For all of you who watched this video, we just posted a second video. We tested more filters, we modified the "airbox", we tuned the system to match the actual vacuum levels found on my motorcycle (BMW 800GS). We then used a scientific scale to measure the collected contamination. Look for Part 2 of "Motorcycle Air Filters In The Nuclear Age" on our TH-cam channel.
Very good comparison! Thank you! But i need to add that the filter restriction (vacuum) should be measured without secondary filter. You see very little difference because the secondary filter is the makes the most restriction in the chain.
Pressure of the air filter chamber should have been monitored. As tested the pressure was the sum of the filter under test plus the secondary filter. The fan used clearly caveated when completely blocked creating less vacuum than when air flowing. Without monitoring vacuum on both sides of the secondary filter we don't know if this is partially occurring for the other filters.
I think for your next test you should take the meter and install it on your bike and measure suction at WOT with a clean filter. Then, recreate that amount of suction on the bench. You may find very different flow characteristics at real world values. Either way - I think it would be more useful. I would also like to know the micron size of the BestRestium medium and how it approximates to actual road dust.
While that would be nice, it's not really necessary. We don't need the same negative air pressure (or airflow) as the bike actually uses to get a usable test. As long as we test all the filters in the same way, the results are valid. But we do plan to use a higher vacuum system on the next test. Don't fixate on the air intake pressure of the motorcycle. We know that it needs X cubic feet of air per minute, based on engine size and RPM. An un-restricted air box (i.e.. wire mesh over the intake of the carb or fuel injector) will have relatively low negative pressure. Add a typical air box, snorkels, and air filter, and the velocity of the air will increase in order to meet the CFM needed by the engine. Here's a link to give you the amount of air your bike needs: www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/CFM.html If you paid attention to the video, there were several titles and comments about particle size. BestRestium measures 20-50 microns. We tried sorting the 20's from the 50's but it was taking too long and beer-thirty was rapidly approaching, so we abandoned that task. Actual road dust size ... now that's a good question. A lot depends on whether you're using Eastern road dust, Western road dust, Northern road dust, or Southern road dust. Then throw in the gremlin of Canadian road dust, and you've got a real bar fight on your hands. Dust comes in different sizes. This article can give you some ideas: www.coloradoci.com/bin-pdf/5270/ParticleSize.pdf ANY dust, dirt, or contamination in your engine is bad. Filters do what they can to keep it out, but some always gets thru. All you or I can do is minimize the dust as much as we can, and service the air filter when needed. Select a filter that removes as much contamination as possible, while still keeping the air flowing.
Even when the air filters clogged there was still enough "suck" from the vacuum machine that air still flowed thru the system. In my testing I never reached the point where the filters were totally blocked. The air filters still allowed air to pass thru due to the brute force of the vacuum machine. Same would be true with your motorcycle engine - it powerfully sucks air each time the piston(s) go thru their intake cycle. A dirty filter does reduce the air flow, and if the dirt is heavy enough the engine will be starved for air and performance will be lost. I've seen bikes where the filter was so bad that the engine wouldn't idle, and at highway speeds the bike only had 50% power. Understand that the suckage from the pistons is so powerful that it can cause the filter to self-destruct. When that happens the engine will ingest dirt and parts of the filter and you'll have a very bad day.
So the K&N and the UNI failed, shown by not enough vacuum to hold the plate on the end of the test chamber. however when it comes to the Guglatech filter you say there is lots of vacuum but yet you don't show it with the plate on the end of the test chamber. With the giant Guglatech sign displayed behind you I wonder which one is going to win?
Fair question at the start. Unfair at the end. The test wasn't scripted and I never intended to make the plate part of the video. Note that I also cupped the intake with my hand, trying to create suction. Neither method worked. The paper and the 2 Guglatechs easily sucked the Bt and the talc down the intake port. You can see that in the video. Look at the UV light clip and you'll see how easily the Bt flowed to the filter. Also look at how easily the talc flowed down the funnel and onto the filter. I used the plate on all the filters to create a Venturi effect which helped get all the talc into the filter. But that didn't work for K&N or UNI. I interpret that as a failure. While you may challenge the results, its not fair to challenge my integrity. Yes, I sell the Guglatech filters, but I never lie, and I never misrepresent facts. The tests you saw were done as fairly and honestly as humanly possible. Believe, or don't believe, but it's all above board. But never impugn my integrity. Yes there's a banner in the background. Someone has to pay for the costs... ME. It cost several hundred dollars in supplies and it took me 80 hours of work to put this video together. I make a few dollars on the sale of the filters but that's not my goal. I do this for fun, and for the riding community. You may now apologize. I'll give you a day to do so, then I'll delete your post and ban you from the site, Sam Spade.
There's a huge difference between a fan, which in this case pulled less than .2 of mercury, and a pump(engine), which can pull up to 20 inches or more. One inch/hg is equal to about .5 psi. Therefore 20 inches is about 10 psi of vacuum. What happens to a clogged filter at that pressure? I think the foam filter would collapse. The experiment would be more realistic if a small engine were used.
You're right. But... the purpose of the video wasn't to replicate the actual sucking power of an engine. It was to compare filters using the same protocol. They all underwent identical tests. I reported the results. So whether my fan created the same vacuum as a motor isn't really that important, unless you want to argue for the sake of arguing. In our next test will be using a higher vacuum system, and we'll take more measurements. The real data comes from what you can see with your own eyes. Does the secondary cartridge show more (or less) contamination? Stay tuned...
Jeffrey - FYI we just posted a second testing video. We "tuned" our modified system to match the vacuum levels found at the intake snorkel of my bike. We also weighed the contamination we collected in the secondary cartridge, using a scientific scale that records down to 0.001 grams. Check that video and see the results.
My point is that with a filter clogged to your 'fail' point an engine will still run, just at some less efficient level. I'm not saying your test is uninteresting or uninformative, nor am I arguing, just making an observation of fact.
When a filter clogs, two things can happen... 1.) the engine is starved of air and it will falter and die, or 2.) the engine's vacuum will be so strong that it will physically collapse the filter so the air can pass to the engine. Neither one is good. We weren't testing to the point where the filter collapsed, instead we were testing to see how much contamination actually passed thru the main filter. We would have to ramp-up vacuum levels for that to happen, but that's not our goal. We wanted to see which filter passed the most contamination. The secondary cartridge collected the crud that went thru the main filter, and you can see those results for yourself. We recognize that our test wasn't a "real-life" scenario, using a real engine, creating real vacuum levels. But who cares? We used the same vacuum levels for every filter. Each filter performed differently. Some good, some bad. Next test we'll ramp up the vacuum, we'll collect more numerical data, and we'll take more photos.
I think that if you ran your test using an engine, you'd find that a relatively huge amount of talcum powder would be required to kill an engine, much less make it "falter". I would guess that 90% of the intake area could be blocked without the engine dieing. It would run, but like it was on partial choke, which, in effect, it would be.
@@jeffryflorentine7998 yes, but what we're testing is to see contamination levels after the main filter. We don't want any talc or dirt or Bestrestium passing into the engine.
@@jeffryflorentine7998 I think you're missing something here.... ANY opening that allows air into the engine will also allow passage of contamination, if contamination is present. Whether it's a 10% restriction or a 50% restriction or something else. When the intake is restricted, the air doesn't just sit there, watching other air pass it by, instead it fights to get in thru the opening. Velocity increases and you get a Venturi effect, much like you do on a carburetor. So the introduction of a blocking plate would be counter-productive.
Thanks for creating this informative video. I also enjoyed the post credits video clips..."I used all the safety precautions!" LOL....
You deserve to sell out of every product just for doing this video! Thanks riding brothers!
For all of you who watched this video, we just posted a second video. We tested more filters, we modified the "airbox", we tuned the system to match the actual vacuum levels found on my motorcycle (BMW 800GS). We then used a scientific scale to measure the collected contamination. Look for Part 2 of "Motorcycle Air Filters In The Nuclear Age" on our TH-cam channel.
Very good comparison! Thank you! But i need to add that the filter restriction (vacuum) should be measured without secondary filter. You see very little difference because the secondary filter is the makes the most restriction in the chain.
Pressure of the air filter chamber should have been monitored. As tested the pressure was the sum of the filter under test plus the secondary filter. The fan used clearly caveated when completely blocked creating less vacuum than when air flowing. Without monitoring vacuum on both sides of the secondary filter we don't know if this is partially occurring for the other filters.
In Part 2, we'll monitor both sides, intake vacuum and vacuum after the filter.
Suggestion for step 2 of this test: Wash and re-oil the GT filter a couple of times and see if it has the same performance.
Yes, we plan to do that. We will also clean and reuse the K&N and Uni filters too.
I think for your next test you should take the meter and install it on your bike and measure suction at WOT with a clean filter. Then, recreate that amount of suction on the bench. You may find very different flow characteristics at real world values. Either way - I think it would be more useful. I would also like to know the micron size of the BestRestium medium and how it approximates to actual road dust.
While that would be nice, it's not really necessary. We don't need the same negative air pressure (or airflow) as the bike actually uses to get a usable test. As long as we test all the filters in the same way, the results are valid. But we do plan to use a higher vacuum system on the next test. Don't fixate on the air intake pressure of the motorcycle. We know that it needs X cubic feet of air per minute, based on engine size and RPM. An un-restricted air box (i.e.. wire mesh over the intake of the carb or fuel injector) will have relatively low negative pressure. Add a typical air box, snorkels, and air filter, and the velocity of the air will increase in order to meet the CFM needed by the engine. Here's a link to give you the amount of air your bike needs: www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/CFM.html
If you paid attention to the video, there were several titles and comments about particle size. BestRestium measures 20-50 microns. We tried sorting the 20's from the 50's but it was taking too long and beer-thirty was rapidly approaching, so we abandoned that task.
Actual road dust size ... now that's a good question. A lot depends on whether you're using Eastern road dust, Western road dust, Northern road dust, or Southern road dust. Then throw in the gremlin of Canadian road dust, and you've got a real bar fight on your hands. Dust comes in different sizes. This article can give you some ideas: www.coloradoci.com/bin-pdf/5270/ParticleSize.pdf
ANY dust, dirt, or contamination in your engine is bad. Filters do what they can to keep it out, but some always gets thru. All you or I can do is minimize the dust as much as we can, and service the air filter when needed. Select a filter that removes as much contamination as possible, while still keeping the air flowing.
How can the vacuum not skyrocket after the filter completely clogs? It basically stayed at the same reading as before it clogged
Even when the air filters clogged there was still enough "suck" from the vacuum machine that air still flowed thru the system. In my testing I never reached the point where the filters were totally blocked. The air filters still allowed air to pass thru due to the brute force of the vacuum machine. Same would be true with your motorcycle engine - it powerfully sucks air each time the piston(s) go thru their intake cycle. A dirty filter does reduce the air flow, and if the dirt is heavy enough the engine will be starved for air and performance will be lost. I've seen bikes where the filter was so bad that the engine wouldn't idle, and at highway speeds the bike only had 50% power. Understand that the suckage from the pistons is so powerful that it can cause the filter to self-destruct. When that happens the engine will ingest dirt and parts of the filter and you'll have a very bad day.
@@davidpetersen5531 Yes, I understand that, but the number hardly changes from clean to clogged?
So the K&N and the UNI failed, shown by not enough vacuum to hold the plate on the end of the test chamber. however when it comes to the Guglatech filter you say there is lots of vacuum but yet you don't show it with the plate on the end of the test chamber. With the giant Guglatech sign displayed behind you I wonder which one is going to win?
Fair question at the start. Unfair at the end. The test wasn't scripted and I never intended to make the plate part of the video. Note that I also cupped the intake with my hand, trying to create suction. Neither method worked.
The paper and the 2 Guglatechs easily sucked the Bt and the talc down the intake port. You can see that in the video. Look at the UV light clip and you'll see how easily the Bt flowed to the filter. Also look at how easily the talc flowed down the funnel and onto the filter.
I used the plate on all the filters to create a Venturi effect which helped get all the talc into the filter. But that didn't work for K&N or UNI. I interpret that as a failure.
While you may challenge the results, its not fair to challenge my integrity. Yes, I sell the Guglatech filters, but I never lie, and I never misrepresent facts.
The tests you saw were done as fairly and honestly as humanly possible. Believe, or don't believe, but it's all above board. But never impugn my integrity.
Yes there's a banner in the background. Someone has to pay for the costs... ME. It cost several hundred dollars in supplies and it took me 80 hours of work to put this video together. I make a few dollars on the sale of the filters but that's not my goal. I do this for fun, and for the riding community.
You may now apologize. I'll give you a day to do so, then I'll delete your post and ban you from the site, Sam Spade.
There's a huge difference between a fan, which in this case pulled less than .2 of mercury, and a pump(engine), which can pull up to 20 inches or more.
One inch/hg is equal to about .5 psi. Therefore 20 inches is about 10 psi of vacuum.
What happens to a clogged filter at that pressure? I think the foam filter would collapse.
The experiment would be more realistic if a small engine were used.
You're right. But... the purpose of the video wasn't to replicate the actual sucking power of an engine. It was to compare filters using the same protocol. They all underwent identical tests. I reported the results.
So whether my fan created the same vacuum as a motor isn't really that important, unless you want to argue for the sake of arguing.
In our next test will be using a higher vacuum system, and we'll take more measurements.
The real data comes from what you can see with your own eyes. Does the secondary cartridge show more (or less) contamination?
Stay tuned...
Jeffrey - FYI we just posted a second testing video. We "tuned" our modified system to match the vacuum levels found at the intake snorkel of my bike. We also weighed the contamination we collected in the secondary cartridge, using a scientific scale that records down to 0.001 grams. Check that video and see the results.
So they're all about the same and other than the reuse of the aftermarket options there is no point?
My point is that with a filter clogged to your 'fail' point an engine will still run, just at some less efficient level.
I'm not saying your test is uninteresting or uninformative, nor am I arguing, just making an observation of fact.
When a filter clogs, two things can happen... 1.) the engine is starved of air and it will falter and die, or 2.) the engine's vacuum will be so strong that it will physically collapse the filter so the air can pass to the engine. Neither one is good.
We weren't testing to the point where the filter collapsed, instead we were testing to see how much contamination actually passed thru the main filter. We would have to ramp-up vacuum levels for that to happen, but that's not our goal. We wanted to see which filter passed the most contamination.
The secondary cartridge collected the crud that went thru the main filter, and you can see those results for yourself.
We recognize that our test wasn't a "real-life" scenario, using a real engine, creating real vacuum levels. But who cares? We used the same vacuum levels for every filter. Each filter performed differently. Some good, some bad.
Next test we'll ramp up the vacuum, we'll collect more numerical data, and we'll take more photos.
I think that if you ran your test using an engine, you'd find that a relatively huge amount of talcum powder would be required to kill an engine, much less make it "falter". I would guess that 90% of the intake area could be blocked without the engine dieing. It would run, but like it was on partial choke, which, in effect, it would be.
@@jeffryflorentine7998 yes, but what we're testing is to see contamination levels after the main filter. We don't want any talc or dirt or Bestrestium passing into the engine.
You wouldn't need to risk particle ingestion.
Just make a plate equal to 90% (or whatever you like) of the intake area.
@@jeffryflorentine7998 I think you're missing something here.... ANY opening that allows air into the engine will also allow passage of contamination, if contamination is present. Whether it's a 10% restriction or a 50% restriction or something else. When the intake is restricted, the air doesn't just sit there, watching other air pass it by, instead it fights to get in thru the opening. Velocity increases and you get a Venturi effect, much like you do on a carburetor. So the introduction of a blocking plate would be counter-productive.