@@moneyx3232Classy is subjective; regardless, I think you should travel to South America or Europe to gain a better appreciation for the role of the previous Defender in the LR lineup. They were agricultural implements by most practical applications.
This may look like an original Defender but it’s clearly much better made. The vastly improved driving position alone speaks volumes of how much thought went into the design. Love that they stuck to solid axles front and rear, it shows how committed they are to this being first and foremost an off road vehicle.
Great presentation of the Grenadier and it’s capabilities… keep up the good work! As a Grenadier owner, I’ve pointed more people to your video to help give them a general overview of what the vehicle is capable of and how it functions. There are plenty of auto review channels out there creating a lot of drama & opinions around the Grenadier. Your review addresses most of the pros and cons in a straightforward manner which should should help potential buyers make an informed decision.
This has to be one of the best starts to any car company. It does make me wonder though how they'll keep growing or developing new models if the whole concept of the brand came from bringing back one model of car. I also hope they'll keep expanding their dealership network. Where I live in the Midwest, the closest one is 4 hours away.
It is off to a good start in terms of buyer acceptance apart from the lump in the floor in right had drive models that isnt there in lhd models, the steering and rear camera quality. Some moan about the fuel tank being a bit low and the front steering damper too but a modest lift and 33'' iyres seems to sort that out. Reliablity and faults dont seem to bad either for a new model from a new company but support in remote places is far from proven. Would be good to see some more models from them. Id like to see a van body put on this platform. capable factory 4x4 vans are hard to come by and have lots of use cases like mining worker transport, outback ambulances, campervans etc. I think a lot more interior storage spaces woudnt hurth either, but I love how strong it is made and its great blend of purposeful of old and new tech, sensible features like the battery and fuses under the rear seat etc.. Hopefully future models with address some of the issues. Ditto the turning circle too.
the solid live front axle is the only reason it has recirculating (not reciprocating) ball steering. After driving it for a few days you don't even notice the steering. I can drive down the highway at full speed limit with hands of the wheel no wander and no problem. Or at least I could if that was legal to do.
One of the great things about Ineos and the Grenadier they offer is that the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster specs are literally just pre-specced version of stripped down base model so it's easier for those who want to go off-road to just pick the trialmaster without having to individually tick boxes to pick out the off-road specific options. That being said, the best part is that none of the options are locked behind the Fieldmaster or Trialmaster specs, you can choose the Fieldmaster and option in every single bit of kit that comes with the Trialmaster and vice versa, so you can basically get the best of both worlds in one if you want. It's completely up to the buyer. (This is only possible if you spec a new vehicle to order online or through the dealerships though, but it's pretty awesome that you can mix the Fieldmaster and trialmaster together if you want to and can afford to)
Funny you mention people running 35's in Iceland. I was just there, and I have to tell you, I saw more Land Cruisers than I've ever seen in my life. It was like a Land Cruiser convention. There were some with body cuts running what were probably 35's, and some that were running some really comically large tires, definitely bigger than 35s. Also saw some truly massive overland rigs that looked ex-military. The kind of stuff that had feet of ground clearance and had trouble doing 60km/h on the highway.
I've heard turning radius is deliberately limited to increase the reliability of front drivetrain component's. And that it can be adjusted easily but probably voids the warranty.
I hadn't heard of this car until last weekend. But I had literally been describing this exact sort of project to people as what I'd do if I won the lottery. I wouldn't buy a car--I'd design and build one. This is very impressive.
My Grenny easily kept up with my friend’s $200,000 fully built truck during a week of exploring the Eastern Sierra. I am running 35” tires which nets as much actually clearance as his 37” tires. Sure the truck was $80k but frankly it is worth it. Go price out your other triple locked trucks…
Ranger raptor, and I think the Rubicons are like 50 along with the canyon at4x, and that's cheaper brother the Colorado ZR2 being high 40s. Think the broncos start high 40s low 50s for twin locked. Tradesman power wagon is 60, and I believe the the Chevy 1500 ZR2 is also twin locked and in the 50s... This thing is quite poorly priced, honestly
Pretty cool vehicle for big off road enthusiast as You are. Great that it has solid axles back and rear, all the locks and low gear of course. Great review as always. Greetings
I can understand your issue with the steering not returning to center, but I'm not sure the recirculating ball steering box is the cause. For example, my 1989 Dodge Raider (Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero) has a recirculating ball steering box and returns to center nicely. On the other hand, my 2003 Mercedes ML 500 has rack and pinion steering and driving around town it has to be cranked back to center after basically every turn.
Yeah there seems to be quite more to it, same with people defending it with argument it's solid front axle. But I've seen clapped out Patrol GU with 4" lift, 37" with better steering. Wranglers are nothing like this either. It's just weird design choice.
It’s the steering damper that inhibits the steering from centring. I stripped the thread on the steering damper and had to remove it to drive home and the steering centred itself. It also made the steering feel lighter over the 700km drive home.
If you turn steering, all 3.85 turns to the pegs, and gun it a bit with confidence, it will tighten up that 13.5m turning radius a bit. You were apparently starting to turn too late much of the time. It is a bit different than.many vehicles. Thanks for a great video with the Grennie in her natural habitat and articulation of those solid axles. What tire pressure were you running?
@@drivingsports from experience on my first 2k miles, 38 psi on KO2s works great. Door says 49 psi but that is for max load. Over inflating will increase wander on road. Cheers!
You have a few mistakes. It does not deactivate the rear view camera in Offroad mode, it’s there, just go to first screen and press RVC in top left corner of screen. The load bearing fender plates are aluminum, not steel.
Definitely had snap back in a modern 4WD. I’m not a hard core rock crawler by any means, and had only a lightly modified Ford with electronic steering. Navigating a moderate rock step the front wheel slipped into a crack and the steering took probably 3 full turns in an instant. If thumbs were inside the wheel I have no doubt it would have snapped my wrist. Never become complacent
I agree with your view - I don’t think Ineos is going to EVER go IFS and rack and pinion to tighten the turn radius. It would absolutely KILL the robust, bulletproof design brief for the Grenadier. It is possible they will come up with a soccer mom model, but it would probably just be a totally different model. The Fusilier, which was cancelled, would have checked some of those boxes. But the Grenadier needs the massive axles, tie rods, etc to live up to its “built on purpose” design brief as the reliable and robust adventure vehicle it is.
I love the traditional design elements of the Grenadier. Simple is often better! I like the BMW I-6 but imagine how this rig would be with GM's 3.0 I-6 Duramax Diesel!
265/70r17 is slightly more than 31", not less. It's exactly 1" less than LC 250 that you have, which comes with 265/70r18. Exactly 1" difference. So either this is 31.5" and LC250 32.5", but definitely not 31 vs 33" ;- ). Artic Trucks in Iceland, are also not 35", but more like 37-42" depending on vehicle :- )
Great production quality on this one, really stepping up your game lately. Be nice to see a bit more color matching with the drone footage, the log footage from your ground cameras is a bit flat, esp the beautiful blue of the ineos
Very nice vehicle. Well thought out. And clearly capable. But I'll keep my Wildtrak. Great vid Ryan, can't wait to see a vehicle go up that super steep part.
Interesting. 🤔 There is a lot to like about this vehicle from a Safari/overland perspective for sure. Even some rock crawling. But that steering is a deal killer for me.
It’s really unnoticeable after a day. I thought it would be a deal breaker for me, but I actually like the steering feel, it’s much more connected to what’s actually going on.
There is nothing wrong with the steering. 2k miles one mine. Some units had caster pulled out of 2 degree spec with flat shipping chains pulled too tight and 38psi not 49 on tires.
Just the latest in a long series of great reviews. My question relates to the BMW inline 6. It's been detuned to 282 HP to increase reliability? Wouldn't it be more reliable to go with a normally aspirated inline or V6? We may be comparing apples to oranges here, but my 3.6 L DOHC VVT Pentastar V6 makes 283 HP using regular gas. No turbo. Everything else on this Trialmaster seems to be built with simplicity and reliability in mind. When you're in the back of beyond, I wonder where you're going to find parts like a replacement turbo for a BMW engine. Just saying.
Emissions + small company. pretty much nowhere outside America is it possible to certify a car with na engine today without paying a small fortune in "tickets" for not meeting emission requirements. the same reason it comes as a hole packags with bmw engine + gearbox with even the shifter cause that's how bmw certfied it. + a turbo has been fitted to pretty evert diesel since the 80s, how should it suddenly be a problem with a b58, my bet you can go on "wish" and order one even if you are that cheap
Maybe I missed it, but have they cleared the ding goimg over the speed limit? It's a beautiful outfit hope to get one soon but hope they fix that turning radius wth.....
Not covered in this video. There’s now an option to turn it off. BUT. It has to be turned off every time you get into the vehicle and it’s two clicks deep.
@@drivingsportsit was always an option to turn it off - I have one of the very early US deliveries. But as you say, have to turn it off every time (unless you don’t - for some reason it’s disabled sometimes, and every time I think I’ve figured out the pattern, it surprises me)
Do you ever air down your tires when going off-road? This is the second video of yours that I watched where at least it didn’t appear that you aired down. It makes a huge difference for grip.
@@drivingsports why don't you air down? It's a part of off-roading and it's better for the trails and you'll teach people who are new to off-roading how to do things the right way.
@@redracerproductions I think it may come down to these being vehicle reviews and not offroading tutorials. This keeps things level for comparisons sake and also can bring the limits down so that differences become more apparent. Also, not completely sure but some manufacturers may not appreciate reviewers changing pressures, and some may even have stipulations in their loan contracts about what is and is not allowed.
Not really anything to speak of - switching to K03’s and now have a “luxe line” called Arcane, but nothing fundamental. We’re all waiting for the SW update to give us a “once-and-done” on the EU alerts.
Many hates KO2. With my experience I prefer KO2 off pavement over tires like Falken WP AT3W, Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac, Toyo OC AT3, Nitto Terra Grappler. I bet new KO3 might be even better.
Does it have manual mode for low range because I thought that was extremely helpful on the Discovery series 2. Anyone that's driven one very serious off-road knows that it's much better to be able to choose like second low or third low as a torque reduction and to not be going so slow in first gear or drive with it actually Switching gears and low range which is kind of obnoxious. Also the reason you have to lock the center before the rear is because if you only lock the rear then you could get wheel spin in the front and it would only sit there and spend one front tire and nothing would happen the rear Locker wouldn't even matter if the transfer case was open and all the power was going up to that front single wheel at that point
@@GrenadierMichael I meant that you can unlock the centre diff on the fly and that unlike in some systems you can use all eight gears in low range which is very useful in sand
@@Pandora882 Sorry. Yes. That's right. Being able to engage the centre diff on the move is good, and being able to use all 8 gears in low range is awesome. In fact I’m off to one of Australia's best beach driving locations (Stockton Beach, NSW) this weekend. 🙂 I’ll be hitting the ESC OFF button as well.
There are many reasons (related to both traction and safety) why the centre diff should be locked as soon as you go off-road. I'm always disappointed when I hear people say they'll lock it if they need to.
@@ElderStatesman-pi3lc not all, their main business is actually car parts suppliers. Magna graz plant still has 4 years of G wagon backlogs, so it's delayed.
i Dont know why, but grenadier told before, that if you turn the offroad mode on, no elektronic wheelbreaking or vectoring is happaning. if you like to try it, keep it out of offroad mode 😅 why stress the system with wheelbreaking, when you have locks? the Ineos makes sense 👍
Speaking of turning radius the Land Rover lr3 and LR4 have insane tight turning it's ridiculous I remember when I first got mine I was doing a U-turn and not only did I make it tighter than a Kia SUV but you could feel the steering wheel literally rotate more than you're used to a vehicle steering wheel rotating until lockout😂😂
The Grenadier is the most significant 4x4 offering in decades. Thank you for the continued attention for this unique truck. Please keep it up and consider ditching that Prado 250 4 Runner wannabe so we can have long term and frequent info on the Grenadier which is far more interesting for the enthusiasts. After all do soccer moms really watch your channel anyway?
Lmfao at "4runner wannabe" comment. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The current Prado was around (in other parts of the world) before the new gen 4runner came along. So, really, who's a wannabe?
It’s a really nice vehicle seems to be well made, but it’s very expensive, and if you option it out it’s a lot more expensive, for example a good off roader would have a swaybar disconnect and more ground clearance, it’s low to the ground and I know folks are lifting these but not by much, the winch that you can get is very expensive and it comes with about 40 feet of line that’s actually usable which is not enough and the speed limit warning is so annoying, also the vehicle would be so much more enjoyable if they could make the steering better and give it more power it’s a heavy vehicle more horsepower would make it a lot more fun to drive I hope they can make improvements on the new year model but you can purchase a jeep or a Ford bronco for a lot less money and out-of-the-box have something extremely capable.
It’s a lock between the front and rear. Front diff lock controls left and right on front, and rear controls left and right on rear. Sequence is center, rear, front - and you disable in reverse order.
They made the dash and steering like that on purpose. Specially for off-road use. That's what the vehicle was engineered for. Next thing people would start telling Ineos to put air suspension and IFS and suddenly it becomes the same as every other 4x4 out there. Let the grenadier be different.
@@floofy117 A bit of a cop out making excuses for poor design. I love the Grenadier but also wish it had better steering and a "proper" dash. My Rubicon has full lockers from factory, solid axles front and rear, but it also has a tighter turning circle and steering that self centers. As well as a "proper" dash. So there is no excuse in saying the Grenadier is like this because it is specifically for off-road use. I'm not bashing the Grenadier because I want one - in Magic Mushroom! - there are just a few things I would have liked to be done differently.
@husshardan3511 saying it's designed that wau isn't an excuse. And just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's a flaw. Having spoken to multiple owners and having driven it myself for some time, i have yet to meet an actual owner who complains about the dash. Everyone just gets used to it and it comes as natural as shifting your eyes to look at the rear view mirror. I've noticed it's really almost exclusively people who don't have one yet or have only had a brief encounter with it that would have any complaints and that's just due to the habit of how you operate in your own current vehicles. If they change it to match other cars then good for you i guess but otherwise it's not that big of a deal. The turning circle is pretty atrocious though i agree with you there, they could definitely work on that urgently.
@jaekimchi look man, just because you're used to something being done one way doesn't mean that thing can't be done in other ways. If you can't adapt to something new then that's a personal issue. You don't have to buy the vehicle after all, there's obviously plenty of people who are buying it that are fine with the dash layout so you do you.
sure the turning radius is bad but during your "honest talk" you didn't even start turning when you should have. you should have someone who does actual 4x4ing and rock crawling to test cars for your show. and you can deal with the "infotainment" systems.
Even if it wasn't for the overall price/performance ratio being off on this one, the instrument cluster being that tiny* and in the center is just a dealbreaker for me. This isn't an original Mini, I don't want to take my eyes off the road to look at the center dash of the car. *compared to other screen-based instrument-cluster-cum-infotainment systems.
Definitely valid for on-road usage where the driver has to be constantly aware for traffic and obstacles. This vehicle was primarily engineered for agricultural and off-road journeys though where you don't need to constantly watch your speed. Hope that explains why it's made that way. I do hope they put it back in front of the driver though, I'm sure there's ways of putting it there in a small form factor that doesn't impede on visibility. Like a small LED screen.
@@floofy117 In majority of the world, unless you live Colorado or buy this as farm truck, you have to spend thousands of kms on tarmac including twisty mountain passes and highways where both the steering and center dash will become issue. If it was purely off-roader okey, but it's way more like robust overbuilt overlander. Some design choices just don't square up with the rest.
I’ve owned one for 6 months and this just isn’t an issue. Looking at the center console to check speed is no different than looking at your mirrors. In fact I’ve completely forgotten that I even have to look in a different location than any of my other cars. After a few days of driving it, you won’t notice it again.
@user-yl9vs9eh1w well the guy who started the company was an overlanding enthusiast so that should answer that for you. The reason he wanted to get the rights to continue building defenders was to travel in the bush not on tarmac. And he did a long distance trip with a convoy of Grenadiers through the Gobi desert already. The turning circle of this vehicle alone will tell you that it's not meant for city usage. There's not much we can do about it but hope they make a few tweaks for the mid-cycle refresh or for the next gen. And my guess is the most Ineos would be willing to change is maybe just the dash. And that's a big maybe. Though I'm sure they would have seen all the feedback about it by now
The only thing "British" about this vehicle is the owner of INEOS, Sir Jim Ratcliffe who I believe no longer lives there but instead resides in Monaco. The Grenadier was dreamed up in a Pub called "The Grenadier" near Knightsbridge in London (a tiny but quaint Pub, I had a few pints there), so does that make it British? It was designed and engineered by Magna-Steyr of Austria (same guys who do Mercedes G-Wagen), and takes lots of cues from Old LR Defender. It is built in an ex-Mercedes factory in Hambach in France (near the border hence the German name). Its drivetrain is German being BMW and ZF. Its front and rear axle's are Italian, from Carraro who build tractor components. I've heard the ladder frame chassis and body will also be coming from a sub-assembly plant in Portugal. So you be the judge if it is indeed a "British" vehicle.
It's designed in UK, Magna is Canadian actually. Magna Steyr is their Austrian branch. Magna is just handling the manufacturing design not the car design. Made in Hambach because that's the only available plant that can manufacture Grenadier swiftly. magna Steyr Graz plant itself has 4 years of backlog for G class. Parts are coming from all over the world, just like Toyota using eibach parts from germany without branding it in their GR series.
@ Really? What design house in the UK was responsible for the Ineos Grenadier? Don’t say the paper napkin used at the Grenadier Pub where Jim Ratcliffe scribbled down his idea. Magna-Steyr is a subsidiary of Magna of Canada, true but Steyr-Daimler-Puch of Graz Austria was a fully operational engineering company when Magna bought it and changed the name. It was not established by Magna.
@johncanalese588 ineos automotive. It's their own design engineering team. Even their office in Böblingen is filled with british engineer. One of the lead engineers is a former aston martin design engineer.
@@saltymonke3682 What, You say Ineos Automotive have a design house in the Town of Böblingen, Germany? The registered headquarters of Ineos Automotive is London, England (because that’s where parent company Ineos is registered), but surely that is only for company administration purposes. Nowhere, can I find in written or verbal form that Ineos Automotive employees have directly designed this vehicle!
Funny you think as British vehicles as quirky, I have the same impression of American vehicles. Like muscle cars, it's like a super-sedan...weird. And being able to get no horsepower out of a huge engine ..that's some quirky engineering right there.
PLEASE get some training on how to operate an offroad truck with locking front and rear axles, please. You're making some very common mistakes that make the work far more difficult. I can recommend a few courses if you'd like. We all need training. For example, I checked in sixteen different timestamps and, although you indicate you keep your thumbs outside the wheel, not once did that appear to be the case in these timestamps when under load and/or significant wheel articulation.
Maybe some more knowledgeable people can help me out....he wishes there was wheel-braking to help skid-turn. I've seen it on tractors but a quick Google search isn't finding it on any production cars. Is that really something that's been sold?
I’m so happy a company like Ineos exists. I wish they were more affordable. But then again, everything could stand to be more affordable
Ineos is based on old Land Rover defender which is technically a luxury car…. You can’t expect it to have the same price tag as a Bronco😂
@@moneyx3232The old LR Defender was far from being a luxury vehicle….
@@Gnargoyle811 It's more classy and expensive than blue collar cars like Bronco and Jeep....
repeal the chicken tax.
@@moneyx3232Classy is subjective; regardless, I think you should travel to South America or Europe to gain a better appreciation for the role of the previous Defender in the LR lineup. They were agricultural implements by most practical applications.
Ryan, At first I thought the Ineos was an expensive, imported 4X4 but now I realize it is a discount alternative to top spec Wranglers and Broncos. 🤣
This may look like an original Defender but it’s clearly much better made. The vastly improved driving position alone speaks volumes of how much thought went into the design.
Love that they stuck to solid axles front and rear, it shows how committed they are to this being first and foremost an off road vehicle.
They completely copied the defender driving position.
But it doesn’t the the v8 supercharged nor a moon roof or electrical suspension air like the defender. Is it also really better made?
the camera quality and editing looked better then normal
We had our Detroit crew in for a week of filming. So we have extra angles to work with on this one.
Great presentation of the Grenadier and it’s capabilities… keep up the good work! As a Grenadier owner, I’ve pointed more people to your video to help give them a general overview of what the vehicle is capable of and how it functions. There are plenty of auto review channels out there creating a lot of drama & opinions around the Grenadier. Your review addresses most of the pros and cons in a straightforward manner which should should help potential buyers make an informed decision.
This has to be one of the best starts to any car company. It does make me wonder though how they'll keep growing or developing new models if the whole concept of the brand came from bringing back one model of car. I also hope they'll keep expanding their dealership network. Where I live in the Midwest, the closest one is 4 hours away.
It is off to a good start in terms of buyer acceptance apart from the lump in the floor in right had drive models that isnt there in lhd models, the steering and rear camera quality. Some moan about the fuel tank being a bit low and the front steering damper too but a modest lift and 33'' iyres seems to sort that out.
Reliablity and faults dont seem to bad either for a new model from a new company but support in remote places is far from proven.
Would be good to see some more models from them. Id like to see a van body put on this platform. capable factory 4x4 vans are hard to come by and have lots of use cases like mining worker transport, outback ambulances, campervans etc. I think a lot more interior storage spaces woudnt hurth either, but I love how strong it is made and its great blend of purposeful of old and new tech, sensible features like the battery and fuses under the rear seat etc.. Hopefully future models with address some of the issues. Ditto the turning circle too.
I wish you could get access to Suzuki Jimny for your off-road course. That would be a real billy goat run.
the solid live front axle is the only reason it has recirculating (not reciprocating) ball steering. After driving it for a few days you don't even notice the steering. I can drive down the highway at full speed limit with hands of the wheel no wander and no problem. Or at least I could if that was legal to do.
I was literally just driving around yesterday thinking about how it's been a while since you've used the mountain test course! niiiiice
That Trialmaster name is hard not to mess up... ;-)
One of the great things about Ineos and the Grenadier they offer is that the Fieldmaster and Trialmaster specs are literally just pre-specced version of stripped down base model so it's easier for those who want to go off-road to just pick the trialmaster without having to individually tick boxes to pick out the off-road specific options. That being said, the best part is that none of the options are locked behind the Fieldmaster or Trialmaster specs, you can choose the Fieldmaster and option in every single bit of kit that comes with the Trialmaster and vice versa, so you can basically get the best of both worlds in one if you want. It's completely up to the buyer. (This is only possible if you spec a new vehicle to order online or through the dealerships though, but it's pretty awesome that you can mix the Fieldmaster and trialmaster together if you want to and can afford to)
Funny you mention people running 35's in Iceland. I was just there, and I have to tell you, I saw more Land Cruisers than I've ever seen in my life. It was like a Land Cruiser convention. There were some with body cuts running what were probably 35's, and some that were running some really comically large tires, definitely bigger than 35s. Also saw some truly massive overland rigs that looked ex-military. The kind of stuff that had feet of ground clearance and had trouble doing 60km/h on the highway.
I've heard turning radius is deliberately limited to increase the reliability of front drivetrain component's. And that it can be adjusted easily but probably voids the warranty.
I can see that. It certainly goes with the mission.
You can remove the limiting nut on the stop and improve the turn radius by around 6 feet.
gorgeous vehicle + amazing trail = great test drive on the Driving Sports TV
I hadn't heard of this car until last weekend. But I had literally been describing this exact sort of project to people as what I'd do if I won the lottery. I wouldn't buy a car--I'd design and build one. This is very impressive.
Really capable vehicle. And looks great, old school!
Love the video! I have a Fieldmaster that has all the "trimings" Love the hell out of it off road!
My Grenny easily kept up with my friend’s $200,000 fully built truck during a week of exploring the Eastern Sierra. I am running 35” tires which nets as much actually clearance as his 37” tires. Sure the truck was $80k but frankly it is worth it. Go price out your other triple locked trucks…
Ranger raptor, and I think the Rubicons are like 50 along with the canyon at4x, and that's cheaper brother the Colorado ZR2 being high 40s. Think the broncos start high 40s low 50s for twin locked. Tradesman power wagon is 60, and I believe the the Chevy 1500 ZR2 is also twin locked and in the 50s... This thing is quite poorly priced, honestly
$200,000 eh?
Pretty cool vehicle for big off road enthusiast as You are. Great that it has solid axles back and rear, all the locks and low gear of course. Great review as always. Greetings
I can understand your issue with the steering not returning to center, but I'm not sure the recirculating ball steering box is the cause. For example, my 1989 Dodge Raider (Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero) has a recirculating ball steering box and returns to center nicely. On the other hand, my 2003 Mercedes ML 500 has rack and pinion steering and driving around town it has to be cranked back to center after basically every turn.
Yeah there seems to be quite more to it, same with people defending it with argument it's solid front axle. But I've seen clapped out Patrol GU with 4" lift, 37" with better steering. Wranglers are nothing like this either. It's just weird design choice.
Not all worm gears are created equal. The Grenadier intentionally limits extreme postures in favor of reliability. Hence the lack of turning radius.
It’s the steering damper that inhibits the steering from centring. I stripped the thread on the steering damper and had to remove it to drive home and the steering centred itself. It also made the steering feel lighter over the 700km drive home.
Thank you for bringing vehicles and/or liveries to us that we don’t see elsewhere.
Liveries.
Seriously impressive. Thanks for the video, nice work.
weird this fully optioned example did not come with the factory rock rails. Love this SUV.
Listen to that B58🫶🏻 Mark!
I love my trial master it is just a tank on the trails air-ed down
If you turn steering, all 3.85 turns to the pegs, and gun it a bit with confidence, it will tighten up that 13.5m turning radius a bit. You were apparently starting to turn too late much of the time. It is a bit different than.many vehicles. Thanks for a great video with the Grennie in her natural habitat and articulation of those solid axles. What tire pressure were you running?
We were running stock pressure all around. We don’t usually air down for our own course. And when we do, we’ll show you on camera.
@@drivingsports from experience on my first 2k miles, 38 psi on KO2s works great. Door says 49 psi but that is for max load. Over inflating will increase wander on road.
Cheers!
You have a few mistakes. It does not deactivate the rear view camera in Offroad mode, it’s there, just go to first screen and press RVC in top left corner of screen. The load bearing fender plates are aluminum, not steel.
Definitely had snap back in a modern 4WD. I’m not a hard core rock crawler by any means, and had only a lightly modified Ford with electronic steering. Navigating a moderate rock step the front wheel slipped into a crack and the steering took probably 3 full turns in an instant. If thumbs were inside the wheel I have no doubt it would have snapped my wrist. Never become complacent
I agree with your view - I don’t think Ineos is going to EVER go IFS and rack and pinion to tighten the turn radius. It would absolutely KILL the robust, bulletproof design brief for the Grenadier. It is possible they will come up with a soccer mom model, but it would probably just be a totally different model. The Fusilier, which was cancelled, would have checked some of those boxes. But the Grenadier needs the massive axles, tie rods, etc to live up to its “built on purpose” design brief as the reliable and robust adventure vehicle it is.
Magna Steyr knew what they were doing.
Thanks for this Ryan, such a cool vehicle. I wish they were more accessible.
I had no idea this thing was B58 powered, so sick. Its one of my favorite BMW engines of all time.
Well Toyota thought it was up to snuff.
I love the traditional design elements of the Grenadier. Simple is often better! I like the BMW I-6 but imagine how this rig would be with GM's 3.0 I-6 Duramax Diesel!
Everyone else outside NA has the option of the B57 diesel. So unfair.
Shame BMW did not type certify the B57 diesel in the US.
@@BryanPike EPA
This is after the channel's Land Cruiser..............I hope lol. Great channel,great content, keep it up y'all.🤙
Without the slightest hesitation, I would choose the land cruiser. Very nice video, thanks.
265/70r17 is slightly more than 31", not less. It's exactly 1" less than LC 250 that you have, which comes with 265/70r18. Exactly 1" difference. So either this is 31.5" and LC250 32.5", but definitely not 31 vs 33" ;- ). Artic Trucks in Iceland, are also not 35", but more like 37-42" depending on vehicle :- )
Ryan you really need to get your hands on one with the Eibach springs and some 34s.
Locking the diff is explained on the back of the sun visor.
Great production quality on this one, really stepping up your game lately. Be nice to see a bit more color matching with the drone footage, the log footage from your ground cameras is a bit flat, esp the beautiful blue of the ineos
Very nice vehicle. Well thought out. And clearly capable. But I'll keep my Wildtrak. Great vid Ryan, can't wait to see a vehicle go up that super steep part.
Interesting. 🤔 There is a lot to like about this vehicle from a Safari/overland perspective for sure. Even some rock crawling. But that steering is a deal killer for me.
It’s really unnoticeable after a day. I thought it would be a deal breaker for me, but I actually like the steering feel, it’s much more connected to what’s actually going on.
There is nothing wrong with the steering. 2k miles one mine. Some units had caster pulled out of 2 degree spec with flat shipping chains pulled too tight and 38psi not 49 on tires.
I wish the LC250 had a front locker option. If Toyota wants to withhold the 300 from us, give us the Prado with a front locker option at least.
They put on 31s so that it's easier to get tires in Africa and other remote places. Then they chose a BMW engine. Lots of BMWs all over Africa?
Yup. There is even a Grenadier dealer in Nairobi.
The engine can be worked with in a normal autorepair shops since Ineos will give you the repair manual.
@@BryanPikeyea, Ineos tested Grenadier in Africa for 4 years
They manufacture BMWs in South Africa
I like seeing these on the road.
Fyi You said the vehicle is called the trial master but your title says trail master. Great video.
Thanks for catching that. I blame autocorrect.
Just the latest in a long series of great reviews. My question relates to the BMW inline 6. It's been detuned to 282 HP to increase reliability? Wouldn't it be more reliable to go with a normally aspirated inline or V6? We may be comparing apples to oranges here, but my 3.6 L DOHC VVT Pentastar V6 makes 283 HP using regular gas. No turbo. Everything else on this Trialmaster seems to be built with simplicity and reliability in mind. When you're in the back of beyond, I wonder where you're going to find parts like a replacement turbo for a BMW engine. Just saying.
They tested this thing for 4 years in africa
Emissions + small company. pretty much nowhere outside America is it possible to certify a car with na engine today without paying a small fortune in "tickets" for not meeting emission requirements. the same reason it comes as a hole packags with bmw engine + gearbox with even the shifter cause that's how bmw certfied it.
+ a turbo has been fitted to pretty evert diesel since the 80s, how should it suddenly be a problem with a b58, my bet you can go on "wish" and order one even if you are that cheap
Reverse camera IS available in Off-road mode, but you have to select it. Quirky. 🙂
I started liking this car but not sure about the engine.
Right now my Mitsubishi Pajero is still doing fine.
Great video as usual🤝
I have the B57 Diesel version which is much better than the petrol.
This is probably best engine left on USA market. Since V8 engines went cylinder deactivation and wet belt....
Maybe I missed it, but have they cleared the ding goimg over the speed limit? It's a beautiful outfit hope to get one soon but hope they fix that turning radius wth.....
Not covered in this video. There’s now an option to turn it off. BUT. It has to be turned off every time you get into the vehicle and it’s two clicks deep.
@@drivingsportsit was always an option to turn it off - I have one of the very early US deliveries. But as you say, have to turn it off every time (unless you don’t - for some reason it’s disabled sometimes, and every time I think I’ve figured out the pattern, it surprises me)
I don’t know how old your Landcruiser is but when comparing steering you really need to compare solid front axle vehicles, not IFS.
Right?
Do you ever air down your tires when going off-road? This is the second video of yours that I watched where at least it didn’t appear that you aired down. It makes a huge difference for grip.
We generally don’t air down on our own courses. If and when we do air down, we always mention specifics in the video.
@@drivingsports why don't you air down? It's a part of off-roading and it's better for the trails and you'll teach people who are new to off-roading how to do things the right way.
@@redracerproductions I think it may come down to these being vehicle reviews and not offroading tutorials. This keeps things level for comparisons sake and also can bring the limits down so that differences become more apparent. Also, not completely sure but some manufacturers may not appreciate reviewers changing pressures, and some may even have stipulations in their loan contracts about what is and is not allowed.
Great video, and it will be interesting to see if they make any changes for 2025!
Not really anything to speak of - switching to K03’s and now have a “luxe line” called Arcane, but nothing fundamental. We’re all waiting for the SW update to give us a “once-and-done” on the EU alerts.
Many hates KO2. With my experience I prefer KO2 off pavement over tires like Falken WP AT3W, Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac, Toyo OC AT3, Nitto Terra Grappler. I bet new KO3 might be even better.
That Ineos looks fantastic in that color. Bravo to them for their amazing colors. The anti Toyota blobmobile!
Does it have manual mode for low range because I thought that was extremely helpful on the Discovery series 2. Anyone that's driven one very serious off-road knows that it's much better to be able to choose like second low or third low as a torque reduction and to not be going so slow in first gear or drive with it actually Switching gears and low range which is kind of obnoxious. Also the reason you have to lock the center before the rear is because if you only lock the rear then you could get wheel spin in the front and it would only sit there and spend one front tire and nothing would happen the rear Locker wouldn't even matter if the transfer case was open and all the power was going up to that front single wheel at that point
@@ronaldrrootiii6040 Yes. Manual mode is available (in both high and low range). ✅
@@GrenadierMichael And you can switch the diff in on the move and use all 8 gears in low range.
@@Pandora882 Not sure what you mean by that?
@@GrenadierMichael I meant that you can unlock the centre diff on the fly and that unlike in some systems you can use all eight gears in low range which is very useful in sand
@@Pandora882 Sorry. Yes. That's right. Being able to engage the centre diff on the move is good, and being able to use all 8 gears in low range is awesome. In fact I’m off to one of Australia's best beach driving locations (Stockton Beach, NSW) this weekend. 🙂 I’ll be hitting the ESC OFF button as well.
There are many reasons (related to both traction and safety) why the centre diff should be locked as soon as you go off-road. I'm always disappointed when I hear people say they'll lock it if they need to.
and you can do it on the fly...
Did anyone notice the Steyr logo on the aircon vents?
MS did all the engineering on it, although they don’t build it (they were supposed to do the Fusilier, but that project was cancelled)
@@ElderStatesman-pi3lc not all, their main business is actually car parts suppliers. Magna graz plant still has 4 years of G wagon backlogs, so it's delayed.
1:22 I’ve seen people replace them with the gear shifter from the Supra. Looks way better with the overall aesthetic.
The turning radius was bad because you left the rear locker on.
It was on for one spot, but the turning radius is bad in general.
If possible... could you please try the land cruiser 70 2024? thanks~
Unfortunately, we don’t have access to the 70 series here in the US.
i Dont know why, but grenadier told before, that if you turn the offroad mode on, no elektronic wheelbreaking or vectoring is happaning. if you like to try it, keep it out of offroad mode 😅 why stress the system with wheelbreaking, when you have locks? the Ineos makes sense 👍
Speaking of turning radius the Land Rover lr3 and LR4 have insane tight turning it's ridiculous I remember when I first got mine I was doing a U-turn and not only did I make it tighter than a Kia SUV but you could feel the steering wheel literally rotate more than you're used to a vehicle steering wheel rotating until lockout😂😂
I was wondering the same thing! Will Ineos come around and decide a different direction for the steering, no pun intended.
Magna Steyr did this for best off road performance. Full Stop.
The rear camera can be turned on in the offroad menu
The Grenadier is the most significant 4x4 offering in decades. Thank you for the continued attention for this unique truck. Please keep it up and consider ditching that Prado 250 4 Runner wannabe so we can have long term and frequent info on the Grenadier which is far more interesting for the enthusiasts. After all do soccer moms really watch your channel anyway?
Lmfao at "4runner wannabe" comment. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The current Prado was around (in other parts of the world) before the new gen 4runner came along. So, really, who's a wannabe?
Just rolled through my first 2,000 miles on my Grennie. Everything I hoped it would be.
You can tell Ryan likes off roading. Maybe a little 😀
It’s a really nice vehicle seems to be well made, but it’s very expensive, and if you option it out it’s a lot more expensive, for example a good off roader would have a swaybar disconnect and more ground clearance, it’s low to the ground and I know folks are lifting these but not by much, the winch that you can get is very expensive and it comes with about 40 feet of line that’s actually usable which is not enough and the speed limit warning is so annoying, also the vehicle would be so much more enjoyable if they could make the steering better and give it more power it’s a heavy vehicle more horsepower would make it a lot more fun to drive I hope they can make improvements on the new year model but you can purchase a jeep or a Ford bronco for a lot less money and out-of-the-box have something extremely capable.
What doe's the center diff lock is supposed to do
It’s a lock between the front and rear. Front diff lock controls left and right on front, and rear controls left and right on rear. Sequence is center, rear, front - and you disable in reverse order.
@ElderStatesman-pi3lc if you unluck center, it automatically disengaged front and rear.
Great video. Lock the center diff as soon as you get on dirt.
A $97k billy-goat!! A by golly, it looks like one :) :) :)
LFG, Ryan!
I would like to see your Land Cruser go over the same trail
FINALLY!!!!!!!!
If they could refine the design by including a proper dash, fixing the steering centering, and other misc. things. These would really be complete.
They made the dash and steering like that on purpose. Specially for off-road use. That's what the vehicle was engineered for. Next thing people would start telling Ineos to put air suspension and IFS and suddenly it becomes the same as every other 4x4 out there. Let the grenadier be different.
@@floofy117 A bit of a cop out making excuses for poor design. I love the Grenadier but also wish it had better steering and a "proper" dash. My Rubicon has full lockers from factory, solid axles front and rear, but it also has a tighter turning circle and steering that self centers. As well as a "proper" dash.
So there is no excuse in saying the Grenadier is like this because it is specifically for off-road use. I'm not bashing the Grenadier because I want one - in Magic Mushroom! - there are just a few things I would have liked to be done differently.
@husshardan3511 saying it's designed that wau isn't an excuse. And just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it's a flaw. Having spoken to multiple owners and having driven it myself for some time, i have yet to meet an actual owner who complains about the dash. Everyone just gets used to it and it comes as natural as shifting your eyes to look at the rear view mirror. I've noticed it's really almost exclusively people who don't have one yet or have only had a brief encounter with it that would have any complaints and that's just due to the habit of how you operate in your own current vehicles. If they change it to match other cars then good for you i guess but otherwise it's not that big of a deal. The turning circle is pretty atrocious though i agree with you there, they could definitely work on that urgently.
@@floofy117 very much a cop out. Other cars off road capability isn’t hindered by a proper dash. Almost laughable you suggested that
@jaekimchi look man, just because you're used to something being done one way doesn't mean that thing can't be done in other ways. If you can't adapt to something new then that's a personal issue. You don't have to buy the vehicle after all, there's obviously plenty of people who are buying it that are fine with the dash layout so you do you.
sure the turning radius is bad but during your "honest talk" you didn't even start turning when you should have. you should have someone who does actual 4x4ing and rock crawling to test cars for your show. and you can deal with the "infotainment" systems.
Sick car
“Snap back”? Ryan strikes again. I believe the terminology you’re searching for is, “bumpsteer”.
Even if it wasn't for the overall price/performance ratio being off on this one, the instrument cluster being that tiny* and in the center is just a dealbreaker for me. This isn't an original Mini, I don't want to take my eyes off the road to look at the center dash of the car.
*compared to other screen-based instrument-cluster-cum-infotainment systems.
Definitely valid for on-road usage where the driver has to be constantly aware for traffic and obstacles. This vehicle was primarily engineered for agricultural and off-road journeys though where you don't need to constantly watch your speed. Hope that explains why it's made that way. I do hope they put it back in front of the driver though, I'm sure there's ways of putting it there in a small form factor that doesn't impede on visibility. Like a small LED screen.
@@floofy117 In majority of the world, unless you live Colorado or buy this as farm truck, you have to spend thousands of kms on tarmac including twisty mountain passes and highways where both the steering and center dash will become issue.
If it was purely off-roader okey, but it's way more like robust overbuilt overlander. Some design choices just don't square up with the rest.
I’ve owned one for 6 months and this just isn’t an issue.
Looking at the center console to check speed is no different than looking at your mirrors.
In fact I’ve completely forgotten that I even have to look in a different location than any of my other cars.
After a few days of driving it, you won’t notice it again.
@user-yl9vs9eh1w well the guy who started the company was an overlanding enthusiast so that should answer that for you. The reason he wanted to get the rights to continue building defenders was to travel in the bush not on tarmac. And he did a long distance trip with a convoy of Grenadiers through the Gobi desert already. The turning circle of this vehicle alone will tell you that it's not meant for city usage. There's not much we can do about it but hope they make a few tweaks for the mid-cycle refresh or for the next gen. And my guess is the most Ineos would be willing to change is maybe just the dash. And that's a big maybe. Though I'm sure they would have seen all the feedback about it by now
When they fix the steering AND bring the diesel to the USA I’ll be a buyer.
In a word... never gonna happen, thanks for playing. LOL
I wonder if you buy the diesel in the EU, can you then bring it into the US?
Prefer the on-ground footage to the high drone shots--which destroy all sense of steepness/gradient.
It turns like a lorry , so u have to turn the steering a bit different
You should get one
14 mpg.. by the time I reach my mailbox, I need to refuel just to get back to the house..
mine has average of 18.8 on first two thousand miles.
The only thing "British" about this vehicle is the owner of INEOS, Sir Jim Ratcliffe who I believe no longer lives there but instead resides in Monaco. The Grenadier was dreamed up in a Pub called "The Grenadier" near Knightsbridge in London (a tiny but quaint Pub, I had a few pints there), so does that make it British? It was designed and engineered by Magna-Steyr of Austria (same guys who do Mercedes G-Wagen), and takes lots of cues from Old LR Defender. It is built in an ex-Mercedes factory in Hambach in France (near the border hence the German name). Its drivetrain is German being BMW and ZF. Its front and rear axle's are Italian, from Carraro who build tractor components. I've heard the ladder frame chassis and body will also be coming from a sub-assembly plant in Portugal. So you be the judge if it is indeed a "British" vehicle.
It's designed in UK, Magna is Canadian actually. Magna Steyr is their Austrian branch. Magna is just handling the manufacturing design not the car design. Made in Hambach because that's the only available plant that can manufacture Grenadier swiftly. magna Steyr Graz plant itself has 4 years of backlog for G class. Parts are coming from all over the world, just like Toyota using eibach parts from germany without branding it in their GR series.
@ Really? What design house in the UK was responsible for the Ineos Grenadier? Don’t say the paper napkin used at the Grenadier Pub where Jim Ratcliffe scribbled down his idea. Magna-Steyr is a subsidiary of Magna of Canada, true but Steyr-Daimler-Puch of Graz Austria was a fully operational engineering company when Magna bought it and changed the name. It was not established by Magna.
@johncanalese588 ineos automotive. It's their own design engineering team. Even their office in Böblingen is filled with british engineer. One of the lead engineers is a former aston martin design engineer.
@@johncanalese588 doesn't matter, daimler puch is no more. Magna is well and alive
@@saltymonke3682 What, You say Ineos Automotive have a design house in the Town of Böblingen, Germany? The registered headquarters of Ineos Automotive is London, England (because that’s where parent company Ineos is registered), but surely that is only for company administration purposes. Nowhere, can I find in written or verbal form that Ineos Automotive employees have directly designed this vehicle!
Reciprocating recirculating tomato potato. I wish them success. Hopefully there’s a Chevy V8 in the future.
Oh dear, quirks and features!
That dorky BMW shifter is the worse part of the Grenadier.
I believe that shifter is designed by ZF. That shifter seems to follow that transmission around its also in alfaromeo products
The funny thing is the 2020 Supra shifter is a snap in replacement and is super chunky like what should the shifter should have been in the Grennie.
If you had the new Lexus GX550, it would have ground its nose in that ditch @5:55
I kept expecting to see a rhino or giraffe walk by.
Look kind of like a mini H1.
I just hope they don’t start compromising and watering it down as they become successful 😢
I’d take the Landcruiser over the Granadiere anyday, even if I was swanker.
7:28 You are given more information... It's called reading the manual and/or common sense
No vehicle should cost more than $20,000 fully loaded
Funny you think as British vehicles as quirky, I have the same impression of American vehicles. Like muscle cars, it's like a super-sedan...weird. And being able to get no horsepower out of a huge engine ..that's some quirky engineering right there.
PLEASE get some training on how to operate an offroad truck with locking front and rear axles, please. You're making some very common mistakes that make the work far more difficult. I can recommend a few courses if you'd like. We all need training. For example, I checked in sixteen different timestamps and, although you indicate you keep your thumbs outside the wheel, not once did that appear to be the case in these timestamps when under load and/or significant wheel articulation.
Maybe some more knowledgeable people can help me out....he wishes there was wheel-braking to help skid-turn. I've seen it on tractors but a quick Google search isn't finding it on any production cars. Is that really something that's been sold?
Almost every crossover sold for the past 5 years has it. Some better than others.
Watch any of our Subaru Wilderness videos. In most we explain it in detail.
@@drivingsports thanks!
I was disappointed to see that they canceled their REx electric version, but the new Scouts have me excited.
Lol nobody wants ev garbage.
@ well the numbers suggest otherwise.
14 mpg … ouch
My first 2k miles my Grennie has averaged 18.2mpg. If you gun it around town light to light, you might get that.
Offers an optional “wench” 16:10
Winch. Wench. Pheasant. Peasant.
@ lol. Love your channel.
love this truck..cant wait till they come out with a EV version of this is truck..
They are prototyping hydrogen. Their EV project, the Fusilier, was cancelled/ “indefinitely postponed”