Only You Can Save Greyhawk!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- I felt compelled to make this video after watching a lively stream over on @TenkarsTavern and I break down the good advice they offered on light of WotC using Greyhawk as a sample setting in the DMG. Links below to watch.
Tenkar's livestream
th-cam.com/users/live7S2_0rqX...
Pacesetter Games
pacesettergames.com/
Enworld
www.enworld.org/threads/how-d...
Game Informer
www.gameinformer.com/2024/05/... - บันเทิง
I disagree. WotC will probably screw it up.
Although new players may like the new setting.
We can try and be good ambassadors.
Inspirational attitude Flint. The Greyhawk box might have been my third box after red box basic and blue box expert. I had Darlene's map on my bedroom wall for years. I wish I still had it! I'm inspired by your quote: "Will you be a good ambassador of a great hobby or a bad ambassador of a mediocre company." But I think you may have insulted dragons by representing WOTC as one. Maybe a black pudding, or a grey ooze. Or a rust monster.
I think you're right, Black Pudding or a Gray Ooze may have been better choices 🤣
You are wrong they will treat it just like Dragonlance.
Make it grim, make it dark, be afraid, IT IS GREYHAWK! DM the way Greyhawk was meant to be run.
Yeah, they'll screw this up too.
More Hasbro than wotc
The Girlpower Players Handbook.
?
🤣
As in life, change is always inevitable. To be honest, I’m interested to see what WoTC does with Greyhawk, however, I have PDFs of the classic module boxed set and a few print on demand books. Even if they make changes for the worst, I have copies of the original content, much like many others. I can just go off that. If WoTC makes changes for the good, or at least positive additions to the world that I find appealing, I’ll likely add those.
Same. We'll just have to wait and see and I'll share my thoughts when it releases.
Good, sound advice. Great video. Subscribed, Liked and Shared.
High praise indeed. Thank you.
a) I love Larry Elmore! His art inspired my game so much!
b) I'm a game developer...I'm coding my own version as a hobby! Already have the GH-map saved as a World Map.
Just finishing up the graphics for the Avatars and I'll get to the Alpha-Test phase!
Nice!
Finally I see a good take on this.
Glad to be here lol. Thanks for watching.
I have a great deal of Greyhawk stuff. Been playing and collecting since the 70's. I have no faith at all with current dungeons and dragons management people at the company.
I feel ya
The creative and optimistic view of this vid is really inspiring. I implore more old school gamers to adopt Flint's perspective when encountering new releases that feel like they may threaten the integrity of the original material.
Trying to stay positive in a negative world :) Thanks for watching.
I think the perspective of being generous with your time, and if it is wanted, advice is the only way to go. I would never want to discourage anyone from playing. I hope to continue to do that for years to come. My only disagreement is calling WotC a mediocre company is giving them too much credit. :)
Ha! That's fair.
Good video. I do have my fears though lol
That's fair.
There really isn't much in Greyhawk to sanitize. Not the same way they did for Ravenloft or Spelljammer or Dragonlance or Planescape.
That's true. I think the concern is over anything wotc thinks up to change. It's silly, no one is losing anything from their table.
I have all the Greyhawk settings. It was not my favorite D&D setting, but it just has a classic vibe that makes it fun to play.
Agreed. I am reading the adventure hooks in the back of the Greyhawk Glossagraphy with the hope of getting it to the table soon.
This is a good take on the situation. I always try and be a good ambassador for the hobby, if I see any newbs around I'll be sure to help them out! If WoTC make fundamental changes to the setting lore or well-known NPC's to 'bring it into the modern day' e.g. gender-swapping NPC's or removing the Slavers, I'll be disappointed, but unsurprised.
Thank you for being a good ambassador and thanks for watching.
Unsurprised? I will be surprised if it doesn't look like a Seattle freakfest.
They burned it down the first time, that's why they came out with "out of the ashes".
lol you're not lying.
What are n00bish questions that you expect? I read through the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer when I first got into D&D and it had me pretty well informed on the setting.
Sure, people will read the DMG and get some of the background of Greyhawk but it would be cool if someone told them, "hey, if you want more information on Greyhawk, check out Living Greyhawk Gazetteer on Drivethurpg."
Lol! Great video man!
Thanks!
When he was talking about cranky old bastards he was talking specifically about you Joe.
And even some stuff from 1.0....
it's all good!
That's a very positive attitude, I think! Greyhawk was the first setting I ever played in (my big brother got into gaming a little before I did, and it was altogether too convenient for him to rope me into his games!)
These days, I prefer to play in homebrew settings: you feel a deeper connection to a world if you had a hand in its creation. But Greyhawk will always have a soft spot in my heart. :)
It was for a lot of us older players who got into D&D back in the late 70's, early 80's. I "believe" that an introduction came as part of the Blue or Red Box set that I bought although I also recall buying an actual box set for Greyhawk as well, although neither remain in my modest collection.
Hi! Im a new greyhawk enjoyer. Ive been delving into greyhawk for the past 4 months or so and I love the setting. While wotc swooping in and bringing back greyhawk while im still dipping my toes in is very curious.
Welcome to Greyhawk! Curious indeed. Thanks for watching.
I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this.
First, it's 8 pages in the DMs Guide, not the Players Handbook.
Second, it's not just 8 pages in the DMs Guide, it's also 32 more pages coming in another (licensed) book, Worlds & Realms. And probably more that we haven't heard about yet.
Third (and this is the real point), those hordes of new people interested in Greyhawk aren't going to be looking for the Greyhawk I know, game in, and talk and write about. Obviously nobody's seen the text yet, but based on WotC's track record, those new people are going to be looking for a divergent Greyhawk, with tieflings and dragonborn, and other things that don't fit. They're going to be looking for a Greyhawk where famous characters' histories and personalities have been rewritten, and where the essential character of the setting has been changed in ways that aren't part of the organic evolution of the setting (the Greyhawk Wars, for all the criticism they received, at least evolved from events that were already in motion in the setting, rather than being retconned in).
The result is going to be frustration on both sides (Player: "I want to play a tiefling"; DM: "This campaign takes place in CY 591. Explain how you survived the aftermath of the Flight of Fiends without the locals thinking you were a demon or cambion"; Player: "Huh?") and a fracturing of the Greyhawk community as some embrace the changes and others do not.
Nobody is saying anything WotC publishes will change the way they play at their table (and it's disingenuous to claim otherwise). But it will change the pool of prospective players, and therein lies the real problem.
Nobody will be happier than me if I am wrong. I would love it if they treated the setting with respect and love, and did not retcon swathes of it to match their current sensibilities. But WotC's track record in the past of making huge retcons for settings, or taking them in radical new directions, such as they did with Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft, does not give me a lot of hope that they won't do the same thing to Greyhawk.
I'll be welcoming to newcomers to Greyhawk, without a doubt. I've got 900 pages of 5E Greyhawk material for free downloads on my website right now. I'm already doing a series of videos on my own channel to explain the setting to newcomers, and I'll be running games at conventions. But they're going to get it on my terms, and it'll be the Greyhawk I know, not necessarily the one WotC gives them.
Well said. Your table, your game. No question that WotC has a track record and, I'm no fool, I know exactly how they could screw it up. Now, we wait and see.
I love the idea of them bringing back Greyhawk, but I do hope they make one change. Rip out Blackmoor and turn that into its own world.
I think there are some Blackmoor resources over on drivethrurpg www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/51494/Dave-Arnesons-Blackmoor-Core-Campaign-Book?cPath=4348&affiliate_id=35526
You used "the Dragon WotC"? When you could have used "Hasbro-deus"!?!
True lol
I wish more people in the comunity had this disposition. But what I really think is going to happen, is that old Greyhawk fans are just going to gatekeep new comers.
That's why we need more good gaming ambassadors. I need to start a club :)
@@FlintFireforge Absolutly. I personally endorse your efforts. Good video!
Screw W.O.T.C. Support independent creators . W.o.t.C are going to screw it over.
Pick up the old stuff.
Don't Feed The Corps.
Got lots of old stuff and I support independants frequently. Thanks for watching.
Of course all the “reimagined” trash is doomed. Fortunately Troll Lord Games has permission to reprint the original works of Gygax.
you are delusional or naïve if you think that it won't turn into Gheyhawk.
but I like your attitude about pulling them in.
What do you mean?
I doubt that any player with any knowledge of greyhawk back from the 80s will be an asset for new players as they will certainly make significant changes. they have to do it as the old greyhawk was a setting full of racial and religious conflict partly mirroring and taking inspiration from the real world but also introducing fantastic ones. with the new approach of "origins" or whatever the clad this in and the new approach of access to any class for anyone and flattening out the ability differences between said folks they take a lot of dynamics out. with them trying to pry away imported cliches of the real world like rhennee, baklunish, flan, etc due to mispresentation and cultural appropriation issues they eventually dismantle the Greyhawk.
Therefore, I doubt that - if they keep up what they say they aim for - there will be a Greyhawk any older player knows nor would recognize. That being said, I don't understand the fuss. The charme of roleplaying games is that once I have a system I do not need the company anymore. Yeah, they can throw out another edition making high elves purble haired and introduce a shapgechanging genderfluid human or whatever pisses you of the most. This is not a tournament game. You don't need to use all what is thrown out. This about fun with your friends. And unless it is part of your fun to rant about WotC or any company this wasted playtime, in my opinion at least.
Well said.
Hmm, I thought it died out decades go.
Actually, Greyhawk still has a very active community. There are podcasts, websites dedicated to it. Check out Greyhawk Grognard for more www.youtube.com/@GreyhawkGrognard
@@FlintFireforge well, I meant wotc putting out products, but thanks for pointing to the community.
Well, it appears that I do have a few rambling videos on Play-by-Post. In them I both describe my experience and the results of the game that was on-going at that time. Clearly though, I'll need to do a more direct video on the subject. I'm also going to include a link to a Wordpress site that I recently rediscovered which has a few entries as well.
th-cam.com/video/A6laDzP9wIw/w-d-xo.html
The above YT video is part of a play list of ten videos on PBP.
The entry on Liv's Quest is taken directly from the character's PBP tread on D&D Beyond with a bit of creative editing on my part to help it read smoothly. Or at least, I hope it does.
fatmansmuse.wordpress.com
We have used the Greyhawk stuff from 3.5 and 2.0. It works just fine.....
so much hype.... play what you wanna play....why worry when we can do whatever we want with whatever we want from any game source. WOTC and Hasbro live off of creating fear and hype that they will change everything. So what... dont like it..change it to what you want. If you play by the book and buy into the fear mongers that run WOTC and Hasbro in order to generate more interest and maybe more sales..... move on.. there are many games and so much info and resources. create your own game.
Agreed.
I don't understand how you think they're not going to ruin this let alone not ruin it on purpose because they don't like Gary gygax because he's apparently racist and non-inclusive. The man lived in a different time. That people nowadays obviously aren't intelligent enough to understand so they're doing everything in their power to ruin dungeons and dragons and its entire gaming legacy That's why they admitted to wanting to stop producing physical games and wanting to make it an IP for a lifestyle brand like clothes shoes and stuff like that sadly real dungeons and dragons is dead.
The chances are high that the Greyhawk we know and love will not appear in any of the WotC books. And yes, WotC, are actively erasing any signs of old school dnd. I can't change any of that but I hope, as I said in the video, that Jim and Bill were right that current players and new players will discover Greyhawk and the old school gaming community attached to it. Thanks for watching.
I can understand your fear. But that is just likes saying rock'n'roll is dead because we don't play it and produce it like back in the 50s. Life means change. If we put certain things up on a pedestal and never allow for any change that thing is dead. It is an artifact of a time gone by. As Gandalf said in the LotR movies: "Kings built tombs more splendid than the house of the living."
I appreciate Gary Gygax a lot for what he has done. But even back in the 80s his style of gaming was a little off to me. I can appreciate Elvis Presley but I wouldn't for the life of me listen to his music. And I don't think I'm being disrespectful to him. He is the king of rock. No doubt.
This vid will not age well. The op is a blind phool. The costies will woke and pride and puke all over greyhawk.
I *WANT* to have a good attitude, but I have absolutely no doubt that the Wahtzee Nahtzees will screw it up. It's embarrassing to me that they are the stewards of D&D during it's 50th anniversary year.
But truth be told, I don't pay much attention to it anymore. I've moved on to a better game in Castles & Crusades, which I run in Greyhawk.
Yeah, trying to stay positive. Just learning Castles and Crusades. Great stuff. Thanks for watching.
Sure, WotC will do a great job...as long as you don't mind a black, non-binary Elminster: "I cast the spell of 1,000 pronouns!"
Glad I wasn't drinking anything when read this lol