@Merican Modi I mean, nobody said that. But if someone created a detailed sculpture of their dog out of Lego then someone might refer to it as art. So a kid making something you wouldn’t necessarily deem as good with Lego is equivalent to a child throwing paint randomly on a piece of spare paper. Even if you don’t view it as art, the kid might value it because it’s what they’ve done. So might their parents. It’s a lot more nuanced than most people think.
@Merican Modi Well, that depends on what you mean by 'Art'. If you mean the somewhat elitist world of Renaissance-grade, cultural phenomenon 'Art', then no, a child's lego set isn't art. But if you mean the universal outlet for creative expression of anyone at any age, then yes, a child's lego set IS art.
@mericanmodi8479 bro, what the fuck. first of all, you could totally call a piss-signature 'art'. second of all, spitting on people isn't really art, it's just an action. and rape is so obviously a crime, i don't know why i even have to explain why that isn't art. these things aren't creative; they're evil.
In Danish we have a word that covers handmade items that are artistic but also useful, like vases, artful designed cups etc. - “brugskunst”, literally ‘use-art’, is there an English word for that?
I’m my art history classes, we discussed at great lengths how Duchamp’s “Fountain” is art. The tl;dr is if it elicits an emotional reaction, it is art. If the creator says it’s art, it’s art. If anyone thinks it’s art, it’s art! Duchamp literally put a urinal on a pedestal and called it art as a middle finger to art critics who decided what was and wasn’t art. So I believe that diy pins and protest signs are peak art.
I agree!! I think too it’s like whatever you want to interpret as queer art can be queer art since after the artist releases their art into the world, it belongs to the world as well.
@@annalysenko9180 I personally don't draw the distinction. Think of a photo of a sunset that makes you feel calm and relaxed? Sure there's a human that built the tools like the camera, there's a person that decided when and where to take the photo. But are you reacting to the "photoness" of the photo or what you see (ie the sunset)? Trying to draw a line on 'where the art starts' feels like an exercise that missed the larger effect of the experience.
Thanks for sharing this great perspective with us Rowan! We've loved having you celebrate #Pride2022 with us, especially our latest video where we learned SO much about the history of the Pride Flag. 🏳️🌈
In my opinion queer art is as complicated and fluid as everything else in art and truly drawing the lines of what it’s been considered can be quite difficult but the simplest solution in my opinion it would be . Work that show openly or talk about queer issues or relationships . Exploring gender and the complications of that . Protesting and symbols of pride . Works by queer artist (even if it’s not explicitly queer ) . Fanart of LGBT characters canonical or Head-cannons . Ships And many many more examples
"Before lgbtqia+ people were widely accepted into society". As someone who doesn't live in the west, although I appreciate the point being made here, such phrases throw me off and make it harder for me to feel connected to the argument being made, or even the community it is made for. Personally I think it would be great if videos by 'western' creators could more often sign post and add "in Europe" or "in the 'west' " or something, just because it's so frustrating to hear only one version of historical events all the time as a brown, living-in-Asia queer person. Either way thanks Rowan for explaining these concepts in easy ways :)
I’ve always been of the opinion that “artist” is synonymous to “lonely bisexual” so in my worldview, art all has always been queer. My vote goes to official declaring all art as property of the LGBTQ+ community, let’s take our art back🏳️🌈
@@bookish4415 It's well-known that artists who need to meet time and quality expectations use drugs to do so. Whether that be caffeine and misused ADHD medication for the uni/college artist or harder drugs like LSD (a hallucinogen) and stimulants for the more professional artist. Anything to get past the artists' block or to produce some out-of-this world visual display.
I’m surprised (though I guess I shouldn’t be) at the amount of hateful comments about an honest conversation-starter worth discussion. Art elicits strong feelings which are sometimes overwhelming to the observer. May all find the fortitude to accept a greater, or more nuanced, understanding of our shared humanity.
I've been teaching my queer art class about wheat pasting! A really interesting form of art, and used in protest too (see gran fury, for example). Plus it doesn't rely on galleries or being famous to be seen by lots of people
I think everything is art. From labels on pharmaceutical products to whereyou decide to place your kitchen table, everything is a subconcious artistic decision. So by my definition, pins would definitely be art. And "queer art" would I suppose then be any kinda art that a queer person makes OR art that's made from a queer perspective and is somehow queer. All up to where you decide to draw the line. You could therefore say that me (a queer person) making pasta is queer art :D
Protest art is definitely a thing! The definition of art defies unanimous agreement, but it certainly includes political and cultural expression. Clothing, hair styles, tattoos, poetry, dance, television, film, photography, and certainly erotic fiction are all things I would recognize as queer art, just to name some off the cuff.
Queer art is so difficult to define because both "queer" and "art" are complicated terms. A child can make art. So pins, zines, protest signs should all count imo. I think there are more categories tho, bc an artist who is a queer person doesnt have to make queer art (cover queer themes) but a non queer artist can paint a gay couple for eg. I think we should take everything we can as "Queer" is about removing boundaries after all :)
I think it’s interesting that these examples of what makes an “art canon” are all very still So much of queer art history is alive and moving through performance and theater and temporal mediums like ballroom and drag It makes sense that queer art would both move through and exist in these classical forms in various ways in addition to being something totally different and/or more free in a sense
I think reducing the definition of art to just what we see in galleries and “traditional” canon is inherently racist, misogynistic, phobic, etc. Marginalized people have always made things. It’s just that what is considered “high art” typically comes from white cishet men. A lot of those men would retroactively be considered neurodivergent, but their status as white cishet men deeply influenced the relationship between their neurodivergence and their success. Basically, we need to continually make space for diverse artists to be commercially successful, but also divorce the concepts of “good” or “worthwhile” art from capitalistic values.
They know who Mona Lisa is now… and she was a model for his school, where he and the students of his, would paint. There’s even another version still around that Leonardo didn’t paint, but that they suspect was painted at the same time as the Mona Lisa. It had nothing to do with Queerness…
I make everything that I can “gay ” I bought a deceptive plate of two women looking at each other because I thought they looked gay and I am all for queer history too
All of the above. The art is meant to be interpreted differently by different viewers at different ages. So anything can be interpreted through a queer lens.
I think there's a reason that camp is a big part of queer culture. I don't see the concept of "queer art" as ever being the kind of thing you'd find in a museum.
Duchamp gets to have art. Saul Bass gets to have art. Andy Warhol gets to have art. Protest symbology is graphic design. Which is an art. It’s art. And it speaks to historical experiences and expressions of those experiences. Art is a reflection of the culture that made it, and a queer culture made queer protest symbols to reflect our culture and identity, and fight for its legitimacy. That is absolutely considered art.
The second option: make your own canon. An amazing example of this is the third episode of the Last of Us television series. Im sure people have always been "queer" but the LGTBQ+ appears to be a modern idea. Retrofitting these modern ideas to old ideas is not creation.
Isn't art just art? Why do we need so many boxes and subcategories? It just further divides us and we do it with everything now, apparently even art. Smh.
If everyone is ma artist and anything is art just say people and stuff🤷🏻♂️why even have the word if it’s that generic. No exclusive ideas is what you all seem to want
No buttons are not art, queer or not, buttons have been around for over a century, they are really not a queer invention or have they in historical context ever been regarded as art, well maybe memorabilia kitch to some. Maybe Art is just dead.
@@lazyrat491 I saw an lgbt video saying that jesus was also queer and had same-sex feelings for one of his disciples. That's how low and deluded you people are.
He was caught with a male prostitute. He had a male lover of more than ten years . He never god married, even though that was extraordinary at the time. He also painted a portrait of the same lover with a pretty similar pose, along with a nude painting titleing said lover as an "angel. People are gay, get over it.
THE GOSPEL Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: - 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - John 15:13 KJV SAVALATION For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6 KJV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 5:10 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. - Mark 1:15 KJV He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. - John 3:36 KJV Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. - Romans 10:9-11 KJV For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:13 KJV
![เปิดใจ "อาจารย์เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม" อดีตเคยสุดทุกทาง ถ้าใช้หนี้หมดไปบวชแน่ l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IxeE0xVhy08/mqdefault.jpg)
I think that practically anything people create counts as art soling as it isn't used to tear others down.
@Merican Modi I mean, nobody said that. But if someone created a detailed sculpture of their dog out of Lego then someone might refer to it as art. So a kid making something you wouldn’t necessarily deem as good with Lego is equivalent to a child throwing paint randomly on a piece of spare paper. Even if you don’t view it as art, the kid might value it because it’s what they’ve done. So might their parents. It’s a lot more nuanced than most people think.
@Merican Modi Well, that depends on what you mean by 'Art'. If you mean the somewhat elitist world of Renaissance-grade, cultural phenomenon 'Art', then no, a child's lego set isn't art. But if you mean the universal outlet for creative expression of anyone at any age, then yes, a child's lego set IS art.
@mericanmodi8479 bro, what the fuck. first of all, you could totally call a piss-signature 'art'. second of all, spitting on people isn't really art, it's just an action. and rape is so obviously a crime, i don't know why i even have to explain why that isn't art. these things aren't creative; they're evil.
In Danish we have a word that covers handmade items that are artistic but also useful, like vases, artful designed cups etc. - “brugskunst”, literally ‘use-art’, is there an English word for that?
I’m my art history classes, we discussed at great lengths how Duchamp’s “Fountain” is art. The tl;dr is if it elicits an emotional reaction, it is art. If the creator says it’s art, it’s art. If anyone thinks it’s art, it’s art! Duchamp literally put a urinal on a pedestal and called it art as a middle finger to art critics who decided what was and wasn’t art. So I believe that diy pins and protest signs are peak art.
I'm an artschool kid so my world view is art is what ever makes you feel something. Doesn't matter what it is, or who made it, to be art.
Doesn`t it have to be man-made though? Sunset makes me fell so many things, yet would we call it art?
I agree!! I think too it’s like whatever you want to interpret as queer art can be queer art since after the artist releases their art into the world, it belongs to the world as well.
@@annalysenko9180 I personally don't draw the distinction. Think of a photo of a sunset that makes you feel calm and relaxed? Sure there's a human that built the tools like the camera, there's a person that decided when and where to take the photo. But are you reacting to the "photoness" of the photo or what you see (ie the sunset)? Trying to draw a line on 'where the art starts' feels like an exercise that missed the larger effect of the experience.
You just failed classic artschool..
@@yodlafpeterson2526 You’re just pretentious
Yes. Definitely on pins, zines and - especially - protest signs.
Who else would love to see a full length video on this?
I was about to comment that!
Thanks for sharing this great perspective with us Rowan! We've loved having you celebrate #Pride2022 with us, especially our latest video where we learned SO much about the history of the Pride Flag. 🏳️🌈
Same thanks ❤👍🏾🌞
In my opinion queer art is as complicated and fluid as everything else in art and truly drawing the lines of what it’s been considered can be quite difficult but the simplest solution in my opinion it would be
. Work that show openly or talk about queer issues or relationships
. Exploring gender and the complications of that
. Protesting and symbols of pride
. Works by queer artist (even if it’s not explicitly queer )
. Fanart of LGBT characters canonical or Head-cannons
. Ships
And many many more examples
"Before lgbtqia+ people were widely accepted into society". As someone who doesn't live in the west, although I appreciate the point being made here, such phrases throw me off and make it harder for me to feel connected to the argument being made, or even the community it is made for. Personally I think it would be great if videos by 'western' creators could more often sign post and add "in Europe" or "in the 'west' " or something, just because it's so frustrating to hear only one version of historical events all the time as a brown, living-in-Asia queer person. Either way thanks Rowan for explaining these concepts in easy ways :)
Thank you for reminding us!
To me art is what makes you feel something
Sorry for the stupid comment but your hair looks amazing
I’ve always been of the opinion that “artist” is synonymous to “lonely bisexual” so in my worldview, art all has always been queer. My vote goes to official declaring all art as property of the LGBTQ+ community, let’s take our art back🏳️🌈
i guess i'm not much of an artist then. no drugs other than caffine, no wild bisexual adventures.
🤣
@@kaiyodei where are drugs implied, I’m genuinely confused
And I’m literally a lonely bisexual coffee addict artist 😳😅
@@bookish4415 It's well-known that artists who need to meet time and quality expectations use drugs to do so. Whether that be caffeine and misused ADHD medication for the uni/college artist or harder drugs like LSD (a hallucinogen) and stimulants for the more professional artist. Anything to get past the artists' block or to produce some out-of-this world visual display.
LOVE Frieda Kahlo! Btw...love your hair... ;)
I’m surprised (though I guess I shouldn’t be) at the amount of hateful comments about an honest conversation-starter worth discussion.
Art elicits strong feelings which are sometimes overwhelming to the observer.
May all find the fortitude to accept a greater, or more nuanced, understanding of our shared humanity.
I'd love to see a full-length video on this!
Of course they count ! A lot of them look so lovely ❤️
I've been teaching my queer art class about wheat pasting! A really interesting form of art, and used in protest too (see gran fury, for example). Plus it doesn't rely on galleries or being famous to be seen by lots of people
I think all of the above in historical order!! I'd love That exhibition
I think everything is art. From labels on pharmaceutical products to whereyou decide to place your kitchen table, everything is a subconcious artistic decision. So by my definition, pins would definitely be art. And "queer art" would I suppose then be any kinda art that a queer person makes OR art that's made from a queer perspective and is somehow queer. All up to where you decide to draw the line. You could therefore say that me (a queer person) making pasta is queer art :D
Ive done several projects on queer art and its a fascinating rabbit hole!
Protest art is definitely a thing! The definition of art defies unanimous agreement, but it certainly includes political and cultural expression. Clothing, hair styles, tattoos, poetry, dance, television, film, photography, and certainly erotic fiction are all things I would recognize as queer art, just to name some off the cuff.
Queer art is so difficult to define because both "queer" and "art" are complicated terms. A child can make art. So pins, zines, protest signs should all count imo. I think there are more categories tho, bc an artist who is a queer person doesnt have to make queer art (cover queer themes) but a non queer artist can paint a gay couple for eg. I think we should take everything we can as "Queer" is about removing boundaries after all :)
I think it’s interesting that these examples of what makes an “art canon” are all very still
So much of queer art history is alive and moving through performance and theater and temporal mediums like ballroom and drag
It makes sense that queer art would both move through and exist in these classical forms in various ways in addition to being something totally different and/or more free in a sense
I think reducing the definition of art to just what we see in galleries and “traditional” canon is inherently racist, misogynistic, phobic, etc. Marginalized people have always made things. It’s just that what is considered “high art” typically comes from white cishet men. A lot of those men would retroactively be considered neurodivergent, but their status as white cishet men deeply influenced the relationship between their neurodivergence and their success.
Basically, we need to continually make space for diverse artists to be commercially successful, but also divorce the concepts of “good” or “worthwhile” art from capitalistic values.
They know who Mona Lisa is now… and she was a model for his school, where he and the students of his, would paint. There’s even another version still around that Leonardo didn’t paint, but that they suspect was painted at the same time as the Mona Lisa. It had nothing to do with Queerness…
They are all fabulous
I think art is everywhere
The last idea is my favorite (if that makes no sense I'm sorry I'm tired and I need coffee)
It's what Megami's protecting
I make everything that I can “gay ” I bought a deceptive plate of two women looking at each other because I thought they looked gay and I am all for queer history too
All of the above. The art is meant to be interpreted differently by different viewers at different ages. So anything can be interpreted through a queer lens.
I consider myself a queer artist, but I'm not gonna be the one to define what is art, as it is a very fluid concept.
Great discussion topic!
I think there's a reason that camp is a big part of queer culture. I don't see the concept of "queer art" as ever being the kind of thing you'd find in a museum.
Rowan, your hair is so fucking glorious.
Duchamp gets to have art.
Saul Bass gets to have art.
Andy Warhol gets to have art.
Protest symbology is graphic design. Which is an art.
It’s art. And it speaks to historical experiences and expressions of those experiences.
Art is a reflection of the culture that made it, and a queer culture made queer protest symbols to reflect our culture and identity, and fight for its legitimacy. That is absolutely considered art.
The second option: make your own canon. An amazing example of this is the third episode of the Last of Us television series.
Im sure people have always been "queer" but the LGTBQ+ appears to be a modern idea. Retrofitting these modern ideas to old ideas is not creation.
Can anime with great representation of queer/gay people/community, be considered Queer art?
I love the zines and posters and such made by LGBTQ people
I say do both. It makes more sense because being queeer before the nineteen fifties really wasn’t that frowned upon……..
What part of this vid was sponsored, cuz it says so on the bottom left
Is all of the above an option?
Don't think there needs to be a queer art per se. In my own queer experience, all art is kind of queer anyway
Yes
If it looks cool it’s art
Isn't art just art? Why do we need so many boxes and subcategories? It just further divides us and we do it with everything now, apparently even art. Smh.
If everyone is ma artist and anything is art just say people and stuff🤷🏻♂️why even have the word if it’s that generic. No exclusive ideas is what you all seem to want
Nah queer art is mostly on tumblr
Ok
And that's why it sucks.
CHRIST....That,s the whole damn alphabet!!!!!!
An artist is an artist. It shouldn’t matter a sh*t what their sexual orientation is 😳🤬
No buttons are not art, queer or not, buttons have been around for over a century, they are really not a queer invention or have they in historical context ever been regarded as art, well maybe memorabilia kitch to some. Maybe Art is just dead.
It's garbage.
Leave art alone. Concentrate on your pronouns.
What rubbish. “Mona Lisa is da Vinci’s queer lover”. God you guys are getting desperate.
her smile is believed to be based off of da’Vincis queer lover whom he painted as jesus (smh did you even listen closely)
@@lazyrat491 I saw an lgbt video saying that jesus was also queer and had same-sex feelings for one of his disciples. That's how low and deluded you people are.
He was caught with a male prostitute. He had a male lover of more than ten years . He never god married, even though that was extraordinary at the time. He also painted a portrait of the same lover with a pretty similar pose, along with a nude painting titleing said lover as an "angel. People are gay, get over it.
THE GOSPEL
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also
ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
- 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - John 15:13 KJV
SAVALATION
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
- John 3:16 KJV
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6 KJV
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 5:10
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
- Mark 1:15 KJV
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
- John 3:36 KJV
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
- Romans 10:9-11 KJV
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
- Romans 10:13 KJV