I have the 2002-2010 Fender Twin Pro Tube version. The reverb circuit is noisy as hell despite all my amateur efforts, new pan, new cables, change the pan orientation. I stumbled onto this TH-cam and heard you took the Effects Send into the Power Amp In and bypassed the reverb circuit. It works perfectly, the noise floor is now essentially zero. Instead of paying to have the reverb circuit fixed as you have done, I put a Strymon Flint in the (now modified) effects loop. WOW! Brand new amp! Last thing was to cool down the drive channel gain. Replacing the V2 12AX7 with a 12AU7. Been a long time, now it’s a keeper. Thank You.
It's nice to see someone that finally addresses the problems in the pro tube line amps. I devoted months to get rid of the hum that's present in the reverb circuit. I have the Pro Reverb model and I was able to stop the hum (low frequency noise) in the reverb. The transformers actually inject 100Hz/120Hz in the reverb pan. (first thing to check is that the pan is orientated correct in the cabinet to pick up the least noise that's possible, you might need to rotate it 180 degrees so the return side is further away from the mains xfrmr. It might be worse here in Europe because of the higher voltage which also makes a bigger emf in the cabinet. I went pretty hardcore and even installed a plate of mu metal on the bottom of the cabinet. The hiss and high freq noise is another thing. Better reverb cables directly soldered to the PCB made it a lot better but some hiss remains. That could indeed be impedance issues. I might need to revisit the amp and check that!
Had one of these. Great clean channel and the other channels could sound good if used judiciously. If you pulled two tubes and ran it in 1/2 power mode it could do decent drive from the clean channel. Sold it to a mate, who used it pro for years but ended up with an intermittent cut out that could never be diagnosed. Wondering if it's the speaker resistance selector, in retrospect.
I wish these weren’t circut board because this is my favorite fender amp ever made. Is it over complicated? Yes! If fender reissued this amp and made it a tad simpler it would be an incredible amp. As it is it’s still incredibly versitile
The G12C is a fantastic speaker. I just got one a few weeks ago and it murders the Weber “C12N” type speakers I have. I want to try one of the Jupiter 12” speakers(made by WGS) too, but there’s no parts to build them. I almost dished out the money for original mid 60’s Jensen C12Q’s, P’s and N’s and some Oxford 12K5/12M/12T6. I’m happy I gave that WGS a shot.
I have a black knob "The Twin" from like 92,93 or 94 maybe. It sounds good but it's noisy, even after I've brought it to a local tech... My dad's 65 Twin Reverb RI from 92 is dead silent! Does the The Twin suffer from the same issues?
I have the hiss and hum noise on all my red knob solid state amps. They all just have it. But I love their sound and design. Can I bypass the effect loops and lose some of the noise? Thanks in advance!
I have one, bought in 1994. It needs some serious attention paid to it, as it is a veery early build, before any revisions were made. It has all the faults that are listed here.
Very much enjoying your channel since I stumbled across it. If you'd see this I have been looking to get a decent amp for mainly home use and your vids have dissuaded me from Hot Rods. What are your takes on Princetons or AC 30s?
Good choices, better than the HRD for sure, though the Deluxe Reverb is more comparable to an AC30 or even AC15. Lots of videos on the Princeton Reverb RI and Vox ACxx Custom on the channel.
@@PsionicAudio thank you for the reply! Yeah, for my purposes An AC15 probably makes more sense. I thought to ask because my 1st tube amp is a Monoprice 15 and while it sounded VERY nice after stepping up from the modelling amp I had, just over a year after buying it (literally days after the warranty expired) something happened that it now has a level of noise that while not unbearable makes it annoying to say the least. New high quality tubes aren't the issue so I'm guessing something cooked in it. It's not worth having it repaired (and Im not interested in electrocution) so I'm in the market for a decent but not hyper expensive amp. I literally had a HRD in my cart and was rewarded with your video on the non changes to the IV model by the algorithm and I'm very glad. Thanks again for the reply (and for your channel) as you've certainly saved me a ton of money. Which as a disabled vet with a daughter in college means a lot. Obviously you've earned a Sub and a fan. Take care.
As for the impedance switch issue, I would say to repair it as it came from the factory, maybe use a better quality part of a similar design that fits. Sucks when you got a two inch gash and a one inch bandaid to put on it, but you work with whatever you've been given. So many artists buy complex equipment and only use a single, little aspect of it's capabilities because that is the "sound in their head." That is the life and desire of the fickle player. Good luck on this project.
I had one of those devils I bought new in '94 I think. Had the worst tube set I think I ever encountered in a new amp. A retube got it to generate a respectable sound as, well, a Twin. The channel switching stuff was horrid. A look inside scared the wits out of me and after a few years of it sitting around here getting in the way it went to the land of Craigslist.
Had one of these and it caused many sleepless nights wondering why the hell is going to go wrong with it next. On paper looks like the perfect amp, that was far from my experiance
I have one of these, bought in 1996. I hope you post some internal shots, as I need to replace the Treble pot on the Clean channel, and I’m hoping to preview what I’m gonna see when I pull the chassis.
If it was my amp, I’d have you make all the fixes and changes you recommend. There’s no vintage value on an amp like this, so if I’m keeping it after so many problems, I’d want to max it out and try to avoid the many other problems you point out that are soon to come.
How did you determine that there is no vintage value? You mean some day no one is going to say " Those Twins were badass in their day. Wish I had a original unmodded version." I'll keep mine as close to stock as possible just in case you're wrong. J K. We all have to do what we do. This 1 is my back up amp to my Boogie anyways. This loud son of....doesn't get a lot of playing time anymore.
Hey, I like the Vintage Gain channel! Unfortunately, I do have the same hiss on the reverb on mine as well. Pretty sure it’s gotten worse since it was new. Haven’t done any work on mine except changing tubes. I wish all amps had the same bias/balance pots and test points as this model. For the last few years I’ve had mine running in 13watt mode but it’s still loud.
Without talking with the client, I would not do any "mods" but make it reliable...i.e. caps, switches, speakers but avoiding changing the circuit...possibly raising components for cooling...I hope you get a chance to have feedback but I'm not hopeful..I'm assuming, as a professional musician, he likes the amp and changing it could be upsetting
This may be a ridiculous question, but im going to ask it anyway. I have a the Fender (red knob) The Twin, and my question is can the power transformer be replace to something a little lighter, and maybe convert the amp to something like a 50w pro reverb ? Im talking about making this a completely different amp without having to replace everything, but maybe a few components.
There was the 135 Watt CBS Twin Reverb, then the Rivera designed Twin II 1985-87, then a just plain "Twin" 1987-93 then "The Twin" (the red knob) 1993-4, and then this one, was just called "Fender Twin" again. FUN! Then the reissue 65 Twins came out. Fender really super overcomplicated these things, especially with that Cyber Twin modeling mess. Kemper is nailing down the modeling thing pretty nicely. I hate to admit it but... Yeah those things are lotsa fun! I don't know why Fender cut off all the Rivera stuff so abruptly when they sold away from CBS. That was super stupid. The Rivera ____IIs and especially his rack mount studio guitar amps, wow! It was one of THE staple amps for a union wage studio guitarist.
The Red Knob Twin was the 87-93 model (later versions having black knobs but same style knob). This one is officially the “94’ Twin Amp” which lasted until about 2000 when it was replaced by the Pro Tube Twin (which had only one input jack, tremolo, and little square push switches for channel changes). Supposedly that one was internally identical to the last Fender made Sunn amp. I’m not sure how long that lasted. You could say their successor was the short lived Supersonic Twin.
@@WillieD7 Yep, the 87-93 was the red knobs "The Twin". I have one which is from '89 and it says "The Twin". They are often mistakenly named the "evil Twin" which was the red knobs' successor. In any case, my red knobs Twin has, to this day, the best clean channel I ever played through. Loud, headroom for days and it really has the bell-like Fender chime I had been looking for when I got mine around '95. I really get why it was Robben Ford's favorite backline amp when he couldn't play his Dumble.
A side trip Lyle? I own a Cyber-Twin, as well as a Cyber-Deluxe, and both can work quite well as far as eliminating the number of amplifiers I used to use. But that doesn't mean I'll give up the old tube Fender amps I still have.
So, this might be a bit of a weird question, but are there any preamp pedals that can do this sound, or is it more or less in line with any other Fender Twin? Mostly asking cause one of my favorite bands (MSW/Hell) uses one and I'd like to get somewhat close to that sonically , without having to buy an old, troublesome amp, if I can help it.
According to a gear page I looked at, that artist uses the 2002 Pro Tube Twin. This is the 94’ (which would be significantly worse for doom stuff). The 2002 model was internally much more similar to a late Sunn Model T.
@@WillieD7 Hmm, interesting, I could've sworn that MSW told me that it was a 90s Twin amp (but not the red knob one) so I assumed it would be this one. He even used it to record bass (which is more something I'd expect to do with a Model T). EDIT: Nvm, turns out it's a 2004 one indeed.
@@WillieD7 I know some people said that the Fender reissue of the Model T was just a beefed up Fender amp (either a bassman or a twin, I don't recall), but hearing it the other way around is a new thing to me. What did they do to the Twin in that generation?
You have to get a strat with real single coils to demo your amps. Nothing against Kinman , but they are not my favorite pick ups. Get a p90 guitar as well. Just saying.
The Twin Amp was poorly executed. When we rented backline for Pat Metheny, he requested a red knob twin since we had no Dumble. The same with B.B. King. He requested a red knob twin since we did not have a Lab Series L5. I share your frustration. I sometimes find myself having to deal with an artist's assistant for instrument repair.
i have multiple "the twin" red knobs. overall, they've been very reliable. also... i note that, like you, it can mimic some extremely boutique stuff. Steve cropper also uses the red knob as his back line. best part. my cleanest one 275.00... i spent more on the replacement speakers.
This is much like telling a tailor just make the suit fit with out the one who ware it to measure. Try telling the third party to watch the video and hope that informs them of what is going on . Good luck with that .
Hmm alarm bells be ringing for me. That amp is a POS unless you do a TON of work. That means its must have sentimental value only to the owner. That means any kind of change *needs* to be discussed beforehand, surely?
I have the 2002-2010 Fender Twin Pro Tube version. The reverb circuit is noisy as hell despite all my amateur efforts, new pan, new cables, change the pan orientation. I stumbled onto this TH-cam and heard you took the Effects Send into the Power Amp In and bypassed the reverb circuit. It works perfectly, the noise floor is now essentially zero. Instead of paying to have the reverb circuit fixed as you have done, I put a Strymon Flint in the (now modified) effects loop. WOW! Brand new amp! Last thing was to cool down the drive channel gain. Replacing the V2 12AX7 with a 12AU7. Been a long time, now it’s a keeper. Thank You.
It's nice to see someone that finally addresses the problems in the pro tube line amps. I devoted months to get rid of the hum that's present in the reverb circuit. I have the Pro Reverb model and I was able to stop the hum (low frequency noise) in the reverb. The transformers actually inject 100Hz/120Hz in the reverb pan. (first thing to check is that the pan is orientated correct in the cabinet to pick up the least noise that's possible, you might need to rotate it 180 degrees so the return side is further away from the mains xfrmr. It might be worse here in Europe because of the higher voltage which also makes a bigger emf in the cabinet. I went pretty hardcore and even installed a plate of mu metal on the bottom of the cabinet. The hiss and high freq noise is another thing. Better reverb cables directly soldered to the PCB made it a lot better but some hiss remains. That could indeed be impedance issues. I might need to revisit the amp and check that!
Not being able to talk directly to a client is a receipt for disaster...
Nice Al Green Love and Happiness thing right at the end. Was that a secret message?
There's a third version, the later "pro-tube" Twin Amp that had no push pull pots, 2 channel with tremolo and presence.
Always a daily source of inspiration. Please keep them up! :)
Had one of these. Great clean channel and the other channels could sound good if used judiciously. If you pulled two tubes and ran it in 1/2 power mode it could do decent drive from the clean channel. Sold it to a mate, who used it pro for years but ended up with an intermittent cut out that could never be diagnosed. Wondering if it's the speaker resistance selector, in retrospect.
I wish these weren’t circut board because this is my favorite fender amp ever made. Is it over complicated? Yes! If fender reissued this amp and made it a tad simpler it would be an incredible amp. As it is it’s still incredibly versitile
The G12C is a fantastic speaker. I just got one a few weeks ago and it murders the Weber “C12N” type speakers I have.
I want to try one of the Jupiter 12” speakers(made by WGS) too, but there’s no parts to build them.
I almost dished out the money for original mid 60’s Jensen C12Q’s, P’s and N’s and some Oxford 12K5/12M/12T6. I’m happy I gave that WGS a shot.
absolutely love my Jupiter 12 inch alnico! Very rich cleans.
I have a black knob "The Twin" from like 92,93 or 94 maybe. It sounds good but it's noisy, even after I've brought it to a local tech... My dad's 65 Twin Reverb RI from 92 is dead silent! Does the The Twin suffer from the same issues?
I have the hiss and hum noise on all my red knob solid state amps. They all just have it. But I love their sound and design. Can I bypass the effect loops and lose some of the noise?
Thanks in advance!
I have one, bought in 1994. It needs some serious attention paid to it, as it is a veery early build, before any revisions were made. It has all the faults that are listed here.
Any updates from this cliffhanger episode?
Very much enjoying your channel since I stumbled across it. If you'd see this I have been looking to get a decent amp for mainly home use and your vids have dissuaded me from Hot Rods. What are your takes on Princetons or AC 30s?
Good choices, better than the HRD for sure, though the Deluxe Reverb is more comparable to an AC30 or even AC15.
Lots of videos on the Princeton Reverb RI and Vox ACxx Custom on the channel.
@@PsionicAudio thank you for the reply! Yeah, for my purposes An AC15 probably makes more sense. I thought to ask because my 1st tube amp is a Monoprice 15 and while it sounded VERY nice after stepping up from the modelling amp I had, just over a year after buying it (literally days after the warranty expired) something happened that it now has a level of noise that while not unbearable makes it annoying to say the least. New high quality tubes aren't the issue so I'm guessing something cooked in it. It's not worth having it repaired (and Im not interested in electrocution) so I'm in the market for a decent but not hyper expensive amp. I literally had a HRD in my cart and was rewarded with your video on the non changes to the IV model by the algorithm and I'm very glad.
Thanks again for the reply (and for your channel) as you've certainly saved me a ton of money. Which as a disabled vet with a daughter in college means a lot. Obviously you've earned a Sub and a fan.
Take care.
Red Knob is awesome. Was a dream amp for me.
As for the impedance switch issue, I would say to repair it as it came from the factory, maybe use a better quality part of a similar design that fits. Sucks when you got a two inch gash and a one inch bandaid to put on it, but you work with whatever you've been given. So many artists buy complex equipment and only use a single, little aspect of it's capabilities because that is the "sound in their head." That is the life and desire of the fickle player. Good luck on this project.
Why does the gain channel on this amp have such a bad reputation? It sounds AWESOME!
Looks like you have "Hurry up and wait".....Great work, I soak up something new and interesting every time.
It's been my experience that Fender tube amps made in the last few decades are extremely unreasonable. I'll never buy another one.
Couldn't you make the effects loop switchable??..a rotary on the back might have been ample to shunt the send and return??
How did this turn out?
Where you able to talk to the musician directly?
Red knobs are $150 used. What’s the big deal?
I had one of those devils I bought new in '94 I think. Had the worst tube set I think I ever encountered in a new amp. A retube got it to generate a respectable sound as, well, a Twin. The channel switching stuff was horrid. A look inside scared the wits out of me and after a few years of it sitting around here getting in the way it went to the land of Craigslist.
Had one of these and it caused many sleepless nights wondering why the hell is going to go wrong with it next. On paper looks like the perfect amp, that was far from my experiance
I have one of these, bought in 1996. I hope you post some internal shots, as I need to replace the Treble pot on the Clean channel, and I’m hoping to preview what I’m gonna see when I pull the chassis.
If it was my amp, I’d have you make all the fixes and changes you recommend. There’s no vintage value on an amp like this, so if I’m keeping it after so many problems, I’d want to max it out and try to avoid the many other problems you point out that are soon to come.
How did you determine that there is no vintage value? You mean some day no one is going to say " Those Twins were badass in their day. Wish I had a original unmodded version." I'll keep mine as close to stock as possible just in case you're wrong. J K. We all have to do what we do. This 1 is my back up amp to my Boogie anyways. This loud son of....doesn't get a lot of playing time anymore.
Hey, I like the Vintage Gain channel!
Unfortunately, I do have the same hiss on the reverb on mine as well. Pretty sure it’s gotten worse since it was new. Haven’t done any work on mine except changing tubes. I wish all amps had the same bias/balance pots and test points as this model.
For the last few years I’ve had mine running in 13watt mode but it’s still loud.
Without talking with the client, I would not do any "mods" but make it reliable...i.e. caps, switches, speakers but avoiding changing the circuit...possibly raising components for cooling...I hope you get a chance to have feedback but I'm not hopeful..I'm assuming, as a professional musician, he likes the amp and changing it could be upsetting
This may be a ridiculous question, but im going to ask it anyway. I have a the Fender (red knob) The Twin, and my question is can the power transformer be replace to something a little lighter, and maybe convert the amp to something like a 50w pro reverb ? Im talking about making this a completely different amp without having to replace everything, but maybe a few components.
I have the older Red Knob The Twin. Its a killer amp IMO.
I owned an Evil Red Knob Twin and I did NOT like the amp. Very cold and sterile sounding amp. Now my BF Twins I love ;-)
Red knobs are NOT evil twins.
Got an original REB knob Evil Twin, needs a faceplate, Almost done restoring!
I wish and hope your aspirations come true. Short of that, into every life a little rain must fall.
There was the 135 Watt CBS Twin Reverb, then the Rivera designed Twin II 1985-87, then a just plain "Twin" 1987-93 then "The Twin" (the red knob) 1993-4, and then this one, was just called "Fender Twin" again. FUN! Then the reissue 65 Twins came out. Fender really super overcomplicated these things, especially with that Cyber Twin modeling mess. Kemper is nailing down the modeling thing pretty nicely. I hate to admit it but... Yeah those things are lotsa fun! I don't know why Fender cut off all the Rivera stuff so abruptly when they sold away from CBS. That was super stupid. The Rivera ____IIs and especially his rack mount studio guitar amps, wow! It was one of THE staple amps for a union wage studio guitarist.
The Red Knob Twin was the 87-93 model (later versions having black knobs but same style knob). This one is officially the “94’ Twin Amp” which lasted until about 2000 when it was replaced by the Pro Tube Twin (which had only one input jack, tremolo, and little square push switches for channel changes).
Supposedly that one was internally identical to the last Fender made Sunn amp. I’m not sure how long that lasted.
You could say their successor was the short lived Supersonic Twin.
@@WillieD7 Yep, the 87-93 was the red knobs "The Twin". I have one which is from '89 and it says "The Twin". They are often mistakenly named the "evil Twin" which was the red knobs' successor.
In any case, my red knobs Twin has, to this day, the best clean channel I ever played through. Loud, headroom for days and it really has the bell-like Fender chime I had been looking for when I got mine around '95. I really get why it was Robben Ford's favorite backline amp when he couldn't play his Dumble.
A side trip Lyle? I own a Cyber-Twin, as well as a Cyber-Deluxe, and both can work quite well as far as eliminating the number of amplifiers I used to use. But that doesn't mean I'll give up the old tube Fender amps I still have.
So, this might be a bit of a weird question, but are there any preamp pedals that can do this sound, or is it more or less in line with any other Fender Twin? Mostly asking cause one of my favorite bands (MSW/Hell) uses one and I'd like to get somewhat close to that sonically , without having to buy an old, troublesome amp, if I can help it.
According to a gear page I looked at, that artist uses the 2002 Pro Tube Twin. This is the 94’ (which would be significantly worse for doom stuff).
The 2002 model was internally much more similar to a late Sunn Model T.
@@WillieD7 Hmm, interesting, I could've sworn that MSW told me that it was a 90s Twin amp (but not the red knob one) so I assumed it would be this one. He even used it to record bass (which is more something I'd expect to do with a Model T).
EDIT: Nvm, turns out it's a 2004 one indeed.
@@WillieD7 I know some people said that the Fender reissue of the Model T was just a beefed up Fender amp (either a bassman or a twin, I don't recall), but hearing it the other way around is a new thing to me. What did they do to the Twin in that generation?
I love mine
I had a Red Knob that was a service boomerang, and was turning into a black hole. Hopefully, this doesn't happen to you.
Hope you get a call. I know what its like when the guy you need to speak with won't communicate.
How's the weather?
You have to get a strat with real single coils to demo your amps. Nothing against Kinman , but they are not my favorite pick ups. Get a p90 guitar as well. Just saying.
Wonder who the owner is? Any hints? Great video!
Al Green
The Twin Amp was poorly executed. When we rented backline for Pat Metheny, he requested a red knob twin since we had no Dumble. The same with B.B. King. He requested a red knob twin since we did not have a Lab Series L5. I share your frustration. I sometimes find myself having to deal with an artist's assistant for instrument repair.
i have multiple "the twin" red knobs. overall, they've been very reliable.
also... i note that, like you, it can mimic some extremely boutique stuff.
Steve cropper also uses the red knob as his back line.
best part. my cleanest one 275.00... i spent more on the replacement speakers.
I think the guitar community has replaced "Good/Average" sounding with "Bad". If it isn't subjectively "Great" than it sucks.
Write a note and send it along with the amp!
Anyone figure out who it is yet?
Al Green
This is much like telling a tailor just make the suit fit with out the one who ware it to measure. Try telling the third party to watch the video and hope that informs them of what is going on . Good luck with that .
Hmm alarm bells be ringing for me. That amp is a POS unless you do a TON of work. That means its must have sentimental value only to the owner. That means any kind of change *needs* to be discussed beforehand, surely?
One Problem with the Twin and the Red Knob Twin…poor design and a Fender POS PCB.
And this was made in the U.S.A; go figure.
doa
A guitar player that's too famous to talk directly to the tech doing his work? Maybe a little too into his fame to talk to a normal person?
most of the pro players have their guitar tech,on the road or studio or both,he goes to the tech and explains the situation.