i feel like in gen 9 this goes both ways for stall and ho, in stall u have boots unkillable regen unaware core, and in ho u have mono STAB setup sweeper pressure and imo both are rlly not that fun to play with or against
i feel like the best way to describe it is stall is "your plan is to be broken last by all means" while ho is "your plan is to break them first by all means"
It should be noted that this is playing difficulty, not teambuilding difficulty. A video with playstyles ranked from easier to harder to build teams for would be interesting
@@pinkacross2042 If you can get a team that works around it, sure, but as you said, “Gonna have to pack away all my balance teams for permanent storage if that thing stays”. We’ll just have to wait and see if it gets any better.
I used to play HO, only playing online for a few months, then I came across your channel and switched to offense, I’ve gotten better but definitely notice when I make a bad read lol
@@pinkacross2042 Yeee. FYI I tried to share it with a friend but they were offended by thumbnail (citing the ableism which permeates gaming culture) and decided not to watch any of your videos because of it, which is quite a shame. I can not say I agree with them but I figured you might want to know for viewership stats or whatnot.
HO being braindead is genuinely sad, because building an HO team that doesn't fold to a hard matchups is genuinely one of the hardest things to do in the builder Playing it however
@@Blanktester685 I don’t want to play 30 minute matches either. I just don’t enjoy linear HO where you set up with every mon and attack until it dies. I like offense, bulky offense, balance - anything with pivots/backbone and wincons.
I once heard a saying that goes like this: the closest parts in a horseshoe are the extremes. I guess this applies to Pokémon seeing as how Stall and HO are so different, yet so easy to play
The problem i have with these kind of idealistic rankings is that it doesn't take into acount the pokemon pool and metagame we currently have, sure offense is harder than most other playstyle in theory, but in practice, some offense teams can be very easy to use and other be very hard, most of the time it is a question of match up and who you are facing. I am sure HO is easy to play, however, if you end up playing only HO mirror matchups would that still be relevant? I think this video is incomplete until you have talked about the rankings in term of difficulty to build and in terms of influence on the meta. But cool video nonetheless
Personally would have switched HO and Stall, especially before you reach the very top of the ladder, it's much easier to win games mindlessly with HO than Stall. Other than that, totally agree with all the placements
@@InsertFunnyThingHere Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. Whenever I run into stall mid-ladder, I'm happy because it's pretty much a free win, you need to be at least somewhat competent to make it work
@@firstwavenegativity6379 also while it doesn't have much to do with skill it's worth noting that a lot of stall teams seem to be built to counter specific pokemon in the meta, so some guy on midlader pulling up with some random NU weirdo or using some guimmicky set can potentially catch you off guard and leave a massive hole in your team.
@@InsertFunnyThingHere I would agree, very good assessment-- that's why I clarified I was discussing top level, HO is definitely easier at a mid, low, and perhaps even high level one could argue.
@@pinkacross2042 the thing with stall is once you get the basics right they sorta apply to basically every matchup, while I feel HO probably requires a bit more knowledge on each individual interaction with each pokemon. But that's sorta just the vibe I'm getting as a complete low ladder shitter lmfao
hyper offense is amazing its got alot of skill but thats more in team building and mindset, not so much actual play and predicts. you need a very future focussed mindset as a HO player. the momentum cannot stop. id say dont run HO in singles, go for a doubles format, options up so much more in team building. legit tailwind is so awesome, though note i played in gen 6 so talonflame was certfied destructive force. especially cause leads are so predictable in doubles OU, your opponent always wants sand or trick room up, things like weavile with coverage lowkick just guaranteed a ohko turn one against common leads. in singles have some shame and some defensive mons, there is no format better for defensive mons, so play it there as there is no better place to learn those skills and thus in your opponents head.
Fighting stall is fun if you have a good team: - Hype as hell reads that change the course of the game completely - "mmmry favrotie has swods danc and is funi!!" Any mon with SD can do that. How about a shitmon that slaps on an expert belt and nukes the opponent's entire team with prediction? Click buttons and win, but with skill (and style!) - The low speed of stall teams allows for niche mons to be picked and destroy it - Fed up with being walled? Forfeit! Stall games can be just as fast as HO games if you can see both team's structures properly - Punish your opponent and beat them in 3 moves if they start playing too safely - The importance of seeing your outings, midground plays, and using information to your advantage (much more important than reads) activelt makes you a better player every time you play vs. Stall
I feel like hyper offense and stall should be switched because of the factor at 7:21 - how well the team can handle mistakes. Yes, the individual choices a stall player makes are roughly as easy as an HO player does, but stall is very sensitive to mistakes that cause cascading issues in a way HO doesn't. edit: aaaaand he said that thirty seconds later. Whoops.
Switching costs more momentum and leaves you at greater risk of taking a lot of extra damage when your team is full of frail attackers, and I'm not sure you should always depend on any immunities of theirs to consistently bail you out of taking damage on a switch.
Great response from @shenFen-jf2jk, HO teams prefer to maintain momentum by sacking-- they aren't designed for defensive play so they maneuver by letting pokemon die (usually).
I would have said offense since Moltres itself + Gambit dhengo & dragonite can take shots. Every game I would at least once or twice, switch to a pokemon that will take a hit or use its immunity.
I feel like one point about stall, especially using it against less experienced players, is it a team style that waits for them to make a mistake, or overpredict, while you can often make the safe play every time. It takes patience to play, but is very linear and not very punishing at a lower level. At a higher level its different,because good players will repeatedly punish safe plays from the stall player, so its not necessarily easy to master, but easy to play at low/mid ladder. Its a very reactive playstyle that wont punish you for making reads, and only at a higher level will you ever need to make those reads
i find it interesting that a lot of the most popular samples and forum teams seem to be bulky offense. anecdotally ive found the most success playing bo and i think that's because if you can pilot a bo team well, you have an extremely wide range of matchups that are favorable to you. my perspective is slightly biased against semistall/balance though because im a very impatient player
Pinkacross, do you consider this archetypes to exist in old gens as well? I like to watch Gen IX, but play Gen III and am curious if you think these labels would still apply, or if they would be condensed in older metagames with less overall options in terms of Pokémon, items, abilities, etc
Honestly can't say for sure, but these ratings theoretically should apply across generations. That being said, there's a lot of factors that can change that such as which pokemon are available in the metagame and how they are played
@@pinkacross2042this is exactly what goes thru both players minds when one person has a stall team and i jus cant imagine that in ant other comp game i play 😭
The gliscor clip for stall brought me PTSD from Sword and Shield OU, god thanks they limited the distribution of knock off so this kind of phase is more rare, even if the combo of bulk + status immunity + healing still exists and is annoying
I've never considered Bulky Balance to be its own playstyle instead teams fall into a nearby archetype. Semi-Stall has offensive Pokémon to finish matches where as Balance uses offense to take pressure away from their defensive core.
Hmmm IMHO the simplest way to explain semistall is that it is very much a stall team but it does have a clear wincon (Classic stall has no wincon, it just attritions you into dust). Imagine a full stall team with sd kingambit randomly thrown into the mix
I don't agree. Semistall isn't differentiated by having a wincon, it's differentiated by having a progress-maker. Kingambit is a wincon, but not a progress maker. An HDB Meowscarada on hstack, on the other hand, is a progress maker.
How do HO teams consistently break through unaware mons? You can't boost past them and if your matchup isn' like Kimgambit vs Clefable you often need two crits in a row to kill them.
So I have a team of a fast offensive Gholdengo and Dragapult, bulky attackers in rillaboom and kingambit, and defensive Pokémon like Gliscor and Zamazenta. With no dedicated lead, what kind of team is this?
I would switch stall and HO but besides that the list is good. Maybe it’s because I am middle skill level, but I play HO when I don’t want to think when playing and still win. Maybe that’s because I am thinking of screens HO which is even easier than screenless HO.
ive genuinely never played stall of ho im more of a balance bulky offense, and standard offense kinda guy, i need to use more standard defensive teams too tbh. oh yeah im a gen7 player btw
There is certainly value in using stall and HO, especially if you're in the tournament scene. If your opponent knows you won't bring stall or HO, you become a LOT easier to prepare for.
I think bulky offense and offense is more "hard to build" then hard to play. Also most pokemon uncontroversially banned to ubers like flutter mane, lando-I, palafin, etc are all offense mons, meaning these playstyles cannot actually be dominant for a healthy meta.
Maybe I am just an intermediate level player, however, I have played at least 50 matches against an opponent playing stall, clicking the same sequence of moves with the same pokemon. For me, "Braindead" play as well. I have been just as angry against Skarmory as I have Latios.
I feel like bulky offense is kind of overrated in terms of difficulty. In the current metagame all the biggest threats are bulky set-up mons like tusk, dnite and kyurem that really only need one turn to set up and dismantle the enemy's core. Mainly because of the offensively oriented metagame due to tera giving free setup turns, in scarlet and violet OU i feel like balance and bulky balance are harder archetypes.
kinda interesting...I thought, balance would be the hardest (because I always have the most trouble with Balance), but maybe I just can't build good balance teams without using some lame meta pokemon, that I don't like idk same could apply to Bulky Offense...
Gen 9 made me hate both stall and HO. Sure, stall was a oppressive in gen 8 and HO was a flex, but gen 9 made HO way too easy and stall way too one-note
I don’t think Pinka covers draft leagues. Something like Balance, Bulky Offense and Sun (in this gen anyways) are usually the most consistent. It’s easier to just build a team around your round 1 picks like Valiant, Gouge and Pult and start working from there.
A team that can run both Bulky Offense and Hyper Offense (not in the literal same team but in the teambuilder) are probably good ones as well. I once ran Screens Grimmsnarl + Alomomola + Iron Treads + Galarian Weezing alongside Latias, Landorus-I, Tera Sneasler and Baxcalibur. I could just as easily run screens set-up spam with this team as much as I can play a pivoting game around Treads and Mola positioning my Sneasler and Bax. Overall, I went 6-2 with the team. This team was my introduction to SV Draft.
I don't do draft too often but I'd say weather sucks in draft-- try to have a lot of pokemon that are generally solid and can perform many roles, DON'T try to have a theme-team (weather, terrain, etc.)
Stall is very difficult to play at a high level. No high level stall player plays purely reactively. Admittedly I’m less familiar with stall in newer gens, but the best stall teams are those that can choke out the opponent’s offensive options early on with aggressive play. If you want a playstyle that’s reactive, how about pivot-based bulky offense? I suppose it’s more of a sub-style but there’s nothing “easier” to play than volt-turn
Also, defensive teams don’t just “guess” what moves an offensive threat has, a lot of it comes from having to think about your opponent’s team composition
Every style is very difficult to play at a high level. Stall has a fundamentally simpler way of being played than volt turn and every other style of offense.
@@pinkacross2042 Sure, stall is more forgiving of mistakes but you can’t just play entirely reactively, that will get you bowled over. I’m just saying that styles based on switching moves that constantly give you momentum is a better example of a reactive play style
So being an HO player means I basically suck-? But I'm great with it man :( Oh wait, I just realized im both offendse and HO at the same time, then what am i-
I feel like the difficulty is offset by their strength. HO is rarely strong, even though HO has a low skill floor I think its one the of hardest teams to get to say 1800.
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Disagree with the claim you have 0 margin for error, I suppose you can't screw up as many turns since it produces much shorter games, but I've seen a lot of HO players (myself included) throw away pokemon for no good reason and still win the game-- no other archetype does that so frequently.
Me after I skillfully throw half the game away and sacrifice 2 pokemon that are vital to the matchups only to win with a shell smash sweep off of a single misplay from the opponent (said misplay was that he missed a move) :
I feel like this is a lazy video idea cause theyre all hard at the highest tournament level. The message a casual might get from this is a feeling of entitlement whenever playing against a stall/HO player. Could get toxic and fly in the face of improvement.
Lazy video? How ignorant. Yes, all styles are hard at a top level. Some, though, take less thought on the part of the user. Why do you think worse players facing better players often bring HO in tournaments? It's not just a big, funny coincidence. I enjoy using HO frequently-- it's a lot of fun. But archetypes have different difficulty levels and understanding this is important. Playing more difficult ones, or only playing easier ones, can hinder improvement big-time.
Stall is the most difficult because it requires long term thinking and consistent good play to take the opponent down without strong attacks. That is why stall is hated, it is too difficult. Mathematics has the same issue. People like easy. HO is the easiest because it is just brute forcing your way through a 10 turn battle. It is easy to take the opponent down with that much brute force.
@@pinkacross2042 Being the worst take you remember hearing does not say much considering your HO brain probably cannot remember further back than about 5 minutes.
I think the fact you have a hard time explaining them in a distinguishing manner makes the usage of the categories "Bulky Balance" and "Offense" superfluous. There's just 5 real bents on the spectrum: Stall, Semi-Stall, Balance, Bulky Offense, and Hyper Offense. Each can easily be explained in ways with no overlap or redundancy. Also, it should be explicitly noted that these rankings apply to Gen 9 OU, and aren't necessarily applicable to every other metagame, due to each's particular options.
I'd go even further to say there are only 3 real categories-- stall, HO, and in-between. That being said, these are what people generally consider the main archetypes so I separated them in this video.
pinkacross this is the 3rd time you've presented competitive pokemon archaetypes to the class
And the class loves it
At least for me, i could be listening to pinka talking about archetypes all day
It's "Professor Pinkacross" 😤
@@davidtoomey4712people have no respect nowadays 😔
The class needs reminders. There's always someone running BO teams with a clodsire as their ground
HO is the opposite of stall, and stall is braindead and bad because it beats me, so HO is 9000 IQ and pure skill
stall is braindead because stall teams use toxapex and i hate toxapex (and regenerator when its not on respectable mons like mienshao)
lmao, 10/10 comment for a joke comment
@@pikminman13 I'm evil because I use Pex on bulky balance.
i feel like in gen 9 this goes both ways for stall and ho, in stall u have boots unkillable regen unaware core, and in ho u have mono STAB setup sweeper pressure and imo both are rlly not that fun to play with or against
@@pikminman13pex is trash in general 9 anyways
My favorite archetype is the Exhaust Tera Early archetype and forfeiting when I lose my Tera early.
sick archetype yea
Premature teraculation?
Lokix HO is the goat, just run 6 Lokix, see that species clause? That's not gonna stop us because we can't read.
heck yea we can't
Instead of calling it stall, it should be called hyper defense for symmetry sake
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Honestly not a bad idea
Would be kinda weird to say "yeah imma play some HD team"
I instead think Hyper Offense and Offense aren't different enough so I suggest we rename HO to shitting bricks
@@InsertFunnyThingHere why not call it a tsar
Ur not fooling anyone, HO is the hardest playstyle. You know how hard it is to click dd on moon and remember the type chart when I have to attack?!?
you forgot to rate the most important style: slapping pokemon you like on a team and hope that it is something that functions
I call that "mixing playstyles"
"I dont care if triple dark is the meta, Reuniclus is staying."
Me, running Emboar (I just wanna click Banded Flare Blitz):
@@HumuhumunukunukuapaaTera fairy reuni goes hard
Fortunately for me, I like gliscor!
Obviously avalugg stall is the hardest peak style
easiest* have u ever fought an avalugg on the ladder? im surprised it hasnt been banned yet
You obviously not seen lugg offence put that man behind screens and it’s weaps
When nobody got me, I know balance got me. We love balance in this house.
We do love balance
@@bananaspice1967 ogerpon doesn't
hyper stall offence is the hardest achetype, that specs blissey sweep comes HARD
LOL the specs bliss
CM blissey in adv
Clawitzer offense is the hardest play style
If ur using a Clawtizer, yea that's pretty tough
YESSIR WE GOT HIM ON THAT WATER SPIDER PACK 🔥💯
@@Duckular You were right... It's very good!
If only we still had the other water bug mon from gen 7 😔
That mirror stall at the beginning is just painful to see, can tell it lasted long, but overall i like the video
It didn't last long, he forfeited cause he just wanted background footage.
@@LycopokySlimesy Correct! I ffd shortly after footage ended, ain't nobody got time for that
“Never Z-jaculate early”
i feel like the best way to describe it is stall is "your plan is to be broken last by all means" while ho is "your plan is to break them first by all means"
It should be noted that this is playing difficulty, not teambuilding difficulty. A video with playstyles ranked from easier to harder to build teams for would be interesting
@@robertofratello5203 Yes, that's correct-- building difficulty would be interesting and much harder to reach a conclusion on, I'd say.
That gliscor staredown in stall mirror was insane
Yea... not a fun 10 minutes of recording
Isn't that just how every Gliscor mirror goes tho
@@InsertFunnyThingHerenot if you use metronome
Now that Kyurem is back balance is the hardest archetype in gen 9 ou. Change my mind.
Doesn't really make balance harder to play, just makes it worse-- which sorta indirectly makes it harder, but not quite the same thing
@@pinkacross2042 If you can get a team that works around it, sure, but as you said, “Gonna have to pack away all my balance teams for permanent storage if that thing stays”. We’ll just have to wait and see if it gets any better.
I used to play HO, only playing online for a few months, then I came across your channel and switched to offense, I’ve gotten better but definitely notice when I make a bad read lol
Nothing wrong with playing HO-- it will just hinder growth if you only play HO.
realising your mistakes is the first step of learning
Aye, we ate well with this one. Thanks professor.
@@bm4604 You're welcome! :D
All playstyles are on a spectrum, the closer you go to either extreme (i.e, stall / HO) the more braindead the gameplay gets
Yeah, HO and stall are so braindead.
As someone who loves archetypes in every game (MTG, Pokemon, Fighting Games, etc.), I'm amazed to see these videos.
Glad you liked it! :D
Thank you for making this video, it is a super useful reference!
I'm so glad you found it helpful!
@@pinkacross2042 Yeee. FYI I tried to share it with a friend but they were offended by thumbnail (citing the ableism which permeates gaming culture) and decided not to watch any of your videos because of it, which is quite a shame. I can not say I agree with them but I figured you might want to know for viewership stats or whatnot.
Anything spreading the good word that HO is for brainlets gets a like from me
HO being braindead is genuinely sad, because building an HO team that doesn't fold to a hard matchups is genuinely one of the hardest things to do in the builder
Playing it however
True, building good HO teams is very easy but building great HO teams is very hard
anyone spreading the good word that no one wants to play 30 minute long matches gets a like from me.
@@Blanktester685 I don’t want to play 30 minute matches either. I just don’t enjoy linear HO where you set up with every mon and attack until it dies.
I like offense, bulky offense, balance - anything with pivots/backbone and wincons.
I once heard a saying that goes like this: the closest parts in a horseshoe are the extremes. I guess this applies to Pokémon seeing as how Stall and HO are so different, yet so easy to play
The problem i have with these kind of idealistic rankings is that it doesn't take into acount the pokemon pool and metagame we currently have, sure offense is harder than most other playstyle in theory, but in practice, some offense teams can be very easy to use and other be very hard, most of the time it is a question of match up and who you are facing. I am sure HO is easy to play, however, if you end up playing only HO mirror matchups would that still be relevant? I think this video is incomplete until you have talked about the rankings in term of difficulty to build and in terms of influence on the meta. But cool video nonetheless
Yes, I mentioned this at the beginning. This is an idealistic list and doesn't consider specific teams.
Clicked on this vid cos I was on the thumbnail!
@@matthewsullivan3804 Haha glad you found it humorous! I am an HO enjoyer as well
Personally would have switched HO and Stall, especially before you reach the very top of the ladder, it's much easier to win games mindlessly with HO than Stall. Other than that, totally agree with all the placements
I think the skill ceiling on stall is a bit lower than HO but the skill floor is quite a bit higher.
@@InsertFunnyThingHere Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. Whenever I run into stall mid-ladder, I'm happy because it's pretty much a free win, you need to be at least somewhat competent to make it work
@@firstwavenegativity6379 also while it doesn't have much to do with skill it's worth noting that a lot of stall teams seem to be built to counter specific pokemon in the meta, so some guy on midlader pulling up with some random NU weirdo or using some guimmicky set can potentially catch you off guard and leave a massive hole in your team.
@@InsertFunnyThingHere I would agree, very good assessment-- that's why I clarified I was discussing top level, HO is definitely easier at a mid, low, and perhaps even high level one could argue.
@@pinkacross2042 the thing with stall is once you get the basics right they sorta apply to basically every matchup, while I feel HO probably requires a bit more knowledge on each individual interaction with each pokemon.
But that's sorta just the vibe I'm getting as a complete low ladder shitter lmfao
Hardest part about playing stall is coming out to your parents
LOL
thank you for putting me in video 🙏 that’s so cool. i was telling my girl ab it, you’re the best
Glad you were happy to be featured!
I mainly play stall and HO ant honestly this is a very well made video, greatly considering the nuances of all playstyles.
i am incredibly upset that you did not cover misty terrain teams in this video. disliked.
dang how could I forget
hyper offense is amazing its got alot of skill but thats more in team building and mindset, not so much actual play and predicts. you need a very future focussed mindset as a HO player. the momentum cannot stop.
id say dont run HO in singles, go for a doubles format, options up so much more in team building. legit tailwind is so awesome, though note i played in gen 6 so talonflame was certfied destructive force. especially cause leads are so predictable in doubles OU, your opponent always wants sand or trick room up, things like weavile with coverage lowkick just guaranteed a ohko turn one against common leads.
in singles have some shame and some defensive mons, there is no format better for defensive mons, so play it there as there is no better place to learn those skills and thus in your opponents head.
Fighting stall is fun if you have a good team:
- Hype as hell reads that change the course of the game completely
- "mmmry favrotie has swods danc and is funi!!" Any mon with SD can do that. How about a shitmon that slaps on an expert belt and nukes the opponent's entire team with prediction? Click buttons and win, but with skill (and style!)
- The low speed of stall teams allows for niche mons to be picked and destroy it
- Fed up with being walled? Forfeit! Stall games can be just as fast as HO games if you can see both team's structures properly
- Punish your opponent and beat them in 3 moves if they start playing too safely
- The importance of seeing your outings, midground plays, and using information to your advantage (much more important than reads) activelt makes you a better player every time you play vs. Stall
Then the shitmon is useless against everything who isn't stall
ok but setting up spikes with gloscor and wish stalling with alomamola is so skillful and very interactive gameplay 😂😂🤡
A M E N 🗣 🙏
This but unironically
Basically HO:
Violence is never the answer, it’s a question. The answer is always yes
Good explinations, nice video! Subscribed
Thanks for the sub, glad you enjoyed the video!
Hey how did you get a picture of me in the thumbnail?
@@gil775 LOL
Great vid, will be recommending on yelp
As a balance and bulky offense player it can be tough sometimes
Please rank weather and terrain teams next
@@fnnnn5986 weather and terrain teams are usually either Offense or Hyper Offense
I feel like hyper offense and stall should be switched because of the factor at 7:21 - how well the team can handle mistakes. Yes, the individual choices a stall player makes are roughly as easy as an HO player does, but stall is very sensitive to mistakes that cause cascading issues in a way HO doesn't.
edit: aaaaand he said that thirty seconds later. Whoops.
The real game of Pokémon is stall mirrors trying to get a pp stall win con before 1000 turns.
They are invigorating... to check every hour and see what turn they're on.
i have to wonder why most hyper offense teams dont rely on an immunity core to be able to get some safe switches and manuever a bit better
They dont switch
Because HO relies on sacking to safely position its sweepers. It doesn't make sense to switch around and play defensive most of the time.
Switching costs more momentum and leaves you at greater risk of taking a lot of extra damage when your team is full of frail attackers, and I'm not sure you should always depend on any immunities of theirs to consistently bail you out of taking damage on a switch.
Great response from @shenFen-jf2jk, HO teams prefer to maintain momentum by sacking-- they aren't designed for defensive play so they maneuver by letting pokemon die (usually).
Stall players in shambles
This is one of the thumbnails of all the time
HO players have thick skin, they'll be fine
Do you mind giving me a rundown of what type of team the following is?
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Accelerock
Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sweet Veil
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Moonblast
- Stun Spore
- Light Screen
Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Make It Rain
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hex
Dragonite @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Encore
- Scale Shot
- Fire Punch
Kingambit @ Black Glasses
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Scorching Sands
- Tailwind
@@sakamad4856 sticky web = HO
Tailwind = HO
3 sweepers
Low pivots
HO
I would have said offense since Moltres itself + Gambit dhengo & dragonite can take shots. Every game I would at least once or twice, switch to a pokemon that will take a hit or use its immunity.
HO.
That gliscor mirror is the reason I play random battles
I feel ya
Balance nation is in shambles
Why lol...?
@@pinkacross2042i thought balance would be a little higher, being the thrid worse is kinda sad, i know that it isn't bad but i thought it was better
I am currently around 1600 with this team. Is there something to fix in it?
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- U-turn
- Knock Off
Iron Crown @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Tachyon Cutter
- Psyshock
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 52 Atk / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
Great Tusk @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Doesn't seem too bad, test on ladder and see what you struggle against
Ngl I was completely distracted by the amazing double custap team during the intro
Glad you were entertained lol
I feel like one point about stall, especially using it against less experienced players, is it a team style that waits for them to make a mistake, or overpredict, while you can often make the safe play every time. It takes patience to play, but is very linear and not very punishing at a lower level. At a higher level its different,because good players will repeatedly punish safe plays from the stall player, so its not necessarily easy to master, but easy to play at low/mid ladder. Its a very reactive playstyle that wont punish you for making reads, and only at a higher level will you ever need to make those reads
Stall needs to make more good reads because of the low rewards.
If im not mistaken stall needs a breaker for stall matchups
If stall has a breaker, it's not stall-- it's semistall.
You forgot galaxy brain level.
Fake Stall :3
ye lol
I came from jims channel and i am glad i did good content different from jims regular ADV
Welcome to the channel! :D
at low-mid level pokemon id say HO is about 10000x easier to play than stall
i find it interesting that a lot of the most popular samples and forum teams seem to be bulky offense. anecdotally ive found the most success playing bo and i think that's because if you can pilot a bo team well, you have an extremely wide range of matchups that are favorable to you. my perspective is slightly biased against semistall/balance though because im a very impatient player
Yea I understand, I can play semistall but full stall is awful to play, I can't take the slow pace.
Pinkacross, do you consider this archetypes to exist in old gens as well?
I like to watch Gen IX, but play Gen III and am curious if you think these labels would still apply, or if they would be condensed in older metagames with less overall options in terms of Pokémon, items, abilities, etc
Honestly can't say for sure, but these ratings theoretically should apply across generations. That being said, there's a lot of factors that can change that such as which pokemon are available in the metagame and how they are played
Pinka, do u think the semi stall team u gave is any good?
Heck no that team SUCKS, do NOT use it
@@pinkacross2042 good to know lol
Babe wake up new pinkacross video dropped
if stall is so easy why couldnt you get a replay of you actually winning with it... just me farming you, with the team i made
@@knexhawk2 Because winning would take a lot of time and energy that I don't have
@@pinkacross2042 lmao thats the sole reason i dont ever run stall my biggest fear is having to play the stall ditto
@@pinkacross2042this is exactly what goes thru both players minds when one person has a stall team and i jus cant imagine that in ant other comp game i play 😭
because nobody wants to spend 30 hours a game
@@cctz_1I mean the stall player definitely does have the time and energy
The gliscor clip for stall brought me PTSD from Sword and Shield OU, god thanks they limited the distribution of knock off so this kind of phase is more rare, even if the combo of bulk + status immunity + healing still exists and is annoying
I've never considered Bulky Balance to be its own playstyle instead teams fall into a nearby archetype.
Semi-Stall has offensive Pokémon to finish matches where as Balance uses offense to take pressure away from their defensive core.
Yea Bulky Balance and semistall is kinda the same thing, but the distinction between bulky offense and offense is made, so I figured I'd include it.
Hmmm IMHO the simplest way to explain semistall is that it is very much a stall team but it does have a clear wincon (Classic stall has no wincon, it just attritions you into dust). Imagine a full stall team with sd kingambit randomly thrown into the mix
I don't agree. Semistall isn't differentiated by having a wincon, it's differentiated by having a progress-maker. Kingambit is a wincon, but not a progress maker. An HDB Meowscarada on hstack, on the other hand, is a progress maker.
How do HO teams consistently break through unaware mons? You can't boost past them and if your matchup isn' like Kimgambit vs Clefable you often need two crits in a row to kill them.
Breakers and hazards + knock
A lot of pokemon can get past unawares. Ogerpon-W, for example, can do enough to 2-shot every Unaware wall.
So I have a team of a fast offensive Gholdengo and Dragapult, bulky attackers in rillaboom and kingambit, and defensive Pokémon like Gliscor and Zamazenta. With no dedicated lead, what kind of team is this?
A team that gets 6-0d by hazard stack (jk LOL) but seriously I'd put that one under offense
@@waaaaaaah Thanks for the help, I decided to use Cinderace instead of Dragapult, now hazard stacking teams are much more hesitant to do their thing!
I would switch stall and HO but besides that the list is good. Maybe it’s because I am middle skill level, but I play HO when I don’t want to think when playing and still win. Maybe that’s because I am thinking of screens HO which is even easier than screenless HO.
ive genuinely never played stall of ho im more of a balance bulky offense, and standard offense kinda guy, i need to use more standard defensive teams too tbh. oh yeah im a gen7 player btw
There is certainly value in using stall and HO, especially if you're in the tournament scene. If your opponent knows you won't bring stall or HO, you become a LOT easier to prepare for.
@@pinkacross2042 id definitely consider bringing it in a tournament i just have no intention of laddering with either unless its for practicing
I never really thought about it, but yeah, it makes sense that the playstyles that ignore half the game would be the easiest to play.
In general game things not really in Pokémon specificity I’ve always gravitated towards the monkey brained rush down archetypes.
I think bulky offense and offense is more "hard to build" then hard to play. Also most pokemon uncontroversially banned to ubers like flutter mane, lando-I, palafin, etc are all offense mons, meaning these playstyles cannot actually be dominant for a healthy meta.
Maybe I am just an intermediate level player,
however, I have played at least 50 matches against an opponent playing stall, clicking the same sequence of moves with the same pokemon. For me, "Braindead" play as well. I have been just as angry against Skarmory as I have Latios.
I feel like bulky offense is kind of overrated in terms of difficulty.
In the current metagame all the biggest threats are bulky set-up mons like tusk, dnite and kyurem that really only need one turn to set up and dismantle the enemy's core.
Mainly because of the offensively oriented metagame due to tera giving free setup turns, in scarlet and violet OU i feel like balance and bulky balance are harder archetypes.
Lets celebrate Kyurem being back!
kinda interesting...I thought, balance would be the hardest (because I always have the most trouble with Balance), but maybe I just can't build good balance teams without using some lame meta pokemon, that I don't like idk
same could apply to Bulky Offense...
Balance is much harder to build, but easier to play (in my opinion) than BO.
I feel like the better your opponent is the harder HO is. Still doesn’t require much skill tho.
And this is coming from an HO enthusiast.
It's like that with every archetype
HO is won and lost on the teambuilder
@@stealthy9156 true HO just has it more exaggerated
@@Comett778 i don't believe that for a second
Gen 9 made me hate both stall and HO. Sure, stall was a oppressive in gen 8 and HO was a flex, but gen 9 made HO way too easy and stall way too one-note
Is there one that's considered the best overall?
He's already done a vid ranking the archetypes; iirc the one that ranked highest was a variant of bulky balance
@@kebab2742 I'd say Bulky Offense is the best archetype in the current meta game.
Lmao, bro said theres no criticism in the video then you take a look at the thumbnail
Ehhh HO players have thick skin
What's the best team style in draft in your opinion?
I don’t think Pinka covers draft leagues. Something like Balance, Bulky Offense and Sun (in this gen anyways) are usually the most consistent. It’s easier to just build a team around your round 1 picks like Valiant, Gouge and Pult and start working from there.
A team that can run both Bulky Offense and Hyper Offense (not in the literal same team but in the teambuilder) are probably good ones as well. I once ran Screens Grimmsnarl + Alomomola + Iron Treads + Galarian Weezing alongside Latias, Landorus-I, Tera Sneasler and Baxcalibur. I could just as easily run screens set-up spam with this team as much as I can play a pivoting game around Treads and Mola positioning my Sneasler and Bax. Overall, I went 6-2 with the team. This team was my introduction to SV Draft.
@@butteredsalmonella thanks for the input fam:)
I don't do draft too often but I'd say weather sucks in draft-- try to have a lot of pokemon that are generally solid and can perform many roles, DON'T try to have a theme-team (weather, terrain, etc.)
HO is the hardest play style until you realize you don't have to build your own team.
Also archetypes ranked by building difficulty when
Probably never, building difficulty is sorta hard to say... and depends heavily on the metagame.
Saying stall is the highest skill is positively absurd my fellow sweepa. Try playing the game more than 3 minutes
Stall is very difficult to play at a high level. No high level stall player plays purely reactively. Admittedly I’m less familiar with stall in newer gens, but the best stall teams are those that can choke out the opponent’s offensive options early on with aggressive play. If you want a playstyle that’s reactive, how about pivot-based bulky offense? I suppose it’s more of a sub-style but there’s nothing “easier” to play than volt-turn
Also, defensive teams don’t just “guess” what moves an offensive threat has, a lot of it comes from having to think about your opponent’s team composition
Every style is very difficult to play at a high level. Stall has a fundamentally simpler way of being played than volt turn and every other style of offense.
@@pinkacross2042 Sure, stall is more forgiving of mistakes but you can’t just play entirely reactively, that will get you bowled over. I’m just saying that styles based on switching moves that constantly give you momentum is a better example of a reactive play style
do you have any offense teams i (or anyone else) could test with on ladder?
pokepast.es/1d2fd3ca46e30e09 here you go!
Obviously Miraidon is the highest skill and most difficult playstyle. Idk why they banned it from OU. Classic stall player take😂
Lol Miraidon in OU would be wild
So being an HO player means I basically suck-? But I'm great with it man :(
Oh wait, I just realized im both offendse and HO at the same time, then what am i-
For me even the easy is difficult
rip
@@pinkacross2042 Im stuck at 1180 elo and so far never got past it for a decent period of time
Stall and HO are both brainless and corny. THAT BEING SAID I don’t feel like a douche loading up latest HO. Don’t be a douche. Don’t play stall
stall is the lamest thing in any game every, how is that fun to absolutely anyone 😭
It's not, most people who use stall use because of it's consistency
I know you get farmed by stall players on the ladder lol
exactly no one wants to sit around and play out 30 minute long games.
@@Crimson67able i literally dont play the game lol idgaf im not sitting there for 30 mins
I feel like the difficulty is offset by their strength. HO is rarely strong, even though HO has a low skill floor I think its one the of hardest teams to get to say 1800.
A
thx for the comment lol
HO is 5000 IQ because you have 0 margin for error unlike regenerator boots spam :^)
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Disagree with the claim you have 0 margin for error, I suppose you can't screw up as many turns since it produces much shorter games, but I've seen a lot of HO players (myself included) throw away pokemon for no good reason and still win the game-- no other archetype does that so frequently.
Me after I skillfully throw half the game away and sacrifice 2 pokemon that are vital to the matchups only to win with a shell smash sweep off of a single misplay from the opponent (said misplay was that he missed a move) :
I feel like this is a lazy video idea cause theyre all hard at the highest tournament level. The message a casual might get from this is a feeling of entitlement whenever playing against a stall/HO player. Could get toxic and fly in the face of improvement.
Lazy video? How ignorant. Yes, all styles are hard at a top level. Some, though, take less thought on the part of the user. Why do you think worse players facing better players often bring HO in tournaments? It's not just a big, funny coincidence. I enjoy using HO frequently-- it's a lot of fun. But archetypes have different difficulty levels and understanding this is important. Playing more difficult ones, or only playing easier ones, can hinder improvement big-time.
Someone’s fav style got called easy huh 😂
Stall is the most difficult because it requires long term thinking and consistent good play to take the opponent down without strong attacks. That is why stall is hated, it is too difficult. Mathematics has the same issue. People like easy.
HO is the easiest because it is just brute forcing your way through a 10 turn battle. It is easy to take the opponent down with that much brute force.
Shorter does NOT equal easier. Saying stall is hated because it's too difficult is perhaps the worst take I've ever heard.
@@pinkacross2042 Being the worst take you remember hearing does not say much considering your HO brain probably cannot remember further back than about 5 minutes.
I think the fact you have a hard time explaining them in a distinguishing manner makes the usage of the categories "Bulky Balance" and "Offense" superfluous.
There's just 5 real bents on the spectrum: Stall, Semi-Stall, Balance, Bulky Offense, and Hyper Offense. Each can easily be explained in ways with no overlap or redundancy.
Also, it should be explicitly noted that these rankings apply to Gen 9 OU, and aren't necessarily applicable to every other metagame, due to each's particular options.
I'd go even further to say there are only 3 real categories-- stall, HO, and in-between. That being said, these are what people generally consider the main archetypes so I separated them in this video.