Silence - Religious Debate

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
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ความคิดเห็น • 1K

  • @zimonslot
    @zimonslot 6 ปีที่แล้ว +526

    This is what movies are missing: reasonable dialogue. This is so stimulating to the brain!!

    • @leandrocarabajal1633
      @leandrocarabajal1633 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Hollywood movies are not meant to stimulate your brain, they are meant to diverse you from thinking and make you forget your problems for a while

    • @brady2075
      @brady2075 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@leandrocarabajal1633 whatever pal

    • @ZaeUniversalCreation
      @ZaeUniversalCreation 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@leandrocarabajal1633 NO

    • @pawel8365
      @pawel8365 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I would agree, tarantino movies are full of mindless drivel when it comes to dialogue.

    • @itsallgoodman4108
      @itsallgoodman4108 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@leandrocarabajal1633what era are we talkin? I agree that hollywood since the 00s has fallen off a bit off a cliff but there are so many excellent movies from back in the day. And this film is personal to one of the last living greats from that era. Even if you didnt care for it you have to admit it was written, directed, and acted with a passion rarely seen in cinemas these days

  • @justinluc2572
    @justinluc2572 5 ปีที่แล้ว +910

    I love how simply raw this movie was. No magic, no miracles, no prophecies like how many christian movies portray god. Instead, the plot and conflict is driven by men and women struggling with faith; like how it really is.

    • @josephlee6956
      @josephlee6956 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You first Commie!

    • @nyhyl
      @nyhyl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @Doge di Amalfi Go watch Harry Potter, if you like movies of fictional books.

    • @GhostMonkey772
      @GhostMonkey772 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @Doge di Amalfi that's funny considering a lot of whats x-men is pulled from Christian themes. Professor X using Cerebro to reach the lost mutants. Magneto taking a third of the mutants to join his brotherhood. Apocalypse and his 4 horsemen.

    • @GhostMonkey772
      @GhostMonkey772 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Doge di Amalfi th-cam.com/video/YVdKq3AkfJ8/w-d-xo.html

    • @GhostMonkey772
      @GhostMonkey772 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @Doge di Amalfi
      I like this comment of what this guy said from the final part of the film where the main character steps on the image of Christ.
      "I believe that in this scene we are shown the final part of the retelling of Jesus's life. The protagonist comes bearing the Christian faith, is betrayed for money (just like Judas) and in this scene we see death. While in Jesus's times many protected themselves from physical harm, here we see a totally different type of death, death of the ego. Throughout the movie, the protagonist disregards those who are not of strong faith and acts with a 'holier-than-thou' attitude, especially towards Kichichiro. He constantly compares himself to Jesus and believes that he should die like Jesus, with strong faith and this is where he misses the mark. Jesus died for others and it was not his simple stance on faith but his love for humanity that brought him to the cross. The protagonist's ego, not his body, is what he wants to protect. The belief that he is special and holy due to his resistance to the Japanese. And finally, in this scene, he sacrifices his most valuable part of him, the only thing he truly cared for and protected, his faith, to save countless lives of his followers at a great cost to himself. He is then given a new life, a 'resurrection' of sorts.
      "
      So if there were some Christians out there pissed off at the fact he proceeded with apostasy, he did exactly as Christ would have done, choose the lives of many at great cost to himself.
      you kind of sound like the holier than thou type to me.

  • @FungWarb12
    @FungWarb12 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1458

    Liam became a weaboo and Garfield is trying to save him

    • @awakenow7147
      @awakenow7147 6 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      Hahaha holy shit

    • @ajiibshah3760
      @ajiibshah3760 6 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      Thats funny as hell

    • @mar10ssj1
      @mar10ssj1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Weeaboos are Western Heretics and should be burned to damnation. Spider Man is right on this one.

    • @roguishpaladin
      @roguishpaladin 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      When I read Garfield, I got confused and started looking for Bill Murray in these scenes.

    • @j.ericsandoval566
      @j.ericsandoval566 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Fuck Christianity.

  • @fham__7217
    @fham__7217 5 ปีที่แล้ว +911

    "No one should interfere with another mans spirit"
    *continuously tries to break spirit*

    • @ghoulish6125
      @ghoulish6125 5 ปีที่แล้ว +73

      Not to be that guy, but I think that's he whole point. There was a lot that they felt was being forced upon them and changing their ways. They took that very personally, since culture means so much to so many. They wanted to return the relentless push they felt. At least, that's how I looked at it, I could be very wrong.

    • @Charzhino
      @Charzhino 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @Afqwa i would say the metaphors are actually very relevant. Mountains & rivers can be moved but mans nature cannot be moved. In other words, allowing yourself to suffer and die for a materialistic notion of martydom is pointless, because the purity of faith is beyond materialism. The Buddhist monk was not simply saying, back off and get out of our country, he was also trying to help the padre see why his thinking of preaching/converting was fundamentally flawed.
      Great film, im glad Scorsese had the courage to show both sides of the argument

    • @siddharthnair1580
      @siddharthnair1580 4 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      They were fighting colonialism. And colonialism spreads thru the faith. After seeing what colionialism has done for the world I don’t blame the Japanese

    • @eons8941
      @eons8941 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      @@siddharthnair1580 after what japan did to China and South Korea. Japan was the biggest colonizer in the east and I know whataboutery won't take us anywhere but just saying

    • @siddharthnair1580
      @siddharthnair1580 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      バスキアス yes that’s true but that happened centuries after this.

  • @HEARD201
    @HEARD201 3 ปีที่แล้ว +425

    An atheist can see this film and a priest and both think it’s excellent. That’s why this film is such a masterpiece.

    • @Seek1878
      @Seek1878 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm an atheist and thought it was okay.

    • @Rhugor
      @Rhugor 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The book is phenomenal, and worth reading as well

    •  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I’m an antitheist and really like this movie

    • @revengance4149
      @revengance4149 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Atheist here, I really liked this movie. It's definitely thought provoking, as it gives a nuanced perspective on the topic, rather than pushing an agenda. Really makes you rethink the way we view faith and religion in general

  • @RockSmithStudio
    @RockSmithStudio 2 ปีที่แล้ว +172

    "He despised our language, our food, our customs"
    Dude couldn't imagine the concept of Weebs today

    • @unadanni
      @unadanni 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      "They worship our cartoons. It's so odd."

  • @fettfan91
    @fettfan91 ปีที่แล้ว +119

    I truly cannot tell Liam Neeson’s character believes what he is saying or is simply terrified of being punished further. Amazing acting from the master.

    • @manager4409
      @manager4409 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Raw force is the only law in this world. These other cultures understand that.

    • @squamish4244
      @squamish4244 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@manager4409 Without love, it wouldn't be worth it. So is force still greater?

    • @squamish4244
      @squamish4244 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I wish he would take more roles that get to showcase his acting talent, instead of all these action roles.

    • @zonesquestiloveunderworld
      @zonesquestiloveunderworld ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Force and violence will destroy all love and happiness regardless of the circumstances, no matter what childish wishful thinking or futile pleading with the utterly indifferent universe you engage in. All the "faith", "acceptance", "enlightenment" and "love" in the world won't lessen the pain of the fire as it sears your flesh, or calm the horrific nightmare of being mutilated, eviscerated or beheaded.

    • @Somespideronline
      @Somespideronline 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@zonesquestiloveunderworldwhat do you have then?

  • @marklvrd
    @marklvrd 6 ปีที่แล้ว +285

    Taken 5: They took my religion, and I want it back!

    • @PresidentialWinner
      @PresidentialWinner 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money... but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my converts go now, that will be the end of it - I will not look for you, I will not pursue you... but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you... and I will kill you.

    • @Mintmakeup
      @Mintmakeup 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      They took away the Holy Spirit my friend, you don’t worship a God who doesn’t answer , but a supernatural , Jesus. Clearly said I am not leaving alone but I will sent the Spirit of truth . Read the book of Acts of the Bibble

    • @valmarsiglia
      @valmarsiglia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MintmakeupNot to quibble, but the Bibble?

  • @kirinrex
    @kirinrex 5 ปีที่แล้ว +327

    Although American, I have lived in Japan for over 20 years. Japanese not only practice Buddhism, but also Shinto. In my family, we have both Buddhist and Shinto altars in our house, and visit both Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines. Shinto has gods, but most Japanese don't know the names of these gods. They are only "kami-sama": God. Likewise, Japanese doesn't really have a plural form. If I have one pencil, I have "enpitsu". If I have two pencils, I still have "enpitsu". So whether they are thinking of one god or many gods, the form is still "Kami-sama".
    The Japanese Emperor opposed Christianity for two reasons. One, at this time, the military was gaining great power, even greater power than the Emperor himself, and in Japan, the Emperor's power comes from Shinto, as the Emperor was considered to be descended from the Shinto goddess of the Sun, Amaterasu. But Shinto does not oppose the existence of other religions. This alone was not enough to raise the government's opposition.
    At this time, European powers were using Christianity as a way to gain control in non-Christian countries. Christianity was as much a political threat as a threat to traditional Japanese social customs. Once people were organized in churches, they would be used to oppose the government. The military was afraid that Christianity could likewise be used in Japan to draw power away from the Emperor (and themselves). I believe this is ultimately why they tried to destroy early Christianity.

    • @CINTERPOL
      @CINTERPOL 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      No one cares my guy

    • @matthewnelson6103
      @matthewnelson6103 5 ปีที่แล้ว +96

      @@CINTERPOL He has 40 upvotes so people do find it interesting.

    • @gordonbgraham
      @gordonbgraham 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      2本の鉛筆を持っています

    • @tulkdog
      @tulkdog 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      kirin-rex
      Tried? Didn't they succeed?

    • @kirinrex
      @kirinrex 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@tulkdog No. Christians simply got better at hiding. There aren't many Christians in Japan (only about 1%, though actually I was surprised it was that many!) However, there are churches, Catholic schools and so on, and have been ever since Christianity was brought to Japan.

  • @paulstaker8861
    @paulstaker8861 5 ปีที่แล้ว +473

    I'm not Christian but this movie moved me as much as the comment section disgusted me.
    It baffles me how people can be so vindictive and be so ignorant to the plight of others.

    • @branchy7159
      @branchy7159 5 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      ​@Olav Langlifuck you sound kinda narcissistic

    • @chrislad24
      @chrislad24 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      lol what, everyone is saying stuff like
      "obi wan a true Jedi.... He sounds like a Jedi
      "
      "Such an underrated film. One of the best in the last decade in my opinion
      "
      "He has a particular set of skills
      "
      "How can you even hate Japanese food
      "
      "Taken 5: They took my religion, and I want it back!
      "
      "Liam became a weaboo and Garfield is trying to save him
      "
      and your trying to start shit dickhead

    • @chrislad24
      @chrislad24 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Olav Langli that is simply not what evolving is what are you a Pokémon

    • @theyd2918
      @theyd2918 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@branchy7159 oh the hipocracy

    • @j.ericsandoval566
      @j.ericsandoval566 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Pen Pink actually the only narcissist on this thread is you.

  • @Rasbiff
    @Rasbiff 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

    "All the time he was here, he taught, but he would not learn..."

  • @ypraisethesun4431
    @ypraisethesun4431 6 ปีที่แล้ว +177

    I feel like non of yall watched the movie.

    • @Jaime13R
      @Jaime13R 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      And I feel like you can fuck off 🖕🏽

    • @visualsforyou7120
      @visualsforyou7120 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Jaime13R 🤨

  • @drew9344
    @drew9344 6 ปีที่แล้ว +189

    this scene is so amazing. there acting is incredible. i can’t imagine how it must feel, to see someone who mentored you in the Faith. now convincing you to change your beliefs.

    • @TheKalihiMan
      @TheKalihiMan 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      From what I hear, the entire part of Liam Neeson’s character explaining the Japanese religion was all improvised. It completely changed the intended message, and for me, was this movie’s redeeming quality.

    • @DeathtoRaiden1
      @DeathtoRaiden1 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@TheKalihiMan I find that hard to believe, ridiculous even.

    • @rouskeycarpel1436
      @rouskeycarpel1436 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Andrew Roberts Not change your beliefs,get you to understand them in a new way.

    • @matuk3200
      @matuk3200 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      no, he wasn't trying to change his beliefs, he was trying to show him the true meaning of his faith

  • @DavidSmith-rs8hw
    @DavidSmith-rs8hw 3 ปีที่แล้ว +153

    “It is not necessary to win anyone over one side to another when there is so much to share.”
    Moments later, “I’ve been told to get you to abandon the faith.”

    • @valmarsiglia
      @valmarsiglia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      That is a contradiction, but in fairness to the Japanese, the Portuguese were in their country telling them that unless they converted to Catholicism (which meant also adopting Western ways), they'd burn in hell. They were trying to get him to renounce his faith to discourage the spread of a foreign religion in their country; they didn't otherwise care what religion he believed in; they weren't trying to get him to convert to Buddhism. And let's be real here: how do you think the Portuguese would have reacted to hundreds of Japanese Buddhist missionaries in Portugal? I think the Inquisition would've had themselves a real field day torturing them all till they converted to Catholicism.

    • @melo7038
      @melo7038 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@valmarsiglia And? What's your point? the inquisitions are rightly historically seen as utter atrocities with the heads villified ever since.

    • @profile1172
      @profile1172 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@valmarsiglia Do you go on every comment section just lying thru your teeth. Saying what ifs all day.

    • @valmarsiglia
      @valmarsiglia 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@profile1172 Wow, I must've really hit a nerve, eh?

    • @supermarvelboy1
      @supermarvelboy1 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@valmarsiglia "They weren't trying to get him to convert to Buddhism". Yet they forced him to write books that debunked Christianity, they forced him to break his celibacy vows and they even stripped off his name. What was left to share? Nothing, they won him over to their side.

  • @seecha8970
    @seecha8970 5 ปีที่แล้ว +300

    You cannot convert a person to a faith. You can only present them with what you know, and allow them to make their own decision based on what they believe. Simply saying you're a Christian, doesn't make you one. I've seen non-believers act with more morals than baptized Christians and I've see baptized Christians act more immoral than non-believers. To be Christian is in the way you act, treat and talk to others. Not because you simply show up on time every Sunday morning and belong specific church or group.

    • @CivicGuard777
      @CivicGuard777 5 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      What you're saying is not necessarily true at all unless you're a Catholic, Orthodox or another denomination similar to it. Protestants believe in faith alone, meaning that only through true faith alone will you achieve salvation. The way you act is merely a consequence of what your faith is. Someone who has personally truly accepted Jesus Christ into their life and who has a continuous relationship with Him would never act overwhelmingly immoral because through his faith he will act good. These Christians you talk about might be baptized but they never truly accepted Jesus Christ in their hearts if they continued to live a sinful live. Atleast this is the protestant point of view.

    • @Rokaize
      @Rokaize 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      CivicGuard I see what you mean. But, modern Christians are generally pretty laid back in terms of salvation through belief. Most Christians, I know at least, ignore probably about 90% of the Bible. Only following Jesus’s teachings. Many I know say even Jews and Muslims go to heaven if they are good people. Which makes no sense in comparison to scripture.
      Most Christians seem to be very unwilling to condemn others just because of which faith or denomination they choose.
      But this is all just anecdotal.

    • @Rokaize
      @Rokaize 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      See Cha It’s an interesting point you have. But, I have a question.
      What say you to the Teutonic order? And the northern crusades. Poland and Lithuania were converted by the sword. Pagans were killed if they did not accept Catholicism. Would you say that’s real faith? Or just them saying that to avoid death? I don’t know the answer.
      But I do know that over time Lithuania and Poland did eventually overwhelmingly accept Catholicism. How would that work exactly? When it was originally forced upon them under threat of death.

    • @CivicGuard777
      @CivicGuard777 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Rokaize This is true and that is why we see a lot more immorality within Christian communities. Since people become less dependant on faith they become more immoral as a consequence. They forget that one of the clearest messages of the Bible is that only through Christ could one ever come to the Father.

    • @rhomarencantojr.5391
      @rhomarencantojr.5391 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes you got it right and I agree with you there, like the apostles did before they were preaching to the people but the difference between the apostles and to the modern Christians is they are not forcing people to the faith even Jesus do same thing as well he let people decide themselves if they didn't like his teaching he let them.

  • @azazel166
    @azazel166 3 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    Ironically, the Japanese were pretty hostile towards Buddhism when it first came.

    • @TheKalihiMan
      @TheKalihiMan ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Yes, but Buddhism eventually gained acceptance when it coexisted and syncretized with existing traditions rather than attempt to supplant them like Catholicism did. Even the word Francis Xavier used to communicate the closest equivalent to the Abrahamic God (Dainichi) was an already existing concept which syncretized the ultimate enlightened form of the Gautama Buddha with the Shinto sun goddess Amaterasu, and early converts and religious authorities in all likelihood believed he was merely trying to communicate yet another facet of this concept. It was only when he realized his “converts” were not supplanting their old beliefs but merely incorporating what he had preached into their existing practices that he stopped using the term, and when local authorities grew less tolerant of him proselytizing an actual rival religion.

    • @saintniccage2818
      @saintniccage2818 ปีที่แล้ว

      Japan were hostile to any and everyone

  • @wallywest9257
    @wallywest9257 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    Andrew: "You're a disgrace"
    Liam: "Yeah, but watch this Anime real quick"

  • @roydamanna
    @roydamanna 7 ปีที่แล้ว +256

    "Some people seem to mistake Objectivity for Negativity, and wishful-thinking for Positivity."
    "Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    • @Emp6ft10in
      @Emp6ft10in 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Friedrich Nietzsche was very "woke".

    • @Emp6ft10in
      @Emp6ft10in 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Nietzsche's teachings aren't for people at your lower level so your reaction is understandable.

    • @Herberberber
      @Herberberber 6 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      Yet another pseudo intellectual follower of Nietzsche. Assuming I am from the U.S., assuming what religion I believe in. People like you quote and believe Nietzsche but in reality its people like you that don't even know Nietzsche or his ideas. You champion Nietzsche as this anti religions figure that somehow makes you superior to a theist when you prattle off one of his quotes but in reality if you lived in a society where God was really dead and Nietzsche's new morality was cultivated you would be a victim almost immediately. Nietzsche didn't believe in equality or other religious altruistic beliefs that people like you benefit from but feel superior to. Sorry Blah b, you would be one of the subjugated Nietzsche mentions, along with all the other NEET overweight atheists who haven't a clue.

    •  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +Dr. Death
      So you whine about assumptions, then start making assumptions about me. Hilarious. All I did was observe that you cry about Nietszsche because you don't like your religious prattling being dismissed; you expected it to be taken seriously.
      Also your religion has no altruistic beliefs. Don't try to hijack basic human decency for your own religion.
      Also we live in socieities where 'god is dead', all of us do no matter what we think of religion. No gods exist, so how can there be a society in which any gods exist?

    • @murphysmuskets
      @murphysmuskets 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Dr. Death Haha, none of you apparently have a clue what Nietzsche was saying.... When Nietzsche talks about the “death of God” and the superman he isn’t talking about the death of God as a being or force of nature. He’s talking about the rise in orthodoxy and the death of individualism. "Of all that is written I love only what a person hath written with his blood. Write with blood and thou wilt find that blood is spirit." "...and once spirit was God." -Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra I suggest you all do a little more research and a little less mudslinging.

  • @AmAxel35
    @AmAxel35 6 ปีที่แล้ว +84

    Neeson: I've been told to get you to abandon the role of Spiderman
    Garfield: ...

  • @trentdevlaminck1267
    @trentdevlaminck1267 7 ปีที่แล้ว +383

    this is a rough movie

    • @nerad1994
      @nerad1994 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Marvin Martin who cares what he thinks

    • @milanoforeva
      @milanoforeva 6 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      I agree, it is a rough movie. It gives an interesting perspective of the meaning of religion in a culture and in a personal sense. I really enjoyed it.

    • @Jiji-vz5wg
      @Jiji-vz5wg 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well, when there's samurai, the movie will almost always have roughness to it.

    • @calebhorton4701
      @calebhorton4701 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Marvin Martin I think he means rough in its candid and contentious presentation of difficult concepts. It’s rough because it’s difficult to confront such ideas.

    • @kertsang2053
      @kertsang2053 5 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      What he means, and I also share this opinion, is that it's a tough movie to watch because of the immense suffering and psychological torture the protagonists and the persecuted Christians go through over the course of a nearly 3-hour movie, with no one to save them and no magical solutions in sight.

  • @ອາລິສໄຊຍະວົງ
    @ອາລິສໄຊຍະວົງ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +91

    The book's scene is a lot more detailed and mentions some Buddhist theology which the movie unfortunately omits.

  • @turdnor
    @turdnor 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    He is Ferreria only to you, but now he is Master Qui Gon Jinn

  • @MrJustonemorevoice
    @MrJustonemorevoice 5 ปีที่แล้ว +105

    "It is not necessary to win people over to one side or another when there is so much to share"
    Wise words. Ignored of course.

    • @denniswilkerson5536
      @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      That was actually one of the statements that I disagreed with in this clip the most because I understand that there are things worth not knowing about in this universe.
      We are limited in our time here and pointless pursuits are more over distractions of things that we know we ought to do as human beings.
      ....also Neutrality gains you nothing in the face of all that information you seek, you'd be setting yourself up for failure, if you can't be swayed by any sides that claim truth, then you aren't truly looking for truth, but instead are looking for a selfish desire to be satisfied, which causes me to believe that in searching for gaining/sharing information is ultimately self-negating.

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Wise words are often ignored by people who have taken a side. I was raised Christian and watched zero hearts moved week after week and none of Christ’s teachings followed. Christ was very clear that to be close to god you should do it in your room alone. Sitting through a sermon doesn’t make you a Christian-acts speak louder than beliefs to god, if there is one. Which at this point in my life, after seeing the world and losing a lot of loved ones, I just can’t see as plausible.

    • @jacobodom8401
      @jacobodom8401 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@denniswilkerson5536 you’re calling the pursuit of understanding other beliefs and perspectives besides your own “a waste of time”?
      For Pete’s sake there are other beliefs besides Catholicism, which is just one sect of belief in Christianity.
      To say none of them are worth learning about is just doing yourself a disservice.
      Claiming that only one religion can have the truth is just silly

    • @jorgepitkill7412
      @jorgepitkill7412 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RustinChole you quote one line of Christ and ignore all the rest. Makes me think you do not understand him as well as you think you do.

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jorgepitkill7412 not true. Just making a point. You know Jesus HATED assumptions. Like the one you just made.🙄you know, I don’t think you know the Bible as well as you think you do!😂🤷🏻‍♂️

  • @TheJayTex
    @TheJayTex 4 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    In the end he lived as Christ did. He sacrificed an essential part of himself to save others. For Christ, his body. For Rodrigus, his faith.

    • @InitialPC
      @InitialPC 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      He lived the exact opposite as Christ did. Jesus sacrificed His body so He wouldn't have to give up His faith. Rodrigus sacrificed his faith so he wouldn't have to give up his body.

    • @TheJayTex
      @TheJayTex 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@InitialPC did you even watch the movie?

    • @AB-sw4kb
      @AB-sw4kb 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@TheJayTexas a Catholic, this movie is a debate, and even Endo has self-debates. The Catholic view is that to die a martyr is the Christian way. The world can have my body; my spirit belongs to God. Yet on the other hand, there must be a way for secret Christians to publicly renounce the faith yet continue to try to spread the faith in secret. Who is right in the case of Ferrera and Rodrigues? It is a debate.

  • @AmeerKKamal
    @AmeerKKamal 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    I’d be shocked too if my mentor became a total weeb

  • @davadh
    @davadh 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Just realize this Japanese man is Tadanobu Asano, who is awesome in Shogun (FX).

  • @Peter-hp8re
    @Peter-hp8re 5 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    What I find interesting about this movie is that it shows us that the buddhist inquisition was just as brutal as the christian versions. I guess that at their core people are the same no matter where you go.

    • @leifewald5117
      @leifewald5117 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Peter humans have a dark side my friend.

    • @milesedgeworth132
      @milesedgeworth132 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Brutal in methods yes. Brutal in numbers no. Christianity did not take much root in Japan outside of the fringe. The European Inquisition has killed a lot. That's not to mention the Crusades.

    • @valmarsiglia
      @valmarsiglia 3 ปีที่แล้ว +40

      Not really though. The European Inquisition's ultimate purpose was to ensure that everyone was Catholic, and as noted by another poster below, they have the much higher body count. The purpose of the Japanese version wasn't to convert everyone to Buddhism, its purpose, whether right or wrong, was to uproot a foreign religion. However, Japan never had a one-religion rule as in European countries; there were two main religions practiced there: Buddhism (itself of course a foreign import) and Shintoism, plus one was free not to be religious at all. One could conceivably practice whatever religion one wanted to in private so long as one didn't upset the social order. Compared to that relative religious tolerance in Japan, how do you think European countries would have reacted if some Japanese went to, say, Portugal and tried to open a Buddhist temple? Or tried to convert Christians to Buddhism? What do you think would have happened if some people in Portugal in those days decided that they'd like to try a different religion? There's not much equivalence between Buddhism and Christianity: Christianity, like Islam, by definition has an all-consuming nature. "We're the only true religion; everyone else is unwittingly worshiping Satan, therefore we should rule the world." Buddhism, on the other hand, just doesn't see reality in those totalizing terms.

    • @profile1172
      @profile1172 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@milesedgeworth132 3 years late but I will tell you. When you say European Inquisition what are you talking about? The Church protected natives' rights during colonialism of the Americas. You are mixing up religion with politics. I will also say the Crusades were justified. People always love to bring up how Christians invaded the Holy Land but ignore everything else. You ignore the Muslims attacked Byzantines and other Eastern Christian nations. You also ignore they conquered Spain and went as far as France in the Battle of Tours.

    • @profile1172
      @profile1172 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ​@@valmarsiglia I would like to ask how could one practice whatever religion in private when the Japanese government would torture and massacre them? Buddhism itself was a foreign import but also things such as tea, pottery and many traditions were imported to Japan at the same time as Buddhism. It did not upset the social order because the social order of Japan changed. So, it would seem Japan is relatively tolerant of religion but it is not the case. They had just accepted culture from other Eastern countries. I will agree, Europe would not have allowed it but what did Christians do to those that have other religions? When did Christians in Europe slaughtered hundreds of thousands for their faith. Not war but from massacres. The Spanish Inquisition was not bad as people make it. They were to convert or leave. Torture was not allowed for confessions. Did Japan allow any Christians to leave except for the priests? Buddhism is just used to fit peoples' desires. In the West its secular and in the East its religious but they genocide minorities in the South East now. Christianity is a firm religion. One true religion what is wrong with that? It's become the largest religion in the world and continues to be so. Islam is quite backwards compared to Christianity.

  • @hytf2797
    @hytf2797 5 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Buddha originally did not intend to be immortalized as a deity. However as many generations passed, other religions and what not prompted Buddhist followers to tweak the details on who or what buddha is.

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I imagine Jesus would have felt the same way. What confuses the shit out of me is ...Jesus was a Jew. A devout Jew. He didn’t start a new religion, and throughout the four testaments, he’s referred to consistently as Rabbi. I was raised Christian, but if you really immerse yourself in history, philosophy and reason, it’s easy to see all the different religions of the world as branches growing from the same tree. Religion means nothing without compassion. If we could agree on compassion as a basis, and agree to disagree on the specifics, what a world that would be.

    • @MrBattlestar10
      @MrBattlestar10 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RustinChole Jesus said to follow him. He fulfilled the promises of the old testament. The veil was torn. "Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice"

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @Sanctus Paulus yes, as a devout Jew. Yes. He never said “stop being Jews and call yourselves after my name!”
      Pretty much the antithesis to humility.

    • @Ch-ew9tm
      @Ch-ew9tm 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RustinCholeChristians wanted to differentiate themselves from jews since they didn’t believe in jesus was the messiah. So they changed the name of their faith

    • @deusvult8340
      @deusvult8340 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RustinCholeHe said he Was the way, the Truth and the Life, a little blasphemous don’t you think if a teacher would say HE is the truth and life and without him there is no salvation

  • @willwolf8436
    @willwolf8436 6 ปีที่แล้ว +64

    Religion is one of the few great things that can bring unity and division, peace and destruction at the same time.

    • @VT-mw2zb
      @VT-mw2zb 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Well, unity is often used to stomp on the arbitrarily decided "others" de jour.

    • @YTWgamer
      @YTWgamer 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Also brings planes into buildings and bombs into buildings of those they disagree with.

    • @GentlemanBystander
      @GentlemanBystander 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      And without religion we'd just fine another excuse.
      Point is, it's not religion, it's our very nature.

    • @zedoctor3724
      @zedoctor3724 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@YTWgamer Fun fact: it's been calculated that religion has been responsible for only 7% of all recorded wars in history. Every other war was fought due to secular reasons, so get the fuck outta here. Humans will find easier ways and excuses to kill each other, religion or not.

    • @sirpepeofhousekek6741
      @sirpepeofhousekek6741 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@zedoctor3724 How do I save TH-cam comments?

  • @anthonyconde7604
    @anthonyconde7604 5 ปีที่แล้ว +59

    The part of the discussion starting at 4:09 doesn't get as much discussion as other important themes in the movie. I believe it is a very pertinent issue-especially for universalising religions such as Catholicism. Even if we use the same names, seemingly speak the same language, how can we be sure we're talking about the same thing?
    This can be especially important with the central (or at least more payed-attentioned-to) theme of apostasy, particularly with how it's carried out. Garfield is pressured into desecrating an image fashioned by unfamiliar people (the fumi-e: the plaque depicting Jesus), made according to how they imagine these Christian ideas are meant to be represented-and made for the purpose of being trampled on!
    It just seems that one of the biggest things to take from this movie is how elusive expression is.

    • @sebdrum92
      @sebdrum92 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Yeah I thought the people that have seen the movie just got the wrong message, like how religion is bad because it brings suffering and all that blabla, but instead the movie focuses on how beliefs varies from one another, from different cultures, even when we're preaching the same thing its likely that we'll not get the same thing out of it, because the roots aren't there for Japan as they are in Europe. For the Japanese, Rodrigues wasn't just a preacher of God's word, he was the embodiment of their faith, he was the word of God, and they needed him because otherwise their faith would die. You can say they were following his teachings, but they didn't follow Christianity as a religion, and this is what Rodrigues failed to understand, cause he thought that trampling on christ face meant the same thing for him and everyone else, not realizing that they wouldn't do it because HE wouldn't, not because it's christ face. And that is what Ferreira is trying to tell him here.

    • @forceinfinity
      @forceinfinity 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@sebdrum92 Yeah, there was a specific scene where one of the asked Garupe/Driver about paradise and the question caught him off guard and he had to try to answer this person.

    • @drake1896
      @drake1896 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      what do the japanese people think the cross rpresents then? Doesn't really make sense to me

  • @PC.NickRowan
    @PC.NickRowan 5 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Funny, they're both arguing the exact same point. Just from a different perspective! The one thing they aren't doing, is following their religious values, by tolerating each others differences.

    • @pzalterias5154
      @pzalterias5154 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Peter Conlon Tolerating, a religious value ? lol

    • @denniswilkerson5536
      @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Wade Haden So then would you say its a growing apart from God and a spirtual aspect and more towards material possession which causes hate?

    • @InitialPC
      @InitialPC 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Christians are commanded by Jesus to convert others, tolerance of other religions is the exact opposite of that.

  • @MIZZKIE
    @MIZZKIE 6 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    Damnit, you didn't include the rotting tree analogy. That was the best part hands down.
    A tree will flourish in one soil but rot in another. (something like that)

    • @KatiesArabVision
      @KatiesArabVision 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      MIZZKIE that’s actually in scripture. Just learned about that. Those who are true Christians will have good soil, those who deny Christ with every being in their soul will have the very opposite. Can’t plant a fruit tree that will blossom with the fruits of knowledge love and everything else without the seeds growing into good soil. It’s very poetic and true

    • @noire1706
      @noire1706 6 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      woahdudette it's not true tho, you honestly think people who don't believe in your concept of god are rotting on the inside and deserve eternal punishment? that is my biggest problem with aberhamic religions and why i decided to leave one, it's so immoral and yet claims it is ruled by a perfectly moral god, when you look at a religion like Christianity and the beliefs in it as a whole, it's extremely immoral and contradictory

    • @denniswilkerson5536
      @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@noire1706 The abrahamic religions are immoral by whose standard?

    • @denniswilkerson5536
      @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@noire1706 I see you are a staunch Antitheist by the way..... Neil Degrasse Tyson, Richard Dawkins..... it seems like you left your previous religion with a little help..... and ended up finding a new one.
      You've been indoctrinated into the Theo..... Religion of Evolution
      You claim morality for yourself and your own views, but you portray them as if they were Objective, but you dont even realise you are borrowing from the very religion that you denounce which has an objective moral compass and has an ultimate reference for maintaining that objective moral compass within the confines on it's subject universe.
      You can't determine for yourself what is right and wrong and portray your feeling as the truth, it's subjective in all forms, and if you believe that there are no *Absolutes* like your buddy Richard Dawkins then there is no Truth, if there is no Absolute Truth, then there is no reference of which you can ground your belief, which means that your belief holds no validity.

    • @InhabitantOfOddworld
      @InhabitantOfOddworld 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@noire1706
      Sounds like baseless Dawkins talking point, but alright.
      "I'll just call it immoral and contradictory with zero proof and the atheist TH-cam sheeple will applaud me"
      - you

  • @Brian6587
    @Brian6587 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Finally saw this whole movie today and I will say as a Christian it gave me MUCH to think about in terms of how a Christian responds to suffering. I asked myself what I would have done had I been in Father Rodrigues place.

    • @zodlord5669
      @zodlord5669 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's interesting I know I wouldn't have people die for me. It's not even a second thought. To save any life should be the ultimate goal of any religion

    • @stefanodisperati1391
      @stefanodisperati1391 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The amazing movie brings also an impossible challenge: as Christian, shall save lives of poor people that would die for their Faith, or apostatize saving few lives but dooming the whole religion. Japanese inquisition was definitely smarter then Romans: there's no point in torture someone making him a martyr. Just put him in front of an impossible choice and whatever he chose, you win. That's how Asia survived thousands years. As they say: One Land

    • @郑骏豪-x1t
      @郑骏豪-x1t 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's true, trying to convert a specific culture group into true Christianity took years and even very very delicate leap of faith for that particular group. This is Japanese ethnic that has their own set of religion belief. The movie presents how the Portuguese priests failed to translate the Gospel into Japanese way that is true and correct, thus the Japanese got the distortion of the Christianity faith (the Son of God = the Sun of God, Sun being the God in Japanese religion). This is what the movie claims, through which source, we not given clearly, as history claims various sources differently.
      Same as Chinese culture when confronted by the Christianity, they (the chinese) were used to worship the 12 heavenly gods so that they would be blessed when the 12 gods are contend with their sacrifices offered in the temple. When Christianity came, the similar old pattern that were used in previous religion were applied onto Jesus Christ, that somehow giving tithe, and offering to God, it has similar system of give and take, like a vending machine based on faith on the luck in their lives. While at the same time the chinese christians most of them don't build true relationship worship with the Trinity God, as true as the early Jews and Romans converts in early Apostles time.
      Jews, Chinese, and even Japanese, has their own culture religion built and bred around their own set of mythos. Which is the true God, must be able to claim their Godship, thus the losing culture must be willing to abandon their culture-religion background onto the true one. Even God in the Bible sternly warned us to not mix-match beliefs, as reflected on how the Jews were instructed to not weave garments from more than one material, as it is abomination before the LORD. The Japanese distortion of the "sun" of God of Christianity, and basically makes the Portuguese priests as their "deity", is that abomination that God despises. The fact the priests failed to see their error and just failed to notice the abomination they making, just proves it is folly, and their laziness to learn the language themselves, instead depends on the "japanese translator" that never understands the whole Abrahamic religion culture, making the translation of the gospel, into abomination of faith.

    • @AquinasBased
      @AquinasBased 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@郑骏豪-x1t Ur absolutely right. Unlike Orthodox missionaries in Alaska who took time learning the language, these Portugese missionaries were lazy fools.

  • @DoctorXander
    @DoctorXander 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Very different character to Yabushige lol

  • @kennethsatria6607
    @kennethsatria6607 5 ปีที่แล้ว +61

    Man I love this conflict.
    Its like i understand both sides and this is done out of a need of protecting native culture against a religeon that can be used for an invasion by higher powers.

    • @melo7038
      @melo7038 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Both sides.
      Lmao so off mate. You really goign to put the guys crucifying and torturing on the same level as priests tryign to convert people to another religion?

    • @magicman3163
      @magicman3163 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@IncredibleGoliath the Shimabara rebellion done in a Christian part of Japan was done because their feudal lord raised taxes and worked peasants to death to build another mansion

    • @gabrielegenota1480
      @gabrielegenota1480 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That’s not… what? Was that what they were talking about?

  • @borcanmihai6
    @borcanmihai6 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    A young Yabushige

  • @dougmedina3635
    @dougmedina3635 6 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Excellent acting from all 3 actors in these two scenes! Particularly, Andrew Garfield in the 2nd scene ... losing admiration for his mentor, his persistence, and his vulnerability ... A sad, challenging, but rewarding scene for those who reflect on the complex human emotions depicted in this scene.

  • @gandhithegreat328
    @gandhithegreat328 6 ปีที่แล้ว +94

    I'll tell you a short story about a Christian English shoe maker. He lived in a small farm town in the mid 18th century. The man made shoes his whole life. When he wasn't making shoes for the towns people, he was reading his Bible, and carving his favorite verses into the walls of his wooden shop. It was not uncommon for people to ask about the verses and have open discussions on God in the man's shop. He converted about a dozen people a year for decades and strengthened the faith of many more Christians that last through his town.
    One day he got too old and couldn't make shoes as effectively as he use to. So he hired a young teenage orphan to be his apprentice. The boy did the labor intensive work of making the shoes that the old man couldn't.
    One day a new show making shop was built in town and the old man and his apprentice lost some buisness. The boy was worried so one day he went to the shop and found that they were making shoes much faster than the old man was. However he also saw that that shop cut corners and made their shoes of a lesser quality than the old man. He asked the owner of the shop about it and the man said,"They come back all the quicker when we cut corners my boy!"
    The boy went back to the old man and was convinced that if they did not start cutting corners they would go out of buisness. The old man stopped his work immediately and went over to his Bible, which was always open on the counter. The old man read his apprentice a verse.
    "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters" -Colossians 3:23
    After reading the verse The old man turned to the boy and said,"One day, I will Die. When I do I will stand before the throne of God and I expect to see every shoe I have ever made, or fixed over the years in a great pile before me. I know God will judge me on my heart's intensions and look to my good work I have down for my fellow man and he will say to me,"Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have served your fellow man well and followed after me all your life. The Kingdom of Heaven is yours for all of Eternity!"
    The old man continued,"That is why we don't cut corners. It is for the love of God himself! Now you must think for yourself young man. What kind of man are you going to be? Will you be a good man and love your neighbor or will you cheat and swindle your neighbor for some money?"
    With that the Old man went back to his work making shoes.

    • @magustx
      @magustx 6 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      if god weren't busy making perfect shoes, maybe he could have saved some more lives during the holocaust

    • @andresperez7582
      @andresperez7582 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@magustx a good lesson. Thank you.

    • @coraggio93
      @coraggio93 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Sammuel Parris -- thank you for this story.

    • @xxxxxx5868
      @xxxxxx5868 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      r/im14andthisisdeep

    • @supershade2009
      @supershade2009 5 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      but then the man might go broke, lose his shop and the ability to acquire materials to make the shoes, thereby ending his dreams period. It might be ok for him, he's older and has done what he wanted with his life, but the young boy working for him loses his job, maybe hurting his life forever, and will then have to work for the shopkeeper who does cut corners.
      That's what makes the message of the movie so powerful, its not the priest who's in danger, he's fine with being martyred for his beliefs. It's the people who surround him who are depending on him for their lives that he is forced to either sacrifice for, or have to live knowing they died because of his beliefs.

  • @jblasutavario9549
    @jblasutavario9549 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This movie has a Sith Lord, a Jedi Master and Spiderman

    • @Ruvik92
      @Ruvik92 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The guy that plays the translator for the padre played kakihara in.ichi the killer

  • @gabmj777
    @gabmj777 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Yabushige-sama

  • @christopherbarber5283
    @christopherbarber5283 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Such an underrated film. One of the best in the last decade in my opinion

  • @theodorej.burkhardt8844
    @theodorej.burkhardt8844 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Don’t worry guys, he gets revenge in Hacksaw Ridge

    • @iflyte
      @iflyte 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      He doesnt tho...that's like the entire point of the whole movie...

    • @lordtheodorej.burkhardt4088
      @lordtheodorej.burkhardt4088 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ok, very true

  • @philc5499
    @philc5499 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    3:05 "No one should interfere with another man's spirit."
    - Says the captain of the Christian torture squad.........

    • @RoyalKnightVIII
      @RoyalKnightVIII 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      As he says it to a catholic, infamous for their violent and cruel inquisition

    • @uninterruptedrhythm4104
      @uninterruptedrhythm4104 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Seeing what Christianity did to many native and indigenous people all around the world, the Japanese were well justified uprooting Christianity in their country

    • @musicaleuphoria8699
      @musicaleuphoria8699 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@RoyalKnightVIII There's very much a contradiction of religious faiths in their way to help others and their way to implement institutional control.

    • @InitialPC
      @InitialPC 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@RoyalKnightVIII not all catholics are inquisitors

    • @RoyalKnightVIII
      @RoyalKnightVIII 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@InitialPC way to utterly miss the point

  • @__Andrew
    @__Andrew 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I might have to give this movie a go, im getting strong "Shogun" vibes. The book by James Clavell. That book wonderfully played religion (Protestant, Catholic, Shinto, Buddhism) into the main story to were the religious beliefs of the characters were sort of their own characters themselves and could twist and change. The Japanese and Portuguese both viewed each other as "savages" and in a lot of ways you agreed with both sides.

  • @Charzhino
    @Charzhino 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    That first encounter is so riveting. "Our Buddha is a being which man can become, something greater than himself". This is where Padre had no response because he doesn't understand the Buddhist faith. Once an individual realises that materialistic desire only causes suffering and pain, he can embark on a personal journey through prayer and meditation to overcome the illusion of material reality. This is the point at which Nirvana and self-liberation is reached. Its an entirely personal commitment. What the Christian missionaries were doing is clinging to their illusions, of believing they are doing Gods work of preaching the gospel and they will get rewarded with heavenly eternal life in the afterlife , the more people they "save". It might appear as a noble cause but ultimately it is selfish and "materialistic" which brings themselves along with the peasants, pain and suffering.
    Its also ironic padre retorted that a Buddha can die therefore he is not the creator but didnt Jesus die also?

    • @midwestmatthew9752
      @midwestmatthew9752 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Buddha is still dead. Jesus defeated death and sin and is alive today.

  • @ChairmanMeow1
    @ChairmanMeow1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    This is why I love movies by guys like Scorcese and Tarantino. They write such great dialogue. Something that is missing from a lot of films these days. Quality dialogue does something to the brain, it stimulates it, makes it think. I love that about some movies.

    • @schannel7138
      @schannel7138 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Tarantino's movies are degeneracy.

    • @phantom.wreath
      @phantom.wreath 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Films made by a director with an actual vision will always be better than movies made by hacks who are vetted by a board of corporate charlatans.

    • @vishaansingh1019
      @vishaansingh1019 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I cannot possibly see how you'd connect a religious dialogue scene between two priests to dialogue in a Tarantino movie. He has written nothing even remotely similar to this in his entire career.

    • @ChairmanMeow1
      @ChairmanMeow1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@vishaansingh1019 Uh its pretty easy to. Great dialogue is great dialogue.

  • @TempleofBrendaSong
    @TempleofBrendaSong 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Neeson: I've been told to get you to bend the knee to Brenda Song (saws)

  • @davadh
    @davadh 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "The Japanese only believed in their distortion of our gospels so they did not believe at all, they've never believe." - This is such a great line and point in how stories can be distorted simply through the difference in culture and language. And it's back and forth between broken languages, not just from English to another language but vice versa.

  • @DisgustedBatman
    @DisgustedBatman 6 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    You do know that Martin Scorsese himself is a catholic and he actually made this film partially from his own religious experiences right?

    • @Quinntus79
      @Quinntus79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The book this movie is based on is also written by.a Christian, Shunsaku Endo.

    • @markwaggener5380
      @markwaggener5380 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Martin Scorsese currently identifies as a 'lapsed Catholic.' But, as this movie shows, he is clearly psychologically tortured by his own thoughts, actions, his own apostasy, renunciation of Christianity, his divorces, and more. Many of his films are odes to ubiquitous, pervasive Catholic guilt.
      I was diagnosed with PTSD years ago from a horrifically asphyxiating childhood with myriads of abysmal things, but years of childhood Christian indoctrination, inculcation and proselytizing were one of the biggest contributors. I can sympathize.
      And yes, the film is also based off of the Shusaku Endo novel 'Silence.'

    • @saintniccage2818
      @saintniccage2818 ปีที่แล้ว

      Marvel fans- but there's no jokes so it's a bad film

  • @Incredisuper
    @Incredisuper 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This scene is so much better in the film than the book. The Interpreter in the book is a two-dimensional Buddhist supremacist who indignantly spouts Mahayana theology without understanding any of it. His film counterpart is much smarter and much more equanimitous...and all the more menacing for it.

    • @tulta3631
      @tulta3631 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." - Tao Te Ching
      The interpreter's own realistic experience and intuition had understood what powerful illusions Rodrigues lived in. Yet the interpreter didn't set much of an example himself either since he was a cruel enforcer for the Shogunate (Like a political commissar). The striking contrast between the two is which reality the other has accepted, but neither knew their true faith, which I think is ones' own identity.

  • @cinezurdo
    @cinezurdo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Japanese man: *Tries to explain Buddhism* Rodrigues: “Buddha was only a man, like all men. He is not the creator.” Imagine going to someone else’s country and telling them their religion is wrong and try to impose your religion as if it were the fact of life.

    • @NedWasHere94
      @NedWasHere94 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Buddhist don’t believe that Buddha is the creator chap.

    • @cinezurdo
      @cinezurdo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NedWasHere94 Where did I say that?

    • @cinezurdo
      @cinezurdo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @madscientist 666 That’s not the point. The point is the absurdity of going to someone else’s country and telling them their beliefs are false, while simultaneously implementing your own beliefs when none asked for them.

    • @TheKalihiMan
      @TheKalihiMan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@NedWasHere94 This only further illustrates the point that the Jesuits were ignorant of the local religion and culture. It is true that no Buddhist posits the Gautama Buddha as the creator or master of the universe and mankind in the way the Abrahamic faiths do for their God. However, this is beside the point. As the interpreter pointed out, in Mahayana Buddhism a Buddha is not a god in the way understood by the Jesuits, but an enlightened being that anyone is capable of becoming if they are able to overcome their worldly connections. The main tenets of Buddhism are largely a personal commitment, and the ultimate goal is not to receive some larger reward, but to achieve a higher understanding.
      This willful ignorance of the Japanese religion and worldview also influenced the way Rodrigues is treated. Unlike the Jesuits who outright refused to learn anything about the local religion, the inquisitors are intimately familiar with how Rodrigues views his own faith. While professing to live in the example of Jesus, he and the other Jesuits refuse to live among the people they preach to and understand their ways. Furthermore, for much of the movie Rodrigues constantly seeks his own martyrdom in order to save the prosecuted Christians out of an implicit desire for his own glory and to achieve the Heaven his religion promises. Instead, the inquisitors repeatedly persecute converts in his presence unless he apostasizes. Rodrigues’ motivation is inherently selfish, as he is repeatedly shown willing to allow innocents to suffer in order to satisfy both his own ego and his personal desire for eternal paradise promised to him by his religion. This motivation is about as far removed from the example set by Jesus in the New Testament as one can get.

    • @NedWasHere94
      @NedWasHere94 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@TheKalihiMan That’s a lot of words for “the Japanese government tortured and murdered people for having a different religion.”

  • @Johnsmith99663
    @Johnsmith99663 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I was disappointed the movie didn't go into more of a debate between Christianity and Buddhism, whether one needed a god/gods, and whether salvation/liberation was achieved through correct faith and deeds of righteousness or through the extinction of personal cravings. In short, I wish there was more of a debate between Abrahamic and Eastern religion in the movie.

    • @Seek1878
      @Seek1878 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Shinto is the main religion of Japan rather than Buddhism

    • @luisvillanueva813
      @luisvillanueva813 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The Japanese inquisitor didn't believe that religion was evil so Buddhism vs Christianity isn't important to the movie. He believed that Christianity would be used as a catalyst for foreign invasion. Basically thought that a Hawaii scenario would play out. Eventually America and other nations did bring the Navy but they only cared about extortion and not religion.

  • @jonecuntapay9561
    @jonecuntapay9561 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    asano-san's english is believable.

  • @thehedgehogsdilemma9478
    @thehedgehogsdilemma9478 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    That line by Liam Neeson sums up perfectly the strict cultural mindset of the Japanese instinct of trying to keep out foreign influences “This country is a swamp! Nothing grows here! Plant a sapling here and the roots rot!” in other words Japan has historically been a nation highly resistant to change, not immune to it mind you, as history has clearly proven. Immune and resistant are two different things. Nevertheless considering how quickly they reverted back to militarism during the 1930s it is extremely likely that they never would’ve even become the current form of democracy that they are now if America hadn’t forced it on them at the end of World War II. If you want to see an anime film that explores the political side of that mindset, about the difficulty of change, a film that seeks to analyze it and understand it better then I highly recommend the 1999 masterpiece Jinroh: The Wolf Brigade by Matsume Shiro, the genius behind the 1995 cyber punk film Ghost In The Shell. Jinroh is a self critique about Japanese society set in the early postwar era during the the late 50s and early 60s, seen through the eyes of an increasingly depressed and disillusioned member of the Japanese special forces. The director meant the film as an exploration of the pack mentality and it’s effect on conformity in his home country and how he believes it directly affects the Japanese psyche. The film is ultimately the director’s way of articulating his frustration regarding his belief that “Japan is an overly conformist society, incapable of change even when times warrant it.” If you ever get a chance to watch it I highly recommend it. Gives you a really good insight into his perspective on how he views his society.

    • @gamer7916
      @gamer7916 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      It’s an overall theme with East Asian countries to be highly conservative and resistant to change. In Asia, ancestors are honored and even deified. This is in sharp contrast to the west, especially post Enlightenment where the ancestor is viewed as ignorant and primitive. That’s the reason the west was able to advance far more technologically over the east. The east resisted change while the west welcomed and even desired it.

    • @josephlee6956
      @josephlee6956 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Jinroh is an awesome anime!

    • @InhabitantOfOddworld
      @InhabitantOfOddworld 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@flowerchild8450
      Exactly. People try to exalt the novel and denigrate the traditional, yet time and time again, history proves that tradition is prosperity. Not liberal materialism.
      Japan is a good example but let's also look to Pharonic Egypt.
      A civilisation that stood for more time than any other, a sum of 3000 years, did so because it valued tradition, held fast to those traditions, and nearly eradicated from history the one reformer/heretic they ever had.

    • @gamer7916
      @gamer7916 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Minutemen Revival I think Japan is the example of the opposite. They gave up much of their traditional values in order to advance economically, technologically, and militarily. For example, the entire samurai caste was removed in favor of western style military system and industrialization replaced traditional artisanship. In fact, the reason Japan was able to defeat China and become the main dominant power in Asia was because they adopted western technologies and military strategies much earlier than China, who only began to reform their centuries old military equipments after their defeat during the Opium Wars, where their naval and land forces were utterly destroyed by the better equipped and better trained British forces. If Japan had done the same as China and held on to their conservative values, they would have ended up the same as China, split up and controlled by foreign powers.

    • @InhabitantOfOddworld
      @InhabitantOfOddworld 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@gamer7916
      They haven't let go of their traditional culture though. The structure of a military has little impact on the minds of the people, but culture does. They haven't submitted fully to the demands of neoliberal globalism. They let the US advance them technologically after the war but they're not so far up the wazoo that their populace is

  • @mikdan8813
    @mikdan8813 7 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    This movie describes the failure of Christianity in Japan. But that is not the whole truth. Many missionaries were indeed successful, and still are today. Whereas those who died for the faith are at peace with God.

    • @ronrivero1039
      @ronrivero1039 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      For religion it is but
      Not really a failure, for a Christian, suffering and persecution and death because of faith is a success

    • @ronrivero1039
      @ronrivero1039 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      the thought "believe in him or else die and burn in hell forever" is wrong. It's more of like "Believe in Me so you can be saved from Satan"
      God wants us to choose Him, take Him and believe in Him so we can be saved. Ever since Adam and Eve, God wanted Adam/Eve/Man to choose Him by placing the Tree of Life in the middle of the garden. The devil forced/tricked man to eat the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God doesn't force people to choose Him, if He does then He is not God at all.
      Satan is condemned to Hell, everything that wishes to go with Satan will surely go with him. It's not a condition but a choice.

    • @Powersnufkin
      @Powersnufkin 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      why put a tree in Eden if he didnt want anyone to touch it?

    • @soggyrice02
      @soggyrice02 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      And what is deemed success in the eyes of Christians? When they assimilate everyone to see god only the way they do? Biggest fallacy, historically riding the coat tails of imperialism these missionaries were. Let others be and realize there are many ways to practice faith. Blinded by the light.

    • @chinogambino9375
      @chinogambino9375 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Japanese and Korean Christians are not the same as western ones, I see these mental cases around new years with their yellow signs telling us we are going to hell. Its one cult among many over there.

  • @LupusGelos
    @LupusGelos 5 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Bizarre that Japan almost could've stayed like this into the modern day.

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      ........I wish Americans were more in tune with the natural world. There’s a lot of beauty we all are devastating daily.

    • @xxxxxx5868
      @xxxxxx5868 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      There would be no
      *A N I M E*

    • @iflyte
      @iflyte 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RustinChole what does that have to do with anything in this convo thread?

    • @xxxxxx5868
      @xxxxxx5868 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @TrapLordHodor He's lowkey right tho

    • @gamer7916
      @gamer7916 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      They would’ve changed one way or another. They’d either change willingly or be forced to change as was the case with China

  • @eveningrice
    @eveningrice 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is truly a movie about the human condition, not religion.

  • @JohnSmith-jj9jl
    @JohnSmith-jj9jl 5 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    "My religion makes more sense than yours" 😂

  • @icouch
    @icouch 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I really liked this movie.
    "It is not necessary to win anyone over to one side or the other" - So why are they violently stamping out Christianity?

    • @carlosgonzalez2706
      @carlosgonzalez2706 5 ปีที่แล้ว +53

      Because Christianity inherently wishes to become the dominant religion in whatever population it inhabits. That was the nuance in the movie. Western religions don't share.
      Eventually, Christianity would have been used to usurp and destabilize Japan. The resulting peasant revolt would then 'westernize' the nation towards European values, and thus weaken Japan towards capitulation to a Nation.
      The Emperor, along with anyone else that plays the game of Diplomacy realizes this.

    • @denverbritto5606
      @denverbritto5606 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@carlosgonzalez2706 thats not true, it never sought that in India, not in China either, or in post war Japan. You're repeating a prejudice that puts Christians in danger in many parts of the world. In many parts of the world people wanted missionaries to come to convert them, e.g. New Zealand.

    • @carlosgonzalez2706
      @carlosgonzalez2706 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      @@denverbritto5606
      Right, never. Just ignore;
      The Moplah rebellion
      The Shimabara rebellion
      The Taiping Rebellion
      The Morisco Rebellion
      The Muslim rebellion of 1862
      And on and on. But sure, NEVER have religions been used to subdue and replace bodies of government.

    • @carlosgonzalez2706
      @carlosgonzalez2706 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@denverbritto5606 Religion has always been called the opiod of the masses.
      A tool used by those in power to quell and control those too poor or too uneducated to know any better. Jesus may have had a message of piece and pacifism, but Christian Leaders have one of subservience and domination.
      The Abrahamic god, like all gods are the first memes. Social glue giving large swathes of otherwise disconnected people a common ground.

    • @denverbritto5606
      @denverbritto5606 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@carlosgonzalez2706 the european christians were anti-taiping rebellion, moplah had nothing to do with christianity, shimabara was in response to anti-christian persecution, you're clutching at straws mate. The others are all to do with islam as well. Of course religion was sometimes a tool to gain power, but it was often not. Christian principles have become universal principles, easy with that opiate talk Karl Marx.

  • @AbbasKhan9364
    @AbbasKhan9364 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    1:04 ''Even a Buddha dies, like all men. He is not the creator'' absolutely loved that line and delivery by Garfield.

    • @Quinntus79
      @Quinntus79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Kind of funny considering the foundation of the Christian faith is God dying and coming back three days later.

    • @niyatiarun
      @niyatiarun 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@Quinntus79 He came back that’s the point

    • @Quinntus79
      @Quinntus79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@niyatiarun I’d say Buddha got the better deal since he achieved Nirvana and didn’t re-enter the reincarnation system.

    • @niyatiarun
      @niyatiarun 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@Quinntus79 and Jesus is at his Father’s side in Paradise. Sounds pretty good to me

    • @mysticflare4434
      @mysticflare4434 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@niyatiarun wait Jesus and father are two individuals? I thought they all( including holy spirit) are the same within.

  • @shiningfaceofluzon5594
    @shiningfaceofluzon5594 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    If they didn't want to apostatize, was finding a way back to Europe; thereby not having to convert their faith; not an option for Rodriguez and the other priests.
    This movie makes it so that APOSTASY or EXECUTION are the only options once your in Japan.

  • @mattsmoviemagic8123
    @mattsmoviemagic8123 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The Japanese Actor *I don't know his name but seen him in other films* Bears A Very Striking Resemblance To Pat Morita *in his younger days* If They Were To Make A Karate Kid Prequel Origin Spin Off Of Mr. Miyagi I Could Totally See This Actor Playing Him.

  • @tadeuszjaworski7170
    @tadeuszjaworski7170 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's not a religious debate :) The shogunate official's argumentation is reduced to : ''Apostatise! It's so simple''

  • @nyhyl
    @nyhyl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    "You created illusions and call them faith."
    That's the difference between praying and meditation. One is speaking, the other is simply watching.

  • @VisionsDark
    @VisionsDark 7 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    It's all just about converting. My way is the only way. With such an ultimatum it creates arrogance and stubbornness because you believe that your faith is the only one. How? What gives you sole claim?

    • @sinfulways1492
      @sinfulways1492 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      This statement could be used for any religion out there and to be honest for nothing at all. I find myself torn to pieces because i was raised in the south and trust me from the time i opened my eyes until night you see God. I always ask questions and to a point i was told to not ask anything at all just obey because it is the right way to live. I follow my instincts from day to day and i live a good life but when it comes to religion i am in so many pieces.

    • @VisionsDark
      @VisionsDark 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      +sinfulways1492 Religion is built on fear of the Unknown. Be good for goodness sake not because you are going to get a pat on the head at the end of it.

    • @factfeeder777
      @factfeeder777 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      At least we Christians are not denying that Christianity is an exclusive religion. And we believe that there is no human being on earth without a sin.. Everyone has sinned and as a sinner if you try to make up for your sin by doing good works without doing it in the name of Jesus the son of God, you can only fool humans and yourself that your sin has been outweighed by the good works you do... Only by accepting Jesus, Jesus can outweigh your sin (it doesn't matter how small your sin is, a sin is a sin, stealing a piece of gum is stealing, a white lie is a lie, exaggerating is lying)
      The Christian God is a righteous judge and punishes any sinner who doesn't accept Jesus but at the same time forgives ANY sinner if they accept Jesus. it's a very fair deal for the sinners that we all are.

    • @VisionsDark
      @VisionsDark 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      +factfeeder777 so in order for our sin to be forgiven an innocent man had to be tortured to death and bleed out on a wooden cross? You serve a bloodthirsty and cruel God. A God that saddles you with guilt and strict codes that go against your basic nature. A nature that he allows to exist so that you are in a constant state of struggle and guilt. Wake up from your illusions and accept the fact that one day you will return to oblivion.

    • @VisionsDark
      @VisionsDark 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      +factfeeder777 you Christians are so terrified of the death of your Ego you accept any promise of an afterlife. Even if it is delivered by a God of War like Yahweh.

  • @sparkyphantom92
    @sparkyphantom92 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In the end, they have only themselves to blame for trying to force their culture upon another. Because religion serves as power and controls the masses.

  • @noire1706
    @noire1706 6 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    Buddhism actually sounds reasonable

    • @PresidentialWinner
      @PresidentialWinner 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      That's coz it is.

    • @zimonslot
      @zimonslot 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      yay, another believer ; - )

    • @rangodeldiablo
      @rangodeldiablo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It really is extremely reasonable

    • @GaoDaHoi
      @GaoDaHoi 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It is a belief that allows and encourages the students to surpass the master.....
      So what do you think?

    • @finnheisenheim8274
      @finnheisenheim8274 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You...that....this actually makes sense :^/

  • @chinogambino9375
    @chinogambino9375 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    The Japanese are still like this, they aren't that dogmatic about religion. I tried to explain Christianity to a Japanese friend and it sounded absolutely bizarre to him because just about everything has a kami over there. The idea of an exclusive religion was beyond his experience.

    • @matthewkearney9044
      @matthewkearney9044 5 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      Any religion sounds crazy to someone who wasnt indoctrinated into it.

    • @denniswilkerson5536
      @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@matthewkearney9044 New information is just old information presented to new people, and even everything you know now has been taught to you one way or another, if the religious can be indoctrinated into believing in one thing, then so can you.
      You can even be indoctrinated that religion is terrible concept too and that you should stay away from it.... we're all teachers in our own way, but only few have the best intentions.... it's not truly indoctrination though when you read that some of these religions have verses in their passages that encourage them to seek truth.

    • @matthewkearney9044
      @matthewkearney9044 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@denniswilkerson5536
      Yes, it is indoctrination when you take your impressionable child to religious ceremonies and raise them in that environment.
      You claiming I was indoctrinated to dislike religion is incorrect. I eventually realized how contradictory, factually incorrect, and immoral religions are on my own.
      Do you have evidence for the existence of your immoral god?

    • @Bully_who_made_goblin_Jr_cry
      @Bully_who_made_goblin_Jr_cry 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      So much ego, I sense

    • @nyhyl
      @nyhyl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Because it IS utterly bizarre! You can only swallow it if you grew up with it.

  • @jacobodom8401
    @jacobodom8401 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    “It is not necessary to bring one side to another when there is so much to share”
    A major point of the story that everyone seems to miss 🤦‍♂️
    “May God have mercy on you?”
    “Which God?”
    The point of this scene is not to illustrate Rodriguez’s strong faith, but to highlight his ignorance and unwillingness to learn.
    Rodriguez has fallen into the sin of pride. He is too prideful to understand other perspectives, he believes he is a moral authority but in reality he is sacrificing others for his faith.
    Do you think Jesus would do that or want others to do that in his name?
    It’s in his humbleness, that he decides to stop the violence in order to save others

  • @BloodOfYeshuaMessiah
    @BloodOfYeshuaMessiah 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    *For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.* Corinthians 1:18. The devil will never come to us openly declaring his identity. Rather, he will do it with those we love. Those we listen to. Listen to the words of Father Farreira (the apostate) "your wasting your time here. nothing grows in this country, it is like a swamp. If the Japanese believed in God, they only believed in a distortion of the gospel."......you could almost be listening to the devil himself. But history tells us it has only been in times of adversity and martyrdom the church of God has flourished.

    • @BloodOfYeshuaMessiah
      @BloodOfYeshuaMessiah 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for making my point.

    • @cameronbarge3337
      @cameronbarge3337 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BloodOfYeshuaMessiah What you have there is an unfalsifiable proposition. You should spend some time researching logical fallacies and cognitive biases.

  • @markgillespie8829
    @markgillespie8829 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Praise be Jesus Holy Name every knee shall bend Never deny or step of His Holy face. A thousands deaths first.

  • @fightingblindly
    @fightingblindly ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Movie is raw and i read the book before this movie ever was. It’s wild because buddhism was brought to Japan via Korea and later influxes from China.

    • @Seek1878
      @Seek1878 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      But buddhism existed alongside shinto, it never tried to replace it.

  • @groopledouche101
    @groopledouche101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I don't know how so many people can act like it's okay that they're oppressing this christian and pretending to be so open minded. You can't force beliefs or cooperation in this scenario. It's like none of you watched the last scene.

    • @brad5426
      @brad5426 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Who's pretending it's okay? What? It's like you just picked a fight with a brick wall and lost.

  • @latenightvhs8773
    @latenightvhs8773 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    As an european raised, i had no clue about buddhism real term. When finally understood, i just realized how different i was thinking about it. These two worlds were meet inside of me.

  • @kutko7609
    @kutko7609 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Matthew 10:33
    But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in Heaven.

    • @toxendon
      @toxendon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      which makes god an asshat for forcing people to be tortured for something as petty as making up a lie to save your family. If I was god (it's a thought experiment, dont get triggered), I would say "go ahead, for fuck sake, STEP ON MY FACE YOU IDIOT, SAVE THE OTHERS!"

    • @Quinntus79
      @Quinntus79 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for a friend.
      John 15: 13
      That is what Rodrigues did when he stepped on the tumor. He trained as Jesuit to devote himself to Christ. He would have been honored to die a martyr for Christ; but when he realized that others were suffering for it he sacrificed all of that to save them.

    • @nickpenaranda725
      @nickpenaranda725 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@toxendon you haven't watch the ending scene of this movie then. God talks to rodriguez and says "step on me"

    • @toxendon
      @toxendon 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nickpenaranda725 Yeah, in the movie - but not in actual theology

    • @nickpenaranda725
      @nickpenaranda725 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@toxendon you do know that graven images like in the movie is forbidden in "actual theology"
      It's okay to step on it

  • @andrewrivera190
    @andrewrivera190 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This movie has always unsettled me as a Christian in that it seems that the situation in Japan is hopeless in terms of Christianity actually working. However there are a few points in have noticed.
    1. The actual missionaries are sent by the Catholic Church. I know I have brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church but more often than not it seems Catholics hold the ceremony over the love Jesus taught. Ultimately we end up in this strange situation where images of Christ and his mother are held as sacred. When in reality they aren’t.
    2. It is so strange to hear the Daimyo talk about Buddhism and the path to divinity. Yet the way it is treated even in Japan today is something kind of just tied to being Japanese. Yet, they forsake the actual doctrines. Him bringing up Buddhism and the Japanese way of life has nothing to do with spiritual beliefs but rather maintaining a level of control over people and his own situation. Yet, Buddhism itself was once foreign to Japan.
    3. Yet, here we are. We have people being tortured to death because their allegiance isn’t to the Shogun. A man told to abandon his beliefs or else they will be killed and it’s “his fault.” It is backwards in the sense that the man telling him to submit seems to just ignore key aspects of even Buddhist doctrine and will sit there watching people die with zero issue. Yet the way he talks makes him seem like the voice of reason. Like… can you imagine someone holding someone hostage and threatening to kill the hostage unless you change your faith.
    4. In a sense Neason’s character is correct that you can’t really discount a cultures language and cultural values when you share the gospel. The gospel may challenge those values but ultimately that is something the new believers will need to wrestle through. Even Jesus says render under Ceaser’s what is Ceaser’s. So paying taxes is important. Yet, the way it is treated here, it almost seems like they are claiming that the Japanese citizens are property of Japan. Jesus said to render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s, people though are not property. Though this is something that has been a running issue in human history in general.
    5. Japan in a sense is correct in that the European countries would use missionaries to infiltrate countries. People tend to mix the motives of church and governments with the motives of the Gospel. That’s just not the case. I guess in that case, I could say that would be the same case with Buddhism and the Shogunate. They didn’t care about Buddhism because it didn’t threaten government affairs at the time. So that’s why he had zero issues using it to combat the missionaries faith. Yet by his own beliefs he fails because executing innocent people already taints his path to Nirvanah.

  • @SAVUFILMS
    @SAVUFILMS 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I understand Nelson's point of view how Japan sees it. But Romans has been in it first, India, Turkey, every gentile was an Alien to the gospel. Japan is no excuse

    • @RustinChole
      @RustinChole 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ugh. I mean your antiquated ideas are cute, but equally dangerous and gross.

    • @wellthatwasdaft
      @wellthatwasdaft 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Is it right to try and convert them, though? If they're already content in the religion they already have, what right do missionaries have to spread their own? Especially when it has already led to social upheaval and suffering.

    • @rae-everything
      @rae-everything 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@wellthatwasdaft Sure. But, evidently not all Japanese are content enough with Buddhism. There's a slew of Christian Japanese in the film. It's also worth considering that an apartheid state is only using "stability" as some warped justification for their mass killings, and social control. It's nuanced, which leads to these fruitful discussions I'm seeing about the film. (Not saying the colonialism of the Portuguese is justified, by the way).

    • @melo7038
      @melo7038 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@wellthatwasdaft Um yes? Do you get bent out of shape having Muslims try to preach outside the middle east too?
      Missionaries have every right to preach. And locals have the right to choose to listen or not. If they are content with their faith and don't wish to change or if they find no personal attachment to the foreign faith, then they can go on about their business.The vast majority of persecuted christians in Japan were Japanese natives. People who willingly converted to Christianity. Their own lords then murdered them for making that choice.

  • @mariofarias533
    @mariofarias533 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This film was very good.
    Shame people associate Scorsese with mafia and crime films when his scope is great.

  • @ULTD8
    @ULTD8 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    1:09 a being which man can become

  • @deadpool113
    @deadpool113 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This movie is quite interesting and convincing their deeds are truly evil but it's also describing their cause as convincing and it's not just irrational savagery. What he and inquisitor said actually i agree with them i'm also east asian🇰🇷 which persecuted catholic by our former dynasty. And i have buddhist parents and i'm an atheist. Consequently christianity didn't bloom in Japan forever. And what belief so called christianity looks distorted when we see it honestly. And buddhism ppl here believe it bcuz we have our passion and culture in it. We have our own creed. Of course their persecution was unbearably horrible but isn't that happening all around the world? In europe catholics persecuted protestantism, england persecuted every other christianity but anglican church, arabs persecuted christians even the level of brutality differs, spain persecuted islam and judaism. Vietnam persecuted Islam and hinduism. It's the challenge when two different world and two different truths collide. No matter what agenda goes travel, it will happen. The point is how we act when the challenge comes. There's no answer

  • @robertromero9488
    @robertromero9488 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    He has a particular set of skills

  • @ireviewshtuff
    @ireviewshtuff ปีที่แล้ว +2

    A key component of the religious clash here is that it's not just Buddhism present, it's also the cultural backdrop of Bushido and how deeply it was intertwined with Japanese life especially in this period. This is set right after one hundred years of constant warfare and upheaval of the Sengoku Jidai. The very idea of a religion founded on equality and gentleness would have been a repulsive and threatening ideology to a culture that revered its warriors above almost all else. It would have been seen as a corrupting influence that could weaken the most important members of society.

  • @kristiantogunawan2546
    @kristiantogunawan2546 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Japanese dodge,
    Wise move,

  • @JackJackKcajify
    @JackJackKcajify 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    liam neeson has been converted. The man to the right, the asian man, has more wisdom than liam neesons character. He is fully converted. He is not underestimating the wisdom of intelligence of the japanese like i first thought. Underestimate them in the way the he thinks they only worship nature and cant think of metaphysics. He is converted. He is japanese now. And he thinks like them. Thats the message here. Liam neeson is speaking a new perspective.
    To say the japanese culture is mans original nature? thats pure conversion.

  • @denniswilkerson5536
    @denniswilkerson5536 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Jesus Christ: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    The creator of the universe has dibs on everything in this manufactured reality, so then surely know what Truth is, and it is himself
    And so the further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who proclaim it
    If you have a religion that tells you that the truth is mysterious and is impossible to find, it might not be the right one, and it's likely not true, but a creator of the universe would know everything about his creation right?

  • @rittervonnielsen6661
    @rittervonnielsen6661 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you wish to persuade monks who are stewards of land and property or warriors who are men of worldly duties and admired by the common people for the austere and manly virtues of knighthood embodied by their vocation, don't send a priest or argue with them like Jesuits, send Templars or Hospitallers and let their eyes judge a form of thy faith lived in daily practice by men in service of an earthly lord in service of their heavenly emperor. But that would require Western men of sterner inner stuff than missionary priests, Portuguese sailors or perfumed Dutch merchants.

  • @wolfbournethefirst5055
    @wolfbournethefirst5055 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I need to see this movie.

  • @SirCamera
    @SirCamera 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We don’t deserve Andrew Garfield

  • @batbullet3315
    @batbullet3315 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Japanese are traditionally Shinto not Buddhists

    • @Seek1878
      @Seek1878 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It got mixed together a lot varying by region.

  • @nikolaynadtochiy7125
    @nikolaynadtochiy7125 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Christianity is not about having one's life as a bed of roses. It is essentially about being ready to die for Christ when it is necessary. Christianity is not centered around human life, nor does it put human life above anything else. God comes first, one's immortal soul and spirit come first. All those who expect it to be sort of Sunday club are greviously mistaken.

  • @xxxxxx5868
    @xxxxxx5868 5 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    0:38
    How can you even hate Japanese food

    • @carlosgonzalez2706
      @carlosgonzalez2706 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      At the time, it was less soy sauce and onigiri, and more rotten fish fermented in rice.

    • @GentlemanBystander
      @GentlemanBystander 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Have a functional palette.

    • @xxxxxx5868
      @xxxxxx5868 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@carlosgonzalez2706 oh damn I forgot about that

    • @jommzom9715
      @jommzom9715 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tomshue9630 Buddhism doesn't actually prohibit meat.

  • @nathanwhitfield8517
    @nathanwhitfield8517 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So glad in "Freedom for" and "Freedom from" religion if you choose.

  • @rarebeaniebootvv3317
    @rarebeaniebootvv3317 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    “JOHN 14:6” “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”, “John 3:16
    King James Version
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”, “Romans 6:23
    King James Version
    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”, “REVELATION 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”, reply for a conversation about this or prayer petitions! God bless your souls and may He save you and your loved ones in Jesus name! May God have mercy on humanity in Jesus name

  • @MixSonaProductions
    @MixSonaProductions 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Blame Tokugawa for Christian persecution
    You know Oda Nobunaga supported christianity, westernism, and modernity. Never forget who brings guns and allows Francis Xavier to spread christianity in Japan, it was Oda
    I'm a Buddhist. And Liam made good points

    • @gabrielnguyen5580
      @gabrielnguyen5580 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      What type of buddhist?

    • @azazel166
      @azazel166 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was Toyotomi Hideyoshi who started it.

  • @immts6475
    @immts6475 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You can feel the persecution he is going through, I should see the whole thing

    • @jacobodom8401
      @jacobodom8401 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Im MTS What persecution? He’s going to another country trying to convert people to his religion which ultimately divides a country for Christian powers to invade.
      He doesn’t try to understand the Japanese people and their customs. He says his way or the highway

    • @immts6475
      @immts6475 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      He isn't saying they must believe. He is saying they can and walking away from a challenge when you have the skill set is like leaving a victim to die without any help. He wants to help them, not divide them.

    • @azazel166
      @azazel166 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      There was previously a revolt at Shimabara that was mostly made up of Catholic converts.
      That revolt was pretty much what led the Shogunate to crack down on Christians.

    • @mosesking2923
      @mosesking2923 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      If people convert to another religion, that's THEIR CHOICE. You don't get to kill people because the worship differently.

    • @toxendon
      @toxendon 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mosesking2923 Colonization and exploitation always starts with making the common people change their religion to the faith of the oppressors.

  • @crimcrammoo
    @crimcrammoo 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "arrogant"
    "which means he'll eventually fall"
    meaning a less arrogant priest would not apostatize. Also means the inquisitor has met priests that refuse to apostatize. The inquisitor really did understand the priests culture more than they did his. The inquisitor isn't torturing the priests for their faith. He's torturing them for their arrogance.

    • @morgancasey
      @morgancasey 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Pride comes before every fall
      No pride, no falling

  • @TheIconodule
    @TheIconodule 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Too bad the Japanese rejected the truth.

  • @redsol3629
    @redsol3629 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The zeal of a young priest compared with the old man.

  • @fulltufun
    @fulltufun 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    @ 0.38 Arrogance of missionaries beautifully captured.

  • @stephendean2896
    @stephendean2896 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I thought Buddha wasn't a god. What he taught was a way to live better, I don't think that is exactly how the Buddha would describe it

    • @TheKalihiMan
      @TheKalihiMan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      This only further shows how ignorant and arrogant Rodrigues is in his approach. He believed that pointing out that Buddhas, Gautama and others, were not the creator or master of the universe in the way the God of the Abrahamic faiths is regarded was a solid refutation, but as the interpreter retorts, that’s hardly relevant. In Mahayana Buddhism, a Buddha is an enlightened being that anyone can become so long as they are able to overcome their worldly illusions. Rather than the inherently selfish desire for eternal paradise and bliss for oneself, the ultimate goal in Buddhism is to personally achieve a higher metaphysical understanding, while one of the most virtuous positions one can reach in life is that of Bodhisattva; someone who has achieved enlightenment but chooses to selflessly remain within the cycle of rebirth for the benefit of all sentient beings.
      This is also part of what Ferreira tries to explain to Rodrigues; that the Abrahamic concept of God is incompatable, or at least completely alien to the Japanese worldview. The Christians in Japan viewed Jesus not as both a messiah and a literal manifestation of God as trinitarian Christian sects do, but simply as a virtuous man to be honored and respected for his works and values. As Ferreira states, the Japanese translation of God the earlier missionaries relied on was “Dainichi”, itself a syncretic mix of the enlightened Gautama Buddha and the Shinto sun goddess Amaterasu, all-encompassing and forming the central figure and bringer of light into the universe. This fundamental misunderstanding means that the Catholic Church would not accept the martyrdom of the crypto-Christians, as they have no true understanding of the Trinity, and thus would be deemed heretics.

    • @Seek1878
      @Seek1878 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It depends on what sect. Some do see him as a god figure.

    • @jommzom9715
      @jommzom9715 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Seek1878 I guess only Theravada Buddhist don't see him as god which the closest to Ancient Buddhism