I have a couple of rotorflight helis in the air and honestly when it came to PID tuning I was always a little cautious about changing things. This breakdown is probably my favourite rotorflight video simply because it starts to unmask the most daunting part of the setup and the most time consuming part to be fair. Thanks for putting in the time/effort all of you.
It has gone full circle now :) I remember when JR came out with the JRtags01 FBL system. Way back. The software was pretty raw, just PID numbers. I was out in the field with a pen and paper, made some adjustments, took notes, and then back again. Learned a lot about PID thou, since there was no one to ask back then :P And as an F3C pilot, I also needed to tuned for good precision hover performance, and that's another beast ;) Great video.
Thanks Bert, Jaiwen and Alex. Some subtle hints built in there. These videos are building a strong foundation for us guys who are learning what this stuff does. I loved what Jaiwen’s hint was describing P and D gain, spoiler, P is the strength of the spring, D is the strength of the damping. Just enough D makes P stop bouncing. Cool!❤
Thanks! Yes indeed, enough D makes the the P stop bouncing, good way to put it. High D with lower P is like flying vBar (if you're familiar with it) with a high style number, low D with high P is like flying vBar with a lower style. The numbers shown on the screen work very well for 90% of the helis out there though.
Guys, this was a watershed video for me. I have been frustrated with my iLGoblin Raw and trying to get it tuned. My Advance flies nearly perfect, but the Raw was wishy washy. I watched this video and changed my numbers to match. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Thanks for sharing...
The filter settings we provided work for 99% of all helicopters. Very little reason to dive that deep into things, only 1% of those who fly this system will want to do that to be honest. Most FBL systems do not even allow you to see what they have for filters, so this is something I will consider last, but thanks for the suggestion.
@ ok good to know. I am using your IL Goblin pro file and have adjusted some small things but the filters are the same. My IL is flying great . I had one question about packet rate. I am using 333Hz(-105dBm). Is this ok or should I be using D500 or F500?
@@justinhilker9752 I would leave it at 333 Hz for now, no reason to go higher. However, you can go to D500, but that will change your channels, so you'll have to set the arming point for throttle as it will go from 988 or so to 1000 us. I would just leave it alone.
Great, thank you. It would also be benificial to have Jiawen explain some tuning using Black Box. I remember with FPv Quads there is something called a PID toolbox where you can see the step response curves which makes it super easy to know when you are critically dampened on an axis however I'm not sure if this has been adapted to Helicopters yet?
Great video. Thanks guys :) It was mentioned that the Dynamics Acceleration values "weren't working". Given the value is 0 to 50000 (with a scale of 0.1, meaning values 0-5000), is it possible you haven't gone high enough to be able to notice the change? There are settings for these, but other than the LUA, they are available in the Configurator-CLI
Could be, but no reason for me at least to mess with it as I don't see the need for it. I ended up increasing the value for response time to 4, so decreasing response time slightly. My stuff is flying amazing :)
Are these settings good for all profiles 0-3 with 0 being the lowest headspeed, 1 being a medium headspeed, 2 being the highest headspeed and 3 being for autorotation?
Great video Burt. If you have got Lua scripts on your radio you can change the PID in the radio correct. Will the values in rotoflight be the same as in the radio so you don't have to bring a laptop to make changes.
Question --- Cross-Coupling Gain is set at 5 in this video, default in 2.1 (final release) is 50. Was this a scaling change that accidentally got carried over from previous versions CLI dumps, or is the setting actually intended to be 5 when default is 50?
Just for clarification, the current version is 4.4.0. 2.1 is the latest version for the configurator. In 4.4.0 indeed cross coupling default is 50 and has been purposely lowered to 5 as it seems to feed too much roll input correction with pitch commands making some maneuvers like piroflips feel weird. I lowered cross coupling gain to 5 and raised the ratio to 10%, this makes the helicopter feel much better to me now.
Rotorflight system is very good perform well free also and support cheap gyros but complicated to learn it you must to spent many hours to learn it as i did to my tb40 but with vbar system takes me only 30 minutes for my tb70 ready to fly! Both perform well is the same feelings for me; My opinion is that i prefer vbar for the simplicity to set everything fast and no need pc or laptop that's way worth the money!!!
Have you seen the rest of my setup videos? Once you learn it, it is easy. It takes me 15 minutes to setup a new helicopter by importing a file from another one and then making some small changes. But yes, vBar is easier to learn for sure, I flew it for more than 10 years.
Yes you are right but Bert you are one of the best pilot in the world everything is easy for you not for the others and especially beginners pilots i was spectrum and later futaba guy but with vbar help me a lot to be expert pilot with my old 550 mikado now i fly nexus and vbar but still like vbar system you are doing good job with those videos me help me a lot!! Keep the good job!!!
Thanks Bert, Jaiwen and Alex. Some subtle hints built in there. These videos are building a strong foundation for us guys who are learning what this stuff does. I loved what Jaiwen’s hint was describing P and D gain, spoiler, P is the strength of the spring, D is the strength of the damping. Just enough D makes P stop bouncing. Cool!❤
Some do, but in the end, it is about "feel". Most people can't feel the difference when changing PIDs in small increments and the black box doesn't show you how the helicopter should fly. I have used it just for the heck of it, but to be honest, I haven't felt the need to use it and no other system offers that, so I am used to tuning to find the best feel for my flying style.
@ Coming from FPV there the suggestion is to have the PIDs very close to optimal damped and tube feel with rates. I still need to get used to tuning a heli. Its a bit more like Inav and heavyly depended on FF. And yes the Pids are quite forgiving. 10 more or less is often nothing. Currently I still have to much I Term buildup. Its not really visible in flight but sure in the logs
@@jas-FPV For sure, but unless you're flying very hard or precise maneuvers you can get away with a less than perfect tune and never really have an issue.
Thanks for having me!
帅哥你好！
Just curious, do these PID numbers work the same for 760 servos and 1520 servos?
@andysofly yes
@@jiawenbao3698 would the 200us Futaba servo with the 1160 refresh rate work?
@andysofly yes, you can even crank up the refresh rate to like 2000hz
Thank you for doing this, Bert. You're a legend. Your time and effort are much appreciated!!!
I have a couple of rotorflight helis in the air and honestly when it came to PID tuning I was always a little cautious about changing things. This breakdown is probably my favourite rotorflight video simply because it starts to unmask the most daunting part of the setup and the most time consuming part to be fair. Thanks for putting in the time/effort all of you.
It has gone full circle now :)
I remember when JR came out with the JRtags01 FBL system. Way back.
The software was pretty raw, just PID numbers. I was out in the field with a pen and paper, made some adjustments, took notes, and then back again.
Learned a lot about PID thou, since there was no one to ask back then :P
And as an F3C pilot, I also needed to tuned for good precision hover performance, and that's another beast ;)
Great video.
Thanks Bert, Jaiwen and Alex. Some subtle hints built in there. These videos are building a strong foundation for us guys who are learning what this stuff does. I loved what Jaiwen’s hint was describing P and D gain, spoiler,
P is the strength of the spring, D is the strength of the damping. Just enough D makes P stop bouncing. Cool!❤
Thanks! Yes indeed, enough D makes the the P stop bouncing, good way to put it. High D with lower P is like flying vBar (if you're familiar with it) with a high style number, low D with high P is like flying vBar with a lower style. The numbers shown on the screen work very well for 90% of the helis out there though.
Another well-paced and informative video that makes a great reference tool. Very much appreciated. Thanks to all of you for your time and effort!.
Finally... The timing was perfect as I was studying PID Tuning for rotorflight.
Guys, this was a watershed video for me. I have been frustrated with my iLGoblin Raw and trying to get it tuned. My Advance flies nearly perfect, but the Raw was wishy washy. I watched this video and changed my numbers to match. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Thanks for sharing...
Glad that it helped you!
Necessary video for learning Rotorflight. Great winter project. Nice work !
A video explaining the nitro filter differences would be AWESOME!
Glad I put my support and business in bk hobbies !
Thanks guys. Much appreciated.
Very helpful, thank you
What is in my wish list is how to analyze Blackbox Logs for RF2 - that will be a very much appreciated
Jiawen helped me already-thanks!!
This video is very helpful Radiomaster business hoping they'll see that and thanks to you guys thats you make easy for us to set up.
Thank you!
These are awesome videos guys! thank you!
Great video . Thank you.
Would love to see a video on filters and what they all mean and how to take out the noise .
The filter settings we provided work for 99% of all helicopters. Very little reason to dive that deep into things, only 1% of those who fly this system will want to do that to be honest. Most FBL systems do not even allow you to see what they have for filters, so this is something I will consider last, but thanks for the suggestion.
@ ok good to know. I am using your IL Goblin pro file and have adjusted some small things but the filters are the same. My IL is flying great . I had one question about packet rate. I am using 333Hz(-105dBm). Is this ok or should I be using D500 or F500?
@@justinhilker9752 I would leave it at 333 Hz for now, no reason to go higher. However, you can go to D500, but that will change your channels, so you'll have to set the arming point for throttle as it will go from 988 or so to 1000 us. I would just leave it alone.
@bertkammerer sounds good . Thank
You for the reply
Awesome insights, thanks for sharing
Great video guys!
Great, thank you. It would also be benificial to have Jiawen explain some tuning using Black Box. I remember with FPv Quads there is something called a PID toolbox where you can see the step response curves which makes it super easy to know when you are critically dampened on an axis however I'm not sure if this has been adapted to Helicopters yet?
Great video. Thanks guys :)
It was mentioned that the Dynamics Acceleration values "weren't working". Given the value is 0 to 50000 (with a scale of 0.1, meaning values 0-5000), is it possible you haven't gone high enough to be able to notice the change? There are settings for these, but other than the LUA, they are available in the Configurator-CLI
Could be, but no reason for me at least to mess with it as I don't see the need for it. I ended up increasing the value for response time to 4, so decreasing response time slightly. My stuff is flying amazing :)
Excellent!
Are these settings good for all profiles 0-3 with 0 being the lowest headspeed, 1 being a medium headspeed, 2 being the highest headspeed and 3 being for autorotation?
Yes. I run 1 for lowest, 2 for medium, 3 for high head speed and 4 for auto rotation bailout.
Thank you!
thank you
Great video Burt. If you have got Lua scripts on your radio you can change the PID in the radio correct. Will the values in rotoflight be the same as in the radio so you don't have to bring a laptop to make changes.
Correct, watch my previous video titled "Telemetry" where I explain how to load the RotorFlight 2 LUA and how to adjust settings from the radio.
thanks for this video bert game changer
Question --- Cross-Coupling Gain is set at 5 in this video, default in 2.1 (final release) is 50. Was this a scaling change that accidentally got carried over from previous versions CLI dumps, or is the setting actually intended to be 5 when default is 50?
Just for clarification, the current version is 4.4.0. 2.1 is the latest version for the configurator. In 4.4.0 indeed cross coupling default is 50 and has been purposely lowered to 5 as it seems to feed too much roll input correction with pitch commands making some maneuvers like piroflips feel weird. I lowered cross coupling gain to 5 and raised the ratio to 10%, this makes the helicopter feel much better to me now.
@ perfect thanks Bert!
What is the best pid for goblin raw 420 competition ? 1900-2000 rpm
Copy the numbers I show on this video and that gets you 90% there.
@ thanks bert. I will try it👍😊
Rotorflight system is very good perform well free also and support cheap gyros but complicated to learn it you must to spent many hours to learn it as i did to my tb40 but with vbar system takes me only 30 minutes for my tb70 ready to fly! Both perform well is the same feelings for me; My opinion is that i prefer vbar for the simplicity to set everything fast and no need pc or laptop that's way worth the money!!!
Have you seen the rest of my setup videos? Once you learn it, it is easy. It takes me 15 minutes to setup a new helicopter by importing a file from another one and then making some small changes. But yes, vBar is easier to learn for sure, I flew it for more than 10 years.
Yes you are right but Bert you are one of the best pilot in the world everything is easy for you not for the others and especially beginners pilots i was spectrum and later futaba guy but with vbar help me a lot to be expert pilot with my old 550 mikado now i fly nexus and vbar but still like vbar system you are doing good job with those videos me help me a lot!! Keep the good job!!!
Thanks Bert, Jaiwen and Alex. Some subtle hints built in there. These videos are building a strong foundation for us guys who are learning what this stuff does. I loved what Jaiwen’s hint was describing P and D gain, spoiler,
P is the strength of the spring, D is the strength of the damping. Just enough D makes P stop bouncing. Cool!❤
Hmm, why is nobody doing this with blackbox analysis ?
Some do, but in the end, it is about "feel". Most people can't feel the difference when changing PIDs in small increments and the black box doesn't show you how the helicopter should fly. I have used it just for the heck of it, but to be honest, I haven't felt the need to use it and no other system offers that, so I am used to tuning to find the best feel for my flying style.
@
Coming from FPV there the suggestion is to have the PIDs very close to optimal damped and tube feel with rates.
I still need to get used to tuning a heli. Its a bit more like Inav and heavyly depended on FF. And yes the Pids are quite forgiving. 10 more or less is often nothing.
Currently I still have to much I Term buildup. Its not really visible in flight but sure in the logs
@@jas-FPV For sure, but unless you're flying very hard or precise maneuvers you can get away with a less than perfect tune and never really have an issue.