Is An Attenuator The Guitar Tone Solution You Need? | Reverb Tone Report
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- From Andy: One tip i forgot to mention in the video - with Reactive Attenuators - a good rule is to choose an attenuator that is double the wattage of your amp to avoid any issues with your attenuator.
Additionally, according to THD, the Hot Plate is a reactive attenuator when using its Deep setting.
An attenuator goes between your tube amp's output and speaker to mitigate volume without sacrificing sweet-spot character. They come in a variety of styles, at different price points, and with unique feature sets. So Andy's here to help you decide what's right for your rig.
Learn more on Reverb: bit.ly/2KbieOA
Andy's Setup:
Amp: Metro Amp JTM-45 Clone
Guitars: Gibson Custom CME Les Paul
Attenuators: OX Amp Top Box, Weber Mass 100w, Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander
Recording Gear: Universal Audio Apollo 8 QUAD, Sennheiser E609
Strings: Ernie Ball 10-46
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Rush, Bowie, and Top all in one video? What an awesome start to my morning. Really impressed with how that boss box sounds.
And ACDC!
Anthem!
Andy Gets an A+ style point for matching his outfit with the Weber Box.. He's like those old couples who begin to look alike, he's becoming the gear!!!!
Another option is the radial headload prodigy, not exactly the same but I love it and the tone is not affected negatively at all. Crank the tube amp but reduce the output and has a headphone out and a 2x eq. Just sharing, food for thought.
My Weber Mass Lite is my secret weapon for taming my Hot Rod Deluxe. Lets me crank it right to the perfect spot. Then control the volume. Plus it lets me try different cabinets regardless of their impedance. So many possibilities!
Is that a 60w amp? Did you get the 50 or 100w attenuators?
How do think this would pair up with my 60 watt Fender Super Sonic amp?
How do you set your resistance switch? So that it matches the head or rather the speaker?
@@stevieray1072 Set it to match the output impedance of the amp head. The Mass isn't particular as to the impedance of the cab it's connected to. I'm running a 4 ohm Fender amp, so I set the switch on the Mass to 4 ohms. I currently have the Mass connected to an 8 ohm cab, but it would be just as happy connected to my 4/16 ohm switchable cab too.
Fryette Power Station, which I bought on Reverb after a lot of research. Right now, using it with a Dr. Z ERG 50 to keep the neighbors happy. It does everything I want it to.
I own the Boss since 2 weeks and it's amazing and without a doubt the best out there. I also own a Torpedo Reload, but it's doesn't feel the same and doesn't really give my amp tone I know (Two-Rock Traditional Clean). The Boss just feels great because of the different reactive loads in the box. And I don't really notice a loss in tone. Expensive, yes, but really worth it. I can see it being in studios and live as a standard.
What kind of IRs do you use (if you use any custom ones)? I got a bunch of celestion ones I'm still trying to play around with to find the sound I want.
You know, doing a demo like this is particularly effective when you know how to really play the guitar! I'm not sure what was coolest, hearing these sounds through the attenuators, or just hearing you play!!!
I spent so long looking at all the different types of attenuators before deciding to sell my JCM900 (sob) and getting a lovely H&K Grandmeister with it's built-in power soak feature. Wonderful piece of kit.
Power Station for me. Tried many and never had the desire to move beyond this perfect design.
Yes! Even a Princeton is a bit loud for some situations when you open it up. Your amp has power tubes for a reason-get a GOOD power- reduction device of some sort and decouple your volume from your tone. Makes a world of difference! Not to mention, most volume reduction devices also have extended connection options as well.
What power reduction device would you suggest?
Weber is a no-brainer for live use with a big amp in a not so big event. I like it's transparency better compared to the older resistive load attenuators. I've owned Palmer PDI-03, OX and WAZA TAE, but those are more expensive geared towards home studio market. All that digital stuff is unnecessary playing live. The weber on the other hand has an internal mechanical voice coil/magnet device to create a real load reaction that sounds genuine all throughout the volume reduction. The sound man will love you, your band mates will love you, you will sound like a pro.
Good to know because I already love their speakers
Does the Weber make high gain amp hiss quieter?
@@jonahlmoore No, piss booster only.
Loving the ZZ top at the beginning, Andy never ceases to impress
What is the name of the first song?
Waitin’ for the Bus - ZZ Top
@@RyanRivs42 Thank you!
Bought a WAZA TAE a few months off Reverb. One of the best purchases I’ve ever made
Been using Weber attenuators for 7+ years. Call me a stick-in-the-mud but I have a hard time understanding why anybody feels they need one of those $1000+ bell and whistle machines when you can get a Weber with a line out and onboard EQ in addition to the attenuator functionality for a couple hundred bucks, which sounds great. The idea of replacing actual speakers with emulations seems counterintuitive, since rolling speakers and playing with mic placement is the easiest way to drastically alter your tone and find unique sounds. If you watched this video and are intrigued, I'd recommend starting with an affordable, well-reviewed model (doesn't have to be a Weber) and see how you like it before shelling out for the DeLorean...after all, the main point is getting your tubes hot without driving your neighbors crazy, right?
The exactly the reason to buy one is just so you can get your tubes hot. Reactive load boxes aren’t necessary unless you a recording artist or something. The Ox is totally an awesome product but honestly no need to own one unless you want to record and do studio work. They cost as much as deluxe Reverb so unless you got that kind of money I’d rather get a Weber or Ironman toneking.
I bought an actual amp with speakers so that I didn't have to use any emulations. I started with UA plug ins first but I was not able to get the sound I wanted. I think all the digital stuff (although has a lot of potential) is not there yet. So yeah right now bypassing your speaker and creating an emulation of your amp is super counter intuitive, why would you do that if you actually have the amp?? Good marketing at it's finest I guess..
@@keithremedy Cab sims seem more like a live tool.
I think this is excellent advice . Unless you specifically need an additional fx loop I would go with something like the weber or rockcrusher
Jim Kelley talked about why he liked resistive attenuation, basically because the speaker ‘sees’ a fixed resistance from the amp as much as the amp ‘sees’ a varying resistance from the speaker. To him, providing the speaker the optimal resistance was more important.
Been using a THD Hot Plate for nearly 30 years! Used to tame my 1970 Marshall 100 Watt Super Lead. Now it tames my Fender Pro Jr.
Thhe two notes captor8 is a beautiful piece of equipment too
Looks to be for sure. I messed my spine up so I am only playing at home through DAW and either using Le Pou amp sim with WOS or IRs, or my Laney IRT Studio with WOS and adding effects in Reaper. The amp only does 1 watts instead of 15 watts when in silent recording mode, which severely limits the headroom of the clean channel. Gain tones are great though. Sounds almost exactly like my Suhr Riot pedal gain tones, but better. I think a Captor is all I need for what I do. All the features on these fancy new things I can do in DAW (I do not seem to get any latency).
Aquila Rossa I actually just took mine out of the box a couple weeks back, it’s rad as a DI into the WoS and as an attenuator
I've missed Andy -- been worried where he was...
I use a Rivera Rock Crusher, not the EQ'd one, with a Marshall Plexi Superlead reissue. That amp would not be use-able without an attenuator. Sounds great, RC is not a massive tone sucker, it is reactive as well. Can go direct too if preferred, but I prefer the sound of a mic'd amp. Bought the RC used for like $300, good deal. To me, non master volume amps are the purest of tone, but they need to be controlled somehow.
Man, I've been wanting a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander ever since it came out. What an _amazing_ machine.
Anthem!!! That a boy Andy!
any video with Andy gets a thumbsup, no question
A video on effects loops would be cool. Can’t say I’ve never used mine.
I thought I wanted the OX, but the Boss might be more of what I need...
@@cptcosmic agree Boss makes solid gear- I have been happy so far with my Boss pedals and multi FX units. Ox is cheap overpriced Chinese made crap.
I checked it out and saw the price on eBay, about £1700. But it’s awesome how it has a built in fx loop too. But the price aaaaaaaah.
@@owenjacka2658 The Boss Tube Amp Expander is now £999 which I think is very reasonable for all it's awesome features.
@@GuitarsAndSynths Cheap? Must be nice to have all that cash.
@@GuitarsAndSynths And Taiwan (where the Boss is made) is much better (probably is)?
Andy always plays good licks.
I use a Weber MiniMass on my Fender Pro Jr. 15watt amp - and it works great. I thought it was going to be a perfect bedroom/practice amp - but quickly found out there was no way I was going to be able to play it with out it rattling the windows. 100 bucks on Reverb. Without it, I would've had to take the amp back.
I've got a Weber Mass 150 but the UA OX is on my short list.
Got it? Was it better than the Weber?
Rivera Rockcrusher. I crank the hell outta my Blackheart BH100 Hot Head into it's 412 and my Krank Ninteen80 into a 212.
I have the Weber Mass Lite and it is great to be able to add frequency back into the signal.
Some of these are attenuators and some seem to be "boss katana in an attenuator" boxes for all kinds of wild things. I am looking for one now and was hoping for a Reverb overview. Fantasic. Thanks.
Wow, that Boss one sounds way better than the Ox.
Agreed - but I think that's because with the Ox he was demoing the speaker emulation and direct out, but with the Boss he was demoing the effects loop, and (I think) we were still hearing the physical cab in the room. I was hoping the hype was real, but I'm a bit shocked at how much tone was lost by the Ox when he switched to the speaker emulation.
I have been saving for the Waza.. Just $240 more and that baby is all mine. Lol.
@@TJRsongs UA hates Windows users anyways, so fuck em
@@TJRsongs Speaker Emulation will always do that; it's the same with the emulation in the Boss unit. You can use Impulse responses to get some of the dynamic response of a cabinet back in your signal, but it's never going to sound exactly like the real deal. That's why a good attenuator is so awesome.
rock crusher recorder by rivera. great eq can sound like any amp.
I've been watching Andy a while now. Andy is a top notch player and all videos he hosts are top notch !
Thanks Mom!
@@sgt.thundercok4704
Run along sport and don't forget to brush your teeth.
@@sgt.thundercok4704
P.S. - There's always someone better.
@@stricknine8623 LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@sgt.thundercok4704 That has got to be stinging
Been looking into something for my Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue.
@ctruxall0284 ...on their official site they explain why the rheostat feels that way.
Michael Loomis III same
That OX attenuator IR at 5:14 sounded nothing like your mic'd up amp. But it sounded pretty nice though. The Weber attenuator sounded pretty great to me though. All the character of the amp coming through. Really useful video thanks.
Loved the ZZ Top and Rush licks
I've been using a Bad Cat Unleash V2 for about a year. It is the best money I've spent to bring my tone to any gig, regardless of any volume limitations given by clubs/venues.
Excellent explanation of attenuators.
solid playing man. my boy lives in the mariana trench of the pocket!
I have the OX and really dig it... but the problem with the OX is the limited emulated cabinets may be hard to match your Favourite cabinet. This is still what I’m trying to achieve... get my OX to sound just like my miced up cab does. It is easy to make it sound good, but I want it to represent my actual rig... that is harder.
Thank you for not showing the two amps everyone else is showing. I recently went out to get my first amp, thought I was going to spend up to $200 for a Fender or Blackstar modeling amp, brought my Stratocaster with me, headed to the thrift shops first assuming they wouldn’t have what I wanted within my budget, and ended up with a great Marshall amp for $40 which I’ve seen being sold online for $125.
with such great and detailed explanations during the video, it would be nice not to hear complex music in the background.
EQ and OD pedal can get decent volumes out of tube amp at bedroom levels without altering the amp tone.
Sorta true, but not entirely. If you like the sound of your amp cranked or turned up, but need something to control that volume, attenuation is the way to go. You can certainly get away with an OD or EQ pedal at low volumes assuming that you are getting your gain tones from pedals and are playing into a clean amp, but it doesn't work for an amp that's cranked.
Yeah or you play a modern amp with mostly pre-amp gain and either built in EQ or at least presence and resonance settings
Props for the Anthem riff at the end. RUSH!
I have been using some Fryette Power Loads to balance different amps set at their ideal tones. Still a few patch cords short of bringing the line outputs back around through a mixer and effects to one more wet amplifier. All sorts of devices available on Reverb depending on the tool you want.
I think this is the first time I’ve heard Andy play Rush! 7:07
Thanks, I’ve always peppered them in these demos. A fave is Bytor & Snowdog in the Dunlop Echoplex demo ✌️
The Palmer works well for me, but the Ox sounds really good . Nice demo.
Boss is the boss!
Which one is better for a fly/travel rig?
Playing a Bowie tune! Awsome
Informative and very cool
another outstanding video and explanation Andy, you're a gift to guitarist everywhere.
Nice bit of Anthem in there!
Thanks, Andy for your dedication to the music scene. I'm kinda feeling that there is too much gear to hide bad guitar playing?
The first one wasn't the Tom Sholtz Power Soak, but "The Altair". I bought an Altair when it first came out because I had a 100watt Hiwatt I wanted to tame. This was sometime between 1979 and 1981, I don't remember exactly. But the Altair took out one of the transformers on that Hiwatt.
7:09 - Nice jam!!!!
Andy should just do everything reverb related from now on, i wont accept anything els😂😂
Okay, we know you're a better guitar player than we are. It is really annoying to sit through long show off sessions when we came to this video to gain technical knowledge.
That amp sounds wicked
If Andy says it’s good it good
Best Rush song ever! Killer!
Thank you for the video, excellent, like the Boss, and the one before it, but, not so clear on the boss, to cut down on the sound of the plexi head, only heard some word used expansion.
If you have skills you can build a Ken Fischer
Airbrake( Dr Z clones them) for under $100
info is out there and parts are cheap
I built a few they work great. Most
resistive attenuators do not affect tone until
you cut over 15db
So which Weber would be suitable with a Fender Blues Jr.? How would I set it up? Thanks again for your time and expertise!🙏🏻
While acknowledge that this is probably the 1000+1 time I've said this, the more time that goes by it only becomes more true: why, with the wide adoption of modelling systems like Helix, Fractal, Eleven, etc. And the sheer volume of great stand alone Preamps that are coming out: the fact that if you want a low watt, stand alone tube driven power amp, your choices are to purchase 1 of half dozen power amps (at best), or run them into the "return" of a normal amp head or combo, seems to me it's a HUGE hole in the market.
If you ask guitarist to name a few independent power amps that put out 20w or less, you have the Mesa 2020, and the Mooer, and that's about it. I just don't understand it, I'd think that if affordable class-A power amps were more available, they'd sell like crazy.
Why Bruce Egnater has yet to release the Rebel 20's output section as just a power amp, I REALLY don't get. How many players who use modellers or individual Preamps wouldn't want a power who amp they could run from anywhere from 20W down to 1W, AND be able to go between 6V6 or E84's?
I own a Rebel 20 head that I bought used a few years ago that I've literally only used the preamp in it 2 or 3 times, the main use is to slave it to a Stomp and the Custom Tones Ethos Overdrive Preamps and the Trainwreck TWE1.
I used a15W Tweaker pretty much for the same reason, because I can drop 6L6s, 6V6, KT66, KT88, EL84/34, etc. However I DO use that preamp from time to time.
4:52 - Mic'd speaker vs Load Box (Speaker Mute) - Playing sounds good!! Nothing like a real speaker pushing real air to a real mic!!!
Andy is the man. But, a bit too quick this one i think, try to show us a lot of things in a very short while. actually the weber that got most attention. Weber is Excellent. So is Ox. Boss I dont know. If u need just an attenuator, buy one like Weber, not ox, waxa or similar. If you need to recording silently, then ox and waza should come into the picture.
What they do is load the the tubes with resistors in place of the speaker so the volume is a lot lower. If you don't mind wearing out the tubes faster it does the trick.
I just got my first amp and cab and I’m worried how loud it’ll be and I think I need one of these haha def a simple one just so I can crank it but ya great info
Reactive load is only if you want to play silent through line-out? If you're attenuating to a lower volume, you still have the speaker (reactive) in the chain anyway...
Andy, Thank you for playing the " Hang on to yourself" riff Ronson or Bowie? sure sounded excellent
But on the flip side, thank you for bombarding me with too much data. I was going to buy a Rockman and wanted to hear one, not sure now.
Good playing andy
My second favorite ZZ Top song
So basically the attenuators reduces the loudness of an amp?
yes and no- they allow you to saturate the power amp tubes without loud volume levels and some have direct load boxes to balance the higher amp load.
That’s it’s basic job. If you play clean you don’t need an attenuator. If you like the sound of your preamp tubes distorting by using a master volume amp, an attenuator won’t do you much good. Likewise, running your amp clean and using a pedal for distortion will not get much benefit from an attenuator.
If you like the tone of your tube amp cranked, but need lower volume, a good attenuator is the tool for the job. This is power tube distortion (overdrive) and is only achievable at high power levels. Let’s use a 100 watt tube amp wide open as an example. When you hit the strings hard the amp sends 100 watts to the speaker cab, which turns it into sound. If you run the output of your amp into an attenuator, and out from the attenuator to the speaker cabinet you can lower the sound level. The attenuator has circuitry to absorb some of the amp’s output watts before being sent to the speaker. So in our example, the amp is cranked to 100 watts, the overdrive tone is killer, the attenuator ‘soaks up’ some of that wattage, let’s say 60 watts, and only passes 40 watts on to the speakers. If it all works right you get cranked up overdrive tone at reasonable sound volume levels.
Which do you think it would sound better, an attenuator, or an added master volume knob such the JHS little black amp box?
The attenuator allows you to turn up the amp to get the power tubes cookin', which is where the true "Tube Tone" comes from. With the JHS Little Black Box or a master volume, you're allowing the preamp section of the amp to get rockin', but then reducing that level before it slams into the power tubes.
The Bugera power soak is the best deal.
Great video. Any idea how many Db’s you had going? I’m trying to find the right solution to practice around 70-75dbs.
ok you can play well bravo . how about how to hook these up and real details on use
So if it goes between the amp and the speakers would it still work for a combo amp?
How do you connect an attenuator using a combo amp, like a voxac30?
Yeah, with the speaker out, but you'll have to connect to a cab or figure out a way to connect back to your combo speaker. Good luck
Would I be able to use an attenuator on a Supro Black Magick 1696RT? I love the tone, but I don’t want my neighbors to hate me.
That LP is beautiful! When will I be able to afford one...
i sold on with this exact flame top, no regrets cause it is heavy and my back is no strong but sound is great
buy a japanese lawsuit les paul--just as good.
Andy rules
Boss FTW
Attenuators for a 2 ohm super reverb?
Sorry this is two years late, but the Weber Mass 100 is selectable for amp inputs of 2/4/8/16 Ohms.
do i need volume pedal if i have already attenuator
Andy, why are you wearing a long sleeve sweater in the SUMMER!?
if you have a master volume on the amp could you still need an attenuators? what’s the difference? i’m thinking in particular of playing in home
Need it? No. But can be useful if you want the big tubes in the power section of the amp to really saturate and overdrive naturally, as opposed to op-amp stomp boxes. What this also allows is dynamics in your overdriven amp to lead that way, with an overdrive pedal it's always going to sound overdriven no matter how hard one's pick attack or playing is, but with an overdriven, tube saturated tone, there's more of an attack dynamic at play. And there's also a tone library to be found by now using one's volume knob on the actual guitar into a fully dimed amp. The difference is that the master volume on an MV amp turns the volume down in the preamp stage and never allows the big tubes (EL34s, 6L6, etc) to over saturate and give that organic and saturated tube tone, just those little-guy tubes in the preamp section. Ever hear a 6L6-loaded amp naturally overdriven? It's beautiful, but it takes a massive amount of volume to get there and one would need to control that...overdriven Fenders can sound amazing that way, and they can be overdriven...but it's loud.
Wow they seem very complicated especially for a beginner. I’m hoping for a simple one that just takes the nice quality tone that the amp produces and quiets it down without losing anything sound quality wise.
The fletcher munson curve is really easy to figure out. The Weber Mass is your best.
@@moustachio334 that is easily the most unhelpful helpful comment ever. Fletcher Munson curve? also the Weber Mass is your best what? The guy said he was a beginner so you threw in a load of wordy tripe at him.
Lol conveniently leaving out the Bugera PS1 I see
Been wondering about that one...
@@JsnHgl It has a few excellent reviews comparing it favourably with models multiple times it's price. It's what I'll be getting once I can afford the mini Plexi.
A bit of Ronno in the demos :-)
If your amp has a master volume knob, why would you want one of these?
Tube amps require a certain amount of volume to sound really good, something that is unobtainable if you have roomates or neighbors.
doctorrichford or if you want to have good hearing into old age 😄🤦♂️
Because the master gain mostly turns up the preamp tubes. That gives you an overdrive sound but not a really good tube crunch that turned up power tubes have.
Andy gets the thumbs up for 7:08 !
I have a fender bass man ‘59 reissue which attenuator would you suggest
The Weber Mass 100. It's selectable for amp inputs of 2/4/8/16 Ohms. I'm running one with my 4 Ohm Bassman into an 8 Ohm cab.
That ox sounded like a toy, I've been looking at both the Boss and the Ox for some time. I don't remember ever seeing a demo showing such a disparity. I need to check a few more out before I make my mind up. Thanks.
Another great toy that I can't afford!!!!LOLO What's the name of that Bowie song ??
ya too poor the salaries are dropping in the USA
I heard some old rush in there!
“Wonders in the world!”
I have a 65 Fender Princeton reissue (which I love). Can an Attenuator Damage my Amp in any way? Which one do you recommend to be Safe & Effective for a Princeton? I can't even put my amp past 2 - it's Blasting Loud. Appreciate any input. Stay Safe.
If you get one with a Power Amp built in, then it can definitely damage the speaker. Otherwise, the only risk is working the tubes harder. Unlike a master volume built into amps, attenuators are after the power amp. This means you're running the tubes at full power when you have it cranked. It won't do any damage, but it may shorten the lifespan of your power tubes.
KLB pan amps PB one attenuator…
A quality attenuator that won’t break the bank.
Hello! I’m recording and have an honest question. I have a Mini mass speaker attenuator in red; maybe it is an old model. It’s all red. Left to right has impedance, normal/bypas, treble, and finally volume. I want to use a Marshall Class 5 tube amp, which has a 16-ohm tab, and my Fender Mustang 4/12 can, which is 8 or 4 ohms. There is a mismatch in impedance. Is the toggle impedance on the attenuator a matching or corrective toggle? Can I use the attenuator to match the 16 ohm tab of the amp to match 8/4 ohm on my speaker cab? I’m new to this and prefer to ask than to damage the gear.
Best,
A
I have both OX and Boss and it depends on the pick ups weirdly. This is based on home studio BTW. The Waza is awful for P90 and some single coils. The ox, I find, is superb with the same. Both are great with actives and buckers. Ox is silent where the Waza does what it says and expands the amp which means lots of feedback. This tends to mean making sure it is way away from noisy pick ups. Both are top devices, Waza being good for live and studio. Nothing seems as studio quality as the ox software though.