Why We Don't Color Grade On Computer Monitors
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2022
- Why we STILL don't use computer monitors for color grading. Though to be honest, if we had to use a computer monitor, the new Mac Studio Display is closer to useable than any one we've used before.
Your best bet will remains video output. - บันเทิง
As a freelance colorist, this video explained what I’ve wanted to explain to clients but not been great at wording and demonstrating. Super satisfying and I’ll be sending it to clients from now on.
Oh, man, that's amazing, that's like the best compliment I could get!
This is absolutely incredible Charles. Your tip about pushing the client to view the video where you want them to is huge because I always find myself in these situations with inconsistent colors.
Excellent comprehensive discussion on grading and monitor and app display differences. Kind of loving the red focus peaking for the displays, looks very high tech, haha.
Thanks! Yeah, I was so bummed about that (trying out a new workflow and forgot to check that), but yeah, the red lines give a vibe. Eventually the channel will stop being low-fi, but not today.
The most down to earth breakdown on TH-cam. Thank you so much for making this video.
comments like that make me want to make more videos! thanks.
Don't forget the Reference mode in monitor preferences (STUDIO DISPLAY / XDR DISPLAY ONLY). You will notice some more accuracy by using 709 or P3 DCI when you work on theses spaces.
Do you guys use this 709 mode ? I used before understand that most don’t have anymore 100 nits monitor so I grade in display p3 mode but not 100% luminosity (I take off 2 square).
Thank you sooooo much for this. I color for web and there is just so much information out there I've absorbed. Easy to get lost in the weeds. Just got a studio display today and finally got things to where I want them to be. Your knowledge helped a lot and I look forward to getting a proper monitor one day.
What monitor are you using?
all the information in this video is misleading or wrong except for one part - you can indeed get accurate color from BlackMagic breakout boxes or dongles (provided you calibrate your display). All the rest was comparing oranges to apples.
OMG, from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU! I was going crazy, not finding any information on this. Really Thank you for making this video!!!!!
I'M SO GLAD! What a response.
this video is 90% misleading, all his comparisons are flawed, the only thing that saved him is that he is using breakout box for clean video and a calibrated monitor to grade. That part works and is OK. All the rest of his video is pure wild imagination.
90% of this video is talking about that breakout box :) What is it that he is getting wrong?@@sunlit777
Have you color-calibrated all the PC monitors though? Comparing uncalibrated monitors to calibrated monitors isn't going to give a very good result in general.
Absolutely, this whole video is a joke - he compares uncalibrated monitors and then compares Davinci Resolve with wrong color settings to Final Cut Pro which unlike Davinci is color managed by default and then proceeds to pronounce some preposterous conclusions!
All the comparisons are just showing different players and software that are either color managed or not color managed. And Apple is the worst for Colorsync not recognizing the transfer function when a file gets tagged 1-2-1 which most software tag a Rec709 gamma 2.4 - This is because the NCLC tags have no specification for rec709 in the transfer tag - NCLC specified the number 2 as undefined.
So colorsync on an apple ignores the display transfer part and applies the camera gamma of 1.96
So if you graded in Davinci and output gamma 2.4 - having that same file displayed at 1.96 will look washed out with less saturation.
Using the ultrastudio Monitor that you kept holding up - bypasses Colorsync output to the monitor and you view the display at only what you calibrated it to. So if it is calibrated at rec709 gamma 2.4 - that's exactly what you get. The SDI connections would only make a difference if the cable was long - a short HDMI that is plugged in snug won't change the color- if it does you have a bad cable.
On a Mac that has a built in monitor you should turn on in preferences to use Mac OS profiles for displays.
Your voice and confidence is really good though. Just found that sliding the software from an Apple display to the HP = they clearly aren't calibrated correctly - not sure what the point was or the conclusions. The main point for all new colorists is that you need a breakout box and a display that is calibrated and holds the calibration LUT in the display. Because especially on a MAC, Colorsync will interpret your footage and not always return the correct color space and gamma. Grading needs to be done with all standards in place and consistent throughout.
I do agree that you client needs to see something that you can both rely on. I know of a few studios that send a client the new Ipad with the software loaded and checked for accuracy as a client preview and they when the project is finished they pay for the courier return on the ipad.
+1 to this.
Thank you for sounding the voice of sanity here - the video creator is just as clueless about color management as most commenters here thanking him for his totally clueless and misleading video!
its funny how most of the commenters are praising this video when in fact it is full of misleading info and pure blunder. He just compared calibrated vs non-calibrated display, then a bunch of color-managed (but not all properly configured) apps vs a bunch of non-color managed apps - observed that they all show different images and made one conclusion that the only way to get accurate color is to use a break-out dongle. While the conclusion is partly correct - in that you can achieve accurate color with that dongle, it is totally wrong in the part that it is the only way possible. If he took some time to setup his Davinci Resolve properly he won't get deviation from picture in Final Cut pro (which is automatically color-managed by default on Mac, unlike Davinci), if he took trouble to calibrate his Studio display, he wouldn't see that much difference between it and the external reference display, etc. etc...
Thank you for this. EE, but not much knowledge in video. Still, old boy still learning.
@@sunlit777 you are totally right about it in terms of viewing it in different softwares like premiere, final cut and davinci. what I still find fascinating is the fact that different browsers and players give totally different results. thats the one that frustrate me the most as a colorist. as it is for me, I only trust my calibrated flanders linked to a decklink card AND my calibrated benq monitor. they are very close to one another but yes, still some differences. I have a very unpopular opinion about that whole problem. it actually - except when doing stuff for cinema or broadcasts - doesn't really matter. there is no way anybody else will see the exact same image as you did when color grading it. thats actually the sad part about it ^^ since remote grading has become a lot more popular, it always feels more like a guessing game rather than anything else. you get feedback based off of the device your client views the grade. I typically tend to ask for an iPad and ask them to download the black magic monitor app streaming the feed via this. but still, it`s guessing and no exact science. since we as professionals don`t have the power to set up and calibrate each and every laptop, computer monitor, display, whatever, it's almost as if it acutally doesn't really matter. ^^ one very IMPORTANT thing that needs to be done correctly: the image pipeline has to be set up correctly either way. if your display/montiro is set to a wrong gamut and gamma than your software is told to output, then it`s 100% incorrect.
A valuable lesson. Thanks for this video!
What a fantastic video I had no idea but it makes so much sense. Do you think it’s the same for stills? I suppose photoshop, capture one, instagram, safari, chrome all have some form of processing.
I m glad i found you . This video helps me a lot . So thank you !
He compares two different UNCALIBRATED displays and tries to teach you about color! He could not even set up his Davinci Resolve to match Final Cut pro on one and the same mac gui display, how can he help you in any way?!
I understand that it's very necessary to have a calibrated broadcast monitor for grading. at the same time, I know I can't afford one right now. I bought an MSI GS60 laptop and it has one of the best screens I have ever used in my life. the colors are pretty accurate and they stuck more to accurate colors than resolution because it is a 1080 monitor... I know I have to compensate on gamma and contrast by a little (just by a hair which is pretty negligible) when I look at the scopes. The MSI laptop in my view has better colors than the mac studio I used the other day. I graded a short film, exported a DCI, and watched the film in the theatre and it held up really nicely. I would love for you to do a comparison with an MSI laptop.
Yeah I think they are using a higher end lg display in that model, that will be better than the 5k LG display in the apple studio. I have a gigabyte display on my lappy and have a P3 colour profile for it that works quite well (although it is not bright enough to do proper HDR mastering). But getting a room when you have minimal light pollution is the hard part with that.
Thanks really cool! Do you have some vids about which monitor to use (full apple user: MBP 14" M1) I was looking forward to buy the studio monitor. Another great topic nowadays: How to grade using the monitor on a MBP 2021 or late. You know like when ppl started to produce content in 9:16 I am sure some would not like to color grade in a normal monitor, but the times give us those tools, it'd be nice to know how can I use my monitor at the best for color grading. Thanks for this amazing vid.
Thank you for making this video. Looking forward to more videos like this. 🙏🏻💯🤗
What model is your Small HD monitor?
you mean more videos comparing a calibrated display to an uncalibrated one, then comparing a color managed app to a non-color managed one, and wondering why the picture is different on all of them?
The mac studio display is also only 95% DCI P3 accurate, it's white points are off compared to the DCI standards and there are a couple compression issues (From recollection in green). Better (and cheaper) to get a great oled display (or get the same display as the mac for 1/3 the price and it works on PC from LG).
I wouldn't even bother using Chrome or another webbrowser for determining accuracy as they compress the video data into different colour spaces, especially when you do not run the video at fullscreen (as they target different profiles to make webpages 'pop') for instance Firefox allows for 10bit colours but safari only allows for 8bit (much like the video/monitor output on a mac used to compress native 10bit to 8bit FRC for output before it even hit the monitor). And while chrome allows for 10bits per channel in colour, their profile uses a much different saturation to firefox (pop in the same colours using a 10bit RGB hex and compare the windows side-by-side on 1 monitor). Chrome will also vary on an Apple compared to a PC due to the fact Apple force them to use Apples Web engine (all browsers have to use this on MacOs/iOS).
You also get a major difference between PC and Apple, Apple likes to control how the colours are displayed, profiles are a PITA to enforce on them and often output ignores them unless the monitor is also Apple-branded and high-end. Apple also do not fully support the displayport standards for cable communications.
Windows/Linux don't care because the output is handled by the graphics card drivers, as long as your card and monitor can handle profiles you can install a profile that matches them up. We used to do museum prints, reproductions of 5"x6" film stock images, as well as historical restorations and we used high-end monitors that were calibrated in 3 ways, on the PC, to the monitor and then matching up with the pigments we used, this was especially important for oil reproductions. So SDI being the standard it is is great if you want a plug and play solution for something sent as Rec709, BT2020 etc., but monitors are more than capable of displaying accurate imagery. It just takes more setup, particularly if your output varies (like with oils & pigments where every batch you print with is subtly different).
Now in the case of resolve, when you use a higher-end monitor, resolve attempts to use the correct profile for that specific monitor and this can go wrong, particularly if you have not calibrated your monitor and created a profile in the colour space you are targeting between the pc and monitor (or if the monitor is not up to spec like the apple display) or if you have not switched your monitor onto the correct mode. I am unsure about FCP as it has been 10 years since I supported videographers on it but I know the version of quicktime on the system could affect output of audio and some video greatly.
TH-cam vs vimeo is a strawman argument because not only do they use different engines, but different compression methodology. The output video from your upload is NOT the same as what you sent, they have pushed compression on the videos. So not only are you viewing a highly compressed version of your video (usually very crushed blacks), but you are viewing it on a browser which as mentioned, has their own colour profile wierdnesses.
That HP monitor is pretty low-end btw (I wouldn't use it for gaming let alone any colour-based stuff).
LG C3 panels with a high brightness are very good for consumer grade stuff and can reach 100% DCI P3 through a displayport connection (and I think a newer hdmi connection).
Hey, I'm a photographer and filmmaker and after seeing the state of the monitor market I decided to get a LG c3 as my new primary display. It is amazing! But I still don't know how to get it to colour match to my m3 macbook display, I didn't realise how off it is from the macbook display until I dragged lightroom from my macbook onto the lg c3 and noticed the lg c3 has way darker blacks.
Do I need to load a specific colour profile? Or have I not set the tc up correctly?
Also how would you connect it through display port when its video in ports are 4x hdmi 2.1?
edit: I have tried changing colour profile from what was on by default 'LG TV SSCR2' to 'Display P3' and it looks a LOT closer now, I suppose that was it, but I'd appreciate your input as you know alot more about this topic.
@@definingslawek4731 has the mac been calibrated? I know the panel in the m series lappys has some weird colour shifts (it is also not full dci p3, but apple p3 which is 95% of dci) and macos takes control of colour a lot more than other systems. Best to calibrate the c3 rather than trying to match it to an apple display.
Really informative! Thanks!
Good food for thought. My take away is that you have to pay attention to the delivery platform you are targeting. Each have their own issues and considerations. Thanks for letting us know the issues and challenges
I have gone to a lot of trouble to ensure that my entire editing workflow is directly under the control of Blackmagic Design hardware and software. This minimises the chance of any compatibility issues. A colour calibrated monitor is also essential. If a client wants to see accurate results I just invite them to view the output in my workshop.
This basically annihilates every "BEST EXPORT SETTINGS FOR TH-cam" video out there 😬
Is there a list of less than $1000 broadcast monitors somewhere?
Which preset are you Apple Studio Display? P3, 709?
Thank you for the explanation and presentation. Are there actually any plans to standardize this threw out the whole chain of software/hardware one day?
I mean, I don't work at any of the big trade groups or engineering consortiums so I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. It would be insanely difficult to try and do it. It's just one of those insane frustrations we live with as image makers.
I’m just starting to look into video editing and color grading. I want to make nature and travel videos, primarily (at least to start) with my iPhone. I was planning on using Resolve on an iPad Pro for editing while on the road and was considering an Apple Studio Display. I was thinking the studio display would give me more accurate color than the iPad screen. Now I’m totally lost on what to do, if everyone is going to be seeing it differently. I expect most people will be watching the videos via TH-cam on their phones or computers. Any advice?
Many thanks for sharing this to us. I do have an inquiry, and hopefully you can illuminate me with this subject: is it different, in Resolve, the image we see in the GUI from the image we see with the “ Clean Feed” sent to a secondary monitor?
Excellent question. I’ve never been able to get a straight answer out of anyone. “Clean Feed” seems to actually be “Fullscreen”. Please share if you’ve found out!
I belive Resolve look sat the monitor and attempts to use the right profile that should be built in on clean feed, but if it is on the local display it just uses whatever you have set in the OS/display driver for that monitor.
clean feed is just another video output - they claim it bypasses OS's video processing completely (it does not since video decoding is still done on main GPU) - so it needs a color management of its own - you profile your display and load the corrective LUT either in Davinci Resolve or in the display itself. So basically you are just switching from one color management system to another. If you get two identical displays and hook one up to built-in GPU and another to the "clean video" feed via break-out card - and then calibrate both - you should get IDENTICAL picture. Which begs a question - why bother paying 200+ dollars for an external video port dongle (made of cheapest possible chinese parts) if the end result is same?
Charles, thanks for sharing. First time I’ve seen the side by side. That really helps us understand. But this raises a question. If I output through “clean feed” in Resolve to a calibrated color grading monitor, what are the scopes showing me? Am I seeing a representation of the clean feed or the viewer in Resolve?
Oooo! That's a good question. The scope is analyzing the video signal that is being sent out over SDI/HDMI. This is why sometimes on a weird monitor your blacks will look very black in the viewer, but the scopes might not be touching full black (or vice versa). Some folks go hardcore and set up a second computer with a video input (blackmagic mini recorder) to run dedicated scope software like scopebox or it's competitors to analyze the video signal in more detail, in fact.
Thank you for this video. I would like to see another one in which you show that all 3 editing programs have the same colors via SDI on a reference monitor.
My point is if the reference monitor will show the same image in each software. (Not just the editing software.)
he could not evern set up his Davinci Resolve for proper color on GUI monitor (thats why he got a different picture in DR vs Final Cut), so if he does what your propose he'll get 3 different pictures! =)
There are spectral distributions differences between the display types, time between calibrations and metamerism that all come into play.
Just stumbled on this as Im getting ready to go OLED...glad to see it!
Budget around 6000 should I invest in a Mac Studio 5k with flanders dm241 or the apple studio pro xdr 6k display ?
Could you recommend some monitors for £1000 or under a please. Just getting into colour grading.
Also, the apple studio display has a bionic chip in it.. is that able to replace the need for an I/O device?
Your Ultra Studio Mini 4k. What are the fancier features?-Do you use them? Is the benefit of it that you get to work in 4K and there is additional ports in the back? Thanks for your take on computer and broadcast monitors. Watched the video like 4 times!!!
good question! obviously the 4k to start, it also has input features as well (I use it with an ATEM switcher to record video into Zoom calls or OBS), and it has some nice audio features including an XLR input for microphones. very slick, but if all you are doing is grading HD (r grading 4k and monitoring in HD), the mini is killer too.
@@CharlesHaine Ultra Studio 4k Mini arrived today. Very Happy with it! Going to get a broadcast monitor like you reco'd too. Also, I just realized you are also the author of Colorgrading 101! AMAZING!
the author of colorgrading 101 was comparing calibrated display with an uncalibrated one, then color-managed apps with non-color managed or badly configured, and then draws conclusion that the only way out is "clean video"?! Excuse me if he took a few minutes to set up his Davinci Resolve for mac color management he would get identical picture to Final Cut pro, for example. And if he calibrated both displays - he'd get almost identical picture on them. So this video is full of BS@@sergiofermin5482
Judging from the thumbnail, you guys edit on black and white monitors. No harm intended ;)
This was great (subscribed!) - quick question - if I get the apple display I shoud still calibrate it with my X-rite - right?
Actually, probably not. I've had wild results from the X-rite probes so I usually avoid them. They seem to work more for Photo workflows.
@@CharlesHaine wow - thanks for the quick reply! Just the standard monitor setting then?
@@redfacilities Yep I think so; Apple ships these in pretty good shape out of the box, and again, your best bet is a mini monitor output and a real video monitor, but it seems like they've gotten it surprisingly close out of the box.
@@CharlesHaine great info Charles - looking forward to the next video!
Loved this video. So just to be clear - The under '1000' option would be a combination of an output device such as DaVinci's UltraStudio3G and then pairing that with which kind of monitor? An onboard monitor such as SmallHD's stuff? Any other options? How much does the price increase for lets say this same approach but rather on a larger on board/production monitor? I currently grade on a ProArt 27inch display using both PC and Mac. Any advice for making my setup for reilebale for color? Hoping the Pro Art was a good start in your eyes!
I don't know the ProArt, but I imagine good things are happening there. Not every on-board monitor is good, but the SmallHD 702 OLED and their Cine7 lineup rule. for a bigger monitor, a used flanders for around $1k will be your best bet.
The ProArt is incredible. I use a PA32UCX daily and the 27 inch non mini-LED version too. You can hardware calibrate them combine that with a Blackmagic to send a video signal to them and you’re golden.
@@SimplySketchyGT Oh, that's good to know! I should've said "The Apple is the best monitor I've used so far for computer monitors" since I haven't tested computer monitors as widely, but now I've got to find a chance to see a ProArt in action.
That's really cool! I never thought to use my camera monitor through an Ultrastudio 3G to judge color. Can any SDI monitor be used like this as long as it can be calibrated? I have an Atomos Shinobi SDI but I can always sell it and get something better if it's gonna be dual use. It's so tiny that it really would only be good for judging the colors I'm seeing on my GUI display but that might be a huge help.
the Shinobi is pretty good, actually, you can calibrate it even, so you shold b pretty well set with it.
@@CharlesHaine! I’m gonna give it a wack and see what happens.
Thanks for the reply!
Which software is the most accurate in your opinion?
Awesome tips for a kid trying to learn editing and color grading. I'm trying to figure out what the best pc setup is for editing and color grading. I love that you mentioned the 702 OLED! It is my first time hearing about it. I have not seen it recommended before anywhere, I definitely will be checking it out. It seems that having an OLED display is just one of the best pictures you can look at. If you have a moment, could you answer some questions below?
The LG 27GN950-B is a 27" / 4k / 144hz / Nano IPS on sale for $650 - do you have an opinion on using this monitor for film editing or color grading?
The LG C2 Series 42-Inch Class OLED is pretty much the cheapest OLED I could find at around $800. I think it should be smaller as well, but do you have an opinion on using this TV as a reference monitor like you use your 702 OLED?
As for the SmallHD 702 OLED - I can't even find one to reference the price. Where did they all go?
And I guess a follow-up question - do I need an OLED to have the most accurate display for editing?
@@coltynparks5023 I mean, for editing? I think anything modern is fine. But for color, it's pretty much OLED or nothing these days. I think the LG 702 OLED has been replaced by the Cine and Ultra line (both of which are super accurate), but I'm not sure about the indie. if you can handle the size, the LG C2 is great too.
Charles is right, OLED will give you the most accurate image as you do not have to worry about the panel lighting causing misting around bright areas (check out the original Apple 5k display for a great example of terrible control of this, even a mouse cursor had a large circle of light around it). The brighter the better as it will give you more range, this is why pro monitors have started using OLED.
LG C3 and the new model are very good for colour accuracy, but you will have to load on a profile to the device to get them working properly (there's a number of tutorials on doing this) but then you end up with a kickarse display that is within a very close margin of something twice - 3 times the price (and in indy tests, better than some of the low end professional grading monitors).
I even see a little color difference between the video capture, from the computer, and the colors that were recorded from the camera pointed at the screen.
What’s that broadcast monitor called?
I am relatively new to doing color grading on a professional level. I have been noticing that the blacks seem more crushed on the studio display VS my grading monitor. I would be interested in hearing your opinion. Example: I'll edit say a wedding video, a black suit will be lower on the waveform but not crushed, I can still see detail on my grading monitor but on the studio display it's pretty much flat black. Is this something you have encountered/noticed as well or is the matte finish of my grading monitor playing tricks on me?
That is precisely the kind of thing I worry about! Two monintors will look "close" to eyeballs, but those details right at the edge are very different. Wedding work is especially tricky since it's usually a black suit next to a white dress (often in very direct sunlight). Computer monitors tend to loose detail in those shadow/black areas. So some colorists tend to be more conservative there and lift them a bit, so they look "flatter" on the broadcast monitor, to be safe.
@@CharlesHaine I opened a test file on Quicktime, and then VLC; VLC looked correct to what I graded, Quicktime had the crushed blacks. I think this has to do with apple automatically interpreting things to P3 color space. Such a headache! I guess it's about learning what delivery format the client wants.
I'm not a filmmaker but I started photography 2 years ago and have spent most of my spare time processing images. I didn't know but my screen is over saturated being a gaming laptop so I done really conservative colour grading, my pictures on this screen looked vibrant and saturated and looked the same on my samsung phone. But only today I looked at my pictures on other peoples devices and they looked so washed out! It's frustrating to find out 90% of people are viewing my images looking flat and like an un-edit raw file.
Welcome to the pain we all feel! It's insane, right? To realize how little control we have over our images. even theaters aren't as consistent as they were since they realized ticket buyers didn't care about THX.
@@CharlesHaine It's crazy because if I edit my pictures to suit Mac and iphone, then they will look absolutely ridiculous on other devices 🤣 I need to find a middle ground
Get a colour checker that can make profiles, apply the profile to your monitor and bake the profile into your output and you should be ok.
hello noob here i hope i'm not too much off topic i do edit on fcpx and have a 2019 imac 5K retina display i can set the display in the system setting of my mac to this colour profiles :
iMac
ACES CG Linear (Academy Color Encoding System AP1)
Adobe RGB (1998)
Apple TV Salon
C24FG7x
Display
Display P3
Generic RGB Profile
Rec. ITU-R BT.2020-1
Rec. ITU-R BT.709-5
ROMM RGB: ISO 22028-2:2013
SMPTE RP 431-2-2007 DCI (P3)
SRGBIEC61966-2.1
which one of those profile should i choose for color correction to work inside fcpx ?
Hey Charles, would it make a difference if the Studio Display was connected via the UltraStudio 3G instead of strictly USB-C/Thunderbolt? Pardon if that is the current setup in this video from the beginning. Also, there was a Reddit post saying that the Video Clean Feed feature was implemented to output the cleanest possible signal when you don't have an I/O box. Have you heard anything about this? Thank you for a great video and taking the time produce informative content.
Video Clean Feed is a great feature IN RESOLVE. I work 99% in Resolve these days, so that would mostly work for me (and for many people), but it won't solve the issue if you are working on other programs and round tripping. If you edit in Premiere/Avid/Final Cut (which is still very common, especially Avid), then just color in Resolve, still need a box. But yeah if you are just editing in Resolve, and coloring in Resolve, Video Clean feed paired with the Studio Display works about as well as it can.
Thanks for the response, Charles! Glad to hear video clean feed is a great solution.
Ok cool, but what if you're only delivering for the web and not broadcast?
So, did you actually calibrate the PC monitors first? And did you make sure to get a good PC monitor to begin with?
no, he compared his un-calibrated Apple Studio display to calibrated reference monitor and proceeded to make his conclusions on those grounds! Only 2-3 commenters actually caught on to his totally erroneous and misleading comparisons.
Hi Charles !
I’m not a colorist , but I’m going to shoot a documentary . I was thinking to buy a SmallHD monitor for when I’m editing , maybe even Vision 24 which costs 15k. But , what I’m confused about : if I buy this monitor and spend so much money, I’ll still plug it with HDMI to my MacBook Pro, won’t it have the same problem of getting different signals from Premiere versus Resolve ?
Thanks for the input :-)
And great video !
Yes. You'll want to use an I/O device connected to your Thunderbolt 3/4 port.
I want to record some podcast video/streaming using my Sony a1 in OBS. I've worked and worked trying to get it to give me acceptable color. I've created a Lut or two in Premiere Pro with unacceptable results. 😢Any ideas?
Main difference is that the reference monitor is most probably rec. 709 gamma 2.4 while computer displays ans web use srgb and 2.2 gamma. So if you're delivering for web it's better to calibrate your display to srgb and 2.2 gamma
Premiere will use its internal engine to make the viewer show you 709 2.4 using the icc profile. I’ve played the game of calibrating the monitor to 2.2 and premiere just doesn’t care. Resolve on the other hand works like a dream.
Monitors have been up to DCI P3 for a while now with 10bit colour (I have had my phillips 10bit for 5 years) and you can get many in gamma 2.4. SRGB is a standard like any other, most monitors are way beyond that now.
Not to de-emphasize the importance of a proper color grading monitor and an SDI output, just a today's note : Loading up the same file in Resolve, Premiere and VLC on an Eizo CG monitor gives me an identical image so as I understand and see, these particular software read the file in the same way. Quicktime of course gives me the usual gamma shift. The monitor itself is connected through Thunderbolt and is being used as a GUI monitor, so nothing fancy on that end. Honestly, having 3 calibrated displays in my sight right now (macbook pro 2021, eizo cg279x and an LG OLED tv) I can't seem to spot any wild color temperature discrepancies your monitors show up in this video. Regarding the differences between Chrome, Safari etc, same experience as yours.
My camera captures in 12 bit colour. Most monitors and TV's are 8 bit colour. There are production monitors that handle 10 bit colour, but they are very expensive. FRC, frame rate control, tempral dithering and is a "trick of the eye" that manipulates images to mimic true 10 bit colour. Blackmagic Design Monitor PCIe cards are 10 bit color, but you need a proper monitor to give proper results.
I’m guessing all your monitors are calibrated with the same hardware. Also what happens if you connect your monitor to the UltraStudio? Does it gets better?
Computer monitors are still just not designed for video, they dont' have SDI inputs, etc. I'd still just rather just a video monitor to color grade.
I could be wrong, but I had to do a lot of tinkering to get my XDR display to play nice with Resolve and while I'm sure it's not an ideal set up for high level colorist work, with a few settings like enabling color management and 10 bit as well as setting up the color space in the timeline correctly, I was basically able to get an accurate display from resolve. I would look into it because when configured correctly it shouldn't be THAT much off. I think this is just a case of color management.
The ASUS ProArt displays are superior in my experience. I use a PA32UCX.
Hi. Can you help me? I want configurate my XDR display (MacBook Pro m1) for play nice with Resolve like you. What I need to do?
@@oscarabello84 I think if you use make sure your timeline is in the rec 709 color space and rec-709A gamma space and export you should be good. I will change my color space so that it is Davinci Wide Gammut and uncheck the box that says auto (or whatever box enables you to change your gamma settings to rec709-A) and then make sure you export with the gamma tag rec709-A
This is the exact problem a lot of prosumers have, they do not setup colour profiles and they do not switch the monitor modes.
And how would you rate the 16" MacBook xdd?
MacBook Pro's display is called Retina XDR not xdd, and it is pretty accurate especially in reference modes
So does it even make sense to invest in a color grading monitor, such as Eivo or benq?
Nope!
When I worked by windows 11, should I use the gpu hdmi output to double displays? one is my old display to add node and do edit ,th other display use the resolve's out clean signal to itself, If I do this ,can I get the same view without IO card?
Unfortunately no. You really, really need to go out through a video adapter, the second output of your graphics card doesn't give you video, it gives you graphics!
@@CharlesHaine Thank you so much, I ready to buy a 4K monitor decklin in few days. Thank you reply me!
@@CharlesHaine If we have a io card，should we still buy a sdi to hdmi lutbox？Because my monitor is cheaper, it cant save 3Dlut.
@@user-gd6pj6oh8p Only if you have some method for generating a calibration LUT; you need to probe the monitor, which either means buying a real probe ($6500!) or hiring a calibration service. Without that, no need for the LUT box.
@@CharlesHaine Thank you so much！
do you use reference modes on apple studio display?
I've found that works pretty darn well with Resolve, but it doesn't solve the youtube/vimeo/safari/chrome issue, so won't really sort things for clients.
@@CharlesHaine yeah..thats another thing.. if you want your video look good on iphones for example.. you want to master your grade for iphones right? but then its not industry standard but only iphone standard.. right
@@getmarked Same drama; Instagram doesn't look like TikTok doesn't look like Safari on iPhone. Iphone 10/12/13/14 all have roughly the same screen, and it's pretty consistent, so that this point its software, not hardware. You'll make a video and it looks perfect in something like the frame.io app, but then it'll look different in instagram. it's just about testing over and over again then building a setup for each output.
@@CharlesHaine Hey man, its me again, is there any way I can monitor how it is going to look on ios devices in my davinci viewer? ios display is standart srgb with 2.2 gamma.. so should I just uncheck "Macs display profiles" so the viewers defaults to srgb or what? thanks
they need to make much better output wires also
Why not set up a grading profile on your mac, and calibrate it with a test pattern open in your software? Would this not “get you there” without the external SDI display? For all other non-grading uses, just flip back to the standard display profile. Am I missing something?
On the flip side, if you know your delivery is web-only, it appears the standard software interpretation is closes to browser displays, so the SDI is only helpful for content trafficking to broadcast.
That still doesn't address the software issue of how different footage looks in Final Cut Pro X, Premiere, Resolve, and MC!
many corporates use windows laptops with HD screens and very veryy ultra poor colors, like 80 pc s RGB or something. and have a little blueish cast they dont know what color calibration is etc....best is to do in person review if possible with explanation of drivers etc...
So how do you color grade with artistic intent with so much confusion? Even if you are taking into account your clients display setup, the content is eventually going to be delivered to all sorts of people on all sorts of displays. It really seems to suck that clouds are saturated and warm on a standard monitor while being desaturated and relatively cool on the accurate display.
Its a never ending cycle of frustration. Essentially we are at the mercy of other peoples
TV/monitor settings at the end of the day.
You can't really account for everybody's monitor. All you can do is to create a properly-balanced image on a calibrated screen via a clean signal. While clients will always come back and say that it looks "Too blue on this monitor I picked up at Goodwill," that is on them. The best reply is to ask when they last had their monitor calibrated. Of course if they're the one paying you, I recommend stating that what you provided is accurate but for the low low added cost of $__,____.__, you will be happy to tweak to their particular liking.
Wow!! I feel like a dumbass... i had no idea! And its supposed to be my job.. thank you for this valuable input
I bought factory calibrated monitor just for color work
Speaking as someone who uses the new ASUS ProArt displays. The Mac Studio Display is NOT the best you can use. Especially when you can get a ProArt for much better price points.
The points about the colour engines being all over the shop is totally correct and has been making my life at work a nightmare.
Hello. Which model are you using? I'm seriously considering an ASUS PA.
Problem with Asus is that I don't trust the brand anymore. They lied to me about a purchased product. I think the Dell 2720Q is also a good option.
If the software introduces part of the problem, isn’t that a problem on any monitor, including a reference monitor, since you’re using the software to color grade? I’m probably just missing an element of how this pipeline works!
The issue is with how the software shows video on a computer screen! There's a pretty set standard for "how to show video through a video output device" so it looks the same no matter what software drives it.
That's where using the blackmagic ultrastudio monitor 3g or similar device comes in. It bypasses the software and OSs color interpretation.
I hope you turned off True Tone settings…😁
Honestly, when I'm NOT color grading, I do turn those on since I like the warmer imagery at night. But even with TruTone on or off doesn't matter: the issue is that once you put it through safari/chrome/firefox, or youtube/vimeo, it still looks different software to software.
On my phone your face looks pink and your beard looks green. 😆🥴 Also in the shot from behind your neck looks bright red... 😂
194 subed
but you're using mac OS which is notoriously bad for colors
Apple was the one who INVENTED color management in the first place, and they perfected it over 30+ years! Mac's been the platform of choice for countless professionals working on color critical tasks. If the author of the video took some time to learn how to set up Davinci Resolve on mac so that it actually uses Mac's color management he'd get same picture in both Davinci and Final Cut, and he'd never need the breakout card with that tiny external "reference" screen
@@sunlit777 oh I didn't know Apple invented color management
so how do you pronounce Mac OS "notoriously bad for colors"?! Apple was THE FIRST company to ever come up with a color display on a personal computer way back in 1977! Then in late 80-ies and early 90-ies they were the first to introduce color management on personal computers. They were also pioneers in color management on mobile devices @@McDudes
Dude is clueless! If he brings up same video in Final Cut and Davinci and they don’t look same it means only one thing - his davinci is not properly set up for mac color management. If set up properly both should show identical image! Same with external monitor via sdi - if properly calibrated there simply CANNOT BE such glaring difference between displays!
I've done this for a living since 2009.
thats a strong one! =) @@CharlesHaine
@@CharlesHaineokay, I don’t mean to be rude, but it seems like your whole video is the result of not configuring proper color management on your computer and editing/coloring software, or of not calibrating your monitor, or both. Or maybe every video clip you are processing is missing metadata for color space/temp/gamma for some reason and only that little display is configured to assume Rec 709. Either way something isn’t adding up here.
Dude, switch to PC! 😆
Lololololololol PC is EVEN WORSE ON THIS