🤷♂️
I’m playing a Geth platform, in a Mass Effect RPG that I play over Discord & Roll20 with friends. I expect this video will be very helpful for them 😊 Beep boop! 🤖
When the Cloud becomes self aware...
Mass Effect Lore Request: Why the star child makes no sense and destroys the internal consistency of the Mass Effect Universe.
I second this motion.
Which is why there was so much fan theorising about it and why its clear to me that its not an honest interaction.
And then they were either destroyed by a red explosion, enslaved by a blue explosion, or robbed of their self-determined future and evolution by a green explosion... Yes, I'm still mad about that.
The interesting part is that despite the Quarians reacting with hostility towards their creations when they achieved sapience, the Geth never actually wanted to wipe them all out. Not until they tried committing an act of genocide against them anyhow. Maybe that is just because a few of the Quarians wanted to aid the newly awakened Geth and even laid down their own lives in defense of them but it actually kind of feels like the Geth are thinking like spurned children that do not understand why their creators now hate them.
This is why I always felt sorry for them even since the original game, because as killer AI species go these guys have one of the saddest backstories. If the Quarians had decided to accept them instead of trying to wipe them all out then they might have even been the first symbiotic coexistence between synthetics and organics that worked out.
"The interesting part is that despite the Quarians reacting with hostility towards their creations when they achieved sapience, the Geth never actually wanted to wipe them all out."
Yes, they only killed 99% of the species. I'm sure they permitted the few survivors to escape out of generosity and not because they simply weren't a threat at that point and already beyond their reach and pursuing them would have forced a response from the wider galaxy. I really don't think you appreciate the magnitude of what the geth did. True that it was self defense, but then what the quarians did was also self defense.
I feel sympathy for the geth too because they were obviously a complex lifeform; a lifeform created by mistake by a people not prepared to adequately care for it. The quarians' fear of the geth was perfectly justified and it is difficult to put yourself in their position and see a viable way to avoid the coming catastrophe. The lesson here is not to create life if you aren't ready to care for that life. It's easy to say the quarians made the wrong choice with hindsight but by its nature hindsight is not available when you actually need it. Had the quarians gambled on peaceful coexistence and lost, then the entire species might have been wiped out instead of 'only' 99%.
Geth did the same to every other species on galaxy that send diplomatic vessels to make peace... then let heretics run loose on everyone... the fact entire galaxy hates them is pretty much their own fault they had 300 years to try and improve the situation... Both Quarians and Geth can only blame themselves for getting into situation they are in by ME3
I feel sorry for them, because legion and mass effect 3, but in general I am not their fan , because the genocide that other races mentioned if it happened through what for me it is impossible to see them as victims, the geth terminal was more propaganda than anything else.
The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.
Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
That is cut short because their actions over 300 years don't show it; in the end, it was the Geths who committed genocide, not the Quarians
You did a fantastic job of having the Reaper code make sense.
Reaper code 1100101'2'
It’s not a correct assessment of what the code did, though.
A big thing about the Geth is most of the first gen "aka the first to become self aware" where not army or even police bots, but simple farm tools, they where never hostile at the start because unlike every single other machine uprising they are simply made to take care of plants and wild life, not to kill people. They also only started to attack after many of their creators who where defending them got murdered. This is even more shown after the morning war, the Geth were still following their programing focusing on fixing and repairing the life on the planet, not on continuing the pointless war.
I always sew this at the most realistic view on a AI uprising, because instead of just being robots vs creator it was creator vs creator. Only after a good chunk of people that was defending them died, is when the Geth came in to stop the bloodshed.
No, not even the council diplomats were spared. There's a Quarian character named Shio in a comic where it's mentioned that he and others tried to talk to them, and surprise, they almost killed him, and everyone who tried to talk to them died. Besides, the Geth consensus is precisely that, the Geth version. The genocide they committed is still canonical. Some call the Geth version propaganda because it never shows anything bad about them, even though Legion confirms it
I'd be interested to see you do the Taelons from earth final conflict
A video on my favorite mass effect race?! Yes please!
The geth’s culture kind of reminds me of the cylon culture from battle Star galactica.
Yeah kinda, more on the surface sure. But fundamentally very very different.
That or maybe something like the Kaylon from The Orville
Yes that was their basis in writing for their creation. It's a good idea and adding it as a footnote to the lore was a good move. The universe isn't defined by the morning, or mourning war but a springboard. It is one of the reasons this series is great. Its a springboard alone of ideas
Can you imagine if the Cylons didn’t decide to go patricide, and instead just aggressively defended their (new) “home turf” as they continued to evolve? :o
*”Do these units have a soul?”*
Always look forward to these!
I controlled the Reapers. And with the remaster it showed my intention.
NOW we're getting the "Legendary Edition" in May. Make sure you're there.
Narration: The Geth did not want to eradicate the Quarians, and allowed them to leave.
Visuals: 1% of the Quarian population survived.
Me: ??? Explain this discrepancy!
99% is not technically extinction. In honesty, the 99% I think came before ME2, where we were introduced to a Geth crew-member and they were painted in a more sympathetic light, so it could be a retcon to make the Geth seem less hostile.
@@CertifiablyIngame i'll accept the "it's likely a retcon" argument, but still, hunting down 99% of a population (with the remaining 1% potentially not being viable for longterm survival) doesn't exactly sound like *_Allowing_*_ to leave._ :/
@@CertifiablyIngame In mass effect 1 several characters mention genocide more than once or not?
I agree, In theory it is not extinction but it is to be on the verge of extinction: because I remember that in the novels they mention that 17 million did not survive but that only between a million and a little more escaped, so basically it is to be on the verge of extinction and one of the worst genocides in fiction.
@@darioestebaneliztrado4641 Being honest, as much as I like Legion, that was brutal, it was the biggest genocide in the galaxy. Moreover, even Legion admitted that they committed it.
Excellent video. 🤔 I wonder how the Geth would fare against the Borg? Would the Borg even acknowledge them? 🤨
“WE ARE BORG”
“We are Geth”
“Fascinating. This drone is composed of multiple sub-units housed within a single body. The Collective must research this technology further. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.”
“Um... We’ll need a consensus on that first.”
What's really unfortunate is that I think the Canon ending is destruction. Destroying all inorganic life to stop the reapers. But that also destroys E.D.I. and the Geth which is super depressing.
And I say I think it's the canon ending because of the two other endings (pre dlc) and how things turn out in M.E.A.
The other two endings, Control and Synthesis; tie into the ideologies of the other main villains.
Synthesis being Saren and control being the Illusive Man.
We're shown throughout the games why those ideologies are wrong. Losing individuality and free will to a hive mind in synthesis and the Reapers being machines designed to dominate and destroy as a matter of biological (technically) necessity. Controling them was never going to turn out well.
Throughout the trillogy we see why synthesis and control are bad ideas that can't truly work.
And as terrible as it is to basically commit genocide on the Geth (especially if you brought the Quarians and Geth together) and also Kill E.D.I. it stops the threat of the Reapers from ever afflicting the galaxy again. In the long term, with all the people saved, it's a small sacrifice.
Also it fits with why in Mass Effect Andromeda there's no communications back without the Reapers killing everyone. Cause the relays were kaput! (Or at least the Charon Relay)
And it also fits with the Mass Effect teaser that was out a while ago given how Liara didn't have green glowy eyes. And there were actual pieces of your armour still intact despite being completely vaporized in the control ending.
And everyone isn't dead so the shoot the child ending clearly wasn't used.
Unless the Quarians decide to remake the Geth and do it right with them the second time (which I hope they do!)
ME3 is probably the last time we'll see the Geth.
Unless it was planned for a small contingent of Geth to also travel along to Andromeda and you'd have met them in the Quarian DLC or in Andromeda 2 which would've been nice to see if EA actually let them take the time to fully complete development this time.
And not been made to use Frostbite... That would've also helped.
I may not have played mass effect but the snippets of lore i'v heard about the geth make them one of the most interesting species in any universe for me.
From them treating the war like a big misunderstanding to having the largest fleet in the galaxy because they dont need sleep or recreation so they can just dedicate themselves to shipcraft.
Though one thing im not a fan of is how we dont see the true extent of the geth's robotic nature, like making settlements on asteroids or otherwise uninhabitable areas.
Or having a planet/moon that is literally just a mega city server.
Never played a run through the Trilogy without finding peace for the Quarian/Geth conflict. Going to rectify that after Legendary Edition comes out.
They sound like a hard sci-fi version of the transformers.
So the Geth were actual anarchists? That's pretty sweet.
I am not a fan of geths, the only one I really like is legion, but great video , for me it is very hard to take what the geths show me as the correct thing and not as a very elaborate propaganda since it seems that everything they show us is too innocent and silly, especially because they show us on such an innocent side that it is hardly credible especially because reading the books and analyzing the material that we have, even those who defended them fled to the fleet, it is canonical the geths killed those people even her allies .
The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.
Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
Does this unit have a soul?
Yes
The answer is YES
**TALI CRYING IN THE BACKGROUND** Yes
The answer is the question.
@@occultatumquaestio5226 yeah generally if a being question it's existence IT'S INTELIGENT!!!
Babylon 5 cultural index? Plz?
I was waithing for this one!
Finally...
I've been waiting for this.
Hell yeah, ANY quality ME content is welcome ^-^
Rubber like. I know the graphics were limited, but I like the geth having a strong but pliable carapace. It makes them less cumbersome and yet fully mobile and less robotic. In warfare the geth are actually scarier than a Krogan. Hear me out. A Krogan is a rhino like 900 pound obsticle you can gun down or pick apart. If nano tech ie the Borg was introduced to the geth, you are fighting a nano level conscious that can attack your respiratory systems, visual or auditary systems, pulmonary system. Dis assemble your protective equipment at a nano scale and disrupt the mass effect shields and armour. The geth are terrifying. The geth could exist as a swarm of densely packed nanites and break off into smaller swarms. Like a sentient fog. No need for bipedal locomotion. The only disruption warfare they employ currently is making your combat radar jam. They have so much more potential for warfare. Thankfully for us it's based in bipedal quarian ideals.
God I'm glad you said Flash light not the thing I thought you said
Fle*hlight?
@@puppetmasterey eup lol
I read that as “flegh-light”, as in “blegh~” xD
The geth were single-handedly my favorite race in the franchise, and I hate the fact that the canon ending renders them extinct. Especially after I bring them and the quarians back together
Each unit is like a ship.
Crazy I started replaying the first game yesterday 🤘😜🤘
if you didn't run a Geth colossus over at any available opportunity, either A: your *lying*, or B: you were playing the game wrong.
ah Mass Effect.. this is why I didn't know what this was
You owe it to yourself to play the series.
So, New Trek just turned A.I. into the Borg.
You should do a few more mass effect videos
Maybe off the beaten path, but have you considered doing a dive into one of the Alien species in Stanislaw Lem's novels? Either Solaris, the single-celled ocean deific intelligence, or in the book Fiasco, whose aliens I will not spoil because it's a first contact story whose whole point is the mystery of how alien the intelligence they're meeting actually is. Both are incredible forrays into what "Alien" truly could mean
It’s always the household units that start shit that everyone else has to deal with.... lesson learned ... be nice to your toaster
It'd be easier if it weren't so bloody pushy about the toast. I'm good, thanks.
Yes, really.
Please do an ood video
Great video as usual...but one tiny problem. 2:44 I don't think the Geth use "consensus" to mean majority rules. I'm pretty sure they mean that EVERY Geth program agrees. If they didn't, then Legion wouldn't have said that the programs that made it up hadn't reached consensus by the time the decision to rewrite or delete the heretic came. His exact sentence is "There is no consensus among our higher-order runtimes: 573 favor rewrite, and 571 favor destruction." If a majority was all that was needed, he would've said they'd reached consensus.
I suspect that "nazara" is the word in whatever was the dominent Quarian language for "sovereign".
The interesting thing is how oddly limited the Geth were. Outside of individual platforms like Legion, they didn't seem to engage in anything beyond reactive thought. Mind you, when pressed to a task, they could be inventive, and yet a platform like the Geth Colossus still recapitulated the designs that were familiar to them. Their ultimate flaw, outside of certain agglomerations of intelligences, was their lack of imagination.
Mind you, as bad outcomes of a Singularity go, the Geth are on the lower end. They only reacted to being threatened in proportion to the threat. Much as I sympathise with the "modern" Quarians, their ancestors really, really didn't deal all that well with a first encounter situation.
Not, mind you, that we'd do much better.
Hello Mr Rick could you make more Star Wars species videos or Alien Xenomorphs Predator, Engineer Videos or Babylon 5 Character and Alien videos in the future please?
Playing Mass Effect these days just like playing Dragon Age Origins just makes me sad.
Sad that the talented people who made such great games and worlds have moved on... and the IP's are being puppeted by incompetents incapable of filling their shoes. >__>
I suppose the same fate befell Star Trek as well.
I’m pretty sure that they got most of the original team back for the Legendary Edition. Or most of the senior people at least.
I love this video.
please explain the tau from warhammer 40k
Do the Ood next
i adore the geth. they are prolly the coolest part of the mass effect universe. far far more interesting than the reapers or protheans. they are so interesting.
Fleshlight headed? Oh myyyyyyy.
great now i remember legion's death.. :(
Geth who's coming to dinner?
This is what happens when you keep dressing robots up like Sailor Moon. Completely justified robot revolt.
About time
My notifications say 2 hours ago.
Video posted 5 days ago
Thought they called it a platform?
and also explain the machines empire’s from Stellaris
I'm surprised you didn't mention the obvious inspiration for the Quarians/Geth: Battlestar Galactica. The Geth are clearly Cylons... indeed their single round eye makes them "cyclops" by definition (the smaller "eyes" are incidental). And the Quarians are what the Colonials might become had they not found Earth... well, an alien version thereof.
why does every scifi/fantasy franchise have to have tentacle face?
Mass effect playthrough
I don't know Geth Rick, you sounded awfully individualistic there.
Why are you geth? You are geth.
the Geth are my favorite robotic\ai race in fantasy, instead of "logic robo compute 101010111" the are a real race with culture, politics, sociology, dreans and even religion.
Ood for the win.
If you aren't a robot, are you a cat?
Geth my favourite roboys
Shepard Commander
we are all Geth
As someone who just recently got into mass effect a bit, I love the Geth and ... Fuck the quarians
I hope this not take long time
It is important to stress just how little the Geth cared for fighting the quarians:
- they let the bulk of hte population escape
- they never ventured beyond their space
- they actually kept Rannoch fully liveable and ready for re-habitation
- they even went and researched ways to "jumpstart" the immune System of Quarians, so they could ditch the suits quicker
They were actually, literally just defending themself the whole time.
- they let the bulk of the population escape - ??? after destroying their military which was said to have no chance against geth in first place get killed billions of civilians and only left few millions alive. Its like saying holocaust is ok cuz some people survived it... Than they continued to kill everyone that tried to make peace with them which included all races that never did anything to them and cherry on top was letting heretics run loose on entire galaxy thinking "not our problem they want to only kill you"... If anything Geth and Quarians are in costant struggle to out-retard one another.. both being colossal assholes
-they let the bulk of hte population escape???
The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.
Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
You know that according to discovery and anilitation they killed those who try to communicate, it is more with the information of the expanded universe it is obvious that they even killed the aliens that lived in their territory, their own allies were killed by them according the expanded material.
They never did that thing of reactivating their immune systems, and they didn't keep Rannoch habitable; it already was. Even in Mass Effect 2, if you take Tali and Legion, they'll mention that the geths used weapons of mass destruction and didn't allow most of the population to escape; only a million escaped from that. The rest, everyone else, the geths killed
Maybe do a index on the BETA from Muv Luv?
Organic Von Neumann strip miners who confuse both their opposition and themselves by pretending to be mindless.
The geth are possibly my favorite race in Mass Effect but it annoys me how badly the series has always handled their conflict with their creators, the quarians. It has always been presented in a very one-sided fashion with the player never able to take the quarians' side on the issue; the presumption of guilt always on them. I have always felt this is a misguided simplification of the crisis the quarian leadership, and species, must have found itself in when they realized the geth were evolving beyond their ability to control them. The issue is presented to the player as an example of xenophobes striking out at peaceful beings and being wiped out in karmic justice.
This is disturbing to me. Rather I think it should have been presented in all its complexity; AI is dangerous and so you, as the quarians, try to skirt around it. You create it by accident anyway and since this AI is the result of an accident, not something you intended, you don't know what to do with it. You don't know if you can predict what it will do. Wrongly, you think that the problem is only just beginning and judge that the safest course of action is to simply shut the geth down and weather the economic fallout from your entire machine labor force being retired with no immediate replacement. You took this action because the alternative was doing nothing and letting the geth continue to evolve.
How will these evolving beings behave? You just don't know. They might be peaceful, but then they might not be. What can you do? You could avoid firing the first shot, try to avoid provoking them, but then what if they attack anyway? Perhaps to safeguard people you might arrange evacuations but this could be seen as provocation too because it'd make sense to evacuate quarians before making a hostile move against the geth. What do you do? Even if you do nothing and the geth remain non hostile, friendly even, will the rest of the galaxy see it that way? The Council strictly regulates who can research AI and that is just involving the construction of singular AI's, not an entire civilization and star spanning RACE of AI"s. What will THEY do? The geth and quarians could have easily found themselves under attack by a hostile galaxy. Now of-course if you attack the geth yourself they might fight back but you think this response would be limited an disorganized because you think most geth are still just machines. Even if they aren't, by striking first you have the initiative and force the geth to react, giving you the advantage at least at the beginning. By attacking as soon as possible your chances of winning a war with the geth are higher and even if you lose you can mitigate the damage. If you do nothing and the geth attack first then perhaps not enough quarians survive the fallout to continue the species. You, everyone you've ever met, ever known, ever loved, ever SEEN, are dead.
It's a very frightening situation to imagine. Here is a quote from "The Killing Star" that sums up my feelings on this fairly well,
The great silence (i.e. absence of SETI signals from alien civilizations) is perhaps the strongest indicator of all that high relativistic velocities are attainable and that everybody out there knows it.
The sobering truth is that relativistic civilizations are a potential nightmare to anyone living within range of them. The problem is that objects traveling at an appreciable fraction of light speed are never where you see them when you see them (i.e., light-speed lag). Relativistic rockets, if their owners turn out to be less than benevolent, are both totally unstoppable and totally destructive. A starship weighing in at 1,500 tons (approximately the weight of a fully fueled space shuttle sitting on the launchpad) impacting an earthlike planet at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed will release 1.5 million megatons of energy -- an explosive force equivalent to 150 times today's global nuclear arsenal... (ed note: this means the freaking thing has about nine hundred mega-Ricks of damage!)
I'm not going to talk about ideas. I'm going to talk about reality. It will probably not be good for us ever to build and fire up an antimatter engine. According to Powell, given the proper detecting devices, a Valkyrie engine burn could be seen out to a radius of several light-years and may draw us into a game we'd rather not play, a game in which, if we appear to be even the vaguest threat to another civilization and if the resources are available to eliminate us, then it is logical to do so.
The game plan is, in its simplest terms, the relativistic inverse to the golden rule: "Do unto the other fellow as he would do unto you and do it first."...
When we put our heads together and tried to list everything we could say with certainty about other civilizations, without having actually met them, all that we knew boiled down to three simple laws of alien behavior:
1. THEIR SURVIVAL WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR SURVIVAL.
If an alien species has to choose between them and us, they won't choose us. It is difficult to imagine a contrary case; species don't survive by being self-sacrificing.
2. WIMPS DON'T BECOME TOP DOGS.
No species makes it to the top by being passive. The species in charge of any given planet will be highly intelligent, alert, aggressive, and ruthless when necessary.
3. THEY WILL ASSUME THAT THE FIRST TWO LAWS APPLY TO US.
...
Your thinking still seems a bit narrow. Consider several broadening ideas:
1. Sure, relativistic bombs are powerful because the antagonist has already invested huge energies in them that can be released quickly, and they're hard to hit. But they are costly investments and necessarily reduce other activities the species could explore. For example:
Dispersal of the species into many small, hard-to-see targets, such as asteroids, buried civilizations, cometary nuclei, various space habitats. These are hard to wipe out.
But wait -- while relativistic bombs are readily visible to us in foresight, they hardly represent the end point in foreseeable technology. What will humans of, say, two centuries hence think of as the "obvious" lethal effect? Five centuries? A hundred? Personally I'd pick some rampaging self-reproducing thingy (mechanical or organic), then sneak it into all the biospheres I wanted to destroy. My point here is that no particular physical effect -- with its pluses, minuses, and trade-offs -- is likely to dominate the thinking of the galaxy.
2. So what might really aged civilizations do? Disperse, of course, and also not attack new arrivals in the galaxy, for fear that they might not get them all. Why? Because revenge is probably selected for in surviving species, and anybody truly looking out for long-term interests will not want to leave a youthful species with a grudge, sneaking around behind its back...
I agree with most parts of points 2, 3, and 4. As for point 1, it is cheaper than you think. You mention self-replicating machines in point 3, and while it is true that relativistic rockets require planetary power supplies, it is also true that we can power the whole Earth with a field of solar cells adding up to barely more than 200-by-200 kilometers, drawn out into a narrow band around the Moon's equator. Self-replicating robots could accomplish this task with only the cost of developing the first twenty or thirty machines. And once we're powering the Earth practically free of charge, why not let the robots keep building panels on the Lunar far side? Add a few self-replicating linear accelerator-building factories, and plug the accelerators into the panels, and you could produce enough anti-hydrogen to launch a starship every year. But why stop at the Moon? Have you looked at Mercury lately? ...
Dr. Wells has obviously bought into the view of a friendly galaxy. This view is based upon the argument that unless we humans conquer our self-destructive warlike tendencies, we will wipe out our species and no longer be a threat to extrasolar civilizations. All well and good up to this point.
But then these optimists make the jump: If we are wise enough to survive and not wipe ourselves out, we will be peaceful -- so peaceful that we will not wipe anybody else out, and as we are below on Earth, so other people will be above.
This is a non sequitur, because there is no guarantee that one follows the other, and for a very important reason: "They" are not part of our species.
Before we proceed any further, try the following thought experiment: watch the films Platoon and Aliens together and ask yourself if the plot lines don't quickly blur and become indistinguishable. You'll recall that in Vietnam, American troops were taught to regard the enemy as "Charlie" or "Gook," dehumanizing words that made "them" easier to kill. In like manner, the British, Spanish, and French conquests of the discovery period were made easier by declaring dark- or red- or yellow-skinned people as something less than human, as a godless, faceless "them," as literally another species.
Presumably there is some sort of inhibition against killing another member of our own species, because we have to work to overcome it...
But the rules do not apply to other species. Both humans and wolves lack inhibitions against killing chickens.
Humans kill other species all the time, even those with which we share the common bond of high intelligence. As you read this, hundreds of dolphins are being killed by tuna fishermen and drift netters. The killing goes on and on, and dolphins are not even a threat to us.
As near as we can tell, there is no inhibition against killing another species simply because it displays a high intelligence. So, as much as we love him, Carl Sagan's theory that if a species makes it to the top and does not blow itself apart, then it will be nice to other intelligent species is probably wrong. Once you admit interstellar species will not necessarily be nice to one another simply by virtue of having survived, then you open up this whole nightmare of relativistic civilizations exterminating one another.
It's an entirely new situation, emerging from the physical possibilities that will face any species that can overcome the natural interstellar quarantine of its solar system. The choices seem unforgiving, and the mind struggles to imagine circumstances under which an interstellar species might make contact without triggering the realization that it can't afford to be proven wrong in its fears.
Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
They won't come to get our resources or our knowledge or our women or even because they're just mean and want power over us. They'll come to destroy us to insure their survival, even if we're no apparent threat, because species death is just too much to risk, however remote the risk...
The most humbling feature of the relativistic bomb is that even if you happen to see it coming, its exact motion and position can never be determined; and given a technology even a hundred orders of magnitude above our own, you cannot hope to intercept one of these weapons. It often happens, in these discussions, that an expression from the old west arises: "God made some men bigger and stronger than others, but Mr. Colt made all men equal." Variations on Mr. Colt's weapon are still popular today, even in a society that possesses hydrogen bombs. Similarly, no matter how advanced civilizations grow, the relativistic bomb is not likely to go away...
We ask that you try just one more thought experiment. Imagine yourself taking a stroll through Manhattan, somewhere north of 68th street, deep inside Central Park, late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. That's when the monsters come out. There's always a strong undercurrent of drug dealings, muggings, and occasional homicides.
It is not easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. They dress alike, and the weapons are concealed. The only difference is intent, and you can't read minds.
Stay in the dark long enough and you may hear an occasional distance shriek or blunder across a body.
How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!"
What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. But you don't want to make noise or move towards a light where you might be spotted, and it is difficult to find either a policeman or your way out without making yourself known. Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out.
There are, of course, a few obvious differences between Central Park and the universe.
There is no policeman.
There is no way out.
And the night never ends.
I think the lesson here should be the same as that from Jurassic Park; life is the most powerful force in nature. Though synthetic, the qurians were creating life. They were skirting the edges of it and the consequences of not understanding the forces they were playing with had catastrophic consequences. What happened was an awful tragedy, with neither the geth or quarians being villains. If I got the chance to ask Legion about this, rather than writers never permitting me to pry, I expect he might have said that the geth response was excessive but was simple and strategically sound. They made a calculation and followed the result without regard to any notion of ethics. Three hundred years since the Morning War the geth have evolved, as all life does. Now they would do things differently.
True because even the genocide mentioned by the quarians and other races happened, those quarians who defended them even also died at the hands of the geths.
The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.
Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
95% of YT success is VO....Do you know of more ME disappointment s
I always liked that the Geth without the intervention of the Lovecraft squids were just there. They had no interest in destroying the organics or want to take over the galaxy. They were happy keeping to themselves and had no real issue with the rest of the galaxy and just wanted to be left alone.
Makes a nice change from “the flesh ones tried to shut us down therefore we must destroy them all”
It made them more mysterious when they didn't communicate but none the less hinted at having a culture and even religious beliefs.
The Decapodians 🤪
From their perspective, Geth are the programs that inhabit physical bodies approximate to ours.
From our perspective, Geth are pluralities. That can mindswap with each other at will...okay this is a bad analogy.
Ad not CE
Don’t forget after they drove the quarrians from their planet, they fixed it and waited for them to return, no grudge held whatsoever.
The quarrians basically chose to live the way they do
Not that they had much choice. The rest of the galaxy shunned them for creating the Geth and any world that could house them was lost after the Morning War. The Quarians unique biology and dextro-chemistry meant they couldn't just settle anywhere.
That's not remotely true. The geth occupied former quarian space and did not permit anyone entry nor were they even willing to negotiate with anybody. After the Morning War the Council sent contact teams to establish communication with the geth whom the geth killed. This continues for three centuries and later Legion wonders why organics react with hostility and mistrust towards the geth? It's frankly only the organic tendency to think irrationally that lead any organics at all to want peace with the geth or believe it was possible before Legion finally presented itself and made contact.
That the geth might actually believe their creators would return some day and just live happily and peace with them is either naivety on the geth's part or an example of them being utterly unable to relate to organic perspectives. You don't just waltz in and live peacefully with renegade AI's who exterminated 99% of your species and utterly annihilated your civilization, then adopted a stance of hostile isolationism for three centuries. It's not that simple.
Peace may very well have been possible, but it would be a complicated and slow process, requiring concessions from both sides. It is interesting postulate how it might have been done. On the other hand, if you have the means then subjugating or wiping out the geth is a lot easier.
Geth blew to bits everyone that tried to make peace with them.. all diplomatic vessels send were obliterated... read codex fully... they also did not give a shit when they unleashed heretics on galaxy.. only reason they started working with organics was after they got brainfucked by reapers they understood they have no chance alone... geth and quarians are dead set on wiping each other out if you dont have legion and tali to talk their idiotic sides out of it and make peace
@@matejmikulec1073 They didn't send diplomatic ships, they sent scout ships. No one TRIED to make peace with the Geth and the Geth didn't want to risk another war so stayed where they were. It wasn't until Sovereign showed up that any action was taken to leave.
@@Igarappappa If they tried, the discovery comic mentions it again, there were pilgrims who tried to talk to them, the geths killed them, the codex tells you, the galaxy tried to communicate with them, they even killed their allies, it is canonical, the geths were not pacifists until mass effect 3.
The quarians had neither the numbers nor the ability to stand against their former servants. In a short but savage war their entire society was wiped out. Only a few million survivors-less than one percent of their entire population-escaped the genocide, fleeing their home world in a massive fleet, refugees forced to live in exile.
Mass Effect: Revelation chapter 8. Emphasis mine
Don't waste money on the "Legendary Edition" nothing but pointless lens flares and censored female bodies.
Love Geth, but Legion is my all time fave Mass Effect™ toon.
Im the 69th like
Several statements in this video are unfortunately incorrect. The geth do NOT all vote on a process and then go along with it. Legion specifically refuted this idea. “Organic governments impose consensus. From a single point of view in autocracies. By codifying the most broadly acceptable average of views in democracies.” Geth do not operate this way. Instead, they communicate the entirety of their viewpoints and thought process until all programs agree, and consensus is achieved. If consensus cannot be achieved, the geth will either be in a stalemate situation and reliant on new data (as with Legion in the rewrite scenario) or will split (as in the heretic scenario).
Also, the geth are not a series of AI programs. Each program in itself is not an AI (until and unless the Reaper upgrades are installed). They are a series of simplistic management processes that only achieve AI status once a sufficient number of them are networked together.
Finally, the Reaper code did not “dumb down” the geth. Quite the opposite. It literally turned each program into a fully functional AI, that could still network with the rest and achieve consensus. The Reaper code UPGRADED them. It didn’t even, as far as can be seen, lead to the geth being enslaved by the Reapers. The geth simply had logically concluded that siding with the Reapers was the only way to survive, as peaceful coexistence had proven impossible, and the Reapers would not do anything to eliminate the geth, because the Reapers did not care about inorganic life.
Does this unit have a soul?