I feel like saying 'you're perfect' at the end, really sums up how he didn't know what he was doing. Obviously, he was trying to give her validation, but instead of saying something along the lines of 'you're enough' he says 'you're perfect'. No one is perfect, it is good to strife for your best, but being raised to believe you are perfect, that you have no short comings, that every mistake you made doesn't matter because you're perfect, how could you make a mistake, thus losing a sense of morals, that is not healthy.
It's very sad that his horrible best was better than what she could get elsewhere. Apart from maybe Vi. But Vi never accepted her as she was and never understood her trauma.
yes and no. what you said is asically " he tried his best to be a good father but his best was horrible" and that is a fucked up statement to say. Is obvious that Silko cared about Jinx and loved her, but he even USED HER. he not only loved her, BUT HE NEEDED JINX. He didn't give a fuck about Powder, he wanted Jinx. That's why people are fucked up to idolize thi Father-Daughter relashionship cuz is toxic asf. Silko needed Jinx, she was usefull for his plan, but at the same time he loved her. If he was the best father, he would never let powder do what she did
@@termindterguta3514 You're forgetting how Jinx messed up his plans. Literally their first scene together after the timeskip was when she messed up on a job. Sevika even stated how she was just a problem. No one on Silco's team likes Jinx because she keeps screwing things up and they even start losing respect for Silco because he still keeps her around. He legit could have gave her up to Piltover but couldn't because he loves her more than Zaun and he never hated her for that. Also you know how Jinx wants to always be seen as useful to people she loves? Remember the last time she wasn't taken on a mission by someone she loves? She had a full blown breakdown. She *hates* rejection. She *hates* being weak. I bet she even asked Silco to give her missions to go on because she thinks she's ready to take them as she's strong. I think this is why Silco trusts her to do things like missions, his eye medicine as a way of showing her that he trusts her. Yeah, taking your insecure kid on missions as a way to show her that you trust her isn't good but that's what the original comment meant by his best for Jinx isn't good. But hey, this is Zaun. Kids don't really get to be kids.
As a writer myself, I absolutely *adore* Silco and Jinx's relationship--not because I think it's a good, wholesome, father/daughter dynamic, but because it's so complex and nuanced. Yes Silco loves Jinx unconditionally and wholeheartedly, yes Jinx loves and trusts Silco as much as she's capable of, but it is *absolutely* poisonous to both of them. It's toxic and abusive and *bad*, but that doesn't mean it's *not* loving--that's what makes it so fascinating. It's so complex and so genuinely, *tragically* human. I think the relationship is not praiseworthy in the sense that it's a good, healthy dynamic, but in the sense that it's a real and genuine portrayal of how these toxic relationships function, because oftentimes there *is* genuine love in the relationship. I know my mother loves me, but she did a lot of damage without meaning to because of her own traumas and her own toxic traits, and I've seen dozens of other people comment similar sentiments. It's absolutely *not* a relationship anyone should aspire to in real life whatsoever, but as a writer I can only hope to bring as much nuance into my own characters and their relationships.
Rightly or wrongly (but definitely human), he did not love her unconditionally. Otherwise he wouldn't have fought so hard against her being "Powder". That is a condition (at least in my eyes) but yeah I agree with you with everything else.
When I first watched the show, I thought what everyone else thought. “He’s the best father he could be in the set environment” or “He’s trying his best but his best was horrible, but he loves Jinx nonetheless”… but really…at the end of the show when he says “I never would’ve given you to them…not for anything” the puzzle pieces started connecting…He’s a codependent, traumatized person who bonded with a person just as, if not more, traumatized as him and opened himself up in many vulnerable ways (with his emotions, the shimmer injections, etc.), which allows him to express his emotions in some form and gives him a sense of safety, forgetting Jinx is a child… he’s a person who’s had an such a big traumatic experience with abandonment and to avoid a similar experience he will grasp onto anything and do anything to make it stay the way things are…and then it hit me: *“Of course he wouldn’t give her up..How could he?”* Silco was eventually so desperate for that emotional connection that once he’d gotten a sense of it, he’d be willing to sacrifice *anything* for it. This included the loyalty of his crew, the respect of his inferiors and attainable Nation of Zaun he fought for his entire life! And these examples go to show how deeply traumatized Silco is. That pain and betrayal really did “eat him from the inside out”. And although he’s a hardened kingpin, in his relationship with Jinx, it really shows how broken and twisted he is, no matter how tough or intimidating he displayed himself to be. Because when push came to shove, he was still a human being.
I never thought Chuck had a crush on jinx or liked her or anything like that. I thought he was just scared because of the awful stories he probably heard about her.
When people say that silco is a “good dad” it drives me nuts. Did he try to take care of her? Yes. Did he love her from the bottom of his heart? Yes. Did he want her to be happy? Absolutely. But he was still abusive and he didn’t express any of these traits in a healthy manner. The relationship is beautifully depicted, but that doesn’t make it healthy.
Love her from the bottom of his heart? No. His love was absolutely conditional. If someone is not useful to his cause he gets rid of them. That would definitely include jinx. The only person he may have loved that much was Vander.
@@ongoingsky9347 Ahh, you raise an interesting point. I think that throughout the show (more towards the beginning) his love/affection to her was seen to be conditional, and it certainly started out that way (no question), but I think it turned into a genuine fatherly/unconditional love -- which Silco didn't expect either. E.g.) with how he was talking about how daughters are undoing, and how he was never going to give her to them afterall -- he ultimately realizes that he loves/puts her above everything else. Just my take though!
@@ongoingsky9347his love was undeniably unconditional at the end. He was going to give up everything he worked for his entire life for her. You can truly love someone but love alone isn’t enough sadly...
@@ongoingsky9347 You are ignoring the multiple times she messed up and he did not once toss her aside, even in those moments allowing her to handle a sharp object next to him. His love for her was unconditional.
@@ongoingsky9347 “The topsiders offered me everything. Independence, a seat at the table. All in return for you (Jinx). They can all burn…I never would have given you (Jinx) to them. Not for anything” - Silco in episode 9. If that doesn’t say unconditional love, idk what does.
I saw the title and automatically said "YES! THANK YOU!!" Even before I watched the show I saw ppl glorifying their father-daughter relationship but when I watched it I was like "sure they love each other, but this is toxic af"
It's not a healthy relationship at all, but there is a tragic beauty about it too that makes it fascinating to watch. I liked the point about 'love not always being enough' and how it can be weaponised to do harm, or cause people to act selfishly. But that also doesn't make the love not real. It's why Silco's dying words make a lot of people feel so much, despite his character, because it feels like a pure, sincere moment amongst all the others that are layered by toxicity.
As someone who grew up in an abusive household you absolutely nailed everything I took away from the Silco and Jinx relationship. I felt neither happy nor upset, but instead a deeply emotional and sad understanding of it. I'd like to add that Silco also isolated himself from others emotionally, as most often seen when dealing with Sevika whom was trying in her own way to be his friend as much as an underling, fortifying the co in the codependence. They genuinely loved each other, but to the exclusion of everyone else. On a side note: Regarding the 'Chuck' relationship. If you stop frame on his face and compare it to the episode one street brawl, you'll see that he's the kid that chased her and ended up getting glitter bombed, making the prank on him as an adult all the more meaningful. He was genuinely terrified of her dealing retribution, and I'm reasonably sure she'd kept that ball rolling over the years just to mess with him.
"Guns for Hire," the song that plays as Jinx lights the flare for Vi to find her, is literally about Silco's need for control and his tendency to manipulate his relationships to achieve his goals. And when his control falters, everything he has built is at risk of crumbling down, and he only has himself to blame. He did love Jinx, but his manipulation of her is undeniable. Sometimes telling someone they are perfect is the absolute worst thing you can say to them when they need serious help.
100% agree that Silco "showed signs and glimpses of being a wonderful father." The seeds/potential of something good were there. That's why the relationship dynamic is so compelling. We want to see how the universal need for love/acceptance unfolds. How love can manifest/express itself in different (even terrible & toxic) ways. Like a beautiful trainwreck you can't take your eyes off of. Also: great point that love is an emotion. And like any other emotion, it can be blinding & destructive in excess.
tru, and we crave found-family parental relationships like in The Owl House (Eda & Luz), Marvel(Tony & Peter), and MHA (Literally Deku & another adult figure). We crave that, and end up projecting
Yes, that's the thing. It's kind of hard for a lot of people who had worse parents to see Silco as bad and abusive when they have parents who would never show even Silco's level of care and love and acceptance, who would never say to their child even when they genuinely did an amazing job that they were perfect. He gives Jinx something many people have absolutely have missed out on and crave. Yes, Silco's not a great healthy dad.. however that 'you're perfect' after a lethal devastating mistake by her? Powerful even to those of us with good parents, let alone those without.
To be honest I'm a little shocked that anyone can look at this relationship and come away thinking it was entirely healthy or admirable. While Powder may have shown signs of instability even before Silco got his hands on her, I truly don't think she would have inevitably become Jinx without his toxic influence. And I really don't know how you can argue that a good responsible parent would encourage their child to become a weapon for their cause like that. Like you've pointed out there's a lot of complexity to this this relationship, and loving someone is not the same as treating them in a way that's healthy. I know my mom loves me, but she still did some incredibly damaging things when I was growing up so it's been clear to me for a long time that love and unhealthy behavior are not mutually exclusive. I would sincerely hope anyone who missed the red flags between Jinx and Silco do some research and reevaluate their definition of a healthy relationship for their own sake.
If I'm living in a hellhole like the undercity where revolution is the only way to prevent absolute atrocities on a daily basis, you fucking bet I'd teach my kids how to fight. This is a place where cops can walk up to you without evidence and throw you through windows without consequence, where kids are crippled by toxic fumes, where there is no law or hope for the future, where even the kids of the de facto leader have to steal in order to not go hungry. Takes like these boggle my mind honestly. Like yeah, training your kid to become a weapon is obviously bad in a first world paradise, but in the world of Arcane it's downright irresponsible not to do it.
I would encourage you to compare Vi/Vander and Silco/Jinx. One was taught how to fight and how to lead. As well as the lessons of how to grow, responsibility, and how to care for others. While the was driven to isolation and mania. It's not a question of "it's bad to train someone to fight." That is an incredibly misleadimg strawman arguement that no one made.
@@AFlyingWalrus The guy I was responding to literally made that argument, I'm not attacking a strawman. Besides, you're 100% wrong on this. Vi wasn't taught to fight, she was taught the exact opposite. She was taught to lie down and take the abuse, because fighting would mean losing things precious to her in the process. It's not a bad lesson if you aren't unfortunate enough to be born in the undercity.
Then my question to you is, who taught Vi to fight in the exact same way and style as Vander? To stand up for those around you, even at a great cost to yourself. Please critically think about the context of stories before making accusations on people. From your comments, you appear to be more interested in attacks than discussions, but I will not go down to that level. Have a good day.
I think the Silco and Jinx relationship can be summarized pretty neatly; You can try your best, and still fail. You can mean well for someone and do wrong by them. Silco *tried* and truly meant to *well by Jinx*, in the spiritual sense that speaks well of Silco' transformation as a person who worked only for his life's goal and ended up sacrificing that goal for someone else, but attempting to do well, and meaning well, does not mean you actually DID well. He tried, and he failed. As painful as that is.
I find it really sad how he projects his relationship with Vander onto Jinx’s relationship with Vi, because he thinks they’re the same. But it’s also really frustrating to watch because he’s corrupted their dynamic and lets Jinx’s insecurities fester overtime without trying to help her properly heal, just as he never did.
That's an interesting point. Silco lived for so long fueled by revenge on Vander, that when he lost that he lost a part of himself that he then tried to transfer unfairly onto Jinx.
@@AFlyingWalrus And we see it was all a lie, because all it took was for Jinx to see Vi ONCE, and she essentially became that little girl again. There was NO deepseeded dislike for Vi like there was with Silco and Vander. Just Silco's projection of his own trauma.
@@lockekappa500 But that wasn't the case for Silco either? Silco didn't hate Vander. He lost that hate long ago. All he had left was a feeling of betrayal and not being able to understand why Vander betrayed him.
@@govind.m86 I mean, he DID hate him, for a long time. He even admits to it. But like many things, it subsided and he got over it. But I feel like he still projected his initial conflict with Vander on Powder, despite the fact that in actuality it was all a misunderstanding. Yet Silco defaulted to leading Powder down the same path he went down.
@@lockekappa500 Yeah so we agree he wasn't driven by hate. He attacks Vander because he needs him gone to take over Zaun. It's a very rational decision. And what misunderstanding? Vi did betray Powder. She smacked her, called her a Jinx and left her there crying while Powder ardently begged her to not leave. These are things that Vi chose to do and coming back wasn't going to change that. All that talk about family always having each other's backs; Powder not being a problem; Wanting Powder to stay behind because it was too dangerous. All of that ended up being lies once Vi said she left her behind because she was a Jinx. That's what Jinx referred to when she said "You aren't lying to me? Not again." Wanting to reconcile doesn't remove the past. Even Silco was ready to reconcile with Vander despite Vander having attempted murder and Silco not having done anything in retaliation yet.
10:33 - what are people thinking saying she has friends, he literally tells her "everyone else betrays us" so she thinks she can trust nobody else but him
I really appreciate your willingness to share, even if only vaguely, your experiences with toxicity in your relationship. It’s never easy to expose something so personal or challenging, and it takes a lot of guts. As for Jynx and Silco, I’m with you in my concerns regarding how some people idealize this father-daughter relationship. Their codependency is very clearly on display and while their love for one another seems genuine, that doesn’t make the ways in which they express it healthy. In many ways, these two had been ruined by their prior experiences, left broken to such an extent that their expressions of love were bound to be tainted. They are both victims in that sense, becoming victimizers because that’s what they understand.
If Jinx is the “perfect” embodiment of the Zaun that Silco was striving for, that’s some really damning poetry, given what Silco turned the undercity into during the timeskip. I was primed from the moment act 1 ended to believe that Silco would be controlling and manipulative of Powder while also making her depend on him for human connection. I didn’t realize that Silco actually cared about Jinx until the gramophone scene, of all moments. There was something so unexpectedly commonplace about that moment, in an uncommon location between uncommon people, and I was suddenly forced to realize that there was more going on than what I was letting myself see. …also who the hell thought the scene with her at the bar was flirtatious? “Chuck” was obviously unnerved and she was obviously trying to unnerve him. He’s literally standing as physically far away from her as he can while still handing her the drink. What? Also she’s like, 14? Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.
not disagreeing, just wanna point out that Jinx is more likely 16-17. She was ab 7-8 at the end of Act III, and based on how they age, the time skip seems to be ab 7 years
@@azul.a That's what I mean. They keep her age relatively ambiguous beyond being about 16-18 Edit: I honestly appreciate that they did so tho, as it deters people from sexualizing her (especially since Jinx in the game is very much suppose to be the "sexy manic pixie" trope) and instead actually focusing on her character
Silco and Jinx are amazing characters because of how broken they are And for each other, unknowingly, they were the worst for each other while feeling like they were exactly what they needed.
No. Silco wanted Jinx. Jinx always wanted to be with Vi. Jinx is only with Silco because Silco kept her isolated and kept telling her "everyone betrays us". Jinx wouldn't be that broken if Silco wasn't actively working to keep her broken. Until his last breath.
@Seyha Leonhartz Silco didn't want anything from or about a child. Powder quite litterally fell into his lap and he took advantage of that yes, but Powder was already in position for that downward spiral on her own, Silco just sped up the process. Powder already had massive emotional break downs before Silco, aka when she reacted violently to Vi telling her she couldn't come. Yes Powder wanted to be with Vi, but ultimately she wanted to be with someone who wanted her back, and Silco gave that to her. Powder was already broken before Silco. Silco never wanted Powder, he wanted Jinx. But he didn't make her, technically neither did Vi despite what Jinx says. Jinx was already a possibility within Powder, Vi just kept her afloat.
@@mrgreenpickuptruck oh god here we go. Jinx made Silco human, while Silco made Jinx a monster. Jinx wants Vi so she can be human but Silco prevents that. So to say "they were the worst for each other while feeling like they were exactly what they needed" is false. Jinx is what Silco needs to heal, but Silco is NOT what Jinx needs. To heal, Jinx needs Vi period.
@@rustygear447 I didn't say they FIXED anything I said that Jinx wanted to be wanted and Silco gave her that And Silco needed control but he let go of it for Jinx It was not healthy and I in no way insinuated that And in fact I said that Powder/Jinx made Jinx, and never said anything about Silco being a good father or being "human" Powder was broken Silco was broken Two broken people didn't fix each other But the position they were in felt like it did to THEM, not us the audience
I find the section about isolation to be so powerful in describing their relationship. The way Silco was trying to kill Vi to regain control over Jinx is a really good example of what you said.
This type of cautionary tale is a definitely uncomfortable, but it is needed. It resonates with me a lot. I am fortunate enough now to be in a better place and in a healthy, loving relationship, as well as many awesome friendships!!!! For anyone out there going through a toxic relationship with a family member like I have, romantic, or any other type, I promise you, it does get better.
Great analysis. They really captured so much nuance in this relationship. It was at once sweet and loving, and toxic and abusive. It was really hard to watch because of that fine line they walked so well.
Okay here I go: Silco and Jinx's relationship is something very tragic not because I see Silco's an abuser but because his own trauma prevents him from being the healthiest person to her. Really, I think the only parent in the show who I'd describe as "loves their kid but def didn't show it well" is Ambessa with her relationship with Mel. He already exhibits good dad behavior: being patient, loving, accepting, attempting to help her the way he can. She can talk to him about any problem she has without fear of being shunned! I have a much healthier relationship with my parents but even I am sometimes afraid to tell them my problems. But he also passes down his toxic world views down to her because he can't move on from his trauma (Thanks Vander!). He tells Jinx that everyone will betray them not because he's a lying piece of shit who wants to isolate her so that she'll only depend on him BUT because he's broken man twisted by the world who truly believes in what he says. His closest friend betrayed him, it's no wonder he believes everyone else will. It's his attempt of *protecting* her. Besides this isn't a world where everyone-is-your-friend-you're-safe-here, this is a world dog-eat-dog-watch-your-back In any case, Jinx seems to have freedom. She goes to places by herself (the Arcade and the place where she was when she lit the flare). Silco also does send her on missions with others (see ep 4) He tries to kill Vi, which is very very yikes, but he didn't come at it in a way "This is important to Jinx so I have to ruin it for her." He does it because of he's *scared* of losing her. The one person he loves. The whole baptism scene is his own way of therapy, it's basically him telling her "My daughter, in this river where I became the man I am today, is the one I want you to drown Powder, the name of the past that haunts you so very much. I want you to be brave, to be strong and to never let those demons hold you any longer." And it did work pretty well before she heard that Vi was back. We see her after the baptism being all happy and solving the hexgem, she very willing to talk to other people (see Chuck) . Yes, she's suffering from actual mental illnesses but Silco doesn't have the knowledge we have, it's unfair to judge him with our standards. You can't get mad at a monkey for not fixing your car if you had not taught it to hold a wrench! He lies to Jinx about Vi being there for the crystal : Though you CAN argue that he truly believes Vi isn't a good sister, which is what I believe due to him thinking Vander and Vi are the same and his major trust issues. The thing is, the intention hasn't changed, he's fucking terrified of her leaving him. He's went through being abandoned once already, he doesn't want to deal with that agonizing pain again. I do believe if therapy existed and Silco was able to get help (and wasn't a drug kingpin lmao, which is really why he allows Jinx to build bombs and kill people because if he's already committing crimes, why shouldn't she?), he would've been a really great dad. But for a world which is very unhealthy, has no way for someone to properly go address their traumas, I think Silco did the best he could. Sometimes it was right and sometimes it was wrong. It's complex like everything else in Arcane. That's the real tragedy with these two. They're very broken by the people they loved and the world they lived in.
I mentioned all of this to my sister and it broke her paradigm of their relationship so hard. I love both of these two and i think they have a genuinely loving relationship. But Silco was a damaged and broken man warped by his ideals and beliefs and all of that seeped into how he brought Jinx up. I dont think any of it was ever intentional. But sometimes thats the worst kind of abuse because it's not obvious and it is unfortunately the most common.
What you said in the beginning - that abuse should not be written for laughs - made me think. That also applies to Sheldon Cooper in 'the big bang theory' right? Because you're right. I'm an abuse victim myself, experienced all kinds of toxic behavior towards me with LOTS of gaslighting and manipulation and when I watched big bang for the first time I didn't find it funny, just uncomfortable and a little triggering. My friends didn't understand me at all, they loved the show and couldn't see where I was coming from.
I found this video after season 2 just before act 3 just in anticipation, but what you said about emotional abuse. It does sound weird to other people. I was in such a relationship for 10 years. And people couldn't understand why I didn't leave him. And I genuinely thought he was telling the truth all the time. He made me feel like I was insane a lot of the time if I actually confronted him about anything. I questioned myself and my memories like you said. It's kind of comforting to hear someone else say it because everyone else in my life just thinks I was a pushover, like I was weak, but my head was messed up in a way that's really hard to describe. So this video being 2 years old, you might not see this, but thanks.
I find it interesting that people think the bar scene between jinx and chuck is in anyway a flirtatious conversation. I always saw chuck's discomfort coming from the fact that he was talking to a very unpredictable girl that had guns and explosives and would use them at the drop of a hat for no reason. I think he acts the way he does because he has no idea what could trigger her and is just trying to keep himself alive in the scene. He is just super nervous and jittery.
I'm so happy I'm not the only who finds this relationship as cautionary rather than romanticising it. I grew up with a mother who often gaslit and manipulated me and my siblings into believing that no one loved us. She even went so far as to make us believe that our dead father was abusive and only beat me and my siblings. She isolated us from the rest of our family, when they loved us and had been fighting to get us away from her. She neglected us to the point where I had to step up and raise my siblings. But she "loved us" so no harm no foul right? I'm surprised I haven't seen this till now. Two years later, I watched the shit out of everything on this franchise. So thanks a lot for making this video. I love these two characters so much, but it's not a relationship people should emulate.
Years of therapy and a thousand dollars worth of self help books haven’t explained relationships like this as well as you have. Please keep doing what you’re doing, your voice is needed in our world.
Thank for making this video to shed light on how toxic relationships work. I'm really horrified that so many glorify their relationship. It's so unhealthy and abusive, and people don't read between the lines. Instead of "Silco accepted a part of her that Vi never did and his love was pure", it should be that Silco would have killed her like he did her family on the spot if Jinx didn't remind him of herself when she reached out to him for comfort. The relationship was born from toxicity so how can it be seen as anything but unhealthy, really?
I’m a male in my 20’s and this video has almost brought me to tears multiple times. This video resonates with from the show and from your own stories. This has made me realize my own faults in my last relationship. Throughout this show and video it made me really think about my relationship and I see jinx and Silco as who I was on different occasions and different times throughout the relationships. I won’t go into to much detail but holy f*ck I’m messed up right now but I think in a good way.
I feel like Silco genuinely loved Jinx and could’ve been a great father if the circumstances were better. His biggest mistake was comparing powder to himself. They had both been betrayed by someone very close to them, Vander for Silco and Vi for Powder. But the circumstances were different. For one Powder probably had a closer relationship to Vi than Silco had to Vander. While Silco was a grown adult when Vander betrayed him, Powder was child and probably thought of Vi as a surrogate mother as well as a sister. Also the guilt that powder felt as well. Silco blames the deaths of the people who died in the Zaunian revolution on Piltover while Powder blames herself for Milo and Claggor’s deaths and she is still haunted by them. He tried to teach her to grow out of the pain the same way he did. By moving further. By getting ever closer to his goals but that wasn’t gonna work for Powder.
Man, I'm speechless. idk what to say because I feel like everything you said is exactly what I felt. Before this I didn't really know how to describe their relationship except saying, "The sad thing is he really did love her, and she really did love him." And that is the exact sentiment you showed. That yes, they did love each other, but not every way that they expressed their love was healthy. The control they both wanted to have was too destructive for either of them to make it out on top. And because of their individual trauma, neither was given a healthy way to overcome it, and instead continued to worsen it (either intentionally or not). Which is why it drove me nuts seeing ppl say it was healthy, because I could never really explain why I felt it wasn't. I'd just motion at the screen and be like "What about this is healthy??" while Jinx is stabbing Silco with his eyedrops or Silco is lowering her into the river while saying she needs to let that anger/trauma fester to become Jinx. Yes there were aspects of the relationship that were sweet, like Jinx's art and Silco feeling relaxed around her, but that doesn't change the fact they have insane negative effects on each other.
Everything you said here was true, but you got one thing wrong he didn't tell her to let her anger and trauma Fester he told her to let it die so she could move on and not let the fear of pain control her. He actually doesn't want her to suffer from it.
I've personally faced almost every kind of abuse there is, so when you were going to talk about it and you got that lump in your throat, I FELT THAT. It's a raw feeling, an emotion that truly has no conceptual basis or discernable root. It physically takes a hold on you, that feeling in your throat, and when other people bring up their pain and they feel it, it's the only way you know you can relate. That awful, horrible, throat feeling. I hear you.
Villains are typically personifications of things loathed, such as greed or hate or lust. REAL people, villains or heroes, have actual PERSONALITIES... and all the strengths AND weaknesses thereof. The success of Silco and Jinx as villains is that they do not exist to be villainous. They are crafted to be like REAL people who happen to do horrible things. Like REAL people, they have hopes and dreams too. They love and are loved.
Honestly have no idea how anyone could look at the scene with Chuck and think either of them were flirting anywhere there (then again it comes from the same people that seriously argue Vi flirts with Jayce so I guess I shouldn't be shocked). Chuck was clearly terrified of her and Jinx new that and, in a way, tormented him for information before making him think he was going to die. Oh yeah. So flirty.
I agree with your points, and I especially respect and understand the added personal experience you bring to this discussion. Jinx and Silco’s dynamic is not a healthy one; it’s toxic and rooted in trauma and codependency. However, I think a viewer can still admire and enjoy viewing this relationship while simultaneously admitting that it isn’t healthy or something to aspire to in reality. In my opinion, Jinx and Silco’s relationship is a tragic one, but to some extent, a beautiful one too. I think what sets their dynamic apart from, say, Mother Gothel and Rapunzel’s dynamic in Tangled, is that both parties are attached to one another and love each other dearly. Mother Gothel is intentionally and unapologetically abusive. She gaslights and isolates Rapunzel knowing full well what she’s doing, but continues to do it because she cares more about Rapunzel’s hair than Rapunzel herself. Rapunzel is nothing but an asset to her, an extension of her own greed, and it’s a hindrance to Gothel that, in order to reap the benefits of Rapunzel’s magic hair, she is forced to endure her constant presence as a daughter. This is not the situation with Silco and Jinx. Silco shows unconditional love for Jinx, and it could be argued that he accepts and embraces who she is more than Vi ever did. Jinx is able to grow into someone capable of defending herself, capable of making her inventions work the way she wants them to, and she gains a confidence that she never had as Powder. Of course, the obvious drawback to this is that Jinx is unhappy and unwell. The only other person in her life that she cares about is Silco, and you’re correct in your point about him purposefully isolating her. She suffers from debilitating mental illness, and her self destructive flaws are only encouraged and praised by Silco because he values the chaos and monster within her. Like it or not, Jinx is his perfect weapon. She embodies the chaos of Zaun that he never could. And yet, by the end, as soon as everything he’s ever wanted is within his grasp, he gives up everything for her. He doesn’t do this out of any kind of benefit to himself-quite the opposite. Jinx is a detriment to him and his success with Zaun, and he knows it. She’s a detriment to him because she has become something he values more than his nation, and that was something he never expected. I don’t think Silco manipulates Jinx intentionally, or out of any conscious malice. He manipulates her because he’s terrified to lose her, not understanding that love is about valuing the other person’s free will and independence. Whether he admits it or not, he’s still traumatized by Vander’s betrayal, and he projects all of that trauma onto Jinx as a sort of catharsis and validation for himself, and for her. He tells her, “Everyone betrays us,” not because he’s lying to get her to obey him, but because he believes that it’s true. Now that he believes he’s found the one person in the world who understands him more than anyone, who he can trust whole heartedly, he’s willing to do anything to keep her, even if that means lying to her about Vi’s supposed intentions. He hates Vi, not only because she hurt Jinx, but because he projects his hatred of Vander onto her AND she is the one person who could potentially take Jinx away from him. I think some of us have this fantasy of being loved unconditionally by someone else. Where all our flaws, even the most horrendous and chaotic ones, are excused and forgiven with no hesitation. Where if we were ever in any kind of danger, this person would be willing to rip the world apart to save us. I think the reason people are so attached to Jinx and Silco’s dynamic is because they fulfill that fantasy. Unconditional love that is so strong it becomes dangerous is a trope that many people gravitate towards because, although it’s unrealistic and would never work out well in our real lives, it’s enjoyable to imagine a world where someone could love US like that, no matter what or who we were.
Please don't fantasize this kind of relationship. It's not beautiful. Silco didn't show unconditional love. There's a massive condition which is to kill Powder. That's gaslighting/brainwashing. You can do whatever you want as long as what you want is also what I want, is not unconditional love. Don't be ridiculous.
People like that DO exist. It's called our parents. With few exceptions parents love their kids unconditionally, and every parent I've met told me that the love they have for their kids is like something you'll never experience unless you have kids. And I believe them. I think people don't understand the difference between unconditional love and unlimited tolerance.
@@minutemansam1214 I know what you mean. However, a lot of parents cannot handle this love that they have for their kids and it become over-protectiveness and obsession which is harmful to the child's mental health and growth. They call it unconditional love and they believe it, but it's actually not. Most abusers don't know that they are abusive, and most abused victim don't know they are being abused. They only know after being out of the relationship and looking back.
You literally took the words right out of my head. This is exactly how I wish I could explain to people without making them think I disagree with their arguments
Videos like this let me know that I'm curating my fandom experience thoroughly, because I haven't seen these bad takes first hand. I think you did a great job of going through the messy complications of their relationship! (Also, the idea that the bartender was flirting with Jinx is so mind boggling like he's CLEARLY afraid of her but even if he WAS attracted to her, whomst is foolish enough to hit on their boss's daughter when their boss is Silco?? Considering Silco's Whole Deal, it would not at all surprise me if he straight up killed someone for trying to get with Jinx. They DEFINITELY wouldn't be staying on his payroll, lmao).
I like the relationship for what it is --- a codependent, unhealthy one. It can be hard to watch but it's also intriguing in a way. And yes, it shows abuse between two people who don't actively try to be abusive. Which is why there's a lot of squick and ??? for me when I see people ship the two like I can't even verbalize it. I give kudos for the writers not glorifying the relationship or Jinx's mental illness. That being said Powder starts off still as very isolated and co-dependent and I don't think she ever was going to come out mentally stable unless she got some serious therapy as a child and in Zaun that was never going to happen. I don't even think Vander gave her the attention she needed and Vi was never going to be enough or think she was enough.
Jinx and Silco are my two favorite characters. They also have my favorite character relationship in the show, the scenes of them together were always my favorite
I went on the internet a while ago looking for a video like this, and I found Georgia Dow's.... I couldn't even get 10 minutes through. I appreciate that you can understand and even love these characters...and still know that love doesn't mean healthy. I saw a lot of my dad at his worst moments in Silco. Projecting, putting her in uncomfortable positions in the name of love and trust, lying to get what he wants. Thankfully my dad has gotten help and we have a much more healthy relationship now. It was just so jarring for me, it was like reliving those moments.
When people were praising this relationship I went along with it at first because I was very naive and unable to comprehend their relationship, but I always knew deep down that something wasn’t right cus the way Silco “raises” Jinx always made me feel uncomfortable or sick to my stomach. It was like watching an adult groom a child into a relationship& take advantage of her broken mind to mold her into someone he wants her to by projecting his trauma onto her, all while saying things like, “I understand what your going through” “We’re not so different” “I’m here for you” to trick her into thinking he cares when he’s just using her as a pawn.
I have to thank you for talking about the unknowing aspect of their abuse. I, just a few days ago, cut off a "friend" who mistreated, attacked, manipulated and psichologically and emotionally abused me. I let this happen for an entire year, telling him every single time that he hurted me and shouldn't do that again, but backing down anytime I saw him cry and apologize choking down on his own tears. It got to a point where I was totally TERRIFIED of him, anytime he got frustrated he started acting violent and hitting everything around me. I could only think "when is he gonna hit me? Which one of these days am I gonna be phisically close enough to him in the wrong moment and get hit?". Yet I justified his behavior to every single person that told me how wrong he was, all because he didn't do it on purpose. I couldn't name his behavior "abuse" because I knew it was due to him not being able to handle and proccess his own emotions and insecurities, instead of him being "evil". But manipulation and abuse are still those things even if the person did them unknowingly. And it took me a lot of time to accept that. So I'm not only glad that Arcane shows this kind of relationship, I'm incredibly grateful to see you talking about it and highlighting this aspect of it. I wish the best of luck to you, and I sincerely hope you can finally get closure .
THANK YOU for this video. I was extremely fortunate not to experience abuse as a child, so I had no words for the worries Georgia Dow's explanation caused in me. I tried, especially with Silco's dying words, and I'm fairly pleased with the explanation I reached in that comment but I definitely lacked the eloquence that comes from truly understanding the situation. All I knew was "no, this isn't a good thing" and focused more on what flaws Silco had to have in order to make these decisions. It took me down the rabbit hole of the difference between empathy and sympathy and compassion, between logic and rationality, and how they all relate to each other, but the actual anatomy of the problems between Silco and Jinx requires so much more than "Why". This is the "What" and the "How" of that relationship, and I am grateful you chose to expose yourself this way so that we could understand.
You're very good with your explanation of your perspectives on Arcane. You keep it civilized and clear. When you said "If Jinx had any friends, they would've made an effort to display that in the show," that's what really sold me to your observations that this relationship is manipulative. Basically I love the way you made this video. Stay awesome G.
This is a great video. It sounds like you and I went through similar experiences in a relationship. The element you talked about that really sticks out for me is the isolation - slowly peeling away friends, family, and the rest of your support network. It left me emotionally dependent on my partner and made it impossible for me to see what was really going on. The frog in the boiling water. What finally helped me was making a new group of close friends through online gaming (since in-person activities would have been looked on suspiciously). When one of my friends said my relationship was emotionally abusive, it crystallized everything for me. For the next year or so after that, I worked on reconnecting with close family members I hadn't talked to in a decade and got myself out of that situation. I've ended up in a much healthier relationship where my partner actively encourages me to make and maintain connections with other people and to avoid isolation. So much of what you said resonates with me and I just want to thank you for putting this out there; hopefully it helps some people recognize potentially similar situations in their own lives.
Yes, someone gets it! What fascinates me about Silco and Jinx is that they represent a type of abusive relationship that is rarely ever depicted in Hollywood: codependent, terrifying -- and yet **loving.** The feelings of these two for each other are so raw and so understandable given their connection formed in high-stress, traumatic events, but their most harmful traits for themselves and others were encouraged by each other. Jinx was pulled away from every person in her life that could mend her relationship; Ekko and Vi especially. Silco is indirectly responsible for Vander's death, and I believe that Silco exacerbated Jinx's estrangement with Vi by pitting the himself and Jinx against the world. In return, Jinx had a wildly devoted relationship to him and yet she had no stability or modeling on how to process her feelings or even articulate them beyond what the world had shown her --- pew-pew. Jinx's reckless and arguably nihilistic behavior strengthened Silco's need to "protect her" in a much more controlling manner, which hardened his approach in claiming Zaun and fighting against Piltover. They were so heartfelt, and you could tell that they genuinely cared for the other -- but neither of them had the tools to unpack their traumas... and it had fatal results. Neither of them wished ill on each other-- but people's wounds come out subconsciously... and they both had many. I loved your "art painted in blood" metaphor. It is very, very true to Silco and Jinx. Relationships can be loving and still be very dangerous and disconcerting... I also relate to this topic as someone who HAS endured multiple interpersonal traumas and experienced codependency in previous relationships. It's hard shit. I'm still in therapy processing it all, and some of this stuff happened 10-15 years ago...
I just finished it last night and it is absolutely amazing, especially Silco’s character. His quote *“ is there anything more undoing than a daughter?”* Really stuck with me. At first, I thought he was talking about how jinx is his downfall And ruin. But really, it’s about how she was undoing his cruelty, in the walls, he built as his reputation of a fearsome and powerful person. He’s a horrible person who is responsible For the deaths of many people, but still has huge capacity to love huge amounts of care for his daughter. That is what makes the show so incredible: It’s realistic and Accurately portrays The humanity of people, Good or bad.
I love this take. Some people tend to think that Jinx was the only one suffering in the relationship and Silco is just a big bad abusive father. Silco and Jinx both have truama and insecurities and they're both codependent on eachother. But Silco holds the power in the relationship, so whether intentional or not, the abuse was his doing.
Yess sort of but Jinx was also absuive towards him. I mean she did physicially hurt him because she felt like he lied to her and in the end he was willing to betray him just as easily fully knowing betrayal is his biggest fear. (Yes in the last scene she was willing to shoot Silco if Vi chooses to shoot Cait. She didn't even gave him a chance to explain himself meaning killing him was the sole purpose he was there). Yess Silco is an adult manipulating a child so in that has more power but it's not like Jinx is completely weak and powerless either.
@@sns_taunoraka782 Part of that though, is that she believed he was betraying her, something he spent years hammering into her head as an "unforgivable sin"
@@sns_taunoraka782 Victims of abuse eventually exhibit abusive behavior themselves. Not to mention if Silco hadn't been manipulative as he raised her, she could have had a chance at being something different. It is very naive to not recognize the gravity of Silco's actions in raising her the way he did which he did quite deliberately, making his fault all the greater. Also, when dealing with someone who suffers from mental illness, you must remember it isn't inherently their fault when they act in ways due to results from the illness, you probably wouldn't feel the same way about someone getting angry or harsh while in pain from cancer. He purposely raised her in a way that contributed to more instability. It's like if you were raising a lion and keeping it scared and teaching it with starvation and aggression, would you then blame or be surprised when the lion attacks in fear, or hunger, or survival? I think not.
@@crowpatrol3226 so I may get personal with this but I struggled with abuse myself and I know I had fault in it to, Not exclusively of course. But I rocognize how I provoked my mother in such a way that she reacted violently and agressively towards myself and being raised in household where violence is normalized I quickly took at as a normal method of conflict and engaged in violent acts towards my parents as well. What I'm saying ist situations are often complicated with Jinx and Silco Just as much as Mine is too. And from expirience I can say yes, I absolutely agreed, you really do have the potential to learn methods from absue as child and adopt it yourself, creating a never ending cycle. Silco reminds me a lot of my own father, unconfitionally loving and truly with the best interests at heart but hurting Jinx through his manipulation worsening her mental illness while my father has intense Anger outbursts especially around my severe anxiety definitly worsening symptoms. What I'm saying is it is not one person that can hurt in the process but several and even when you are a child you can still have impact on another human being and truly hurt them, just as much as they csn hurt you. And I find that importsnt to recohnise as only through that we can actually break the cycle.
@@crowpatrol3226 “sometimes EVENTUALLY exhibit”. saying “eventually exhibit” makes it sound like all victims of abuse will do or do that and that’s flat out wrong and stupid.
This might get removed but I came across this video in my recommended because I've been watching a lot of arcane stuff recently. I saw your name and recognized it from a streamer I used to watch daily a few years ago. Keep at it man. You're doing alright.
Thank you for touching on this - it says a lot of what I've been thinking about "love not being enough, just by itself" to fix anything. When I watched Arcane with a bunch of friends and they began really idealizing Jinx and Silco's relationship, I felt so uncomfortable in a way I couldn't quite name. I appreciate you making this video :)
I'm so glad you made this video. Personally, I also feel uncomfortable when people claim Powder and Silco's relationship as healthy. While there may be healthy elements to it (Silco's trust and love), they definitely are not good for each other. As heartbreaking and touching as his final words were to her, I can't help but think that they were the last thing he should have said to Powder-- to change nothing, that she is perfect. The sad truth is Powder isn't perfect as she is. She's violent and unpredictable. And she has so much that she needs to heal from. As much as he may love her, Silco doesn't push her to improve in any healthy way.
Seriously though when it comes to these people who immediately expect a romantic relationship between literally any 2 characters who appear on screen in the same scene simply because they exchange words really needs to be given a hug.
Very good video and you touched on some very good points. I've watched Georgia Daw as well and as much as I love her analysis, I fear she overlooks some of the points about an emotional abusive relationship that you cover so well. I myself didn't shed a tear for Silco... but I did cry because Jinx cried, after she had just admitted how she realised and accepted what Silco had done to her and Vi. It shows how difficult it is to walk away from a toxic relationship, especially one you build up after a traumatic event, isolated from everyone else. I'm reminded of several episodes from Law & Order who also discuss these topics, children torn from their families who form a bond with the very people responsible for the death or destruction of their families. Their trauma from losing their family makes them attach themselves onto the first person who shows them any affection and form a symbiotic (co-)dependant relationship with. In many episodes the care of these people for their 'children' is genuine, but their shamelessness in stating that they were better for the children than their actual families is genuine as well (kinda like how Silco mocked Vi for 'driving her sister away'). I've never seen anything so infuriating on television, it's why I hate Silco so much (wonderfully written though). Most of these children grew up with their trauma unresolved and committed crimes, some simply from unresolved trauma but others out of fear of losing their toxic relationship with their new 'parents'. Any threat had to be dealt with (like Jinx attacking Piltover cause Silco might think her weak). What was most painful is that they completely rejected their old families and stated that they were really their kidnappers son/daughter. Most of these families were torn apart by guilt for 'letting' someone take their child or sibling, so when they heard their loved one completely denounce him/her and embrace this new identity, they were destroyed. The most painful one was the story of a ten year old girl who was taking care of her 5-year old brother cause their mother was dying. Out in the playground her brother was grabbed by a woman who just lost a son and was looking for a replacement. The girl had just turned her back to get some ice cream and her brother was gone when she looked back. For the next 15 years she lived with that guilt and never smiled again as her family fell apart. Years later her brother was a pedophile arrested along with his 'mother', who was unapologetic and stated she gave her 'son' a better life than the sister ever could. When the detectives told the brother this, he freaked out and announced he was his 'mothers' son, the mere mention of his real family set of a near-psychotic reaction. The sister broke down, stating that her brother died years ago and she wasn't strong enough to face her brother. That's what I saw with Vi as well. Her guilt for failing Jinx (and her family) is in direct contrast to Silco's shamelessness in the destruction of her family.
You can love a character dynamic and not want to emulate it. Joker and Harley, Joker and Batman, Jaime and Cersei, Joel and Ellie, Jinx and VI, Guts and Griffith, Ido and Alita, Naruto and Sasuke, Eren and Mikasa come to mind. These relationships are fascinating and you cannot look away. The bonds are just that strong. So strong that all the suffering one inflicts on the other does not break them. But they should not be goals. Rather, you should use that vicariously to look for something better for yourself.
Completely agree. A problem I find is that in these relationships, especially parent and child, the victim's trauma is invalidated just because the abuser did not realize the harm that they were causing. But damage made aggainst someone emotional, mental, or physical is damage that still occurred and scars the victim whether the abuser realizes it or not. Trauma is still trauma and it needs healing which might be reconciliation or distance. Even those who could potentially reconcile to a healthier relationship might do better separating themselves. Just because you can or their is potential doesn't mean more harm than good is created in the long run. Plus, even if the abuser doesn't want to be abusive, or at least seen that way, it doesn't mean they didnt want something unhealthy from the relationship. Using jinx and silco as an example while I I think silco loved jinx he did have a goal for the relationship outside of that love. He projected himself on powder and wanted to change her just as he feels is right. He acts as if he wants powder to accept whole self but as the same time is telling her to ignore or lock aspects of herself away. He doesn't want to hurt her but he does want to change her, in order for that change to occur damage was done. This could happen in real life change, sex, a set image of a "perfect relationship/parter/son/daughter" in one's eyes, or an expectation of character (like thinking your kid is and should be just like you or grow up to be a doctor). All of these things are goals that abusers might want from the victim and while not wanting and to a degree not realizing the harm they cause still result in abuse in one form or another. Abuse is abuse. Trauma is trauma. Pain is pain. No matter the intentions or self image someone has it doesn't change what they have done.
I almost cry while listening to this video, because I have to agree with you on so many levels. But at the same time, I have to say something from the perspective of a person that has a really strained relationship with her father. Is Silco toxic? Yes, of course! But he also gives Jinx so much! So much care and love! I know that's not enough, but sometimes, you just want at least this. My father left us in a moment where my mother lost her father (my grandfather, which I was very close). He tries to maintain the relationship, but... it's not really working. And me and my brother have to watch how much care and attention he gives to his new family. And at the same time we have to deal with him still blaming us for strain in our relationship. So when I heard Silco calling Jinx perfect, I broke. I didn't care that he was abusive! At that moment, all I could care about is that Silco gave Jinx more love and understanding than my father did to me. That's why I call Silco a "good dad". I know he could be better, I know what he does is very toxic and unhealthy. But at the same time, I just can't say that he's a bad father when I see how much he trust Jinx, how much he cares about her and how much he wants to just know her. I know not all people are like this, but maybe some the people that call him a good dad, are just as starved for love and affection as I am.
Your perspective was very touching to listen to, thank you for sharing your story, I know that can’t be easy. I’ve never been in an abusive or manipulative relationship, but watching the show I always felt…. On edge about jinx and Silco. They love each other but there’s so much destruction in their love that I always wanted them to get away from each other. I thought the show did a great job of showing how toxic unconditional love can be (silco telling her she’s perfect when he should be helping her become better, for example), and also how control and isolation can stunt someone’s ability to grow (jinx being seven years older yet still acting like a little girl). It is so deeply concerning every time I see people talking about what a great dad he is and how they have such a healthy relationship when the reality is that their relationship is so poisoned and now the rod them even know it
THANK YOU. I've barely seen any commentary on this show outside of a few videos like yours, so I haven't seen people glorify their relationship... But I'm not at all surprised. Far too many people have unhealthy or at least very uninformed views of what a healthy relationship is, which colors and components it's made out of. I wish a lot more people challenged what they've learned throughout their life, especially in their childhood, by seeking out new knowledge and learning how to evaluate and understand what that new knowledge is actually saying. I'm saying this because it's easy to try to find a better replacement for one's current knowledge but instead slip further down destructive pathways if you haven't learned how to think critically about information presented to you. Back to the relationship, which I absolutely loathed. I hated every second that they were on screen together and wanted to see them separated. For context, I have faced at least 20 years of abuse throughout my life, of which 9 and 3 years respectively were being abused by two covert narcissists (please look up what Dr Ramani has to say about it if you're not familiar) in very close proximity. I have also been abused by overt narcissists. Silco's manipulative tactics were so obvious to me that it made me not trust anything he said. It felt like the motivation behind everything he said and did was to serve and benefit him and to shield himself from his own wounds. Silco is dealing with his emotions and trauma in such poor ways that he's just not capable of having a healthy relationship. He's trying to shield himself from feeling powerless, a feeling caused by his trauma, by clawing his way to power no matter what stands in his way or what damage he causes to reach a state of perceived safety. All of the good we see him do towards Jinx that you mention in this video is to me just a way to get what he wants. Jinx wouldn't stay or give him what he wants if all he did was treat her like shit. As for co-dependency, this is how I would describe it: if we picture a trauma as a cavity in our being, like a wound caused by something on our physical body, co-dependency makes sense. Say if a parent died when a child was young, and that child is not allowed to grieve, the wound of that parent is undealt with and as that child grows up, they might seek out something to fill that cavity to numb the pain. There are some people or relationships that fit so neatly into that cavity and we experience it as the wound being closed up and our skin being smooth again, like the person has healed us. But it's really just a way of keeping the pain inside. I think this is why Silco can not bear losing Jinx, and why he is sometimes acting loving, because he is attempting to close up his wound because he can not face the pain.
On the other hand Vi is a narc too. Maybe Ekko would be of help if she ever let him. We'll see in season 2. At least that is what showrunner said about season 2
this video stated everything i've always wanted to say about this relationship. i've seen it glorified way too much and it just makes me uncomfortable - i've literally seen people say silco is the best dad ever, which is way too far from the truth. this video perfectly captured the truth and everything that needs to be said about this; thank you for making it. another thing that kind of upset me was actually silco's final moments where he tells jinx she's perfect. i love jinx so, so much and she's my favorite character in any media at all - but even i have to disagree. i think that she's flawed and needs to reflect on her past life and accept everything that happened instead of pushing it away, burning it, and becoming an entirely new person that is the embodiment of all chaos. she struggles with change and letting go, and i think if silco was actually a genuinely good father, he would help her with that instead. he'd help her accept her past and get through it, or at least try; but instead, he looked at it as a blank canvas, and changed her to be someone he could easily manipulate and have full control over. jinx was extremely vulnerable in this last scene and much more susceptible to believe what silco says, which is what will make her redemption arc so difficult - if she even gets one at all. that's what i think, at least - i hope this kinda captured what you were going for?? if not i'm sorry, i'm not a trained professional either, this was just my take on it
This is fairly hard for me to word as the relationship shown pulled strings in a certain way, I simultaneously hated and liked it and felt it but it didn't make me uncomfortable. There were good parts buried in it, but so man it was overshadowed heavily by the damage that was done and actively being done. I feel like the worst thing that Silco did was the very first, instead of looking for Vi or dispelling the lashing out feelings she had towards them he latched onto it and kept her in that moment since. He never tried to help her in the situation he forced her into and took her from, he pushed her further into it and showed no remorse for doing so. Some of that may not have been something he would've done prior, he latched on the moment she showed and related it to his own trauma and tried to work with it has he had instead of taking a step back or watching how it hurt her. He avoided that Vi existed and it bit him in the ass. His further driving her into the moment in ways she could not handle got him shot as he tried to rectify the mistake of acting like there was no chance Vi would ever return. The more she stayed in the moment the more she wanted Vi back, as much as she recoiled from the hit. That aside... I've been in the situations more than I'd like to admit. From one sided forced dependency from my abusive father, to the manipulation from the rest of my family, to the codependency and manipulation between me and who's still a good friend and her now absent seven year ex. My parents, uncles, aunts, took part willingly and knowingly as that was how they were taught to raise someone from their parents, but me and my siblings and cousins have to actively recognize and pull back from acting out in a manipulative way. Part of me is paranoid the people that like to be around me is because I've manipulated them into being so unknowingly, leading to a lot of anxiety and tendency to self isolate which just makes the situation worse. I might be on from acting as I have and away from the manipulation but it's still there, which is quite concerning for Jinx' future in the series as much of a step that was made in the season 1 finally if they do stick to the grittiness as they had between the time skip. She has Vi, Vi has her and Caitlyn, and Silco is dead, but there's still a lot of progress to be made in regards to making that happen. How people see Silco and don't feel pissed at him, I don't know. At every step he couldn't put his self aside for her, even when it seems like he had. Saving Jinx, he made her the monster she saw herself as and despised. Up until a brief moment before the end, only to be shot in the foot as he tries to shoot Vi against everything Jinx has shown in that moment.
I absolutely loved this video! Thank you so much to bring up such a valid analogy between manipulative tactics, abusive relationships and what are the limits between love and abuse, comparing with a masteripece of the pop culture! I found your channel recently, but I'm already glad to see those themes gaining importance and validation on the internet! Again, thank you so much for your amazing videos! Keep up the great work🤩🙏
Here the thing about Silco and Jinx and abusve relationships. Most of the times its not one sided. One party loves the other and the other doesn't. Yes Silco did manipulate Jinx but the thing it is; yes it is manipulation but from Silco's POV he's telling her the truth. Silco thinks he and Jinx are going through the same thing and as such he thinks what worked for him will work for her, but Vi is not like Vander, because unlike Vander, Vi would never betray or abandon Jinx but Silco doesn't view it that way. But also "Loving Someone doesn't justify a person's actions." Which can be applied to Silco, Vander and other characters from other shows, movies and video games.
I have to say, it's a terrible idea to gloss over the fact that what Silco did to Jinx/Powder was in any way healthy. Their relationship was unhealthy, but there was something twisted and beautiful about their chemistry that couldn't be put into words. As you said, an absolute masterpiece, painted by blood. As for Silco being a "Good dad", it depends on what aspect you look at it from. ・He was always happy to help her out ・Doesn't treat the trauma she experienced like it is nothing (although this is because Silco understood this himself) ・He does his best to give Jinx an important role, giving her as many opportunities as her that could be recognised by others (I can go on and on but I think most of it is mentioned so yeah (￣▽￣)) Which I would say is definitely a quality of a caring and good parent (Personal opinion) The problem was that Silco wasn't familiar with raising children (quite obviously) and was highly anti-social. This leads him to unconsciously Isolate her because Silco has isolated himself, and unknowingly manipulates her when scared of losing her. After all, manipulating others was what he has been doing his entire life. What's even more heartbreaking is that Silco isn't completely "lying". It seemed like he genuinely believed Vi was going to abandon her, not to underestimate the fact that he doesn't know her well. Abusing people is easy, and this includes abusing yourself, and Silco has ended up doing both.
Wow! 🤯🤯🤯🤯it's mind blowing that some people considered Silco and Jinx relationship a NON toxic one!!!!!!!! you could see the manipulation and control from miles away!!!!!!! " it's us against them/ world" is one of the most toxic thing abusers use to isolate someone. Abuse happens also in the name of love using sweet words.
The problem isn't that Silco didn't love Powder, it's that he didn't know how to love. He saw himself in the girl, so he gave her everything he would have wanted when he was her age and ignored what she really needed.
Many people who grew up with out fathers or in hard situations, like my self, looked at this relation and could only see what they wanted. At first, I couldn’t see how toxic it was because the loving and supportive way Silco treated Jinx, not wanting to let her go. I couldn’t see that in keeping her so close, he was isolating her. I think the reason people hold this relationship so high in their own standard is becases If you haven’t had anything to compare it too or have had an unhealthy relationship with a parent, it looks amazing.
Frankly, I think lots of people were just happy Silco wasn't grooming and r*ping her. That's what I presumed was going to happen. Like, girl lost everyone and had an adult man take her in, and she didn't end up a trafficked sex worker? She's incredibly lucky.
Thank you for making this video. For your vulnerability and for using your experiences to illuminate what about this relationship is broken. Silco was a loving father. That doesn't mean that he was a healthy father or that he's a good role model for fathers in general. Don't get me wrong, all parents make mistakes, and we all do things that we wish we had done differently, and there's no one right way to raise a kid. That said, there are some definitely wrong things that parents sometimes do that make them abusers, even when they genuinely, tenderly love their children. After all, parents are the grown-ups.
When I met my wife I saw she had a very toxic ex. So the first thing I did was to let her understand my communication is NOT hostile. It means she does not need to read between lines, and what I say is not meant to hurt her. So when people say "I do not understand women" it is because they have not de-escalated the situation. I made her judge me not for what I say, but what I do. And I never promise anything, unless I am committed to fulfill that promise. I do not have time or energy to play mental games. And she learned that too. Mature love fixes problems talking like adults. Drama is for teenagers. Love is not an emotion, or eternal love will last 6 months. Love is not passion because people kill for passion. Love is a decision. Two people who could go separate ways anytime, decide to stay together because they are happier better people together. Codependence is the opposite, when "I love you" means "make me happy" A person who is not happy being alone, will not be happy in a relationship. A person who is happy living alone, may be happy in a relationship. This comes from a 1900s study in Germany, 1000 sampled every day during 10 years.
I think is still love, but it’s more of the fact that sometimes love alone isn’t enough, love is a powerful emotion but it doesn’t always end in a healthy relationship. In some cases, like it’s explained in the video, You think you are helping the other person and want the other person to be happy, but good intentions aren’t enough, and you end up doing the wrong thing without realizing it, because like you said, you can have a happy relationship only if you are already happy on your own, and i totally agree on that. I also totally agree that in communication should be key and very clear and direct at all times.
When people say Silco loves her unconditionally, I'm like - absolutely not. He loves Jinx unconditionally, but he hates Powder and will do anything to kill that part of her. Just like Vi doesn't love her unconditionally, she loves Powder unconditionally. Also, when he says "you're perfect", to me he does not choose between his life-long ambition and his daughter. By saying Jinx is perfect, he used his very last resource to create the Zaun he wants, because he knows Jinx is a perfect embodiment of that Zaun. So to the very end he used Jinx as his creation to achieve his goal, even at the price of his own death. I mean... if he really cared about the girl, he would've encourged her to make peace with Vi so that she has at least one person in her life. Instead, he condemns her to isolation just to achieve his goal. And I think he didn't say "Jinx is perfect" because he knew she has solidified as Jinx anyway, so it's - you're perfect.
I can't believe this is even a discussion. The writers have flat out stated they wrote their relationship to illicit uncomfortable feelings in the viewers.
Dude, you are awesome. THIS is extremely important. People don’t notice this relationship is screwed up because they have never been gaslit or recognized what gaslit really is. That’s why gaslighting is so effective! It’s hard to recognize and most people have never been taught how to recognize it. It should be something we should teach in school like taxes and how to rotate your tires or what groceries to buy and how to recognize a scam.
Thank you for making this- It vocalized a lot of thoughts I had based on experience beautifully and concisely. Hopefully it can help people recognize these things or at least change their perspective in some way.
Thank you for bringing up this topic! I was really bothered by people romanticizing their relationship and I didn't have anyone to talk to about this/who agreed with me.
I think this is the first video I've seen that summarizes my thoughts about this relationship so succinctly, most that I have seen tend to go to one end of the spectrum or the other, and this feels nuanced enough to actually get to the heart of the matter and really understand it. Thank you for the great video!
In my opinion, Silco was the best father he could be to Jinx. He did do all the things Vander did but from his own mountain of experience. Vander imparted his knowledge on life and how to deal with things based on his own experience. Silco did the same. The problem was that Silco is a jaded and ruthless man who knows how dirty things get. He expects it not to change unless violence is done. The title of episode 3 makes it clear what his ideology is. The real interesting thing about the two dad's are that they both want good things but go about it the wrong way. Vander wants peace but ends up with bitter tensions rising because nothing is changing. Silco wants independence but in the process makes the undercity into a den of debauchery and excess. Peace and independence is a good thing but separate they cause problems.
THIS I AGREE YOU PUT IT INTO WORDS!!! they're complicated characters and i love your analysis of them. as someone who was in jinx's position with my own silco i totally agree. this relationship is not goals at all
Wow, thank you so much for making this video. I've just stumbled upon it by complete accident and there's so much to say where to begin... First, I come from a broken home where physical abuse while present paled in comparison to the emotional abuse that took place. I also saw all of these things while watching the show, and it made my skin crawl because I've been in that position of complete and utter helplessness while remaining wholly dependent upon my abuser and unable to find any escape. As they say, better the evil you know than the one you don't. To this day I continue to struggle with feeling worthy of anything - chiefly love, happiness, and acceptance. I echo your sentiments that this is a pandora you want to keep in the box. To say it plainly, if anyone is crazy enough to consider attempting to replicate this please reconsider. The next thing I want to say is regarding the writing. I normally HATE what I consider "negative energy" movies and shows. This was the exception, but I couldn't put my finger on why. This video explained why in agonizing detail, and for that bravo - I really mean that. You helped me understand some of my own internal processing and realizations and I think I can now actually use this as an anecdote to point to which will help convey the insanely deep complexity of the abuse of my past. The reality is, mirroring my real life experience I think Silco and Jinx were actually doing the best they could with the cards they've been dealt. Still, that doesn't make it acceptable. This is the narrative that's so difficult to explain to people who have not been involved in this type of abuse. People can't seem to hold in their head that someone is both an abuser and probably still actually trying, somehow, to do the best they can. Finally I just want to say awesome content! This is the first video I've seen of yours but you have a subscriber for life. I loved your story telling pace, high attention to detail, and high production value. I'm surprised that your channel is as small as it is but I know it will grow quickly. I'm just happy to be here for the ride.
The bartender guy has a crush on jinx????????? I'm sorry????? Who suggested that????? HE IS LITERALLY SCARED, HE'S A VICTIM. Yeah, no. They're literally just glorifying abuse...
Thank you so much for this video Ive watched so many videos that mentioned/expanded on their relationship, but they all either praised or simply glossed over the abusive aspects, and its been pissing me off Ive (unfortunately, when i was younger) been on both sides of manipulative relationships, and i was very quick to pick up on the tactics portrayed in arcane (having used and had them used on me) and ive gotten so tired of having to explain to friends and acquaintances that no, this is very much Not a healthy relationship. Its so nice to see someone else go into such detail to show this. Not discounting how they love each other, but going into the good and the bad.
A person who's lovingly enabling your dysfunction isn't a good guy. He's just as broken and has found a broken way of being. And he (or she) will further your trauma. Do not confuse "creative" pain avoidance with being functional, over it or love. Healing is possible. Pain can be faced and processed. All in a healthy way, with a support group, in therapy. Please read this again and be careful out there!
Maybe you mentioned it and I didn't realize, but also all that thing Silco had about how it was him and Jinx against the world did contribuite to her isolation. He was always putting in her mind she would have no one besides him, no one she could trust, connect, be friends with, have a relationship. Everyone is against and betrays them. This mentallity certainly made her be lonely.
It shouldn’t need saying - and I genuinely thought it didn’t! - but their relationship is obviously unhealthy. I love well written complex relationships, and I loved this one too. But my god, some people actually can’t see the toxicity here? Either…. very good for them for having lived sheltered enough not to see red flags… or very dangerous for them.
You know, it's not exactly surprising giving the quality of the writing, but nonetheless ... it's fascinating to watch videos from Georgia, you, schnee, others, different takes on Arcane, you can agree or disagree on certain aspects, have your own opinions, strong opinions, drawing on experiences you made in your life. Yet, those are entirely fictional characters, this is a fantasy story, everything is made up. But the discussion is on such a high level, and it goes so deep and is so insightful. Mad respect to the writing team. This is the real achievement of Arcane. No other franchise (I hate having to use this word here) has sparked this, and they knocked this out of the park in the first season.
I agree that their relationship isn't healthy, but it is beautiful. It's the complexity and the love that shines through all the bad that gives it beauty, but Beauty isn't perfect. Silco does love Jinx and she loves him in return, but two broken people can't fix eachother. Silco didn't let raising Jinx turn him into a better person like it could have, instead he forges on and tries to preserve what he sees as a perfect imbodiment of Zaun. Jinx is a broken child, orphaned again and again, abandoned and belittled. she was already abused before he took her in and he didn't try to help her heal. Jinx was a product of abuse and neglect as well as love. Love is blind. first her parents, blinded by love, died for a better future for their children, then Vander is blind to the fact that love isn't all she needs. Jinx does have a beautiful relationship with Silco, and the love between them is one to be admired but it shouldn't overshadow the toxicity. I feel that if Silco and Vander hadn't turned against eachother than we could have seen a beautiful relationship where both girls would have had a loving father figure while also having an uncle figure to round out their growth. had the two men worked together after the failed rebellion I believe they could have changed their world and given the sisters the best childhood possible.
The good thing about Arcane is that it exposes behaviors, and in a way humanizes them. Criminology and mental issues are 2 different things. But bad writers often try to mix them. This show shows the human side of things. You see many unhealthy people, making bad decisions. But this is needed to create these characters. If you wanted a wholesome show, make Powder finish that sandwich in episode 1. The end.
I def wouldn't call it relationship goals, but I found myself crying a lot since I would also like a parent that said I was enough, that asked for my side first from me. and those parts are the parts that impacted me strongly and stuck with me not so much the weird parts. but that's a me thing honestly I'd love an AU or modern AU where Silco and Vander weren't affected by the war and just be some regular guys raising their daughters as dads and uncles. it'd be so cute ahhhhh
I think the saddest thing about their dynamic was how in the end, she was perfect to him no matter which decision she decided to make. And from his perspective but shooting him she made her choice and he accepted it. He didn't get angry or even express a feeling of betrayal, he just insured to her that he would have never given her up and that she was perfect in his eyes no matter which path she decided to take. It's fucking sad And while I agree with most of what you said here, especially as being someone who went through a very similar experience that you described and that this show actually entails except mine was actually far worse. Hell I would have taken silco as a father any day over mine and I mean that... That being said don't entirely agree that Silco isolated jinx though.. for a variety of reasons that are honestly too many to name. But from my point of view he didn't isolate her but she isolated herself on her own, we even see her do this years earlier after powder messed up the heist and is sitting under her bed alone messing with her little bombs. Now...We know that she's gone on missions, We know that she roams around and essentially does pretty much whatever she wants to a point. It's also pretty clear that she finds solace in working on her gadgets alone as well. That is shown to be by her doing not Silco. I think you make a few assumptions about things that happen in the times skip that have not been shown, particularly the part about ekko. I spent 13 years of my life in the very dynamic that you are talking about here. The isolation being probably the biggest one and I didn't see that projected onto jinx by silco at all. I would argue that she had too much free reign. After stealing the gemstone one of the things Marcus says to him and his office is "she took things too far this time." Which tells us that this isn't the first time that Jinx has gone around causing problems for topside in some form, but that this particular instance was crossing a line. He either didn't have consequences set in place for her at all or he was inconsistent. Kind of like how he attempted to scold her for doing what she did in episode 4 and then when he realizes she's not listening to him he takes away her pen like a parent would take away a toy from a child. All that being said though, great video Ps- One little thing I forgot to comment on. Just wanted to say that your statement talking about how you're tired of hearing people say that Jinx has friends and we just haven't seen them yet... I had to bring it to you but people aren't pulling this out of their ass. This is something that's already been confirmed by one of the writers of the show Amanda Overton. twitter.com/leeloo104/status/1469864409832980483?t=32PCaiYIXZCrCh3nahYFuA&s=19 Someone asked if Jinx could have a friend. She replied: "Jinx has friends. Who they are has to stay a mystery for now." So yes she does have friends. Just because we have not met them does not mean they do not already exist in the show during the time it takes place There are two very likely possible options of who these friends might be one of which is the same species as Heimerdinger. But we will see.
I like this. Maybe her friend is going to be Ziggs just based on the LoL comic. Also, I agree, I think Silco was a controlling but also too indulgent with Jinx that she did not have too much consequences to her actions from Silco. She seemed outright excited that she had 12 enforcers killed (due to past prejudice maybe), and even bored when she was being reprimanded by Silco. Like she knew that she could placate Silco with the hextech loot she stole.
@@redunkulous9901 It's not so much that she was laughing or excited for the fact that she killed enforcers but more so that another one of her traps worked and they fell for it and her plan worked accordingly. Meanwhile succeeding in retrieving the gemstone. And though Jinx's goals are generally more personal she knows that her surrogate Father's ultimate goals are for the independence of zaun and she knows that hextech is a weapon ultimately, and she was smart enough to lay out a plan to infiltrate the lab and steal it along with all the plans and she did this for him. She's a clever booger sometimes too much for her I'm good lol I think her happiness after she obtained the gem also had to do with the fact that she was proud that she was able to be helpful to her new family that was silco. Ultimately, she just wants other people to love and she wants to be able to help the people that she loves. Much like how she was when she was a kid. It's strange how the girl can both be damaging to silko's cause but also be useful for at the same time lol Personally...after everything that piltover has done to the undercity and even her own life I didn't feel bad for a single one of those enforcers that were killed but that's just me. People cant expect folk to just keep taking it over and over for decades and the other side not expect retaliation eventually. As far as what you said about what friend she might have, I think ziggs is the one. There is another girl who is also a tinkerer but I forgot her name.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
They were 2 broken people who found a brief solace in their father/daughter-like relationship. Silco did his very best and his best was horrible.
I feel like saying 'you're perfect' at the end, really sums up how he didn't know what he was doing. Obviously, he was trying to give her validation, but instead of saying something along the lines of 'you're enough' he says 'you're perfect'. No one is perfect, it is good to strife for your best, but being raised to believe you are perfect, that you have no short comings, that every mistake you made doesn't matter because you're perfect, how could you make a mistake, thus losing a sense of morals, that is not healthy.
It's very sad that his horrible best was better than what she could get elsewhere. Apart from maybe Vi. But Vi never accepted her as she was and never understood her trauma.
yes and no. what you said is asically " he tried his best to be a good father but his best was horrible" and that is a fucked up statement to say. Is obvious that Silko cared about Jinx and loved her, but he even USED HER. he not only loved her, BUT HE NEEDED JINX. He didn't give a fuck about Powder, he wanted Jinx. That's why people are fucked up to idolize thi Father-Daughter relashionship cuz is toxic asf.
Silko needed Jinx, she was usefull for his plan, but at the same time he loved her. If he was the best father, he would never let powder do what she did
@@termindterguta3514 even the voice actor idolizes their relationship. Sad
@@termindterguta3514 You're forgetting how Jinx messed up his plans. Literally their first scene together after the timeskip was when she messed up on a job. Sevika even stated how she was just a problem. No one on Silco's team likes Jinx because she keeps screwing things up and they even start losing respect for Silco because he still keeps her around. He legit could have gave her up to Piltover but couldn't because he loves her more than Zaun and he never hated her for that.
Also you know how Jinx wants to always be seen as useful to people she loves? Remember the last time she wasn't taken on a mission by someone she loves? She had a full blown breakdown. She *hates* rejection. She *hates* being weak. I bet she even asked Silco to give her missions to go on because she thinks she's ready to take them as she's strong.
I think this is why Silco trusts her to do things like missions, his eye medicine as a way of showing her that he trusts her. Yeah, taking your insecure kid on missions as a way to show her that you trust her isn't good but that's what the original comment meant by his best for Jinx isn't good. But hey, this is Zaun. Kids don't really get to be kids.
As a writer myself, I absolutely *adore* Silco and Jinx's relationship--not because I think it's a good, wholesome, father/daughter dynamic, but because it's so complex and nuanced. Yes Silco loves Jinx unconditionally and wholeheartedly, yes Jinx loves and trusts Silco as much as she's capable of, but it is *absolutely* poisonous to both of them. It's toxic and abusive and *bad*, but that doesn't mean it's *not* loving--that's what makes it so fascinating. It's so complex and so genuinely, *tragically* human. I think the relationship is not praiseworthy in the sense that it's a good, healthy dynamic, but in the sense that it's a real and genuine portrayal of how these toxic relationships function, because oftentimes there *is* genuine love in the relationship. I know my mother loves me, but she did a lot of damage without meaning to because of her own traumas and her own toxic traits, and I've seen dozens of other people comment similar sentiments. It's absolutely *not* a relationship anyone should aspire to in real life whatsoever, but as a writer I can only hope to bring as much nuance into my own characters and their relationships.
Rightly or wrongly (but definitely human), he did not love her unconditionally. Otherwise he wouldn't have fought so hard against her being "Powder". That is a condition (at least in my eyes) but yeah I agree with you with everything else.
You've summed it up beautifully. I truly wonder if sometimes people who stan their relationship and just say something as simplistic as "I
When I first watched the show, I thought what everyone else thought. “He’s the best father he could be in the set environment” or “He’s trying his best but his best was horrible, but he loves Jinx nonetheless”… but really…at the end of the show when he says “I never would’ve given you to them…not for anything” the puzzle pieces started connecting…He’s a codependent, traumatized person who bonded with a person just as, if not more, traumatized as him and opened himself up in many vulnerable ways (with his emotions, the shimmer injections, etc.), which allows him to express his emotions in some form and gives him a sense of safety, forgetting Jinx is a child… he’s a person who’s had an such a big traumatic experience with abandonment and to avoid a similar experience he will grasp onto anything and do anything to make it stay the way things are…and then it hit me: *“Of course he wouldn’t give her up..How could he?”*
Silco was eventually so desperate for that emotional connection that once he’d gotten a sense of it, he’d be willing to sacrifice *anything* for it. This included the loyalty of his crew, the respect of his inferiors and attainable Nation of Zaun he fought for his entire life! And these examples go to show how deeply traumatized Silco is. That pain and betrayal really did “eat him from the inside out”. And although he’s a hardened kingpin, in his relationship with Jinx, it really shows how broken and twisted he is, no matter how tough or intimidating he displayed himself to be. Because when push came to shove, he was still a human being.
I never thought Chuck had a crush on jinx or liked her or anything like that. I thought he was just scared because of the awful stories he probably heard about her.
Lol, me too. I was surprised to hear that some people saw it in a totally different light.
I saw it as Jinx terror-flirting with Chuck. Chuck was of course scared as hell of her.
Therum, actually.
Chuck? Crush? Poor guy was scared to death of Jinx and he has no way to avoid her poor guy
His name isn’t even chuck 💀
When people say that silco is a “good dad” it drives me nuts. Did he try to take care of her? Yes. Did he love her from the bottom of his heart? Yes. Did he want her to be happy? Absolutely. But he was still abusive and he didn’t express any of these traits in a healthy manner. The relationship is beautifully depicted, but that doesn’t make it healthy.
Love her from the bottom of his heart? No. His love was absolutely conditional. If someone is not useful to his cause he gets rid of them. That would definitely include jinx. The only person he may have loved that much was Vander.
@@ongoingsky9347 Ahh, you raise an interesting point. I think that throughout the show (more towards the beginning) his love/affection to her was seen to be conditional, and it certainly started out that way (no question), but I think it turned into a genuine fatherly/unconditional love -- which Silco didn't expect either. E.g.) with how he was talking about how daughters are undoing, and how he was never going to give her to them afterall -- he ultimately realizes that he loves/puts her above everything else. Just my take though!
@@ongoingsky9347his love was undeniably unconditional at the end. He was going to give up everything he worked for his entire life for her. You can truly love someone but love alone isn’t enough sadly...
@@ongoingsky9347 You are ignoring the multiple times she messed up and he did not once toss her aside, even in those moments allowing her to handle a sharp object next to him. His love for her was unconditional.
@@ongoingsky9347 “The topsiders offered me everything. Independence, a seat at the table. All in return for you (Jinx). They can all burn…I never would have given you (Jinx) to them. Not for anything” - Silco in episode 9.
If that doesn’t say unconditional love, idk what does.
I saw the title and automatically said "YES! THANK YOU!!" Even before I watched the show I saw ppl glorifying their father-daughter relationship but when I watched it I was like "sure they love each other, but this is toxic af"
Saaaame.
Yes. Silco tried, but failed. The best anyone can say their relationship is simply failed. He tried to help Jinx, but never considered Powder.
It's not a healthy relationship at all, but there is a tragic beauty about it too that makes it fascinating to watch. I liked the point about 'love not always being enough' and how it can be weaponised to do harm, or cause people to act selfishly. But that also doesn't make the love not real. It's why Silco's dying words make a lot of people feel so much, despite his character, because it feels like a pure, sincere moment amongst all the others that are layered by toxicity.
As someone who grew up in an abusive household you absolutely nailed everything I took away from the Silco and Jinx relationship. I felt neither happy nor upset, but instead a deeply emotional and sad understanding of it. I'd like to add that Silco also isolated himself from others emotionally, as most often seen when dealing with Sevika whom was trying in her own way to be his friend as much as an underling, fortifying the co in the codependence. They genuinely loved each other, but to the exclusion of everyone else.
On a side note: Regarding the 'Chuck' relationship. If you stop frame on his face and compare it to the episode one street brawl, you'll see that he's the kid that chased her and ended up getting glitter bombed, making the prank on him as an adult all the more meaningful. He was genuinely terrified of her dealing retribution, and I'm reasonably sure she'd kept that ball rolling over the years just to mess with him.
"Guns for Hire," the song that plays as Jinx lights the flare for Vi to find her, is literally about Silco's need for control and his tendency to manipulate his relationships to achieve his goals. And when his control falters, everything he has built is at risk of crumbling down, and he only has himself to blame.
He did love Jinx, but his manipulation of her is undeniable. Sometimes telling someone they are perfect is the absolute worst thing you can say to them when they need serious help.
100% agree that Silco "showed signs and glimpses of being a wonderful father." The seeds/potential of something good were there. That's why the relationship dynamic is so compelling. We want to see how the universal need for love/acceptance unfolds. How love can manifest/express itself in different (even terrible & toxic) ways. Like a beautiful trainwreck you can't take your eyes off of.
Also: great point that love is an emotion. And like any other emotion, it can be blinding & destructive in excess.
My impression is some people are desperate to hear the words "You're perfect" and be shown love, even if that love is utterly toxic.
tru, and we crave found-family parental relationships like in The Owl House (Eda & Luz), Marvel(Tony & Peter), and MHA (Literally Deku & another adult figure). We crave that, and end up projecting
@@xmoonilyx2977 tis a symptom of the modern era of fatherlessness.
@@theshambler6814 or lack of stable parental figures
Yes, that's the thing. It's kind of hard for a lot of people who had worse parents to see Silco as bad and abusive when they have parents who would never show even Silco's level of care and love and acceptance, who would never say to their child even when they genuinely did an amazing job that they were perfect. He gives Jinx something many people have absolutely have missed out on and crave. Yes, Silco's not a great healthy dad.. however that 'you're perfect' after a lethal devastating mistake by her? Powerful even to those of us with good parents, let alone those without.
@@Graid you… you get me
To be honest I'm a little shocked that anyone can look at this relationship and come away thinking it was entirely healthy or admirable. While Powder may have shown signs of instability even before Silco got his hands on her, I truly don't think she would have inevitably become Jinx without his toxic influence. And I really don't know how you can argue that a good responsible parent would encourage their child to become a weapon for their cause like that. Like you've pointed out there's a lot of complexity to this this relationship, and loving someone is not the same as treating them in a way that's healthy. I know my mom loves me, but she still did some incredibly damaging things when I was growing up so it's been clear to me for a long time that love and unhealthy behavior are not mutually exclusive. I would sincerely hope anyone who missed the red flags between Jinx and Silco do some research and reevaluate their definition of a healthy relationship for their own sake.
Thank you for your comment and for sharing your experiences
If I'm living in a hellhole like the undercity where revolution is the only way to prevent absolute atrocities on a daily basis, you fucking bet I'd teach my kids how to fight. This is a place where cops can walk up to you without evidence and throw you through windows without consequence, where kids are crippled by toxic fumes, where there is no law or hope for the future, where even the kids of the de facto leader have to steal in order to not go hungry.
Takes like these boggle my mind honestly. Like yeah, training your kid to become a weapon is obviously bad in a first world paradise, but in the world of Arcane it's downright irresponsible not to do it.
I would encourage you to compare Vi/Vander and Silco/Jinx. One was taught how to fight and how to lead. As well as the lessons of how to grow, responsibility, and how to care for others. While the was driven to isolation and mania. It's not a question of "it's bad to train someone to fight." That is an incredibly misleadimg strawman arguement that no one made.
@@AFlyingWalrus The guy I was responding to literally made that argument, I'm not attacking a strawman.
Besides, you're 100% wrong on this. Vi wasn't taught to fight, she was taught the exact opposite. She was taught to lie down and take the abuse, because fighting would mean losing things precious to her in the process. It's not a bad lesson if you aren't unfortunate enough to be born in the undercity.
Then my question to you is, who taught Vi to fight in the exact same way and style as Vander? To stand up for those around you, even at a great cost to yourself. Please critically think about the context of stories before making accusations on people.
From your comments, you appear to be more interested in attacks than discussions, but I will not go down to that level. Have a good day.
I think the Silco and Jinx relationship can be summarized pretty neatly; You can try your best, and still fail. You can mean well for someone and do wrong by them. Silco *tried* and truly meant to *well by Jinx*, in the spiritual sense that speaks well of Silco' transformation as a person who worked only for his life's goal and ended up sacrificing that goal for someone else, but attempting to do well, and meaning well, does not mean you actually DID well.
He tried, and he failed. As painful as that is.
I find it really sad how he projects his relationship with Vander onto Jinx’s relationship with Vi, because he thinks they’re the same. But it’s also really frustrating to watch because he’s corrupted their dynamic and lets Jinx’s insecurities fester overtime without trying to help her properly heal, just as he never did.
That's an interesting point. Silco lived for so long fueled by revenge on Vander, that when he lost that he lost a part of himself that he then tried to transfer unfairly onto Jinx.
@@AFlyingWalrus And we see it was all a lie, because all it took was for Jinx to see Vi ONCE, and she essentially became that little girl again. There was NO deepseeded dislike for Vi like there was with Silco and Vander. Just Silco's projection of his own trauma.
@@lockekappa500 But that wasn't the case for Silco either? Silco didn't hate Vander. He lost that hate long ago. All he had left was a feeling of betrayal and not being able to understand why Vander betrayed him.
@@govind.m86 I mean, he DID hate him, for a long time. He even admits to it. But like many things, it subsided and he got over it. But I feel like he still projected his initial conflict with Vander on Powder, despite the fact that in actuality it was all a misunderstanding. Yet Silco defaulted to leading Powder down the same path he went down.
@@lockekappa500 Yeah so we agree he wasn't driven by hate. He attacks Vander because he needs him gone to take over Zaun. It's a very rational decision.
And what misunderstanding? Vi did betray Powder. She smacked her, called her a Jinx and left her there crying while Powder ardently begged her to not leave. These are things that Vi chose to do and coming back wasn't going to change that. All that talk about family always having each other's backs; Powder not being a problem; Wanting Powder to stay behind because it was too dangerous. All of that ended up being lies once Vi said she left her behind because she was a Jinx.
That's what Jinx referred to when she said "You aren't lying to me? Not again."
Wanting to reconcile doesn't remove the past. Even Silco was ready to reconcile with Vander despite Vander having attempted murder and Silco not having done anything in retaliation yet.
10:33 - what are people thinking saying she has friends, he literally tells her "everyone else betrays us" so she thinks she can trust nobody else but him
I really appreciate your willingness to share, even if only vaguely, your experiences with toxicity in your relationship. It’s never easy to expose something so personal or challenging, and it takes a lot of guts.
As for Jynx and Silco, I’m with you in my concerns regarding how some people idealize this father-daughter relationship. Their codependency is very clearly on display and while their love for one another seems genuine, that doesn’t make the ways in which they express it healthy. In many ways, these two had been ruined by their prior experiences, left broken to such an extent that their expressions of love were bound to be tainted. They are both victims in that sense, becoming victimizers because that’s what they understand.
If Jinx is the “perfect” embodiment of the Zaun that Silco was striving for, that’s some really damning poetry, given what Silco turned the undercity into during the timeskip.
I was primed from the moment act 1 ended to believe that Silco would be controlling and manipulative of Powder while also making her depend on him for human connection. I didn’t realize that Silco actually cared about Jinx until the gramophone scene, of all moments. There was something so unexpectedly commonplace about that moment, in an uncommon location between uncommon people, and I was suddenly forced to realize that there was more going on than what I was letting myself see.
…also who the hell thought the scene with her at the bar was flirtatious? “Chuck” was obviously unnerved and she was obviously trying to unnerve him. He’s literally standing as physically far away from her as he can while still handing her the drink. What? Also she’s like, 14?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic.
not disagreeing, just wanna point out that Jinx is more likely 16-17. She was ab 7-8 at the end of Act III, and based on how they age, the time skip seems to be ab 7 years
@@Nimblescape ...while I'm fairly certain Jinx is older than 14, your math is a bit off there...
@@Nimblescape her age hasn't officially been confirmed but it's been said by the writers that she is an adult
@@noconsequence4486 key word, "about", maybe a better term wouldve been approximately since we don't have fully confirmed ages and time skip duration.
@@azul.a That's what I mean. They keep her age relatively ambiguous beyond being about 16-18
Edit: I honestly appreciate that they did so tho, as it deters people from sexualizing her (especially since Jinx in the game is very much suppose to be the "sexy manic pixie" trope) and instead actually focusing on her character
This is an incredible break down of the abuse in this relationship. Thank you for your insights with this
Silco and Jinx are amazing characters because of how broken they are
And for each other, unknowingly, they were the worst for each other while feeling like they were exactly what they needed.
No. Silco wanted Jinx. Jinx always wanted to be with Vi. Jinx is only with Silco because Silco kept her isolated and kept telling her "everyone betrays us". Jinx wouldn't be that broken if Silco wasn't actively working to keep her broken. Until his last breath.
@Seyha Leonhartz Silco didn't want anything from or about a child. Powder quite litterally fell into his lap and he took advantage of that yes, but Powder was already in position for that downward spiral on her own, Silco just sped up the process.
Powder already had massive emotional break downs before Silco, aka when she reacted violently to Vi telling her she couldn't come.
Yes Powder wanted to be with Vi, but ultimately she wanted to be with someone who wanted her back, and Silco gave that to her. Powder was already broken before Silco.
Silco never wanted Powder, he wanted Jinx. But he didn't make her, technically neither did Vi despite what Jinx says. Jinx was already a possibility within Powder, Vi just kept her afloat.
@@mrgreenpickuptruck oh god here we go.
Jinx made Silco human, while Silco made Jinx a monster. Jinx wants Vi so she can be human but Silco prevents that.
So to say "they were the worst for each other while feeling like they were exactly what they needed" is false. Jinx is what Silco needs to heal, but Silco is NOT what Jinx needs. To heal, Jinx needs Vi period.
@@rustygear447 I didn't say they FIXED anything
I said that Jinx wanted to be wanted and Silco gave her that
And Silco needed control but he let go of it for Jinx
It was not healthy and I in no way insinuated that
And in fact I said that Powder/Jinx made Jinx, and never said anything about Silco being a good father or being "human"
Powder was broken
Silco was broken
Two broken people didn't fix each other
But the position they were in felt like it did to THEM, not us the audience
@@rustygear447
...they never said that Jinx needed Silco, though?
They implied the opposite, in fact.
I find the section about isolation to be so powerful in describing their relationship. The way Silco was trying to kill Vi to regain control over Jinx is a really good example of what you said.
This type of cautionary tale is a definitely uncomfortable, but it is needed. It resonates with me a lot. I am fortunate enough now to be in a better place and in a healthy, loving relationship, as well as many awesome friendships!!!! For anyone out there going through a toxic relationship with a family member like I have, romantic, or any other type, I promise you, it does get better.
Great analysis. They really captured so much nuance in this relationship. It was at once sweet and loving, and toxic and abusive. It was really hard to watch because of that fine line they walked so well.
Okay here I go:
Silco and Jinx's relationship is something very tragic not because I see Silco's an abuser but because his own trauma prevents him from being the healthiest person to her. Really, I think the only parent in the show who I'd describe as "loves their kid but def didn't show it well" is Ambessa with her relationship with Mel.
He already exhibits good dad behavior: being patient, loving, accepting, attempting to help her the way he can. She can talk to him about any problem she has without fear of being shunned! I have a much healthier relationship with my parents but even I am sometimes afraid to tell them my problems.
But he also passes down his toxic world views down to her because he can't move on from his trauma (Thanks Vander!). He tells Jinx that everyone will betray them not because he's a lying piece of shit who wants to isolate her so that she'll only depend on him BUT because he's broken man twisted by the world who truly believes in what he says. His closest friend betrayed him, it's no wonder he believes everyone else will. It's his attempt of *protecting* her. Besides this isn't a world where everyone-is-your-friend-you're-safe-here, this is a world dog-eat-dog-watch-your-back
In any case, Jinx seems to have freedom. She goes to places by herself (the Arcade and the place where she was when she lit the flare). Silco also does send her on missions with others (see ep 4)
He tries to kill Vi, which is very very yikes, but he didn't come at it in a way "This is important to Jinx so I have to ruin it for her." He does it because of he's *scared* of losing her. The one person he loves.
The whole baptism scene is his own way of therapy, it's basically him telling her "My daughter, in this river where I became the man I am today, is the one I want you to drown Powder, the name of the past that haunts you so very much. I want you to be brave, to be strong and to never let those demons hold you any longer." And it did work pretty well before she heard that Vi was back. We see her after the baptism being all happy and solving the hexgem, she very willing to talk to other people (see Chuck) . Yes, she's suffering from actual mental illnesses but Silco doesn't have the knowledge we have, it's unfair to judge him with our standards. You can't get mad at a monkey for not fixing your car if you had not taught it to hold a wrench!
He lies to Jinx about Vi being there for the crystal : Though you CAN argue that he truly believes Vi isn't a good sister, which is what I believe due to him thinking Vander and Vi are the same and his major trust issues. The thing is, the intention hasn't changed, he's fucking terrified of her leaving him. He's went through being abandoned once already, he doesn't want to deal with that agonizing pain again.
I do believe if therapy existed and Silco was able to get help (and wasn't a drug kingpin lmao, which is really why he allows Jinx to build bombs and kill people because if he's already committing crimes, why shouldn't she?), he would've been a really great dad.
But for a world which is very unhealthy, has no way for someone to properly go address their traumas, I think Silco did the best he could. Sometimes it was right and sometimes it was wrong. It's complex like everything else in Arcane.
That's the real tragedy with these two. They're very broken by the people they loved and the world they lived in.
To add to your points; it's why I made this video, beacuse it is complicated and not something to be glorified.
Thank you for your thoughts
@@n0bleonline222 thanks :)
@@AFlyingWalrus yes I so strongly agree
@@kurtri8649 I agree
can't put it better
I mentioned all of this to my sister and it broke her paradigm of their relationship so hard. I love both of these two and i think they have a genuinely loving relationship. But Silco was a damaged and broken man warped by his ideals and beliefs and all of that seeped into how he brought Jinx up. I dont think any of it was ever intentional. But sometimes thats the worst kind of abuse because it's not obvious and it is unfortunately the most common.
What you said in the beginning - that abuse should not be written for laughs - made me think. That also applies to Sheldon Cooper in 'the big bang theory' right? Because you're right. I'm an abuse victim myself, experienced all kinds of toxic behavior towards me with LOTS of gaslighting and manipulation and when I watched big bang for the first time I didn't find it funny, just uncomfortable and a little triggering.
My friends didn't understand me at all, they loved the show and couldn't see where I was coming from.
I found this video after season 2 just before act 3 just in anticipation, but what you said about emotional abuse. It does sound weird to other people. I was in such a relationship for 10 years. And people couldn't understand why I didn't leave him. And I genuinely thought he was telling the truth all the time. He made me feel like I was insane a lot of the time if I actually confronted him about anything. I questioned myself and my memories like you said. It's kind of comforting to hear someone else say it because everyone else in my life just thinks I was a pushover, like I was weak, but my head was messed up in a way that's really hard to describe. So this video being 2 years old, you might not see this, but thanks.
I find it interesting that people think the bar scene between jinx and chuck is in anyway a flirtatious conversation. I always saw chuck's discomfort coming from the fact that he was talking to a very unpredictable girl that had guns and explosives and would use them at the drop of a hat for no reason. I think he acts the way he does because he has no idea what could trigger her and is just trying to keep himself alive in the scene. He is just super nervous and jittery.
I'm so happy I'm not the only who finds this relationship as cautionary rather than romanticising it. I grew up with a mother who often gaslit and manipulated me and my siblings into believing that no one loved us. She even went so far as to make us believe that our dead father was abusive and only beat me and my siblings. She isolated us from the rest of our family, when they loved us and had been fighting to get us away from her. She neglected us to the point where I had to step up and raise my siblings. But she "loved us" so no harm no foul right? I'm surprised I haven't seen this till now. Two years later, I watched the shit out of everything on this franchise. So thanks a lot for making this video. I love these two characters so much, but it's not a relationship people should emulate.
Years of therapy and a thousand dollars worth of self help books haven’t explained relationships like this as well as you have. Please keep doing what you’re doing, your voice is needed in our world.
Thank for making this video to shed light on how toxic relationships work. I'm really horrified that so many glorify their relationship. It's so unhealthy and abusive, and people don't read between the lines. Instead of "Silco accepted a part of her that Vi never did and his love was pure", it should be that Silco would have killed her like he did her family on the spot if Jinx didn't remind him of herself when she reached out to him for comfort. The relationship was born from toxicity so how can it be seen as anything but unhealthy, really?
I’m a male in my 20’s and this video has almost brought me to tears multiple times. This video resonates with from the show and from your own stories. This has made me realize my own faults in my last relationship. Throughout this show and video it made me really think about my relationship and I see jinx and Silco as who I was on different occasions and different times throughout the relationships. I won’t go into to much detail but holy f*ck I’m messed up right now but I think in a good way.
The power of good art/storytelling! Kudos for allowing yourself to feel the discomfort of self-reflection
I feel like Silco genuinely loved Jinx and could’ve been a great father if the circumstances were better. His biggest mistake was comparing powder to himself. They had both been betrayed by someone very close to them, Vander for Silco and Vi for Powder. But the circumstances were different. For one Powder probably had a closer relationship to Vi than Silco had to Vander. While Silco was a grown adult when Vander betrayed him, Powder was child and probably thought of Vi as a surrogate mother as well as a sister. Also the guilt that powder felt as well. Silco blames the deaths of the people who died in the Zaunian revolution on Piltover while Powder blames herself for Milo and Claggor’s deaths and she is still haunted by them. He tried to teach her to grow out of the pain the same way he did. By moving further. By getting ever closer to his goals but that wasn’t gonna work for Powder.
Man, I'm speechless. idk what to say because I feel like everything you said is exactly what I felt. Before this I didn't really know how to describe their relationship except saying, "The sad thing is he really did love her, and she really did love him." And that is the exact sentiment you showed. That yes, they did love each other, but not every way that they expressed their love was healthy. The control they both wanted to have was too destructive for either of them to make it out on top. And because of their individual trauma, neither was given a healthy way to overcome it, and instead continued to worsen it (either intentionally or not).
Which is why it drove me nuts seeing ppl say it was healthy, because I could never really explain why I felt it wasn't. I'd just motion at the screen and be like "What about this is healthy??" while Jinx is stabbing Silco with his eyedrops or Silco is lowering her into the river while saying she needs to let that anger/trauma fester to become Jinx. Yes there were aspects of the relationship that were sweet, like Jinx's art and Silco feeling relaxed around her, but that doesn't change the fact they have insane negative effects on each other.
Thank you for the wonderful comment
Everything you said here was true, but you got one thing wrong he didn't tell her to let her anger and trauma Fester he told her to let it die so she could move on and not let the fear of pain control her.
He actually doesn't want her to suffer from it.
I've personally faced almost every kind of abuse there is, so when you were going to talk about it and you got that lump in your throat, I FELT THAT. It's a raw feeling, an emotion that truly has no conceptual basis or discernable root. It physically takes a hold on you, that feeling in your throat, and when other people bring up their pain and they feel it, it's the only way you know you can relate. That awful, horrible, throat feeling. I hear you.
Villains are typically personifications of things loathed, such as greed or hate or lust. REAL people, villains or heroes, have actual PERSONALITIES... and all the strengths AND weaknesses thereof. The success of Silco and Jinx as villains is that they do not exist to be villainous. They are crafted to be like REAL people who happen to do horrible things. Like REAL people, they have hopes and dreams too. They love and are loved.
Honestly have no idea how anyone could look at the scene with Chuck and think either of them were flirting anywhere there (then again it comes from the same people that seriously argue Vi flirts with Jayce so I guess I shouldn't be shocked).
Chuck was clearly terrified of her and Jinx new that and, in a way, tormented him for information before making him think he was going to die. Oh yeah. So flirty.
They’re mistaking fear for attraction and that says a lot about them…
I’m sorry, your comment is really good but the first thing I thought of was “it’s Thieram” poor guy hahaha
Flirty in a murderous suicidal way
@@def3ndr887 what??? Jinx was clearly asking him questions because she was fishing for information.
Like it’s not even his name
I agree with your points, and I especially respect and understand the added personal experience you bring to this discussion. Jinx and Silco’s dynamic is not a healthy one; it’s toxic and rooted in trauma and codependency. However, I think a viewer can still admire and enjoy viewing this relationship while simultaneously admitting that it isn’t healthy or something to aspire to in reality.
In my opinion, Jinx and Silco’s relationship is a tragic one, but to some extent, a beautiful one too. I think what sets their dynamic apart from, say, Mother Gothel and Rapunzel’s dynamic in Tangled, is that both parties are attached to one another and love each other dearly. Mother Gothel is intentionally and unapologetically abusive. She gaslights and isolates Rapunzel knowing full well what she’s doing, but continues to do it because she cares more about Rapunzel’s hair than Rapunzel herself. Rapunzel is nothing but an asset to her, an extension of her own greed, and it’s a hindrance to Gothel that, in order to reap the benefits of Rapunzel’s magic hair, she is forced to endure her constant presence as a daughter. This is not the situation with Silco and Jinx.
Silco shows unconditional love for Jinx, and it could be argued that he accepts and embraces who she is more than Vi ever did. Jinx is able to grow into someone capable of defending herself, capable of making her inventions work the way she wants them to, and she gains a confidence that she never had as Powder.
Of course, the obvious drawback to this is that Jinx is unhappy and unwell. The only other person in her life that she cares about is Silco, and you’re correct in your point about him purposefully isolating her. She suffers from debilitating mental illness, and her self destructive flaws are only encouraged and praised by Silco because he values the chaos and monster within her. Like it or not, Jinx is his perfect weapon. She embodies the chaos of Zaun that he never could. And yet, by the end, as soon as everything he’s ever wanted is within his grasp, he gives up everything for her. He doesn’t do this out of any kind of benefit to himself-quite the opposite. Jinx is a detriment to him and his success with Zaun, and he knows it. She’s a detriment to him because she has become something he values more than his nation, and that was something he never expected.
I don’t think Silco manipulates Jinx intentionally, or out of any conscious malice. He manipulates her because he’s terrified to lose her, not understanding that love is about valuing the other person’s free will and independence. Whether he admits it or not, he’s still traumatized by Vander’s betrayal, and he projects all of that trauma onto Jinx as a sort of catharsis and validation for himself, and for her. He tells her, “Everyone betrays us,” not because he’s lying to get her to obey him, but because he believes that it’s true. Now that he believes he’s found the one person in the world who understands him more than anyone, who he can trust whole heartedly, he’s willing to do anything to keep her, even if that means lying to her about Vi’s supposed intentions. He hates Vi, not only because she hurt Jinx, but because he projects his hatred of Vander onto her AND she is the one person who could potentially take Jinx away from him.
I think some of us have this fantasy of being loved unconditionally by someone else. Where all our flaws, even the most horrendous and chaotic ones, are excused and forgiven with no hesitation. Where if we were ever in any kind of danger, this person would be willing to rip the world apart to save us. I think the reason people are so attached to Jinx and Silco’s dynamic is because they fulfill that fantasy. Unconditional love that is so strong it becomes dangerous is a trope that many people gravitate towards because, although it’s unrealistic and would never work out well in our real lives, it’s enjoyable to imagine a world where someone could love US like that, no matter what or who we were.
Very well said
Please don't fantasize this kind of relationship. It's not beautiful. Silco didn't show unconditional love. There's a massive condition which is to kill Powder. That's gaslighting/brainwashing. You can do whatever you want as long as what you want is also what I want, is not unconditional love. Don't be ridiculous.
People like that DO exist. It's called our parents. With few exceptions parents love their kids unconditionally, and every parent I've met told me that the love they have for their kids is like something you'll never experience unless you have kids. And I believe them. I think people don't understand the difference between unconditional love and unlimited tolerance.
@@minutemansam1214 I know what you mean. However, a lot of parents cannot handle this love that they have for their kids and it become over-protectiveness and obsession which is harmful to the child's mental health and growth. They call it unconditional love and they believe it, but it's actually not. Most abusers don't know that they are abusive, and most abused victim don't know they are being abused. They only know after being out of the relationship and looking back.
You literally took the words right out of my head. This is exactly how I wish I could explain to people without making them think I disagree with their arguments
Videos like this let me know that I'm curating my fandom experience thoroughly, because I haven't seen these bad takes first hand. I think you did a great job of going through the messy complications of their relationship!
(Also, the idea that the bartender was flirting with Jinx is so mind boggling like he's CLEARLY afraid of her but even if he WAS attracted to her, whomst is foolish enough to hit on their boss's daughter when their boss is Silco?? Considering Silco's Whole Deal, it would not at all surprise me if he straight up killed someone for trying to get with Jinx. They DEFINITELY wouldn't be staying on his payroll, lmao).
I like the relationship for what it is --- a codependent, unhealthy one. It can be hard to watch but it's also intriguing in a way. And yes, it shows abuse between two people who don't actively try to be abusive. Which is why there's a lot of squick and ??? for me when I see people ship the two like I can't even verbalize it. I give kudos for the writers not glorifying the relationship or Jinx's mental illness.
That being said Powder starts off still as very isolated and co-dependent and I don't think she ever was going to come out mentally stable unless she got some serious therapy as a child and in Zaun that was never going to happen. I don't even think Vander gave her the attention she needed and Vi was never going to be enough or think she was enough.
Jinx and Silco are my two favorite characters. They also have my favorite character relationship in the show, the scenes of them together were always my favorite
Note when I say relationship I mean characters interacting with each other like (Jayce and Viktor and not like Jayce and Mel).
I went on the internet a while ago looking for a video like this, and I found Georgia Dow's.... I couldn't even get 10 minutes through.
I appreciate that you can understand and even love these characters...and still know that love doesn't mean healthy.
I saw a lot of my dad at his worst moments in Silco. Projecting, putting her in uncomfortable positions in the name of love and trust, lying to get what he wants.
Thankfully my dad has gotten help and we have a much more healthy relationship now. It was just so jarring for me, it was like reliving those moments.
When people were praising this relationship I went along with it at first because I was very naive and unable to comprehend their relationship, but I always knew deep down that something wasn’t right cus the way Silco “raises” Jinx always made me feel uncomfortable or sick to my stomach. It was like watching an adult groom a child into a relationship& take advantage of her broken mind to mold her into someone he wants her to by projecting his trauma onto her, all while saying things like, “I understand what your going through” “We’re not so different” “I’m here for you” to trick her into thinking he cares when he’s just using her as a pawn.
I have to thank you for talking about the unknowing aspect of their abuse. I, just a few days ago, cut off a "friend" who mistreated, attacked, manipulated and psichologically and emotionally abused me. I let this happen for an entire year, telling him every single time that he hurted me and shouldn't do that again, but backing down anytime I saw him cry and apologize choking down on his own tears. It got to a point where I was totally TERRIFIED of him, anytime he got frustrated he started acting violent and hitting everything around me. I could only think "when is he gonna hit me? Which one of these days am I gonna be phisically close enough to him in the wrong moment and get hit?". Yet I justified his behavior to every single person that told me how wrong he was, all because he didn't do it on purpose. I couldn't name his behavior "abuse" because I knew it was due to him not being able to handle and proccess his own emotions and insecurities, instead of him being "evil". But manipulation and abuse are still those things even if the person did them unknowingly. And it took me a lot of time to accept that. So I'm not only glad that Arcane shows this kind of relationship, I'm incredibly grateful to see you talking about it and highlighting this aspect of it. I wish the best of luck to you, and I sincerely hope you can finally get closure .
THANK YOU for this video. I was extremely fortunate not to experience abuse as a child, so I had no words for the worries Georgia Dow's explanation caused in me. I tried, especially with Silco's dying words, and I'm fairly pleased with the explanation I reached in that comment but I definitely lacked the eloquence that comes from truly understanding the situation. All I knew was "no, this isn't a good thing" and focused more on what flaws Silco had to have in order to make these decisions. It took me down the rabbit hole of the difference between empathy and sympathy and compassion, between logic and rationality, and how they all relate to each other, but the actual anatomy of the problems between Silco and Jinx requires so much more than "Why". This is the "What" and the "How" of that relationship, and I am grateful you chose to expose yourself this way so that we could understand.
You're very good with your explanation of your perspectives on Arcane. You keep it civilized and clear. When you said "If Jinx had any friends, they would've made an effort to display that in the show," that's what really sold me to your observations that this relationship is manipulative. Basically I love the way you made this video. Stay awesome G.
This is a great video. It sounds like you and I went through similar experiences in a relationship. The element you talked about that really sticks out for me is the isolation - slowly peeling away friends, family, and the rest of your support network. It left me emotionally dependent on my partner and made it impossible for me to see what was really going on. The frog in the boiling water. What finally helped me was making a new group of close friends through online gaming (since in-person activities would have been looked on suspiciously). When one of my friends said my relationship was emotionally abusive, it crystallized everything for me. For the next year or so after that, I worked on reconnecting with close family members I hadn't talked to in a decade and got myself out of that situation. I've ended up in a much healthier relationship where my partner actively encourages me to make and maintain connections with other people and to avoid isolation. So much of what you said resonates with me and I just want to thank you for putting this out there; hopefully it helps some people recognize potentially similar situations in their own lives.
Yes, someone gets it! What fascinates me about Silco and Jinx is that they represent a type of abusive relationship that is rarely ever depicted in Hollywood: codependent, terrifying -- and yet **loving.** The feelings of these two for each other are so raw and so understandable given their connection formed in high-stress, traumatic events, but their most harmful traits for themselves and others were encouraged by each other. Jinx was pulled away from every person in her life that could mend her relationship; Ekko and Vi especially. Silco is indirectly responsible for Vander's death, and I believe that Silco exacerbated Jinx's estrangement with Vi by pitting the himself and Jinx against the world. In return, Jinx had a wildly devoted relationship to him and yet she had no stability or modeling on how to process her feelings or even articulate them beyond what the world had shown her --- pew-pew. Jinx's reckless and arguably nihilistic behavior strengthened Silco's need to "protect her" in a much more controlling manner, which hardened his approach in claiming Zaun and fighting against Piltover.
They were so heartfelt, and you could tell that they genuinely cared for the other -- but neither of them had the tools to unpack their traumas... and it had fatal results. Neither of them wished ill on each other-- but people's wounds come out subconsciously... and they both had many.
I loved your "art painted in blood" metaphor. It is very, very true to Silco and Jinx.
Relationships can be loving and still be very dangerous and disconcerting... I also relate to this topic as someone who HAS endured multiple interpersonal traumas and experienced codependency in previous relationships. It's hard shit. I'm still in therapy processing it all, and some of this stuff happened 10-15 years ago...
I just finished it last night and it is absolutely amazing, especially Silco’s character. His quote *“ is there anything more undoing than a daughter?”* Really stuck with me. At first, I thought he was talking about how jinx is his downfall And ruin. But really, it’s about how she was undoing his cruelty, in the walls, he built as his reputation of a fearsome and powerful person. He’s a horrible person who is responsible For the deaths of many people, but still has huge capacity to love huge amounts of care for his daughter. That is what makes the show so incredible: It’s realistic and Accurately portrays The humanity of people, Good or bad.
I love this take. Some people tend to think that Jinx was the only one suffering in the relationship and Silco is just a big bad abusive father. Silco and Jinx both have truama and insecurities and they're both codependent on eachother. But Silco holds the power in the relationship, so whether intentional or not, the abuse was his doing.
Yess sort of but Jinx was also absuive towards him. I mean she did physicially hurt him because she felt like he lied to her and in the end he was willing to betray him just as easily fully knowing betrayal is his biggest fear.
(Yes in the last scene she was willing to shoot Silco if Vi chooses to shoot Cait. She didn't even gave him a chance to explain himself meaning killing him was the sole purpose he was there).
Yess Silco is an adult manipulating a child so in that has more power but it's not like Jinx is completely weak and powerless either.
@@sns_taunoraka782 Part of that though, is that she believed he was betraying her, something he spent years hammering into her head as an "unforgivable sin"
@@sns_taunoraka782 Victims of abuse eventually exhibit abusive behavior themselves. Not to mention if Silco hadn't been manipulative as he raised her, she could have had a chance at being something different. It is very naive to not recognize the gravity of Silco's actions in raising her the way he did which he did quite deliberately, making his fault all the greater. Also, when dealing with someone who suffers from mental illness, you must remember it isn't inherently their fault when they act in ways due to results from the illness, you probably wouldn't feel the same way about someone getting angry or harsh while in pain from cancer. He purposely raised her in a way that contributed to more instability. It's like if you were raising a lion and keeping it scared and teaching it with starvation and aggression, would you then blame or be surprised when the lion attacks in fear, or hunger, or survival? I think not.
@@crowpatrol3226 so I may get personal with this but I struggled with abuse myself and I know I had fault in it to, Not exclusively of course. But I rocognize how I provoked my mother in such a way that she reacted violently and agressively towards myself and being raised in household where violence is normalized I quickly took at as a normal method of conflict and engaged in violent acts towards my parents as well.
What I'm saying ist situations are often complicated with Jinx and Silco Just as much as Mine is too. And from expirience I can say yes, I absolutely agreed, you really do have the potential to learn methods from absue as child and adopt it yourself, creating a never ending cycle.
Silco reminds me a lot of my own father, unconfitionally loving and truly with the best interests at heart but hurting Jinx through his manipulation worsening her mental illness while my father has intense Anger outbursts especially around my severe anxiety definitly worsening symptoms. What I'm saying is it is not one person that can hurt in the process but several and even when you are a child you can still have impact on another human being and truly hurt them, just as much as they csn hurt you. And I find that importsnt to recohnise as only through that we can actually break the cycle.
@@crowpatrol3226 “sometimes EVENTUALLY exhibit”. saying “eventually exhibit” makes it sound like all victims of abuse will do or do that and that’s flat out wrong and stupid.
Chuck was visibly nervous by Jinx's presence both because he was hiding something from her and because he was afraid of her
This might get removed but I came across this video in my recommended because I've been watching a lot of arcane stuff recently. I saw your name and recognized it from a streamer I used to watch daily a few years ago. Keep at it man. You're doing alright.
Thank you for touching on this - it says a lot of what I've been thinking about "love not being enough, just by itself" to fix anything. When I watched Arcane with a bunch of friends and they began really idealizing Jinx and Silco's relationship, I felt so uncomfortable in a way I couldn't quite name. I appreciate you making this video :)
I'm so glad you made this video. Personally, I also feel uncomfortable when people claim Powder and Silco's relationship as healthy. While there may be healthy elements to it (Silco's trust and love), they definitely are not good for each other.
As heartbreaking and touching as his final words were to her, I can't help but think that they were the last thing he should have said to Powder-- to change nothing, that she is perfect. The sad truth is Powder isn't perfect as she is. She's violent and unpredictable. And she has so much that she needs to heal from.
As much as he may love her, Silco doesn't push her to improve in any healthy way.
Seriously though when it comes to these people who immediately expect a romantic relationship between literally any 2 characters who appear on screen in the same scene simply because they exchange words really needs to be given a hug.
I dunno man, they might think of that as a confession of undying love
Yeah, this kinda reminds me of what my parents do to me. It's hard to hate someone when you love them so much and can't imagine a life without them.
Very good video and you touched on some very good points. I've watched Georgia Daw as well and as much as I love her analysis, I fear she overlooks some of the points about an emotional abusive relationship that you cover so well. I myself didn't shed a tear for Silco... but I did cry because Jinx cried, after she had just admitted how she realised and accepted what Silco had done to her and Vi. It shows how difficult it is to walk away from a toxic relationship, especially one you build up after a traumatic event, isolated from everyone else.
I'm reminded of several episodes from Law & Order who also discuss these topics, children torn from their families who form a bond with the very people responsible for the death or destruction of their families. Their trauma from losing their family makes them attach themselves onto the first person who shows them any affection and form a symbiotic (co-)dependant relationship with. In many episodes the care of these people for their 'children' is genuine, but their shamelessness in stating that they were better for the children than their actual families is genuine as well (kinda like how Silco mocked Vi for 'driving her sister away'). I've never seen anything so infuriating on television, it's why I hate Silco so much (wonderfully written though).
Most of these children grew up with their trauma unresolved and committed crimes, some simply from unresolved trauma but others out of fear of losing their toxic relationship with their new 'parents'. Any threat had to be dealt with (like Jinx attacking Piltover cause Silco might think her weak). What was most painful is that they completely rejected their old families and stated that they were really their kidnappers son/daughter. Most of these families were torn apart by guilt for 'letting' someone take their child or sibling, so when they heard their loved one completely denounce him/her and embrace this new identity, they were destroyed.
The most painful one was the story of a ten year old girl who was taking care of her 5-year old brother cause their mother was dying. Out in the playground her brother was grabbed by a woman who just lost a son and was looking for a replacement. The girl had just turned her back to get some ice cream and her brother was gone when she looked back. For the next 15 years she lived with that guilt and never smiled again as her family fell apart. Years later her brother was a pedophile arrested along with his 'mother', who was unapologetic and stated she gave her 'son' a better life than the sister ever could. When the detectives told the brother this, he freaked out and announced he was his 'mothers' son, the mere mention of his real family set of a near-psychotic reaction. The sister broke down, stating that her brother died years ago and she wasn't strong enough to face her brother.
That's what I saw with Vi as well. Her guilt for failing Jinx (and her family) is in direct contrast to Silco's shamelessness in the destruction of her family.
You can love a character dynamic and not want to emulate it.
Joker and Harley, Joker and Batman, Jaime and Cersei, Joel and Ellie, Jinx and VI, Guts and Griffith, Ido and Alita, Naruto and Sasuke, Eren and Mikasa come to mind. These relationships are fascinating and you cannot look away. The bonds are just that strong. So strong that all the suffering one inflicts on the other does not break them.
But they should not be goals. Rather, you should use that vicariously to look for something better for yourself.
Completely agree. A problem I find is that in these relationships, especially parent and child, the victim's trauma is invalidated just because the abuser did not realize the harm that they were causing. But damage made aggainst someone emotional, mental, or physical is damage that still occurred and scars the victim whether the abuser realizes it or not. Trauma is still trauma and it needs healing which might be reconciliation or distance. Even those who could potentially reconcile to a healthier relationship might do better separating themselves. Just because you can or their is potential doesn't mean more harm than good is created in the long run.
Plus, even if the abuser doesn't want to be abusive, or at least seen that way, it doesn't mean they didnt want something unhealthy from the relationship. Using jinx and silco as an example while I I think silco loved jinx he did have a goal for the relationship outside of that love. He projected himself on powder and wanted to change her just as he feels is right. He acts as if he wants powder to accept whole self but as the same time is telling her to ignore or lock aspects of herself away. He doesn't want to hurt her but he does want to change her, in order for that change to occur damage was done. This could happen in real life change, sex, a set image of a "perfect relationship/parter/son/daughter" in one's eyes, or an expectation of character (like thinking your kid is and should be just like you or grow up to be a doctor). All of these things are goals that abusers might want from the victim and while not wanting and to a degree not realizing the harm they cause still result in abuse in one form or another. Abuse is abuse. Trauma is trauma. Pain is pain. No matter the intentions or self image someone has it doesn't change what they have done.
Yow FUCKING FACTSSSSSSS! Your comment deserves more likes man
I almost cry while listening to this video, because I have to agree with you on so many levels. But at the same time, I have to say something from the perspective of a person that has a really strained relationship with her father. Is Silco toxic? Yes, of course! But he also gives Jinx so much! So much care and love! I know that's not enough, but sometimes, you just want at least this.
My father left us in a moment where my mother lost her father (my grandfather, which I was very close). He tries to maintain the relationship, but... it's not really working. And me and my brother have to watch how much care and attention he gives to his new family. And at the same time we have to deal with him still blaming us for strain in our relationship.
So when I heard Silco calling Jinx perfect, I broke. I didn't care that he was abusive! At that moment, all I could care about is that Silco gave Jinx more love and understanding than my father did to me. That's why I call Silco a "good dad". I know he could be better, I know what he does is very toxic and unhealthy. But at the same time, I just can't say that he's a bad father when I see how much he trust Jinx, how much he cares about her and how much he wants to just know her.
I know not all people are like this, but maybe some the people that call him a good dad, are just as starved for love and affection as I am.
Your perspective was very touching to listen to, thank you for sharing your story, I know that can’t be easy.
I’ve never been in an abusive or manipulative relationship, but watching the show I always felt…. On edge about jinx and Silco. They love each other but there’s so much destruction in their love that I always wanted them to get away from each other. I thought the show did a great job of showing how toxic unconditional love can be (silco telling her she’s perfect when he should be helping her become better, for example), and also how control and isolation can stunt someone’s ability to grow (jinx being seven years older yet still acting like a little girl). It is so deeply concerning every time I see people talking about what a great dad he is and how they have such a healthy relationship when the reality is that their relationship is so poisoned and now the rod them even know it
THANK YOU. I've barely seen any commentary on this show outside of a few videos like yours, so I haven't seen people glorify their relationship... But I'm not at all surprised. Far too many people have unhealthy or at least very uninformed views of what a healthy relationship is, which colors and components it's made out of. I wish a lot more people challenged what they've learned throughout their life, especially in their childhood, by seeking out new knowledge and learning how to evaluate and understand what that new knowledge is actually saying. I'm saying this because it's easy to try to find a better replacement for one's current knowledge but instead slip further down destructive pathways if you haven't learned how to think critically about information presented to you.
Back to the relationship, which I absolutely loathed. I hated every second that they were on screen together and wanted to see them separated. For context, I have faced at least 20 years of abuse throughout my life, of which 9 and 3 years respectively were being abused by two covert narcissists (please look up what Dr Ramani has to say about it if you're not familiar) in very close proximity. I have also been abused by overt narcissists. Silco's manipulative tactics were so obvious to me that it made me not trust anything he said. It felt like the motivation behind everything he said and did was to serve and benefit him and to shield himself from his own wounds. Silco is dealing with his emotions and trauma in such poor ways that he's just not capable of having a healthy relationship. He's trying to shield himself from feeling powerless, a feeling caused by his trauma, by clawing his way to power no matter what stands in his way or what damage he causes to reach a state of perceived safety. All of the good we see him do towards Jinx that you mention in this video is to me just a way to get what he wants. Jinx wouldn't stay or give him what he wants if all he did was treat her like shit.
As for co-dependency, this is how I would describe it: if we picture a trauma as a cavity in our being, like a wound caused by something on our physical body, co-dependency makes sense. Say if a parent died when a child was young, and that child is not allowed to grieve, the wound of that parent is undealt with and as that child grows up, they might seek out something to fill that cavity to numb the pain. There are some people or relationships that fit so neatly into that cavity and we experience it as the wound being closed up and our skin being smooth again, like the person has healed us. But it's really just a way of keeping the pain inside. I think this is why Silco can not bear losing Jinx, and why he is sometimes acting loving, because he is attempting to close up his wound because he can not face the pain.
On the other hand Vi is a narc too. Maybe Ekko would be of help if she ever let him. We'll see in season 2. At least that is what showrunner said about season 2
this video stated everything i've always wanted to say about this relationship. i've seen it glorified way too much and it just makes me uncomfortable - i've literally seen people say silco is the best dad ever, which is way too far from the truth. this video perfectly captured the truth and everything that needs to be said about this; thank you for making it.
another thing that kind of upset me was actually silco's final moments where he tells jinx she's perfect. i love jinx so, so much and she's my favorite character in any media at all - but even i have to disagree. i think that she's flawed and needs to reflect on her past life and accept everything that happened instead of pushing it away, burning it, and becoming an entirely new person that is the embodiment of all chaos. she struggles with change and letting go, and i think if silco was actually a genuinely good father, he would help her with that instead. he'd help her accept her past and get through it, or at least try; but instead, he looked at it as a blank canvas, and changed her to be someone he could easily manipulate and have full control over. jinx was extremely vulnerable in this last scene and much more susceptible to believe what silco says, which is what will make her redemption arc so difficult - if she even gets one at all. that's what i think, at least - i hope this kinda captured what you were going for?? if not i'm sorry, i'm not a trained professional either, this was just my take on it
This is fairly hard for me to word as the relationship shown pulled strings in a certain way, I simultaneously hated and liked it and felt it but it didn't make me uncomfortable. There were good parts buried in it, but so man it was overshadowed heavily by the damage that was done and actively being done. I feel like the worst thing that Silco did was the very first, instead of looking for Vi or dispelling the lashing out feelings she had towards them he latched onto it and kept her in that moment since. He never tried to help her in the situation he forced her into and took her from, he pushed her further into it and showed no remorse for doing so. Some of that may not have been something he would've done prior, he latched on the moment she showed and related it to his own trauma and tried to work with it has he had instead of taking a step back or watching how it hurt her. He avoided that Vi existed and it bit him in the ass. His further driving her into the moment in ways she could not handle got him shot as he tried to rectify the mistake of acting like there was no chance Vi would ever return. The more she stayed in the moment the more she wanted Vi back, as much as she recoiled from the hit.
That aside... I've been in the situations more than I'd like to admit. From one sided forced dependency from my abusive father, to the manipulation from the rest of my family, to the codependency and manipulation between me and who's still a good friend and her now absent seven year ex. My parents, uncles, aunts, took part willingly and knowingly as that was how they were taught to raise someone from their parents, but me and my siblings and cousins have to actively recognize and pull back from acting out in a manipulative way. Part of me is paranoid the people that like to be around me is because I've manipulated them into being so unknowingly, leading to a lot of anxiety and tendency to self isolate which just makes the situation worse. I might be on from acting as I have and away from the manipulation but it's still there, which is quite concerning for Jinx' future in the series as much of a step that was made in the season 1 finally if they do stick to the grittiness as they had between the time skip. She has Vi, Vi has her and Caitlyn, and Silco is dead, but there's still a lot of progress to be made in regards to making that happen.
How people see Silco and don't feel pissed at him, I don't know. At every step he couldn't put his self aside for her, even when it seems like he had. Saving Jinx, he made her the monster she saw herself as and despised. Up until a brief moment before the end, only to be shot in the foot as he tries to shoot Vi against everything Jinx has shown in that moment.
I absolutely loved this video! Thank you so much to bring up such a valid analogy between manipulative tactics, abusive relationships and what are the limits between love and abuse, comparing with a masteripece of the pop culture! I found your channel recently, but I'm already glad to see those themes gaining importance and validation on the internet! Again, thank you so much for your amazing videos! Keep up the great work🤩🙏
Here the thing about Silco and Jinx and abusve relationships. Most of the times its not one sided. One party loves the other and the other doesn't. Yes Silco did manipulate Jinx but the thing it is; yes it is manipulation but from Silco's POV he's telling her the truth.
Silco thinks he and Jinx are going through the same thing and as such he thinks what worked for him will work for her, but Vi is not like Vander, because unlike Vander, Vi would never betray or abandon Jinx but Silco doesn't view it that way.
But also "Loving Someone doesn't justify a person's actions." Which can be applied to Silco, Vander and other characters from other shows, movies and video games.
thats what this video named co-dependency, i believe
I have to say, it's a terrible idea to gloss over the fact that what Silco did to Jinx/Powder was in any way healthy. Their relationship was unhealthy, but there was something twisted and beautiful about their chemistry that couldn't be put into words.
As you said, an absolute masterpiece, painted by blood.
As for Silco being a "Good dad", it depends on what aspect you look at it from.
・He was always happy to help her out
・Doesn't treat the trauma she experienced like it is nothing (although this is because Silco understood this himself)
・He does his best to give Jinx an important role, giving her as many opportunities as her that could be recognised by others
(I can go on and on but I think most of it is mentioned so yeah (￣▽￣))
Which I would say is definitely a quality of a caring and good parent (Personal opinion)
The problem was that Silco wasn't familiar with raising children (quite obviously) and was highly anti-social. This leads him to unconsciously Isolate her because Silco has isolated himself, and unknowingly manipulates her when scared of losing her. After all, manipulating others was what he has been doing his entire life.
What's even more heartbreaking is that Silco isn't completely "lying". It seemed like he genuinely believed Vi was going to abandon her, not to underestimate the fact that he doesn't know her well.
Abusing people is easy, and this includes abusing yourself, and Silco has ended up doing both.
I hope in S2 we get more flashbacks of her childhood with Silco. A lot was conveyed already but still
Wow! 🤯🤯🤯🤯it's mind blowing that some people considered Silco and Jinx relationship a NON toxic one!!!!!!!!
you could see the manipulation and control from miles away!!!!!!!
" it's us against them/ world" is one of the most toxic thing abusers use to isolate someone.
Abuse happens also in the name of love using sweet words.
The problem isn't that Silco didn't love Powder, it's that he didn't know how to love. He saw himself in the girl, so he gave her everything he would have wanted when he was her age and ignored what she really needed.
Many people who grew up with out fathers or in hard situations, like my self, looked at this relation and could only see what they wanted. At first, I couldn’t see how toxic it was because the loving and supportive way Silco treated Jinx, not wanting to let her go. I couldn’t see that in keeping her so close, he was isolating her. I think the reason people hold this relationship so high in their own standard is becases If you haven’t had anything to compare it too or have had an unhealthy relationship with a parent, it looks amazing.
People watched arcane and thought that their relationship is completely healthy? What?? Are we watching the same show?
Frankly, I think lots of people were just happy Silco wasn't grooming and r*ping her.
That's what I presumed was going to happen.
Like, girl lost everyone and had an adult man take her in, and she didn't end up a trafficked sex worker? She's incredibly lucky.
Thank you for making this video. For your vulnerability and for using your experiences to illuminate what about this relationship is broken.
Silco was a loving father. That doesn't mean that he was a healthy father or that he's a good role model for fathers in general.
Don't get me wrong, all parents make mistakes, and we all do things that we wish we had done differently, and there's no one right way to raise a kid. That said, there are some definitely wrong things that parents sometimes do that make them abusers, even when they genuinely, tenderly love their children. After all, parents are the grown-ups.
When I met my wife I saw she had a very toxic ex. So the first thing I did was to let her understand my communication is NOT hostile. It means she does not need to read between lines, and what I say is not meant to hurt her. So when people say "I do not understand women" it is because they have not de-escalated the situation. I made her judge me not for what I say, but what I do. And I never promise anything, unless I am committed to fulfill that promise.
I do not have time or energy to play mental games. And she learned that too. Mature love fixes problems talking like adults. Drama is for teenagers. Love is not an emotion, or eternal love will last 6 months. Love is not passion because people kill for passion. Love is a decision. Two people who could go separate ways anytime, decide to stay together because they are happier better people together. Codependence is the opposite, when "I love you" means "make me happy"
A person who is not happy being alone, will not be happy in a relationship. A person who is happy living alone, may be happy in a relationship. This comes from a 1900s study in Germany, 1000 sampled every day during 10 years.
I think is still love, but it’s more of the fact that sometimes love alone isn’t enough, love is a powerful emotion but it doesn’t always end in a healthy relationship. In some cases, like it’s explained in the video, You think you are helping the other person and want the other person to be happy, but good intentions aren’t enough, and you end up doing the wrong thing without realizing it, because like you said, you can have a happy relationship only if you are already happy on your own, and i totally agree on that. I also totally agree that in communication should be key and very clear and direct at all times.
When people say Silco loves her unconditionally, I'm like - absolutely not. He loves Jinx unconditionally, but he hates Powder and will do anything to kill that part of her. Just like Vi doesn't love her unconditionally, she loves Powder unconditionally.
Also, when he says "you're perfect", to me he does not choose between his life-long ambition and his daughter. By saying Jinx is perfect, he used his very last resource to create the Zaun he wants, because he knows Jinx is a perfect embodiment of that Zaun. So to the very end he used Jinx as his creation to achieve his goal, even at the price of his own death. I mean... if he really cared about the girl, he would've encourged her to make peace with Vi so that she has at least one person in her life. Instead, he condemns her to isolation just to achieve his goal. And I think he didn't say "Jinx is perfect" because he knew she has solidified as Jinx anyway, so it's - you're perfect.
I can't believe this is even a discussion. The writers have flat out stated they wrote their relationship to illicit uncomfortable feelings in the viewers.
This was definitely an abusive relationship. There was clear manipulation of an already broken mind, but there was also genuine affection.
Dude, you are awesome. THIS is extremely important. People don’t notice this relationship is screwed up because they have never been gaslit or recognized what gaslit really is. That’s why gaslighting is so effective! It’s hard to recognize and most people have never been taught how to recognize it. It should be something we should teach in school like taxes and how to rotate your tires or what groceries to buy and how to recognize a scam.
Thank you for making this- It vocalized a lot of thoughts I had based on experience beautifully and concisely. Hopefully it can help people recognize these things or at least change their perspective in some way.
Thank you for bringing up this topic! I was really bothered by people romanticizing their relationship and I didn't have anyone to talk to about this/who agreed with me.
he literally said it himself “i lied to you cause i didn’t want you to leave me”
I appreciate you creating and uploading this I am glad you want to be a better human too. Thank you.
I think this is the first video I've seen that summarizes my thoughts about this relationship so succinctly, most that I have seen tend to go to one end of the spectrum or the other, and this feels nuanced enough to actually get to the heart of the matter and really understand it. Thank you for the great video!
could not agree more my dude! beautifully said
In my opinion, Silco was the best father he could be to Jinx. He did do all the things Vander did but from his own mountain of experience. Vander imparted his knowledge on life and how to deal with things based on his own experience. Silco did the same. The problem was that Silco is a jaded and ruthless man who knows how dirty things get. He expects it not to change unless violence is done. The title of episode 3 makes it clear what his ideology is.
The real interesting thing about the two dad's are that they both want good things but go about it the wrong way. Vander wants peace but ends up with bitter tensions rising because nothing is changing. Silco wants independence but in the process makes the undercity into a den of debauchery and excess. Peace and independence is a good thing but separate they cause problems.
THIS I AGREE YOU PUT IT INTO WORDS!!! they're complicated characters and i love your analysis of them. as someone who was in jinx's position with my own silco i totally agree. this relationship is not goals at all
Wow, thank you so much for making this video. I've just stumbled upon it by complete accident and there's so much to say where to begin...
First, I come from a broken home where physical abuse while present paled in comparison to the emotional abuse that took place. I also saw all of these things while watching the show, and it made my skin crawl because I've been in that position of complete and utter helplessness while remaining wholly dependent upon my abuser and unable to find any escape. As they say, better the evil you know than the one you don't.
To this day I continue to struggle with feeling worthy of anything - chiefly love, happiness, and acceptance. I echo your sentiments that this is a pandora you want to keep in the box. To say it plainly, if anyone is crazy enough to consider attempting to replicate this please reconsider.
The next thing I want to say is regarding the writing. I normally HATE what I consider "negative energy" movies and shows. This was the exception, but I couldn't put my finger on why. This video explained why in agonizing detail, and for that bravo - I really mean that. You helped me understand some of my own internal processing and realizations and I think I can now actually use this as an anecdote to point to which will help convey the insanely deep complexity of the abuse of my past.
The reality is, mirroring my real life experience I think Silco and Jinx were actually doing the best they could with the cards they've been dealt. Still, that doesn't make it acceptable. This is the narrative that's so difficult to explain to people who have not been involved in this type of abuse. People can't seem to hold in their head that someone is both an abuser and probably still actually trying, somehow, to do the best they can.
Finally I just want to say awesome content! This is the first video I've seen of yours but you have a subscriber for life. I loved your story telling pace, high attention to detail, and high production value. I'm surprised that your channel is as small as it is but I know it will grow quickly. I'm just happy to be here for the ride.
The bartender guy has a crush on jinx?????????
I'm sorry????? Who suggested that????? HE IS LITERALLY SCARED, HE'S A VICTIM. Yeah, no. They're literally just glorifying abuse...
this video has opened my eyes to my own co-dependency and i will be trying to seek help for it
thank you
Thank you so much for this video
Ive watched so many videos that mentioned/expanded on their relationship, but they all either praised or simply glossed over the abusive aspects, and its been pissing me off
Ive (unfortunately, when i was younger) been on both sides of manipulative relationships, and i was very quick to pick up on the tactics portrayed in arcane (having used and had them used on me) and ive gotten so tired of having to explain to friends and acquaintances that no, this is very much Not a healthy relationship. Its so nice to see someone else go into such detail to show this. Not discounting how they love each other, but going into the good and the bad.
A person who's lovingly enabling your dysfunction isn't a good guy. He's just as broken and has found a broken way of being. And he (or she) will further your trauma. Do not confuse "creative" pain avoidance with being functional, over it or love. Healing is possible. Pain can be faced and processed. All in a healthy way, with a support group, in therapy. Please read this again and be careful out there!
Maybe you mentioned it and I didn't realize, but also all that thing Silco had about how it was him and Jinx against the world did contribuite to her isolation. He was always putting in her mind she would have no one besides him, no one she could trust, connect, be friends with, have a relationship. Everyone is against and betrays them. This mentallity certainly made her be lonely.
It shouldn’t need saying - and I genuinely thought it didn’t! - but their relationship is obviously unhealthy. I love well written complex relationships, and I loved this one too. But my god, some people actually can’t see the toxicity here? Either…. very good for them for having lived sheltered enough not to see red flags… or very dangerous for them.
You know, it's not exactly surprising giving the quality of the writing, but nonetheless ... it's fascinating to watch videos from Georgia, you, schnee, others, different takes on Arcane, you can agree or disagree on certain aspects, have your own opinions, strong opinions, drawing on experiences you made in your life. Yet, those are entirely fictional characters, this is a fantasy story, everything is made up. But the discussion is on such a high level, and it goes so deep and is so insightful. Mad respect to the writing team. This is the real achievement of Arcane. No other franchise (I hate having to use this word here) has sparked this, and they knocked this out of the park in the first season.
I agree that their relationship isn't healthy, but it is beautiful. It's the complexity and the love that shines through all the bad that gives it beauty, but Beauty isn't perfect. Silco does love Jinx and she loves him in return, but two broken people can't fix eachother. Silco didn't let raising Jinx turn him into a better person like it could have, instead he forges on and tries to preserve what he sees as a perfect imbodiment of Zaun. Jinx is a broken child, orphaned again and again, abandoned and belittled. she was already abused before he took her in and he didn't try to help her heal. Jinx was a product of abuse and neglect as well as love. Love is blind. first her parents, blinded by love, died for a better future for their children, then Vander is blind to the fact that love isn't all she needs. Jinx does have a beautiful relationship with Silco, and the love between them is one to be admired but it shouldn't overshadow the toxicity. I feel that if Silco and Vander hadn't turned against eachother than we could have seen a beautiful relationship where both girls would have had a loving father figure while also having an uncle figure to round out their growth. had the two men worked together after the failed rebellion I believe they could have changed their world and given the sisters the best childhood possible.
The good thing about Arcane is that it exposes behaviors, and in a way humanizes them. Criminology and mental issues are 2 different things. But bad writers often try to mix them. This show shows the human side of things. You see many unhealthy people, making bad decisions. But this is needed to create these characters.
If you wanted a wholesome show, make Powder finish that sandwich in episode 1. The end.
Amazing!❤❤
I def wouldn't call it relationship goals, but I found myself crying a lot since I would also like a parent that said I was enough, that asked for my side first from me. and those parts are the parts that impacted me strongly and stuck with me not so much the weird parts. but that's a me thing
honestly I'd love an AU or modern AU where Silco and Vander weren't affected by the war and just be some regular guys raising their daughters as dads and uncles. it'd be so cute ahhhhh
Bro thank you for posting this I love this type of stuff from you
I think the saddest thing about their dynamic was how in the end, she was perfect to him no matter which decision she decided to make. And from his perspective but shooting him she made her choice and he accepted it. He didn't get angry or even express a feeling of betrayal, he just insured to her that he would have never given her up and that she was perfect in his eyes no matter which path she decided to take.
It's fucking sad
And while I agree with most of what you said here, especially as being someone who went through a very similar experience that you described and that this show actually entails except mine was actually far worse. Hell I would have taken silco as a father any day over mine and I mean that...
That being said
don't entirely agree that Silco isolated jinx though.. for a variety of reasons that are honestly too many to name. But from my point of view he didn't isolate her but she isolated herself on her own, we even see her do this years earlier after powder messed up the heist and is sitting under her bed alone messing with her little bombs.
Now...We know that she's gone on missions, We know that she roams around and essentially does pretty much whatever she wants to a point.
It's also pretty clear that she finds solace in working on her gadgets alone as well. That is shown to be by her doing not Silco.
I think you make a few assumptions about things that happen in the times skip that have not been shown, particularly the part about ekko.
I spent 13 years of my life in the very dynamic that you are talking about here. The isolation being probably the biggest one and I didn't see that projected onto jinx by silco at all.
I would argue that she had too much free reign.
After stealing the gemstone one of the things Marcus says to him and his office is "she took things too far this time."
Which tells us that this isn't the first time that Jinx has gone around causing problems for topside in some form, but that this particular instance was crossing a line.
He either didn't have consequences set in place for her at all or he was inconsistent.
Kind of like how he attempted to scold her for doing what she did in episode 4 and then when he realizes she's not listening to him he takes away her pen like a parent would take away a toy from a child.
All that being said though, great video
Ps-
One little thing I forgot to comment on.
Just wanted to say that your statement talking about how you're tired of hearing people say that Jinx has friends and we just haven't seen them yet... I had to bring it to you but people aren't pulling this out of their ass.
This is something that's already been confirmed by one of the writers of the show Amanda Overton.
twitter.com/leeloo104/status/1469864409832980483?t=32PCaiYIXZCrCh3nahYFuA&s=19
Someone asked if Jinx could have a friend.
She replied: "Jinx has friends. Who they are has to stay a mystery for now."
So yes she does have friends.
Just because we have not met them does not mean they do not already exist in the show during the time it takes place
There are two very likely possible options of who these friends might be one of which is the same species as Heimerdinger.
But we will see.
I like this. Maybe her friend is going to be Ziggs just based on the LoL comic.
Also, I agree, I think Silco was a controlling but also too indulgent with Jinx that she did not have too much consequences to her actions from Silco. She seemed outright excited that she had 12 enforcers killed (due to past prejudice maybe), and even bored when she was being reprimanded by Silco. Like she knew that she could placate Silco with the hextech loot she stole.
@@redunkulous9901 It's not so much that she was laughing or excited for the fact that she killed enforcers but more so that another one of her traps worked and they fell for it and her plan worked accordingly.
Meanwhile succeeding in retrieving the gemstone.
And though Jinx's goals are generally more personal she knows that her surrogate Father's ultimate goals are for the independence of zaun and she knows that hextech is a weapon ultimately, and she was smart enough to lay out a plan to infiltrate the lab and steal it along with all the plans and she did this for him.
She's a clever booger sometimes too much for her I'm good lol
I think her happiness after she obtained the gem also had to do with the fact that she was proud that she was able to be helpful to her new family that was silco. Ultimately, she just wants other people to love and she wants to be able to help the people that she loves. Much like how she was when she was a kid.
It's strange how the girl can both be damaging to silko's cause but also be useful for at the same time lol
Personally...after everything that piltover has done to the undercity and even her own life I didn't feel bad for a single one of those enforcers that were killed but that's just me.
People cant expect folk to just keep taking it over and over for decades and the other side not expect retaliation eventually.
As far as what you said about what friend she might have, I think ziggs is the one. There is another girl who is also a tinkerer but I forgot her name.