Chris Date: Scriptural Evidence for Conditionalism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2023
- In this clip from the Defenders 2023 "Helluva Conference," @Theopologetics brings to the fore a few pieces of Biblical evidence for Conditionalism aka Annihilationism.
Watch all of Chris's lecture here: vimeo.com/ondemand/ahelluvaco...
The intramural Christian hell debate boils down to one question: Will God raise humankind from the dead indiscriminately immortal, or will he gift immortality to the saved alone, leaving the lost to die a second time and forever?
Treating Scripture as supremely authoritative-revering biblical theology as queen of the sciences-Chris Date will argue that the Bible teaches conditional immortality (a.k.a., annihilationism) while exploring some intersections between the queen and her servants (e.g., history, philosophy, apologetics).
#conditionalism #annihilationism #hell
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Short and succinct a great presentation
Great presentation and in under 5 minutes. Concise and true information.
Excellent compelling presentation Chris. I like the way you use Biblical language to express your view without resorting to changing the terminology to suit tradition or so called "orthodoxy".
That's some good evidence!
This is good. Thanks.
I guess you know about the work of Edward Fudge. The Fire That Consumes.
Conditionalism is definitely a tectonic shift in theology.
Only question is how are some punishments worse if everyone’s punishment is destruction?
The fire may not be instant. Some people may die more slowly or more painful depending on their wickedness.
@@Acta_Non_Verba Gotcha. I’m a little skeptical, but also I was wondering, it seems to me that the Lazarus passage has to be interpreted as a waiting place, so soul sleep wouldn’t be blotted out as an option to tag with C.I
@@ZachFish- I'm not sure.
My logical thought process is this. Humans need God to live. How can humans in hell, permanently separated from him keep living? Only God has immortality. Is he going to let the wicked eat the tree of life THEN throw them to hell?
@@Acta_Non_Verba Well God preserves life somehow.
That’s what I thought of recently, nothing is really eternal except Him, yet he gives demons eternal life in the lake but not humans for some reason.
In Luke 12:46-48 it indicates that there will be a difference in the duration of the punishment experienced by different people in hell. There can also be a difference in the magnitude of the punishment. People are not instantaneously annihilated, but rather they are EVENTUALLY annihiliated.
FYI typo in the title
Fixed! Happens to the best of us. Much appreciated.
There is no life in hell. Existence is not life, being in communion with God is life. Absence of communion with God is death and destruction
Those who die without Christ perish and are eternally dead. But what does it mean to be dead? What does it mean to be alive? What is eternal life? What is eternal death?
Jesus said that eternal life is to know the Father and the Son. What, then, is eternal death?
I'm not convinced at all of your position by this admittedly short talk.
Chris Date's lecture was part of our "Helluva Conference" wherein four different positions were given. Have you watched/listened to the other three? I'd be curious to see if you think any of the other three answered your questions concerning eternal death.
This presentation is a perfect example of someone proof texting and forcing preconceived interpretations into the scriptures. In Matthew 21:31, Jesus said that tax collectors and HARLOTS would enter the kingdom of God before (the chief priests and the elders). So when do these tax collectors and harlots wash their robes? Furthermore, when do the self-righteous chief priests and elders wash their robes to enter the kingdom of God? Because the message is clear that they all enter the kingdom of God at some point with the only condition being the order for which they enter. This is consistent with Paul's theme in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 where all are made alive in Christ but each person in their own order. Date is knowledgeable but he still misses the mark with this presentation.
So I take it that you are a universalist?
@@stevendrumm4957 I am.
Because we are gods in training (John 10:34), we must see the seriousness of sin. Even just one sin, like one cancer cell, will eat you up with enough time. The lost who die without salvation still have corrupting sin growing inside, progressing them towards satanic levels of evil with enough time. Look at the current behavior of Satan and his demons driven by hate and rage. How can anyone contain satanic evil in a group of lost immortal humans and angels? They will be so consumed by sin that all they want to do is “steal, kill, and destroy.” (John 10:10)
To me, eternal burning torment would only be NECESSARY if two reasons were both true: 1. The souls of all humans are immortal (i.e. all souls become conscious after conception and continue to exist into eternity future), and 2. The corrupting seed of sin that we receive from our parents grows progressively, irreversibly, absolutely, and completely given enough time to the point where the human soul is as wicked and corrupt as Satan and his demons.
At the time of physical death, a human soul is locked into either a saved state because they correctly accepted Jesus and therefore have the Holy Spirit within their being; or locked into a lost state where sin is still inside their being. In the latter state, sin is still growing and progressing to satanic levels of evil. Lost souls go to eternal burning hell because it is a fitting place and method of containing immortal satanically evil beings consumed with hate and rage.
The devil and his angels are current examples of complete corruption.
So, instead of scaring people into being good to avoid the flames of hell, I think it would be better to explain that we should be more scared of becoming eternally evil, like Satan. To do nothing allows selfishness to continue to harden us in our depravity to the point where we are oblivious to and uncaring that we are heading for satanic levels of evil. Repeating what I said before, there are only two choices in this life: Pursue being unselfish, pure, and loving like God by accepting a marriage-like covenant with the God-man Jesus Christ, or do nothing and let the seed of sin completely corrupt you like Satan with enough time.
Did you find Chris Date's argument for Conditionality compelling?
@@veracityhill No. If souls are immortal, then the word "apollymi" in Matthew 10:28 could mean the ongoing but never-ending process of destruction in ECT. The rich man and all the lost are experiencing ECT in the flames of Sheol in an intermediate body that is in flames but does not burn up. Chris also says that he doesn't believe that a person "ceases to exist." But isn't that what annihilation is all about? No more consciousness like before they were conceived? No, I still hold to ECT.
As time passes, sin’s natural progression is to hate righteousness more and more. We see this in 1 John 3:12-13 (NIV), “Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you.” The lost, like Satan and his angels, will grow more and more towards God and the righteous, even after death. The sin nature was never defeated by accepting Christ in mortal life. So it will progress to satanic levels requiring containment in Gehenna forver.