AMG in 2020 - "We're firing all the Armada developers." 2021 - "We're not developing any new products for Armada." 2022 - "Armada is a complete game." 2023 - "Nothing has changed." 2024 - "We're taking down the sales pages for out of stock ships." Armada Fans - "Boy, AMG must have something really special planned for us!”
I feel like FFG are the most passionate about Star Wars. Also very very knowledgeable on the subject. Sucks though if their X-Wing crew left FFG which might be facts
FFG is not the same and I am not sure they would ever be able to do it correctly. FFG is a bunch of different people that would have to start over from square one. The only person/group I could see doing it well is Games Workshop at this point. I hate saying that because they have lots of Issues but it is what it is.
At times it seems like they are only holding the license so no one else can use it. I mean at one point x-wing was so popular the mechanic was sublet out to two different games.
Even more than that... there was Star Trek and the Dungeons and Dragons game.... Then there was Tanks! Panther vs Sherman which evolved to World of Tanks Miniatures Game which is very similar to XWIng and still has new releases every quarter or so.
That’s not how licenses work. There’s no “license for xwing.” Asmodee holds a license for Star Wars miniature games (and card games and board games). There’s not a world where AMG “gives up” the license for Xwing and Armada and someone else can start making new content for those games.
@ReallyBigBadAndy76 to be fair, I do believe Wizkids actually payed a one time use fee to use the X-Wing ruleset in Attack Wing back when FFG was seperate from Asmodee. This was during the first year of X-Wing in 2012 or 2013. If you want some evidence, this is listed in the Star Trek Attack Wing Wiki on Fandom. So it is true that Asmodee has licensing for the X-Wing ruleset. One game directly uses X-Wing's ruleset. But it did so before Asmodee came into the picture.
@@ReallyBigBadAndy76FFG had the patent on the template+dial based movement system (which they took and upgraded from another game that had a card-based movement system).
I took those comments the exact opposite, they can't say its "dead" and unsupported, because they've got to sell all of the leftover stock.... I sold all my xwing and Armanda stuff last month.... as it's been years since I last played... Been burned too many times by FFG/AMG.
I've been a lurker for a long time, but I just wanted to reach out from the void and say that I appreciate the effort you put into your videos and other content. Thanks Crabbok!
I'm so sick of things that i love getting ruined because people who don't care aren't making enough money. They're making money, just not enough money.
I want to pay you $1/hour to rake my leaves. I can't believe that I have to put up with these leaves now because, even though you would be making money, it isn't ENOUGH money for you. Selfish greedy jerk...
AMG has so many things they can do with X-wing. Every new show and comic brings new ships to the universe not to mention all of the 1.0 ships that they have not officially brought back yet. They could also bring in some upgrades that could fit across the factions to shack things up a bit. They need to get us excited to play X-wing again.
That would be great. I just honestly don’t ever see them doing new ships like FFG used to do. Granted I like the idea of ships on a sprue I doubt most agree with me on that.
The way I see it, the whole situation just feels like overbearing corporate shenanigans. X-wing and Armada were never a good fit for AMG. I think there are 3 realistic possibilities. 1) Both games get sunsetted because Asmodee views the manufacturing costs as being too painful for profit margains. Given the margain they likely make on MCP, Legion, and SP, which requires no assembly or painting during the manufacturing (sadly I think this is the most likely, but let's hope not). 2) As you said, they go to a more suitable dev team. There must have been some reason they went to AMG in the first place, and I'm guessing it's something to do with licensing and the cost of splitting up large Disney IPs accross multiple devs. Maybe this is no longer the case? 3) The games both convert to unpainted, parts on sprue type production. Now personally I would LOVE this solution, but at the same time I totally expect it would piss off a lot of players. The hobby expectation was never a part of these games previously, so it might be viewed as a kick in the teeth to suddenly expect non hobbyists to suddenly build and paint models to keep playing their preferred games. Fingers crossed on this, but I'm a little pesimistic after they decided to stop producing conversion kits. Perhaps that is signalling a new rule set.... but at the same time my pesimistic mind goes straight to the suits saying "yup, this product line isnt' making money. Nuke it"
@@HairyNick Miss your vids, amigo. You and Crabbok were some of my favorites, along with the old Sling Paint crew. Truly, X-Wing feels like a lifetime ago. It's a shame.
It's all about growing the player base now. Eventually games after a few year's fail to grow exponentially as they want and releasing new products for years old games really only feeds those who have built collections already, me included. So wouldn't expect major happenings unless they release a revamped new version where we will have to buy it all again.
My local stores cleared out all their X-wing and delisted it. Got a bunch of ships for $2 a piece. Armada my favorite game has not gone on sale, but they only got a handful of things on stock anyway. I’m afraid it’s over. They are simply not making money from it.
@@jimalexander687 honestly. I think FFG realized that infinite growth is BS. I’m an economist who just recreated scariff on Armada. That got me thinking that Star Wars is dead. It’s going to die when we die. There is no new generation. From a business side. Everyone who was ever going to buy these games: Already did. If you live in a world like historic war gamers who play for the love of the game and not to buy new things. That’s ok. Problem is that is extremely rare now. People are consumers. If they don’t have stuff to buy they won’t play. Infinitely publishing new waves of ships , and stronger new upgrades is a diminishing returns model.
My LGS has a ton of X-Wing and I feel it will go the same way. They did the same thing with Armada which sucks, I wish I had known before their stock disappeared since I do play it. I can’t blame them though, talking with the owner he explained it was practically rotting in the shelves.
I cleaned out all the separtist stuff from my store 3 weeks ago when I got into armada, last week everything was restocked It can really depend on the local meta
While I agree, I dont really think that studio exists. Most miniature game studios have no experience with games like X-Wing or Armada. These two games are both very large.
AMG must be kicking themselves surely, xwing tournaments attracted hundreds of players in 1 room to what not even 50 it the UK games expo (was nationals) this weekend.
@Crabbok - as someone who used to regularly frequent the FFG forums and who has seen how passionate you were about these games then and still are to this day, I can safely say that if AMG had even a fraction of the interest and dedication you do Armada and X-Wing would still be best sellers. Sadly, I don't think they ever had any interest in the games. They abandoned them, and we're seeing the results of that neglect.
I recently hosted a boardgame club at my kids school and I introduced the kids to X-Wing. We played Aces High in two groups and the kids just ate it up. They loved using the tools and "Shooting" each other. I think it would be really great for X-Wing to head to another studio that would really help build the community.
I agree that something is likely happening, but they just can't talk about it. What I found impressive is how their answer sounds either good or bad depending on how optimistic you are about the situation
This. I feel like a lot of people (including our host here) just want to say - again - the tired commentary that AMG somehow "Isn't equipped or doesn't want to" manage X-wing/Armada. There's little to no evidence that it's a lack of will or experience behind the delay, quite the opposite.
I'd be happy with say a 50-60 card set of cards (upgrades and ships) that go into stores for us to buy. Expanding factions where needed and maybe some points rebalances. There's plenty of things to fill in, and it's cheap to produce relative to making ships. Essentially a larger rapid reinforcements, but that brings in revenue.
Something I've been learning recently is that when an organization is silent and withholds information, the very human urge to fill in the missing information is almost impossible to resist. What kind of information you fill in the silence with will largely depend on how much you trust the organization. There may be good reasons (contractual, legal, etc) for staying silent, but it does come at a cost. The other thing is that trust has to be earned and the move to AMG resulted in the studio gaining three established games and but having to start from scratch with building trust in the communities. Thus, AMG and its reps find themselves in the unenviable position of needing to be more open and transparent with the Armada and X-Wing communities but not able to do so for reasons that they can't share with us. I agree that some kind of definitive communication is needed: either announce the games are finished, that they are moving somewhere else, or clearly announce the kind of support and development that they will be able to provide moving forward.
You can make the game card and template based with zero adjustments. Mark on the card where the movement template lines up. Ares Games did it with Wings of War (now Wings of Glory) as they started with just cards and added the miniatures later on.
Your interview was great. You’re very knowledgeable about these games and it helps us stay engaged and keep us buying new stuff as it comes out. I hope these companies realize your value to them and this community 😊
The whole lack of generic pilots actually points to the ‘obfuscated’ view the AMG Devs have taken, whichever of the 6 people/dogs/cats/canaries, are actually ‘developing’, it’s been a donkey show since they ‘redeveloped’ for 2.5. I mean oly geezus, lots of event planning but I haven’t seen much of ‘incentive’ for us, be veteran or new players to invest in X-Wing although I’ll bet nice and cheap on Amazon, not necessarily for the store owner I’ve noticed. When you see the missing link, generics, you’ll start to see all the OTHER ‘funky’ and ‘wonky’ dynamics that are out of whack. These devs need to start taking notes, oh wait, shatterpoint and the money shot, Legion, Licensed and ready to go, the notes were burned in a dumpster backend of 2021 with the presentation of the painting tips and Diorama theatre. I’m gonna kickstart a prediction… the ‘people’ that come up with a ‘homebrew’, super Star Wars/space combat game, using ruler, paper pencil and six sider ‘concept’ will rule more than ASSmodee could ever conceive…AMG needs to rethink Scooty puff Jr. after dismantling Scooty Puff Sr. Been a long time coming. Peace. (BTW, I actually like SOME of 2.5 conceptually, Ie;Initiative each turn was needed, only ‘1’ ship SHOULD be able to shoot on clouds & debris WITH penalties BUT you can start right there for the ‘homebrew’)
I am an x wing collector and player. I love the game and I wish nothing more then to see it strive and continue. Since AMG has gotten a hold of it it's hit a complete stall. I sadly feel like this is the end of armada and x wing and they are just not officially saying it. I hope I am wrong.....
he Armada comments I read as: We in the development would love to do more, the business reality is that Rapid reinforcements was the best they could do, and would look favorably in the future. They may very well have lots of stuff to put out if they can just get the green light, but But the profit making side of things says no new ships-weather it is fewer potential ships that would be popular (ie how many would buy malevolence or eclipse c class? Lukrahulk is popular but how many other unmade ships would be super popular) X Wing does Sound in trouble though. The moment it came up the corporate speak for “this isn’t profitable so we aren’t doing it” was on full throttle
The fact that WIll Schick was even able to tell you this much hints to me that the end is pretty nigh. Asmodee must be close to pulling the plug. The online shop has already just delisted all stock of Armada and X-Wing, including Battle of Endor.
Where I think AMG acted unprofessionally, is when they got X-Wing, they annonced the Huge ship Trident-Class Assault Ship. And they said, in a LIVE stream, that they were exited about this new ship, and that they were looking foward to it. Then, few months later, (after everyone bought it), changed the rules and points, not including huge ships, And never talked about it ever again. I feel like they set me up to buy something they wanted to get rid of.
@@Crabbok so are the rebel, imperial, & scum boxed sets…BTW, a good question for someone to ask in an interview, Marg Sabl Closure:what is ‘structure’? 😂 as far as a card and reference that is used in play currently, etc., nothing wrong with the curveball every now and again😉👍 Big C. 🙏🏻
Oh they didn't just not include huge ship points, they flat out announced the end of epic support there and then. 3 months after the hype and marketing of the Trident. If that isn't some cynical wolf of wall street shit I don't know what is
Look, companies and their representatives are always, ALWAYS, looking out for their bottom line. So any hope or tease of something customers want, they would be trumpeting it from the rooftops, Will said as much. The only conclusion is that its bad news. They still have product out there to sell, sitting on FLGS shelves, that they want to turn a profit on, and announcing the games demise would certainly clip those sales because nobody wants to buy into, or buy more of, a dead game. By not saying anything, Will said everything.
On a side note, dont take the criticism from the comments too much Crabbok. I know one commentor in particular has only been dogging your videos and the folks commenting on your videos for a while. While I do not share your optimistic view in the slightest, Im happy you can still have some optomism. I've considered these games dying even since they got Armada and ever since they transitioned X-Wing to 2.5 and I started struggling to find opponents. Fortunately, folks still play Armada around me thanks to one guy pushing it heavily and I still play 2.0 in the Legacy format. All I need to keep playing both is a great way to print on cardboard so that homebrew can truly thrive. X-Wing is easier since firing arcs dont really change, but Armada is more difficult.
Anything that continues the game with ships. RR3 as a bridge until product comes out is ok. But either prepainted or assembly required ships, or sell to a company that wants to produce.
This is the biggest lie that keeps getting perpetuated in the community. There is nothing to “sell” to a company that would make new content. Disney/LFL doesn’t give AMG a license specific to X-wing or Armada that they can transfer. Asmodee has a license to make Star Wars miniatures games. And the license is likely not transferable. If Asmodee loses the license, then whatever company gets the license to produce SW miniatures games is not going to make more content for Armada.
sell transfer whichever. Any company that will put out content. If FFG takes control of the games or whoever uses asmodee. As long as someone can put products out for armada or x wing, it would be better than AMG potentially doing nothing.
@@ReallyBigBadAndy76you are correct that currently, no one else outside of Asmodee can make Star Wars miniature games. However, I wonder when this contract runs out. Disney may decide to change the contract when this one is over like they did in the video game space with EA. If I'm honest, I believe that's the only chance X-Wing and Armada stand of ever getting real support again. But, I'm doubtful of this occurring.
@@dt2243unfortunately, FFG can't take these games back either. The devs who worked on them are gone. Some were instantly while others have left over time. Those who stayed have been working on other projects
@@dt2243 if development of these games was a profitable venture, asmodee would be investing in the games at AMG. It’s not going to be profitable just because they move it to a new development studio, and they aren’t suddenly going to decide to invest more in development.
X-Wing is the best it's ever been. Very balanced with a healthy and diverse meta. ROAD and scenario play is a good thing. Just need more love... reprints, starter sets and new ships.
Thousands of players currently selling their X-Wing collections on Facebook and eBay seem to disagree with you. You can't say a game is "the best it's ever been" when its player base has dwindled to less than 10% of what it was a decade ago.
The problem with AMG not being able to say anything is that they have been so bad with communication with the community for so long. Then the community watches as shatterpoint and legion get new product after new product with "promises" of reprints.
It's not about AMG not saying the things I want. If you look back over the time they have had ownership of these properties, they have just been bad at communicating at a company level, leaving most of their communication as informal interaction over painting streams or silence.
That's for getting us an update even though not much new.... locally both x-wing and ShatterPoint are struggling without FLGS 8 person OP kits and pts changes
It puts such a damper on new players joining these games with the state they’re in. They know that nothing new is going to come. It is so difficult to get into a game that you know is already in a downward spiral. And if they don’t put any work into adding or improving the games then not many are going join. I wish more people could love these games like us.
To some extent I agree. They sunsetted Imperial Assault. You'd think if Armada and X-wing were done done they too.would have been labeled "complete" games as well. My gut is folks with AMG or Asomdee are trying to make something happen but running into some kind of strategic (profit margin),licensing, or other brick wall. Maybe they are working on a completely new game at a different scale, like how they went IA to Legion to Shatterpoint. But it's a crazy world and not much would surprise me, especially if it is a disappointing surprise
I havent been a fan of how AMG has handled the changes they have made to X-Wing; my friends and I didnt enjoy 2.5 and just play 2.0. So, my preference would be for both X-Wing and Armada to go to another studio. In a perfect world it'd go right back to FFG, but there's a decent chance FFG isn't the studio it was when they lost Legion, X-Wing and Armada. It's not the studio name, but the people who work there that make the games and the original crew may not be there anymore. So, hopefully they can find a studio that fits these games. If the games aren't going to a different studio, I'd just prefer for them to finally sunset Armada so we aren't kept waiting. Edit: I will never not be bummed about what we missed out on by FFG being forced to hand over their games to AMG. If I recall, FFG presented their plans for the games through 2025 as part of their license renewal and the Disney rep said it was one of the best slates they'd ever seen. Somewhat shortly after that, FFG had to give everything up and we've likely missed out on the majority of what FFG had planned.
You’re right. Steven Horvath told that in GAMA 2020 during an interview with Team Covenant. The plans for Star Wars were huge. There were new card games and board games in development, apart from X-Wing and Armada.
I came from Privateer Press’s Monsterpocalypse game…which died suddenly mid-release with no official word from the company. It not only killed the game, it eventually drove me out of PP games. I hope that the guys at AMG (a few of them who came from that same PP) would take the lessons they saw inside that environment and not repeat those mistakes here. The License of course controls a lot of things, so if the best they can do is keep supporting the games, hopefully that’s enough
I think it's time to take armada and x-wing away from amg. Asmodee needs to re-evaluate their position at amg. Give them to a studio with less on their hands
I think in an ideal world AMG would get the staff needed to support these games. Realistically I think they will sunset them probably sooner rather than later
I expect that what they are waiting to say is when they'll phase out support for the games. The other scenarios are nice but assume a great deal more care than we've seen, and the communities have atrophied enough that I doubt any execs see much money in it. I really think they were never interested in X-wing and Armada and were happy to let them wither so they'd have an excuse to eventually drop them. The contempt they showed towards the games and players from the beginning just helped hurry it along. If X-wing goes just to community support I hope they'd roll back to 2.0. 2.5 killed all the small communities.
I wouldn't say that those who enjoy 2.5 should stop playing it, I'd just say they should come up with a way to support that varient so they can continue to play it. As for me, I too prefer 2.0. If you haven't seen the 2.0 Legacy project, I recommend checking it out. Ive been using their point updates for a couple years now.
I am a optimistic guy, so what I think is that something is going to be released and until then I am a fool and think that they will release squad II and a ship for each clone wars faction.
Armada never gained the steam that X-Wing had when it started, at least from what I observed. Which is a real shame cause the big ship battles are what draw me into Star Wars the most.
I think the X-Wing rules are basically OK where they are, tbh. I'd tweak the range 0 shooting, and maybe move to a 40 point system that allows for similar squad sizes, but better granularity for those ships that are, say, too cheap at 3 points but unplayable at 4. Maybe add a new scenario. I think we do have to keep in mind that any further rule changes are going to split the community again, even if they're wholly positive, so any changes will need to be very carefully considered.
I maybe wrong but my interpretation from that interview is that Will Shick isn't an Armada or X-wing player. The excitement he gets when discussing all the other games is big and the two of you ramble here and there but when discussing Armada of X-wing you can tell he doesn't get into it. He doesn't talk about it like he cares like does the other games. He cared more about trying to establish that he and everyone at AMG are not villains. The reality is that none of us think they're villains we just don't think they care. You dont have to have malice to not care about something youre not interested in and are willing to let fade away into obscurity and of course they're not gonna admit that because it looks bad. I wouldn't be surprised at all if when they finally pull the plug on Armada and X-wing they also come out with big announcements for all their other games and hope no one notices.
Years in I still cant believe people think these games are secretly being worked on. They are dead, you are being milked for sales, enjoy your community, play with your buddies and take it for what it is.
I might just be the cynical type, but I think they're going to be stopping support soon, at least for Armada. I think they're just waiting for their last production run, then saying alright, were done
If They are worried about burning retailers with overstock of their products they don't HAVE to stock the retailers, they can restock consistently on their website. they don't do it regularly there, that is is a concern. The Cardboard game idea is crazy, cheap to produce and allowing people to optionally bring 3d ships to that 2d enviroment would be fun.
2.0 was superior. 1st ed had so many problems by the end. It took me awhile to get all mine converted but it was worth it for the few years we had it pre AMG edition.
Just being hopeful here, but it would be so amazing to have them come back to armada with a full reprint wave and a release of scum and villainy as a faction finally! That would bring so many people back to the game.
It would also bring new players, I know a few who would love to play a pirate fleet. And I don't know how many would want them but I do know one person who wants the Resistance force from The Last Jedi
Speculation, what if the big announcements are that in order to keep xwing and armada viable, they are moving to sprue to lower costs of development. Would suck for sure as a person who would not that to happen. But if it extends the life of the games and allows for reprints, im all for it. a 3.0 with all SL cards would suck but that could also happen.
X-wing should get out of AMGs hands. they do their kind of games well, but they do not understand what made x-wing great, both 2,5 and the new army building system are great proofs of that. Best for for x-wing would be to reverse back to 2.0 games and list building system. New models could be plastic kits to accommodate inflation. Prices for pre painted ships would probably be crazy now and its a incentive for old players to get new models if they want. Get some regular store kits going again. Do it without hindering people using what they already bought. I think another round of that kind of pruning would kill the game for good.
Star Wars Armada is not dead until an official statment saying so. And even there, if they decide to go that route, like a Phoenix, Armada will rise from is hash to live for eternity 😀 P.S. I follow you on this Crabbok, at this point, any news will be good news. I my own opinion, shutting down this game could be a great error from AMG because there's still alot to be done even if it means that they could rise the price tag or go to sprue for ship. Armada is not dead!
I have a feeling both are going to sprus and non-painted. Hard plastic builds and players need to assemble and paint. This makes sense as AMG is making new hard plastics foe Legion.
Great follow up vid. I agree with you that xwing and armada need to get cheaper to produce. I would love if they used the same technology used to make those Star Wars 4d puzzle kits are used to make the models.
Unfortunately, I'm assuming that the game is "dead" (from a corporate perspective). I wish that it would be picked up by another company, but as you point out, there are better profit margins to be had out there. The game is not new and thus has a track record which will inform business decisions about investing in the game. After all this time, it would take somebody willing to take an initial loss to revive the game and community by delivering new content and raise awareness (adverts, promotions, organized play, etc.) Again, there are far better profit margins to be had (ex. CCGs) so I feel that, unfortunately, no company will generate any new content. I would love to see a "Continuing Committee"/"Players Committee" (a la Decipher's Star Trek and Star Wars CCGs) to develop the game content and maybe even pair up with some folks that run 3D printing to generate some additional ships.
What would I love to see from my game of choice, Armada? I would like to see the people who play Armada, realize that we don't new things to constantly buy in order to enjoy a game. Yeah, new things are exciting, but I got into Armada and stuck with it because it's the best TTWG I've ever played. I could play a game of Armada right now using nothing but Victory Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters and I would have fun! Because the game is fun! I'm never selling my Armada stuff off because of this, but I see plenty of people who comment about how they've sold off their collections because its a dead game. A game is only a dead game when you stop playing it. Armada certainly has enough stuff out now to where we can continue to enjoy and play the game for a lifetime. So to the people who have Armada collections and want to get rid of them because there's no new thing, I'd like for them to stop being consoooomers and start being players again.
Do you think they will ever officially sunset a game? I don't. The lack of clear communication is typically customer unfriendly corporate nonsense; if they were going to support them they'd surely just say so. This lack of information just sucks - I don't trust AMG, or Asmodee even slightly because if this.
Not releasing ships is one thing. Doing homebrew print in plays rather than a proper card pack is inexcusable. This just goes to show you never sell a successful property to someone who doesn't have a plan.
Would be nice for them to get what ever approvals they need so they can produce more ships as there would still be a demand I think for these, the games will still be kept alive by the community no matter what happens but hopefully they do something for both X-wing/Armada to have something more happen for them.
As I keep saying, give it back to people who have bought into xwing and the other game. If they can't either be bothered or that it's not viable to continue with the game in it's current format. If that is the case. Allow the people to run the game as a community group and let us use the 3d printed ships that they either can't make or don't want to make. This is already happening with xwing in the form of legacy xwing but can also work with armada. If the lack of news and support is to do with legalities, I don't see why they can't just be honest and say that. At least the community would know clearly then.
Clearly amg is waiting for the right time - maybe in another 5-10 years once they have fully killed X-Wing and Armada with a lack of support. Wish Asmodee would just give these properties back to FFG and let amg focus on their own little pet projects. I used to think the lack of X-Wing/Armada at our FLGS was largely due to Covid, but I have seen gaming make a comeback at the shops for many of the tabletop games (Warhammer, Warmachine, Battletech, Bloodbowl, etc), but X-Wing & Armada really never came back, and I think it is largely due to the middling support from amg. So disappointed with that transition.
@@buffalufacus If they were able to build it up once, they can do it again - and I'm sure there are some designers that flowed between projects. amg has shown that it either doesn't know what to do with X-Wing & Armada, or doesn't care.
@@JustinKase1969 No, literally all the designers that floated projects and ended up on the minis games got fired. FFG is pouring all their energy into SWU and their other board games. They will never get a mini's game like these again. Asmodee was even trying to split FFG into two companies before the big blow up anyways. X-wing moreso, but also Armada were flashes in the pan. They hit at the perfect time, got huge and now are just riding it out. X-wing already started to die in FFG's hands, the breakup and transfer was almost the nail in the coffin. I will say, AMG is struggling with it, but it's the best the game has ever been. People are just big butthurt.
I love armada, I love x wing....armada being pushed so easily to another hotel was a big oof. Hopefully they just let someone else who truly appreciates the fans become the owners instead.
Personally don't care if it's ffg or amg, so long as they have staff support to develop. Ideally to promote sales, it comes out on sprue but have a new 3rd spec like VSD III. Thus encouraging collectors to pick up kits and build out wysiwyg as well as open up options for new players.
I don't know if the High Republic have really pushed out many ships at all. I'm aware the Jedi have their starfighters but haven't seen anything else. Modern Hammerheads maybe?
Fire sale since 2021, sign went up 2022. Good luck space cowboys… (Homebrew will live forever, I seem to remember ‘chess’ and ‘poker’ had different ‘variations’ throughout the ages, why not Xwing or Armada? AMG can try to obfuscate our love for the game but they can’t ‘2112’ OUR models/fun. RUSH ‘2112’. Listen to it you’ll see/hear what I’m talking about 🤗)
Sadly, my assumption would be that they will be making the two games complete. With the whole embracer group nonsense going on I could see these two games being seen as costly and getting the plug pulled. Combine that with a lot of places clearing out X-Wing (don't know if Armada has the same thing going on) and it makes me think that the game isn't selling super well anymore and that new product is becoming hard to get from the supplier. If these games were to go to a different studio though I would be quite happy. I think the best scenario would be to bring X-wing to a state where it has multiple game modes. Dogfight which follows original 2.0 rules and points and scenario which follows the current system. That would keep the current player base from having to go back to 2.0 if they don't like it and hopefully bring back those who left with the rule change, are still playing 2.0 up to the last points or are playing an unofficial offshoot (legacy).
I think AMG is in ruff postion with X-wing and Armada were because of the self space problem and pre painted nature of the ships they don't make great margins and probably have people in the studio that want to do things with both games but are being hand tied with the corporate world as it's just profitable enough to keep selling old ships but wouldn't be when you include R&D costs to produce new ships. If they increase prices to justify new products or changes how the existing ones made(either lower quality or not painted) AMG is concerned the community will riot and not buy the product. Hence the frustration on their end with the corporate overlords and effective limbo.
True there very well could be a civil war at AMG with one side wanting to keep the games as they are and the other side wanting to change them up with sprue kits.
I don't know that there is a good way forward for current X-Wing. It's lived a long, full life and it could be time for 2nd Edition to end and AMG to start thinking about how they could create a new Star Wars dogfighting miniatures game in the future. Potentially one that allows for the use of some existing X-Wing minis, but its own game with its own start.
AMG in 2020 - "We're firing all the Armada developers."
2021 - "We're not developing any new products for Armada."
2022 - "Armada is a complete game."
2023 - "Nothing has changed."
2024 - "We're taking down the sales pages for out of stock ships."
Armada Fans - "Boy, AMG must have something really special planned for us!”
This video discusses more about X-Wing and Armada than AMG has in the past few years.
Truth.
Right?? Googling "Is X-Wing dead" has only ever turned up results from Reddit with people discussing the tournament scene
I would love for ffg to get armada and x wing back.
I think everybody at FFG that was doing x-wing has left the company.
@@spike2439 Especially after they went from gods gift to gaming to... not making games?
I feel like FFG are the most passionate about Star Wars. Also very very knowledgeable on the subject. Sucks though if their X-Wing crew left FFG which might be facts
It’s cute that you think that this would make any difference at all.
FFG is not the same and I am not sure they would ever be able to do it correctly. FFG is a bunch of different people that would have to start over from square one.
The only person/group I could see doing it well is Games Workshop at this point. I hate saying that because they have lots of Issues but it is what it is.
They need to keep up reprints.
That's all I'd like. I'm not a big Armada player, but I'd like to get a few more ships without having to break the bank.
At times it seems like they are only holding the license so no one else can use it. I mean at one point x-wing was so popular the mechanic was sublet out to two different games.
Even more than that... there was Star Trek and the Dungeons and Dragons game.... Then there was Tanks! Panther vs Sherman which evolved to World of Tanks Miniatures Game which is very similar to XWIng and still has new releases every quarter or so.
That’s not how licenses work. There’s no “license for xwing.” Asmodee holds a license for Star Wars miniature games (and card games and board games). There’s not a world where AMG “gives up” the license for Xwing and Armada and someone else can start making new content for those games.
@ReallyBigBadAndy76 to be fair, I do believe Wizkids actually payed a one time use fee to use the X-Wing ruleset in Attack Wing back when FFG was seperate from Asmodee. This was during the first year of X-Wing in 2012 or 2013. If you want some evidence, this is listed in the Star Trek Attack Wing Wiki on Fandom.
So it is true that Asmodee has licensing for the X-Wing ruleset. One game directly uses X-Wing's ruleset. But it did so before Asmodee came into the picture.
@@ReallyBigBadAndy76FFG had the patent on the template+dial based movement system (which they took and upgraded from another game that had a card-based movement system).
@@Tvboy777 that’s fine, but completely irrelevant. Even the name of the game (x-wing) is copyright LFL.
I took those comments the exact opposite, they can't say its "dead" and unsupported, because they've got to sell all of the leftover stock.... I sold all my xwing and Armanda stuff last month.... as it's been years since I last played... Been burned too many times by FFG/AMG.
I've been a lurker for a long time, but I just wanted to reach out from the void and say that I appreciate the effort you put into your videos and other content. Thanks Crabbok!
I appreciate that!
I envy your optimism.
I feel like I have been burned by the thought that surely there will be big news soon a few times too often.
The websites being turned off will be big news and still in the realm of possibility.
I'm so sick of things that i love getting ruined because people who don't care aren't making enough money. They're making money, just not enough money.
Sadly this is the state of things but you have to look at it from their prospective too. Can't afford to make it if it don't sell.
I want to pay you $1/hour to rake my leaves. I can't believe that I have to put up with these leaves now because, even though you would be making money, it isn't ENOUGH money for you. Selfish greedy jerk...
AMG has so many things they can do with X-wing. Every new show and comic brings new ships to the universe not to mention all of the 1.0 ships that they have not officially brought back yet. They could also bring in some upgrades that could fit across the factions to shack things up a bit. They need to get us excited to play X-wing again.
That would be great. I just honestly don’t ever see them doing new ships like FFG used to do. Granted I like the idea of ships on a sprue I doubt most agree with me on that.
Oh good. I didn't have time to watch the full video yet, thanks for the summary. :)
Glad it was helpful!
The way I see it, the whole situation just feels like overbearing corporate shenanigans. X-wing and Armada were never a good fit for AMG. I think there are 3 realistic possibilities.
1) Both games get sunsetted because Asmodee views the manufacturing costs as being too painful for profit margains. Given the margain they likely make on MCP, Legion, and SP, which requires no assembly or painting during the manufacturing (sadly I think this is the most likely, but let's hope not).
2) As you said, they go to a more suitable dev team. There must have been some reason they went to AMG in the first place, and I'm guessing it's something to do with licensing and the cost of splitting up large Disney IPs accross multiple devs. Maybe this is no longer the case?
3) The games both convert to unpainted, parts on sprue type production. Now personally I would LOVE this solution, but at the same time I totally expect it would piss off a lot of players. The hobby expectation was never a part of these games previously, so it might be viewed as a kick in the teeth to suddenly expect non hobbyists to suddenly build and paint models to keep playing their preferred games.
Fingers crossed on this, but I'm a little pesimistic after they decided to stop producing conversion kits. Perhaps that is signalling a new rule set.... but at the same time my pesimistic mind goes straight to the suits saying "yup, this product line isnt' making money. Nuke it"
@@HairyNick Miss your vids, amigo. You and Crabbok were some of my favorites, along with the old Sling Paint crew. Truly, X-Wing feels like a lifetime ago. It's a shame.
It's all about growing the player base now. Eventually games after a few year's fail to grow exponentially as they want and releasing new products for years old games really only feeds those who have built collections already, me included. So wouldn't expect major happenings unless they release a revamped new version where we will have to buy it all again.
Totally agree, there's definitely something on the horizon. Hopefully we'll know soon! Thank you for the amazing interview and its summary
My local stores cleared out all their X-wing and delisted it. Got a bunch of ships for $2 a piece.
Armada my favorite game has not gone on sale, but they only got a handful of things on stock anyway.
I’m afraid it’s over. They are simply not making money from it.
Agreed. But they're not making money on it, because they've abandoned it.
@@jimalexander687 honestly. I think FFG realized that infinite growth is BS. I’m an economist who just recreated scariff on Armada.
That got me thinking that Star Wars is dead. It’s going to die when we die. There is no new generation.
From a business side. Everyone who was ever going to buy these games: Already did.
If you live in a world like historic war gamers who play for the love of the game and not to buy new things. That’s ok. Problem is that is extremely rare now. People are consumers. If they don’t have stuff to buy they won’t play.
Infinitely publishing new waves of ships , and stronger new upgrades is a diminishing returns model.
My LGS has a ton of X-Wing and I feel it will go the same way. They did the same thing with Armada which sucks, I wish I had known before their stock disappeared since I do play it. I can’t blame them though, talking with the owner he explained it was practically rotting in the shelves.
@@Rage_TM I bought everything. Hope to play with my kids.
Hate the idea of a game has to be selling to be played
I cleaned out all the separtist stuff from my store 3 weeks ago when I got into armada, last week everything was restocked
It can really depend on the local meta
I would love to see X-Wing and Armada going away from AMG and to a studio that wants them and is experienced and equipped to handle them.
While I agree, I dont really think that studio exists. Most miniature game studios have no experience with games like X-Wing or Armada. These two games are both very large.
AMG must be kicking themselves surely, xwing tournaments attracted hundreds of players in 1 room to what not even 50 it the UK games expo (was nationals) this weekend.
@Crabbok - as someone who used to regularly frequent the FFG forums and who has seen how passionate you were about these games then and still are to this day, I can safely say that if AMG had even a fraction of the interest and dedication you do Armada and X-Wing would still be best sellers. Sadly, I don't think they ever had any interest in the games. They abandoned them, and we're seeing the results of that neglect.
They killed XWing with 2.5
I recently hosted a boardgame club at my kids school and I introduced the kids to X-Wing. We played Aces High in two groups and the kids just ate it up. They loved using the tools and "Shooting" each other. I think it would be really great for X-Wing to head to another studio that would really help build the community.
I agree that something is likely happening, but they just can't talk about it. What I found impressive is how their answer sounds either good or bad depending on how optimistic you are about the situation
This. I feel like a lot of people (including our host here) just want to say - again - the tired commentary that AMG somehow "Isn't equipped or doesn't want to" manage X-wing/Armada. There's little to no evidence that it's a lack of will or experience behind the delay, quite the opposite.
I'd be happy with say a 50-60 card set of cards (upgrades and ships) that go into stores for us to buy. Expanding factions where needed and maybe some points rebalances. There's plenty of things to fill in, and it's cheap to produce relative to making ships. Essentially a larger rapid reinforcements, but that brings in revenue.
Something I've been learning recently is that when an organization is silent and withholds information, the very human urge to fill in the missing information is almost impossible to resist. What kind of information you fill in the silence with will largely depend on how much you trust the organization. There may be good reasons (contractual, legal, etc) for staying silent, but it does come at a cost. The other thing is that trust has to be earned and the move to AMG resulted in the studio gaining three established games and but having to start from scratch with building trust in the communities. Thus, AMG and its reps find themselves in the unenviable position of needing to be more open and transparent with the Armada and X-Wing communities but not able to do so for reasons that they can't share with us. I agree that some kind of definitive communication is needed: either announce the games are finished, that they are moving somewhere else, or clearly announce the kind of support and development that they will be able to provide moving forward.
You can make the game card and template based with zero adjustments. Mark on the card where the movement template lines up. Ares Games did it with Wings of War (now Wings of Glory) as they started with just cards and added the miniatures later on.
Your interview was great. You’re very knowledgeable about these games and it helps us stay engaged and keep us buying new stuff as it comes out. I hope these companies realize your value to them and this community 😊
I like 2.5, except for the lack of generics. I think that's the kind of thing a different company could course correct.
The whole lack of generic pilots actually points to the ‘obfuscated’ view the AMG Devs have taken, whichever of the 6 people/dogs/cats/canaries, are actually ‘developing’, it’s been a donkey show since they ‘redeveloped’ for 2.5.
I mean oly geezus, lots of event planning but I haven’t seen much of ‘incentive’ for us, be veteran or new players to invest in X-Wing although I’ll bet nice and cheap on Amazon, not necessarily for the store owner I’ve noticed.
When you see the missing link, generics, you’ll start to see all the OTHER ‘funky’ and ‘wonky’ dynamics that are out of whack. These devs need to start taking notes, oh wait, shatterpoint and the money shot, Legion, Licensed and ready to go, the notes were burned in a dumpster backend of 2021 with the presentation of the painting tips and Diorama theatre.
I’m gonna kickstart a prediction…
the ‘people’ that come up with a ‘homebrew’, super Star Wars/space combat game, using ruler, paper pencil and six sider ‘concept’ will rule more than ASSmodee could ever conceive…AMG needs to rethink Scooty puff Jr. after dismantling Scooty Puff Sr. Been a long time coming. Peace.
(BTW, I actually like SOME of 2.5 conceptually, Ie;Initiative each turn was needed, only ‘1’ ship SHOULD be able to shoot on clouds & debris WITH penalties BUT you can start right there for the ‘homebrew’)
Lose the scenarios and the random initiative roll and they're going in the right direction
I am an x wing collector and player. I love the game and I wish nothing more then to see it strive and continue. Since AMG has gotten a hold of it it's hit a complete stall. I sadly feel like this is the end of armada and x wing and they are just not officially saying it. I hope I am wrong.....
he Armada comments I read as:
We in the development would love to do more, the business reality is that Rapid reinforcements was the best they could do, and would look favorably in the future.
They may very well have lots of stuff to put out if they can just get the green light, but
But the profit making side of things says no new ships-weather it is fewer potential ships that would be popular (ie how many would buy malevolence or eclipse c class? Lukrahulk is popular but how many other unmade ships would be super popular)
X Wing does Sound in trouble though.
The moment it came up the corporate speak for “this isn’t profitable so we aren’t doing it” was on full throttle
Just waiting for the announcement that Xwing is a complete game as well, and that all ships are now legal to play. ...
I'm just relieved that Legion is still going to be around.
The fact that WIll Schick was even able to tell you this much hints to me that the end is pretty nigh. Asmodee must be close to pulling the plug. The online shop has already just delisted all stock of Armada and X-Wing, including Battle of Endor.
Where I think AMG acted unprofessionally, is when they got X-Wing, they annonced the Huge ship Trident-Class Assault Ship. And they said, in a LIVE stream, that they were exited about this new ship, and that they were looking foward to it.
Then, few months later, (after everyone bought it), changed the rules and points, not including huge ships, And never talked about it ever again.
I feel like they set me up to buy something they wanted to get rid of.
Fair point. It's a ship that is illegal in the game in every current format outside of homebrew. And it's still for sale.
@@Crabbok so are the rebel, imperial, & scum boxed sets…BTW, a good question for someone to ask in an interview, Marg Sabl Closure:what is ‘structure’? 😂 as far as a card and reference that is used in play currently, etc., nothing wrong with the curveball every now and again😉👍 Big C. 🙏🏻
Oh they didn't just not include huge ship points, they flat out announced the end of epic support there and then. 3 months after the hype and marketing of the Trident. If that isn't some cynical wolf of wall street shit I don't know what is
@@aaronau433 Soooo True! And yet, ‘OUR’ obfuscated view? No Will & company. No. 🖖
Look, companies and their representatives are always, ALWAYS, looking out for their bottom line. So any hope or tease of something customers want, they would be trumpeting it from the rooftops, Will said as much. The only conclusion is that its bad news. They still have product out there to sell, sitting on FLGS shelves, that they want to turn a profit on, and announcing the games demise would certainly clip those sales because nobody wants to buy into, or buy more of, a dead game. By not saying anything, Will said everything.
On a side note, dont take the criticism from the comments too much Crabbok. I know one commentor in particular has only been dogging your videos and the folks commenting on your videos for a while.
While I do not share your optimistic view in the slightest, Im happy you can still have some optomism. I've considered these games dying even since they got Armada and ever since they transitioned X-Wing to 2.5 and I started struggling to find opponents.
Fortunately, folks still play Armada around me thanks to one guy pushing it heavily and I still play 2.0 in the Legacy format. All I need to keep playing both is a great way to print on cardboard so that homebrew can truly thrive. X-Wing is easier since firing arcs dont really change, but Armada is more difficult.
Anything that continues the game with ships. RR3 as a bridge until product comes out is ok. But either prepainted or assembly required ships, or sell to a company that wants to produce.
This is the biggest lie that keeps getting perpetuated in the community. There is nothing to “sell” to a company that would make new content. Disney/LFL doesn’t give AMG a license specific to X-wing or Armada that they can transfer. Asmodee has a license to make Star Wars miniatures games. And the license is likely not transferable. If Asmodee loses the license, then whatever company gets the license to produce SW miniatures games is not going to make more content for Armada.
sell transfer whichever. Any company that will put out content. If FFG takes control of the games or whoever uses asmodee. As long as someone can put products out for armada or x wing, it would be better than AMG potentially doing nothing.
@@ReallyBigBadAndy76you are correct that currently, no one else outside of Asmodee can make Star Wars miniature games. However, I wonder when this contract runs out. Disney may decide to change the contract when this one is over like they did in the video game space with EA. If I'm honest, I believe that's the only chance X-Wing and Armada stand of ever getting real support again. But, I'm doubtful of this occurring.
@@dt2243unfortunately, FFG can't take these games back either. The devs who worked on them are gone. Some were instantly while others have left over time. Those who stayed have been working on other projects
@@dt2243 if development of these games was a profitable venture, asmodee would be investing in the games at AMG. It’s not going to be profitable just because they move it to a new development studio, and they aren’t suddenly going to decide to invest more in development.
I think he gave the best answer he could. They want to do things just asmodee and embracer over them is not pushing due to profit value.
I just noticed this morning X-wing and Armada are completely sold on on the Asmodee store.
Thanks for being a strong advocate for the SW gaming community, mang! Really looking forward to seeing what aqua droids will do for CIS in Legion.
Sounds to me that they have nothing planned and don’t want to reveal that and risk losing sales.
This is exactly the case. All the speculation is just noise. This right here is what’s happening.
X-Wing is the best it's ever been. Very balanced with a healthy and diverse meta. ROAD and scenario play is a good thing. Just need more love... reprints, starter sets and new ships.
Thousands of players currently selling their X-Wing collections on Facebook and eBay seem to disagree with you. You can't say a game is "the best it's ever been" when its player base has dwindled to less than 10% of what it was a decade ago.
The problem with AMG not being able to say anything is that they have been so bad with communication with the community for so long. Then the community watches as shatterpoint and legion get new product after new product with "promises" of reprints.
Not saying the things you want is not “being bad with communication.”
It's not about AMG not saying the things I want. If you look back over the time they have had ownership of these properties, they have just been bad at communicating at a company level, leaving most of their communication as informal interaction over painting streams or silence.
That's for getting us an update even though not much new.... locally both x-wing and ShatterPoint are struggling without FLGS 8 person OP kits and pts changes
I just need them to keep up with the reprints so that I can get certain ships I would really like to have in my fleets/collection.
you mean, like, the TIE Aggressor and the Star Wing?
@@electricfootballhero1349 amongst others like the Imperial Light Cruisers and such. Just basically all of it to be honest.
Yeah I would really like to get two more Venator's with out having to refinance my house
It puts such a damper on new players joining these games with the state they’re in. They know that nothing new is going to come. It is so difficult to get into a game that you know is already in a downward spiral. And if they don’t put any work into adding or improving the games then not many are going join. I wish more people could love these games like us.
To some extent I agree. They sunsetted Imperial Assault. You'd think if Armada and X-wing were done done they too.would have been labeled "complete" games as well. My gut is folks with AMG or Asomdee are trying to make something happen but running into some kind of strategic (profit margin),licensing, or other brick wall.
Maybe they are working on a completely new game at a different scale, like how they went IA to Legion to Shatterpoint.
But it's a crazy world and not much would surprise me, especially if it is a disappointing surprise
I havent been a fan of how AMG has handled the changes they have made to X-Wing; my friends and I didnt enjoy 2.5 and just play 2.0. So, my preference would be for both X-Wing and Armada to go to another studio.
In a perfect world it'd go right back to FFG, but there's a decent chance FFG isn't the studio it was when they lost Legion, X-Wing and Armada. It's not the studio name, but the people who work there that make the games and the original crew may not be there anymore. So, hopefully they can find a studio that fits these games.
If the games aren't going to a different studio, I'd just prefer for them to finally sunset Armada so we aren't kept waiting.
Edit: I will never not be bummed about what we missed out on by FFG being forced to hand over their games to AMG. If I recall, FFG presented their plans for the games through 2025 as part of their license renewal and the Disney rep said it was one of the best slates they'd ever seen. Somewhat shortly after that, FFG had to give everything up and we've likely missed out on the majority of what FFG had planned.
You’re right. Steven Horvath told that in GAMA 2020 during an interview with Team Covenant. The plans for Star Wars were huge. There were new card games and board games in development, apart from X-Wing and Armada.
I came from Privateer Press’s Monsterpocalypse game…which died suddenly mid-release with no official word from the company. It not only killed the game, it eventually drove me out of PP games. I hope that the guys at AMG (a few of them who came from that same PP) would take the lessons they saw inside that environment and not repeat those mistakes here. The License of course controls a lot of things, so if the best they can do is keep supporting the games, hopefully that’s enough
Id love to hear that the other x wing factions get starter squadron packs.
I don't think that will happen. Most people in the game do not need reprints. They want new products.
I think it's time to take armada and x-wing away from amg. Asmodee needs to re-evaluate their position at amg. Give them to a studio with less on their hands
Quick little question for you Crabbok. Where did you find the STL for that beautiful Subjugator model for Armada?
Wes Janson 3d on Etsy
I think in an ideal world AMG would get the staff needed to support these games. Realistically I think they will sunset them probably sooner rather than later
Bring Epic Ships back.
Love your videos! One of the reasons I got into x-wing!
I like your optimistic appraisal of the situation.
Great work brother! Loved the interview
So, no news on the reprint of the Alpha-Class Star Wing (Assault Gunboat)? Shame, as I want to buy several.
I expect that what they are waiting to say is when they'll phase out support for the games. The other scenarios are nice but assume a great deal more care than we've seen, and the communities have atrophied enough that I doubt any execs see much money in it. I really think they were never interested in X-wing and Armada and were happy to let them wither so they'd have an excuse to eventually drop them. The contempt they showed towards the games and players from the beginning just helped hurry it along.
If X-wing goes just to community support I hope they'd roll back to 2.0. 2.5 killed all the small communities.
I wouldn't say that those who enjoy 2.5 should stop playing it, I'd just say they should come up with a way to support that varient so they can continue to play it.
As for me, I too prefer 2.0. If you haven't seen the 2.0 Legacy project, I recommend checking it out. Ive been using their point updates for a couple years now.
I am a optimistic guy, so what I think is that something is going to be released and until then I am a fool and think that they will release squad II and a ship for each clone wars faction.
Yes, they should at least flesh out the clone wars fleets.
It sucks that they are so cagey and non-committal about it.
We don't want more carboard, we want ships!
We need some aggressive negotiations! 😏
2.5 rules are good. Add a few more scenarios. Change points to 40 or 50 to allow for more granularity list building.
Armada never gained the steam that X-Wing had when it started, at least from what I observed. Which is a real shame cause the big ship battles are what draw me into Star Wars the most.
I think the X-Wing rules are basically OK where they are, tbh. I'd tweak the range 0 shooting, and maybe move to a 40 point system that allows for similar squad sizes, but better granularity for those ships that are, say, too cheap at 3 points but unplayable at 4. Maybe add a new scenario. I think we do have to keep in mind that any further rule changes are going to split the community again, even if they're wholly positive, so any changes will need to be very carefully considered.
100%. Spot on.
I maybe wrong but my interpretation from that interview is that Will Shick isn't an Armada or X-wing player. The excitement he gets when discussing all the other games is big and the two of you ramble here and there but when discussing Armada of X-wing you can tell he doesn't get into it. He doesn't talk about it like he cares like does the other games. He cared more about trying to establish that he and everyone at AMG are not villains. The reality is that none of us think they're villains we just don't think they care. You dont have to have malice to not care about something youre not interested in and are willing to let fade away into obscurity and of course they're not gonna admit that because it looks bad. I wouldn't be surprised at all if when they finally pull the plug on Armada and X-wing they also come out with big announcements for all their other games and hope no one notices.
If AMG is killing X Wing I will not buy any game coming from AMG!!!
Years in I still cant believe people think these games are secretly being worked on. They are dead, you are being milked for sales, enjoy your community, play with your buddies and take it for what it is.
Crabbok, you my friend are far more optimistic than I
I might just be the cynical type, but I think they're going to be stopping support soon, at least for Armada. I think they're just waiting for their last production run, then saying alright, were done
Just got into Armada would love too see it get more attention at least reprints of ships that are out
I suspect the Armada players need to organize a Continuing Committee if not already in existence.
If They are worried about burning retailers with overstock of their products they don't HAVE to stock the retailers, they can restock consistently on their website. they don't do it regularly there, that is is a concern. The Cardboard game idea is crazy, cheap to produce and allowing people to optionally bring 3d ships to that 2d enviroment would be fun.
As an active Xwing 1.0 player who had too many ships to convert to 2.0... Suckers!
2.0 was superior. 1st ed had so many problems by the end. It took me awhile to get all mine converted but it was worth it for the few years we had it pre AMG edition.
@@danteunknown2108 Shure bro 👌
Just being hopeful here, but it would be so amazing to have them come back to armada with a full reprint wave and a release of scum and villainy as a faction finally! That would bring so many people back to the game.
It would also bring new players, I know a few who would love to play a pirate fleet. And I don't know how many would want them but I do know one person who wants the Resistance force from The Last Jedi
Speculation, what if the big announcements are that in order to keep xwing and armada viable, they are moving to sprue to lower costs of development. Would suck for sure as a person who would not that to happen. But if it extends the life of the games and allows for reprints, im all for it. a 3.0 with all SL cards would suck but that could also happen.
X-wing should get out of AMGs hands. they do their kind of games well, but they do not understand what made x-wing great, both 2,5 and the new army building system are great proofs of that. Best for for x-wing would be to reverse back to 2.0 games and list building system. New models could be plastic kits to accommodate inflation. Prices for pre painted ships would probably be crazy now and its a incentive for old players to get new models if they want. Get some regular store kits going again. Do it without hindering people using what they already bought. I think another round of that kind of pruning would kill the game for good.
Star Wars Armada is not dead until an official statment saying so. And even there, if they decide to go that route, like a Phoenix, Armada will rise from is hash to live for eternity 😀
P.S. I follow you on this Crabbok, at this point, any news will be good news. I my own opinion, shutting down this game could be a great error from AMG because there's still alot to be done even if it means that they could rise the price tag or go to sprue for ship. Armada is not dead!
I have a feeling both are going to sprus and non-painted. Hard plastic builds and players need to assemble and paint. This makes sense as AMG is making new hard plastics foe Legion.
Great follow up vid. I agree with you that xwing and armada need to get cheaper to produce. I would love if they used the same technology used to make those Star Wars 4d puzzle kits are used to make the models.
I would love a second edition for armada 🙈
Unfortunately, I'm assuming that the game is "dead" (from a corporate perspective). I wish that it would be picked up by another company, but as you point out, there are better profit margins to be had out there. The game is not new and thus has a track record which will inform business decisions about investing in the game. After all this time, it would take somebody willing to take an initial loss to revive the game and community by delivering new content and raise awareness (adverts, promotions, organized play, etc.) Again, there are far better profit margins to be had (ex. CCGs) so I feel that, unfortunately, no company will generate any new content. I would love to see a "Continuing Committee"/"Players Committee" (a la Decipher's Star Trek and Star Wars CCGs) to develop the game content and maybe even pair up with some folks that run 3D printing to generate some additional ships.
What would I love to see from my game of choice, Armada? I would like to see the people who play Armada, realize that we don't new things to constantly buy in order to enjoy a game. Yeah, new things are exciting, but I got into Armada and stuck with it because it's the best TTWG I've ever played. I could play a game of Armada right now using nothing but Victory Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters and I would have fun! Because the game is fun! I'm never selling my Armada stuff off because of this, but I see plenty of people who comment about how they've sold off their collections because its a dead game. A game is only a dead game when you stop playing it. Armada certainly has enough stuff out now to where we can continue to enjoy and play the game for a lifetime.
So to the people who have Armada collections and want to get rid of them because there's no new thing, I'd like for them to stop being consoooomers and start being players again.
Carbbok, help save Armada, you are our only hope...
Do you think they will ever officially sunset a game? I don't. The lack of clear communication is typically customer unfriendly corporate nonsense; if they were going to support them they'd surely just say so. This lack of information just sucks - I don't trust AMG, or Asmodee even slightly because if this.
A disruption in communications can only mean one thing....... INVASION!... Or cancelation.
They did it with Imperial Assault
Not releasing ships is one thing. Doing homebrew print in plays rather than a proper card pack is inexcusable.
This just goes to show you never sell a successful property to someone who doesn't have a plan.
What homebrew print n play have they done? Are you just getting heated over theory crafting?
I would love to play x-wing but I’m afraid they discontinued it before I even start collecting
Players are selling their collections in droves on Facebook Marketplace and eBay.
Would be nice for them to get what ever approvals they need so they can produce more ships as there would still be a demand I think for these, the games will still be kept alive by the community no matter what happens but hopefully they do something for both X-wing/Armada to have something more happen for them.
As I keep saying, give it back to people who have bought into xwing and the other game. If they can't either be bothered or that it's not viable to continue with the game in it's current format. If that is the case. Allow the people to run the game as a community group and let us use the 3d printed ships that they either can't make or don't want to make. This is already happening with xwing in the form of legacy xwing but can also work with armada. If the lack of news and support is to do with legalities, I don't see why they can't just be honest and say that. At least the community would know clearly then.
Clearly amg is waiting for the right time - maybe in another 5-10 years once they have fully killed X-Wing and Armada with a lack of support. Wish Asmodee would just give these properties back to FFG and let amg focus on their own little pet projects. I used to think the lack of X-Wing/Armada at our FLGS was largely due to Covid, but I have seen gaming make a comeback at the shops for many of the tabletop games (Warhammer, Warmachine, Battletech, Bloodbowl, etc), but X-Wing & Armada really never came back, and I think it is largely due to the middling support from amg. So disappointed with that transition.
FFG is a board and card game company. They do not do minis games anymore, and every single dev from the past got canned in the transition.
@@buffalufacus If they were able to build it up once, they can do it again - and I'm sure there are some designers that flowed between projects. amg has shown that it either doesn't know what to do with X-Wing & Armada, or doesn't care.
@@JustinKase1969 No, literally all the designers that floated projects and ended up on the minis games got fired. FFG is pouring all their energy into SWU and their other board games. They will never get a mini's game like these again. Asmodee was even trying to split FFG into two companies before the big blow up anyways. X-wing moreso, but also Armada were flashes in the pan. They hit at the perfect time, got huge and now are just riding it out. X-wing already started to die in FFG's hands, the breakup and transfer was almost the nail in the coffin. I will say, AMG is struggling with it, but it's the best the game has ever been. People are just big butthurt.
I love armada, I love x wing....armada being pushed so easily to another hotel was a big oof.
Hopefully they just let someone else who truly appreciates the fans become the owners instead.
Personally don't care if it's ffg or amg, so long as they have staff support to develop. Ideally to promote sales, it comes out on sprue but have a new 3rd spec like VSD III. Thus encouraging collectors to pick up kits and build out wysiwyg as well as open up options for new players.
Ffg would do the games justice back in hands of the creators… I’m not big on high republic but I would buy expansions of old and high republic
I don't know if the High Republic have really pushed out many ships at all. I'm aware the Jedi have their starfighters but haven't seen anything else. Modern Hammerheads maybe?
The creators don't exist anymore. FFG is for board and card games. All the OG devs are gone, they got canned by Asmodee
Surprise! An Armada updated rules guide!
Thanks!
I would like Armada and x-wing to go back to ffg. And for x wing go to a mix of 2.0 and 2.5 rules
Fire sale since 2021, sign went up 2022. Good luck space cowboys…
(Homebrew will live forever, I seem to remember ‘chess’ and ‘poker’ had different ‘variations’ throughout the ages, why not Xwing or Armada? AMG can try to obfuscate our love for the game but they can’t ‘2112’ OUR models/fun. RUSH ‘2112’. Listen to it you’ll see/hear what I’m talking about 🤗)
Sadly, my assumption would be that they will be making the two games complete. With the whole embracer group nonsense going on I could see these two games being seen as costly and getting the plug pulled. Combine that with a lot of places clearing out X-Wing (don't know if Armada has the same thing going on) and it makes me think that the game isn't selling super well anymore and that new product is becoming hard to get from the supplier. If these games were to go to a different studio though I would be quite happy. I think the best scenario would be to bring X-wing to a state where it has multiple game modes. Dogfight which follows original 2.0 rules and points and scenario which follows the current system. That would keep the current player base from having to go back to 2.0 if they don't like it and hopefully bring back those who left with the rule change, are still playing 2.0 up to the last points or are playing an unofficial offshoot (legacy).
I do enjoy Legacy.
What your describing is essentially the Wild Space format in Legacy.
I think xwing should keep the 2.5 squad building put keep the 2.0 rules. That’s the way it is at the store and it works great!
Revert back to 2.0 but with AMGs obstacle rules. No red focus bumps. No team damage, bumps, the range 0 shooting can stay...
I'd still remove range 0 shooting. But ya, I agree 😂
Is Armada still going? I thought it was on its way out
I think AMG is in ruff postion with X-wing and Armada were because of the self space problem and pre painted nature of the ships they don't make great margins and probably have people in the studio that want to do things with both games but are being hand tied with the corporate world as it's just profitable enough to keep selling old ships but wouldn't be when you include R&D costs to produce new ships. If they increase prices to justify new products or changes how the existing ones made(either lower quality or not painted) AMG is concerned the community will riot and not buy the product. Hence the frustration on their end with the corporate overlords and effective limbo.
True there very well could be a civil war at AMG with one side wanting to keep the games as they are and the other side wanting to change them up with sprue kits.
@@ImNtDead I think it's more AMG and their bosses AS or LFS judging from the interview.
I don't know that there is a good way forward for current X-Wing. It's lived a long, full life and it could be time for 2nd Edition to end and AMG to start thinking about how they could create a new Star Wars dogfighting miniatures game in the future. Potentially one that allows for the use of some existing X-Wing minis, but its own game with its own start.