Sir, I can lead you to "Horus" if it would please you. I am but a humble bearer of the word who wishes the demise of Horus and his bastard sons... Wait, why are you looking at me like that?
"Its too late Dad ,I have alredy depicted you as a soyjack and myself as a chad, that means that am right and you are wrong." -Lorgar after worshiping chaos
@@JohnDoe-xv9du are you referring to malcador? Cause while lorgar may be a whimp malcador isn’t exactly mortal the dudes 8000 years old and the strongest normal human pysker
Fun fact: The quote "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time." is actually spoken by Argel Tal to Lorgar who liked it so much that he wrote it into his other book (the one about worshipping Chaos) and it ended up being attributed to Lorgar.
To be fair they are not wrong. All too many demons received worship based on the theory it is easier to placate then stop them. And more than a few became popular enough to become actual gods. Take Pazuzu for example. He is the demon of the West wind and pestilence. But you could bribe him to keep his antics to a minimum. Also his ex, Lamatsu, would eat babies and stuff. But she feared him. So guess who enjoyed worship as a form of bribery to both stay civil and act as a body guard against his ex?
@@AnimeManiacAndres but you’re saying that from a human, sane person perspective. From a Khorne worshipper’s perspective the being doing that is probably an Angel. It’s similar to the Space Marines: if your brain runs on Imperial Propaganda logic you could watch an Ultramarine butcher an entire innocent Xenos family (or even innocent human family) and still call him one of the Emperor’s “Angels” with not a shred of logical dissonance.
The best word to describe Lorgar is Mercurial. Guilliman said, "He is so...changeable. He is so prone to extremes. Eager to please, so quick to take offence. He's so keen to be your best friend, and then, at the slightest hint of an insult, he's angry with you. Furious. Offended. Like a child."
I've always loved the fact that Lorgar is described as actually looking like the Emperor's Son. The First Heretic, the true Chosen of Chaos, and he bears the God Emperor's own face.
@@Redx6504 I think it's more akin to the golden glow and psychic projection the emperor displays. What people see is different than his true form. I believe it was Corvax that is first noted to have seem through the facade. It's detailed in their first meeting that everyone sees "the emperor" but Corvax sees a man until big E turns it up.
I mean can one be “the true chosen of chaos” the first yeah because he is the one who went looking, he was the easiest of the Primarchs to convert as well being predisposed to it, he was raised from birth in a place were religion was predominant and also the religion happened to be about the chaos gods, he just had everything he believed destroyed he was humiliated by his father and his city destroyed, he had a chaos convert speaking in his ear so yeah he would obviously be the first. But the true chosen of chaos is in itself kinda of an impossible title by definition, as when someone stronger and with more potential comes along he will become the “true chosen” and the former “true chosen” will be cast aside as it happened to him when Horus was corrupted and then he became the true champion of chaos undivided and Lorgar was pushed aside. No longer being chaos favourite bad boy. And that’s a cycle that’s forever doomed to repeat itself it’s in chaos nature
It’s a fun parallel that the two rival legions, the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers, both have books that are regarded as sacrosanct, both containing the words of their respective Primarchs, yet wildly different in message. A very interesting set of parallels.
This is why The first Heretic and Know no fear are artistically brilliant sister novels. One is intersected with scripture, the other with quotes from a war manual
@@dishantdalvi , yeah they suck so bad we have to forget they had the largest chapters. Or the fact that Gilliman had the largest collection of worlds before the Emperor found him. That his record was so good that Horus believed he would never follow orders and could rival him as the warmaster. That Horus sent not 1 but 2 chapters to distract Gilliman so Gilliman could not insure Big E won. Nevermind Lorgar creating a warp storm large enough to block out the light of terra or turning his brother into a demon prince, you know the thing that th chaos gods do... Yeah Lorgar did it alone. Lorgar sucks so hard that even in loss he still made the Emperor a god....
TONITE ON HERETIC GEAR:Bricky converts a hive world into a chaos cult, DK gets executed by the inquisition and Shy gets possessed by the powers of Mork and Gork
Korioth is named High Marshall of the Scarus Sector and charged with restoring Imperial Order And is subsequently charged with Misappropriating Resources, due to Him having several shipments of Tanks and Knighys delivered to His house, to begin His Collection
Yeah he also set a step by step plan to greatly improve the capacities of the planet to the highest standards (Ultramar) which made every planet feel like Ultramar Much to the chagrin of some sectors of the Imperium
Kor Phaeron is the luckiest character in 40k. He found the *only* Primarch who would put up with his bullshit. Alpharius or Omegon would have allowed him to live for a while just to fuck with him more, but any other Primarch would have beaten him into a bloody pudding the moment he showed up.
yeah it's almost like how primarchs are raised as a child matters. Alpharius was raised by the Emperor, so yeah, he just kinda would do and believe whatever he says
now i want a novel (or probably just a short story) of kor phaeron trying to raise rogal dorn or perturabo. "now now perty, before we can construct a fortress we need to do our prayers" "your gods are cringe father" *beats him up and builds a fortress without saying prayers*
"He's shown more compassion than other primarchs, besides maybe Magnus..." Flashbacks to Magnus watching his people die, only to act just before his libraries are burned...
Honestly the most hilariously interesting story I've heard on Lorgar is when he discovers a cult worshipping the Emperor in Ultramar and gets the very words he used to preach, preached right back at him. And Lorgar realizes what the Imperium is turning into and decides to have his own personal war against what is going to become the Imperial Creed, and finds it hilariously ironic that the cult existed under Guilliman's nose.
Fun facts about Lorgar Aurelian's name and his title (The Urizen): Lorgar is Colchisian for 'The Rain-Caller'. In the real world, Logar (with one 'r') is the name of a province in Afghanistan that, during the Soviet-Afghan War in the early 1980s was known as 'The Gates of Jihad' due to how much conflict the region saw. It was so bad that a journalist who visited the province wrote that 'Everywhere in the Logar Province, the most common sight except for ruins are graves.'. Aurelian a.k.a. The Golden is the name of a Roman Emperor who is known for his many victories. However, what he is also known for is that he raised the very minor cult of the sun god Sol Invictus to such prominence that it became the official religion of Roman Empire for a time. Urizen, which is Colchisian word for Wisest of the Wise is the name of a being described as the embodiment of conventional law and reason in the original mythos made by a British poet William Blake in the 18th century. William Blake was a romanticist and as such, the being Urizen is his mythos' equivalent of the Demiurge/Jaldabaoth of Gnosticism. Urizen is a rather cruel being who believed himself to be the god of the universe and is the embodiment of both religious dogmatism (Urizen IS the law) and Enlightenment rationalism (Urizen introduced uniformity to the world), both of which William Blake opposed. (Additional fun fact: the word 'Enlightenment' written here refers to the Age of Enlightenment, a movement back in 17th and 18th century in the western world that champions reason, science and intellect as the way forward for humanity. William Blake was very much against this movement, what it stood for, its exalted figures (like Isaac Newton, look up his painting depicting Newton) and its proponents.) There's a reason GW used these names for the First Traitor Primarch.
Big E to the Ad Mech: I am totally a god and you may worship me as the Omnisiah! Lorgar: Oh can I also do that? Big E: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Lorgar honestly sometimes feel like the "final boss" of the daemon Primarchs. He was worshipping the chaos gods from the very start, he and Erebus was the ones that started the Horus heresy, he is the main reason why the imperium has become so fanatical, unlike all the other daemon primarchs that had their own goals/motivations Lorgar was always about serving the gods and he is the only one that serve and have the blessing of ALL the chaos gods. If 40k ever have an "Everchosen" like Archeon from fantasy i feel Lorgar is a FAR better fit than Abbadon. No matter how hard GW tries to make Abbadon the "final boss" of 40k he will always feel more like the miniboss before the true bosses that are the daemon primarchs.
In the Dornian Heresy Lorgar and the Word Bearers basically become the Black Templars Mixed with the Sisters Of battle. (They look cooler then they do in Canon).
Tonite on Ridiculous Gear: Bricky burns down monarchia using his shiny forehead. DK becomes Eresus as he convinces Lorgar to become a Vtuber and Shy becomes The Blessed Little Shy.
The story of corax doorbell ditched lorgar implies that he has "unlocked" powers by accepting what he and the primarchs are, so it might be that the form taken by corax is just what he actually is in regards to the warp magic that Emps used to make them. This is also implied by some spacewolf books in the heresy, the reason that Russ hates emps spear is because it shows him the truth. The truth about what he and the primarchs are is horrifying to Russ. So that monster might just be what Corax actually is, or the principle components that made him Corax.
There's an interesting theory that states that each of the primarchs souls are crafted from daemons or lesser warp gods. which would explain why the perfect clone of horus was still nowhere near as strong as he was, because it was just a super-level body, not a super-level body piloted and reinforced by a lesser chaos god. There's a white angel and a red demon made of blood who've been fighting in the warp, apparently forever, and that's where all the souls of the blood angels go. The spirits/daemons of Fenris, genuinely answer and obey when Russ orders them.
@@riven5677 Then why does Corvus Corax begin to turn into a crow, referring to it as him "reverting" to a more natural state. Why do the primarchs have powers so specific to each one? The "lesser gods" theory makes plenty of sense viewed in that light. Russ holds authority over the spirits of Fenris because he likely was a powerful spirit himself. Sanguinious has a noble side and a horrifying bloodthirsty demon side. Corvus Corax's ability to slip into other dimensions and go completely unseen makes much more sense if he was made from a crow of the warp, one who hid from larger things by slipping into spaces between.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 yeah you make a point. I got a question though if the theory is right how did the emperor managed to rein in and all those spirits loyal(before they found out about chaos) I know there are warp entities who are not aligned to chaos and not super evil but I’m just curious
@@riven5677 Well, a couple things: 1, the Emperor did actually make a deal with the chaos gods, so the entities don't necessarily need to not be chaos. 2, the Emps is a super-duper psyker, and a peer to the chaos gods. He can clap most greater demons with almost 0 effort, and remolding them is just a few steps removed from that.
Colchis’s inspiration was Ancient Sumerian culture - with living in the desert and having people live by the rovers (like the Tigris and Euphrates) - even down to Lorgar having Cuneiform-type writing on his body.
You know that scene in Warriors where that one guy is clinking empty beer bottles at the gang while saying “Warriors, come out to play~”, imagine Corvus is doing that to Lorgar while he’s in his tower. But the beer bottles are just Word Bearer helmets that he’s clinking together for the past nine thousand years outside Lorgar’s tower.
I remember in the audiodrama "The Sigillite", Malcador was lamenting Lorgar's fall, saying that they "could've handled him more gently. He was so fragile..." It made me sad That being said, a childhood full of abuse will do that to a person. Make them mercurial. CPTSD-ish. The Primarchs were immune to all this shit except mental illness.
I am convinced that other than horus, all the traitor primarchs ended up the way they did cause emps sucks either bieng directly a shit head to them (agronomy and mortality for instance) or sucks at handling mental illnesses (Perterabo for instance is BLATANTLY autistic.)
I was about to make a joke about Lorgar having borderline personality disorder in response but then I realized if you substitute "favorite person" (I don't know if thats an actual scientific thing or an internet invention) with gods to worship, it actually kinda makes sense....
Lorgar "I will not be silenced because you do not like the melody of one single word. In your grip, a thousand worlds turn! By your will, a million vessels sail the void. You are immortal, undying, seeing all and knowing all that transpires across creation. Father, you are a god in all but name. All that remains is to confess to it." He wasn't wrong. I get what big E was trying to do but Lorgar was right. In denying his true state big E allowed him self to become that which he hated.
@@PodreyJenkin138 , only he was. He is not a mortal. That is clear by his deeds before he was placed in the golden throne . He is something far greater, again immortal and undying. no the high lords do not compare to the emperor. It's is not Thier will that shine like a beacon in the warp providing light to the ships. They don't have the means with in them selves to bind entire planets or create new forms of life. They can not stand directly against the chaos gods and make them fear a direct confrontation. They did not create the primarchs nor do they have the ability to bend them to Thier will. The emperor can, is and has done all these things and more. The Emperor is as far beyond a mortal as humans are to ants. The only creatures that comes close to what the emperor has achieved are chaos gods and the beings that screwed over the necrons.
@@PodreyJenkin138 , he grants his powers to other. He resurrects the dead and empowers his followers. He has saints even before he is placed on the throne. There are actual miracles that are performed in his name not by psychers but people that have great faith. Those that believe in him are protected from chaos, again we see this even before he is on the throne in the horus heresy. Sure one could argue that even the chaos gods and elder gods are not true gods but if we attribute some level of divinity to those entities than the emperor has not only matched them but has proven he is beyond them. Even the orcs gods have less impact than the emperor does. The real test is however is do you believe the imperial truth, he actually explains it in the Horus heresy when he calls the chaos gods "warp xenos" he refuses to acknowledge their divinity, but acknowledges thier power. Read the last church. If you subscribe to the line of reason the emperor's putting forth and I can truly understand that you would not believe he is a God but again that would mean that the orc gods are not gods and the elder gods are not gods and the chaos gods are not gods. At the end of the day what part of godhood has he not achieved?
@@PodreyJenkin138 it really is. You have the right idea btw. What is a god? How do you define such an term in 40k? What is the definition in 40k? I do know based on published work that the emperor was no mortal and has ascended into something very different with his time on the throne.
I think colchis is actually more based around Mesopotamia especially since they live near rivers, use mub bricks for structures and have a ruling priest class. In fact lorgar is very similar to the early Mesopotamian kings who eventually would take power from the priest class and would believe they were favored by the gods of their city states.
Extra fact for people: In Mythology Jason and the Argonauts travel to Colchis to get the Golden Fleece. Medea is also the daughter of the King of Colchis.
@@gimme0cookies the capital city is the real give away, they call it the city of grey flowers as they cultivated a rare flower within the city. It gives the vibe of the hanging gardens of Babylon.
Just to clarify the situation going on with Corvus Corax. He awakened the powers of his Primarch soul. Doing so caused him to shed his mortal form. He didn't become a daemon persay. More like an entity fueled by Warp stuff independent from any God.
Proving yet again that Corvus is the ultimate fuck you to every chaos primarch. Imagine selling (or being tricked into selling) you soul to a vile god for power only to have your brother get the same power while keeping his soul.
Yeah that was basically the Emperor sick of Lorgar's shit at that point. He had probably already made up his mind that Lorgar was one of the primarchs that Chaos would get
"Lorgar, I want you to stop calling me a god. And to make my point I will take my golden host, smite your holy city from the skies and make you and your entire Legion prostrate yourselves with my mere presence." - The definitely not God Emperor of Manking
The term of "Emperor" have the root word of "Empyrean" which meant to be of "Highest Celestial Heaven/Sky" in Religious manner, so yeah even "Imperial Truth" and pre-heresy "Imperium of Man" is still utilising Religious term and iconography despite being "secular"/antitheistic
“If you absolutely religiously worship someone, do the opposite of what they want and then act like a baby bitch when they get mad and hate you for it” lorgar probably
Lorgar: Father, you bless me with your presence. Emperor: Lorgar, for the last time. I'm not a god (Just someone with power close to gods). Lorgar: Well, if it looks like a god, speaks like a god and act like a god, than you must be god (With all the golden armor and all).
@@TheNaturalnuke>The psychic towering big human with golden armor and a big ‘iron halo’: “I am not a god, my son.” Lorgar Aurelian: “I am getting very mixed signals here.”
You forgot to mention that after lorgar came back from the pilgrimage, they continued the crusades despite them turning to chaos (they basically did this as a ruse), and ironically, they ended up conquering planets at an alarming rate (possibly the fastest legion).
I believe that the Theatre that Lorgar and Fulgrim go too is the Theatre where the Emperors Children first encounter daemons of Slannesh in the book “Fulgrim”. It’s a pretty interesting scene in the book. And at the book ends with Fulgrim in the same theatre, looking at the gross painting of “himself”
@@Wakefar it was a literal murder orgy with cacophonous, heinous music and space Marines going nuts in simultaneous pain and pleasure, daemonettes of Slannesh possessing the bodies of the musicians, all the while Fulgrim is sitting in the nosebleeds of the theatre just mesmerized.
@@nadussias just trying to remember something, but was the painting called "The Image of Perfection" and wasn't the whole performance its grand reveal?
Lorgar flipping back and forth on his emotions is something also mentioned in Know No Fear because at one point while talking to Guiliman Lorgar goes from calm to pissed to calm very fast when Guiliman mentions that his tech-priests found a virus because Lorgar claims that Guiliman is blaming him. He even goes into a sermon to his sons about how untrustworthy the Ultramarines are till Guiliman comments that he wasn't blaming Lorgar and only wanted to mention it incase something infected his systems. That book is also amazing to me because at one point its literally rains Baneblades onto Ultramarines.
_"If Lorgar had our sponsor, KEEPS, Lorgar would no longer be evil."_ ... Ah yes, the ultimate weapon against the forces of the Warp, _ANTI-BALDING CREAM._ ... Based.
Lorgar had so much potential to be one of the greatest primarchs, but unfortunately, he was found by Kor Phaeron, and trusted Erebus. Also, Lorgar had a point in seeing big E as a god. The man walks around in golden armour, with a shining face of many visages, and performs miracles without breaking a sweat. How would people not see him as a god?
It’s part of the evidence for a theory running around that on some level E had to have known their would inevitably worship him. He has many faces and the one we know is likely not even his real one and THATS what he decided people should see him as. No way he didn’t know
To quote TTS: “ LOOK. JUST BECAUSE I WANT TO WEAR ORNATE GOLD ARMOUR, WIELD A FIERY SWORD, EMIT A GLOW PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME, AND OTHER THINGS OF THAT NATURE DOESN’T MEAN I WANT TO BE LOOKED UPON AS A GOD. I’M NOT THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT NOT TO DRESS LIKE A GOD. YOU’RE THE ONES WHO NEED TO BE FUCKING TAUGHT THAT CONSIDERING PEOPLE TO BE GODS DEPENDANT ON HOW THEY LOOK IS WRONG”
The theatre is a Slaanesh thing. People are brought there, or arrive willingly, and the show begins. Acts that are terrifying to normal people but very tame to followers at first. But then they rapidly get more and more disturbing. This could go on for days or even weeks at a time as terror gives way to excitement and eventually pleasure for some, while others mentally break. Baldermort has a great story about this in the beginning of his video on the grey knights.
Some fun facts about Blood Ravens: - Planet of the system they recruit from is called Aurelia (Lorgar *Aurelian* ) - Another one is called like Blessed Lady of the Word Bearers: Cyrene - Eliphas of Word Bearers called Blood Ravens brothers, while marines from different legions called each other "cousin" - Word Bearers fought on Kronus during Horus Heresy - Blood Ravens found relics of their chapter there, that were later destroyed by cpt. Davian Thule who found them too be damning and swore silence. - Ravens seek "truth" about their primarch almost fanatically and focus on the emperor more than other chapters. - They are gifted with warp powers - Magnus and Lorgar were both powerful psykers (and afaik Lorgar was mainly into divinitation which is strong side of Blood Ravens psykers) - "Knowledge is power" is quote of Erebus (but also many other characters so it's not that indicating, but it's there) - There is at least one loyal Word Bearer in 40k "The Anchorite" that can manifest psychic powers like light of the Emperor to shitstomp demons - Blood Ravens in DoW II fell mainly to Khorne and Nurgle there was no indication of Tzeentch showing any interest in them - It was hinted that Blood Ravens forgot about their past purposefully Because of that I like to think we might have loyal chapter made of some loyal remnants of Word Bearers like Anchorite
I love it when the guys talk about the absolute horrific chaos theatre filled with skeletons, rotting bodies with an expression of horror on their faces and then a picture of AMY SCHUMER is cut in, man that s*it is comedy gold!
Really Erebus is the first heretic. He's the source of even Lorgar's corruption. He was the one whispering into his ear and encouraging him to fall further, rather than heading the emperor's warning. He was also completely corrupted himself way before Lorgar.
@@Redx6504 Ironically the term Empyrean being the root etymological word of what we known as "Empire"/"Emperor"/"Imperial"/"Imperium"/etc, both of the Eldar usage and Emperor of Mankind usages used the term for Celestial states and entities, hence Imperium is technically a Celestial state in literal definition of humanity, kind of walking organism of Church/Sangha and proves further that "Imperial Truth" is still technically a religion, albeit worshiping the idea of race and State of "Imperium of Man" and presumably it's administration
And technically Kor Phaeron was the first since he never lost the faith he had in the Powers and he was older than Erebus and helped chaos cults survive throughout the galaxy for years before Monarchia
I'd like to point out that Konrad Curze called Lorgar the most pathethic man he's ever met, Lorgar was even told that his sons were going to suffer if he followed through with the heresy but he was still surprised that his sons were suffering, he didn't even come up with the plan himself! It was Erebus and Kor Phaeron who came up with basically everything
The imperial creed is basically Lorgars old sermons and texts translated by a Word Bearers dreadnought that turned back to worshipping the Emperor. Simultaneously a W and an L for the pasta man
Angron: Hey Lorgar, careful. Corax is standing right behind you. Lorgar: I'm not falling for that trick agai.... *Lorgar quickly spins around to check behind him Angron: "Ahahahahaha, got you again!" Lorgar-baiting, the only thing that makes Angron laugh
Lorgar: extremely devout man Emperor of mankind: if atheist was turned up to eleven and given form First meeting Lorgar: hello my lord, I have waited for your arrival Emperor: yes my son, now get off the ground and stop bowing. We have work to do. Lorgar: yes god Emperor: don’t call me that Lorgar: yes Devine being Emperor: don’t call me that either Lorgar: yes my supreme lord Emperor:….we’re going to have to work on this…
Funny that he calls himself "The Emperor" and bringing up "Imperial Truth" considering Imperial/Empire/Imperium/etc have roots in word "Empyrean" which literally means Heaven/Highest Celestial Sky
Me too but I dont they ever have done back to back Space marine legions so after next weeks episode on the Word bearers legion it will probably be a xenos episode then another general imperium episde and then maybe a Space marine Legion episode
If I remember correctly Lorgar also fears Corax because during his pilgrimage he was told by Ingethel that if he engaged Corax in a battle he could never win then he would die. While he wasn't a daemon primarch yet, Corax wasn't a shadowy warp bird so he may not be willing to test it
From what I understood, Corvus gained a sort of ‘Warp Form’ by tapping into his half warp nature from being a Primarch and can sort of flip a mental switch and turn back and forth.
It’s believed that the primarchs have the souls of warp gods in them, and Corvus through his pure hatred of Lorgar became a raven abomination as he unlocked his god powers in a true material form. Meaning they’re technically not a demon
You dudes really need to read Know No Fear, for 3 reasons: 1. It details revenge of Word Bearers on Ultramarines, aka start of shadow crusade 2. It's written by Dan Abnett a.k.a. one of, if not the best Black Library authors 3. We need to stop DK's Ultramarines slander, and if this book won't make him like Ultramarines even little bit more, I dont know what will
Yes he does but sadly he does not have much written about him and what is its pretty much about him being fucked over again and again. There maybe the least developed Primarch and legion
Something that I was always annoyed as hell by is that the Emperor is psychically powerful enough that he can fake the Razing of Monarchia. Force Lorgar to see the atrocities in his mind, and that the Emperor is a massive PoS, and and force the legion to kneel, the whole 9 yards. Then, the moment that Lorgar breaks and renounces his faith, then snap back to reality. The emperor could tell him that faith was what would lead him astray and break Lorgar of his religiosity problem without causing any lasting damage.
You guys should absolutely read Know No Fear before you hit Betrayer as it gives the book a good bit of context and largely covers the betrayal of calth since betrayer takes place right after. There is also an anthology that covers the underground war at calth from the perspective of the word bearers and the ultramarines and is a very fun way fo getting some understanding as to how much the legions hate each other. I also can't wait to see you guys cover imperium secundus! It's one of the more enjoyable plot lines of the heresy
I hope y'all eventually discuss horus peeling off Erebus's face because he had enough of his shenanigans because Erebus kept trying to get sanguinius to join Khorne against Horus's orders because during the time when Erebus tried that then whatever Horus's plan was failed because of Erebus's disobedience which I think led to sanguinius escaping instead of being killed or turned which PISSED horus off IMMENSELY and basically told Erebus's his gods ain't shit and everything is happening because of his leadership, not his precious gods and not him
Essentially corvus unlocked the hidden Warp powers used in the prinarchs' creation. But the key here is Warp, not Chaos. So corvus unlocked his warp powers and it involves being Big Bird
Corvus Corax's original warp form might represents him as one of the Mythological entity imagined by humanity and even every sentient beings as embodiment of shadowy-associated deities in The Immaterium, much like how Sanguinor/Dante and Dark Angel/Mephiston represented two Angels which once harboured within Sanguinus or the Cyclops-looking giant Yaksha/ashura/deva for Magnus or Sif-looking giant wolf for Leman Russ too Perhaps Vulkan's original form might be of a giant volcanic-spewing drake/wyvern or even Dorn being very probable to be associated with anti-warp entities (or injected with Necron Pylon in his conception or something) for being able to shut down Warp presence with his own sheer mental fortitudes This further proves of Majorkill theory of Primarchs' original soul being of the lesser warp deities that's separate from the 4/5 chaos gods (if we include Malys/Malice)
I just wanna add, there's another parallel between Lorgar's backstory and religion, him seeing visions of a one true God, and rebelling against his father and the polytheistic pantheon he worships perfectly mirrors the story of the prophet Abraham's childhood. Also, one interpretation of the scene where Big E makes Lorgar and his Word Bearers kneel, is that he was trying to prove a point, something along the lines of "You want me to be a God so bad? Fine, this is what it means to be subservient to a God, now kneel! I'm trying to create a galaxy where humanity rises above kneeling to anyone or anything, above the need for Gods." But it completely flew over their heads, I guess he should've been less subtle with it, and also not burn down their favorite city in the process.
Big E only showed what a monster he really was and how Logar was foolish to genuinely love and believe in him. His “Imperial Truth” is nothing but bullshit, and his hatered of Religion made him into a Fanatic Crusader... and ironically enough far worse than any religious crusade in history. He murderer billions who believed in him, because Logar instilled in them the belief that the Imperium was the future, and the Emperor would always protect them… and that was all became a lie. And all for what; To prove a point?
@@SpookyMarine Yeah I'm fully with Lorgar when it comes to the idea that that you cannot, and should not separate faith from man, Big E, for all his supposed love for humanity, tried to suppress an intrinsic part of it, and it back fired hard, but I guess, when you know what he knows about the warp and what's hiding in it, you can argue most of what he did was a necessary evil.
@@alistareapalex983 No actually the Ultramrines gave the people of Monarchia 6 whole days to evacuate the city, only Cyrene Valantion chose to stay as far as I know, there was no genocide involved.
No, the word bearers wanted to kneel but they were forced too instead, their most venerable practice turned into an object of slavery rather than an object of devotion.
Lorgar pre-fall to Chaos was charismatic, smart and overall pretty cool dude. Unfortunately, he was a terrible judge of character and got sold by Erebus an Kor Phaeron just as hard as all the people he sold his faith to.
The reason why Rogal Dorn can't read is, he saw what Lorgar was doing with his books...... "I did not wish to copulate with his Book father. I have only seen Lorgar do such a thing." - Rogal Dorn
Here lies dk and bricky One was known for being the nova main 19xx-2022 The other, was known for being a short stack goblin waifu 1600-2022 May the meme lords spare them of a terrible fate in the afterlife
Lorgar succeeded. Twice over. Not only did his writing turn the Imperium into a theocratic necrocracy and imbune the Emperor with the faith of countless billions, through his actions half of his (non-expunged) brothers turned to worship his new gods. Both being a huge middle finger to Guilliman who now see Monarchia everywhere, and who couldn't get many of the Astartes follow his precious Codex. For the last ten thousand years the primarch has been able to prosecute a holy crusade against his former beliefs. Orks are said to be the happiest faction, but a case could made for Lorgar existing in an endless state of euphoria that would make even Slaansh tell him to chill out.
I think there setting him up as the Next loyalist Primarch to return Could easily see him hunting Lorgar and this leads him to a battlefield outside the warp and him reuniting with his legion and realising that the Imperium and his sons need him more than ever.
Interesting that the primarch stated to most resemble their father was the most human of all the primarchs. Who considered himself a person and not a weapon, and understood the importance of faith and belief in human needs.
I'm sure Big-E actually *did* tell Lorgar to quit the act several times, it's just that we don't see it. He's not stupid, after all, and neither is Lorgar. Excusing Lorgars actions for him "wanting to know the truth" and blaming Big-E for all the crap that happened, is no different than excusing Big-E for wanting to preserve and safeguard humanity.
Slaves to Darkness is when Lorgar tries to usurp Horus, and when Horus basically turned on Lorgar before he could, it was awesome. He smacked him down, his back on the floor, then rose Lorgar back to his feet. Horus then threw Lorgar’s Crozius on the floor and basically just said, “go on, kill me… if you think you can.”
"so they take over their planet, cause that's what every primarch did." you heard that Angron? EVERY Primarch did that, could you imagine how funny it would be, if one of them didn't manage to do that?
The best way I found to differentiate between the two is thus: One is Ancient Egyptian or Pre-Islamic Egyptian and the other is Post-Islamic Egyptian. That is how academics are using it as well.
I'm not sure, despite Games Workshop is known for their lack of subtlety and a lot of copyright infringement back in their early editions, Lorgar's and Word Bearers' aesthetics looks more of Jewish and Sumerian/Akkadian Paganism rather than post-Islamic Egyptian Arab, I don't think GW is as anachronistic as how Genshin Impact portray Sumeru as Post-Islamic Arabia (mishmashed with Post-Islamic Persian and South Asian one) if I'm going further tangent
@@ohamatchhams I am not sure myself either. All I am saying that the difference between the Egyptian culture based on periods requires such terms. I am not quite sure about the Word Bearers homeworld, but I would guess it is either based Abrahamic history or that of Solomon the Wise (more Jewish or Ancient Phoenician).
And Fulgrim gets slapped around by first the Khan and Perty, and now takes an L to a daemon and gets stuck as an art piece? He really is the worst of them.
@@GeneralJerrard101 Angron didn't conquer his own homeworld. Hell, he was *enslaved* by his homeworld. Then he spent the rest of his life serving in a war he straight up did not believe in and kept trying to die.
It is commonly accepted that Corvus Corax fully embraced his warp based primarch powers after the heresy while hunting Lorgar in the warp during the scouring. He's not demon but apears demonic birdman and is more powerful than ever before. He hunts for Lorgar relentlesly and even fought his deamon prince form and kicked his ass AGAIN.
Hes not hunting Lorgar alone, Hes after ALL of his brothers. Its just that Lorgar was the first one he found, and the one he has the most hate towards.
Another great one guys. But I feel so much pain for when you do the Emps kids & find out what actually happens with Fulgrim & the Daemon from his blade. That isn't just GW dropping the ball. That story is GW forgetting what a ball even Fethin well is! A total screw up & missed opportunity
The theater is probably the same one that daemon possessed musicians performed for Fulgrim and his legion and was where they first gave themselves over to slanoosh
The interesting thing about Monarchia is that the Emperor actually screwed over TWO legions when he did that. The Word Bearers, who got humiliated, and the Ultramarines, who got a mortal enemy they never asked for.
"I don't know how he could be physically abusive, given it's lorgar" Someone being taller than you dosent stop you from hitting them and when he's allready manipulated by him....
23:27 Lion's mentor Luther was also turned into a pseudo-Astartes (also Magnus' adoptive father as well, I think?). 1:07:33 ah, La Fenice. I think it is mentioned in more detail in Fulgrim's primarch story. Unsure if there is any more detailed source other than that.
I'd love to see some kind of alt universe where Uriah from the Last Church raised Lorgar instead of Kor Phaeron. Frankly I think it would end better for everyone involved.
it would but wasn't Uriah an old man before Emps got into space? I also think it would have been cooler for Uriah to have went into the emperors fold but being mortal would have still died before he found any of the primarchs.
With the whole Monarchia bit, this is right after the Rangdan Xenocides. By this point, two legions are dead, the Dark Angels are down 50k marines, the Space Wolves and Death Guard are on Emergency Recruitment mode, with Mortarion bringing in recruits from off of Barbarus, entire battlefleets and titan legions have been turned into scrap, entire knightly houses were brought to extinction, and scores of Imperial Army divisions were used to wipe the floor, only legions like the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, and Imperial Fists are able to keep the Great Crusade from STALLING!! And Big E by this point tolerated Lorgar's slow pace, but now that at least a quarter of a million Astartes and a few hundred million mortal crewmen and a few hundred ships, couple thousand titans and knights are now broken wrecks.
Regarding the missing Primarchs: There's reason to believe the memories the other Primarchs have of them are implanted. Malcador pretty much said as much in The Chamber at the End of Memory.
@@mk_gamíng0609this has never made that much sense to me. If that were to be the case then how the hell does anyone this remember the Horus heresy? It’s is almost impossible for me to believe that the lost primarchs did something anywhere near as bad as start a civil war that broke the entire imperium for the next 10,000+ years
The theater that Fulgrim's painting is stored is more than likely the theater that preformed the "Maravigila", which was the event that sealed the Legion's damnation to Slaanesh. When the performance happened, the audience, both human and astartes, turned on each other and began doing unspeakable things. It got so bad Daemonettes manifested in the theater and killed the performers; however the Astartes were particularly moved to keep it going and picked up the instruments which were these gun-like devices and began firing them wildly. By the end of the performance, Fulgrim gave it a standing ovation and the Emperor's Children had created the first Noise Marines. The Emperor's Children have fragments of the performance recorded, which their Dark Apostles play in battle to bolster their warriors. It is one of the relics that the Emperor's Children can take, "Remnant of The Maravigila" and it allows all Emperor's Children Core or Characters within 6" of the Relic to gain 1 additional attack.
Head to keeps.com/adric to get 50% off your first order of hair loss treatment!
Head? I see what you did their Shy
Is hair worth worshipping just for its being of hair on head? Neeeaaaahhhh, hair must deserve to be worshiped becuse of its assume looks.
real aurelian bros are bald
The Emperor of Mankind: I am not the Messiah!!
Lorgar and Everyone else: HE’S THE MESSIAH!!!
How can you tell that Leman Russ is good... tons of hair.
Still unclear if evil makes you bald... or if bald makes you evil.
Shy says Sanguinius is dead, yet I just now saw him and several of my 9th legion brothers going to fight the archtraitor Horus. Checkmate, traitors.
Sir, I can lead you to "Horus" if it would please you. I am but a humble bearer of the word who wishes the demise of Horus and his bastard sons... Wait, why are you looking at me like that?
Bro,your corpse emperor cant have any shoes,not even raggedy ones,you lost.
-Warp Doge Vandire
@@joaoguilhermeassim wouldn't that be a plus for him?
@@joaoguilhermeassim His feet raggedy
Chaplain, brother Turkeybaster has fallen to the black rage. A sad day for the chapter. I shall retrieve the restraints.
"Its too late Dad ,I have alredy depicted you as a soyjack and myself as a chad, that means that am right and you are wrong."
-Lorgar after worshiping chaos
The emperor may present himself as a chad, but we all know that he’s compensating
@@anexistanthuman2435 Thus why he killed all who dared contradict him and burnt them with his giant ass sword.
I thought that the image was the last of us 2 meme at first, but this is also tasteful.
Reminder that lorgar is the weakest and shortest primarch after omegon/alpharius. Literally couldn't kill a mortal man
@@JohnDoe-xv9du are you referring to malcador? Cause while lorgar may be a whimp malcador isn’t exactly mortal the dudes 8000 years old and the strongest normal human pysker
Fun fact: The quote "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time." is actually spoken by Argel Tal to Lorgar who liked it so much that he wrote it into his other book (the one about worshipping Chaos) and it ended up being attributed to Lorgar.
Oddly fitting for both of them
To be fair they are not wrong. All too many demons received worship based on the theory it is easier to placate then stop them. And more than a few became popular enough to become actual gods. Take Pazuzu for example. He is the demon of the West wind and pestilence. But you could bribe him to keep his antics to a minimum. Also his ex, Lamatsu, would eat babies and stuff. But she feared him. So guess who enjoyed worship as a form of bribery to both stay civil and act as a body guard against his ex?
TTS Uriah word-shivs Jimmy Space with a line that is basically the same.
Pretty sure the one holding people upside down by the ankles and skinning them alive so they can drink their blood and enjoy it is the demon.
@@AnimeManiacAndres but you’re saying that from a human, sane person perspective.
From a Khorne worshipper’s perspective the being doing that is probably an Angel.
It’s similar to the Space Marines: if your brain runs on Imperial Propaganda logic you could watch an Ultramarine butcher an entire innocent Xenos family (or even innocent human family) and still call him one of the Emperor’s “Angels” with not a shred of logical dissonance.
The best word to describe Lorgar is Mercurial.
Guilliman said, "He is so...changeable. He is so prone to extremes. Eager to please, so quick to take offence. He's so keen to be your best friend, and then, at the slightest hint of an insult, he's angry with you. Furious. Offended. Like a child."
Yup.
I honestly would argue he's the most "human" out of the other primarchs
@@Roark787 Nah, he’s a petty man child.
If anyone deserves to be called a petulant man child it's Lorgar
Petulant manchild?
“You did it, Lorgar. You defeated me. *cough…*
You really are the first heretic.”
Gotta get me some hair plugs
I've always loved the fact that Lorgar is described as actually looking like the Emperor's Son. The First Heretic, the true Chosen of Chaos, and he bears the God Emperor's own face.
@@Redx6504 I think it's more akin to the golden glow and psychic projection the emperor displays. What people see is different than his true form. I believe it was Corvax that is first noted to have seem through the facade. It's detailed in their first meeting that everyone sees "the emperor" but Corvax sees a man until big E turns it up.
I mean can one be “the true chosen of chaos” the first yeah because he is the one who went looking, he was the easiest of the Primarchs to convert as well being predisposed to it, he was raised from birth in a place were religion was predominant and also the religion happened to be about the chaos gods, he just had everything he believed destroyed he was humiliated by his father and his city destroyed, he had a chaos convert speaking in his ear so yeah he would obviously be the first. But the true chosen of chaos is in itself kinda of an impossible title by definition, as when someone stronger and with more potential comes along he will become the “true chosen” and the former “true chosen” will be cast aside as it happened to him when Horus was corrupted and then he became the true champion of chaos undivided and Lorgar was pushed aside. No longer being chaos favourite bad boy. And that’s a cycle that’s forever doomed to repeat itself it’s in chaos nature
It’s a fun parallel that the two rival legions, the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers, both have books that are regarded as sacrosanct, both containing the words of their respective Primarchs, yet wildly different in message. A very interesting set of parallels.
And both used religiously by The Imperium
CA by many Speehs Mehreens chapters
LD by Ecclesiarchy
This is why The first Heretic and Know no fear are artistically brilliant sister novels. One is intersected with scripture, the other with quotes from a war manual
Most primarchs have reflections in the others
Both have primarchs that suck at fight. The time when Lorgar and Roboute fought was like drunk dads fighting during school soccer match.
@@dishantdalvi , yeah they suck so bad we have to forget they had the largest chapters. Or the fact that Gilliman had the largest collection of worlds before the Emperor found him. That his record was so good that Horus believed he would never follow orders and could rival him as the warmaster. That Horus sent not 1 but 2 chapters to distract Gilliman so Gilliman could not insure Big E won. Nevermind Lorgar creating a warp storm large enough to block out the light of terra or turning his brother into a demon prince, you know the thing that th chaos gods do... Yeah Lorgar did it alone. Lorgar sucks so hard that even in loss he still made the Emperor a god....
TONITE ON HERETIC GEAR:Bricky converts a hive world into a chaos cult, DK gets executed by the inquisition and Shy gets possessed by the powers of Mork and Gork
WAaaaaaaaaaaGH
The world's cutest and most diminutive waaaaaaagh. I figure Shy is a weird boy in real life who jist learned to not explode.
Nah shy become a new Ork chaos God who would just do what she does now but to gork and mork
Korioth is named High Marshall of the Scarus Sector and charged with restoring Imperial Order
And is subsequently charged with Misappropriating Resources, due to Him having several shipments of Tanks and Knighys delivered to His house, to begin His Collection
@@karlrichards7188 if I dream about gork an Mork tonight but they are bricky and Dk I blame you...
Guilliman wasn't the fastest at taking planets, but he didn't have to wait to restock on supplies and men because he had such good supply lines.
and had lower casualty rates
@@henrypaleveda7760 yup. You don't have to be the best fighter, you have to be the general.
Or go back and reinforce compliance.
Yeah he also set a step by step plan to greatly improve the capacities of the planet to the highest standards (Ultramar) which made every planet feel like Ultramar
Much to the chagrin of some sectors of the Imperium
Gulliman got some groceries after buying the store essentially
Kor Phaeron is the luckiest character in 40k. He found the *only* Primarch who would put up with his bullshit. Alpharius or Omegon would have allowed him to live for a while just to fuck with him more, but any other Primarch would have beaten him into a bloody pudding the moment he showed up.
As he would deserve.
yeah it's almost like how primarchs are raised as a child matters. Alpharius was raised by the Emperor, so yeah, he just kinda would do and believe whatever he says
now i want a novel (or probably just a short story) of kor phaeron trying to raise rogal dorn or perturabo.
"now now perty, before we can construct a fortress we need to do our prayers"
"your gods are cringe father" *beats him up and builds a fortress without saying prayers*
He also 1v1ed Gulliman, got the upper hand, stupidly gave it up and LIVED.
"He's shown more compassion than other primarchs, besides maybe Magnus..."
Flashbacks to Magnus watching his people die, only to act just before his libraries are burned...
Says a lot about the primarchs in general, doesn't it?
Ahriman did his best Perturabo impression during the burning of Prospero
well he's dealing with a traumatic syndrome he didn't meant to pour daemons to holy terra.
To be fair.. The burning of Propero was never suppose to happen
@@woaddragon and I appreciate you mentioning this! Such a tragedy, maybe that was his compassion? Idk but good point.
Honestly the most hilariously interesting story I've heard on Lorgar is when he discovers a cult worshipping the Emperor in Ultramar and gets the very words he used to preach, preached right back at him. And Lorgar realizes what the Imperium is turning into and decides to have his own personal war against what is going to become the Imperial Creed, and finds it hilariously ironic that the cult existed under Guilliman's nose.
Fun facts about Lorgar Aurelian's name and his title (The Urizen):
Lorgar is Colchisian for 'The Rain-Caller'. In the real world, Logar (with one 'r') is the name of a province in Afghanistan that, during the Soviet-Afghan War in the early 1980s was known as 'The Gates of Jihad' due to how much conflict the region saw. It was so bad that a journalist who visited the province wrote that 'Everywhere in the Logar Province, the most common sight except for ruins are graves.'.
Aurelian a.k.a. The Golden is the name of a Roman Emperor who is known for his many victories. However, what he is also known for is that he raised the very minor cult of the sun god Sol Invictus to such prominence that it became the official religion of Roman Empire for a time.
Urizen, which is Colchisian word for Wisest of the Wise is the name of a being described as the embodiment of conventional law and reason in the original mythos made by a British poet William Blake in the 18th century. William Blake was a romanticist and as such, the being Urizen is his mythos' equivalent of the Demiurge/Jaldabaoth of Gnosticism. Urizen is a rather cruel being who believed himself to be the god of the universe and is the embodiment of both religious dogmatism (Urizen IS the law) and Enlightenment rationalism (Urizen introduced uniformity to the world), both of which William Blake opposed.
(Additional fun fact: the word 'Enlightenment' written here refers to the Age of Enlightenment, a movement back in 17th and 18th century in the western world that champions reason, science and intellect as the way forward for humanity. William Blake was very much against this movement, what it stood for, its exalted figures (like Isaac Newton, look up his painting depicting Newton) and its proponents.)
There's a reason GW used these names for the First Traitor Primarch.
You are LOREGAR.
But seriously, thanks I do love me some knowledge
*RESTITUTOR ORBIS*
Gives a lot of context to DMC 5 too, thank you.
Well I'll be Damned!
@@nothisispatrick4644 MANU AD FERRUM.
GW really liked Aurelian so much they named two primarchs after him.
Big E to the Ad Mech: I am totally a god and you may worship me as the Omnisiah!
Lorgar: Oh can I also do that?
Big E: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
To be fair, OMNISSAH is more of tue Prophet, than of the God per se.
Lorgar honestly sometimes feel like the "final boss" of the daemon Primarchs. He was worshipping the chaos gods from the very start, he and Erebus was the ones that started the Horus heresy, he is the main reason why the imperium has become so fanatical, unlike all the other daemon primarchs that had their own goals/motivations Lorgar was always about serving the gods and he is the only one that serve and have the blessing of ALL the chaos gods.
If 40k ever have an "Everchosen" like Archeon from fantasy i feel Lorgar is a FAR better fit than Abbadon.
No matter how hard GW tries to make Abbadon the "final boss" of 40k he will always feel more like the miniboss before the true bosses that are the daemon primarchs.
And when he is defeated, I bet he says "now my true goal is fullfilled" or something.
I pray to all Gods that when Lorgar returns he's fully masterd enunicia
The Word Bearers should be the ones that start Dark Crusades.
In the Dornian Heresy Lorgar and the Word Bearers basically become the Black Templars Mixed with the Sisters Of battle. (They look cooler then they do in Canon).
Do the SOB still exist in Dornian Heresy?
And the Emperor was like "Better that humanity worships me than... *others* , I guess."
That… sounds dope as shit
The better version of Lorgar in my opinion, with an Emperor who isn't just a dude from r/atheism
I thought the Black Templars were made by Abaddon and the remaining Sons Of Horus?
Tonite on Ridiculous Gear: Bricky burns down monarchia using his shiny forehead. DK becomes Eresus as he convinces Lorgar to become a Vtuber and Shy becomes The Blessed Little Shy.
She's just a little Shy
@@FireMobius Just a little shy
@@IdioticSynergy she’s just a little shy
@@Maribro4 Just a little shy
@@FireMobius only a little shy thou
The story of corax doorbell ditched lorgar implies that he has "unlocked" powers by accepting what he and the primarchs are, so it might be that the form taken by corax is just what he actually is in regards to the warp magic that Emps used to make them. This is also implied by some spacewolf books in the heresy, the reason that Russ hates emps spear is because it shows him the truth. The truth about what he and the primarchs are is horrifying to Russ. So that monster might just be what Corax actually is, or the principle components that made him Corax.
There's an interesting theory that states that each of the primarchs souls are crafted from daemons or lesser warp gods. which would explain why the perfect clone of horus was still nowhere near as strong as he was, because it was just a super-level body, not a super-level body piloted and reinforced by a lesser chaos god.
There's a white angel and a red demon made of blood who've been fighting in the warp, apparently forever, and that's where all the souls of the blood angels go. The spirits/daemons of Fenris, genuinely answer and obey when Russ orders them.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 I’ve heard of that but I thought it was just pure warp stuff not lesser daemons
@@riven5677 Then why does Corvus Corax begin to turn into a crow, referring to it as him "reverting" to a more natural state. Why do the primarchs have powers so specific to each one?
The "lesser gods" theory makes plenty of sense viewed in that light. Russ holds authority over the spirits of Fenris because he likely was a powerful spirit himself. Sanguinious has a noble side and a horrifying bloodthirsty demon side. Corvus Corax's ability to slip into other dimensions and go completely unseen makes much more sense if he was made from a crow of the warp, one who hid from larger things by slipping into spaces between.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 yeah you make a point. I got a question though if the theory is right how did the emperor managed to rein in and all those spirits loyal(before they found out about chaos) I know there are warp entities who are not aligned to chaos and not super evil but I’m just curious
@@riven5677 Well, a couple things: 1, the Emperor did actually make a deal with the chaos gods, so the entities don't necessarily need to not be chaos. 2, the Emps is a super-duper psyker, and a peer to the chaos gods. He can clap most greater demons with almost 0 effort, and remolding them is just a few steps removed from that.
Colchis’s inspiration was Ancient Sumerian culture - with living in the desert and having people live by the rovers (like the Tigris and Euphrates) - even down to Lorgar having Cuneiform-type writing on his body.
Thank you
Bricky is ignorant
You know that scene in Warriors where that one guy is clinking empty beer bottles at the gang while saying “Warriors, come out to play~”, imagine Corvus is doing that to Lorgar while he’s in his tower. But the beer bottles are just Word Bearer helmets that he’s clinking together for the past nine thousand years outside Lorgar’s tower.
When I read this I think of black dynamite.
@@kuinnamationsanimations2716 “Lorgar Aurelian, First Among Traitors, you done fucked up now!”
@@Kropothead lorgar~I've betrayed the emperor before i walked in the room.
I remember in the audiodrama "The Sigillite", Malcador was lamenting Lorgar's fall, saying that they "could've handled him more gently. He was so fragile..."
It made me sad
That being said, a childhood full of abuse will do that to a person. Make them mercurial.
CPTSD-ish.
The Primarchs were immune to all this shit except mental illness.
If you truly wish to understand the theater scene read fulgrim it will all make sense
@@krisblunden1642 I already have. A while ago.
EDIT: awkward comment is awkward
I am convinced that other than horus, all the traitor primarchs ended up the way they did cause emps sucks either bieng directly a shit head to them (agronomy and mortality for instance) or sucks at handling mental illnesses (Perterabo for instance is BLATANTLY autistic.)
I was about to make a joke about Lorgar having borderline personality disorder in response but then I realized if you substitute "favorite person" (I don't know if thats an actual scientific thing or an internet invention) with gods to worship, it actually kinda makes sense....
Oh, look, someone using mental health as a reason to villainize people. You really are a part of the Simperium.@@chestnut4860
THAT THUMBNAIL THO
Mega cursed
Lorgar
"I will not be silenced because you do not like the melody of one single word. In your grip, a thousand worlds turn! By your will, a million vessels sail the void. You are immortal, undying, seeing all and knowing all that transpires across creation. Father, you are a god in all but name. All that remains is to confess to it."
He wasn't wrong. I get what big E was trying to do but Lorgar was right. In denying his true state big E allowed him self to become that which he hated.
@@PodreyJenkin138 , only he was. He is not a mortal. That is clear by his deeds before he was placed in the golden throne . He is something far greater, again immortal and undying. no the high lords do not compare to the emperor. It's is not Thier will that shine like a beacon in the warp providing light to the ships. They don't have the means with in them selves to bind entire planets or create new forms of life. They can not stand directly against the chaos gods and make them fear a direct confrontation. They did not create the primarchs nor do they have the ability to bend them to Thier will. The emperor can, is and has done all these things and more. The Emperor is as far beyond a mortal as humans are to ants. The only creatures that comes close to what the emperor has achieved are chaos gods and the beings that screwed over the necrons.
@@PodreyJenkin138 , he grants his powers to other. He resurrects the dead and empowers his followers. He has saints even before he is placed on the throne. There are actual miracles that are performed in his name not by psychers but people that have great faith. Those that believe in him are protected from chaos, again we see this even before he is on the throne in the horus heresy. Sure one could argue that even the chaos gods and elder gods are not true gods but if we attribute some level of divinity to those entities than the emperor has not only matched them but has proven he is beyond them. Even the orcs gods have less impact than the emperor does. The real test is however is do you believe the imperial truth, he actually explains it in the Horus heresy when he calls the chaos gods "warp xenos" he refuses to acknowledge their divinity, but acknowledges thier power. Read the last church. If you subscribe to the line of reason the emperor's putting forth and I can truly understand that you would not believe he is a God but again that would mean that the orc gods are not gods and the elder gods are not gods and the chaos gods are not gods. At the end of the day what part of godhood has he not achieved?
@@PodreyJenkin138 it really is. You have the right idea btw. What is a god? How do you define such an term in 40k? What is the definition in 40k? I do know based on published work that the emperor was no mortal and has ascended into something very different with his time on the throne.
I think colchis is actually more based around Mesopotamia especially since they live near rivers, use mub bricks for structures and have a ruling priest class. In fact lorgar is very similar to the early Mesopotamian kings who eventually would take power from the priest class and would believe they were favored by the gods of their city states.
Colchis was actually an ancient west Georgian kingdom
Also Mesopotamian and Levantine gods ended up being demons in Christianity
Extra fact for people: In Mythology Jason and the Argonauts travel to Colchis to get the Golden Fleece. Medea is also the daughter of the King of Colchis.
@@gimme0cookies the capital city is the real give away, they call it the city of grey flowers as they cultivated a rare flower within the city. It gives the vibe of the hanging gardens of Babylon.
Just to clarify the situation going on with Corvus Corax. He awakened the powers of his Primarch soul. Doing so caused him to shed his mortal form. He didn't become a daemon persay. More like an entity fueled by Warp stuff independent from any God.
He realized that to grow up big and strong he would have to eat his daily meal of warp spaghetti alongside his chicken nuggets.
Proving yet again that Corvus is the ultimate fuck you to every chaos primarch. Imagine selling (or being tricked into selling) you soul to a vile god for power only to have your brother get the same power while keeping his soul.
@@JudgeNicodemus Saying this because I like to every chance I get: Corax was the only Loyalist Primarch on Istvaan they weren't able to kill.
@@christopherclayton5500 hey Vulcan didn't *stay* dead
@@christopherclayton5500 Vulkan had a nuke dropped on him
He's trying his best
NOTE: In the "Master of Mankind" it is implied that Monarchia was the LAST attempt to change Lorgar's ways, not the FIRST.
Not surprised that they missed this.d
Yeah that was basically the Emperor sick of Lorgar's shit at that point. He had probably already made up his mind that Lorgar was one of the primarchs that Chaos would get
Oh he changed alright.
Can you provide the excerpt?
Yeah. A retcon in a desperate attempt to moralize a setting that never had it. Congratulations on buying the shit shoveled into your gullet.
First DK gets the quote right, then he makes a spongebob reference...He's an Alpha Legion spy, dispose of him!
Nah, an actual alpha legion spy would be good enough at their job to not give themselves away this easily.
@@bonogiamboni4830 so foolish it can't be anyone else
"Lorgar, I want you to stop calling me a god. And to make my point I will take my golden host, smite your holy city from the skies and make you and your entire Legion prostrate yourselves with my mere presence." - The definitely not God Emperor of Manking
The term of "Emperor" have the root word of "Empyrean" which meant to be of "Highest Celestial Heaven/Sky" in Religious manner, so yeah even "Imperial Truth" and pre-heresy "Imperium of Man" is still utilising Religious term and iconography despite being "secular"/antitheistic
"If things don't go your way, just keep complaining until all your dreams come true" Lorgar probably
“If you absolutely religiously worship someone, do the opposite of what they want and then act like a baby bitch when they get mad and hate you for it” lorgar probably
Lorgar: Father, you bless me with your presence.
Emperor: Lorgar, for the last time. I'm not a god (Just someone with power close to gods).
Lorgar: Well, if it looks like a god, speaks like a god and act like a god, than you must be god (With all the golden armor and all).
“I’ll be honest Father, you’re not trying very hard to convince me otherwise.”
…. And the Emperor took that personally
@@TheNaturalnuke and then mind raped him and his sons, destroyed their favourite city, and made them kneel to girlyman
@@TheNaturalnuke>The psychic towering big human with golden armor and a big ‘iron halo’: “I am not a god, my son.”
Lorgar Aurelian: “I am getting very mixed signals here.”
You forgot to mention that after lorgar came back from the pilgrimage, they continued the crusades despite them turning to chaos (they basically did this as a ruse), and ironically, they ended up conquering planets at an alarming rate (possibly the fastest legion).
I believe that the Theatre that Lorgar and Fulgrim go too is the Theatre where the Emperors Children first encounter daemons of Slannesh in the book “Fulgrim”. It’s a pretty interesting scene in the book. And at the book ends with Fulgrim in the same theatre, looking at the gross painting of “himself”
That summoning scene in Fulgrim was so crazy I keep going back to the book thinking "it wasn't that crazy" only to find it was in fact totally nutty.
@@Wakefar it was a literal murder orgy with cacophonous, heinous music and space Marines going nuts in simultaneous pain and pleasure, daemonettes of Slannesh possessing the bodies of the musicians, all the while Fulgrim is sitting in the nosebleeds of the theatre just mesmerized.
@@nadussias just trying to remember something, but was the painting called "The Image of Perfection" and wasn't the whole performance its grand reveal?
Lorgar flipping back and forth on his emotions is something also mentioned in Know No Fear because at one point while talking to Guiliman Lorgar goes from calm to pissed to calm very fast when Guiliman mentions that his tech-priests found a virus because Lorgar claims that Guiliman is blaming him. He even goes into a sermon to his sons about how untrustworthy the Ultramarines are till Guiliman comments that he wasn't blaming Lorgar and only wanted to mention it incase something infected his systems. That book is also amazing to me because at one point its literally rains Baneblades onto Ultramarines.
The best part about "all I wanted was the truth" is that the emperor has his "imperial truth"
Lorgar speaks in onions
_"If Lorgar had our sponsor, KEEPS, Lorgar would no longer be evil."_
...
Ah yes, the ultimate weapon against the forces of the Warp, _ANTI-BALDING CREAM._
... Based.
No it wouldn't... Lorgars head is *shaved* bald, he *chose* this.
The hair-less heresy.
Lorgar had so much potential to be one of the greatest primarchs, but unfortunately, he was found by Kor Phaeron, and trusted Erebus. Also, Lorgar had a point in seeing big E as a god. The man walks around in golden armour, with a shining face of many visages, and performs miracles without breaking a sweat. How would people not see him as a god?
It’s part of the evidence for a theory running around that on some level E had to have known their would inevitably worship him. He has many faces and the one we know is likely not even his real one and THATS what he decided people should see him as. No way he didn’t know
To quote TTS:
“ LOOK. JUST BECAUSE I WANT TO WEAR ORNATE GOLD ARMOUR, WIELD A FIERY SWORD, EMIT A GLOW PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TIME, AND OTHER THINGS OF THAT NATURE DOESN’T MEAN I WANT TO BE LOOKED UPON AS A GOD. I’M NOT THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT NOT TO DRESS LIKE A GOD. YOU’RE THE ONES WHO NEED TO BE FUCKING TAUGHT THAT CONSIDERING PEOPLE TO BE GODS DEPENDANT ON HOW THEY LOOK IS WRONG”
Because he can still die? What use is a dead god?
@@majordakka5743 Ask the Eldar.
@@majordakka5743 The Eldar would know that answer
The theatre is a Slaanesh thing. People are brought there, or arrive willingly, and the show begins. Acts that are terrifying to normal people but very tame to followers at first. But then they rapidly get more and more disturbing. This could go on for days or even weeks at a time as terror gives way to excitement and eventually pleasure for some, while others mentally break. Baldermort has a great story about this in the beginning of his video on the grey knights.
Some fun facts about Blood Ravens:
- Planet of the system they recruit from is called Aurelia (Lorgar *Aurelian* )
- Another one is called like Blessed Lady of the Word Bearers: Cyrene
- Eliphas of Word Bearers called Blood Ravens brothers, while marines from different legions called each other "cousin"
- Word Bearers fought on Kronus during Horus Heresy - Blood Ravens found relics of their chapter there, that were later destroyed by cpt. Davian Thule who found them too be damning and swore silence.
- Ravens seek "truth" about their primarch almost fanatically and focus on the emperor more than other chapters.
- They are gifted with warp powers - Magnus and Lorgar were both powerful psykers (and afaik Lorgar was mainly into divinitation which is strong side of Blood Ravens psykers)
- "Knowledge is power" is quote of Erebus (but also many other characters so it's not that indicating, but it's there)
- There is at least one loyal Word Bearer in 40k "The Anchorite" that can manifest psychic powers like light of the Emperor to shitstomp demons
- Blood Ravens in DoW II fell mainly to Khorne and Nurgle there was no indication of Tzeentch showing any interest in them
- It was hinted that Blood Ravens forgot about their past purposefully
Because of that I like to think we might have loyal chapter made of some loyal remnants of Word Bearers like Anchorite
I thought they were descendants of the Thousand Sons.
@@DracobyteThere are even more points in favor of them being TS.
But WB is also an option, just to keep us and them guessing.
I picked a good day to start painting my Word Bearers army.
Could you imagine Logar's reaction when he sees the Imperium nowadays? His religious view is now the Imperium's religion.
Its in a book. He is absolutely seething
@@fatherpucci-madeinheaven362 even when he wins he loses
@@fatherpucci-madeinheaven362 Ugh, some people can never be happy. Konrad Curze would explode in his pants for that kind of vindication.
@@Broomer52 And even when he loses, he wins.
I love it when the guys talk about the absolute horrific chaos theatre filled with skeletons, rotting bodies with an expression of horror on their faces and then a picture of AMY SCHUMER is cut in, man that s*it is comedy gold!
Really Erebus is the first heretic. He's the source of even Lorgar's corruption. He was the one whispering into his ear and encouraging him to fall further, rather than heading the emperor's warning. He was also completely corrupted himself way before Lorgar.
@@Redx6504 Ironically the term Empyrean being the root etymological word of what we known as "Empire"/"Emperor"/"Imperial"/"Imperium"/etc, both of the Eldar usage and Emperor of Mankind usages used the term for Celestial states and entities, hence Imperium is technically a Celestial state in literal definition of humanity, kind of walking organism of Church/Sangha and proves further that "Imperial Truth" is still technically a religion, albeit worshiping the idea of race and State of "Imperium of Man" and presumably it's administration
And technically Kor Phaeron was the first since he never lost the faith he had in the Powers and he was older than Erebus and helped chaos cults survive throughout the galaxy for years before Monarchia
I'd like to point out that Konrad Curze called Lorgar the most pathethic man he's ever met, Lorgar was even told that his sons were going to suffer if he followed through with the heresy but he was still surprised that his sons were suffering, he didn't even come up with the plan himself! It was Erebus and Kor Phaeron who came up with basically everything
Curze is never not based
Kurze is the ultimate edgelord. B)
Curze calling someone pathetic is rich
@@morgothastartes Makes sense since Curze has seen the most pathetic people of humanity so he knows what pathetic is
@@shadowstrider8295 near the end he seemed to realize that he was pathetic as well. Didn’t he?
The imperial creed is basically Lorgars old sermons and texts translated by a Word Bearers dreadnought that turned back to worshipping the Emperor. Simultaneously a W and an L for the pasta man
Angron: Hey Lorgar, careful. Corax is standing right behind you.
Lorgar: I'm not falling for that trick agai....
*Lorgar quickly spins around to check behind him
Angron: "Ahahahahaha, got you again!"
Lorgar-baiting, the only thing that makes Angron laugh
The retched bird man screeching in the distance: Loud corvid noises
To be fair. . . he also likes it when he can goad people into attacking him and or watching Lorgar tear verbal strips of flesh off of Erebus.
Big e in the thumbnail looking like after living for thousands of years, he still can't handle allergy season
Lorgar: extremely devout man
Emperor of mankind: if atheist was turned up to eleven and given form
First meeting
Lorgar: hello my lord, I have waited for your arrival
Emperor: yes my son, now get off the ground and stop bowing. We have work to do.
Lorgar: yes god
Emperor: don’t call me that
Lorgar: yes Devine being
Emperor: don’t call me that either
Lorgar: yes my supreme lord
Emperor:….we’re going to have to work on this…
Funny that he calls himself "The Emperor" and bringing up "Imperial Truth" considering Imperial/Empire/Imperium/etc have roots in word "Empyrean" which literally means Heaven/Highest Celestial Sky
Lorgar spent so much time studying, he never got as strong as the other primarchs. He remained small. He was , just a little guy.
Dont call me a God
*walks around as 12ft tall giant in gleaming gold armor and shining like the sun in unterra radiance*
Hope Corvus and the Raven Guard are up next, ready to learn about the edgy bird boys and the Loyalist Demon Primarch
Me too but I dont they ever have done back to back Space marine legions so after next weeks episode on the Word bearers legion it will probably be a xenos episode then another general imperium episde and then maybe a Space marine Legion episode
01:22
Bricky: "Did you know that Lorgar is bald?"
Me: "Is this a Keeps ad?!"
The thumbnail this time is delightfully cursed. Great work, as always!
DK's confidence during the quote section is a sublime character arc and I'm all there for it.
Lorgar: gets stabbed repeatedly and gets brought to near death
Curze: cringe
Dorn and Guilliman built roads and aqueducts and stuff, Lorgar was all-in on turning planets into Anor Londo
"As you can see dad, I depicted you as the soyjak and myself as the chad. You and your Imperial Truth have already lost." - Lorgar Aurelian
If I remember correctly Lorgar also fears Corax because during his pilgrimage he was told by Ingethel that if he engaged Corax in a battle he could never win then he would die. While he wasn't a daemon primarch yet, Corax wasn't a shadowy warp bird so he may not be willing to test it
The theater that fulgrim has might be miraviglia, the theater were the legion fell, and where noise marines were first created
From what I understood, Corvus gained a sort of ‘Warp Form’ by tapping into his half warp nature from being a Primarch and can sort of flip a mental switch and turn back and forth.
It’s believed that the primarchs have the souls of warp gods in them, and Corvus through his pure hatred of Lorgar became a raven abomination as he unlocked his god powers in a true material form. Meaning they’re technically not a demon
You dudes really need to read Know No Fear, for 3 reasons:
1. It details revenge of Word Bearers on Ultramarines, aka start of shadow crusade
2. It's written by Dan Abnett a.k.a. one of, if not the best Black Library authors
3. We need to stop DK's Ultramarines slander, and if this book won't make him like Ultramarines even little bit more, I dont know what will
The UM deserve better from DK.
And it makes a very good bridge between The First Heretic and Betrayer
The 30k Ultramarines are almost a different legion than the 40k Ultramarines. They and Guilliman are generally well-written.
Matt ward has done irreparable damage to the UM with his absolutely DOGSHIT writing and fanboying
Just have him read the Dark Imperium series, it made me like Guilliman and Co.
4:49 Fun fact: If you keep repeating Lorgar over and over for long enough it starts sounding like a Pokémon.
Please do an episode on Corvus Corax soon, he deserves the acknowledgment.
Yes he does but sadly he does not have much written about him and what is its pretty much about him being fucked over again and again.
There maybe the least developed Primarch and legion
@@mk_gamíng0609 Ferrus Manus would like a word.
Something that I was always annoyed as hell by is that the Emperor is psychically powerful enough that he can fake the Razing of Monarchia.
Force Lorgar to see the atrocities in his mind, and that the Emperor is a massive PoS, and and force the legion to kneel, the whole 9 yards. Then, the moment that Lorgar breaks and renounces his faith, then snap back to reality. The emperor could tell him that faith was what would lead him astray and break Lorgar of his religiosity problem without causing any lasting damage.
You guys should absolutely read Know No Fear before you hit Betrayer as it gives the book a good bit of context and largely covers the betrayal of calth since betrayer takes place right after.
There is also an anthology that covers the underground war at calth from the perspective of the word bearers and the ultramarines and is a very fun way fo getting some understanding as to how much the legions hate each other.
I also can't wait to see you guys cover imperium secundus! It's one of the more enjoyable plot lines of the heresy
I hope y'all eventually discuss horus peeling off Erebus's face because he had enough of his shenanigans because Erebus kept trying to get sanguinius to join Khorne against Horus's orders because during the time when Erebus tried that then whatever Horus's plan was failed because of Erebus's disobedience which I think led to sanguinius escaping instead of being killed or turned which PISSED horus off IMMENSELY and basically told Erebus's his gods ain't shit and everything is happening because of his leadership, not his precious gods and not him
Remember kids, Calth was an act of self defence.
In the words of Lord Adorable.
No.
@@10thCompanyCaptain in the words of lord adorable too
Yessss
Chad Lorgar is having his last laugh in the wrap right now, while the rotting emperor sits and watches Lorgar’s vision come true
Essentially corvus unlocked the hidden Warp powers used in the prinarchs' creation. But the key here is Warp, not Chaos. So corvus unlocked his warp powers and it involves being Big Bird
Corvus Corax's original warp form might represents him as one of the Mythological entity imagined by humanity and even every sentient beings as embodiment of shadowy-associated deities in The Immaterium, much like how Sanguinor/Dante and Dark Angel/Mephiston represented two Angels which once harboured within Sanguinus or the Cyclops-looking giant Yaksha/ashura/deva for Magnus or Sif-looking giant wolf for Leman Russ too
Perhaps Vulkan's original form might be of a giant volcanic-spewing drake/wyvern or even Dorn being very probable to be associated with anti-warp entities (or injected with Necron Pylon in his conception or something) for being able to shut down Warp presence with his own sheer mental fortitudes
This further proves of Majorkill theory of Primarchs' original soul being of the lesser warp deities that's separate from the 4/5 chaos gods (if we include Malys/Malice)
@@ohamatchhams Dorn is made from the spirit of density.
I just wanna add, there's another parallel between Lorgar's backstory and religion, him seeing visions of a one true God, and rebelling against his father and the polytheistic pantheon he worships perfectly mirrors the story of the prophet Abraham's childhood.
Also, one interpretation of the scene where Big E makes Lorgar and his Word Bearers kneel, is that he was trying to prove a point, something along the lines of "You want me to be a God so bad? Fine, this is what it means to be subservient to a God, now kneel! I'm trying to create a galaxy where humanity rises above kneeling to anyone or anything, above the need for Gods." But it completely flew over their heads, I guess he should've been less subtle with it, and also not burn down their favorite city in the process.
Big E only showed what a monster he really was and how Logar was foolish to genuinely love and believe in him.
His “Imperial Truth” is nothing but bullshit, and his hatered of Religion made him into a Fanatic Crusader... and ironically enough far worse than any religious crusade in history.
He murderer billions who believed in him, because Logar instilled in them the belief that the Imperium was the future, and the Emperor would always protect them… and that was all became a lie. And all for what; To prove a point?
@@SpookyMarine Yeah I'm fully with Lorgar when it comes to the idea that that you cannot, and should not separate faith from man, Big E, for all his supposed love for humanity, tried to suppress an intrinsic part of it, and it back fired hard, but I guess, when you know what he knows about the warp and what's hiding in it, you can argue most of what he did was a necessary evil.
I like that you put 'not do a Genocide' at the end. Cool
@@alistareapalex983 No actually the Ultramrines gave the people of Monarchia 6 whole days to evacuate the city, only Cyrene Valantion chose to stay as far as I know, there was no genocide involved.
No, the word bearers wanted to kneel but they were forced too instead, their most venerable practice turned into an object of slavery rather than an object of devotion.
Lorgar pre-fall to Chaos was charismatic, smart and overall pretty cool dude. Unfortunately, he was a terrible judge of character and got sold by Erebus an Kor Phaeron just as hard as all the people he sold his faith to.
The reason why Rogal Dorn can't read is, he saw what Lorgar was doing with his books......
"I did not wish to copulate with his Book father. I have only seen Lorgar do such a thing." - Rogal Dorn
Please erase these mind images
Here lies dk and bricky
One was known for being the nova main
19xx-2022
The other, was known for being a short stack goblin waifu
1600-2022
May the meme lords spare them of a terrible fate in the afterlife
Lorgar succeeded. Twice over. Not only did his writing turn the Imperium into a theocratic necrocracy and imbune the Emperor with the faith of countless billions, through his actions half of his (non-expunged) brothers turned to worship his new gods. Both being a huge middle finger to Guilliman who now see Monarchia everywhere, and who couldn't get many of the Astartes follow his precious Codex. For the last ten thousand years the primarch has been able to prosecute a holy crusade against his former beliefs. Orks are said to be the happiest faction, but a case could made for Lorgar existing in an endless state of euphoria that would make even Slaansh tell him to chill out.
The concept of warp-twisted Corax as an avatar of vengence brings me so much joy.
I would love to see that actually implemented in 40k.
I think there setting him up as the Next loyalist Primarch to return
Could easily see him hunting Lorgar and this leads him to a battlefield outside the warp and him reuniting with his legion and realising that the Imperium and his sons need him more than ever.
Interesting that the primarch stated to most resemble their father was the most human of all the primarchs. Who considered himself a person and not a weapon, and understood the importance of faith and belief in human needs.
I'm sure Big-E actually *did* tell Lorgar to quit the act several times, it's just that we don't see it. He's not stupid, after all, and neither is Lorgar.
Excusing Lorgars actions for him "wanting to know the truth" and blaming Big-E for all the crap that happened, is no different than excusing Big-E for wanting to preserve and safeguard humanity.
Slaves to Darkness is when Lorgar tries to usurp Horus, and when Horus basically turned on Lorgar before he could, it was awesome. He smacked him down, his back on the floor, then rose Lorgar back to his feet. Horus then threw Lorgar’s Crozius on the floor and basically just said, “go on, kill me… if you think you can.”
Know No Fear should be the next book club book, it’s one of the best heresy books and covers the battle of Calth
Corvus didn’t get a scent for Lorgar until they had a rematch inside the warp.
"so they take over their planet, cause that's what every primarch did."
you heard that Angron? EVERY Primarch did that, could you imagine how funny it would be, if one of them didn't manage to do that?
*while Morty and his stinky ass hide in a corner*
Italian word bearers player here, painting my old possessed as we speak and appreciating the timing of this episode as i just got the new rules
The best way I found to differentiate between the two is thus:
One is Ancient Egyptian or Pre-Islamic Egyptian and the other is Post-Islamic Egyptian. That is how academics are using it as well.
I'm not sure, despite Games Workshop is known for their lack of subtlety and a lot of copyright infringement back in their early editions, Lorgar's and Word Bearers' aesthetics looks more of Jewish and Sumerian/Akkadian Paganism rather than post-Islamic Egyptian Arab, I don't think GW is as anachronistic as how Genshin Impact portray Sumeru as Post-Islamic Arabia (mishmashed with Post-Islamic Persian and South Asian one) if I'm going further tangent
@@ohamatchhams I am not sure myself either. All I am saying that the difference between the Egyptian culture based on periods requires such terms. I am not quite sure about the Word Bearers homeworld, but I would guess it is either based Abrahamic history or that of Solomon the Wise (more Jewish or Ancient Phoenician).
4:25 this is why I prefer watching on YT rather then Spotify. I would have had no idea this picture existed otherwise
Bricky saying "more for the viewers, not for you" at 7:52 really made me realize that DK is no longer a student
I feel like Curze is the only primarch to save another primarch. He really is the best of them.
And Fulgrim gets slapped around by first the Khan and Perty, and now takes an L to a daemon and gets stuck as an art piece? He really is the worst of them.
@@GeneralJerrard101 Man, i honestly wish that.
@@GeneralJerrard101 Angron didn't conquer his own homeworld. Hell, he was *enslaved* by his homeworld. Then he spent the rest of his life serving in a war he straight up did not believe in and kept trying to die.
@@HalfTangible Angron would have been the best of them if Emps gave a shit about him. He was supposed to be the healer.
@@Kropothead It's Big E's fault that Angron had his brain mutilated and made to feel nothing but hatred long before he showed up?
It is commonly accepted that Corvus Corax fully embraced his warp based primarch powers after the heresy while hunting Lorgar in the warp during the scouring. He's not demon but apears demonic birdman and is more powerful than ever before. He hunts for Lorgar relentlesly and even fought his deamon prince form and kicked his ass AGAIN.
Hes not hunting Lorgar alone, Hes after ALL of his brothers. Its just that Lorgar was the first one he found, and the one he has the most hate towards.
Another great one guys. But I feel so much pain for when you do the Emps kids & find out what actually happens with Fulgrim & the Daemon from his blade. That isn't just GW dropping the ball. That story is GW forgetting what a ball even Fethin well is! A total screw up & missed opportunity
The theater is probably the same one that daemon possessed musicians performed for Fulgrim and his legion and was where they first gave themselves over to slanoosh
The interesting thing about Monarchia is that the Emperor actually screwed over TWO legions when he did that.
The Word Bearers, who got humiliated, and the Ultramarines, who got a mortal enemy they never asked for.
"I don't know how he could be physically abusive, given it's lorgar"
Someone being taller than you dosent stop you from hitting them and when he's allready manipulated by him....
I always saw Lorgar being played by Arnold Vosloo from The Mummy. If there ever was a Heresy movie in the 2000s, he'd been a perfect Lorgar.
23:27 Lion's mentor Luther was also turned into a pseudo-Astartes (also Magnus' adoptive father as well, I think?).
1:07:33 ah, La Fenice. I think it is mentioned in more detail in Fulgrim's primarch story. Unsure if there is any more detailed source other than that.
Big E saying Lorgars name 3 times with each being louder and more angry definitely has Alvin and the chipmunk vibes when Dave gets mad at Alvin.
I'd love to see some kind of alt universe where Uriah from the Last Church raised Lorgar instead of Kor Phaeron. Frankly I think it would end better for everyone involved.
it would but wasn't Uriah an old man before Emps got into space?
I also think it would have been cooler for Uriah to have went into the emperors fold but being mortal would have still died before he found any of the primarchs.
@@henrypaleveda7760 I meant more along the lines of just swap the place of Kor Phaeron and Uriah, including when/where they lived.
@@jacobklein-cohen3704 oh; yeah that would be better
With the whole Monarchia bit, this is right after the Rangdan Xenocides. By this point, two legions are dead, the Dark Angels are down 50k marines, the Space Wolves and Death Guard are on Emergency Recruitment mode, with Mortarion bringing in recruits from off of Barbarus, entire battlefleets and titan legions have been turned into scrap, entire knightly houses were brought to extinction, and scores of Imperial Army divisions were used to wipe the floor, only legions like the Luna Wolves, Ultramarines, and Imperial Fists are able to keep the Great Crusade from STALLING!! And Big E by this point tolerated Lorgar's slow pace, but now that at least a quarter of a million Astartes and a few hundred million mortal crewmen and a few hundred ships, couple thousand titans and knights are now broken wrecks.
Regarding the missing Primarchs: There's reason to believe the memories the other Primarchs have of them are implanted. Malcador pretty much said as much in The Chamber at the End of Memory.
What was the point in doing that?
@@anthonybernard8819 We don't really know.
Interesting.
@@anthonybernard8819 Maybe what the Missing Primarchs did was so horrible that they erased the true memories but implanted new less worse ones.
@@mk_gamíng0609this has never made that much sense to me. If that were to be the case then how the hell does anyone this remember the Horus heresy? It’s is almost impossible for me to believe that the lost primarchs did something anywhere near as bad as start a civil war that broke the entire imperium for the next 10,000+ years
42:11 Well he is the Primarch of the Word Bearers. He knows how to use the word.
The theater that Fulgrim's painting is stored is more than likely the theater that preformed the "Maravigila", which was the event that sealed the Legion's damnation to Slaanesh.
When the performance happened, the audience, both human and astartes, turned on each other and began doing unspeakable things. It got so bad Daemonettes manifested in the theater and killed the performers; however the Astartes were particularly moved to keep it going and picked up the instruments which were these gun-like devices and began firing them wildly. By the end of the performance, Fulgrim gave it a standing ovation and the Emperor's Children had created the first Noise Marines.
The Emperor's Children have fragments of the performance recorded, which their Dark Apostles play in battle to bolster their warriors. It is one of the relics that the Emperor's Children can take, "Remnant of The Maravigila" and it allows all Emperor's Children Core or Characters within 6" of the Relic to gain 1 additional attack.