I worked in a music shop for 5-6 years, while going to college for music and teaching way more guitar lessons a week than I probably should have. On top of that, I got into a band that, for a few years, played around 10+ gigs a month, (plus all rehearsals, recording, etc), and I eventually got so burned out that I quite everything, got a normal job and sold quite a bit of my gear to help support the family that my wife and I made. A few years on now, That Pedal Show has completely revitalized my obsession and love with music and gear, and brought all the wonderful things about guitar and playing music back...thanks guys! Can't get enough of it!
This is what separates mere mortals from professional like Iron Maiden in their 60 who still stand touring worldwide for almost a whole year long... And they're in this shit since 1980 (40 fucking years!).
I've learned more in the past 2 weeks of watching TPS episodes then in 21 years of playing, reading, googling and figuring things out. This show is hands down the best information on electric guitar rigs ever. Period. Thank you and please don't stop doing what you do!
Before I watch the video, I have a potentially fun idea for a video similar to the impractical board vs practical one: lots of knobs vs not very many. Basically pedals with the most fiddling options, against no knob, single knob etc,
I took a 4.5 year break from playing while I was at school. I made a New Year's Resolution (ya, I'm 1 of those people :P) to really get back at it. Watching you guys the past 10 months or so has helped jump-start my return to guitar! Pedals, tone, tricks, interviews with pros, etc. I've learned more the past year than I even knew was out there. Just wanted to let you guys know that I personally love the channel, and this has officially become part of my weekly Friday morning routine! Happy playing and as you gents across the Atlantic say...cheers!
+Joe Massie Thank you Joe! It means sooooo much to us to know that we’re a part of people’s inspiration to play in some way. Makes it all worthwhile. Happy tones to you and thank you for watching!
THANK YOU !!!!!! I am one of if not the only guy who kept bugging yall to make a video about this. I love you both, a massive thank you from Virginia, USA!!!!!
@@ThatPedalShow the Marshall dsl 100 has a master volume. A lot of user's post that they can use it to turn down the amp to bedroom levels ( 80 db or so) using just the master volume without an attenuator ( still usinga 4x12 cab without sacrificing tone). Have you guys tested this to be true? Also , what is the difference between using a dedicated attenuator vs using a volume pedal or an eq with a volume control in the effects loop of an amp that does not have a dedicated master volume ( but is still an amp that's too loud for home use) ? Have you guys tested attenuation using passive volume pedals ?
Another great video...but while a Sheriff 22 is the sensible choice, rock should never be sensible. I'm at that age where soon enough some nurse in a 'home' is going to be telling me it's time for my pills. My hearing is shot from doing sensible things, like earning a living for 40 years. I've never had the pleasure of owning a big Marshall stack, but by God I'm going to have one, and damn the attenuation. I want my internal organs shaking, the windows cracking, and the neighbours pounding (fruitlessly) on my door. The music that was born the same year I was shall not be compromised. I WILL NOT GO QUIETLY!
+David Woods let us know which nursing home you end up in, we'll join you. We'll be the old boys with cranked Marshalls, and a wing all to ourselves ;)
Sign me up! Got a Sheriff 22 this past year which to me does the Marshall thing pretty well and with a drive pedal in front is plenty loud with the vol half way up. To me the clean channel with a creamback is very fender sounding while channel 2 is a nice more marshall tone, worth a try if you want to hear a few more years. I had played a 40 watt Weber Climax amp with a THD attenuator which sounds great but the little lunch box 22 head and 2 little cabs with a creamback and a vintage 30 are so convenient and just perfect set up for most club gigs. Great show as usual guys!
I know this isn’t TPS’s reason for being but it’s good that you guys are addressing this in some form, thanks. Not everybody is a gigging guitarist playing flat out on stage. I think there are many low volume, home players that need help and advice. Not sure if starting loud and turning down is the best way to test this ? In my experience if you start low and get a good sound at a certain db level the perception is much better than going high to low. If you go from low to high the louder output often sounds compromised IMO which probably shows that your ears will attune to the starting point and any change isn’t perceived particularly well unless you have a long time to adjust to it. The speakers can also make a difference, (type, output and configuration), I get great results with a 0.5 power scaled Laney head (at around 80-85db) through a 2 x 12 cab with 1 x Celestion Type’ V’ 1 x Type’ A’ (I’d love to demonstrate this to the world but don’t have any recording equipment !). Manufacturers seem to match low power ‘practise’ amps with single 8 or 10 inch speakers when the breadth and depth afforded by a 2 x 12 produces such a positive effect the volume becomes less of an issue. There’s also no guarantee that a rig tailored for low volume will work as well at full tilt ! Apologies for the long (and a bit off topic post !)
+jake We absolutely agree Jake, thanks for taking the time to comment. For us it’s like cars or shoes. You don’t wear wellies and drive your muddy Land Rover to a wedding. Or indeed your handmade Church’s brogues and Ferrari in a field. They’re separate things for separate jobs. Horses for courses, etc. Cheers!
That first 14 minutes taught me many things. 1. After playing for a week Mick is especially rippin. 2. Dan is wonderfully knowledgeable about sound and amplification. Thanks!
There are other videos on this subject, but I just trust you guys. Your pedal recording setups plus playing styles and opinions make you the go to place for everything pedal/amp/guitar, so many thanks!
Another great video guys!! And I'm so glad it steered towards just rolling off that top 30% as opposed to squashing a loud amp for bedroom use. My main amp at the moment is a DIY Tweed Champ-esque amp, single-knob, running at about 15w with a 6L6WGC-STR in the output. I since installed a VCB (VVC) into it for the sole purpose of having the ability to roll that top 30% off live without affecting the gain in pre & post-amp sections (much) - keeping both the sound guy and myself happy! P.S. - your playing is on FIRE!!
The best explanation I have ever heard about how attenuators work with amps. Great channel guys! Love it. Probably my favorite guitar gear channel online.
After a late night visit from my neighbor asking me to turn down my amp...which was literally at room volume...I purchased a Rivera Rockcrusher Recorder for "bedroom" volume from my Mesa MV paired with an AC 30 and sometime the Rivera 100. I liked the idea of working with my gigging rig to practice what I specifically want on stage (thanks for the idea from your previous vid). I was skeptical about tone but the Rockcrusher shines with its graphic EQ and multi switches. I like it so much I now gig with it as a part of my rig to brush some of the harsh from a cranked amp in some room applications. Thanks guys for the quality info you deliver week in and week out! I'm a better player because of you!
I've been the proud owner of an old Marshall Super Lead for a couple years now, and as great as it sounds just cranked full tilt for gain, I've been using it at more an edge of breakup sound recently. Its a great pedal platform at that point, and you don't have to soak the signal too much to get that sound down to a stage level. Love it
Yet another stellar video. Just keeps getting better. Dan, don't forget us on the G2/pedal switch vid. And thank you for your response to my last comment on it. It truly is IMO a needed video and no one (in their right mind) could possibly accuse anyone of grandstanding. I'm sure I'm not the first to ask and it's been a couple of years now since the show started. You'e had TC, JHS, Kingsley and others on. Time for some G2!! (and others if you must)
This vid is manna from heaven for me. Just bought a Two Rock Classic Reverb Signature 100w with a 2x12 (Mick’s rig) and am just finding it too damn loud - waaaaay more than my Mesa 100w (!!!). The Powerstation sounds perfect - just hope it doesn’t rob the Two Rock of too much gooey loveliness ….
I just absolutely love how much Dan lights up every time I've seen him play a properly crankin amp. Cheers guys, thanks for all the great, informative content
Love your channel, guys. I use an old Tom Schulz Power Soak that I bought a few years ago. The seller "interviewed" potential buyers. I didn't know that until he told me it was mine. He was so attached to it since '79, and wanted to be sure I wouldn't flip it next day. I find that even an 18 watt TMB Marshall clone/head into 1960A needs attenuation sometimes. I had made an attenuator from a RadioShack in-wall volume control. Good up to 20 watts and 8 ohm impedance. Keep up the good work. I love it when you two go into the weeds and try to get back!
I use a compressor in the loop of my hotrod deluxe. Works great. Cuts the volume and adds compression, kinda like the amp would if it was cranked. Not sure if it’s good for the compressor or not!
+dan abnormal It’s a good shout Dan. I do this too sometimes (Mick here), try a boost too. Weird but true - can help for a bit of pseudo big amp feel. Nice!
Me too/agree. Also a classic trick is try putting a volume pedal (may also be any box with an output level too, like a compressor, YMMV) in EFX loop to send Pre-amp shaped sound out at Master Volume controlled levels. And as Mick says below, a boost can hit the output stage hard and make some nice sounds. Trying to say: If you have an EFX loop, use it! It took me years to realize my amps potential.....
What you mentioned around 8:54, about perceived differences in eq is so interesting and so important. Today I mentioned to my wife I was going to buy some musician's earplugs to use while playing at home. She asked why don't I just play softer. I tried to explain that it just wouldn't be the same. And here there's a scientific term for it.
Speaking of Palmer: they had this sweet little amp out (don't know whether or not it got discontinued in the meantime) which allowed you to blend three different types of power tubes in parallel (6V6, EL84 and one I forget). I just thought it might be a great thing for you to check out in the context of low volume power amp saturation. Great show as always. Greetings from Germany!
Another approach, arguably most accurate, is lowering speaker sensitivity. 3db less sensitivity is like cutting your amp power in half without affecting the signal at all. The Eminence Maverick and Reignmaker allow up to 9 db attenuation. It's adjustable via a dial at the magnet for 0 to 9db. 9db of attenuation is like taking a 50W amp and turning it into a 6.25W amp with no circuitry at all The frequency response does change a bit. It gets a little darker, a little more bass. This is because part of the magnet is out of the voice coil gap and it raises the Q of the driver making the bass somewhat fuller and slightly less control. This actually emulates to some degree what a speaker does as the voice o il heats up and compensates somewhat for the ear's lower sensitivity to bass at lower volumes. I promise I'll shut up now.
Be warned: Only attempt the EVH variac trick if you don't mind blowing through a complete set of tubes in next to no time. Any fluctuation in the heater voltage, particularly if it drops below 6.3v - even by as little as 10% - reduces the life of the tube by a large amount (upwards of 50%, at a 25% reduction in voltage the life is reduced by 75%. The cathodes get stripped of their coating and eventually fail to produce enough electrons to create the space charge.
Awesome Shawn Tubbs shout-out. So many excellent guitarists on TH-cam - Pete Thorn, Mike Hermans, Andy Martin, and even Mick here, but Shawn Tubbs honestly smokes them all. He's unbelievable. Hope to see him on the show one day!
Thank you for adjusting the mic preamps when testing the low wattage mode on the Sherrif so we could hear it properly. It's rare that people do that when comparing to 'full power'
+Andrew Bentley Essential! Such a cool low power mode. I tend to think low power modes always sound rubbish in amps (Mick here). But that one really works!
Working in a guitar store, this show is the best thing to have playing in the background. Great work as always! You guys need to pull down that Mutron from the wall for more videos, though
Great episode! I bought my first attenuator 4 years ago and used it for some practice, but eventually left it and haven't used it in quite some time. My 3rd Power British Dream amp has a 30 watt Plexi channel (as well as an AC30 channel) and even at 30 watts that thing is a religious experience when fully cranked! There's nothing like the high SPL of a cranked amp, really.
What Jesse has done with the LazyJ is remarkable. I spent the best part of an hour on the phone to him in early July talking about his new models among other things. My neighbours are out today so I took the chance to play my J20 for a bit. That attenuator is a piece voodoo magic if you spend enough time working it.
Guys, custom made earplugs. They have replaceable filters, -8, -15, -25db. I use them ALL the time and my hearing is pretty intact. Buy several filters. Always use a bigger filter on the ear that is closest to the amp speakers and you are golden. For the price of a nice pedal, you don't have to keep losing your hearing. They're the best gear purchase I have ever made.
Dude youre missing the point. Its about getting an amp in its tonal sweet spot without it being too loud in the mix for the band and more importantly, the audience! You wearing earplugs wont do anything to remedy this.
"It's positive!" - I dropped my phone at that point, thanks Mick! Never delved into attenuation, but it's fascinating... the Power Station is really impressive... if I ever need to go the attenuation route, I'll be better prepared- thanks guys!
As a father of three, I play in the basement with headphones on when the kids go down for the night. Thankfully, I have a friend who's single and lets me come over and crank his amp up as loud as I need to to get 'that feeling'. Like when I borrow my uncles F250, my heart pounds and testosterone and adrenaline shoots up instantly. Best feeling ever. The only way to get back from a high like that is getting back in the minivan to drive the kids to hockey...
Richard Harrold I usually plug my pedalboard into amplitube using irig. It's nothing like the real thing but it does a good job simulating how the amp responds to certain pedals I.e. overdrives, boosts, fuzz, etc. The one thing that's missing is the feel of the amps volume, which is a completely different playing experience than a quiet amp, even with the same tones. Thanks for the suggestion.
I seriously doubt it. Headphone speakers are far from the same thing as actual guitar speakers. They're tiny and have a terrible EQ range, whereas the speakers in amp cabinets are designed for guitar and are large enough and have the right EQ curve to do the job right. I don't have very expensive headphones, but I can't imagine better ones really making a difference because they're still going to be a little 3-4" speaker at the biggest.
Headphones don't even come close, I agree and thought that it was clear in my posts that I love a loud amp and the feeling of it when it's cranked. There is nothing better than playing an amp really loud, not even an amp that is at 75%, 50% of that volume. I unfortunately don't have the luxury of playing at the volumes that I want, so I have to make due with headphones for the time being so that I can play every day.
You miss out on a lot of the room tone when you play with headphones and that overly dry signal can sound a little weird. Some good cabinet impulses and/or a good reverb after the cabinet in your simulator should help but you can’t recreate the air movement of a loud amp. I like to think of a loud amp like adding chilli to your food, that little bit of pain makes everything more delicious. Rock responsibly.
Letting us know the price of these things as you mention them / bring them in would be really useful. No point me getting excited and the googling something only to discover it costs as much as or more than my amp already
As always,learned a lot today from Dan/Mick,what Mick said about effect loops and cable lengths,I used to run long cable runs for f2f to get my amp away a bit so I could crank it,but I noticed the delays sounded mushy,and note definition suffered,so now I put the amp head on a stand next to pedalboard,and use a long speaker cable to get the speaker away a bit,makes amp easier to adjust on the fly,only need 8ft cables for fx runs and dirt pedals to amp,same with combo amps,I just run extra speaker out unplug combo speaker.BIG Difference in tone!!!! Thanx T.P.S.!!
+LeCroix Band Hello, and thanks for the comment. Nice solution with the head re-placement. The learning from that whole scenario is that your rig is its own ecosystem, and the fix that works for you in the context of your gear, sound and style may not be the same fix for the next person. If TPS has a mission , perhaps this is at its core. There are no answers, only better questions. Thanks for watching!
Hahaha. Not to mention that HiWatt stack. Now you just need a big `ol fridge of effects from the `80s behind it and you can pretend your back stage warming up for the big show. Though I don't know what a filing cabinet would be doing there. You can just pretend it's a rolling hard case for all your guitars.
Really good episode! And very complicated subject. All the technical but also the observable differences with pure amp vs different attenuators. It really comes through how much the mic adjustments change the perceived sound and loudness. I feel like the Fryette's adjustments were really important in keeping the tone big and ballsy with attenuation. And that amp is just godlike. Good job with the episode! Also made me think about when you can take two of the four power tubes out to make it from 100 to 50 W with some amps without mods and biasing. I understand that wouldn't make it quieter in practice but help reaching that power section distortion easier, without blasting your ears out.
Terrific episode. I own the Power Station II and it does an incredible job of taming my powerful amps and cranking up my 20 watt amps. It also works really well paired with my Helix and a cab. Plus I like that it can go out to dual cabs.
I had a crash course on this a few years ago, I have a Friedman Buxom Betty and it's a great amp but man is it loud! Could not get it past "number 2" ish and the sweeter spot is around 4/5 and that would peel wallpaper off the walls, I have no idea how anyone would need an amp that loud. This vid would have helped me a lot, I ended up with a DrZ airbrake that I've fitted inside the cab, works great, just on the verge of a tiny bit of break up and its a great pedal platform. Loved this episode guys :)
It’s amazing what happens when you get into a bigger space with a bass player and drummer/keys etc and how loud you can be playing sometimes. That’s changing for many people, especially in function type venues, but plenty of bands still play loud. It’s a whole other experience. If you ever wonder why either of us (me especially - Mick here) struggle to do much creatively or play with any feeling or conviction on the show, it’s because I’m used to playing loud with other humans. Everything is different at that point... but not everyone does it, so it’s only of partial relevance to TPS. Cheers!
Hi Mick, I love that you have replied... I am a recent convert to the show (no idea how I've gone so long without knowing more about your show) Currently working through the back catalogue :) By the way, you playing on the show is great, and Dan's of course, perfect for demo purposes without showboating. I'm a nightmare in any other situation apart from performing or in a whole band, for me there is nothing worse than being in a guitar shop and trying to play something that actually sounds like me in any other time or place. I'm fine with playing loud but most venues like back line PAs so that limits output volume and thats when attenuation is valuable. Also my singer and bass player hate it when I turn up enough to cut through the mix. Sorry for rambling and keep up the great work.
Very informative! I'm currently shopping for this sort of set up! Its always cool when you can hit up a show you like to watch and get a little educated on things you are interested in using!!! Thanks from TX fellers!!!
Well i know the dangers of high volume. But for some reason i still have good hearing. I have played for 20 years. I know people think i am crazy. But i play marshall super 100 on a daily basis (2 4×12). I really NEED that fix, it is the Only drug i use. The way i react to that "explosion" affect totally how i feel when i play (and how i play). I definetly wont stop, i cant stop. I love it so much. Btw love the show :)
Have a power scaling type bedroom amp. Does a good job. Have owned a 1972 Fender Twin since 1989 and married an understanding wife. That amp defines my tone. Nothing like loud enough.
I got a Torpedo Reload a month or so ago and I can use any amp at any volume (150W max). It has a reactive load that keeps the feel of the amps when they're cranked and even better is I can go direct to a mixer/laptop and record silently. I mean, I'm cranking a Mesa Rectifier at 1:30 in the morning and the people around me are sound asleep... Doesn't get much better than that.
Thanks for this video - I knew nothing about attenuators. After contemplating for some time and looking at all the options, I decided to get a Fryette Powerstation to use with my Fender Reverb Deluxe. Now I can get the crunchy out of the amp I have not really heard very much until now because it just gets too darn loud. Love it. As I haver recently learned it will also give you a line out for direct recording or a feed to a front of house board without a mic, and can also boost a low wattage amp to be much louder. What an amazing box. Thanks for revealing it to me Pedal Guys :)
We used to reckon on the PA rig we used to run back in the 80s that the old Marshall 50 2x12 combo was the loudest amp in the world. Holding them down in the mix was a nightmare. Lot's of sneaking round the back to turn 'em down, when they weren't looking, went on. I'm currently in the middle of a DIY attenuator build for my old Selmers. The Concord 8 is just WAY too loud for the house... Simple passive resistive divider. Easy to get power resistors these days 100W & 50W. In the old days (70s) we used to sink a load of low Wattage resistors in paint cans full of engine oil. That crapped out sound you got from the FX Loop was the same noise I was getting from my ValveKing II just before it died. No conclusion from that, just the same noise.
As an owner of 4 early 70's marshalls it always amazes me how #1 they all sound different #2 they sound like the player and guitar #3 the reissues get pretty close to that sound despite all the negative forum reviews. With that blistering volume you really learn how to use your volume and tone controls.
I was lucky growing up, I had people around me with 60's and 70's Marshall's, 50's and 60's fenders, and some small combos like supro, ampeg and silvertone before they were cool again. In my teens during the late 90's early 2000s I did dumb shit like we all do. A new amp must be better than these old ones right? Eventually I found my way and after trying everything under the sun I am an old Marshall guy. I have the 4 50 watt heads, a bluesbreaker combo and 2 late 60's 2061's (the 20 watt with a lead and bass side). I have to say of all the old marshalls I've played my favorite is my 1970 50 watt bass, the 1986, it's allman, kossoff and Leslie west in a box. I prefer the 50 over the 100 watters just because of being able to get a little dirt at manageable levels. Controlling a 100 watt stack is definitely a skill you won't get playing digitally. Playing those old marshalls live you really learn about your guitar. Dan and mick if you ever find yourselves in NYC your welcome to come by and plug in. Sorry I don't own any strats or teles but no one is perfect right?
+T That’s awesome T, thank you! We know exactly what you’re talking about with 50 and 100-Watts and all that. You’re right about control too - there’s a whole generation of players who have never nor will ever experience it. If you have any interest at all in rock n roll or classic electric guitar sounds, not experiencing that visceral tone and power is really sad. It is going away however - breaks my heart. (Mick here). Thanks for the invite and of course for watching!
+Kevin Horne Oh wow, thank you Kevin. The unfortunate truth is that I’ve played many that I prefer. Not least Rabea Massaad’s rosewood board one and quite a few in Andertons over recent years. But for reasons I can’t explain, this one sticks. I love it dearly. Weird. :0)
This video was obviously a bi... a pain to record and I can only assume it was just as difficult to edit. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I enjoyed it and learned quite a bit.
Great video as always guys. I use a Marshall powerbreak with my JTM45, not for home use but just to take the edge off for live use. A 30w plexi cranked is still too loud for pub/club gigs. The problem of course is getting a volume boost for solos. You can't hit it with a clean boost because the power amp is already clipping so you'd just get more compression. You can ride the volume knob on the guitar, old school, but if the amp is rocking hard you're only really altering the gain from a nice rhythm crunch to a singing lead tone and the actual perceived volume is pretty much the same. So far my only solutions have been to use the volume knob like this and let the sound guy take care of boosting volume (we have our own sound guy so he knows what's coming), or to use the amp as a clean platform for pedals (which it does very well). Perhaps I've got the wong amp for my needs, but man it sounds good.
+Nigel Cassidy That’s a very good point Nigel. Clearly if you’re limiting the amp’s headroom (which is what a resistive load is doing), it’s hard to retain that level of dynamic range when it comes to stuff like solos. I think it’s why I (Mick here) have always struggled with attenuation... and compression for that matter... in a live situation. For //that sound// it’s truly awesome though. So there we are. You need two amps - one attenuated Marshall and one clean something else. Hello Eric Johnson! (Except without the attenuation). Thanks for the insight!
First, I'd like to say I was one of the ones that asked on multiple occaisions when you'd finally put this video together, so sorry for making you grumpy :) But as far as expanding this "series", I'd like to see how attenuators affect amps that have a master volume knob. On my JCM 800 2205, if I want to crank the "clean" channel, I will turn the channel volume way up, but I have to turn the master volume down. With attenuation, would I get a much better tone if I was able to keep the master volume up higher?
I've never tried an attenuator (resistor type not voltage scaling) that I could live with. The one interesting application I found was in driving a couple of vintage tweed amps I had. I got to hear the sound of the amp, itself, distorting without the sound of farty speakers. Taking speaker distortion out of the equation made them produce tones I couldn't otherwise get.
I built my own for a small 15 watt amp and it makes it so I can crank the amp and not wake a sleeping baby. Sure I don't get the full tone of a speaker being pushed hard, but every other part of the amp is working and it sounds pretty good
Thanks for the video! Was wondering what is the difference in making the sound quieter between power soak and if I put a volume pedal in effect look and reduce the volume there? Thanks for the answer.
With regards to those speakers with the rotatary attenuation control, speaker efficiency has a big effect on volume, so it’s possible to achieve attenuation simply by changing the efficiency of the speaker. Adjusting the flux density of the speaker magnet is a method used in the Eminence Reignmaker. Impedance and power handling are unchanged, but lower flux density makes the speaker less efficient and quieter. You can adjust the attenuation level by turning the rotary control at the back of the speaker itself.
I got a Dr. Z Brake Lite because if it's good enough for a Z, it's good enough for me. I treat it as another part in the chain that changes the sound the way I like it. It's always a compromise and the trick is to find the compromise that pleases you the most. I've tried smaller amps but it's just not the same. So I settled on an 18W amp with the attenuator.
Great episode guys! Reckon a hour spent exploring gain attenuation would normally be as interesting as watching a public health video on vasectomy.... But no! Completely informative, lots of concepts and practical outcomes to explore. BTW, love Dan’s playing this week!
Good stuff as always, gents. I have both a Suhr Reactive Load and the original Fryette Power Station. Both are great. I use the Suhr for direct recording, and the Fryette for boosting a lower wattage amp, direct recording, and attenuating the absurdly awful volume pot on a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. I hear the Two Notes gear is also good and I’m eager to try out the Torpedo Captor. Of course when you use these things for recording you’ll need some good speaker IRs, but that’s a whole other can of worms.
Eddie got a used Plexi that had a British Voltage plug 🔌. He had to cut the cord and spliced in a variac and a 110 plug 🔌. Happy accident he was able to turn down the voltage further. The power amp section was still wired for 220? reactance. That’s what I saw him say as he admitted to telling people he turned up the voltage and they in turn ruined their amps by blowing the transformers. I’m so glad we don’t have those vintage problems anymore.
Oh this is just perfect timing. I'm currently looking into attenuators. Currently thinking about the two notes captor or reload. But I'm looking forward to all your explanations!
My wife in the other room was asking me to turn the iPhone volume down while watching this. Again: she asked me to TURN MY IPHONE VOLUME DOWN. (Now THAT'S Rawk) WINNING!!! Hahaha!!!!
I've been considering the Bad Cat Unleash for the venues that tell me to turn down because I usually crank my 14 watt, non-master volume amp to 10 and dial the guitar back for rhythm. You can footswitch between two volume settings, run an effects loop, run direct with speaker simulation, and even do a wet/dry rig with it just running an extension speaker. Definitely take a look, I'd love to see you give it a test run!
![Understand Guitar Overdrive Pedals [Gain, Clipping, Headroom, EQ & All That] - That Pedal Show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UcMtN8y2Hes/mqdefault.jpg)
![Understand Guitar Overdrive Pedals [Gain, Clipping, Headroom, EQ & All That] – That Pedal Show](/img/tr.png)
I worked in a music shop for 5-6 years, while going to college for music and teaching way more guitar lessons a week than I probably should have. On top of that, I got into a band that, for a few years, played around 10+ gigs a month, (plus all rehearsals, recording, etc), and I eventually got so burned out that I quite everything, got a normal job and sold quite a bit of my gear to help support the family that my wife and I made. A few years on now, That Pedal Show has completely revitalized my obsession and love with music and gear, and brought all the wonderful things about guitar and playing music back...thanks guys! Can't get enough of it!
+Cody Nelson That is a fantastic story Cody, thank you for sharing! We wish you great tones and much love with getting your mojo back for playing. :0)
My exact story 20 years ago
Dude. I’m 40. This is exactly my story. This TH-cam channel and Julian Lage.
This is what separates mere mortals from professional like Iron Maiden in their 60 who still stand touring worldwide for almost a whole year long... And they're in this shit since 1980 (40 fucking years!).
I've learned more in the past 2 weeks of watching TPS episodes then in 21 years of playing, reading, googling and figuring things out. This show is hands down the best information on electric guitar rigs ever. Period. Thank you and please don't stop doing what you do!
Before I watch the video, I have a potentially fun idea for a video similar to the impractical board vs practical one: lots of knobs vs not very many. Basically pedals with the most fiddling options, against no knob, single knob etc,
I took a 4.5 year break from playing while I was at school. I made a New Year's Resolution (ya, I'm 1 of those people :P) to really get back at it. Watching you guys the past 10 months or so has helped jump-start my return to guitar! Pedals, tone, tricks, interviews with pros, etc. I've learned more the past year than I even knew was out there. Just wanted to let you guys know that I personally love the channel, and this has officially become part of my weekly Friday morning routine! Happy playing and as you gents across the Atlantic say...cheers!
+Joe Massie Thank you Joe! It means sooooo much to us to know that we’re a part of people’s inspiration to play in some way. Makes it all worthwhile. Happy tones to you and thank you for watching!
THANK YOU !!!!!! I am one of if not the only guy who kept bugging yall to make a video about this. I love you both, a massive thank you from Virginia, USA!!!!!
I know i am going to learn something when Dan says "so what happens is.....".
For instance that "the loudspeaker impedance changes with power" - it does not, it changes with frequency.
"For me..." that's the one I listen for haha
I see a new coffee mug: That Pedal Show - "Be the man you were meant to be."
+Eric Venters We like this. :0)
:)
Sold!
With a graphic of a Volume knob turned to "Eleven". ; )
@@ThatPedalShow the Marshall dsl 100 has a master volume. A lot of user's post that they can use it to turn down the amp to bedroom levels ( 80 db or so) using just the master volume without an attenuator ( still usinga 4x12 cab without sacrificing tone). Have you guys tested this to be true?
Also , what is the difference between using a dedicated attenuator vs using a volume pedal or an eq with a volume control in the effects loop of an amp that does not have a dedicated master volume ( but is still an amp that's too loud for home use) ? Have you guys tested attenuation using passive volume pedals ?
Another great video...but while a Sheriff 22 is the sensible choice, rock should never be sensible. I'm at that age where soon enough some nurse in a 'home' is going to be telling me it's time for my pills. My hearing is shot from doing sensible things, like earning a living for 40 years. I've never had the pleasure of owning a big Marshall stack, but by God I'm going to have one, and damn the attenuation. I want my internal organs shaking, the windows cracking, and the neighbours pounding (fruitlessly) on my door. The music that was born the same year I was shall not be compromised. I WILL NOT GO QUIETLY!
+David Woods let us know which nursing home you end up in, we'll join you. We'll be the old boys with cranked Marshalls, and a wing all to ourselves ;)
Idk man, I have the Mesa Mark V 25 and it can loosen some stubborn bile when it needs to lol I still can't turn it up all the way at gigs.
Make this happen!
We need to start a Kick Starter for a low cost Rock Retirement Residence. ;)
Sign me up! Got a Sheriff 22 this past year which to me does the Marshall thing pretty well and with a drive pedal in front is plenty loud with the vol half way up. To me the clean channel with a creamback is very fender sounding while channel 2 is a nice more marshall tone, worth a try if you want to hear a few more years. I had played a 40 watt Weber Climax amp with a THD attenuator which sounds great but the little lunch box 22 head and 2 little cabs with a creamback and a vintage 30 are so convenient and just perfect set up for most club gigs. Great show as usual guys!
I know this isn’t TPS’s reason for being but it’s good that you guys are addressing this in some form, thanks.
Not everybody is a gigging guitarist playing flat out on stage. I think there are many low volume, home players that need help and advice.
Not sure if starting loud and turning down is the best way to test this ? In my experience if you start low and get a good sound at a certain db level the perception is much better than going high to low.
If you go from low to high the louder output often sounds compromised IMO which probably shows that your ears will attune to the starting point and any change isn’t perceived particularly well unless you have a long time to adjust to it.
The speakers can also make a difference, (type, output and configuration), I get great results with a 0.5 power scaled Laney head (at around 80-85db) through a 2 x 12 cab with 1 x Celestion Type’ V’ 1 x Type’ A’ (I’d love to demonstrate this to the world but don’t have any recording equipment !).
Manufacturers seem to match low power ‘practise’ amps with single 8 or 10 inch speakers when the breadth and depth afforded by a 2 x 12 produces such a positive effect the volume becomes less of an issue.
There’s also no guarantee that a rig tailored for low volume will work as well at full tilt !
Apologies for the long (and a bit off topic post !)
+jake We absolutely agree Jake, thanks for taking the time to comment. For us it’s like cars or shoes. You don’t wear wellies and drive your muddy Land Rover to a wedding. Or indeed your handmade Church’s brogues and Ferrari in a field. They’re separate things for separate jobs. Horses for courses, etc. Cheers!
That first 14 minutes taught me many things. 1. After playing for a week Mick is especially rippin. 2. Dan is wonderfully knowledgeable about sound and amplification. Thanks!
+1ido9not8exist6 ah, cheers mate, yep, Mick is on fire
Inspiring tone in the intro, Mick. And of course superb playing!
+Origin Effects Thank you guys. It was happening today. And next week. :0)
The tone with the Page DS in the Powerstation loop after the pushed Marshall was killer, top playing all round
+Ed Tweed 5E4-A You should have heard it just with the Marshall and no attenuator. It was biblical. :0)
There are other videos on this subject, but I just trust you guys. Your pedal recording setups plus playing styles and opinions make you the go to place for everything pedal/amp/guitar, so many thanks!
you guys are currently my morning start to the day routine, geeking out ,making my rig, learning sounds..thanks fellas!
I built my own fixed attenuator with a bunch of Visaton resistors. Sounds good. Haven't stopped using it. If you can solder, you can build one too.
Another great video guys!! And I'm so glad it steered towards just rolling off that top 30% as opposed to squashing a loud amp for bedroom use. My main amp at the moment is a DIY Tweed Champ-esque amp, single-knob, running at about 15w with a 6L6WGC-STR in the output. I since installed a VCB (VVC) into it for the sole purpose of having the ability to roll that top 30% off live without affecting the gain in pre & post-amp sections (much) - keeping both the sound guy and myself happy!
P.S. - your playing is on FIRE!!
+Andy Hosker Nice one Andy. To us that’s where attenuators make the most musical sense. Thank you for the kind words. :0)
The best explanation I have ever heard about how attenuators work with amps. Great channel guys! Love it. Probably my favorite guitar gear channel online.
After a late night visit from my neighbor asking me to turn down my amp...which was literally at room volume...I purchased a Rivera Rockcrusher Recorder for "bedroom" volume from my Mesa MV paired with an AC 30 and sometime the Rivera 100. I liked the idea of working with my gigging rig to practice what I specifically want on stage (thanks for the idea from your previous vid).
I was skeptical about tone but the Rockcrusher shines with its graphic EQ and multi switches. I like it so much I now gig with it as a part of my rig to brush some of the harsh from a cranked amp in some room applications.
Thanks guys for the quality info you deliver week in and week out! I'm a better player because of you!
+Joseph Myers that's great J, yes, must get a rock crusher on the show :)
Yes please. I'd like to hear your take and how you'll expand my knowledge and usage.
I've been the proud owner of an old Marshall Super Lead for a couple years now, and as great as it sounds just cranked full tilt for gain, I've been using it at more an edge of breakup sound recently. Its a great pedal platform at that point, and you don't have to soak the signal too much to get that sound down to a stage level. Love it
Totally agree - Mick here. Don’t tell anyone, but I actually prefer Plexis used like that. Niiiiice!
Yes....I do...I have 5 Marshalls from 67 to 72....I need 2 thd 16 ohm hot plates
Yet another stellar video. Just keeps getting better. Dan, don't forget us on the G2/pedal switch vid. And thank you for your response to my last comment on it. It truly is IMO a needed video and no one (in their right mind) could possibly accuse anyone of grandstanding. I'm sure I'm not the first to ask and it's been a couple of years now since the show started. You'e had TC, JHS, Kingsley and others on. Time for some G2!! (and others if you must)
This vid is manna from heaven for me. Just bought a Two Rock Classic Reverb Signature 100w with a 2x12 (Mick’s rig) and am just finding it too damn loud - waaaaay more than my Mesa 100w (!!!). The Powerstation sounds perfect - just hope it doesn’t rob the Two Rock of too much gooey loveliness ….
I just absolutely love how much Dan lights up every time I've seen him play a properly crankin amp. Cheers guys, thanks for all the great, informative content
Love your channel, guys. I use an old Tom Schulz Power Soak that I bought a few years ago. The seller "interviewed" potential buyers. I didn't know that until he told me it was mine. He was so attached to it since '79, and wanted to be sure I wouldn't flip it next day.
I find that even an 18 watt TMB Marshall clone/head into 1960A needs attenuation sometimes. I had made an attenuator from a RadioShack in-wall volume control. Good up to 20 watts and 8 ohm impedance. Keep up the good work. I love it when you two go into the weeds and try to get back!
I use a compressor in the loop of my hotrod deluxe. Works great. Cuts the volume and adds compression, kinda like the amp would if it was cranked. Not sure if it’s good for the compressor or not!
+dan abnormal It’s a good shout Dan. I do this too sometimes (Mick here), try a boost too. Weird but true - can help for a bit of pseudo big amp feel. Nice!
Can't wait to try this!
That Pedal Show did you guys not previously do an episode where you put a compressor in the loop? I can't remember which one it was!
So you just run in through the effects loop?
Me too/agree. Also a classic trick is try putting a volume pedal (may also be any box with an output level too, like a compressor, YMMV) in EFX loop to send Pre-amp shaped sound out at Master Volume controlled levels. And as Mick says below, a boost can hit the output stage hard and make some nice sounds. Trying to say: If you have an EFX loop, use it! It took me years to realize my amps potential.....
What you mentioned around 8:54, about perceived differences in eq is so interesting and so important. Today I mentioned to my wife I was going to buy some musician's earplugs to use while playing at home. She asked why don't I just play softer. I tried to explain that it just wouldn't be the same. And here there's a scientific term for it.
Speaking of Palmer: they had this sweet little amp out (don't know whether or not it got discontinued in the meantime) which allowed you to blend three different types of power tubes in parallel (6V6, EL84 and one I forget). I just thought it might be a great thing for you to check out in the context of low volume power amp saturation.
Great show as always. Greetings from Germany!
Another approach, arguably most accurate, is lowering speaker sensitivity. 3db less sensitivity is like cutting your amp power in half without affecting the signal at all. The Eminence Maverick and Reignmaker allow up to 9 db attenuation. It's adjustable via a dial at the magnet for 0 to 9db. 9db of attenuation is like taking a 50W amp and turning it into a 6.25W amp with no circuitry at all The frequency response does change a bit. It gets a little darker, a little more bass. This is because part of the magnet is out of the voice coil gap and it raises the Q of the driver making the bass somewhat fuller and slightly less control. This actually emulates to some degree what a speaker does as the voice o il heats up and compensates somewhat for the ear's lower sensitivity to bass at lower volumes. I promise I'll shut up now.
These guys always come up with the best tones imaginable..
Awesome! Hopefully that’s us, or you forgot to post the link. /0)
Brilliant, as always, guys. You make my Fridays!
Thumb up for leaving a good comment and not saying 'first'.
Be warned: Only attempt the EVH variac trick if you don't mind blowing through a complete set of tubes in next to no time. Any fluctuation in the heater voltage, particularly if it drops below 6.3v - even by as little as 10% - reduces the life of the tube by a large amount (upwards of 50%, at a 25% reduction in voltage the life is reduced by 75%. The cathodes get stripped of their coating and eventually fail to produce enough electrons to create the space charge.
Great info and video chaps. Most of us only have 'modest' size amps, but still converted! Saved me going out and buying a small 1watt amp!
Awesome Shawn Tubbs shout-out. So many excellent guitarists on TH-cam - Pete Thorn, Mike Hermans, Andy Martin, and even Mick here, but Shawn Tubbs honestly smokes them all. He's unbelievable. Hope to see him on the show one day!
That opening jam by Mick was amazing, loved the tone change half way through!
Thank you for adjusting the mic preamps when testing the low wattage mode on the Sherrif so we could hear it properly. It's rare that people do that when comparing to 'full power'
+Andrew Bentley Essential! Such a cool low power mode. I tend to think low power modes always sound rubbish in amps (Mick here). But that one really works!
Working in a guitar store, this show is the best thing to have playing in the background. Great work as always! You guys need to pull down that Mutron from the wall for more videos, though
+Nick Larson cheers Nick, and yes, some Mutron love on the way :)
DUDE! I dont remember going but I must have been to jazz school too! I'm so good I am always just behind or just in front of the beat!!
Great episode! I bought my first attenuator 4 years ago and used it for some practice, but eventually left it and haven't used it in quite some time.
My 3rd Power British Dream amp has a 30 watt Plexi channel (as well as an AC30 channel) and even at 30 watts that thing is a religious experience when fully cranked! There's nothing like the high SPL of a cranked amp, really.
+Andrew Riley Mick here. I agree absolutely entirely. Cheers!
Haha “and you’re back in the room”…great reference! “Look in my eyes….” Good Fry!
Absolutely loving these longer shows! Look forward to you guys every Friday :)
What Jesse has done with the LazyJ is remarkable. I spent the best part of an hour on the phone to him in early July talking about his new models among other things. My neighbours are out today so I took the chance to play my J20 for a bit. That attenuator is a piece voodoo magic if you spend enough time working it.
Man, that intro was super dynamic! Great playing Mick
+Mark Artyniuk Thank you Mark!
Guys, custom made earplugs. They have replaceable filters, -8, -15, -25db. I use them ALL the time and my hearing is pretty intact. Buy several filters. Always use a bigger filter on the ear that is closest to the amp speakers and you are golden. For the price of a nice pedal, you don't have to keep losing your hearing. They're the best gear purchase I have ever made.
Smart man you are Aron!
That's interesting but you forgot to begin that with: "So what happens is..".
Like what Paul Gilbert wears?
Dude youre missing the point. Its about getting an amp in its tonal sweet spot without it being too loud in the mix for the band and more importantly, the audience! You wearing earplugs wont do anything to remedy this.
Marshall stacks were designed to be played loud at stadium volume. Different times!
Mick! That playing at the top of this video is GLORIOUS!! Nicely done, sir!
+Stanley Culler Why thank you Stanley!
The input level on the Fryette is to attenute high power amps in the "Hi" position and to boost low power amps in the "Lo" position.
"It's positive!" - I dropped my phone at that point, thanks Mick!
Never delved into attenuation, but it's fascinating... the Power Station is really impressive... if I ever need to go the attenuation route, I'll be better prepared- thanks guys!
As a father of three, I play in the basement with headphones on when the kids go down for the night. Thankfully, I have a friend who's single and lets me come over and crank his amp up as loud as I need to to get 'that feeling'. Like when I borrow my uncles F250, my heart pounds and testosterone and adrenaline shoots up instantly. Best feeling ever. The only way to get back from a high like that is getting back in the minivan to drive the kids to hockey...
I've tried headphones before, and every time it sounds so bad to me I can't stand playing and just turn it off and put the guitar down.
Richard Harrold I usually plug my pedalboard into amplitube using irig. It's nothing like the real thing but it does a good job simulating how the amp responds to certain pedals I.e. overdrives, boosts, fuzz, etc. The one thing that's missing is the feel of the amps volume, which is a completely different playing experience than a quiet amp, even with the same tones. Thanks for the suggestion.
I seriously doubt it. Headphone speakers are far from the same thing as actual guitar speakers. They're tiny and have a terrible EQ range, whereas the speakers in amp cabinets are designed for guitar and are large enough and have the right EQ curve to do the job right. I don't have very expensive headphones, but I can't imagine better ones really making a difference because they're still going to be a little 3-4" speaker at the biggest.
Headphones don't even come close, I agree and thought that it was clear in my posts that I love a loud amp and the feeling of it when it's cranked. There is nothing better than playing an amp really loud, not even an amp that is at 75%, 50% of that volume. I unfortunately don't have the luxury of playing at the volumes that I want, so I have to make due with headphones for the time being so that I can play every day.
You miss out on a lot of the room tone when you play with headphones and that overly dry signal can sound a little weird. Some good cabinet impulses and/or a good reverb after the cabinet in your simulator should help but you can’t recreate the air movement of a loud amp.
I like to think of a loud amp like adding chilli to your food, that little bit of pain makes everything more delicious. Rock responsibly.
I could have just listened to the Victory for an hour. That amp is an absolute no brainer!
Letting us know the price of these things as you mention them / bring them in would be really useful. No point me getting excited and the googling something only to discover it costs as much as or more than my amp already
As always,learned a lot today from Dan/Mick,what Mick said about effect loops and cable lengths,I used to run long cable runs for f2f to get my amp away a bit so I could crank it,but I noticed the delays sounded mushy,and note definition suffered,so now I put the amp head on a stand next to pedalboard,and use a long speaker cable to get the speaker away a bit,makes amp easier to adjust on the fly,only need 8ft cables for fx runs and dirt pedals to amp,same with combo amps,I just run extra speaker out unplug combo speaker.BIG Difference in tone!!!! Thanx T.P.S.!!
+LeCroix Band Hello, and thanks for the comment. Nice solution with the head re-placement. The learning from that whole scenario is that your rig is its own ecosystem, and the fix that works for you in the context of your gear, sound and style may not be the same fix for the next person. If TPS has a mission , perhaps this is at its core. There are no answers, only better questions. Thanks for watching!
Oh man! I can’t wait to watch this one over and over this weekend. Thanks guys!! I have always wanted to delve into this.
Best advice - Attenuate the positive, Eliminate the negative and don't mess with Mister In-between. Good vid as ever That Sauna Show.
+TheVimFuego You saucy devil. Don’t mention the sauna!
Not even pressed play yet and I know it's going to be a great episode. Sat here with my Blues Junior and Two Notes Reload in anticipation
+lunarstablos Aha, well this is old school attenuation - no IRs or direct signals here. We’re getting to that in a few weeks. Cheers!
And here I am sat in a 6x8 office with a 100W HiWatt next to my desk......
+fletches40 You win the internet today.
6X8 feet? No offense but it sounds like they gave you the janitor's closet.
TBF its probably 6x10 but the beer fridge and the filing cabinet take up some space.
Hahaha. Not to mention that HiWatt stack. Now you just need a big `ol fridge of effects from the `80s behind it and you can pretend your back stage warming up for the big show. Though I don't know what a filing cabinet would be doing there. You can just pretend it's a rolling hard case for all your guitars.
Dan, i challenge you to add a bit of Cold Chisel in a future vid. Very popular in OZ, but pretty unknown outside.
+Richard Huckle challenge excepted :)
Mossy is in the UK in a few weeks. My cousins band is doing supports. Opperman Brown with my cousin Matthew Brown
Really good episode! And very complicated subject. All the technical but also the observable differences with pure amp vs different attenuators. It really comes through how much the mic adjustments change the perceived sound and loudness. I feel like the Fryette's adjustments were really important in keeping the tone big and ballsy with attenuation. And that amp is just godlike. Good job with the episode!
Also made me think about when you can take two of the four power tubes out to make it from 100 to 50 W with some amps without mods and biasing. I understand that wouldn't make it quieter in practice but help reaching that power section distortion easier, without blasting your ears out.
"I want to grow a mustache, buy a mustang, and be the man I was meant to be"
Yeah, seeing Dan get so excited about the Marshall halfway up was great!
Just the outline of his arms raised and his tele and head with the words in the middle... perfection.
Terrific episode. I own the Power Station II and it does an incredible job of taming my powerful amps and cranking up my 20 watt amps. It also works really well paired with my Helix and a cab. Plus I like that it can go out to dual cabs.
Love my Power Station 2. The effects loop is shockingly good.
I had a crash course on this a few years ago, I have a Friedman Buxom Betty and it's a great amp but man is it loud! Could not get it past "number 2" ish and the sweeter spot is around 4/5 and that would peel wallpaper off the walls, I have no idea how anyone would need an amp that loud.
This vid would have helped me a lot, I ended up with a DrZ airbrake that I've fitted inside the cab, works great, just on the verge of a tiny bit of break up and its a great pedal platform.
Loved this episode guys :)
It’s amazing what happens when you get into a bigger space with a bass player and drummer/keys etc and how loud you can be playing sometimes. That’s changing for many people, especially in function type venues, but plenty of bands still play loud. It’s a whole other experience. If you ever wonder why either of us (me especially - Mick here) struggle to do much creatively or play with any feeling or conviction on the show, it’s because I’m used to playing loud with other humans. Everything is different at that point... but not everyone does it, so it’s only of partial relevance to TPS. Cheers!
Hi Mick, I love that you have replied... I am a recent convert to the show (no idea how I've gone so long without knowing more about your show) Currently working through the back catalogue :)
By the way, you playing on the show is great, and Dan's of course, perfect for demo purposes without showboating. I'm a nightmare in any other situation apart from performing or in a whole band, for me there is nothing worse than being in a guitar shop and trying to play something that actually sounds like me in any other time or place.
I'm fine with playing loud but most venues like back line PAs so that limits output volume and thats when attenuation is valuable.
Also my singer and bass player hate it when I turn up enough to cut through the mix.
Sorry for rambling and keep up the great work.
I needed one so I can crank my tube amp in my apartment without getting evicted :-)
I had to re-watch this as I recently bought a loud amp. I forgot what great tones you can get from a bit of attenuation.
Very informative! I'm currently shopping for this sort of set up! Its always cool when you can hit up a show you like to watch and get a little educated on things you are interested in using!!! Thanks from TX fellers!!!
Well i know the dangers of high volume. But for some reason i still have good hearing. I have played for 20 years. I know people think i am crazy. But i play marshall super 100 on a daily basis (2 4×12). I really NEED that fix, it is the Only drug i use. The way i react to that "explosion" affect totally how i feel when i play (and how i play). I definetly wont stop, i cant stop. I love it so much. Btw love the show :)
Have a power scaling type bedroom amp. Does a good job. Have owned a 1972 Fender Twin since 1989 and married an understanding wife. That amp defines my tone. Nothing like loud enough.
I got a Torpedo Reload a month or so ago and I can use any amp at any volume (150W max). It has a reactive load that keeps the feel of the amps when they're cranked and even better is I can go direct to a mixer/laptop and record silently. I mean, I'm cranking a Mesa Rectifier at 1:30 in the morning and the people around me are sound asleep... Doesn't get much better than that.
Swart make really good and small attenuators AND they flash blue when you play! Would be great to see you guys demo some Swart gear.
Man, I absolutely love strats. No other guitar sounds quite like it.
+João Lisboa No arguments from me. (Mick here).
Mick, your playing on the intro was sublime
+jasfiona Thank you sir!
It is a visceral experience to hear that type of dB with that Marshall midrange! ! Face melting indeed! !
+nicholas ditolla sure is, it's the experience that gig s lot of us hooked on guitar in the first place ;)
"It's positive"... love you guys!, Always entertaining, informative, and musical.
That tone at the 43min mark is spectacular!
I look forward to the attenuating speaker episode.
Thanks for this video - I knew nothing about attenuators. After contemplating for some time and looking at all the options, I decided to get a Fryette Powerstation to use with my Fender Reverb Deluxe. Now I can get the crunchy out of the amp I have not really heard very much until now because it just gets too darn loud. Love it. As I haver recently learned it will also give you a line out for direct recording or a feed to a front of house board without a mic, and can also boost a low wattage amp to be much louder. What an amazing box. Thanks for revealing it to me Pedal Guys :)
Oh man. The Page gets me every time.
Great video! I own two 1W Marshall heads (JCM1H and JVM1H) on a stereo 4x12, sounds amazing at apartment level with the volume at 3 or 4.
We used to reckon on the PA rig we used to run back in the 80s that the old Marshall 50 2x12 combo was the loudest amp in the world. Holding them down in the mix was a nightmare. Lot's of sneaking round the back to turn 'em down, when they weren't looking, went on.
I'm currently in the middle of a DIY attenuator build for my old Selmers. The Concord 8 is just WAY too loud for the house... Simple passive resistive divider. Easy to get power resistors these days 100W & 50W. In the old days (70s) we used to sink a load of low Wattage resistors in paint cans full of engine oil.
That crapped out sound you got from the FX Loop was the same noise I was getting from my ValveKing II just before it died. No conclusion from that, just the same noise.
As an owner of 4 early 70's marshalls it always amazes me how #1 they all sound different #2 they sound like the player and guitar #3 the reissues get pretty close to that sound despite all the negative forum reviews. With that blistering volume you really learn how to use your volume and tone controls.
+T No arguments here. We like the reissues too. But 4 early 70s ones - that’s awesome. :0)
I was lucky growing up, I had people around me with 60's and 70's Marshall's, 50's and 60's fenders, and some small combos like supro, ampeg and silvertone before they were cool again. In my teens during the late 90's early 2000s I did dumb shit like we all do. A new amp must be better than these old ones right? Eventually I found my way and after trying everything under the sun I am an old Marshall guy. I have the 4 50 watt heads, a bluesbreaker combo and 2 late 60's 2061's (the 20 watt with a lead and bass side). I have to say of all the old marshalls I've played my favorite is my 1970 50 watt bass, the 1986, it's allman, kossoff and Leslie west in a box. I prefer the 50 over the 100 watters just because of being able to get a little dirt at manageable levels. Controlling a 100 watt stack is definitely a skill you won't get playing digitally. Playing those old marshalls live you really learn about your guitar. Dan and mick if you ever find yourselves in NYC your welcome to come by and plug in. Sorry I don't own any strats or teles but no one is perfect right?
+T That’s awesome T, thank you! We know exactly what you’re talking about with 50 and 100-Watts and all that. You’re right about control too - there’s a whole generation of players who have never nor will ever experience it. If you have any interest at all in rock n roll or classic electric guitar sounds, not experiencing that visceral tone and power is really sad. It is going away however - breaks my heart. (Mick here). Thanks for the invite and of course for watching!
Mick's Strat is my favorite Strat in the world. Beautiful and sounds incredible.
+Kevin Horne Oh wow, thank you Kevin. The unfortunate truth is that I’ve played many that I prefer. Not least Rabea Massaad’s rosewood board one and quite a few in Andertons over recent years. But for reasons I can’t explain, this one sticks. I love it dearly. Weird. :0)
I'm just a sucker for Daphne Blue or whatever that color is plus the aged mint green pickguard. Ace! :)
This video was obviously a bi... a pain to record and I can only assume it was just as difficult to edit. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I enjoyed it and learned quite a bit.
+JKM395 Ah, there are harder things to do JKM. It’s an absolute pleasure doing this stuff - thanks for watching!
Great video as always guys. I use a Marshall powerbreak with my JTM45, not for home use but just to take the edge off for live use. A 30w plexi cranked is still too loud for pub/club gigs. The problem of course is getting a volume boost for solos. You can't hit it with a clean boost because the power amp is already clipping so you'd just get more compression. You can ride the volume knob on the guitar, old school, but if the amp is rocking hard you're only really altering the gain from a nice rhythm crunch to a singing lead tone and the actual perceived volume is pretty much the same. So far my only solutions have been to use the volume knob like this and let the sound guy take care of boosting volume (we have our own sound guy so he knows what's coming), or to use the amp as a clean platform for pedals (which it does very well). Perhaps I've got the wong amp for my needs, but man it sounds good.
+Nigel Cassidy oooh, switchable attenuator, the iron man is coming out soon which does just that
+Nigel Cassidy That’s a very good point Nigel. Clearly if you’re limiting the amp’s headroom (which is what a resistive load is doing), it’s hard to retain that level of dynamic range when it comes to stuff like solos. I think it’s why I (Mick here) have always struggled with attenuation... and compression for that matter... in a live situation. For //that sound// it’s truly awesome though. So there we are. You need two amps - one attenuated Marshall and one clean something else. Hello Eric Johnson! (Except without the attenuation). Thanks for the insight!
I pressed "Like" at the very beginning when I heard that strat grunt.
First, I'd like to say I was one of the ones that asked on multiple occaisions when you'd finally put this video together, so sorry for making you grumpy :) But as far as expanding this "series", I'd like to see how attenuators affect amps that have a master volume knob. On my JCM 800 2205, if I want to crank the "clean" channel, I will turn the channel volume way up, but I have to turn the master volume down. With attenuation, would I get a much better tone if I was able to keep the master volume up higher?
If anybody asks you why are the old Marshall amps still popular check out Dan's reaction at 16:11. That tells you everything you need to know. :)
+Jam Junkies yep ;)
I've never tried an attenuator (resistor type not voltage scaling) that I could live with. The one interesting application I found was in driving a couple of vintage tweed amps I had. I got to hear the sound of the amp, itself, distorting without the sound of farty speakers. Taking speaker distortion out of the equation made them produce tones I couldn't otherwise get.
I built my own for a small 15 watt amp and it makes it so I can crank the amp and not wake a sleeping baby. Sure I don't get the full tone of a speaker being pushed hard, but every other part of the amp is working and it sounds pretty good
Thanks for the video!
Was wondering what is the difference in making the sound quieter between power soak and if I put a volume pedal in effect look and reduce the volume there?
Thanks for the answer.
I love my Cornell Vintage Brown set at 0.05 watt output. Bedroom level with tone!
Bit late to the party, but thank you gentlemen. Excellent vid.
Thanks Steve!
Subscribed. Checked two more since, very impressive, and to my mind, genuine.
Great to have you here Steve - welcome to the family!
With regards to those speakers with the rotatary attenuation control, speaker efficiency has a big effect on volume, so it’s possible to achieve attenuation simply by changing the efficiency of the speaker. Adjusting the flux density of the speaker magnet is a method used in the Eminence Reignmaker. Impedance and power handling are unchanged, but lower flux density makes the speaker less efficient and quieter. You can adjust the attenuation level by turning the rotary control at the back of the speaker itself.
I got a Dr. Z Brake Lite because if it's good enough for a Z, it's good enough for me. I treat it as another part in the chain that changes the sound the way I like it. It's always a compromise and the trick is to find the compromise that pleases you the most. I've tried smaller amps but it's just not the same. So I settled on an 18W amp with the attenuator.
Great episode guys! Reckon a hour spent exploring gain attenuation would normally be as interesting as watching a public health video on vasectomy....
But no! Completely informative, lots of concepts and practical outcomes to explore.
BTW, love Dan’s playing this week!
This is too much awesomeness in one video!! Really regretting selling my 1987x now!! 😩
Good stuff as always, gents. I have both a Suhr Reactive Load and the original Fryette Power Station. Both are great. I use the Suhr for direct recording, and the Fryette for boosting a lower wattage amp, direct recording, and attenuating the absurdly awful volume pot on a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. I hear the Two Notes gear is also good and I’m eager to try out the Torpedo Captor. Of course when you use these things for recording you’ll need some good speaker IRs, but that’s a whole other can of worms.
+theHlessOne We’re diving down that rabbit hole soon. There’s a cool new product coming out that we’re going to start with... :0)
Greg Koch on TPS! I can't wait to see this. It is going to be epic. Thank you for making this happen!!
Eddie got a used Plexi that had a British Voltage plug 🔌. He had to cut the cord and spliced in a variac and a 110 plug 🔌. Happy accident he was able to turn down the voltage further. The power amp section was still wired for 220? reactance. That’s what I saw him say as he admitted to telling people he turned up the voltage and they in turn ruined their amps by blowing the transformers. I’m so glad we don’t have those vintage problems anymore.
Oh this is just perfect timing. I'm currently looking into attenuators. Currently thinking about the two notes captor or reload. But I'm looking forward to all your explanations!
My wife in the other room was asking me to turn the iPhone volume down while watching this. Again: she asked me to TURN MY IPHONE VOLUME DOWN. (Now THAT'S Rawk) WINNING!!! Hahaha!!!!
+Brad Dietz Oh man that’s rough. Headphones is the way forward. Sounds MUCH better too..:
I've been considering the Bad Cat Unleash for the venues that tell me to turn down because I usually crank my 14 watt, non-master volume amp to 10 and dial the guitar back for rhythm. You can footswitch between two volume settings, run an effects loop, run direct with speaker simulation, and even do a wet/dry rig with it just running an extension speaker. Definitely take a look, I'd love to see you give it a test run!
Great soulful playing mick in the opening scene...mesmerising young daniel...cheers
+tweed guitar That’s very kind, thank you sir!
Fascinating video with many useful points to think about, thank you!
I had a brake lite with my Dr. Z...not a fan, sold it. I checked out Shawn Tubbs and WOW!! That guy is amazing...Thanks for the suggestion.