Just for testing, I would over- and underexpose a normal studiosituation by 3, 4 and 5 steps and bring them back to normal exposing. There we should see it there is a difference. But I would compare the R5 also in RAW to have 12 bit colors and a CLOG 2 option in davinci. But reallife situationsare also great for this kind of testing, if there you expose right for the dask or the bright part and recover the rest, this would show what camera has more workspace in DR. Nice Video👍
Just like you did. Perfect for my usage. Had a shoot recently with C70 and R5, and just preferred using the smaller form and VND adapter on the R5. So getting that highlight roll off and cleaner shadows in the r5c will be perfect. Great test thanks Damien (& Bel and Franco!)
1. Determine white clip point 2. Set exposure to normalize white clip between all cameras 3. Shoot a scene/chart that contains a wide range of tones, particularly midtones and shadows, to show comparable noise levels at various scene luminance levels and color values 4. Do it again for daylight and tungsten white balance, since many cameras handle white balance changes and blue/red channel noise very differently 5. Push exposure in post to a variety of levels to judge noise character/levels with different exposure (EI) curves.
Your test are fine but you are missing the addition of trying to match footage. SOC footage or shooting the same settings or comparing a "look" or "flavor" footage has in clog3 vs clog2 is not a test.
The R5 C uses the same sensor and processor as the R5, so it is difficult to understand how it could compete with the C70, which is supposed to have a DR of around 13 stops. The R5 only measured 10.4 stops in Imatest. Confused.
For dynamic range test, dark interiors with harsh sunlight coming in through a window, and exposed for interior to see how much highlight information can be recouped in post
@@contentm3893 actually, as I wrote, I asked for dark interiors and exposed for the interiors with harsh sunlight coming in through the window. This is the best way to see how much highlight latitude the camera has
I'm still pretty happy with the R5. It's a camera that's good enough for many photo and video jobs that don't have requirements such as long takes or extended raw recording. When a job comes up where the R5's limitations are unacceptable, I can rent an r5C, C70, or just a Ninja V+. Then I can still use the R5 as Bcam/gymbal cam etc. In the meanwhile, I really enjoy the IBIS, battery life, and AF during daily life and vacation photos etc. (for example, with that new 16mm lens) It's a well-rounded camera for like 80-90% of my needs. In the meanwhile I'd rather wait for the RF full-frame cinema camera models, then we have RF full-frame AND NDs, and hopefully a bit better AF.
I’m in the same boat as well. Can’t justify the R5C because I rarely do long form shoots, and the ability to switch from photo to video and vice versus instantly is way more important than having a more cinema-like camera. If the R5C has internal NDs, it’d be a different story. I can’t justify a cinema camera since weddings/video is more of a side hustle/hobby for me at the moment. R5 is more than enough, and to be honest, it’s probably too much camera for my level of skill anyways.
@@JAY-wl6qq never has overheated on me so far, but I shoot maybe 10 min max per clip, and I turn off the camera when I’m not recording. For short clips, it’s great, but I wouldn’t rely on the R5 for documentary/podcast/concert types of shots where you leave the camera recordin for extended periods of time. I’d rather use a dedicated camcorder or cinema camera for those types of shots.
Finally a practical comparison. I ordered the R5c to be my A cam for weddings and I have all RF glass so I didn’t want to go to the cropped sensor of the c70. This is more than comparable. And I get the dual iso for the tricky lighting I get at Disney after close 😂
It's tough. If you can find a good ND and battery solution I think the R5C will be great for weddings. But you will need to find a good solution for both for sure
@@ExploreTravelCapture brother I'm full confused about r5 n rc 🥺 ... No one give me clear explanation witch is best .... I need both video and photography ... My brother shoot short films .. im using for photoshoot .. please give me best reasons to select one
Always appreciate your content! As for true dynamic range variance, the C70 has 12ish stops of usable dynamic range, where the R5C has about 10ish stops. These are “usable” stops, as in, they aren’t horribly noisy. Granted, two stops in the shadows isn’t a huge difference once converted to rec709, but it does give you more flexibility in post to bring up the darkest areas if you didn’t nail the lighting.
I’m not sure how anyone can tell which has better or worst dynamic range from this video. Why? Because you have uploaded this video in Rec. 709… which can only display 5.2 stops of dynamic range and the paltry 100 nits of brightness. This is nowhere near enough to represent the latitude of modern cameras capable of 9 - 16+ stops of dynamic range. You might want to take a peek at my channel to see some footage from the new Canon Eos R3 and Red Komodo in Rec. 2020. IMO there is a much more noticeable difference going from SDR to HDR than there is going from 1080p to 4K. Just make certain you have a HDR monitor that is able to display 1000 nits of continuous brightness.
Hey, I have a genuine question. I'm curious to understand how even though rec709 displays only 5.2 stops that we're still able to see differences in highlights retention and shadow details from camera to camera. Is it that the goal of these videos are based on each camera's (sensor) distribution of data amongst the stops within their assigned logs curves? and If the all the cameras have more stops than rec709 can display than how come Arri/red footage can have so much more detail in comparison to canon cameras. This is all so confusing haha, I'm just trying to understand, especially knowing that majority of people will not view most videos in HDR still.
Damien, thank you for packing so much value into one video! This is exactly what I'm sure so many of us want to see, and I'm so glad you included the waveforms. I have a couple main takeaways here. Firstly, I'd rather be working with the C70 as it does clearly have the most latitude. Having built in NDs on C70 are nice too, but whether the C70 is the overall better camera than the R5C depends almost entirely on if your work benefits more from that extra stop of dynamic range, or higher resolution. For me, shooting interiors, I'd have the C70. For commercial interview type work, the R5C. My other takeaway is that I'm genuinely surprised at how much different and better the R5C is than the R5...especially for a camera that allegedly has the same sensor onboard. There's really a noticeable difference there.
oh yeah, R5 and R5C look vastly different! As for the resolution, I thought so too. But look at this talking head (C70, speedbooster, Sigma 35mm) and my last video which was the same setup but with the R5C in 8K. Once uploaded to youtube, I didn't find the difference in sharpness to be that much
@@damiencooper Yeah, I see what you mean. The 8K is definitely sharper, but in a more "video" kind of way. I prefer the C70 example even if it is softer. Check out the past two talking head videos on my channel. The most recent is with the A7Riv cropped to super 35 (for the 6K oversampling) with the Sony 35mm 1.8 and a 1/4 promist. The video right before it was on the Komodo in 6K (rendered to 4K) with the RF 50 1.2. IMO the Komodo image walks all over the Sony image, even if the Sony is bit more "sharpened." Even that promist filter cant tame the thing that much.
@@loudandclearmedia yeah, I see what you mean. Alhtough harder to tell as it's a close up shot.. But it depends on what you shoot. We're working on a doc right now where I filmed the interviews on C70s, wide open with mist and haze.. Safe to say, I like it soft :D
@@damiencooper yeah, I do too. Soft is best for people IMO...nobody wants to see some zit scar from when you were 15 years old. Colors too...some cameras, like RED and Blackmagic, just get them right. Others, like Sony, I struggle with. I dont have much experience with Canon camera colors, but from everything I've seen the DGO cameras like C70 and C300iii seem to be the ones to get.
Really great video! I like your comparison this does make a lot of sense! I subscribed to you thank you! The C70 is the greatest among the three, you can really see how nice is the highlights and has a very filmic look.
Canon R5C does not have C-Log2 even if you record in RAW. This is only a curve change, not a real C-Log2, as the Canon representative said in an interview about the R5C (the same principle applies to Canon R5 if we record in RAW, C-Log2 simply does not exist in these cameras). The C70 has a real C-Log2 so it just has a little more dynamic range. However, these samples show that this is not a drastic difference.
Thanks for the video! Interesting results indeed! What amazing cameras they all are!! Is the battery life about 40-45 minutes without a power bank on the r5c? I am also really curious about the autofocus compared to the R5 and c70. If it were similar to the r5 then I would be really happy!
Great Video...But you cant record C-Log 2 in Cinema RAW Light (Because there is no normal RAW, just Cinema RAW) So how did you managed to record in C-Log 2?
Thanks for these great tests. I think real work tests like this are very valuable. The only thing I'd do differently is get 3 copies of the same lenses and Matt box to film at the exact same time with all 3. I'm sure that wasn't possible because of the limited time you had.
I heard that if you switch the RAW from the R5C to CLOG2 its actually just CLOG and not real CLOG2. You can verify this by looking at the histogram and flipping between CLOG and CLOG2. The histogram won't change.
People have recorded in RAW on R5 with clog vs clog3 and in post, even changing to clog2, the clips with clog3 had more dynamic range. This shouldn't be the case, as it is RAW, but its likely because RED's RAW patent and Canon isn't using full true RAW. If the R5/R5C had clog2 in non-raw, it likely would have higher dynamic range when using RAW.
The R5C is really an interesting camera, but I would like to know who would choose this over the C70 for video without being powered. The short battery life is such a disappointment
With a V-Mount Adapter on a rig, you have no problem with battery life. And if DR is like in this video close between both, then I see almost no reasons why to choose a C70 over the R5C. The main reason for a R5C is the resolution with sharp 8K and 60 fps and the main reason for the C70 is DR and the internal ND, but if they are so close in DR, then why should someone get a C70 over a R5C? AF is better on the R5C and you also get a great fotocamera. So I choose the R5C over a C70, and the Price is also close (R5C+ ND filters + a rig with V-MOUNT Adapter and V-Mount batteries) = C70. Until now I thought the DR difference will be like day and night between both, but this video gives me some hope, that the R5C is way better in this discipline than I thought.
@@iliaskapatos Yes, sharp does not = better in most cases. But yes, 8k is impressive until you realize that it will not only chew through your battery, but storage as well. RAW 8k footage, your CPU will just take a beating as well. Really comes down to do you need 8k for the lack of full HDMI, internal NDs, extra storage, and hard processing if you're posing on a platform other than IG and YT,
@@capturedbytymel It depends on the needs :-), and like with my non commercial needs (no time preasure) and with a PC what handels R5 RAW footage nicely, there I just look for DR and sharpness. And only if the DR and the colors are almost the same, then a sharper footage is in my eyes most of the time better as a final result than a unsharper footage.
@@iliaskapatos Why to choose C70 over R5C? You must be a hobbyist propably...! First of all in a professional enviroment C70 provides almost anything someone needs like 2x XLR, amazing pre-amps, DGO sensor, 10-stop NDs, amazing battery life, full hdmi port, a much more sophisticated ergonomical body to work with with lots of assignable buttons! Let's not forget that CRL is coming this month to C70 also in all modes! Finally this test isn't at all scientific... go check CineD lab tests between R5 and C300 Mark III which has the same sensor as the C70! The difference is huge. R5c may provide a little better DR than R5 but that's all! These are two completely different machines for different jobs! You can't compare a milc body with a cinema camera! Grow Up ffs!
@@marioskarageorgiou6758 yes I am no professional, and maybe most professionals would choose a C70 over a R5C, but most standalone non professionals who don't need to match more than one cameras, are more than happy with a really sharp videos, with good DR and beautiful colors. But what I think is that in some years the resolution of a C70 will not be good enough anymore, while the resolution of a R5C will still be good enough for I guess the next 15 years. And I only said that if the DR is really so close, then I almost see no reason to go with a C70 and if you are right and there is a big difference in DR, then I also see that for non pros like me a C70 would also make sense over a R5C😉
I don't know how you can even talk about dynamic range while hardly ever pushing the images. You say "I couldn't really see a difference" or you think one is better but never explain how you came to that conclusion so it really seems like you didnt look very hard. You could also throw in an arri alexa, rate it at 250EI and say all these cameras seem the same... Of course they are the same if you dont push them hard. If all you ever need is 6-stops of highlights you won't ever see that much of a difference between any modern camera right now. You almost got there on the last test but I hardly saw any noise in any of the images watching your video at 4k on a 4k monitor so this video is very inconclusive. DR is defined by white clip and noise, but noise is the part that you have to show for anyone to make a subjective judgement about it, and online that means you need to show 200+% crops of the footage for it to be visible on youtube and can't really show side-by-sides because encoding the noise from one camera denoises the other camera by taking all the encoding bandwidth.
Great video! Maybe I'm missing something, but when comparing the R5 to the R5C, wouldn't it be fairer to compare the R5 and R5c RAW footage (both converted to Clog 2 as you did for the R5c)? Otherwise what we have is a 10 bit Clog 3 versus Clog 2 (from 12 bit RAW) comparison which is hardly apples to apples.
Well, we didn’t have infinite time. But I would never use the R5 raw as it is just way too big. Where as I found see myself using the RAW LT on the R5C. Furthermore m: there was hardly any difference between the R5C and XF-AVC either
In the future, can you do some tests with the Super35 mode and RAW HQ? I'm curious what improves visually in the image. It uses slightly more data yet records at 5.9K.
I noticed that the R5 and R5C looks slightly underexposed by at least half a stop and yet the R5C (after the YT compression) to me seems retaining almost the same amount of shadows details at the C70 in dark areas. Also the C70 seems to suffer from a quite noticeable glare (due to the speedboster maybe?) that could be also the reason why the dark areas seems lifted compared to both the R5C clips but without showing much more details information (I'm talking about the black jacket for example)
But about the C70 I love the internal ND that looks way more neutral than the screw on filter and its very usable battery life without need to rig up an external battery :)
@@damiencooper Gotcha! Can I ask if you had the same impression about the exposure and which camera's display was brighter among the 3? Do you think you would have problems with any of them in a sunny day? Just curious as I find the C70 display nit super bright outside 🙏🏻
Are you sure R5C can shoot Clog2? It’s not an option in the menu. If you are shooting RAW and than “selecting” Clog2 in post, it’s still just *Clog1* , the “clog2” waveform and the clog1 waveform looks identical. gerald undone tested this with R3 and he said these “hybrids” are never getting clog2 for real. I tested my R5 and I found the same thing. You might have been just shooting clog1 all this time and comparing clog1 to clog2.
if so it would def be clog3 and not clog1. But that would mean it's not RAW at all. Because when shooting Raw you just select what you want to monitor in but nothing is baked in..
@@damiencooper I tried the same thing with C70, shoot clog2 in RAW, and in post I can select clog2 and clog3, the “clog1” is identical to the clog2. As C70 spec states, no clog1. In both R5 and C70, the clog3 is the only one that’s different from the other two. It’s either clog+clog3 or clog2+clog3. Look at the waveform switching between clog1 and clog2 for the R5C, if they don’t changed then they should be the same.
get some fds and recreate some basic shots from Aliens and remember to test out 8k 8k rawlight 4k sampled from 8k which effects the saturation and talk at nausium about the 2k and how long it take to transcode and move an 8k full 512gb cards information in to 2k raw,, I also want to know about recording limits and if they can be ignored with an external recorder I've heard they cant,
Little not very know tid-bit: The R5C has 14 stops of dynamic range. The R5 only has 13 stops of dynamic range. The reason: Canon managed to get more dynamic range out of the R5 / R5C sensor by using CineOS :)
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How would you test dynamic range?
Just for testing, I would over- and underexpose a normal studiosituation by 3, 4 and 5 steps and bring them back to normal exposing. There we should see it there is a difference. But I would compare the R5 also in RAW to have 12 bit colors and a CLOG 2 option in davinci. But reallife situationsare also great for this kind of testing, if there you expose right for the dask or the bright part and recover the rest, this would show what camera has more workspace in DR. Nice Video👍
Just like you did. Perfect for my usage. Had a shoot recently with C70 and R5, and just preferred using the smaller form and VND adapter on the R5. So getting that highlight roll off and cleaner shadows in the r5c will be perfect.
Great test thanks Damien (& Bel and Franco!)
1. Determine white clip point
2. Set exposure to normalize white clip between all cameras
3. Shoot a scene/chart that contains a wide range of tones, particularly midtones and shadows, to show comparable noise levels at various scene luminance levels and color values
4. Do it again for daylight and tungsten white balance, since many cameras handle white balance changes and blue/red channel noise very differently
5. Push exposure in post to a variety of levels to judge noise character/levels with different exposure (EI) curves.
Your test are fine but you are missing the addition of trying to match footage. SOC footage or shooting the same settings or comparing a "look" or "flavor" footage has in clog3 vs clog2 is not a test.
The R5 C uses the same sensor and processor as the R5, so it is difficult to understand how it could compete with the C70, which is supposed to have a DR of around 13 stops. The R5 only measured 10.4 stops in Imatest. Confused.
Nice one Damien! Great findings and thanks for sharing. Looking forward to getting an R5c and testing it out soon as well.
Looking forward to your content
For dynamic range test, dark interiors with harsh sunlight coming in through a window, and exposed for interior to see how much highlight information can be recouped in post
It depends on what you expose for, right? You protect the highlights but have to expose the scene properly.
@@contentm3893 actually, as I wrote, I asked for dark interiors and exposed for the interiors with harsh sunlight coming in through the window. This is the best way to see how much highlight latitude the camera has
I'm still pretty happy with the R5. It's a camera that's good enough for many photo and video jobs that don't have requirements such as long takes or extended raw recording. When a job comes up where the R5's limitations are unacceptable, I can rent an r5C, C70, or just a Ninja V+. Then I can still use the R5 as Bcam/gymbal cam etc.
In the meanwhile, I really enjoy the IBIS, battery life, and AF during daily life and vacation photos etc. (for example, with that new 16mm lens)
It's a well-rounded camera for like 80-90% of my needs.
In the meanwhile I'd rather wait for the RF full-frame cinema camera models, then we have RF full-frame AND NDs, and hopefully a bit better AF.
I’m in the same boat as well. Can’t justify the R5C because I rarely do long form shoots, and the ability to switch from photo to video and vice versus instantly is way more important than having a more cinema-like camera. If the R5C has internal NDs, it’d be a different story. I can’t justify a cinema camera since weddings/video is more of a side hustle/hobby for me at the moment. R5 is more than enough, and to be honest, it’s probably too much camera for my level of skill anyways.
@@xkben90 Does your R5 overheat much
@@JAY-wl6qq never has overheated on me so far, but I shoot maybe 10 min max per clip, and I turn off the camera when I’m not recording. For short clips, it’s great, but I wouldn’t rely on the R5 for documentary/podcast/concert types of shots where you leave the camera recordin for extended periods of time. I’d rather use a dedicated camcorder or cinema camera for those types of shots.
The R5C needs CLOG2 internally. Canon needs to add that. They're calling it a "Cinema" series camera and it needs CLOG2.
Finally a practical comparison. I ordered the R5c to be my A cam for weddings and I have all RF glass so I didn’t want to go to the cropped sensor of the c70. This is more than comparable. And I get the dual iso for the tricky lighting I get at Disney after close 😂
It's tough. If you can find a good ND and battery solution I think the R5C will be great for weddings. But you will need to find a good solution for both for sure
@@damiencooper yeah. I decided to go with the Anton Bauer base plate and I already use the polar pro mist variables NDs which have been fantastic.
@@ExploreTravelCapture brother I'm full confused about r5 n rc 🥺 ... No one give me clear explanation witch is best .... I need both video and photography ... My brother shoot short films .. im using for photoshoot .. please give me best reasons to select one
very pertinent analysis and comments. Waiting for further comparisons.
Always appreciate your content!
As for true dynamic range variance, the C70 has 12ish stops of usable dynamic range, where the R5C has about 10ish stops.
These are “usable” stops, as in, they aren’t horribly noisy.
Granted, two stops in the shadows isn’t a huge difference once converted to rec709, but it does give you more flexibility in post to bring up the darkest areas if you didn’t nail the lighting.
Thank you for this video. Not much difference in DR in the end, but that’s an unexpected and pleasant surprise :)
It is.. There might be scenarios where it is more apparent. Let's see once I get the camera for good
I’m not sure how anyone can tell which has better or worst dynamic range from this video. Why? Because you have uploaded this video in Rec. 709… which can only display 5.2 stops of dynamic range and the paltry 100 nits of brightness. This is nowhere near enough to represent the latitude of modern cameras capable of 9 - 16+ stops of dynamic range. You might want to take a peek at my channel to see some footage from the new Canon Eos R3 and Red Komodo in Rec. 2020.
IMO there is a much more noticeable difference going from SDR to HDR than there is going from 1080p to 4K. Just make certain you have a HDR monitor that is able to display 1000 nits of continuous brightness.
Hey, I have a genuine question. I'm curious to understand how even though rec709 displays only 5.2 stops that we're still able to see differences in highlights retention and shadow details from camera to camera. Is it that the goal of these videos are based on each camera's (sensor) distribution of data amongst the stops within their assigned logs curves? and If the all the cameras have more stops than rec709 can display than how come Arri/red footage can have so much more detail in comparison to canon cameras. This is all so confusing haha, I'm just trying to understand, especially knowing that majority of people will not view most videos in HDR still.
Damien, thank you for packing so much value into one video! This is exactly what I'm sure so many of us want to see, and I'm so glad you included the waveforms. I have a couple main takeaways here. Firstly, I'd rather be working with the C70 as it does clearly have the most latitude. Having built in NDs on C70 are nice too, but whether the C70 is the overall better camera than the R5C depends almost entirely on if your work benefits more from that extra stop of dynamic range, or higher resolution. For me, shooting interiors, I'd have the C70. For commercial interview type work, the R5C. My other takeaway is that I'm genuinely surprised at how much different and better the R5C is than the R5...especially for a camera that allegedly has the same sensor onboard. There's really a noticeable difference there.
oh yeah, R5 and R5C look vastly different! As for the resolution, I thought so too. But look at this talking head (C70, speedbooster, Sigma 35mm) and my last video which was the same setup but with the R5C in 8K. Once uploaded to youtube, I didn't find the difference in sharpness to be that much
@@damiencooper Yeah, I see what you mean. The 8K is definitely sharper, but in a more "video" kind of way. I prefer the C70 example even if it is softer. Check out the past two talking head videos on my channel. The most recent is with the A7Riv cropped to super 35 (for the 6K oversampling) with the Sony 35mm 1.8 and a 1/4 promist. The video right before it was on the Komodo in 6K (rendered to 4K) with the RF 50 1.2. IMO the Komodo image walks all over the Sony image, even if the Sony is bit more "sharpened." Even that promist filter cant tame the thing that much.
@@loudandclearmedia yeah, I see what you mean. Alhtough harder to tell as it's a close up shot.. But it depends on what you shoot. We're working on a doc right now where I filmed the interviews on C70s, wide open with mist and haze.. Safe to say, I like it soft :D
@@damiencooper yeah, I do too. Soft is best for people IMO...nobody wants to see some zit scar from when you were 15 years old. Colors too...some cameras, like RED and Blackmagic, just get them right. Others, like Sony, I struggle with. I dont have much experience with Canon camera colors, but from everything I've seen the DGO cameras like C70 and C300iii seem to be the ones to get.
@@loudandclearmedia yeah, look at my Instagram. I posted some screengrabs the other day. 2x c70s, one C300III
Really great video! I like your comparison this does make a lot of sense! I subscribed to you thank you! The C70 is the greatest among the three, you can really see how nice is the highlights and has a very filmic look.
Nice test Damien, really nice, looking forward to seeing you reviewing the R5C.
Canon R5C does not have C-Log2 even if you record in RAW. This is only a curve change, not a real C-Log2, as the Canon representative said in an interview about the R5C (the same principle applies to Canon R5 if we record in RAW, C-Log2 simply does not exist in these cameras). The C70 has a real C-Log2 so it just has a little more dynamic range. However, these samples show that this is not a drastic difference.
Since log and RAW are completely different things that would mean the R5C doesn’t have RAW
Well well well! That's the test I was waiting for! Thanks 😉💪🏻👍🏻👏🏻
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on the R5C. Thanks for all the comparisons.
Would love to see a comparison with the Canon R3 as it has one stop more Raw dynamic range on the sensor than the Canon R5.
Does it though? In Video?
@@damiencooper According to Gerald Undone´s R3 Dynamic Range scientific test yes.
@@holdmedear th-cam.com/video/IE8OVmLj8HA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video! Interesting results indeed! What amazing cameras they all are!! Is the battery life about 40-45 minutes without a power bank on the r5c? I am also really curious about the autofocus compared to the R5 and c70. If it were similar to the r5 then I would be really happy!
Did all those tests too. Battery sucks, AF is more R5 than C70
Great Video...But you cant record C-Log 2 in Cinema RAW Light (Because there is no normal RAW, just Cinema RAW)
So how did you managed to record in C-Log 2?
Interesting, cheers for the test! Hope you’re ok man you seem a bit lower key than usual!
haha, I have been trying a different mood. More calm and collected. Don't know what I will go for in the end.. Right now I'm in the middle :D
Thanks for these great tests. I think real work tests like this are very valuable. The only thing I'd do differently is get 3 copies of the same lenses and Matt box to film at the exact same time with all 3. I'm sure that wasn't possible because of the limited time you had.
I heard that if you switch the RAW from the R5C to CLOG2 its actually just CLOG and not real CLOG2. You can verify this by looking at the histogram and flipping between CLOG and CLOG2. The histogram won't change.
r5/r5c sensor has only 11.6EV in clog3. Clog2 supports more dynamic range. So thats why r5c/r5 sensor will never support clog2 ;(
There is a slight change in DR when shooting raw looking at the waveforms. But marginal
Gerald Undone said that in his review of the R3 but later acknowledged he was wrong on that point.
@@csound55 Interesting thanks!! I did watch his review so I would assume that's where I heard it.
People have recorded in RAW on R5 with clog vs clog3 and in post, even changing to clog2, the clips with clog3 had more dynamic range. This shouldn't be the case, as it is RAW, but its likely because RED's RAW patent and Canon isn't using full true RAW. If the R5/R5C had clog2 in non-raw, it likely would have higher dynamic range when using RAW.
Wow. That's my confirmation I'll be the R5C! Thanks!
Thank you for this video!
The R5C is really an interesting camera, but I would like to know who would choose this over the C70 for video without being powered. The short battery life is such a disappointment
With a V-Mount Adapter on a rig, you have no problem with battery life. And if DR is like in this video close between both, then I see almost no reasons why to choose a C70 over the R5C. The main reason for a R5C is the resolution with sharp 8K and 60 fps and the main reason for the C70 is DR and the internal ND, but if they are so close in DR, then why should someone get a C70 over a R5C? AF is better on the R5C and you also get a great fotocamera. So I choose the R5C over a C70, and the Price is also close (R5C+ ND filters + a rig with V-MOUNT Adapter and V-Mount batteries) = C70. Until now I thought the DR difference will be like day and night between both, but this video gives me some hope, that the R5C is way better in this discipline than I thought.
@@iliaskapatos Yes, sharp does not = better in most cases. But yes, 8k is impressive until you realize that it will not only chew through your battery, but storage as well. RAW 8k footage, your CPU will just take a beating as well.
Really comes down to do you need 8k for the lack of full HDMI, internal NDs, extra storage, and hard processing if you're posing on a platform other than IG and YT,
@@capturedbytymel It depends on the needs :-), and like with my non commercial needs (no time preasure) and with a PC what handels R5 RAW footage nicely, there I just look for DR and sharpness. And only if the DR and the colors are almost the same, then a sharper footage is in my eyes most of the time better as a final result than a unsharper footage.
@@iliaskapatos Why to choose C70 over R5C? You must be a hobbyist propably...! First of all in a professional enviroment C70 provides almost anything someone needs like 2x XLR, amazing pre-amps, DGO sensor, 10-stop NDs, amazing battery life, full hdmi port, a much more sophisticated ergonomical body to work with with lots of assignable buttons! Let's not forget that CRL is coming this month to C70 also in all modes! Finally this test isn't at all scientific... go check CineD lab tests between R5 and C300 Mark III which has the same sensor as the C70! The difference is huge. R5c may provide a little better DR than R5 but that's all! These are two completely different machines for different jobs! You can't compare a milc body with a cinema camera! Grow Up ffs!
@@marioskarageorgiou6758 yes I am no professional, and maybe most professionals would choose a C70 over a R5C, but most standalone non professionals who don't need to match more than one cameras, are more than happy with a really sharp videos, with good DR and beautiful colors. But what I think is that in some years the resolution of a C70 will not be good enough anymore, while the resolution of a R5C will still be good enough for I guess the next 15 years. And I only said that if the DR is really so close, then I almost see no reason to go with a C70 and if you are right and there is a big difference in DR, then I also see that for non pros like me a C70 would also make sense over a R5C😉
I don't know how you can even talk about dynamic range while hardly ever pushing the images. You say "I couldn't really see a difference" or you think one is better but never explain how you came to that conclusion so it really seems like you didnt look very hard. You could also throw in an arri alexa, rate it at 250EI and say all these cameras seem the same... Of course they are the same if you dont push them hard. If all you ever need is 6-stops of highlights you won't ever see that much of a difference between any modern camera right now. You almost got there on the last test but I hardly saw any noise in any of the images watching your video at 4k on a 4k monitor so this video is very inconclusive. DR is defined by white clip and noise, but noise is the part that you have to show for anyone to make a subjective judgement about it, and online that means you need to show 200+% crops of the footage for it to be visible on youtube and can't really show side-by-sides because encoding the noise from one camera denoises the other camera by taking all the encoding bandwidth.
Hello,. Great channel, buy clog2 isn't available in R5c ?????? How did you shoot it in clog2??
Raw
Great video, Damien!
How usable is the evf? Is there a 4k s35 mode?
Great video! Maybe I'm missing something, but when comparing the R5 to the R5C, wouldn't it be fairer to compare the R5 and R5c RAW footage (both converted to Clog 2 as you did for the R5c)? Otherwise what we have is a 10 bit Clog 3 versus Clog 2 (from 12 bit RAW) comparison which is hardly apples to apples.
Well, we didn’t have infinite time. But I would never use the R5 raw as it is just way too big. Where as I found see myself using the RAW LT on the R5C. Furthermore m: there was hardly any difference between the R5C and XF-AVC either
In the future, can you do some tests with the Super35 mode and RAW HQ? I'm curious what improves visually in the image. It uses slightly more data yet records at 5.9K.
I noticed that the R5 and R5C looks slightly underexposed by at least half a stop and yet the R5C (after the YT compression) to me seems retaining almost the same amount of shadows details at the C70 in dark areas.
Also the C70 seems to suffer from a quite noticeable glare (due to the speedboster maybe?) that could be also the reason why the dark areas seems lifted compared to both the R5C clips but without showing much more details information (I'm talking about the black jacket for example)
I think the glare was just the positioning of the camera
But about the C70 I love the internal ND that looks way more neutral than the screw on filter and its very usable battery life without need to rig up an external battery :)
@@damiencooper Gotcha!
Can I ask if you had the same impression about the exposure and which camera's display was brighter among the 3?
Do you think you would have problems with any of them in a sunny day?
Just curious as I find the C70 display nit super bright outside 🙏🏻
Thanks!
I thought you were not able to shoot CLOG 2 on the R5C... How did you record in LOG 2?
Battery life?
Horrible
@@damiencooper did you try with a battery grip at all, or even v mount? Wondering if the v mount will support 8K60.
@@NathanPhillipsPhoto I wish. Didn’t have a dtap to USB-C cable
how can you compare r5 without using r5 raw with r5c raw
Are you sure R5C can shoot Clog2? It’s not an option in the menu. If you are shooting RAW and than “selecting” Clog2 in post, it’s still just *Clog1* , the “clog2” waveform and the clog1 waveform looks identical. gerald undone tested this with R3 and he said these “hybrids” are never getting clog2 for real. I tested my R5 and I found the same thing. You might have been just shooting clog1 all this time and comparing clog1 to clog2.
if so it would def be clog3 and not clog1. But that would mean it's not RAW at all. Because when shooting Raw you just select what you want to monitor in but nothing is baked in..
@@damiencooper I tried the same thing with C70, shoot clog2 in RAW, and in post I can select clog2 and clog3, the “clog1” is identical to the clog2. As C70 spec states, no clog1. In both R5 and C70, the clog3 is the only one that’s different from the other two. It’s either clog+clog3 or clog2+clog3. Look at the waveform switching between clog1 and clog2 for the R5C, if they don’t changed then they should be the same.
Select clog3 in resolve from the raw, then back to clog or clog2 and you'll see a change.
This test results makes R5C even a greater value .Came on Canon ,gives us clog 2 in XF-AVC.Shooting raw in 8k to excess clog 2 is pain in the ass .
Would you say Xf-AVC is the same on R5C and c70?
😂 give me five champion! C log 2 R5C
Central Cee back again with a fire upload 🔥
get some fds and recreate some basic shots from Aliens
and remember to test out 8k 8k rawlight 4k sampled from 8k which effects the saturation and talk at nausium about the 2k and how long it take to transcode and move an 8k full 512gb cards information in to 2k raw,,
I also want to know about recording limits and if they can be ignored with an external recorder I've heard they cant,
May I ask how you show C-Log2 on the R5C? It says C-Log3 only in the manual.
Shooting RAW
shot in raw and than convert the raw footage in clog 2..in premiere or davinci for example..but its not a real clog 2 than of course like the c70 has
Hi Damien, your stylist must get fired!
The lace in your sweater didn't got the same length 😁!
Nice videos by the way!
haha, that's actually the sweaters fault. Drive my OCD nuts!
how do you shoot clog2 on the r5c??
raw
get some fds and recreate some basic shots from Aliens
Little not very know tid-bit: The R5C has 14 stops of dynamic range. The R5 only has 13 stops of dynamic range. The reason: Canon managed to get more dynamic range out of the R5 / R5C sensor by using CineOS :)
it ain't!!! don't believe in manufacturer DR!
Then watch Gerald Undone's video.
R5c is the best. it has better image quality.