It is not only about code sharing flights, but sharing lounges for business class passengers. You didn't analyse that benefit of alliances for these two airlines.
It's not really a benefit for these airlines, all it does encourage other airlines passengers to use these often luxury & well run lounges, which prices out their own customers. Likes of Emirates have already built their own lougnes on key routes/alreadly have agreements in place. So really, they have little to gain & a lot to lose re this.
Good point. In business, upselling to customers can double your profit when you make a sale. Airport lounges are a critical part of the upsell that’s the difference between a $400 and $4000 ticket.
When you think about what Emirates brand is about, it’s no surprise that they keep the major alliances at arms length. Emirates brand is about delivering a high-end luxury experience to its customers. European Airlines understand this because they have to compete with trains. But Airlines in the United States don’t so the quality and experience is terrible in America, from lounge to seat. This is something even American travel TH-camrs have no problem saying in their videos. Knowing this, why would these flagship Middle Eastern carriers expose themselves to these alliances, which are mainly the brainchild of the big three airlines? The only reason Emirates is playing ball with United Airlines is because they have recently upgraded their lounge access at their Newark Hub recently and just opened a flashy brand new Terminal that was built and now being managed by Europeans. There are new plans, just released last week, for a new international Terminal to replace the old decrepit Terminal B. Emirates is playing nice with United to get into the new Terminal, which is mostly occupied by star alliance partners.
It's easier for Emirates and Etihad not to join an alliance because their business model relies heavily on the unique products that they offer, especially with premium carriers. It also doesn't hurt that they're entirely state funded and profit is not their main priority.
Thanks for addressing it. The video isn't even addressing the main reasons why, at least so far, they are not going for airline alliances. The business concept, especially for Emirates, is not to funnel as many passengers through their main hub as fast as possible. It's the opposite, the longer the passengers stay, the more income for the whole country. Including the political influence coming with it. For a global company having a central location for meetings is very beneficial. If you can treat customers with interesting and comfortable locations, the better. This is one of the main reasons why an even larger airport is to be built, to enhance the experience of the passengers. Turning business passengers into leisure passengers. And having full control of these operations enables the airline to control the passenger experience far easier than with alliance members who care more about the speed and range of the connections in the first place, a clear conflict of interest. As such, individual agreements provide far more leverage than the membership in an alliance.
Alliance are alliance but not single entity that profit are earned individually. Which you overlooked the possibility of hostilities within alliances. Which In case if they fight for the same direction of Market share they might turn hostile with each other. For example, Korean air and Delta have once been turn hostile over terms of codeshare on their transpacific flights even though they found Sky team that at once Korean Air switched to codeshare with American Airlines. But for the middle east 3, the problem can be even worse given that they can engage in rivalry with any airlines on one of some of their segments globally. And they have been somewhat more ambitious than other airlines on earth. Qatar airways for example, it have once turn hostile with American Airlines over Indian-American traffic(resolved) and hostile with Qantas for Kangaroo routes(not resolved). That makes almost alliance pay my scrutiny offer whether to let a Middle Eastern carrier(especially those who have oil) to join their alliance or the Middle Eastern carrier are trying to take advantage of them.
The main reason Qatar is hostile with Qantas is over Qantas getting Emirates as a joint venture partner *while* Qatar was in the process of joining oneworld.
I think it makes perfect sense for Emirates but I think being in an alliance would boost Etihad’s appeal as they seem to underperform in market share for such a great airline.
Etihad and Emirates are more interested in smaller regional airlines. For example, Emirates is interested in picking up a passenger from Mumbai, letting the passenger move around the Dubai airport for 4-5 hours, and then dropping off the passenger to Atlanta/Seattle/LAX/NYC/Denver etc. It is not interested in picking up the passenger from Aurangabad to dropping off the pax in Mumbai for the journey forward. Other than Qantas in Australia, which helps Etihad and Emirates drop off Australia and NZ bound passengers to a few large airports, not many deals exist between Etihad/Emirates and other big airlines in any region.
The Business Models of the Middle Eastern Three, particularly EK and EY is completely different to conventional airlines such as the American Big Three, BA, AF/KL as EK, EY and QR have fairly well coverage around the globe targeting global premium travel or less costy journies with better experience(for example making a connection at DXB saves money but might have better experience in comparison to an ultra-long haul flight) ; while conventional airlines usually have their specific market targeted as their country, for example AF targeting France, BA also playing a big role in UK etc. ,thus meaning that the majority of their customers are people of their own country. On the other hand, however, the Middle Eastern Giants have fewer domestic travel demand, and they have always been trying to attract passengers of these conventional airlines to their premium offerings, thus forming direct competition on many of their routes (for example EK is in competition with BA and VS on LHR-DXB), thus making conventional airlines less likely to accept. In addition, QR is not completely offering its most premium services to its partners either as there are many restrictions as regards of using QR facilities for OneWorld members who are not holding the QR Membership although QR certainly benefit a lot from the alliance particularly during the COVID. However, things are really changing these days as these airlines are shifting from only Connection to encouraging more domestic demands, particularly for EK as Dubai has established itself as a popular destination for both tourists and businesses, but still with their existing network they seek for better connectivity from hubs they are flying to to smaller destinations, which explains why Etihad and Emirates have these codeshare partnerships with other airlines as well. Etihad is making an interesting move as it is codesharing with big airlines such as AF and MU, don't know what they will do next but Emirates will probably still stay neutral.
Emirates I think will be fine without one, but I think Etihad is going to have to join one. They simply do not have the route network to stay independent, and they have no codeshare agreements in the HIGHLY lucrative North American market.
They don’t want alliance systems because codeshares help them in even domestic passengers and by the way alliance may push them from one of their codeshares like Qantas, Japan airlines. They want to sign contracts with airlines like United, Indigo which serve wide range of domestic directly transfer passengers to the emirates served destination which’re like Seattle even want Indian codeshares because India to us and European demand is very high with many destinations being unserved like Hyderabad -Dallas.
United and Emirate share hubs and spokes model plus Emirate’s President and CEO Sur Tim Clark said it was tempting to join The Star Alliance through United Airline and Air Canada which are both part of the same Alliance group! 😂
@@planespottingwithabdullah All the Russian civil carriers were suspended from any deals or alliances they might have with non Russian allied nations as part of sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine. That includes S7 and Aeroflot being suspended from oneworld and Skyteam.
I can't see how the region can support three massive airlines offering similar business models. I predict Emirates and Qatar will stick around in the long run.
People have said this for ages, yet they've all only increased their offerings on key routes. The numbers & their profits don't lie, the demand is there. Will be interesting to see how things change when Riyadh air comes along/Indian airlines improve their quality. But generally speaking, the model works well & is often at capacity. The likes of Ethiad/Gult Air are however small players. It's mainly Emirates/Qatar doing the heavy lifting. The others have been cautious in their growth plans
Competitors in the same alliance? That only makes sense if they can align their interests on "something", despite the competition. And so far there's none?
Qatar is in Oneworld. Saudia is much-improved and in Skyteam. Riyadh Air is on the horizon. Emirates is the proverbial 300 pound canary (i.e. it craps on whatever it wants to). Events are going to force Etihad into Star Alliance.
Etihad needs to join an alliance to penetrate the US market and compete with Emirates. My advice is to partner with Southwest Airlines. They can just funnel US passengers from Southwest to a flight to Abu Dhabi.
Both business concepts are vastly different in their targeted markets. Passenger expectations for one airline should meet the passenger expectations for the other as much as possible. For example, combining a flag carrier with a budget airline will lead to bad passenger reviews and passengers moving elsewhere.
Southwest and Etihad ?!?! HAHAH GOOD ONE 😂😂😂 Etihad will never go with an LCC, and also Southwest doesn't offer codeshares and any flights to relevant airports. Why do ignorant people even bother to talk ???? Seriously fr.
I think that if Etihad and Emirates were to join either three of the alliances, and considering that Qatar Airways is already part of Oneworld, I'd think that Star Alliance would suit Etihad, and Skyteam for Emirates.
It is not only about code sharing flights, but sharing lounges for business class passengers. You didn't analyse that benefit of alliances for these two airlines.
It's not really a benefit for these airlines, all it does encourage other airlines passengers to use these often luxury & well run lounges, which prices out their own customers. Likes of Emirates have already built their own lougnes on key routes/alreadly have agreements in place. So really, they have little to gain & a lot to lose re this.
Good point. In business, upselling to customers can double your profit when you make a sale. Airport lounges are a critical part of the upsell that’s the difference between a $400 and $4000 ticket.
When you think about what Emirates brand is about, it’s no surprise that they keep the major alliances at arms length. Emirates brand is about delivering a high-end luxury experience to its customers. European Airlines understand this because they have to compete with trains.
But Airlines in the United States don’t so the quality and experience is terrible in America, from lounge to seat. This is something even American travel TH-camrs have no problem saying in their videos.
Knowing this, why would these flagship Middle Eastern carriers expose themselves to these alliances, which are mainly the brainchild of the big three airlines? The only reason Emirates is playing ball with United Airlines is because they have recently upgraded their lounge access at their Newark Hub recently and just opened a flashy brand new Terminal that was built and now being managed by Europeans.
There are new plans, just released last week, for a new international Terminal to replace the old decrepit Terminal B. Emirates is playing nice with United to get into the new Terminal, which is mostly occupied by star alliance partners.
It's easier for Emirates and Etihad not to join an alliance because their business model relies heavily on the unique products that they offer, especially with premium carriers. It also doesn't hurt that they're entirely state funded and profit is not their main priority.
Thanks for addressing it. The video isn't even addressing the main reasons why, at least so far, they are not going for airline alliances.
The business concept, especially for Emirates, is not to funnel as many passengers through their main hub as fast as possible. It's the opposite, the longer the passengers stay, the more income for the whole country. Including the political influence coming with it.
For a global company having a central location for meetings is very beneficial. If you can treat customers with interesting and comfortable locations, the better. This is one of the main reasons why an even larger airport is to be built, to enhance the experience of the passengers. Turning business passengers into leisure passengers.
And having full control of these operations enables the airline to control the passenger experience far easier than with alliance members who care more about the speed and range of the connections in the first place, a clear conflict of interest.
As such, individual agreements provide far more leverage than the membership in an alliance.
@@jantjarks7946 thank you for complimenting one of my allies!airbus fans are now starting to run around crazy
🤦
@@jantjarks7946 what does that emoji mean actually?
@@planespottingwithabdullah Are you captain Picard's bane?
As a Star Alliance flier my dream would be Emirates joining Star Alliance, but i guess that remains a dream for now
came here to say this
emirates is emirates now and will be emirates if it joins the alliance. Why not just get emirates tickets?
Interesting video. Thanks SF team 👏
Since they fly to a lot of destinations and offer quality service, why would they want to release thei indepence?
Alliance are alliance but not single entity that profit are earned individually. Which you overlooked the possibility of hostilities within alliances. Which In case if they fight for the same direction of Market share they might turn hostile with each other. For example, Korean air and Delta have once been turn hostile over terms of codeshare on their transpacific flights even though they found Sky team that at once Korean Air switched to codeshare with American Airlines. But for the middle east 3, the problem can be even worse given that they can engage in rivalry with any airlines on one of some of their segments globally. And they have been somewhat more ambitious than other airlines on earth. Qatar airways for example, it have once turn hostile with American Airlines over Indian-American traffic(resolved) and hostile with Qantas for Kangaroo routes(not resolved). That makes almost alliance pay my scrutiny offer whether to let a Middle Eastern carrier(especially those who have oil) to join their alliance or the Middle Eastern carrier are trying to take advantage of them.
The main reason Qatar is hostile with Qantas is over Qantas getting Emirates as a joint venture partner *while* Qatar was in the process of joining oneworld.
I think it makes perfect sense for Emirates but I think being in an alliance would boost Etihad’s appeal as they seem to underperform in market share for such a great airline.
Etihad and Emirates are more interested in smaller regional airlines.
For example, Emirates is interested in picking up a passenger from Mumbai, letting the passenger move around the Dubai airport for 4-5 hours, and then dropping off the passenger to Atlanta/Seattle/LAX/NYC/Denver etc. It is not interested in picking up the passenger from Aurangabad to dropping off the pax in Mumbai for the journey forward.
Other than Qantas in Australia, which helps Etihad and Emirates drop off Australia and NZ bound passengers to a few large airports, not many deals exist between Etihad/Emirates and other big airlines in any region.
That you're aware of.. there's dozens of codeshares with many different global airlines, including United, TAP, & Icelandair. Not just Australian.
The Business Models of the Middle Eastern Three, particularly EK and EY is completely different to conventional airlines such as the American Big Three, BA, AF/KL as EK, EY and QR have fairly well coverage around the globe targeting global premium travel or less costy journies with better experience(for example making a connection at DXB saves money but might have better experience in comparison to an ultra-long haul flight) ; while conventional airlines usually have their specific market targeted as their country, for example AF targeting France, BA also playing a big role in UK etc. ,thus meaning that the majority of their customers are people of their own country. On the other hand, however, the Middle Eastern Giants have fewer domestic travel demand, and they have always been trying to attract passengers of these conventional airlines to their premium offerings, thus forming direct competition on many of their routes (for example EK is in competition with BA and VS on LHR-DXB), thus making conventional airlines less likely to accept. In addition, QR is not completely offering its most premium services to its partners either as there are many restrictions as regards of using QR facilities for OneWorld members who are not holding the QR Membership although QR certainly benefit a lot from the alliance particularly during the COVID.
However, things are really changing these days as these airlines are shifting from only Connection to encouraging more domestic demands, particularly for EK as Dubai has established itself as a popular destination for both tourists and businesses, but still with their existing network they seek for better connectivity from hubs they are flying to to smaller destinations, which explains why Etihad and Emirates have these codeshare partnerships with other airlines as well.
Etihad is making an interesting move as it is codesharing with big airlines such as AF and MU, don't know what they will do next but Emirates will probably still stay neutral.
Emirates I think will be fine without one, but I think Etihad is going to have to join one. They simply do not have the route network to stay independent, and they have no codeshare agreements in the HIGHLY lucrative North American market.
American, JetBlue, & Air Canada are all major North American carriers that Etihad codeshares with.
I haven't noticed them flying the routes I need.
They have partnerships with other airlines and other loyalty programmes, so there's no need to join any alliance. 🤷🏻♂️
They don’t want alliance systems because codeshares help them in even domestic passengers and by the way alliance may push them from one of their codeshares like Qantas, Japan airlines. They want to sign contracts with airlines like United, Indigo which serve wide range of domestic directly transfer passengers to the emirates served destination which’re like Seattle even want Indian codeshares because India to us and European demand is very high with many destinations being unserved like Hyderabad -Dallas.
United and Emirate share hubs and spokes model plus Emirate’s President and CEO Sur Tim Clark said it was tempting to join The Star Alliance through United Airline and Air Canada which are both part of the same Alliance group! 😂
Daniel 😅
Another great presentation but, please pronounce the H in Etihad…….Eti-Had
Maybe Gulf Air to Star Alliance, for personal reasons..
They might join in the future.
Anyway Etihad has a partnership with American Airline where you can book by points or cash!
Why did Qatar and Turkish join alliances then?
I was hoping Rex would join Star Alliance, but not to be.
Like Emirates dxb aviation
A tiny clip of Skyteam flying Aeroflot as a sub-livery. How does Aeroflot benefit from Skyteam now?
didnt they get suspended?that is confusing,that civilian service has nothing to do with the war
They are temporarily suspended.
@@planespottingwithabdullah Aeroflot is majority state owned
@@moekitsune but its for civilans.
@@planespottingwithabdullah All the Russian civil carriers were suspended from any deals or alliances they might have with non Russian allied nations as part of sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine. That includes S7 and Aeroflot being suspended from oneworld and Skyteam.
You might also have to consider that those alliances do not want emirates or etihad to join them.
I can't see how the region can support three massive airlines offering similar business models. I predict Emirates and Qatar will stick around in the long run.
Etihad isn't massive. And you're wrong, they will all stick around.
People have said this for ages, yet they've all only increased their offerings on key routes. The numbers & their profits don't lie, the demand is there. Will be interesting to see how things change when Riyadh air comes along/Indian airlines improve their quality. But generally speaking, the model works well & is often at capacity. The likes of Ethiad/Gult Air are however small players. It's mainly Emirates/Qatar doing the heavy lifting. The others have been cautious in their growth plans
Why no alliance between Emirates, Qatar, etihad, and gulf air
Competitors in the same alliance? That only makes sense if they can align their interests on "something", despite the competition. And so far there's none?
That makes absolutely no sense, and you forgot Oman Air !!!
Foolish question.
Qatar is in Oneworld. Saudia is much-improved and in Skyteam. Riyadh Air is on the horizon. Emirates is the proverbial 300 pound canary (i.e. it craps on whatever it wants to).
Events are going to force Etihad into Star Alliance.
all i care about is if it is a boeing !which is why i do not fly easyjet.....
Etihad will never be in Star.
@@milantehrandubai - Why not?
TK would probably veto.
Etihad hasn't been doing too well since their investment in other airlines idea failed. There has been talk of Etihad being merged with Emirates.
Etihad needs to join an alliance to penetrate the US market and compete with Emirates. My advice is to partner with Southwest Airlines. They can just funnel US passengers from Southwest to a flight to Abu Dhabi.
Why would ME3 passengers want to connect to a LCC? headdesk
@@Archduke17 Because Southwest is ditching the LCC business model as we speak
Both business concepts are vastly different in their targeted markets.
Passenger expectations for one airline should meet the passenger expectations for the other as much as possible.
For example, combining a flag carrier with a budget airline will lead to bad passenger reviews and passengers moving elsewhere.
Southwest and Etihad ?!?! HAHAH GOOD ONE 😂😂😂 Etihad will never go with an LCC, and also Southwest doesn't offer codeshares and any flights to relevant airports. Why do ignorant people even bother to talk ???? Seriously fr.
@@Trainmaster909No they're not
I think that if Etihad and Emirates were to join either three of the alliances, and considering that Qatar Airways is already part of Oneworld, I'd think that Star Alliance would suit Etihad, and Skyteam for Emirates.
Nope. It's the other way round. Etihad in Skyteam and Emirates in Star Alliance !!!
Emirates world definitely join Star Alliance, not sky team
Pls pin me I have been watching your vids for 1 year
why do you care?
Just one year? 6 years here 😉
Low IQ viewer detected
Only one year ? Pah!
Pin to scam. 😂