I'm sorry but Brendan Venter's argument is completely in bad faith. He starts off by creating his own narrative and then tries to get Goodey to answer purely based on the fact Brendan thinks he's correct. It's not a matter of the players culture, which is second to none, but the back rooms culture. They cheated, suck it up, change what needs changing and move on.
@ 6:25 onwards...Venter saying that they were under the salary cap to start with and ended up over. Well, do the same as every other clubs has to when they breed world class talent...you either pay them or let them go! Same as a real business...if you raise a talented sales person but your business can't afford to pay them, you have to let them go somewhere else that CAN afford them, to continue building their career. BV also seems to get confused over the term fact and conjecture. Fact; something known to exist or to have happened. Conjecture; an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. He admitted @ 10:59 that he didn't have all the facts. Nullifies the rest of the discussion. He then admitted that no books were kept by Nigel @ 12:04. So Nigel was doing stuff off book? Taxable income? Why would Sarries refuse to open their books? If they aren't hiding anything, why not? Do they think that it would open the floodgates to the last 10-15 years worth of accounts that BV mentioned @ 8:28 that they have been overpaying from? Or am I misunderstanding? Welcome to the real world, BV. As Denis Leary once said 'Life sucks, buy a helmet'.
Could have been a far better discussion if Venter listened to Goode. Andy has made great points, but Venter is super on the defensive just making the same points
So Brendan's first argument is "look we used to be allowed to spend lots of money but didn't do great with them....why cant we keep spending silly amounts of money?" Brendan, regardless of whether you succeed or not, spending above the cap is wrong.
BV comment that they are nearly in the cap this year must be BS. Now Billy V is injured...surely that will mean they can now be under the cap? Or is BV outside the cap?
11:30..'Nobody knew, Nobody knew' So nobody at Sarries knew how much they were spending on players salaries. You really expect anyone outside of the club to believe that? Chairman, CEO?, Board of directors?, DoR? Salary Cap manager? Sorry, I, and many many others, do not believe that. And £3million spent on (incorrect) legal advice on an overspend of 'just over' the cap. No sorry, I don't believe that either. And Sarries relegation was caused by London Irish and Leicester being scared of going down. Oh Brendan, #celerydenier
This does raise a separate issue. If a club has a very good academy they may not be able to retain the players they created. Maybe the RFU needs to look at academy credits again. This would prevent a team buying a trophy outright as they would also need a first rate academy over a period of time. I would like to see players stay at one club for their whole career more often and not have circumstances outside of playing dictate where and when they go. Multiple clubs have now said how they have lost out on home grown talent and I’m sure there are many players that have had to leave clubs they didn’t want to.
Saracens going down is going to be a great thing for them. They will get loads of publicity for the currently ignored championship, and then when they come back up the season after they will have everyone’s support as by then they will be the underdogs. I know there are huge financial implications for the team with going down, but aside from that it will do good things for the championship and sareys in my opinion.
Stating that you've nurtured all these young players and made them worth much more is irrelevant. The fact is that Sarries then offered them big new contracts that took them over the salary cap when they should have offered them less or let them go, but they chose to keep them all.
Brendan keeps going on about "this group of players" yes they are a good group of players. But that group of players shouldn't be together because they cheated the salary cap. How did you keep those players together? You over paid them and gave them additional incentive to remain. It's cheating undefendable
@@alphaq1617 perhaps they do need to increase the cap. But the problem is no club can afford it. Saracens as a business is awful. They lost £45m last year. Unless a club has a huge backer pumping in the millions they'll go bust. Let's say it was raised to £10m so that's an extra £3m clubs can spend. They'd not be able to afford it. But they'll have to in order to keep up and remain competitive. Ticket prices may have to increase, a lot of clubs aren't filling out stadiums as it is.
Myke Day I understand that, but salary caps is holding back English talent, some players are leaving for Wales and Ireland to their provinces because their national sides want their eligibility
@@alphaq1617 and our national side has the same rules. If you want to play for England you play in England. If players can make more money by going else where then they'll all just up and leave to France or Japan. This will then destroy the entire English league. As all the quality players will leave. It will also destroy our international game as all our best qualified players will have left. We've kept the rule of play in your country to maintain our domestic league. Without it all our clubs would effectively end.
Tough to debate as no matter how good the culture is/was we will never know if it was the money or the clubs culture that created this crop of great players and the success. If you boil it down saracens just shouldn’t have broken the cap, they have to take their medicine and they will. Interesting they took relegation over opening their books, presumably to avoid publishing player pay as it would create divisions within the club??
Or because they knew they'd be relegated anyway once their cheating was published in black and white for everyone to see. This way bullshitters like Hamilton and Venter will carry on in the media insisting they did nothing wrong
There are lots of great clubs out there with great academy’s. Many struggle to keep all their best players, as Saracens have, as they get enticed by money from other clubs. I find it hard to believe that he can defend this by saying that the structures in the club are what make it great and not the money. Really.... Really... explain that to Exeter and Leinster and ........
Saracens shouldn’t be playing another game this season. Still unfair advantage over other teams and could affect out come of positions. They cheat and shouldn’t be allowed back in
What they are saying is you can break the salary cap, keep the trophies but get relegated next season. Why haven’t they had the trophies taken off them and given to the runners up, yes still not ideal but better than the cheating team keeping them
@@brightside0970 I actually don't think they should be redistributed because who's to say the runners up would've won? E.g. last year Munster may have made the Heineken Cup final instead of Saracens and would've fancied themselves to win. They should definitely be stripped of the trophies just not necessarily given to the runner up (and I say this as a Leinster fan robbed of a fifth Heineken Cup to celebrate)
You understand this more than me. I follow Leicester tigers. Football my main sport. But I just don’t understand why they haven’t been stripped of titles that other teams have kept to the rules...
@@inBODwetrust13 I disagree, I think that all Saracens European trophies should go to Munster regardless of whether they beat us or not. This is coming from an impartial rugby fan here
I don't understand why the guy on the phone keeps using the argument that just because Saracens overpaid for the first 10-15 years of Wrays tenure and it didn't bring about instant success, that it shouldn't count now. What?! Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, regardless of whether you benefit from it or not.
The irony is, thus could be the BEST thing to happen to Saracens. The talk is about how much they are allowed to spend. What about what they can afford? Even with the success they have had and the talent on show, they struggle to fill a 10,000 seat stadium. Hardly surprising that they are running up huge debt that they cannot pay. They've managed to write off, £50 million but that trick wont last forever. They may think they're too big to go the way of London Welsh, but then so did Enron.
I can understand why Saracens haven't opened their books. Anyone who runs a decent sized business knows the prospect of their books audited for 10 years is a horrendous one and very lengthy. This would hang over the club for ages and they'd be held in purgatory for a long time. I can accept that potentially, the club just wanted to accept the decision and move on.
Still in the European cup? Still keeping there titles after cheating throughout? Still keeping there players? Only going down to championship Rfu need a pair of bollocks
If u robbed a bank 15 years ago and failed, you would get trialed...then if u Rob about bank 15 years later and got away and then got caught, you still get trialed...it doesn't matter what the outcome is...you broke the law
Venter and Hamilton arguing from the wrong point of view unfortunately. I have sympathy with Saracens in that they have been victims of their own success but sadly that doesn't excuse them. They are arguing that it has been impossible to live within the cap because of the culture they created. That may be true but the rules have still been broken. They should have tried to change the rules if they felt like this, not secretly broken them.
when running a business, (and in a way the financials of the club are a business), you budget and plan as year in advance. failure to be aware of going over budget is negligence and incompetent. failure to keep hold of this year's in a row is just plain cheating.
Whatever view is taken, it’s a mess and detrimental to Rugby Union as a whole. I played in an era where even at Junior Club Level, high quality players were given “Boot Money”.
A Saracens reject who played for the morrally upright Leicester Tigers back when Tigers were (allegedly) buying players houses and cars to work around the salary cap trying to be all sanctimonious 😀
Logic is they cheated I don't blame the players But the club are the Glasgow Rangers of rugby. Rangers were demoted more than one league. Saracens cheated end off. It's embarrassing, English rugby pride themselves on fairness, Honesty and respect, not buying it They should be dropped out of professional rugby. Now they still have a chance to win the champions cup ????
Do you understand how Europe works versus the Prem? You also can't compare rugby penalties to football - dropping a rugby team down a few leagues is ridiculous. I'm no Saracens fan but half of your points don't make sense.
@@calummoran4626 do you understand you need to do well in your own league initially to qualify for the Euro champions cup? So yes the cheating does affect Europe
Was there a salary cap in the SPL? No. Did Celtic pay Juninho via an EBT? Yes. Did Hearts in the Romanov era? Allegedly. Rangers didn't cheat, it was a loophole that they exploited, any club could do it and many in England did the same. Not the same argument.
Ventor is absolutely right, it`s not only about the money. The coach has a far greater influence than we can imagine, but we can measure. You only have to look at the top 14 to see that. Stade Français have got the biggest budget, and are currently 14th out of 14. Montpellier lost to Castres in the 2018 final, with twice the budget. Etc etc etc. Castres have made 3 finals in ten years, winning twice, against huge clubs. IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE MONEY. The situation only highlights the stupidity of the existing rules and cap. RFU and The Premiership need to look at themselves and sort it out correctly.
whtwht but again, look at what’s in front of your eyes. The biggest budget in France for the last two seasons is SF and they’re bottom of the top 14. It’s not as big a factor as you might think. It’s a stick used to bash saracens, but they’ve just treated the perfect system with plenty of money and great coaching. But I guarantee you that it’s the system and the coaching which have lead to the success. As ventor rightly said, they had all the money and the stars 15 years ago and were 8th. I’m fact didn’t they have Lynagh at 10 as well?
What's the solution to the salary cap, as it is a shame for Sarries (who 100% are cheats, I'm not in the slightest defending them) that the players that broke the cap, Farrell, the Vunipolas and Itoje, weren't signed as big superstars but either came through the academy or developed after being signed. Is the solution a Max contract such as in the NBA and maybe the club can offer a certain amount of academy graduates a Max contract +10%, as in this regard you can hold onto what you produce and should stop the back handers, I don't know this is just an option
Brendan talking bollox. Logic isn’t malleable. The facts are that Saracens paid players way more than was permitted. They have had essentially 2 teams, 1 from the academy and 1 of world stars. Exeter and Leinster have been robbed of titles as a result. There is only one point of view here- Saracens cheated, which is reinforced by their refusal to open their books. End of, book closed.
Did Venter ever play for the Toyota Cheetahs? Disgrace to the whole ethos of Rugby Union. Every time I hear him worming around the fact they cheated and were caught I just want to shout 99!
go listen to the house of rugby podcast - real professionals discussing the issue without emotions. These two are total amateurs. Additionally 11 out of 12 fans dont support you Goody neither Tinds not Hask agree with your stance in fact they reckon its a massive fuss about nothing. Dont waste time with this podcast go to House of Rugby for real rugby commentary and common sense.
Can't agree with that Duncan, not the endorsement of HOR but your stance that it's all fine, in my book it's no different than Sarries players getting busted for PEDs, Its financial doping. The game and its welfare go far beyond who wins the premiership, they're damaging the integrity of the sport you claim to be a fan of.
@@caballo6724 Fair enough but dont misunderstand me I think its a a shocking state of affairs what saracens have done. There are alot more folks to blame here and where was Prem rugby when they didnt follow through with the audits of the teams when this came to light all those years ago. My point is that that real professionals (Tinds and Hask) who have been there done that disagree with Goode in particular and believe that Saracens are actually taking better 'care of their players' in all senses of the word. I was a Quins fan all those years ago and when bloodgate hit a walked away on principle and never went back to the club. I think Saracens intentions were in the right place but execution was poor. Either way its a woeful state of affairs but its very interesting that professionals at the top end disagree with each other so massively. especially Tins vs Goode. I guarantee you that there are several other clubs pulling the same thing.
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I'm sorry but Brendan Venter's argument is completely in bad faith. He starts off by creating his own narrative and then tries to get Goodey to answer purely based on the fact Brendan thinks he's correct. It's not a matter of the players culture, which is second to none, but the back rooms culture. They cheated, suck it up, change what needs changing and move on.
If Sarries were close to the cap, they wouldn't have had a problem opening their books to PRL.
Brendan will think deeply
For someone who claims he is not in the know, he claims to know a lot.
@ 6:25 onwards...Venter saying that they were under the salary cap to start with and ended up over. Well, do the same as every other clubs has to when they breed world class talent...you either pay them or let them go! Same as a real business...if you raise a talented sales person but your business can't afford to pay them, you have to let them go somewhere else that CAN afford them, to continue building their career.
BV also seems to get confused over the term fact and conjecture. Fact; something known to exist or to have happened. Conjecture; an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. He admitted @ 10:59 that he didn't have all the facts. Nullifies the rest of the discussion.
He then admitted that no books were kept by Nigel @ 12:04. So Nigel was doing stuff off book? Taxable income? Why would Sarries refuse to open their books? If they aren't hiding anything, why not? Do they think that it would open the floodgates to the last 10-15 years worth of accounts that BV mentioned @ 8:28 that they have been overpaying from? Or am I misunderstanding?
Welcome to the real world, BV. As Denis Leary once said 'Life sucks, buy a helmet'.
This is a ridiculous post. 😂
He never listened or answered any question directly. Total bollox chat by Venter.
don't think his a doctor. he must be a lawyer
Thanx man. Won't bother.
Could have been a far better discussion if Venter listened to Goode. Andy has made great points, but Venter is super on the defensive just making the same points
So Brendan's first argument is "look we used to be allowed to spend lots of money but didn't do great with them....why cant we keep spending silly amounts of money?"
Brendan, regardless of whether you succeed or not, spending above the cap is wrong.
BV comment that they are nearly in the cap this year must be BS. Now Billy V is injured...surely that will mean they can now be under the cap? Or is BV outside the cap?
"the players could have taken a pay cut.... But that isn't what we are about."
Sums up the cheats perfectly
If being tried for embezzlement I would not want Venter representing me.
11:30..'Nobody knew, Nobody knew' So nobody at Sarries knew how much they were spending on players salaries. You really expect anyone outside of the club to believe that? Chairman, CEO?, Board of directors?, DoR? Salary Cap manager? Sorry, I, and many many others, do not believe that.
And £3million spent on (incorrect) legal advice on an overspend of 'just over' the cap. No sorry, I don't believe that either.
And Sarries relegation was caused by London Irish and Leicester being scared of going down. Oh Brendan, #celerydenier
Open your books then Saracens, mmmmmmmm no were take the hit and go down. Hiding more then we know.
This does raise a separate issue. If a club has a very good academy they may not be able to retain the players they created. Maybe the RFU needs to look at academy credits again. This would prevent a team buying a trophy outright as they would also need a first rate academy over a period of time. I would like to see players stay at one club for their whole career more often and not have circumstances outside of playing dictate where and when they go.
Multiple clubs have now said how they have lost out on home grown talent and I’m sure there are many players that have had to leave clubs they didn’t want to.
Saracens going down is going to be a great thing for them. They will get loads of publicity for the currently ignored championship, and then when they come back up the season after they will have everyone’s support as by then they will be the underdogs. I know there are huge financial implications for the team with going down, but aside from that it will do good things for the championship and sareys in my opinion.
Stating that you've nurtured all these young players and made them worth much more is irrelevant. The fact is that Sarries then offered them big new contracts that took them over the salary cap when they should have offered them less or let them go, but they chose to keep them all.
Brendan keeps going on about "this group of players" yes they are a good group of players. But that group of players shouldn't be together because they cheated the salary cap.
How did you keep those players together? You over paid them and gave them additional incentive to remain.
It's cheating undefendable
Myke Day The majority came from their own academy, rugby is getting too expensive and they need to raise the salary cap
@@alphaq1617 perhaps they do need to increase the cap. But the problem is no club can afford it. Saracens as a business is awful. They lost £45m last year. Unless a club has a huge backer pumping in the millions they'll go bust.
Let's say it was raised to £10m so that's an extra £3m clubs can spend. They'd not be able to afford it. But they'll have to in order to keep up and remain competitive. Ticket prices may have to increase, a lot of clubs aren't filling out stadiums as it is.
Myke Day I understand that, but salary caps is holding back English talent, some players are leaving for Wales and Ireland to their provinces because their national sides want their eligibility
@@alphaq1617 and our national side has the same rules. If you want to play for England you play in England. If players can make more money by going else where then they'll all just up and leave to France or Japan. This will then destroy the entire English league. As all the quality players will leave. It will also destroy our international game as all our best qualified players will have left. We've kept the rule of play in your country to maintain our domestic league. Without it all our clubs would effectively end.
Tough to debate as no matter how good the culture is/was we will never know if it was the money or the clubs culture that created this crop of great players and the success. If you boil it down saracens just shouldn’t have broken the cap, they have to take their medicine and they will. Interesting they took relegation over opening their books, presumably to avoid publishing player pay as it would create divisions within the club??
Or because they knew they'd be relegated anyway once their cheating was published in black and white for everyone to see. This way bullshitters like Hamilton and Venter will carry on in the media insisting they did nothing wrong
Love how Jim cannot get in to ask that incredible question 😂😂
There are lots of great clubs out there with great academy’s. Many struggle to keep all their best players, as Saracens have, as they get enticed by money from other clubs. I find it hard to believe that he can defend this by saying that the structures in the club are what make it great and not the money. Really.... Really... explain that to Exeter and Leinster and ........
Jim just use the correct word. The word is CHEATED. Stop trying to defend their actions.
Saracens shouldn’t be playing another game this season. Still unfair advantage over other teams and could affect out come of positions. They cheat and shouldn’t be allowed back in
Hopefully HMRC come after the club and players for unpaid tax and the club is wound up
What they are saying is you can break the salary cap, keep the trophies but get relegated next season. Why haven’t they had the trophies taken off them and given to the runners up, yes still not ideal but better than the cheating team keeping them
@@brightside0970 I actually don't think they should be redistributed because who's to say the runners up would've won? E.g. last year Munster may have made the Heineken Cup final instead of Saracens and would've fancied themselves to win.
They should definitely be stripped of the trophies just not necessarily given to the runner up (and I say this as a Leinster fan robbed of a fifth Heineken Cup to celebrate)
You understand this more than me. I follow Leicester tigers. Football my main sport. But I just don’t understand why they haven’t been stripped of titles that other teams have kept to the rules...
@@inBODwetrust13 I disagree, I think that all Saracens European trophies should go to Munster regardless of whether they beat us or not. This is coming from an impartial rugby fan here
I don't understand why the guy on the phone keeps using the argument that just because Saracens overpaid for the first 10-15 years of Wrays tenure and it didn't bring about instant success, that it shouldn't count now. What?!
Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, regardless of whether you benefit from it or not.
The irony is, thus could be the BEST thing to happen to Saracens. The talk is about how much they are allowed to spend. What about what they can afford? Even with the success they have had and the talent on show, they struggle to fill a 10,000 seat stadium. Hardly surprising that they are running up huge debt that they cannot pay. They've managed to write off, £50 million but that trick wont last forever. They may think they're too big to go the way of London Welsh, but then so did Enron.
I can understand why Saracens haven't opened their books. Anyone who runs a decent sized business knows the prospect of their books audited for 10 years is a horrendous one and very lengthy. This would hang over the club for ages and they'd be held in purgatory for a long time. I can accept that potentially, the club just wanted to accept the decision and move on.
Clearly they don't understand why Brendan is answering every interview the same way... 😂👍 His is thinking about it 👍
Basically guys Brendan is saying Nigel Wray wanted to triple his investment even if it ment cheating the system.
Still in the European cup?
Still keeping there titles after cheating throughout?
Still keeping there players?
Only going down to championship
Rfu need a pair of bollocks
T couldn’t agree more with you my friend
Delusional.
If u robbed a bank 15 years ago and failed, you would get trialed...then if u Rob about bank 15 years later and got away and then got caught, you still get trialed...it doesn't matter what the outcome is...you broke the law
Did he just say that they have broken the salary cap for 15 years?
He's been repeating this ridiculousness for the last week on various platforms. Saracens don't know how much they pay their staff? Bullshit.
Venter and Hamilton arguing from the wrong point of view unfortunately. I have sympathy with Saracens in that they have been victims of their own success but sadly that doesn't excuse them. They are arguing that it has been impossible to live within the cap because of the culture they created. That may be true but the rules have still been broken. They should have tried to change the rules if they felt like this, not secretly broken them.
Brendan Venter living in dream land. He makes no sense.
when running a business, (and in a way the financials of the club are a business), you budget and plan as year in advance. failure to be aware of going over budget is negligence and incompetent. failure to keep hold of this year's in a row is just plain cheating.
we need clarity,what about the truth??-
Whatever view is taken, it’s a mess and detrimental to Rugby Union as a whole. I played in an era where even at Junior Club Level, high quality players were given “Boot Money”.
Embarrassing from brendan atleast be honest now and admit they cheated. Release the figures
Goodey let Jim ask a question , stop hogging the microphone.
3 cheers for Sirelli Bom Bom
Venter is taking everyone for fools Wray a multi millionaire was to naive to know he was overpaying players 3 years in a row
A Saracens reject who played for the morrally upright Leicester Tigers back when Tigers were (allegedly) buying players houses and cars to work around the salary cap trying to be all sanctimonious 😀
"This year doesn't count!" 🤔
Logic is they cheated
I don't blame the players
But the club are the Glasgow Rangers of rugby. Rangers were demoted more than one league.
Saracens cheated end off.
It's embarrassing, English rugby pride themselves on fairness,
Honesty and respect, not buying it
They should be dropped out of professional rugby. Now they still have a chance to win the champions cup ????
Do you understand how Europe works versus the Prem? You also can't compare rugby penalties to football - dropping a rugby team down a few leagues is ridiculous. I'm no Saracens fan but half of your points don't make sense.
@@calummoran4626 do you understand you need to do well in your own league initially to qualify for the Euro champions cup? So yes the cheating does affect Europe
In fairness they have a slim chance they're playing Leinster who haven't lost a game all season in Dublin.. Without Billy
Was there a salary cap in the SPL? No. Did Celtic pay Juninho via an EBT? Yes. Did Hearts in the Romanov era? Allegedly. Rangers didn't cheat, it was a loophole that they exploited, any club could do it and many in England did the same. Not the same argument.
@@chrisd20 no they didn't "cheat", instead Rangers literally broke the law and no longer exist because of it. They didn't just "exploit a loophole"
That was 20 minutes of my life I won't get back! What utter dross from Ventner
Ventor is absolutely right, it`s not only about the money. The coach has a far greater influence than we can imagine, but we can measure.
You only have to look at the top 14 to see that. Stade Français have got the biggest budget, and are currently 14th out of 14. Montpellier lost to Castres in the 2018 final, with twice the budget. Etc etc etc. Castres have made 3 finals in ten years, winning twice, against huge clubs. IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE MONEY.
The situation only highlights the stupidity of the existing rules and cap. RFU and The Premiership need to look at themselves and sort it out correctly.
Course it's not all about money.. but it's a damn huge factor
whtwht but again, look at what’s in front of your eyes. The biggest budget in France for the last two seasons is SF and they’re bottom of the top 14. It’s not as big a factor as you might think. It’s a stick used to bash saracens, but they’ve just treated the perfect system with plenty of money and great coaching. But I guarantee you that it’s the system and the coaching which have lead to the success. As ventor rightly said, they had all the money and the stars 15 years ago and were 8th. I’m fact didn’t they have Lynagh at 10 as well?
Brendan sounds a bit delusional.
10 years ago Remgro pumped an extra 2 million plus in every year. That's when Sarries got successful.
QED?
Total bullshit by Venter. The Saracens brand is done. Cheaters and liars.
Incomprehensible. Too many bangs on the head.
Nice boots.
What's the solution to the salary cap, as it is a shame for Sarries (who 100% are cheats, I'm not in the slightest defending them) that the players that broke the cap, Farrell, the Vunipolas and Itoje, weren't signed as big superstars but either came through the academy or developed after being signed. Is the solution a Max contract such as in the NBA and maybe the club can offer a certain amount of academy graduates a Max contract +10%, as in this regard you can hold onto what you produce and should stop the back handers, I don't know this is just an option
Brendan talking bollox.
Logic isn’t malleable. The facts are that Saracens paid players way more than was permitted. They have had essentially 2 teams, 1 from the academy and 1 of world stars.
Exeter and Leinster have been robbed of titles as a result.
There is only one point of view here- Saracens cheated, which is reinforced by their refusal to open their books.
End of, book closed.
Venter could sell ice to the Eskimos - he's so charming! 😂
Did Venter ever play for the Toyota Cheetahs? Disgrace to the whole ethos of Rugby Union. Every time I hear him worming around the fact they cheated and were caught I just want to shout 99!
Think venter has the say speech writer as trump’s, can’t believe a word.😂
😂 😂
Brendan will never accept what they've been doing is wrong.... The classic trait of a cheat.
go listen to the house of rugby podcast - real professionals discussing the issue without emotions. These two are total amateurs. Additionally 11 out of 12 fans dont support you Goody neither Tinds not Hask agree with your stance in fact they reckon its a massive fuss about nothing. Dont waste time with this podcast go to House of Rugby for real rugby commentary and common sense.
Can't agree with that Duncan, not the endorsement of HOR but your stance that it's all fine, in my book it's no different than Sarries players getting busted for PEDs, Its financial doping. The game and its welfare go far beyond who wins the premiership, they're damaging the integrity of the sport you claim to be a fan of.
@@caballo6724 Fair enough but dont misunderstand me I think its a a shocking state of affairs what saracens have done. There are alot more folks to blame here and where was Prem rugby when they didnt follow through with the audits of the teams when this came to light all those years ago.
My point is that that real professionals (Tinds and Hask) who have been there done that disagree with Goode in particular and believe that Saracens are actually taking better 'care of their players' in all senses of the word. I was a Quins fan all those years ago and when bloodgate hit a walked away on principle and never went back to the club. I think Saracens intentions were in the right place but execution was poor. Either way its a woeful state of affairs but its very interesting that professionals at the top end disagree with each other so massively. especially Tins vs Goode. I guarantee you that there are several other clubs pulling the same thing.