tf2, but it’s MvM - normal tf2 with upgrades, canteens & med shield: who's best? what's the meta?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Music: BananaSlug ( / user-426347780 )
channel discord --- / discord
channel patreon --- / shounic
channel tracker --- trello.com/b/L...
[ todo list / current progress on upcoming videos / channel roadmap ]
feedback --- forms.gle/bkuG...
custom files --- pastebin.com/r...
[ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
big thanks to:
Mikusch for their plugin github.com/Mik...
Doomy for misc plugin help
Gold, 5225225, Hoste & SURVEY RESPONDERS for scripting help
FAQ:
Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations).
The fact that engineer became the most dominant class and forced the game to revolve around helping or harming them rationalizes Graymann's use of sentry busters
I’m not sure that you could get close without a quick fix Uber because of the knockback. Maybe the unlikely teaming up of Spy + Pyro or a Cow Mangle charged shot to help get in close.
But yeah I wanted to see a max speed Uber canteen Pyro going ham in this video.
@@DoABarrelRol1l in mvm busters have low knockback from sentries
It's funny that Uncle Dane, Engie Main Man, helped clue me in to how Engie is just a stall class and him being too powerful kind of ruins the game, and here we are.
You'd be wrong, even without sentry busters the sheer amount of robots a sentry has to face in MVM can quickly obliterate it, even with everything upgraded to max
@@theshermantanker7043 words of someone who has zero tours
The fix for this is to let people spawn as sentry busters. Even if the engi packs up the sentry you could still blow up the dispenser which is far more important to keeping a nest up and a team stocked.
That sounds cool, but make it take the PDA 1 or PDA 2 slot (the engi and Spy ones) to spawn one
@@Aaa-vp6ug The way the joinblu mod does it is when a sentry buster would spawn it picks a respawning player and has them play for that life as a sentry buster.
This is awesome.
I have a suggestion for a future experiment: Everything can headshot. Pistol, force of nature, smg, all spy revolvers, sentry guns, cleaver, etc.
I'm surprised this was never a popular community gamemode. It seems obvious with a few balance tweaks.
The lengths I go through to play a game where spy beats sniper
I saw Ace The Ocarina Maker do this the other day, and thought this would be a good idea for you to do lol
Uber Upgrades is a thing that already existed.
Now do this, but everyone is already upgraded to the max.
First comment now nobody will notice im gay
@Ariel 🗿
he's machining
I have a feeling this meta is still not fully developed, as the general public still does not fully comprehend the absurdity of how strongly upgrades scale. Namely,
1.Medic's shield and canteen specialist - of which has been used in 2manning(beating MvM with only 2 players, a niche gamemode of a community of elite MvM players) with a Medic-Medic pair which has essentially been said to solve all waves without tanks, and with as little as $400. The theory is that both medics would equip stock, and they would cycle through their ubers and shields as either one is effectively invincibility to stupid robots who are unable to walk around or through shields to damage the med internally, all while the shield kills them over time. Even regarding the fact that players could do the above mentioned, shields will still provide an incredibly annoying level of blockage, especially considering that they also charge from the patient doing damage and amount of damage blocked during full uber(including canteens). This only gets more ridiculous as you add canteens, as a Med-DPS(usually soldier or pyro, with heavy reserved for very specific points or for newer 2manners who are less experienced) has been shown to be incredibly game-breaking since both players are effectively immortal with not much to be done on the med's part, only relying on knowledge and little gamesense(although the same could not be said of the patient).
2. People should look into running beggar's. Beggar's has the highest overtime DPS, which becomes very apparent in a gamemode that turns his tap-fire's slow burst into a steady stream of rockets. Combine this with any half-decent soldier who has survivability in mind rather than just sacing for damage, and you get the current state of the MvM meta.
3.Was this test run with resistance upgrades? Those are insanely strong upgrades with relatively lower commitment. Think about it: $600(50% resistances) to be what is effectively nigh immortal to a specific damage type. For some, fire damage will likely not come into play(unless the enemy team is running phlog-uber), as the main damage point of flares are in the crits, and the constant stream of flames will only kill someone if taking them by surprise.
Point 1: medic was very much prevalent, but mostly because the projectile shield is super strong.
Point 2: I actually took part of this experiment and Beggar's Soldier just couldn't stand much of a chance against supporting Pyros that can easily disrupt your rocket spam with an easy to hit splash projectile that will lead to your instant death, damage over time means nothing if you can't stay alive consistently to take advantage of it.
Point 3: Resistance upgrades were used, and that's partly what made Engie even more impossible to deal with since it's hard to kill him without Explode on Ignite, and even with resists to contest sentries for an extended period of time, the engie just undoes all your damage due to its super high health per metal spent healing the building, and can just plop down another one immediately using a canteen if it gets destroyed
Someone needs to combine this with mannpower lol
cow mangler could be pretty goud for shut down any sentry ?
So you're saying that if you implemented Mann vs Machine into the main game, the main game would become Mann vs Machine?
Hol’ up…that actually is what happens.
More emphasis on the Mann than on the Machine would be ideal.
More like Mann & Machine vs Mann & Machine
No it would become Mann vs Mann
fr
Everyone hates the Red tape recorder, until Engineer places a 2500 HP Sentry, suddenly the Red Tape Recorder is the Strongest
Impossible
The BLU Army and their engineers
Seek to destroy our pl_pier
But even then, from Upward to Process
The Red Tape Recorder is the Strongest!
@@TheodoresTomfooleries i see what you did there.
Is there a BLU tape recorder?
BLU still wont use it since its red
>walks up
>places 1000 hp sentry
>does not elaborate further
>wins game
>gets brown
>falls on ground
>refuses to elaborate further
>leaves
we do a little trolling
that was literally me in the video on swiftwater lol
Spy with red tape recoder can screw u up
>walks up
>places 1000 hp sentry
>Dragon's furry pyro who spams uber canteens comes out of nowhere
>Dies and gets his sentry destroyed
"You never knew how much important the slow animation of building a Engineer Building was until it was gone"
Just use the Jag and Rescue Ranger to never see them again
@@FieryBlazer9 The Jag makes the building faster but it is not insta
On this game mode the Jag might even be a downgrade because you can just make the Stock Wrench attack faster while still being able to remove sappers in 2 hits
you just turned the game into Overwatch, shooting at shields and tanks
lol i thought the same thing
exactly what i was thinking
Overwatch wishes it was as fun as mvm in normal gameplay
Gladly got fixed in Overwatch 2
canteen == ultimates
mvm upgrades == MOBA upgrades/equipment (paladins too)
evil tf2 tbh
This was the most fun thing in TF2 I've done in quite some time, the amount of bullshittery and chaos was hilarious. I do still think that the gas passer had a lot more of an effect on the meta than you gave it credit for as it essentially filtered out all of the more useless classes and forced everyone to play around avoiding get gas passed (and also the fact that it ignored medic shield and could instantly take down a shielding medic). Engineer definitely had the world in his hands with this one though.
so in other words, The Gas Passer is The Great Filter.
I imagine Pyro in general was very helpful to counter Medic shields too, since flames go straight through
Gas passser def seemed to be the big threat that kept Heavies from just spamming down nests in droves with a pocket each and pyros to keep the stabby boys away
Yes. As a medic, i felt the ease with which you could get medic picks with it was extremely powerful. Normally in the game, a medic has a lot more ability to control how much damage they take through positioning and surfing, but with the ass passer, you would often just die moments after the pyro appears on your screen. One counter was that you could invest in uber canteens, as you would generally have time between getting the gas passer effect applied and being burnt. Not a lot, but enough to activate the canteen and save yourself.
Yeah, it can be easy to overlook how much the mere threat of something can affect a situation. Even if it doesn't end up getting actively used that much, it still forces the opponent to pick strategies that can avoid it or work well against it.
For it to be _true_ MvM you should have also stacked revives into this, so that Medic could actually hold a candle to the level of Engineer Gaming happening here.
He did the revives on their own sometime back! I think that video inspired this one honestly.
So if it wasn’t in this game then I believe it was done so purposefully since that was already tested.
@@DoABarrelRol1l thats still dumb since it wasnt tested with this
Especially since he noted in his other video that revives made people group up, and a lot of the upgrades in MvM hinged on players being grouped up
At the end of the day, you can take the Mann Vs Machine mechanics out of the MvM, but you can't take the MvM out of the Mann Vs Machine mechanics. Gonna need a sentry buster for this meta.
Just remove insta building redeploy. Oh, then demoknight would unstoppable become meta
imagine every minute you get a demo spawn that is player controllable sentry buster, would be hella fun
@@jermasus yea, interesting
Give the caber an upgrade that insta kills sentries and you’re good to go
@@jermasus would be cool, except the engie has the rescue ranger (or he can just move it)
I would love to play a balanced version of this mode.
Yeah engineer would have to be really nerf(like his upgrade costing more or/and have sentry busters), then again there stuff like demoknight that would dominated.
If you want a game based around shooting at shields and tanks with too much health Overwatch exists
@@padacuw4722 OW2 fixed that
One could argue Mann-power's kinda like that
Now add man power.
I actually was already checking out this plug-in to play with my friends and some things to note: the plug-in already has convars to change the damage of the gas passer and medic shield. I asked the developer if he could implement this for explosive headshots and also an option to disable instant building placement because I already knew the meta would revolve around engineer with that. The developer agreed and said he will implement it whenever he updates next. When that is no idea.
soon™
@@Mikusch_ :)
@@hellsredeemer fr tho this looks so interesting, I wonder if that demo weapon that spams lots of stickies would be good into sentries(sorry I have not played in a long ass time)
@@d4s0n282 The Scottish Resistance.
Keep us updated, I wanna play Mann vs Mann with ya too!
The funny part about this is, even with no robots, this still ends up as Mann Vs Machine because Engi's buildings are machines.
New 10th class: Sentry Buster.
@@kevinbui6895 Give the civilian the ability to place and denotate C4
Mann vs Machine vs Mann
@@Johnnyupside New class: Taliban suicide bomber on a wheelchair.
@@kevinbui6895no,pay to unleash a sentry buster with the cash you earn
So, moral of the story: the wrangler is (as we all already knew) completely busted.
true dadd
No lol, it is only broken in context of MvM upgrades.
In normal tf2 it is balanced.
@@madkirby823 99% of the player base would disagree. I main engineer and I think it’s overpowered.
@@Geebanger0 It is good for 2 things only. Stalling ubers and saving sentry from spam out of sentry range.
So basically hard defense scenarios. Wrangler is more often than not a noob trap, leaving engineer defenseless.
If it is so op, where are all the clips of it owning the match? That one single sigafoo clip before 3 nerfs 12 years ago?
@@madkirby823 a weapon isn't defined as overpowered because it's capable of singlehandedly winning a match, and to say that just shows how distorted your view of the games balance is. The wrangler is overpowered because it can increase your sentry guns effective health and damage at no downside. It's not a noob trap, and it doesn't leave the engineer defenceless since he can use his (now much stronger) sentry to deal with any enemy of his choice.
Valve should add Mann VS Mann as an alt gamemode. This looks sick as fuck.
Check Bounty Mode in TF2 and TCRF wikies. They tried.
Stop that tank is better
A tf2 pve gamemode where the mercenaries are on the offensive rather than the defensive.
They could be fighting a paramilitary faction called "the brotherhood of arms" after the scrapped "team fortress 2: brotherhood of arms"
Players would be able to get a different set of upgrades focused more on offense, available from upgrade stations in the junctions between different sections of the map.
A version called uber upgrades exist. What few servers had it, went to hell
@@UpgradedHumanCyberneticsI play a bunch of UberUpgrades servers, and they often devolve into Soldier blast radius spam meta
Interestingly, in a similar scenario done by acetheocarinamaker on a workshop map that enabled upgrades and canteens (but not insta redeploy afaik) on dustbowl, a demo knight meta of all things developed, due to the lack of melee resist allowing essentially anyone to be oneshot by a kitted out knight, resistance to regular weaponry and even air blast, a charge or Uber canteens to cleanse gas, and 100 health on kill.
Perhaps they simply didn’t try using level 3s seriously, but it’s an interesting alternate end state to the experiment
So ether sci -fi trench warfare or renaissance/1400s-1500s warfare.
The thing is his gameplay was very misleading. Not intentionally.
When players hard countered him via Pyro, Soldier, and Sniper he actually pulled out the Uber Canteen.
You can see most players did not have one and were buying them mid-lobby.
He accidentally created a P2W situation for people without Canteens. Leave or die.
I'm unsure too, but it seems like the Pyro, Soldier, and possibly even Sniper were asked not to abuse their stuns/air blast against Ace or they were just terrible players. Long story short it was a terrible environment for actual metas since from the current videos we have only seen the meta growing but not settling.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 Since when do you have to pay for Canteens? Don't you get them for free? Cause if not then I'm confused how I got mine then.
Ace played on a different version of this mod. In his version, the only way to make money is to get kills, so if you sat in the 2fort intel room as Engi you won't get any money until someone walks into your Sentry. So while Engi might have the better late-game, getting there was another problem. Meanwhile Boots/pipe + Tide + Half-Zato + Crit-on-kills means you kill someone, you can kill the entire enemy team. Kill team, earn lot's of money, buy lots of upgrades, and bam, you got Alchemist from Dota 2. Demoknight wasn't strong because it's upgrades were potent, but because he can get lots of net worth and just crush everyone else with it.
Meanwhile, Shounic's version of the mod someone picks up money, everyone get's money, so even if you get zero kills, as long as your team is doing well, you still get money for upgrades.
tl:dr Ace's version, one person snowballs out of control. Shounic's version, the team snowballs out of control. Dota 2/League of Legends vs. Heroes of the Storm, Base vs. Growth. Strong get's stronger by killing, weak get's strong by existing.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 my dude you can craft a canteen for like 2 reclaimed or get one for free after playing ONE MISSION of bootcamp, fuck outta here with that p2w
I had this idea in my mind for months now. Glad to see it being real.
It’s basically Uberupgrades
Today, kids, we're gonna learn why it is difficult to do mvm without an engie
It's even more difficult without a medic in higher difficulties.
*in two cities, on maps not built for the shield it's fine!
I use Sentry buster bug to make ubersaw farm for my medic to make my team happy
And on Manhattan map, sometimes i place teleporter exit on banana peel near grinder, and when teammates teleports, i pick it up and he slides right into it😂
Upgradable players game mode sounds amazing. But it have to be balanced. I would definitely like to see theres servers. But with nefed engineers. Or with a restriction on players, on certain classes
My brother in Christ, just play Paladins
@@All4Tanuki I forgot about that game. But hey at least it's not battle born
Just buff the Caber to do an inordinate amount's of damage to buildings. Or really just make Sentry busters a thing.
Just remove the Wrangler
@@All4Tanuki thanks, but im not a fan of p2w casino
Last time I seen this, it was people going demoknight to get through the resistances everyone has but sentries being a show stopping makes perfect sense.
2:14 it starts with
I remember accidentally joining a community server like this once and being insanely confused
One of Uncletopia's servers did this a while back and it was so confusing. I think it was gone the next day.
UberUpgrades?
Turned tf2 into a true MOBA, with enemies dropping gold to upgrade and (sentry) towers
Now I really want to see what effect removing instant redeploy would have on the meta.
Engie would still be busted because of canteens and the Jag- he can still yolo in and plop a Lv.3 down instantly for 50 credits. The Jag redeploys a Lv.3 in around 5.3 sec- it’ll still be up with a good amount of health even if you kill the engie by the time it’s done redeploying
Red would just win every time.
Or just make sappers work normally with no cooldown
@@Skullhawk13 The sappers are normal, buildings just have more health now which means it takes longer to destroy
@@echononame491 Sappers have a cooldown in MVM and this game mode. Don’t go correcting people when you’re wrong. I’m aware of how sappers work, But evidently you aren’t.
Dang, it's almost as if the Sentry Buster was added for a reasin...
Weird they didn't consider making Sentries less strongful.
Although they dont really pose a challenge to any engie whos not braindead and helps the team with free ubers
@@jermasus it's not about destroying a sentry, it's to disrupt their camping position by forcing the engie to pick up their sentry and get in the way of possible enemy fire.
@@luigifan4585Also makes em more vulnerable if using the rescue ranger due to it's mark for death
Valve used to actually care about balance in mvm
Now combine this with the mode where any class can use any weapon.
And combine those with the mode that removes the overheal limit
@@brisloviayt829 And combine it with x10, x50, x1000, x2000, x,10,000
This is basically Uber Upgrades. If anyone doesn't know, Uber Upgrades is a custom gamemode for community servers that would allow you to upgrade pretty much anything about a class, and to a very high extent. You could upgrade speed, jump height, air control, damage, weapon speed/reload, ammo, and all kinds of crazy stuff. I don't know if there are any servers still around that actually run the gamemode, let alone any ones that are still populated.
There are still servers, but yeah, not commonly populated.
I love it when Gaben said "I'm machining" and then machined all over the place
xd!!!!!!!!!!
who could've thought that the only way to make spy more viable than sniper was to buff his movement speed to 133% and give him 75% resistances
me
new enforcer buff: gives you light speed and 75% resistance to all sources (its balanced because it has no random crits)
I mean, speed is 100% a major reason for Spy's current struggles. It generally takes too long for Spy to make plays, meanwhile a class like Sniper can get picks the second an enemy enters his line of sight.
(well also, medic's uber shield does significantly nerf snipers bc you can extend beyond cover to overheal a lot easier AND block off a lot of targets)
@@trainershade1937 If a Spy could make plays that fast there would be 0 counter play. It would be like having an invisible sniper that could be anywhere or that ally.
It isn't so much Spy is weak but neither Spy nor Sniper work in FPS games well.
Making fights 1-sided is not how PvP should work.
It's a bit disappointing that you didn't remove the insta-deploy and conduct a second test session. It would certainly make the game less engineer-centric if the 500 HP sentry took as long to set up as a regular one
so now its mann vs mann
That's how plugin is called
@jessemathis9212 nah,that's just regular MvM but with engineers.
On second thought it would be Mann & Machine vs Machine
somebody needs to host this gamemode on a community server permanently, this is so good
I was thinking a weekly rotation of funny game modes.
-this
-medic revives
-maybe a classic 10x
-normal but no 12v12 cap / half time respawn
-balanced version of this
Etc would be pretty fun. Assuming you put in a an hour a day I think the novelty would wear off in a week or so.
Über upgrades
would love to see what a comp team in this gamemode could do
Die because those suckers do t use spy or engineer
would basically abuse the three strongest classes with their upgrades to an insane, coordinated degree
overwatch
After implementing Left 4 Dead in the game, TF2 players decided to implement Overwatch.
If my memory is correct, which it probably isn’t, the sentry buster was added to MVM because engineer was too powerful, and that is something
It amazing how munch of tf2 balance is highly influence by engineer(or sniper)
That's back when valve actually cared about balancing MvM, see also: giant knockback resistance (fucked up by jungle inferno), widowmaker not giving metal from tanks (also fucked up, but not sure if that's from jungle inferno).
This is how the gaspasser should always be
Forgotten?
Y'all remember the Halloween game mode with the giants?
What if instead of a giant, your team had a class limit of 1 Engineer?
Obviously there'd be a lot of fighting over who goes Engineer... but people kinda did that with the giants.
And also you could make Engineers move 50% slower, to kinda make them like Civilians.
oh i have wanted to see something like this for so long
thank you shounic
How prevalant was the backup on soldier, and what were the meta weapons in general
It was explode on Ignite Pyro, projectile shield medic, and engineer with the wrangler.
Backup was basically useless because you couldn't burst down the sentry fast enough before it kills you, even with the added resistances from the banner and upgrades.
And Explode on Ignite and the projectile shield damage pierces all resistances
@@luigifan4585 backup would probably be a lot more important for the crit immunity rather than sentry resistance considering the ease of access to crit canteens
@@TheTdw2000 It still saw very little use because Explode on Ignite instantly kills you
@@luigifan4585 does fire resistance not work on the gas passer? Even still, with an overheal and the buff active I think you can tank an explode on ignite unless it just bypasses all damage entirely.
I dunno about 'uncle dane's wet dream'- Dane's actually suggested the Wrangler needs to be nerfed, and the engineer needs to be balanced.
good point
his wet dream insofar as he's an engineer and he likes winning
I always felt like this is what Mannpower shoulda been
Overwatch but in the 1960s?
ocarina did something like this, the meta on their server seemed to be demo knight, because it bypasses basically all resistances from upgrades and other sources, gain so many resistances from shields and upgrades, can get crits on kill, charges, and everything else a demo knight has going
Is the server still up?? This looks super fun
Engineer meta? This is on you. You should have allowed players to play as sentry buster lol.
I can’t believe Gabe said, “It’s machin’ time,” and machin’d all over my screen. Truly one of the videos of all time.
not funni.
this joke has been run into the ground so much it is in the earth's core now
@@GunSpyEnthusiast Funni license revoked 😔
@@imawesomererthanyou no its on the surface.
it drilled from one side to the other.
That would be fun as hell
You should make server like this on regular schedule
This really makes me think of terran vs terran i starcraft, a meta made of three things, an overpowering defense that can slow push unstoppably across the map and win the game(siege tanks), that thing's counters(medivacs, liberators) and the counter's counters that get blasted by the defense(marines, vikings)
Have you ever seen the AI matches in Brood War? The AIs dont care about game time so it becomes a trench warfare of siege tanks + spidermines where each side slowly sweeps across the map
the gas passer wasnt meta because tacobot players would kick you if you tried.
Hey shounic, I was wondering how do I get to participate in these events? I've joined your server and chosen the roles but I have not gotten pinged about this at all.
The server where he gives notifis about experiments is a completely different one you have to been in
@@luigifan4585 do you have to be a patreon? If so then that's sad
Now combine this with the "everyone can use every weapon" thing before as well as maybe your other experiments like the sniper laser
Holy shit I’m featured in a shounic video!!! (as the rat infestation engineer with the Christmas hat)
It was probably the most fun 6 hours of TF2 I’ve had in many years. Thank you for running this experiment...
timestamp?
@@antonikudlicki1100 1:25-1:40 (that's mah sentry), 2:30-2:39 (when shounic literally made the "rat infestation" comment), and I think the one at 4:30 was mine too though the engineer's not shown so I'm not sure.
could be fun mode with some rebalancing
4:30 what about the quickie bomb launcher?
0:29
Oh no shit, you're telling me the most busted class in any team-shooter to ever be created, so overpowered that literally every single match of TF2 ever played exclusively revolves around him, was the meta when you made him _stronger?_ Gee, what a damn shock.
TF2 but with MVM upgrades meme play:
Play Pyro with the gas passer, have a friendly spy disguise as you (while you had the scorch shot equipped, after he disguised as you, you swap to the meme passer), throw the meme passer into a choke point, let your spy drop off a ledge and take fall damage to fake his death to drop you the scorch shot, spam it until the passer is full again. And if that doesn't work? Well I dunno. I never really use the gas passer for obvious reasons.
Gas passer doesn't start charged
@@TheTdw2000 Soooo. . . If you were to spam pick up with the Scorch Shot and the Gas Passer it wouldn't work? Oh well. guess that meme is out of the window for now.
This is LITERALLY just Uberupgrades!
I highly recommend Uberupgrades btw, it’s hours of fun. I particularly love rapid backstab instant cloak spy with super speed. Though if I remember correctly, the 100K HP heavy is meta. Frankly I’m sad people don’t remember it much anymore
I had a feeling The Wrangler would be involved when you mentioned the Engineer. It’s super duper busted in regular TF2 and MvM. Having it in a combined game mode wouldn’t change that, especially since buildings take no critical damage.
i wonder if clip size and attack speed on enforcer would be strong here. shoot down the sentry while its wrangled like normal.
Guessing that the homewrecker was a good melee for pyro
You'd think that, but then you'd be trying to melee a sentry. This aint your average pub, and these aint your average sentries. One health upgrade already evens out the damage bonus you get.
If you meant for helping your own engies, then yeah. It works.
@@InsightReasoning was thinking about both for the homewrecker. I guess the +25 damage increases and uber canteens aren’t enough. Probably still good at destroying teleporters
Did anyone try using the Homewrecker with max attack speed in this experiment?
Everyone running around with resistances and crap like rocket specialist or mad milk slow down is infuriating, but finding a good upgrade path can be very fun. Last time I played this on Redsun, I was running around with a Powerjack with HP, attack speed, and movement speed jacked all the way up. I was running faster than my scouts and actually faring a good chance against demoknights.
Normally what I found was that Enforcer spy and demoknight are insane with upgrades, albeit slow to start. Enforcer since you can't resist its damage, and demoknight for the same reason. Demoknight was stronger damage-wise but riskier since slows and stuns hurt much more.
i love it when he said "its machinin time" and machined all over the place
I really liked when Gaben said "STAND BACK ROBIN, I'M GONNA MACHINE"
give demo a sentry busting weapon and it'll be more balanced
I think the dev commentary gag in this video is one of my favourites so far
Really long time of stock sapper actually seems to be an advantage. If you clear out engie and his team from position and then sap his sentry, you're practically makes him useless for some time, since engie have to wait, until it gets destroyed, he's unable to use destruction pda. This might also bring up a niche subclass of "spy-pybro", how i call them, with Pyro, equipped by Homewrecker and Jetpack, making his way to sapped sentry
i love how this is treated as a science experiment
There is a reason why - in workshop - shield generator is a primary weapon replacement for the Heavy.
Also looks like MvM Gas Passer would not be too good in regular game, except the single target damage. Maybe its the buff that it needs
"TF2 barrier meta doesn't exist, it can't hurt you."
Overwatch's double shield meta all over again
6:20 not enough kids for that.
Changes I'd make:
Engie:
Limit Sentry Health Upgrade to 1 (or 2) Tiers
No instant Upgrade Canteens
50% or 67% slower re-deploy speed on Rescue Ranger instead of instant
Medic:
No Canteen Specialist
Spy:
Limit Speed Upgrade to Scout's Base running speed
Feel free to add or change anything that You'd think would make it more balanced.
How much would the meta change if the Medic's shield actually damaged buildings?
chip damage, not much
If you're close enough to damage the sentry with the shield it's going to shoot you
Also you could just get sniped by the huntsman or burned by a pyro
I wonder what it would be like if you made the players play 5-7 rounds, and each time the losers would gain some money for upgrades each time they rematch until the actual win is decided by amount of semi wins.
It was very nice to participate in this experience,I was the spy with kunai,it was amazing to play with an incredible speed and high jump,but thanks for the experience !!
Makes sense that the most OP options (explosive headshots, demo stickies, gas passer) are useless in this because A) no grouping up, B) smarter enemies, and C) Less enemies
Maybe a wild idea, but what if similar to getting random crits ingame (kritzkrieg effect), you could get random Ubers (stock medigun), random full heals (quickfix) and random resistances as well? (vaccinator effects)
So having the shop favours red team, and from the other video, reviving players favours blue team, so would combining them make the game balanced again?
I love the part where gaben said: "I'm machining". And machines all over the place.
Finally
Team Overwatch 2
loved when the engineer said "It's engineering time" and engineered all over the enemy team
Wait, emphasis on survivability, especially high movement speed and blocking damage? Sounds like Overwatch to me
My favorite part was when outro Gaben said "it's machinin' time" and machined all over the MvM players
The Deadlock alpha is kinda crazy looking back at it.
uber upgrades is a plugin that basically tales this to its lógica extreme: custom upgrades for every class and weapon that all have nearly no limit. you should play it, theres only like, 1 server that stillruns it
Ace the Ocherina Maker did this during this same week but just on CTF 2Fort
His sever devolved into ubercanteens and demoknight
finally, red tape recorder buff
you forgot the sentry busters, they would have balanced somwhat agains the defending engineers
You are too late, here is uber upgrades with its ridiculous level of upgrading.
this is what i wanted from the uber upgrade maps