How Does Stance Work? | Making A Build - Chapter 12 | Elden Ring
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- TWITTER: / gaming_frowny
One of my favorite additions to Elden Ring’s combat and, in my opinion, the most useful one, is the Stance system. This is a public mechanic, meaning that the game tells you about it, but it runs on a hidden system. Nowhere in the game can we see a Stance Stat, not in enemies and certainly not in weapons. So this is the objective of the video. We are going to review the full mechanic: what does it do, how does it work and how can we use it to our advantage.
CONTENTS
0:00 Introduction
1:03 What is Stance?
2:58 Stance Damage
4:50 Calculating Weapon Stance Damage
6:59 Breaking an Enemy’s Stance
8:07 Stance Damage Regenerates
10:47 Stopping The Regen
12:16 Stance is Static
14:08 Stance Damage Modifiers
14:46 Bonuses
18:52 Penalties
21:12 Outro
If you are interested in the Motion Values explanation:
• How Does Damage Work? ...
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If you enjoyed the video, please leave a “Like”.
If you did not enjoy the video, leave a “Dislike” and, maybe, a comment explaining why you did not like it. All criticism is welcome.
Also, consider subscribing to the channel. Your company is welcome and your support extremely helpful.
BE ADVISED: This is the second video I publish in regards to this mechanic. The first one, unfortunately, was not a complete work and I was not happy with the end product. It had some mistakes and there were some things that should have been addressed, but were not. I believe that I could have done a better job. This version of the video contains more information that is more accurate and it should serve better to understand the Stance mechanic. The initial video has now been "unlisted" to avoid any duplication in any possible searches. Nevertheless, if you are curious or interested in seeing the first video, here is the link: th-cam.com/video/EaucJBXMGUw/w-d-xo.html
I apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.
Massive respect for both your willingness to remake the video, and also for retaining a public record of the old video. Thanks for all your hard work.
My respects. At least you have the decency to accept your mistakes, fix them, and make them better. This shows respect to your viewers IMO. Great video btw.
Very nice video. I appreciate you getting right down to brass tacks and not wasting any time. The stance system is amazing, and it’s almost a crime there’s no stance meter that sits neatly beneath enemy/boss health bars. When the game released, a lot of people wrote the system off since “you can’t see the stance meter.” , but it’s massively influential to using great/colossal weapons.
A stance meter would be very informative, I would love to have one for enemies. I am sure that there is some kind of mod for it if you play on PC. I am glad that you enjoyed the video. I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Glad my comment on previous video was helpful. This version is much more complete and up to your usual high standards.
I assume for your Player-Poise video you will also cover hyper armour, since if you don’t it will be a very short video… My advice is be VERY thorough when researching this, as it’s extremely complicated and has lots of minor exceptions to what seem like general rules. And make sure what you read online is current, patches have changed things. For example “negative hyper armour” was a huge problem earlier on, it’s mostly been fixed. Exception being Running and Rolling R1’s with a Greatsword while your armour poise (not counting bullgoat talisman) is above 86. If you read old discussions about hyper armour it will likely be dominated by negative hyper armour complaints. But nowadays that’s only a concern in very niche circumstances.
Your comment definitely put into perspective the mistakes I made and it should be easy to not repeat them now. When it comes to the Poise video, I will definitely cover Hyper Armor. It is too important to not do so. Thank you again for your contribution. I appreciate your support.
Very informative vid, thank you!
Thank you! I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Hi my fellow docent! Thx 4 a great video! ♥️
I am glad that you enjoyed the video. Thank you for your comment and kind words.
My girlfriend is not a gamer. She sat down to watch this vid with me and how you explain this mechanic motivated her to play Elden Ring. Great video.
This means a lot to me. It’s always good for a new player to join the Souls. Thank you for your comment.
I did watch your first version, but never got around to commenting on it. Really appreciate you making a second version and correcting your mistakes.
At any rate, I don't take enough advantage of this mechanic even having known about this concept, including the specific attacks that actually help to break enemy stances like charged R2's. Also, thanks for the heads up on the NG+ penalties.
It is one of the most useful mechanics added to Elden Ring. I really enjoy playing with it. I appreciate your comment and kinds words. Thank you.
Playing Bonk is a complete different playstyle.. I went from Arcane (Katanas, Curved swords, daggers) to 2 Occult Great stars.. (great hammers)
Jump attacks hit like a truck.. Even in coop (where enemies have higher stance break resistance) many smaller enemies are stance broken by one single jump attack..
But it is also the simple strike damage brutality that is so effective.. Death Birds: -40 Resistance against Strike damage.. Slash: 10 Resistance.. It makes a massive difference! Also -40 Resistance against Holy attacks..
2 Envoy Horns and a Holy build would destroy those suckers..
Same for the annoying gargoyles: Slash defense: 35.. This is why Katanas dont do much damage.. Strike damage: Zero resistance.. Double Bonk jumping attacks hit him hard.. And on top of that you also get the stance breaking Bonus..
But as always, there are many bosses where it is the other way around: Godskin Duo: -10 Slash, 10 Strike defense.. In this case 2 curved great swords would be a melting machine..
Absolutely. Strike-type damage is definitely very useful against certain enemies. Definitely my favorite damage-type and playstyle. Thank you for your comment.
Nice one FG. I've never really understood the stance system - at least for bosses. I just dodge and slice with my katanas - if it happens it happens. But I've got a slower strength-based character going into ng+ so this'll come in quite helpful in strategising my battles.
I am glad to hear that you found the video useful. I appreciate your comment and kind words.
Thanks for the video friend. I have been wondering for a while now what is the stance damage decay rate for enemies, this is very helpful information. I didn’t know there was such a massive penalty to stance damage in NG+ ! That makes sense now why it seems to take longer to get a stance break in NG+7. I thought the Star Fists got a stealth nerf or something, little did I realize there is a penalty to stance damage in NG+, it makes sense
I am happy that you enjoyed the video. I appreciate your comment and kind words.
I hope you are still monitoring these comments. That being said:
I recently found and fell in love with the warped axe. Now what i would like to know is this, if you do a charged heavy and follow up with a second, the axe does a two swing followup charged R2. So ho much stance damage does the second charged R2 do. Do you ger a bonus for that? I recently broke Radahn with a few attacks. I cant remember exactly hiw many but i got 2 stance breaks during the fight. But i cant find any figures for the followup hits in any place i know to look. I love this moveset and i also like a block counter build. Add cragblade and this thing is seemingly very powerful, but im also getting better at the game so I dont know. I will be back at Radagon soon and I am hoping to break him and beast easily with this Axe.
I appreciate your informative videos. Thank you.
I always keep an eye on the comments. Sometimes it takes me a few days to respond, but I get to it eventually.
To answer your question, the second Charged R2's for the Warped Axe have two hits each. The stance damage works as follows:
- 2nd Charged R2 (1-hand): Stance Damage 30; 5 the first hit and 25 the second hit.
- 2nd Charged R2 (2-hand): Stance Damage 33; 5.5 the first hit and 27.5 the second hit.
This, of course, makes it worse than a charged R2 that only does one hit. The reason is simple, if you do not get both hits of the charged R2, you lose stance damage. You have to always get the two hits in order to take full advantage of the attack.
Furthermore, other axe-type weapons have the same stance damage for their charged R2's (30 and 33); but they only have to land one hit for the full damage.
The Warped Axe is a great weapon. It has very good Strength scaling, it takes advantage of the special "Quality Occult" scaling, and it has incredible passive bleed when infused down that path.
Thank you for your comment.
@FrownyGaming I did notice that since the warped axe's second attack comes out slightly faster than second does on other axes, it will stun some smaller enemies out of an attack when a normal axe will will be slow enough to allow them to get a hit on you. Sadly, it seems it won't work on anything faster or bigger than the omens. Example sewer Mohg. He has given me a lot of grief with this weapon, but it's my fault because I just have to find a punish window to be able to pull that combo. It's just my favorite move set it the game, right now. I just wish axes had a better powerstamce moveset. Which is a shame since one of the main NPC's has dual wield stormhawk axes.
Thanks STANCE dad ❤.
You are welcome. Thank you for your comment.
I have an unrelated question, in a way. I asked about warped axe and i have another one about the second Charged R2 attack. This has to do with the twinblade talisman. Does following charged R2 with Charged R2 count to the bonus of last hit on chain attacks? If so does this at all effect the stance damage it does.
If you are curious why i am asking, it is because my first successful playthrough, I relied on Square off and reposte on almost every major boss. I had a variety of builds that were consided "OP" but i ccould not for the life of me finish Maleketh, Hoara lou nor Elden beast with any other setup. Oh there was one that was very close, Dark moon great sword, that was poise breaking even easier.
So this run I wanted to mix bleed, with stance break and the warped axe has that status bonus, then i thought if two hit R2 procs bleed AND twinsblade talisman kicks in, that would be crazy, you see?
Im going to try to test it myself but im also not so good at figuring out this type of thing. Thanks
You rock!
I will be honest, I do not know details on the Twinblade Talisman. I have not researched it, so I cannot give you more information. In any case, I appreciate the comment.
@FrownyGaming I just did an experiment and there was no change in damage for Charged R2 "combo".
Not all weapons do the same stance damage. Chrigtt on TH-cam here has a great channel, and a discord with a lot of Elden Ring documents. I would provide a link but when I try my comment won't show up.
This is correct. As mentioned in the video:
Total Stance Damage = Base Stance Damage x Stance Motion Value
The Base Stance Damage is determined by weapon type, so they share most Stance Damage values. After that, it’s all motion values doing the work.
Thank you for your comment.
Does a bleed proc do stance damage? Enemies seem to stutter significantly when this happens
This is a very good question. The answer is "no". Bleed status effect procs (hemorrhage, in the game), does not deal any stance damage to enemies or poise damage to players.
That being said, Bleed procs still stagger the enemy or the player. What is that stagger? It is Damage Level.
Please take a look at this video: th-cam.com/video/gN_DpSWaFsA/w-d-xo.html
This is my Poise Guide. In the table of contents, you will find the "Damage Level" section. That is where you can get a more detailed answer.
In short, Damage Level governs the stagger a entity suffers when struck with an attack. Bleed procs cause a slight stagger, but they do not break poise (or stance). This means that it has Damage Level. If we look at the stagger from a Bleed proc, it is short but noticeable. I would guess that it is Damage Level 1 (like a Straight Sword hit).
Again, please watch the section of the video for much more information. This is just the overlay answer.
Thank you for your comment.
The only reliable stance breaking I can get is guard countering.
Guard Countering offers the highest amount of Stance damage for weapons (tied with Charged R2 on some weapon types), so it makes sense that it provides you with the breaks.
As for being reliable, you need to keep the pressure up to stop the Regen, or use weapons that provide higher Stance damage values. Thank you for your comment.
How do parries affect stance?
I'm not sure how to answer this questions. Do you mean what happens to an enemy Stance when you parry them?
@FrownyGaming yeah how much damage to stance to parried do? Do they interact differently and what else miscellaneous things are involved
Thank you for clarifying. This is what I can tell you.
Parry does not DIRECTLY affect Stance in any way.
All of the Parry-Type Ashes of War (or innate skills) do 0 Stance damage during the "parry" activity. In the same way, when we attack a parried enemy, Ripostes do 0 Stance damage. This means that enemy Stance will suffer no changes throughout the whole process of a parry. One exception is Carian Retaliation. In this case, if you parry a spell with Carian Retaliation and you spawn the three magic swords over your character, these magic swords do 3 Stance damage each. But the parry portion of Carian Retaliation continues to do 0 Stance Damage.
That being said, Parry does INDIRECTLY affect Stance in a negative way.
As I mentioned, the Parry does 0 Stance Damage. The Riposte deals 0 Stance Damage. Which means that the enemy will not take any Stance damage throughout the whole process of a parry strategy. As we mentioned in the video, if the enemy does not take Stance damage for a few seconds, its Stance will begin to regenerate. As a result, some enemy's Stances will begin to regenerate while you are in the middle of the Riposte animation.
I tested this on the same Omens that I showed in the video:
- I did a Great Hammer Charged R2 (39 Stance Damage)
- Then, I parried and Riposte the next attack (0 Stance Damage)
- And I ended with and Great Hammer Jump R2 (26 Stance Damage)
This should have broken the Omen (65 Total Stance), but it did not. The conclusion is that its Stance Stat must have regenerated in the middle of my Risposte.
In my opinion, this shows me that Parries and Stance-Breaking are two mechanics that do not synergize well.
Hope this answers your question.