How it's made - Omega forged pistons - Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2019
- We visit Omega pistons to see the fascinating process of forging a 73.5mm A-Series racing piston.
Part 2 - • How it's made - Omega ...
Part 3 - • How it's made - Omega ... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Totally different to what I expected. Great video.
have used many sets of omega pistons over the years, all have done there job faultlessly ,a quality product. Nice to see where and how there made
I installed some heating at Omega 30years ago when they had not long installed the forge. I was chatting to the old chap who ran the business and he was telling me about how when they first started forging pistons they were nearly all scrap due to die lubrication problems. They had had various specialist companies in with sprays lubes etc but no joy. he had nearly given up and he was chatting to a guyin the pub who had worked on a forge all his life. He told him the trick of offering the pot of lube up to the die (1.22 ) they went from nearly 100 percent scrap to have a reasonable sucess rate overnight.
Not long after a team from Honda came for a look around and picked up a forged piston and asked how they had made it as they didnt believe it could be forged in that shape . As luck would have it a billet was just up to forging temperature he dipped the die and forged the billet . Luckily it came out perfect the Honda team were very impressed.
Hgccx
BS. It was a bar not a pub. And you left the part out where the guy paid for his chicken fingers and potatoe sticks.
The only bars around then we're the alloy ones used for forging the pistons .
@@nickbadi3599 ahahhaha nice one.
That's funny, the old bloke at that time was my dad, Fred, he's still there now operating machines at 85 ;)
Ace, great videos!!! Really appreciate being able to get this sort of insight!! 👍👍
Great video. Thank you for taking the time and putting this together Steven. Very informative. Big Thank you!!
Loving these videos, really informative.
When it came out of the press, it looked like one of my racing two stroke pistons after a meltdown sieze up.
Right? I have melted a few in my sled motors.
Nothing like a bot of controlled chaos.
Very cool! Thx for posting!
Excellent work 👍👍👍
I love this channel!
Looks like a good job to have in the cold winter.
That's neat.
Always wondered how they go about forging those. Very interesting.
Just got my lotus esprit pistons from Omega! they do look very very nice!
Great video guys, thank you.
Make sure to put back that suace pan to the kitchen. :)
That press can punch a hole through across the globe :-)
Awesome vid
Very nice work
Amazing
Wish they would of shown the complete process including the machining.
mantap
This Pistons are well done. 👍😊 Like auf Steak.
.....Wowwww!!.Thank you very much. I'm from Thai land.🎃🚬
Chế tạo quá đẳng cấp bạn ơi.
Very interesting! Great video!👍from me
Very coool...🤔
using your manufacturing process for an engineering project in my undergraduate! what is the size of the initial aluminum bars?
Hello , please tell me what press pressure is necessary for forming this piston, it is very important to me . The video is cool 🤘 🤘 🏿 💪
some factory honda B series type-R pistons are made by them
I need skirts that long. Might help my ej25 stop slapping... ha ha ha
What temperature do you hear up the billet before forging?
Specific!
hello. I live on the other side of the earth. is it possible to specify the weight of the production process? or to produce jointly in our country ?
heh heh heh. i do this at home ;)
well, not quite. i dont have billet (surprisingly hard to get!) so i melt down pistons scored from the racetracks...
pour in the mold, let it set... then slam it with the fly press whilst its still pliable. casting... then forged.
a piston is amazingly simple to make. yet its amazingly complex! most of its in the accuracy... dead square pin with dead on tolerance bore and the ovality...
Can anyone tell whether zinc aluminum alloy is good for making pistons of bitzer semi hermetic?
Now I understand why pistons cannot casting... Much better to pressed to compressed the aluminum material for greater strength, I saw some video on TH-cam attempting to copy the piston rod just to recycle the spare parts of a car made of aluminum cans. It works actually but didn't last long cuz it's casted...
Just curious, what liquid do you guys use to quench the piston after heat treating? I understand medal can be quench in oil or water after heating to certain degree.
It's a closely guarded secret that one, sorry.
How Much pressure is required to do that to billet
How many forgings can you do with that tool, before it has to be reworked or replaced?
Omega still has some early forging tools from the '70s. So quite a long time if used properly!
Mechanic porn, Old-school.
Hi ! How long does it take to produce a piston - from raw material to completely finished product ready for shipment ? Thanks
i would say theres about 1.5 to two hours work, all up. they could probably check time sheets and get a pretty good idea "per unit", but remember its all done as batch work... 100, 1000 at a time sort of thing. set that die up, and just punch out blanks for putting on a shelf, then run through on another size... finally a batch gets pulled down, jigs set up for specific runs, lathes tooled, boring machines clocked in... and yeah... hard to really say?
only have to set the jig up once for each run... some may stay set and be universal...
as a hobby machinist i never saw the sense in one-offs. i always try to make five, ten of something... depends what it is of course!
Mantap mister
Can you make piston from damascus steel.?
What is the press effort?
como se llama el horno donde estan los 500 pistones?
2:33 we have same boot
Wow, when I thought about forged aluminium pistons, never really thought it would be like this, just in one step. This is almost "extruded" pistons...
This is just the internal shape - there's a lot more to go yet!
this process is called "matrixing"...
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos I meant, forging in one step. Used to work on an iron forging company, and is done in multiple steps
Aluminum forging in this case is a reverse extrusion and formed in 1 shot, and must be formed slowly to prevent tearing!
What temperature we heat the die??
what's difference between a billet and a black?
I think billets are long pieces and small pieces like these piston pieces are blanks.
As a blacksmith i do like this , heat treating aluminium has me intrigued thou but i bet that a trade secret .. right ?
Not really, Alcoa aluminum has specs for this and gladly supplies it to the customer, Every alloy is different, If I remember right 4032 = 950deg @ 1hr and quench in 150deg water.
Thanks for the answer 👍
Looking forward to part 2 *:D*
P.S
Does Omega do piston rings in house too? If so, I would love to see that if at all possible!
Yes they do. Some are made in Japan, others in house. We'll ask - some stuff is under wraps as they've developed many of the processes themselves...
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos It'd be nice if you could do a tech friday vid, showing us amatuers how and where we can measure things such as piston rings, pistons, bores, cam lobes and similar so we know when to send money to you for new shiny things!
My brother works here he's claims he a shotblast technician 😂don't ya Tony 😉👌
@@56Seeker We've got a couple of measuring vids on the channel. Good ideas though - ring gapping would be handy!
MED - What options have you guys got for turbo charged applications on a +40 application without going down the 18cc dish route (as that would give my a CR of 7.8:1)?
We keep a 10cc +40 in the diecast Omega range if that may work for you?
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos might be of interest! What piston deck height are they on a standard crank?
@@Dagowly83 They're standard 1.498" crown height.
Techo porn....Give me more!!! Loved this Jason. What beads do you use? Show us your blasting cabinet.
I want Excalibur be made !
Need a 8-3/4” aluminum piston. 5 ring groves
Noice
My bike using 150 cc diasyl cylinder and forged piston.. ans liquid coollant too 😂👌🏻
So how does 2000 series aluminum compare to 7000 series like that used to make AR-15 uppers and lowers? Is it too brittle after the quench?
They are complete different applications lol
www.alcotec.com/us/en/education/knowledge/techknowledge/understanding-the-alloys-of-aluminum.cfm
@@joshdrobny93 Exactly!
This fire is on more than 8 hours I amagin the bill
dady big probably not that much to be honest, industrial grade fuels can come pretty cheap
Pretty high yes!
polish the fugg out of em, then coat, then balance match, oh boy, knife edged crank all polished up and balanced to the nuts.. fugg it, polish and balance the cams too, everything, weightmatch rods, rings, anything that moves
Cool word 'forged' like Thor's hammer, or Excalibur: "forged by the gods..."
God bless the ancient engineer who inventing the first forged tool, I wonder who it was?
Why 2618 instead of 2024 or 7075?
I was expecting the billets to be hotter, as in glowing red.
هل تستطيع صناعة سلندر ؟
Ah-loom-in-um. 😊
Blits of Al Millennium?
BTW he's from England
So can you forge a standard piston yourself ?
If youve got a 500 ton press at home, yes.
He has done it for HOW LONG?? couldn't stand to work in the same spot day after day
24 years is defenantly a long time but some people do much longer. Had a friend who's mom worked at publix for 40 years
Can you share the material of die and punch are made from. Please post the material composition sothat others can make dies and punches for their own jobs
Sorry but this is something Omega would rather not disclose.
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos this is the platform for sharing expirences no to hide.
@@gulshankapoor8924 Yes, to a point.
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos anyway thanks
'
what kind of vehicle use this piston
These are for BMC A-Series engines, so Minis, Metros, Sprites etc
Where is the part 2:)
On the way :)
So, after what I have seen in another video in which the piston manufacturing process includes them being cast and machined in many different procedures which is extraordinarily time consuming, I would think that forged pistons are cheaper to make.....but somehow they aren't.
If you check out parts two and three, you'll see the machining involved in making a forged piston is identical to that of a cast piston.
These could be even lighter with some perforation. I guess: consider magnesium surface layer for aluminium foam. Thank you for sharing knowledge.
Yeah
Did they make custom sizes ?
Yes, but this would require a new forging tool, which can be prohibitively expensive for a small batch.
hello good afternoon thank you for being beautiful thank you for being wonderful I hope you have a great day. Goodnight greatness in you is beautiful
Forging per hour a capacity
How do you spell Aluminum in Australia? Is it spelled "A-L-U-M-I-N-I-U-M"?
Interesting process because in when you quench carbon steel it makes it brittle and really hard. An opposite happens with aluminum, copper, gold and some other metals.)If you mechanically squeeze those metals they get hard and brittle and if you need an additional mechanical work to be done on it then you’ll need to either: heat it up or, better, heat it up and quench it.
Surprisingly in this video, they first press it then heat treat it and yet it is still stronger. Interesting.
Can you make a piston out of titanium material
It's not viable, no.
what does 2618 stand for ??
It's a grade of alloy.
I would have to do blood work and chest x-ray for long term workers.
You what?
@@hamstrtj , doing that kind of work over years I would suggests looking into health effects.
@@MrFuguDataScience you should focus on your English before complaining about others profession. You can clearly see they suck off the air from the forge. The rest is just dry and not toxic work.
@@hamstrtj Even with good ventilation, there is still the physical wear n tear on the human body! Working at Wiseco piston, (a larger manufacturer) I forged hundreds of thousands of pistons by hand no robotics every year for 16+ years! had to give it up because of health concerns!
Maybe he didn't wear his apparatus so that he could do a live commentary.
Who doesn’t love to see that hot aluminum squeeze out of the forge press!
Sorry, aluminium....
Why is aluminum underlined in red?
It is called Aluminium, youre missing an i ;)
@@daniel_6741 not in american english!
Damn...that hydraulic machine squeezes the shit outta them pistons, huh?
we aply lubrican.... the lubrican gone to vapor wgeb touch the hot iron...
then he swap the iron with towel...
I didn't think they'd use billet stuff to make forged, i thought more of cast aluminum.
Wonder how much strength, compressive strength, tensile strength going to billet to forged makes any difference or some difference vs. cast to forged.
@steve gale I understood the top portion but not the 50x stronger. i really have hard time believing its 50x stronger though... Anyways, thank you for information. :D
Lime , you could make a cast piston yourself , just heat aluminum until it melts and pour into a mold , a forged piston is already forged aluminum then heated up and pressed with 400 tons of pressure forging it again , any of this and what Steve Gale said sinking or being forged into your brain yet ?
@@jimthomas777 ooh ok. Thanks lol i was just curious :D
@steve gale wont the heat treatment cause recrystalisation undoing all the strain hardening of the forging process?
@steve gale no microfractures: cast aluminium =cristalisation, forged aluminium stretch the cristals to fibers: this made it much more flexible and streong...
Isn’t the point of heat treating then quenching to create hardness through tension in the case and the core? If you machine it, does that not reduce the hardness significantly? Like isn’t most of the hardness in the outer walls , hence, case hardness?
Heat treatment before the forging is to make it weaker/softer. Heat treatment after the forging is to remove tensions inside the materials. The material is extremely compacted by the forging, that gives it strength. There is no hardening involved in this manufacturing.
What alloy is used for pistons?
These particular ones are 2618 Aluminium
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos thanks, but I'm curious, isn't it better to have a lot of silicon in the piston? What the advantage of using 2618?
@@SunilSundar This is something Omega have spent many decades to perfect. You'd be best to contact them direct for more in-depth tech info.
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos ok. Thanks
@@SunilSundar In a race piston 2618 is the best, it can get a fatigue crack and still hold together, it can bend and bend without breaking. When you add silicon as in LM13 for casting or 4032 for forging, it adds a high wear factor but the trade off is a level of britleness. This is why high silicon piston are used more for road engines. Having said that, many people race a whole season with one set of Omega/MED dis cast pistons.
Sar Fiat petra kar ka piston ring piston
if you permission me i want to dubb your video in urdu launch your video in pakistan
To be very good forged is need that the clamping has no escapes on sides....if has escapes...os only presed aluminium not forged...
Do they spell aluminum differently too?
Do you mean aluminium? :p
@@MEDEngineeringTechVideos Really... You spell it that way? That just doesn't seem like a word we'd have different.
The English spelling is correct😎
@@tonyroma9046 the only country in the world who say "aluminum" is the USA, in all other countries in the world it's aluminium...
@@leneanderthalien
Apparently Canada is same as USA
www.thoughtco.com/aluminum-or-aluminium-3980635
Its not so labour intensive and fairly a simple process, so why are they so expensive???
Material cost and an enormous energy bill. Forging the piston is only the first process. There are many hours of machining once forged.
Never heard extrusion can also be called forging.
This is not extrusion.
Thanks. You are the expert. No arguments. Regards.
@@subramaniamchandrasekar1397 yes this is not extrusion: this process is in reality called "matrixing"...but the pistons from the common cars (inlusive GTI's) are mold , not forged/matrixed...
Extrusion is when it is pressed through a shaped die and comes out the other end with the same profile as the die. Kind of like how some pasta is made.
Forging is when a chunk of metal is heated till malleable and then formed between and upper and lower die.
Love the video but can anyone answer why you can get 8 forged pistons for a common Chevrolet 350 engine for $300 but it will cost you $1200 to get 4 pistons for a fiat, or lotus or escort
Not sure. We sell the forged Mini pistons for £540 Inc vat
Quantity as production numbers go down price ea goes up. How many people order lotus pistons probably not millions. So the same people probably make multiple types therefore tooling changes e.t.c.
Amiga pistons?
A lot of "eye-balling-technology" being used here
Eyeballing and touchy feely is the best way to find imperfections, and then measuring is used for the critical dimensions.
ask for genuine not forgery
Why do they cost so much?
Check out part two and three and this will likely answer your question.
th-cam.com/video/rN2ND_FPnUA/w-d-xo.html
You can understand why forged piston still the best choice of durability
Forging a MotoGP piston? Wow... What manufacturer?
Ducati
السلام عليكم✋👍