I am British but grew up in France, and the laws over there are very different, the equivalent of a theory test called AM license is actually included in our education at 14 at the start of summer holidays the school will do a couple hours teaching road safety then do the theory test which is really easy but everyone does it and it teaches everyone road laws and safety, then you can do a quick test which is very cheap then you can ride a 50cc at 14, when you get to 16 you can apply to do a AM2 license which is fairly simple theory test then a cheap regular road test, after you pass you can ride any from from 50cc to 125cc, when you are 18 you can then do a full license and ride any motorbike of your choosing and it's all quite cheap and because it's cheap majority of 14 or 15 year Olds get a 50cc 2 stroke, absolutely rail the engine and make it able to go 60mph to 70mph, then when they get to 16 or some even keep that 50cc bike till they are 18 then do a full test, to upgrade and they are all experienced and such.
I raced motocross for 5 years and had a 250 for a little bit but as a 17 year old going for my full license I can only go up to 125cc, can't complain and idc about the L plates but bikes are so expensive and the government want me to buy new bikes every single time I age 2 years, and not to mention how expensive the test is
Most hells angels in the US actually speak like this gentleman. It is a myth that they have grizzled American voices. Many of them attended some of Europe's most prestigious places of learning prior to joining a motorcycle gang.
@@fortunatejeremy I can assure it's true. I myself was considered for the California chapter of the angels but not having attended any ivy league college, I found myself somewhat ostracized. My own fault really.
I’m 19 and I’m still riding a damn sinnis flare 50cc I hate it! I’m too broke to afford a 125cc which I’m qualified to ride because of insurance shoots up in price
Once you put a bureaucrat in charge of solving a problem, you can always expect all kinds of unintended negative consequences, but with very little likelihood of the original problem actually being solved.
It’s a form of discrimination.. if you pass your car driving test at 17 and have a rich daddy you can have a Lamborghini but only a 125cc if you pass your bike test. I’m an instructor and I think it’s absolutely ridiculous the way motorcycle test categories are…as do some of the examiners.
@@Vassle 17 year olds are restricted to 125cc machines if you can find a road legal 125 that is as fast as a Lamborghini send me a photo I'd love to see it. If you can find a 600cc for £500 that will keep up with a Lambo....buy it! You're living in a dream. Plus I said a rich daddy so why would a 17 year old need 100k??
@UCrFA4qZ6M2JudGgvrXbmvlg If you think young kids with super cars doesn't happen because of insurance quotes then you need to do a bit of research. Only last week I saw a 17 year old girl pass her test in an Audi Q5 which was hers and her parents had also covered her £7000 insurance premium. So now think of the people with serious wealth and their kids who would put that girl in the shade. My point is not whether they able to drive high powered cars at 17, or afford them, or can insure them, but that they are permitted to under the licensing laws whereas the same rules do not apply to motorcyclists and is therefore discriminatory.
@@steve5825 2L diesel Q5 is in no way equal to a lambo, on the other hand a 600cc inline 4 is comparable but without seat belts, airbags or crumple zones. Rich or poor you cannot ride a full power bike as a youngster. Indeed there are some kids around with parents with money but they are few and far between. And that brings us back to the first comment; can you imagine every kid with a 125 with a 600 instead? They are the same price second hand!!
@@Vassle there is obviously something not clicking with you, which is fine. Try this one then. I've just had a 22 year old truck driver who is out on the road in a 42 ton wagon but is only allowed to ride a restricted motorcycle until at the age of 24 he is magically considered safe to go to a bigger bike. Does that still somehow make sense to you? My comment has nothing to do with any specific vehicle it is to do with the fact the driving licence laws are discriminatory. As you said 'rich or poor you cannot ride a full power (any bike over 35kw) so that is as I'm trying to get through to yo - discrimination! A 17 year old with a full car licence can, IF they can afford it, drive ANY car whilst a 17 year old motorcyclist has to ride a little 125cc up to 11kw at 19 up to 35kw. I'm guessing you still won't grasp it but nice chatting with you anyway.
I passed my test in 1975 on a BSA B40. I told the examiner it was a 250 and he believed me. I progressed through the bigger capacity bikes, ending up with a Honda 1000. Now I'm back in a 125 because I'm old and crinkly and besides ... It's more fun if you have to ride like you stole it 😉
In my 60s now had a suzuki 250 ts enduro on L plates for 3or 4 years then onto cars trucks now want to start tinkering with old bikes again . CBT every 2 years for up to a 125 cc or spend money to progress up . Not a good system if CBT is road safety and awareness why do you have to take it every to years just to have a 125cc runabout .
@@skiprat63 I think the idea behind the CBT 'trap' is to encourage people to progress onto getting their full licence which does demonstrate their skills have progressed. I rode for a couple of years before doing my CBT, I needed it for full licence test. I think I got given it in around an hour from turning up, the examiner said this is pointless you've passed.
Anybody can just jump on an electric bicycle…no test..the motorbike laws in this country are daft..Boris might be able to relax it all…..lets ask him….he’s done wonders for bicycles..
I took my bike test in the UK back in 1962 on a 200cc Triumph Tiger Cub. For a learners license back then the min age was 16 y/o and max cc was 250cc, no pre training required. For my test, the test guy just stood on a corner and watched while I drove backwards and forwards through the intersection a few times. At one point he jumped out in front of me, luckily I'd been keeping an eye on him and anticipated this move so I didn't run him down. Back then the bike test was infinitely easier than the car test. Two months later I bought a 650cc Triumph Bonneville complete with clip-ons and a tight fibreglass racing fairing. Been riding a Harley now for the last 10 years. Not sure I'd be bothered to go through everything required to get out on two wheels in the UK these days.
I wanted to get into bikes a couple of years ago but the cost was too high for me to justify. Would love a triumph Bonneville or scrambler amazing looking bikes
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Try a good 2nd hand 125 trials and a trailer that will take that scrambler later, off road is a good start point at any age..
@@alanhat5252 Yes they are still available, marketed as "trail bikes" but looking much more like motocross bikes, for people that want to go mad on trails and look different on the road. They all look like Paris Dakkar competitors.
I passed my test about 1960 on a BSA 250 cc. and got a full licence to ride any motorcycle. The test consisted of riding round a block a number of times while the tester stood at one corner so he could see me half of the time. I was told that when he stepped in the road and raised is hand, I should do an emergency stop. I have to admit I was not really a safe rider after that, but after a number of close calls, I wised up and went on to be a good rider for the rest of my life. I had in fact cottoned on to defensive riding without being taught or knowing it had a name. I never had a serious accident, just the usual like coming off on black ice even though I was riding slowly. I don't ride any more, too old to risk broken bones now so I just drive a car.
I did similar to you on a Honda CD175 but around a park it took just over a hour,around in one direction and then the other up and down a hill at walking pace with feet on the footpegs,Hand signals only,Some fools turned on indicator and hand signals and failed for not obeying instructions try to be "clever" was my interpretation,I got a Honda CB350 and that had a booklet of tips concerning engine brake and powerband and i adopted the style in the booklet as did my brother driving his car,All this getting into top gear was abandoned the fuel saving was non existent and the engine brake played a big part and the powerband instant acceleration just by dropping one gear straight into the powerband
@@Johnketes54 I'm not sure you understood the concept of defensive riding. It's about things like anticipating that car driver who did not see you before they drive out in front of you and not putting yourself into potentially dangerous situations. One safety idea I highly recommend is to have your headlamp on dipped beam at all times even in broad daylight. It definitely reduces those unseeing drivers. We grew up with a culture of not doing that because it would shorten the life of the bulb or flatten the battery especially with the old 6V systems. Today's electrics are far superior and there is no good reason not to take this simple safety measure.
This whole pandemic thing has got me interested in bikes and fulfilling a dream I've had for a number of years - it'll be a nice way of avoiding commuter trains. One thing that 'd found was that the licensing was totally confusing and I had no idea what I actually NEEDED to do after my CBT (booked for next weekend) as I'm 29. This video has cleared that up nicely! Thanks a lot!
The best way to reduce road collisions would be to make everyone take a bike test before being allowed to drive a car. That would ensure that all drivers are aware of road and weather conditions and be more considerate to other road users. As for the bike test 16 is ok to start on a bike with limited power output and speed but then progress to any bike after completing training and test. Another highs would be to make the car test much tougher.
It wouldn't make any difference. They'd get back in their cars and instantly forget or they just wouldn't give a toss. The standard of driving these days is abysmal. Everyone is in a rush. No one wants to slow down or give way.
That's certainly another factor. Watch the whole video though, bro, because there's more than one reason it sucks. Assuming someone can afford the extortionate insurance, they still have many hurdles to jump and hoops to go through
In Australia you need to hold a car licence for a year before you can get a bike licence. The idea is that you get used to traffic in a car which is safer and when you get on the bike you can concentrate more on the riding. Apart from that need to do a day course to get your learners and a 2 day one to get your licence up to a 650cc after 2 years you can do another course for your unrestricted.
I like the bit in the Japanese bike test where you have to lay the bike down & stand it up again unassisted, it forces manufacturers away from ridiculous bikes & riders away from bikes they can't handle.
It's simple. Cost. For new riders it costs almost as much to ride a motorcycle as to drive a car. Except it's less practical and most parents won't help out financially for motorcycles. So many young people just can't afford it.
I agree with you. I've said all along you can't ride a big bike but can drive a sports car! Absolutely no sense in it. A car can do a lot more damage than a bike in an accident
Here in Portugal the laws are the following: 50cc at 14, 125cc at 16, A2 at 18 and full A license at 25 or after 3 years of A2 or A1(125cc). This means that if you get your A1 license at 16 you can get your A license has early has 19. You only need to take your written test once, and you only have to take driving lessons for the first time you get a license. After that you only need to do a practical exam if you want to upgrade o a higher license.
I just find it funny that there are so many more steps (at least for young people) to get a full motorcycle licence, yet imagine the uproar if the government made similar rules for car drivers. Cars are bigger, heavier and consume more resources to make and run, yet they’re so much easier to be made legal to get behind the wheel of one.
I live in Indiana USA . You have to be 15 to ride a 50cc bike . Once your 16 you can get your riding permit (written test)and ride anything , but you are restricted to ride during the day with no passenger, and must wear a helmet.After holding the permit for 30 days you can take a riding test and get your license. We have lobbyists for helmet laws and training . The training provided by these groups is affordable and is very beneficial.
MrDarcy & the Ol'Man I will say this though. Once you go through the riding test and get your license you have to pay for that endorsement on your operators license or you lose it . If you lose it you have to start the whole process over.
As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that the magistrates court list is full of kids who just gave up on the crazy system. This means loads are uninsured costing us all money. I'm a biker of 45 years and my son of 29 just cannot find a test center while his CBT is valid.
I rode my first bike in 1976, it's a very different biking world these days. The UK has some of the busiest roads in the world so that makes us a little unique, we also have some of the most narrowest and ancient roads in the world so that also makes us a little unique, so I'm not sure that we can compare ourselves to other countries very easily.
The current complicated system grew up over many years as reactionary drawn out attempt to get young motorcyclists to a point where their maturity and experience meant they would be less likely to be a fatality. I started riding in the 70s, up to 250cc without any tests or training. I came off a few times doing stupid things, lost a friend showing off on a CB250 into a wall. Many years later I found myself flying air ambulance and police helicopters, one of our regular tasks was road traffic collisions, it was clear that the majority of single vehicle fatalities Involved loss of control due to excessive speed for the road conditions and statistically motorcyclists were far more likely to be the fatality. Another observation was that the age of the fatalities was changing, born again motorcyclists, men in their 50s who had survived the 70s and 80s as young riders who gave it up then drove cars, had families etc, decided to take up biking again and could afford something much bigger and more powerful than they'd ever dreamed of but hadn't had the years of near misses and scares that motorcyclists learn from. On more than a few occasions I've been to the scene where the fatality is a rider from the back of a group trying to keep up and taking one risk too many for their experience level.
Motorcycle laws have been crafted to dramatically reduce motorcycle use by making it difficult to obtain a full licence, I expect the same shortly for car driving licences.
I passed my motorbike test in Chile after leaving the UK aged 20. I've drove the Dakar, numerous times around Latin America... and apparently after 20 years riding when I go back to the UK... That all means nothing and I have to re take my exam and everything. Truly bizarre
@@MrDarcy-OlMan I know, truly amazing. Funny thing is that legally I can ride ANY bike in the UK for the first 12 months using my license I got here... Then I just suddenly forget everything and the CBT will "remind me" how the ride. 🙄
I remember these days. I got my A2 at 19. Upgraded to an A at 21 after 2 years, frustrating at the time But I personally think the 2 years of hootling around on a bandit helped me a lot on the r1 now.
I'm 19 and I simply can't afford to spend £700-£800 on A2, and then £2000 on a decent motorcycle and again £2000 on insurance, that's why I don't drive even though I would really like to.
@@MrDarcy-OlMan If the government in th UK want's the next generation of people to be contributing members of society their going to have to ease up on the licensing laws that's not opinion that's fact because with the UK having such restrictive licensing laws businesses an the economy are eventually going to start suffering as a result
Have been having a similar discussion with a friend of mine, had a 125 when I was 17 soon after passed my driving test and bikes went by the wayside. I'm now 29 and will be getting a pair of vintage bikes that have gone down through the family. My friend is slightly older than me and did direct access and went straight into big bikes and doesn't see why I still want something smaller for a few years to get the gist of thinks even through direct access! Just because I can have an 1100 doesn't mean it should be my first bike!
I'm now in that situation where I've taken my A2 and am riding a restricted 600. What makes little sense is that in two years when I'll have 3 years experience, 2 of those on a 600, I'll have to spend a grand on the same tests again just to ride my bike without the restrictor. To me the solution is to have the restriction categories in place but have the licence automatically upgrade a to A after two years. Or perhaps require a CBT style training course, but not the same test on the same bike I just took but with a throttle stop removed that I never went past the whole test anyway.
Yet you see people on electric bicycles and scooters who have never done any test whatsoever all over roads and pavements in any major city jumping lights ignoring one way streets carrying passengers not having lights wearing actual camouflage the violations are endless…. So why would someone wanting cheap mobility actually pay out for training or tests when they can ignore it all
The problem with the tests are they are super expensive, especially if you are hiring the bike in the usual way. I would agree with starting at 14 for 50cc, I also agree with doing the test once, but what I would suggest is like they do on the continent, make it so everyone is A2 for 2 years and then they get automatically upgraded to full A. That way you get the safety and progression without the expense. The main issue is the cost of multiple tests, at a time of your life when you are generally poorest.
I offered to pay for both of my son's, bikes were always around. It wasn't the cost, it was the palaver, a convoluted mess to them so they got cars. We keep kids from being adults too long, that is not good.
About the 50cc, mine at 16 did 45mph, it was viable transport. I very much doubt a kid near me would be interested in a 30mph 50cc when they are already racing around on faster leccy bikes!😁
This is just typical of the UK. Been riding for 55 years and I have absolutely no idea of what these two guys are talking about, you couldn't make this bullshit up. All I had to do was ride a 250cc around the block a few times, read a car number plate and do an emergency stop. That was it, next bike a T120 and have progressed onwards from there. Still ride.
Passing my test in 1975 on a Suzuki GT250, involved riding around the block of the test centre one way, then the other, with the examiner on foot. All over in 10 mins.
@@fabianmckenna8197 no hill start test on my 70's test as there were no hills lol , tester never jumped out on me , just held up his clipboard while he was stood on the pavement , I only went round the block once I dont think he even bothered watching untill I arrived back lol
My view here is that the UK gov have never liked motorcycles or motorcyclists and therefore have made this whole licensing process as complex as possible to deter would be new riders. With the current focus on climate change they have missed a big opportunity, over a number of decades, to include motorcycles as part of a joined up transport policy. What they should have been doing is encouraging people to ride motorcycles and scooters to ease traffic congestion and pollution levels. Instead we have a road tax charging structure which also contributes to deterring new be riders due to the costs and an overly complex licence process which you need an a level to navigate. I have been a motorcyclist for 35+ years and my eldest son was keen to start riding but the whole complexity of the licence process put him off and he went straight to a car. Maybe the new electric bikes coming onto the market will give the gov an opportunity to change their misguided licensing process but then again Boris’ lot are not that bright sadly…..keep up the great work with the vids guys…
@@MrDarcy-OlMan You are right about green Boris. The HS2 for all its Billions. Will get you from London to Manchester 20 minutes earlier giving you 20 more minutes to wait for a cab for your onward journey.
I am so glad I passed my test 32 years ago. 50cc to start, 250 on L plates, test, and then 250 till I was ready, then a 750 Suzuki! That said lost quiet a few mates back then. So with hindsight surely better to progress in steady jumps, but don’t complicate things with power to weight ratios, kw’s and stuff that’s just ridiculous.
Indeed, and sorry to hear about your mates. I genuinely don’t think we should have the system we do, however; it should go back to what it was, but there definitely should be progression, but that should be the expected thing in the bike community, but rather people get too tempted by expert riders carving it up and want to do the same.
I personally believe it should be the same as a car. You get a theory and practical test at 17 and are then allowed to ride any bike. I think the cost of insurance would stop any young person from picking up a 600 or 1000cc. Heck, for me It's £1,400 for insurance for my 125cc and I'm 23. I do however think that you should be allowed a 50cc at 14. The whole idea that people will be constantly upgrading bikes as they get the more advanced licenses is just unrealistic due to financial reasons. I will stay with my Hoodlum (which I bought thanks to your video on the bike) until I do my full unrestricted license. But by that point, many people would have just purchased a car.
Brilliant review covering an over complex system. I may get shot down for this but IMO all these separate licences age ranges tests etc are to generate more revenue for the chancellor. I have been both a motorcycle and car instructor The bureaucracy is ridiculous. Once you've passed that's it. No extra checks or advice on advanced riding. I've been out the game for 15 years but believe its still a case of making it as difficult and costly to pass the test but once done government interest in our safety and riding standards cease. Like exorbitant road tax for bikers its just a money making machine. Solution. Everyone should spend 2 years riding a bike before they can regress (lol) to a car. Bring age down to 15 and increase to 125 category. 50cc is bloody dangerous! Stay safe
Pike Bobstar Gosh very good points Pike!!! Actually thinking about it, I think you’re right about the 50cc, they are dangerously slow in many situations and 125’s are not nearly as punchy as they used to be.
I completely agree with what your saying! I'm 17 and I'd love to get a 125, but I have to pass my car test first. Cant wait to get a motorbike, I'm considering the Sunnis hoodlum 125, the suzuki marauder 125, the lexmoto Michigan 125 or the keeway superlight 125. Nice video guys!
I'm considerably past the 'young person' category, but I can confirm, having begun motorbike training a couple of years ago, that the process of getting a bike licence in the UK is considerably harder and more confusing than getting a car licence.
And conversely, while it is easier to get a car licence, once you pass, its even easier for new passes to buy a 3 litre supercharged V8 and go on the motorway... While motorcyclists like ourselves have to jump through hoops 🤷♂️
When I passed my bike test it was just a bloke standing on a street corner with a clipboard. Ride past him 3 times without falling off and you're good to ride anything on 2 wheels. I can see why something more stringent was needed, but they have gone waaay too far. My whole 20s were spent on big bikes, a lifestyle that has been legislated out of existance. UK is not a free country at all, whatever they tell you.
I didn't bother taking my test until I was 26 in 1976, it was simple, Borrow a 250cc, take the test, give the bike back, buy what you liked, job done no confusion, what you describe is government lunacy.
Absolutely. These days the costs of all the training and testing (not to mention the usurous cost of insurance) make it ever harder for kids to start on bikes. Maybe that's the point of the legislation? If that sounds like a conspiracy to keep kids off the road on bikes, maybe that's better than the alternative? I started on a 125 Honda because I had no money. The 125 was dirt cheap transport. I bought fuel (over 100 MPG when thrashed) oil, taught myself to check tappets and ignition and clean out the oil filter, bought tyres (sometimes used rears) chains, put 72K miles on it and did nothing else. It was cheap transport: freedom if you like. Passed the test on the 125 and then graduated to bigger things as I could. Couldn't do that now. The bikes were always bought dirt cheap as non-runners and rebuilt, so the progression was slow. I could have got finance when I got a job and bought faster progression to something 'cool', but I chose not to. My choice, not dictated by having to buy a cheap car by the prohibitive cost of hoop jumping. Shutting up now.
@@anemonemechanics3175I was brought up with the spanner and screwdriver in my hands learning before i got my first motorbike on the road... as my father says: in a car the metal is wrapped around your ass. on a bike your ass is wrapped around the metal. make sure you protect that metal well and make sure you know every nut and bolt will keep your ass off the tarmac.
The difference being that a 20 year old couldn't get their Ferrari on the road as either no company would insure them or the cost would make it impractical. A powerful secondhand bike with a low value would cost next to nothing to insure. Just a thought. I was an idiot that did it all the wrong way. I went from a 125 lt to a 1200 VMax then a Blackbird - a Hayabusa - a 2.3 lt Rocket and now a 2.5lt Rocket. I was lucky that fear and the wisdom that I was not bulletproof kept me calm and alive. I worry that if I was eighteen, with less life experience -I would have ridden VERY differently...
Jet Cooper Very good points. Should the gov be the nanny state though, for the small minority that cant be sensible? I was a boy racer but always had enough fear and respect to stay within the limits of my skills and vehicles ability 👍🏼
Surely the stupid bike licensing and training process in the uk must actually be costing motorbike manufacturers loads of money ? because many people young and old even if they have always dreamt of owning and riding a motorbike are simply looking at whats involved and saying nah dont think il bother its just too much hassle ? not being funny but if the law states that they are happy for you tp ride a motorbike on the main road in heavy traffic after just 4 - 6 hrs tuition for a cbt then whats the problem ? the law is saying YOUR ABLE TO RIDE A MOTORBIKE. all the other things such as riding more powerful bikes simply comes with time and experience.just like driving a ford fiesta and then jumping into a 200mph ferrari yet as already stated on here the government are happy for new drivers to do that ? none of it makes any sense its like if you want to be a biker you will be pinalised for it. im 50 next year and have always wanted to have a motorbike and am seriously considering doing all the test but some days im like but why ? cbt they are happy you have proven your safe enuf to ride a motorbike. but then id also have mod 1 and then also mod 2 and not forgetting the theory test which i already did and passed for my full car licence. its just alot of hassle and simply a money racket.
Really good points there buddy. Yes it definitely costs manufacturers sales and also is the reason that now, second hand bikes are rare and expensive. 30 years ago you could pick up a used bike for peanuts
Malaysia with a population of 32 million has 15.2 million registered motorbikes and scooters. Uk with a population of 67.22 million has just 1.27 million. How many dealerships, garages, mechanics don't exist, or are in danger of going out of business because of this myopic strategy? Speaking of safety, the youngest RAF cadet to fly solo and earn RAF wings was just 14 years old. You can fly a plane but can't ride a motorbike at that age!. And there are paramedics driving ambulances at just 19. Statistically, horse riding is more dangerous than motorcycling but there is no licensing requirement to ride a horse on a public highway. Safety standards are double standards folks and motorcycling is dying in the UK.
@@tchan279 Well said. I think that’s the best comment we’ve had on this video. Thanks buddy. Really puts it into perspective. I sold one of my cars a few years back, and the chap came by helicopter, flown by his 18 year old son, who couldn’t ride a motorcycle with a full license! Need I say more
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Thank you for doing such a great service via this channel. Objective truth is important and provides clarity. This bureaucratic micromanaging of virtually everything in the UK is destroying productivity and our economy. "You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing" - Thomas Sowell.
@@MrDarcy-OlMan UN/WEF - no Petrol or Diesel Vehicles by 2035 and no privately owned Electric Vehicles by 2045. You will own NOTHING and you will go NOWHERE and be Happy. So you will have to live within walking distance of a train or bus station - never take anything you can't carry, never visit anybody not on the timetabled routes and only travel at time tabled times. Lockdown of human race on the nearing horizon - C0NV!D$CAM was just a litmus paper test for their end goal.
I think an ideal scenario would be a 125 from 16-18 and forget about 50cc. They're too slow for the roads, hard to find and expensive. Make kids do their CBT at 16, then go back for the test at 18, to allow them access to bigger machines. Could always put a power restriction in place for the first 2 years of the license. I think that part should apply to everyone anyway.
This seems like discrimination against motorcyclists. In the UK, a 17 year old can pass a car driving test and then drive any car, regardless of the car's power output. Why should motorcyclists have to take three tests? And given the current massive interest in cleaner transport, bikes like the Honda CB125F can do over 140mpg! The government should be encouraging people of all ages to ride motorcycles. Bikes can be more fuel efficient, cheaper to run, cause less traffic congestion, and use less parking space. Also, bikers are more alert than many car drivers, they aren't playing with an infotainment system or texting It's time for a review of the current legislation.
Asked my friend who lives in the UK about this once and he just gave up trying to explain it. As an American I just took the state sponsored course and had my bike license (M) at the end of it ,my first bike is a 500cc. I appreciate the explanation though. While I think 500cc isn’t too bad it do believe we should have atleast 2 classes for ours because a lot of younger people just go straight for the high power ones and end up in a hospital bed.
Completely agree, you could even make it hours/miles based like for flight training. Start on a 125 when your 16, when your 18 you can go up to a 400 but only if you've had X amount of hours/miles, same again at 21 you can go up to a 800 but only if you've had x amount of hours/miles on the 400. This would stop people from riding a 125 for 4 years and then switching straight to a fireblade and killing themselves, especially if they've owned the 125 but it's sat in the yard 99% of the time. Edit: Or, start on a 125, when your 18 OR when you've hit your hours/miles you can go up, so even if you're 17 but you have X hours experience you can jump to the 400. Older does not mean more experienced or skilled, more experienced and skilled means more experienced and skilled. If they wanna be really strict they could have you be required to do a ride with an instructor each time you jump levels, as long as you're not seriously dangerous then they can just give you advice on your riding and tell you what needs improving. If you are seriously dangerous you get x hours mandatory training and a retest before you can ride again. I'm not against licenses at all really (even though they don't really stop idiots from driving tbh), but they should make sense.
I passed my test in 1969 on a 200cc Triumph. I agree that there needs to be a progression, but it seems to me that Government policy is to discourage motorcycling, rather than just trying to make it safer. On returning to motorcycling in 2016 after a 27 year break I deliberately bought a 500cc Royal Enfield as being something within my competence, only too aware that at 67 my reactions are a lot slower than they used to be. Sadly, common sense seems to be absent among some bikers. It is well worth taking further training.
On my 16th birthday I got my provisional license, bought a brand new 250cc bike a couple of days later, never looked back, still an all weather speed freak rider at 73, have not fallen off yet (on road) trials and motocross is another story....the system is just a rubbish money maker.
I’m glad I did my license before it all went mad, I had a125 until 21 then did my direct access. Once passed a weeks course I used my own common sense to progress up in cc an power (500 twin, 600 four, 750 and then 1000), this is my 15 year of riding full power and still loving it... nothing wrong with the old system, it’s just another way of our government nannying us, a 17 year old in a 20 year old Corsa can be a lot more dangerous then a 21 year old on a 500cc...
Madness. I did my CBT at 16 and rode a Yamaha Fizzy for a year, upgraded to a TZR125 (god what a wonderful bike) and then did my test at 18 to get my full A licence. Got a ZZR250 and at about 27 a Yamaha 600cc Thundercat. What madness for my son when he’s older.
All car licences should be issued on the proviso that the person has ridden a 50cc for at least 1000 miles. This would familiarise more road users to the dangers of biking. After that the licencee can choose car or bike. For a bike they move up a 2 tier scale which improves on training and experience. Training should be cheaper and more accessible providing jobs and promoting fun and safety. Roughly.
I grew up in Italy, and had a moped at age 14. At the time (1970s) no licence was needed, no helmet, no number plate, insurance: road tax being 14 were the only requirements. 16 was the age when I could ride a bike up to 125cc: for this I had to take a test consisting of a multiple choice paper: no riding test. At 18 I could ride a motorcycle of any capacity on the test I took for the 125. Compulsory helmets were introduced when I was 26... My licence is still valid, if fact I have exchanged it for a UK licence and it will expire when I turn 70.
36 and moved to UK very recently. Thought about getting into bikes, and I'm extremely confused by the system - everywhere the explanation is for the age grades, but nothing properly explains what to do if you're no longer 17-19-24. Some places have wording like "of you have a full car driver's license" and never properly explain what advantages that gives. Took me a while to realise I can just do a CBT and ride a 125cc without bothering with anything else really. Still hadn't done that, but now I think about all those delivery people on bikes with L plates - these guys didn't even have to do a road rules test if I'm correct...
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Yeah, with all the complexity I would expect UK to at least require a theory test as well or at least the basic road sign, markings and basic traffic code test. Mind boggling for me that you can go on public roads without that. Back in Ukraine you don't touch any vehicle outside of training grounds unless you pass a theory test which includes basic understanding of how the vehicle operates mechanically, full road code (which includes vehicles you're not taking the test for), first medical aid, some legal responsibility. Then again, UK says I can only directly exchange my full Ukrainian B license to UK B automatic, so 13 years of experience on a manual don't count, because "Ukrainian tests aren't as strict, if you want full license - pay for the test here" Wow. On the scale of one to even - I just can't. XD
For me the whole problem started when the 50cc law came out, prior you could ride up to 250 or any capacity chair outfit on L plates they changed the law and bought in the 50cc thinking that would calm the speeds down the fissi came out of Japan and was a 85mph 50cc. So since then it's got so restrictive it's just a joke the cost of changing bikes is ridiculous. That said I'm old enough to have a car licence with A on it so I could buy just the one bike that said I started on a 650 matchless chair outfit but went through piles of 250,s from a BSA C11, Honda CB , Royal Enfield, GT Continental too an OSSA MAR trials.(which now sell for thousands I paid £300)
85 on a fizzy, a claim my mates used to make... never saw it myself, 60 down hill was more realistic, hankered after my friend's Gilera 50, sexy bike. Honda H100 was the star for me... two up it would do 65 all day long with a cloud of blue smoke! I don't understand the retro scene for little 50s? A friend restores fizzies and other small bikes, he says it's nostalgic? He also didn't take his bike test until 10 years ago so I doubt he every rode a bike as a teen? More and more... "never ridden a bike" newbies taking their tests later in life and then buying the biggest machine they can! The "born again biker" has been overtaken by this new group. A lot of purchases this year with small business COVID payments? Harley forums are full of "just passed my test and collecting new Roadking next week" FFS that isn't a starter bike, will be interested to see the accident stats... for a long time the 16-21 has been the safest with us crusties topping the chart!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Crap old bikes are fetching good money, rubbish the first time around but the knock on effect pushes the prices up. It's cheaper to buy an old pre 65 as the demand drops for them.... old boys dying off.
So you could pass your bike test at age 16 back in the day and then not ride for say 40 years. You could then buy a bike capable of almost 200mph and be legally allowed to ride it right away with no other test needed. Silly really but true!
Here in Portugal you have 4 licenses: AM, A1, A2 and A. AM: up to 50cc and can't exceed 45Km/h. You can have it at minimum age of 14 years old as a "special license" with a 15 hour formation (8 pratical hours and 7 theorotical hours) + the exams. At minimum age of 16 years old as a "normal" license + exams and guess what... minimum 25 years old with the B driver's license! A1, A2 and A are pretty much the same as in England. But still, I can't understand this restrictions. I took my driver's licence with 19 years old and I can drive a Citroen AX with 45 horsepower or a Bugatti Veyron with 1001 horsepower.
Need to get everyone together and protest in public loud and clear. And also protest any politician against against a one or two stage license like we have here. In Illinois you test on bike of your choice, either below 350cc or above 350cc. But you need to pass the riding test. I chose to test ride on a 450cc which qualifies me for anything larger. Over the years, I have found riding a big heavy bike was a lot safer than a small bike, just by pure wind factor. Hardly would like riding a small motorcycle on the expressway. You tend to get blown all over the place behind or on the side of a semi-tractor trailer. It sounds like the ones that made the laws in the UK are really not serious riders, and don't know what they are talking about.
Pretty well much anti motorcycle as far back as i can remember,Young people got killed so put in loads of complicated rules to deter riding a motorcycle
gov't shouldn't be in the business of telling you what cc bike you can have. show your basic ability, and you should get a license at 16 or so. that's the way they do it in the USA, and it works. parents restrict the kids that need it, not govt.
It doesn't though you lot drop 1000cc bikes and claim sh#t happens practically no one would drop a 400cc or bigger because to get to that size we took a test and everything is so expensive
I thought that a 18 you were an adult, what happens at 21? And why 24? I passed my test at 16 plus one week. Passed and was able to ride what I wanted, for the rest of my life. This whole farce is to just stop anybody having a bike at all.
I'm grateful i got into bikes when i was 27. Didn't need to bother with all the silly progressive licensing. Don't blame young people not wanting to spend so much money to have a restricted bike. Then they get bored of it and buy a car then never bother with a bike again
At the age of 16 years my daughter took her 2 day $125 motorcycle test course and was legally permitted to ride anything she wanted to the very next day, Just last month a 20 year old fried who had no experience completed his licensing certification in the parking lot of a local Harley dealership and was immediately sold a Heritage Custom ,,,, welcome to Florida
I always thought it was stupid to take a test on a bike you can't ride you should take a test on a 125 that lets you ride a 400 or 600 then take a test on that bike that allows you to ride something bigger that way it's a natural progression on a bike you can ride or allready own
Very rarely do I find that a person buys a large motorcycle right away. They mostly have a progression as they move up to heavier motorcycles. I went 350, 400, 900, 1200, 1500cc over the course of years.
It would seem to be more concern for the government to tackle higher items of death like, drugs, crime, and murders where the body count is really much higher. Having the license complexity they have really hits the motorcycle industry hard. There would be a lot more riders and a lot more business activity if they would simplify the license process. It helps in job creation by selling more motorcycles.
@@skitzdaniel3314 I think the death rate would go up,The evidence is on TH-cam with American riders who fall off and accept it as ok,Here in the UK that would be exceedingly embarrassing
I’m 17 tomorrow and I’m just riding a yz 125 in fields and tracks and it’s frustrating because my yz 125 has more power than pretty much all road bike 125s in terms of power to weight (33horsepower to around 90 kilo) so I have experience on a fast bike, yet I have to wait years until I can get a bike on the road with a similar power to weight
Yes that sucks! A street legal 125 is way down on the power your used to. The law is an ass, designed for the stupid and to protect us from ourselves. Nanny State
Japan has somewhat similar licensing laws for bikes, and the top licence is frankly stupid - which is why less big bikes are sold there and where the 400cc bikes all come from. France does let you ride a 50cc moped at 14, but I believe it has to be a pedal start one (that may have changed, it's been years since I looked). Apart from the licensing laws, one of the other big problems young riders face is insurance and storage - we all know bikes left outside are very easy to steal by two blokes and a transit. The current pricing insanity for renting or owning property, especially property with a garage or secure parking, means that the entry point to biking is made even harder.
Wow! That is incredible. How in the Hell can they come up with something as intrusive and complicated as that. I can only imagine the bureaucracy behind this. The day that I turned 16, 1971, I was at the local drivers licence office at eight o'clock in the morning with my dad's car and my motorcycle. I had purchased a Honda SL125 three months earlier and had already spent hundreds of hours, mostly in the dirt but many illegally on country back roads, in the saddle. Socialist Illinois, where I grew up, had a two tiered system of licensing motorcycles. Until a rider turned 18, they were restricted to bikes 150cc, or less. These bikes were classified as "Motor Driven Cycles" and were legal on all public roads except interstates. To this day, there are still signs on Illinois interstate on-ramps declaring this law. There was no special markings on the bike's license plate but, if I remember correctly, there was a different class marked on the drivers license. When a rider turned 18 they upgraded the license and the rider could, legally, ride any motorcycle. I bought a Honda CB450 as soon as I could and rode it for the next couple of years. I have owned over thirty bikes since. I, currently, keep five licensed and insured. This was a very interesting video. Thanks.
Because of this mentality this is the reason: I keep on reading comments on most bike related. Why do I always see the word “BEGINNER MOTORCYCLE” there is no such thing…It’s a small displacement and a high displacement. Let’s say I’m a learner on a car or newly licensed driver this this means I need to buy a mini then eventually drive a VAN as I progress and a trailer truck when I’m on my 50s… this is the mindset on bikes. It doesn’t matter if it’s a small bike or a big bike it’s still go a kill you if you’re doing stupid stuff!
We hebben in Duitsland zo als in de Nederlanden deze 4 Categorien maar een 15-jarige kan een 25 kmh brommfiets rijbewijs maken. Dat zijn 5 Categorien in Duitsland😅
I'm 49 and looking at getting a bike and to be honest the entire licensing system for bikes in the UK seems designed to rake in cash and nothing more. Its a racket.
I think the solution is to keep the CBT to allow youngsters to get on the road but then have a week long course including a one test which allows you to ride anything. You could still have age appropriate or riding progression incorporated into it, but not as part of the stupid and numerous A ratings the driving licence has. As someone who's only rode mopeds in my youth, what's the best way to get on the road with motorcycles at 50?
@ Buggerlugz It sure is! Jobsworth examiners and their overlords don't care about the motorcycling sector's contribution to the wider economy and job creation etc. Their modus operandi is to always cite a few accidents as though that is the true representation of all the motorcyclists in the UK. Instead of penalising bad motorists through better enforcement of sensible traffic rules, they treat every motorcycle licence applicant as though they want to kill themselves. There is no transparency and accountabillity with these tests and one is completely at the mercy of the examiner's opinion of your riding. You can't train for the examiner's opinion. Period. How difficult is it for DVSA to equip their examiners with a body cam to make the process transparent? Saving lives...Just look at the Covid 19 mismanagement and excess deaths as a result ( Hundreds of thousands and counting). Do you know the biggest cause of young men dying in the UK? Mental health issues and suicide. 12 a week and the numbers are rising as per ONS. And they'd have us believe that they are trying to save lives. CAGED ANIMALS ARE SAFE BUT IT'S NOT MUCH OF A LIFE FOLKS!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Couldn't agree more! Root and branch reform will only happen when the economy completely collapses and we are sleepwaking towards that abyss as a nation. Just look at the state of SMEs all over the UK and the tax burden. Completely unsustainable.
So glad I did my test way back in 1979. Any bike upto 250 on L plates and then take test for full licence. Also no time limit on how long you could hold a learners licence. To me it seemed that system worked pretty well, never understood why they felt there was a need to change it.
All about the ££££££ Bob. Cars use more fuel than bikes. Governments could never see beyond petrol tax revenue so we’re all forced into cars and sitting in the congestion they cause.
I started as a learner with a 250 cc new bike,..passed my test got a 500 cc then a 750 cc in 1980 ..I've had bikes all my life I now ride a Ducati Streetfighter 1098 from new and now planning to buy a BMW S1000XR. The law is stupid, because UK is run by stupid politicians. The old way was far better. 😊👍👍🇬🇧
All good points. Personally I did my A1 in my 50s. It is purely for for fun and the odd comute, so no wish to go bigger.. Main reason was no lessons needed and I had a 125. Bit old for L PILATES and I do sometimes take my 11 year old for a short fun ride around the block. However I realise this is unusual and think that after 2 years accident free, the law/insurance should allow you to progress, without retaking all the same test
I think that modern society in general has a problem with motorcycles. It doesn't want them. They are viewed as anti social, dangerous and an inconvenience to other road users. They get in the way of 'decent ' people trying to go about their lives. Hence the legal complexity in obtain a licence that puts off the young from bothering. Motorcycles, like bicycles, are not wanted on the roads. A great shame as, in reality, they both provide a viable solution to congestion in cities. Also, we now have a society that demands comfort and ease. Back in the seventies (when I got my first motorcycle) a 16 year old male was considered odd if he DIDN'T want a motorbike. Not so now. Too cold ,too wet, too dangerous. Personal lease contracts make it so easy for mum and dad to get the youngster a brand new car for their 17th birthday. I, and my contemporaries, have had the best of it. Personally, 54 motorcycles in 45 years have given me great times, lots of fun and lots of soakings and still more to come 😄
Here in Canada at 16 you can get your learners license to drive any size as long as you ride with a licensed rider….no time limit and you can take your road test any time you feel confident in doing so. I passed my learners first time at 30 dollars….1 year later took my road test and passed at 140 dollars. Now I have it for life.
CBT - 16yo+ - up to 125cc (50cc for 16yo) with power and power:weight limits - L plates - No passengers or motorway use - Must be repeated every two years. AM Licence - 16yo+ - up to 50cc with power and power:weight limits - No L plates. A1 licence - 17yo+ - up to 125cc with power and power:weight limits - No L plates. A2 licence - 19yo+ - no capacity limit with power and power:weight limits - No L plates. A licence - 24yo+ direct access or two years after passing A2 (so minimum of 21yo) - No capacity, power or power:weight limits - No L plates.
I still can't understand how, if you (or your parents) are rich enough, you can pass your driving test at 17 yrs old and get into a Bugatti Chiron to test out it's 1,500hp but only ride a 125cc bike on a bike licence!?
I rode a 125 Varadero from the Age of 17 until I was 24 and did my full licence. During these years I used to be quite vocal about how unfair that, even though I had much more riding experience, I was limited due to my age. On principle I wasn't going to pay twice for tests/training/bike hire. I often praised the older system of a 33bhp restriction for 2 years after passing your test no matter your age (minimum age 19). That said when I turned 24, and jumped on the 70+ bhp bandit which my trainer provided, I realised two things. First my 'slightly' less responsible younger self would have probably pushed it too far if given a bigger bike back then . Second it is also irresponsible to allow anyone whom hasn't built up respect for how quickly things can go wrong on any bike, let alone a 'big bike', to do the same. As a result I believe the old test but brought in at a minimum age of 21 would be a good middle ground. It would allow access to younger riders earlier but also allow riders of all ages the ability to learn respect for bikes before having access to all the fun.
I don’t think so. The license is an issue, but the main reason is money and status. Bikes are getting expensive and don’t have the attraction of heaters and weather protection. Time was, you bought a bike because you couldn’t afford a car. Nowadays, the insurance difference isn’t great, that tax is very little comparatively and the upfront cost of a bike is too high. Second hand bike for £2000, insurance for £500 and tax at £20 or whatever it is these days. Secondhand car £500, insurance £2000 and tax at £50 for economical 1.0. I’d pay £30 extra at 17 to have 4 mates, all of us dry and warm and more protection in an accident. As would most parents.
That may well be the case for a lot of people. Flip side to that is that wannabe Lewis Hamilton in his first car with 3 mates can wipe them all out. This happened to a friend of mine many years ago (fortunately nobody seriously hurt but a terrible crash on a bend for showing off his driving prowess
There's plenty of usable bikes out there for under a grand. Got my scooter for £700 and it has cost me essentially nothing on top of that. You must be looking at mint 5-10 year old bikes with low mileage
Minority groups are always shafted when it comes to the making of laws. I have a laugh when I reflect back 57 years on my initial licence test. At 17 I did a verbal exam to obtain the L's and after 3 months I went for my full licence at the local cop shop. The examining officer instructed me to go and get the right change so I could pay the fee and on return and handing over the payment, he gave me my licence. "What about the test?" I said. "You got there and back so you must know how to ride". 57 years and 20 machines later, I am yet (touch wood) to have an accident. Out of interest I did an advanced riding training course in my 40's and was amazed how much I learnt - e.g. counter steering. The experience made me reflect that it would have been better had I had to take something like that for my first licence. We all pay a huge penalty for the relatively few daredevils amongst us who disregard their own and others' safety - which results in the ridiculous licencing regime that now applies.
I learned to ride in Singapore. The system is a little bit simpler but much much more bureaucratic. Start at 18 yrs old you can start to learn on a bike up to 200cc, ONLY IN AN ENCLOSED LEARNING CENTRE, a series of about 25 practical riding lessons and the various theory lessons and tests similar to the UK. After passing you ride only up to 200cc for 1 year before you can take the next test on a bike up to 400cc. After passing you ride only up to 400cc for 1 year before you can take the next test on an unlimited cc bike, (usually around 700cc).
A CBT is just basic instruction for starting the learning process. A CBT makes you a learner, nothing more. It should be a route to a full licence which is easily achievable in two years. You should be more encouraged to train after the CBT. Training for a full licence makes you a much safer and competent rider and lasts a lifetime. BUT we do need the route to a full licence to be cheaper & simpler.
![ค้างคืนโรงเก็บกระสวยอวกาศร้างกลางทะเลทราย [Around The World Ep. 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5bWZQhABJE/mqdefault.jpg)
I am British but grew up in France, and the laws over there are very different, the equivalent of a theory test called AM license is actually included in our education at 14 at the start of summer holidays the school will do a couple hours teaching road safety then do the theory test which is really easy but everyone does it and it teaches everyone road laws and safety, then you can do a quick test which is very cheap then you can ride a 50cc at 14, when you get to 16 you can apply to do a AM2 license which is fairly simple theory test then a cheap regular road test, after you pass you can ride any from from 50cc to 125cc, when you are 18 you can then do a full license and ride any motorbike of your choosing and it's all quite cheap and because it's cheap majority of 14 or 15 year Olds get a 50cc 2 stroke, absolutely rail the engine and make it able to go 60mph to 70mph, then when they get to 16 or some even keep that 50cc bike till they are 18 then do a full test, to upgrade and they are all experienced and such.
It just shows you how the UK take everything to a whole different level. Now we have left the EU, things are getting much worse.
I raced motocross for 5 years and had a 250 for a little bit but as a 17 year old going for my full license I can only go up to 125cc, can't complain and idc about the L plates but bikes are so expensive and the government want me to buy new bikes every single time I age 2 years, and not to mention how expensive the test is
I love the fact this guy looks like he should talk like a character from sons of anarchy but he is actually a well spoken English gent.
Thanks buddy 👍🏼
Most hells angels in the US actually speak like this gentleman. It is a myth that they have grizzled American voices. Many of them attended some of Europe's most prestigious places of learning prior to joining a motorcycle gang.
@@JohnSmith-ki9tq Um....sure buddy.
@@fortunatejeremy I can assure it's true. I myself was considered for the California chapter of the angels but not having attended any ivy league college, I found myself somewhat ostracized. My own fault really.
14 - 50cc. 16 - 125cc. 18 - You’re an adult and can do what you want.
Spot on Mr Obama!
Ya still a kid at 18 man ! 🤣 21 should be the age ya can get any bike you want any size
I’m 19 and I’m still riding a damn sinnis flare 50cc I hate it! I’m too broke to afford a 125cc which I’m qualified to ride because of insurance shoots up in price
I think 14 is too young
@shaggy hes saying that's how he thinks it should be.
Once you put a bureaucrat in charge of solving a problem, you can always expect all kinds of unintended negative consequences, but with very little likelihood of the original problem actually being solved.
It’s a form of discrimination.. if you pass your car driving test at 17 and have a rich daddy you can have a Lamborghini but only a 125cc if you pass your bike test. I’m an instructor and I think it’s absolutely ridiculous the way motorcycle test categories are…as do some of the examiners.
Very true, interesting to hear your points. Especially from an instructor!
@@Vassle 17 year olds are restricted to 125cc machines if you can find a road legal 125 that is as fast as a Lamborghini send me a photo I'd love to see it. If you can find a 600cc for £500 that will keep up with a Lambo....buy it! You're living in a dream. Plus I said a rich daddy so why would a 17 year old need 100k??
@UCrFA4qZ6M2JudGgvrXbmvlg If you think young kids with super cars doesn't happen because of insurance quotes then you need to do a bit of research. Only last week I saw a 17 year old girl pass her test in an Audi Q5 which was hers and her parents had also covered her £7000 insurance premium. So now think of the people with serious wealth and their kids who would put that girl in the shade. My point is not whether they able to drive high powered cars at 17, or afford them, or can insure them, but that they are permitted to under the licensing laws whereas the same rules do not apply to motorcyclists and is therefore discriminatory.
@@steve5825 2L diesel Q5 is in no way equal to a lambo, on the other hand a 600cc inline 4 is comparable but without seat belts, airbags or crumple zones. Rich or poor you cannot ride a full power bike as a youngster. Indeed there are some kids around with parents with money but they are few and far between. And that brings us back to the first comment; can you imagine every kid with a 125 with a 600 instead? They are the same price second hand!!
@@Vassle there is obviously something not clicking with you, which is fine. Try this one then. I've just had a 22 year old truck driver who is out on the road in a 42 ton wagon but is only allowed to ride a restricted motorcycle until at the age of 24 he is magically considered safe to go to a bigger bike. Does that still somehow make sense to you?
My comment has nothing to do with any specific vehicle it is to do with the fact the driving licence laws are discriminatory. As you said 'rich or poor you cannot ride a full power (any bike over 35kw) so that is as I'm trying to get through to yo - discrimination!
A 17 year old with a full car licence can, IF they can afford it, drive ANY car whilst a 17 year old motorcyclist has to ride a little 125cc up to 11kw at 19 up to 35kw. I'm guessing you still won't grasp it but nice chatting with you anyway.
I passed my test in 1975 on a BSA B40. I told the examiner it was a 250 and he believed me. I progressed through the bigger capacity bikes, ending up with a Honda 1000. Now I'm back in a 125 because I'm old and crinkly and besides ... It's more fun if you have to ride like you stole it 😉
I went from larger capacity bikes to a Grom and it was the most fun I've had on two weeks in years!
In my 60s now had a suzuki 250 ts enduro on L plates for 3or 4 years then onto cars trucks now want to start tinkering with old bikes again . CBT every 2 years for up to a 125 cc or spend money to progress up . Not a good system if CBT is road safety and awareness why do you have to take it every to years just to have a 125cc runabout .
@@skiprat63 I think the idea behind the CBT 'trap' is to encourage people to progress onto getting their full licence which does demonstrate their skills have progressed. I rode for a couple of years before doing my CBT, I needed it for full licence test. I think I got given it in around an hour from turning up, the examiner said this is pointless you've passed.
Anybody can just jump on an electric bicycle…no test..the motorbike laws in this country are daft..Boris might be able to relax it all…..lets ask him….he’s done wonders for bicycles..
Silver surfers would like to ride bikes….but getting a licence is too much faff…in the uk..so commerce takes a hit…
Government has killed the motorcycle industry in the uk
Yet another example of our young people getting completely ripped off....totally taking the piss..
Paul Cowell Yes it’s crazy! And the cost to do the training and test plus bike hire means nobody does it
I took my bike test in the UK back in 1962 on a 200cc Triumph Tiger Cub. For a learners license back then the min age was 16 y/o and max cc was 250cc, no pre training required. For my test, the test guy just stood on a corner and watched while I drove backwards and forwards through the intersection a few times. At one point he jumped out in front of me, luckily I'd been keeping an eye on him and anticipated this move so I didn't run him down. Back then the bike test was infinitely easier than the car test. Two months later I bought a 650cc Triumph Bonneville complete with clip-ons and a tight fibreglass racing fairing. Been riding a Harley now for the last 10 years. Not sure I'd be bothered to go through everything required to get out on two wheels in the UK these days.
And you are still alive? Ah! but, a different breed of "men" at that time.
Now? need a safety course on how to find and wipe their own ass.
I wanted to get into bikes a couple of years ago but the cost was too high for me to justify. Would love a triumph Bonneville or scrambler amazing looking bikes
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Try a good 2nd hand 125 trials and a trailer that will take that scrambler later, off road is a good start point at any age..
@@willielongbotham7156 are trail bikes still available? They were half-way between a road bike & a trials bike.
@@alanhat5252 Yes they are still available, marketed as "trail bikes" but looking much more like motocross bikes, for people that want to go mad on trails and look different on the road.
They all look like Paris Dakkar competitors.
I passed my test about 1960 on a BSA 250 cc. and got a full licence to ride any motorcycle. The test consisted of riding round a block a number of times while the tester stood at one corner so he could see me half of the time. I was told that when he stepped in the road and raised is hand, I should do an emergency stop. I have to admit I was not really a safe rider after that, but after a number of close calls, I wised up and went on to be a good rider for the rest of my life. I had in fact cottoned on to defensive riding without being taught or knowing it had a name. I never had a serious accident, just the usual like coming off on black ice even though I was riding slowly. I don't ride any more, too old to risk broken bones now so I just drive a car.
I did similar to you on a Honda CD175 but around a park it took just over a hour,around in one direction and then the other up and down a hill at walking pace with feet on the footpegs,Hand signals only,Some fools turned on indicator and hand signals and failed for not obeying instructions try to be "clever" was my interpretation,I got a Honda CB350 and that had a booklet of tips concerning engine brake and powerband and i adopted the style in the booklet as did my brother driving his car,All this getting into top gear was abandoned the fuel saving was non existent and the engine brake played a big part and the powerband instant acceleration just by dropping one gear straight into the powerband
@@Johnketes54 I'm not sure you understood the concept of defensive riding. It's about things like anticipating that car driver who did not see you before they drive out in front of you and not putting yourself into potentially dangerous situations. One safety idea I highly recommend is to have your headlamp on dipped beam at all times even in broad daylight. It definitely reduces those unseeing drivers. We grew up with a culture of not doing that because it would shorten the life of the bulb or flatten the battery especially with the old 6V systems. Today's electrics are far superior and there is no good reason not to take this simple safety measure.
Bloody hell, things have changed!!, glad i passed mine 30 years ago, seems very complicated, needs to go back to basics.
chris erskine Yes totally! Bonkers
This whole pandemic thing has got me interested in bikes and fulfilling a dream I've had for a number of years - it'll be a nice way of avoiding commuter trains. One thing that 'd found was that the licensing was totally confusing and I had no idea what I actually NEEDED to do after my CBT (booked for next weekend) as I'm 29. This video has cleared that up nicely! Thanks a lot!
Thanks Andrew! It's mega confusing to say the least! Glad the video helped.
The best way to reduce road collisions would be to make everyone take a bike test before being allowed to drive a car. That would ensure that all drivers are aware of road and weather conditions and be more considerate to other road users. As for the bike test 16 is ok to start on a bike with limited power output and speed but then progress to any bike after completing training and test. Another highs would be to make the car test much tougher.
It wouldn't make any difference. They'd get back in their cars and instantly forget or they just wouldn't give a toss. The standard of driving these days is abysmal. Everyone is in a rush. No one wants to slow down or give way.
I’m on 20 seconds and I’ll tell you why... Insurance costs way too much for young people to afford
That's certainly another factor. Watch the whole video though, bro, because there's more than one reason it sucks. Assuming someone can afford the extortionate insurance, they still have many hurdles to jump and hoops to go through
In Australia you need to hold a car licence for a year before you can get a bike licence. The idea is that you get used to traffic in a car which is safer and when you get on the bike you can concentrate more on the riding. Apart from that need to do a day course to get your learners and a 2 day one to get your licence up to a 650cc after 2 years you can do another course for your unrestricted.
Not in NSW, what state are you from?
@@mitchellbaker6528 The car license thing is not in Victoria either
I like the bit in the Japanese bike test where you have to lay the bike down & stand it up again unassisted, it forces manufacturers away from ridiculous bikes & riders away from bikes they can't handle.
It's simple. Cost. For new riders it costs almost as much to ride a motorcycle as to drive a car. Except it's less practical and most parents won't help out financially for motorcycles. So many young people just can't afford it.
Here in the US, you either have a motorcycle license, or you don’t. That seems to work here without the added complications
But this is UK law where, if it's possible to make a complete and utter pigs ear of a law they will.
@Google commie Fktard yea but we are talking about licenses here
I agree with you. I've said all along you can't ride a big bike but can drive a sports car! Absolutely no sense in it. A car can do a lot more damage than a bike in an accident
Gov don’t see it that way: they want to protect people from themselves.
Here in Portugal the laws are the following: 50cc at 14, 125cc at 16, A2 at 18 and full A license at 25 or after 3 years of A2 or A1(125cc). This means that if you get your A1 license at 16 you can get your A license has early has 19. You only need to take your written test once, and you only have to take driving lessons for the first time you get a license. After that you only need to do a practical exam if you want to upgrade o a higher license.
That’s better than the UK. 👍🏼👍🏼
I would do 50cc at 15.
I just find it funny that there are so many more steps (at least for young people) to get a full motorcycle licence, yet imagine the uproar if the government made similar rules for car drivers. Cars are bigger, heavier and consume more resources to make and run, yet they’re so much easier to be made legal to get behind the wheel of one.
Yes it doesn’t make sense 👍🏼
I live in Indiana USA . You have to be 15 to ride a 50cc bike . Once your 16 you can get your riding permit (written test)and ride anything , but you are restricted to ride during the day with no passenger, and must wear a helmet.After holding the permit for 30 days you can take a riding test and get your license. We have lobbyists for helmet laws and training . The training provided by these groups is affordable and is very beneficial.
Jason Hensley That’s great! It’s really ridiculous over here!
MrDarcy & the Ol'Man I will say this though. Once you go through the riding test and get your license you have to pay for that endorsement on your operators license or you lose it . If you lose it you have to start the whole process over.
Jason Hensley 👍🏼 💯
As a criminal lawyer, I can tell you that the magistrates court list is full of kids who just gave up on the crazy system. This means loads are uninsured costing us all money. I'm a biker of 45 years and my son of 29 just cannot find a test center while his CBT is valid.
Your spot on, Pass the test once , then be allowed to progress with experience.
I rode my first bike in 1976, it's a very different biking world these days. The UK has some of the busiest roads in the world so that makes us a little unique, we also have some of the most narrowest and ancient roads in the world so that also makes us a little unique, so I'm not sure that we can compare ourselves to other countries very easily.
All very true! 👍
The current complicated system grew up over many years as reactionary drawn out attempt to get young motorcyclists to a point where their maturity and experience meant they would be less likely to be a fatality. I started riding in the 70s, up to 250cc without any tests or training. I came off a few times doing stupid things, lost a friend showing off on a CB250 into a wall.
Many years later I found myself flying air ambulance and police helicopters, one of our regular tasks was road traffic collisions, it was clear that the majority of single vehicle fatalities
Involved loss of control due to excessive speed for the road conditions and statistically motorcyclists were far more likely to be the fatality.
Another observation was that the age of the fatalities was changing, born again motorcyclists, men in their 50s who had survived the 70s and 80s as young riders who gave it up then drove cars, had families etc, decided to take up biking again and could afford something much bigger and more powerful than they'd ever dreamed of but hadn't had the years of near misses and scares that motorcyclists learn from. On more than a few occasions I've been to the scene where the fatality is a rider from the back of a group trying to keep up and taking one risk too many for their experience level.
The licensing just seems like a cash grab or a way to STOP people from riding motorbikes.
Motorcycle laws have been crafted to dramatically reduce motorcycle use by making it difficult to obtain a full licence, I expect the same shortly for car driving licences.
I doubt it for cars as there Easy to catch and trace , motorcycles are piss easy to run from the police with
I passed my motorbike test in Chile after leaving the UK aged 20. I've drove the Dakar, numerous times around Latin America... and apparently after 20 years riding when I go back to the UK... That all means nothing and I have to re take my exam and everything. Truly bizarre
Yes you will need to do the CBT around some cones because your riding experience hasn’t done anything that skilled. 🙃
@@MrDarcy-OlMan I know, truly amazing. Funny thing is that legally I can ride ANY bike in the UK for the first 12 months using my license I got here... Then I just suddenly forget everything and the CBT will "remind me" how the ride. 🙄
I subbed. 💪💪 Here in America you test once on any bike and if you pass you can ride any bike no matter the size.
I remember these days. I got my A2 at 19. Upgraded to an A at 21 after 2 years, frustrating at the time But I personally think the 2 years of hootling around on a bandit helped me a lot on the r1 now.
Yes no doubt one needs to progress up the ladder, but there must be a better system
@@MrDarcy-OlMan oh for sure totally agree
I'm 19 and I simply can't afford to spend £700-£800 on A2, and then £2000 on a decent motorcycle and again £2000 on insurance, that's why I don't drive even though I would really like to.
It’s a shame because motorcycles used to be a cheap, easy form of transport. Governments are making them for the rich
@@MrDarcy-OlMan If the government in th UK want's the next generation of people to be contributing members of society their going to have to ease up on the licensing laws that's not opinion that's fact because with the UK having such restrictive licensing laws businesses an the economy are eventually going to start suffering as a result
Holy hell, is that what it is now, £2,000 for insurance for a 19 year old? What bike was that on and do you live in a high risk (big city) post code??
Been riding nearly 20 years and never got my head around the new licensing laws until now - good video explaining it, nice work
Have been having a similar discussion with a friend of mine, had a 125 when I was 17 soon after passed my driving test and bikes went by the wayside. I'm now 29 and will be getting a pair of vintage bikes that have gone down through the family. My friend is slightly older than me and did direct access and went straight into big bikes and doesn't see why I still want something smaller for a few years to get the gist of thinks even through direct access! Just because I can have an 1100 doesn't mean it should be my first bike!
I'm now in that situation where I've taken my A2 and am riding a restricted 600. What makes little sense is that in two years when I'll have 3 years experience, 2 of those on a 600, I'll have to spend a grand on the same tests again just to ride my bike without the restrictor. To me the solution is to have the restriction categories in place but have the licence automatically upgrade a to A after two years. Or perhaps require a CBT style training course, but not the same test on the same bike I just took but with a throttle stop removed that I never went past the whole test anyway.
You can upgrade from A2 like you to A without a test in the EU. All that's required is to attend a training session.
Yet you see people on electric bicycles and scooters who have never done any test whatsoever all over roads and pavements in any major city jumping lights ignoring one way streets carrying passengers not having lights wearing actual camouflage the violations are endless…. So why would someone wanting cheap mobility actually pay out for training or tests when they can ignore it all
The problem with the tests are they are super expensive, especially if you are hiring the bike in the usual way. I would agree with starting at 14 for 50cc, I also agree with doing the test once, but what I would suggest is like they do on the continent, make it so everyone is A2 for 2 years and then they get automatically upgraded to full A. That way you get the safety and progression without the expense. The main issue is the cost of multiple tests, at a time of your life when you are generally poorest.
Yes it’s restrictive to control you!
I offered to pay for both of my son's, bikes were always around. It wasn't the cost, it was the palaver, a convoluted mess to them so they got cars. We keep kids from being adults too long, that is not good.
About the 50cc, mine at 16 did 45mph, it was viable transport. I very much doubt a kid near me would be interested in a 30mph 50cc when they are already racing around on faster leccy bikes!😁
This is just typical of the UK. Been riding for 55 years and I have absolutely no idea of what these two guys are talking about, you couldn't make this bullshit up. All I had to do was ride a 250cc around the block a few times, read a car number plate and do an emergency stop. That was it, next bike a T120 and have progressed onwards from there. Still ride.
Yes it’s ridiculous quite frankly.
Passing my test in 1975 on a Suzuki GT250, involved riding around the block of the test centre one way, then the other, with the examiner on foot. All over in 10 mins.
Ah, the good old days ... My bike test was exactly the same. Did my test on a Honda CB250n
Ooops, you forgot the hill start and the examiner "jumping out in front" for the emergency stop!
1972 on a Honda CB250.
@@fabianmckenna8197 no hill start test on my 70's test as there were no hills lol , tester never jumped out on me , just held up his clipboard while he was stood on the pavement , I only went round the block once I dont think he even bothered watching untill I arrived back lol
My view here is that the UK gov have never liked motorcycles or motorcyclists and therefore have made this whole licensing process as complex as possible to deter would be new riders. With the current focus on climate change they have missed a big opportunity, over a number of decades, to include motorcycles as part of a joined up transport policy. What they should have been doing is encouraging people to ride motorcycles and scooters to ease traffic congestion and pollution levels. Instead we have a road tax charging structure which also contributes to deterring new be riders due to the costs and an overly complex licence process which you need an a level to navigate. I have been a motorcyclist for 35+ years and my eldest son was keen to start riding but the whole complexity of the licence process put him off and he went straight to a car. Maybe the new electric bikes coming onto the market will give the gov an opportunity to change their misguided licensing process but then again Boris’ lot are not that bright sadly…..keep up the great work with the vids guys…
Thanks buddy. Yes you’re absolutely right. Boris’s idea of green is to flatten ancient forests and build a dirty great train line!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan You are right about green Boris. The HS2 for all its Billions. Will get you from London to Manchester 20 minutes earlier giving you 20 more minutes to wait for a cab for your onward journey.
I am so glad I passed my test 32 years ago. 50cc to start, 250 on L plates, test, and then 250 till I was ready, then a 750 Suzuki! That said lost quiet a few mates back then. So with hindsight surely better to progress in steady jumps, but don’t complicate things with power to weight ratios, kw’s and stuff that’s just ridiculous.
Indeed, and sorry to hear about your mates.
I genuinely don’t think we should have the system we do, however; it should go back to what it was, but there definitely should be progression, but that should be the expected thing in the bike community, but rather people get too tempted by expert riders carving it up and want to do the same.
I personally believe it should be the same as a car. You get a theory and practical test at 17 and are then allowed to ride any bike. I think the cost of insurance would stop any young person from picking up a 600 or 1000cc. Heck, for me It's £1,400 for insurance for my 125cc and I'm 23. I do however think that you should be allowed a 50cc at 14.
The whole idea that people will be constantly upgrading bikes as they get the more advanced licenses is just unrealistic due to financial reasons. I will stay with my Hoodlum (which I bought thanks to your video on the bike) until I do my full unrestricted license. But by that point, many people would have just purchased a car.
Brilliant review covering an over complex system. I may get shot down for this but IMO all these separate licences age ranges tests etc are to generate more revenue for the chancellor. I have been both a motorcycle and car instructor
The bureaucracy is ridiculous. Once you've passed that's it. No extra checks or advice on advanced riding. I've been out the game for 15 years but believe its still a case of making it as difficult and costly to pass the test but once done government interest in our safety and riding standards cease. Like exorbitant road tax for bikers its just a money making machine. Solution. Everyone should spend 2 years riding a bike before they can regress (lol) to a car. Bring age down to 15 and increase to 125 category. 50cc is bloody dangerous! Stay safe
Pike Bobstar Gosh very good points Pike!!! Actually thinking about it, I think you’re right about the 50cc, they are dangerously slow in many situations and 125’s are not nearly as punchy as they used to be.
Yeah. Remember a mates Kawasaki kh125 2 stroke could do close to 90 on a good day. Today's 125 definitely not as potent .
Pike Bobstar 💯
Agreed, as spending some time on two wheels makes you aware of motorcyclists and also more aware of road conditions.
Stephen Fleming totally 👊🏼
I completely agree with what your saying! I'm 17 and I'd love to get a 125, but I have to pass my car test first. Cant wait to get a motorbike, I'm considering the Sunnis hoodlum 125, the suzuki marauder 125, the lexmoto Michigan 125 or the keeway superlight 125. Nice video guys!
Reuben Evans Good luck with it all bro! Make sure to sub because we’ve got a very cool 125 video coming up very soon.
I'm considerably past the 'young person' category, but I can confirm, having begun motorbike training a couple of years ago, that the process of getting a bike licence in the UK is considerably harder and more confusing than getting a car licence.
And conversely, while it is easier to get a car licence, once you pass, its even easier for new passes to buy a 3 litre supercharged V8 and go on the motorway... While motorcyclists like ourselves have to jump through hoops 🤷♂️
When I passed my bike test it was just a bloke standing on a street corner with a clipboard. Ride past him 3 times without falling off and you're good to ride anything on 2 wheels. I can see why something more stringent was needed, but they have gone waaay too far. My whole 20s were spent on big bikes, a lifestyle that has been legislated out of existance. UK is not a free country at all, whatever they tell you.
I didn't bother taking my test until I was 26 in 1976, it was simple, Borrow a 250cc, take the test, give the bike back, buy what you liked, job done no confusion, what you describe is government lunacy.
How did you learn?
@@Johnketes54 Get on a bike and ride it.
I think the laws are there to discourage motorcycling
Absolutely. These days the costs of all the training and testing (not to mention the usurous cost of insurance) make it ever harder for kids to start on bikes. Maybe that's the point of the legislation? If that sounds like a conspiracy to keep kids off the road on bikes, maybe that's better than the alternative?
I started on a 125 Honda because I had no money. The 125 was dirt cheap transport. I bought fuel (over 100 MPG when thrashed) oil, taught myself to check tappets and ignition and clean out the oil filter, bought tyres (sometimes used rears) chains, put 72K miles on it and did nothing else. It was cheap transport: freedom if you like.
Passed the test on the 125 and then graduated to bigger things as I could. Couldn't do that now. The bikes were always bought dirt cheap as non-runners and rebuilt, so the progression was slow. I could have got finance when I got a job and bought faster progression to something 'cool', but I chose not to. My choice, not dictated by having to buy a cheap car by the prohibitive cost of hoop jumping.
Shutting up now.
@@anemonemechanics3175I was brought up with the spanner and screwdriver in my hands learning before i got my first motorbike on the road...
as my father says:
in a car the metal is wrapped around your ass.
on a bike your ass is wrapped around the metal.
make sure you protect that metal well and make sure you know every nut and bolt will keep your ass off the tarmac.
The guy that passed these laws must be anti motorcycle. It's a CRAZY law!
I'll take a taxi, bus or train.
The difference being that a 20 year old couldn't get their Ferrari on the road as either no company would insure them or the cost would make it impractical. A powerful secondhand bike with a low value would cost next to nothing to insure. Just a thought. I was an idiot that did it all the wrong way. I went from a 125 lt to a 1200 VMax then a Blackbird - a Hayabusa - a 2.3 lt Rocket and now a 2.5lt Rocket. I was lucky that fear and the wisdom that I was not bulletproof kept me calm and alive. I worry that if I was eighteen, with less life experience -I would have ridden VERY differently...
Jet Cooper Very good points. Should the gov be the nanny state though, for the small minority that cant be sensible? I was a boy racer but always had enough fear and respect to stay within the limits of my skills and vehicles ability 👍🏼
Surely the stupid bike licensing and training process in the uk must actually be costing motorbike manufacturers loads of money ? because many people young and old even if they have always dreamt of owning and riding a motorbike are simply looking at whats involved and saying nah dont think il bother its just too much hassle ? not being funny but if the law states that they are happy for you tp ride a motorbike on the main road in heavy traffic after just 4 - 6 hrs tuition for a cbt then whats the problem ? the law is saying YOUR ABLE TO RIDE A MOTORBIKE. all the other things such as riding more powerful bikes simply comes with time and experience.just like driving a ford fiesta and then jumping into a 200mph ferrari yet as already stated on here the government are happy for new drivers to do that ? none of it makes any sense its like if you want to be a biker you will be pinalised for it. im 50 next year and have always wanted to have a motorbike and am seriously considering doing all the test but some days im like but why ? cbt they are happy you have proven your safe enuf to ride a motorbike. but then id also have mod 1 and then also mod 2 and not forgetting the theory test which i already did and passed for my full car licence. its just alot of hassle and simply a money racket.
Really good points there buddy.
Yes it definitely costs manufacturers sales and also is the reason that now, second hand bikes are rare and expensive. 30 years ago you could pick up a used bike for peanuts
Malaysia with a population of 32 million has 15.2 million registered motorbikes and scooters. Uk with a population of 67.22 million has just 1.27 million. How many dealerships, garages, mechanics don't exist, or are in danger of going out of business because of this myopic strategy? Speaking of safety, the youngest RAF cadet to fly solo and earn RAF wings was just 14 years old. You can fly a plane but can't ride a motorbike at that age!. And there are paramedics driving ambulances at just 19. Statistically, horse riding is more dangerous than motorcycling but there is no licensing requirement to ride a horse on a public highway. Safety standards are double standards folks and motorcycling is dying in the UK.
@@tchan279 Well said. I think that’s the best comment we’ve had on this video. Thanks buddy. Really puts it into perspective.
I sold one of my cars a few years back, and the chap came by helicopter, flown by his 18 year old son, who couldn’t ride a motorcycle with a full license! Need I say more
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Thank you for doing such a great service via this channel. Objective truth is important and provides clarity. This bureaucratic micromanaging of virtually everything in the UK is destroying productivity and our economy. "You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing" - Thomas Sowell.
@@MrDarcy-OlMan UN/WEF - no Petrol or Diesel Vehicles by 2035 and no privately owned Electric Vehicles by 2045.
You will own NOTHING and you will go NOWHERE and be Happy.
So you will have to live within walking distance of a train or bus station - never take anything you can't carry, never visit anybody not on the timetabled routes and only travel at time tabled times. Lockdown of human race on the nearing horizon - C0NV!D$CAM was just a litmus paper test for their end goal.
I think an ideal scenario would be a 125 from 16-18 and forget about 50cc. They're too slow for the roads, hard to find and expensive. Make kids do their CBT at 16, then go back for the test at 18, to allow them access to bigger machines. Could always put a power restriction in place for the first 2 years of the license. I think that part should apply to everyone anyway.
your points make sense Darren !
This seems like discrimination against motorcyclists. In the UK, a 17 year old can pass a car driving test and then drive any car, regardless of the car's power output. Why should motorcyclists have to take three tests? And given the current massive interest in cleaner transport, bikes like the Honda CB125F can do over 140mpg! The government should be encouraging people of all ages to ride motorcycles. Bikes can be more fuel efficient, cheaper to run, cause less traffic congestion, and use less parking space. Also, bikers are more alert than many car drivers, they aren't playing with an infotainment system or texting It's time for a review of the current legislation.
That's not strictly true,Phone holder's on the handlebars! Just as guilty as the car drivers another distraction
When I passed to get my full motorbike license 3 years ago it would have cost me 8000 pounds to insure a zx10r haha, more than the bike was worth
Asked my friend who lives in the UK about this once and he just gave up trying to explain it. As an American I just took the state sponsored course and had my bike license (M) at the end of it ,my first bike is a 500cc. I appreciate the explanation though. While I think 500cc isn’t too bad it do believe we should have atleast 2 classes for ours because a lot of younger people just go straight for the high power ones and end up in a hospital bed.
Completely agree, you could even make it hours/miles based like for flight training.
Start on a 125 when your 16, when your 18 you can go up to a 400 but only if you've had X amount of hours/miles, same again at 21 you can go up to a 800 but only if you've had x amount of hours/miles on the 400. This would stop people from riding a 125 for 4 years and then switching straight to a fireblade and killing themselves, especially if they've owned the 125 but it's sat in the yard 99% of the time.
Edit: Or, start on a 125, when your 18 OR when you've hit your hours/miles you can go up, so even if you're 17 but you have X hours experience you can jump to the 400. Older does not mean more experienced or skilled, more experienced and skilled means more experienced and skilled.
If they wanna be really strict they could have you be required to do a ride with an instructor each time you jump levels, as long as you're not seriously dangerous then they can just give you advice on your riding and tell you what needs improving. If you are seriously dangerous you get x hours mandatory training and a retest before you can ride again.
I'm not against licenses at all really (even though they don't really stop idiots from driving tbh), but they should make sense.
Good points there! Sadly this post Brexit government are not likely to change any laws for the better
There is far too much common sense in your comment for the modern law makers to get their minds around.
I passed my test in 1969 on a 200cc Triumph. I agree that there needs to be a progression, but it seems to me that Government policy is to discourage motorcycling, rather than just trying to make it safer. On returning to motorcycling in 2016 after a 27 year break I deliberately bought a 500cc Royal Enfield as being something within my competence, only too aware that at 67 my reactions are a lot slower than they used to be. Sadly, common sense seems to be absent among some bikers. It is well worth taking further training.
On my 16th birthday I got my provisional license, bought a brand new 250cc bike a couple of days later, never looked back, still an all weather speed freak rider at 73, have not fallen off yet (on road) trials and motocross is another story....the system is just a rubbish money maker.
And yet…..One can pass a car driving test in a sub 1 litre, 50hp vehicle, then hop into 300mph 1500hp Bugatti Chiron!
I’m glad I did my license before it all went mad, I had a125 until 21 then did my direct access. Once passed a weeks course I used my own common sense to progress up in cc an power (500 twin, 600 four, 750 and then 1000), this is my 15 year of riding full power and still loving it... nothing wrong with the old system, it’s just another way of our government nannying us, a 17 year old in a 20 year old Corsa can be a lot more dangerous then a 21 year old on a 500cc...
Totally agree with all your points.
Madness. I did my CBT at 16 and rode a Yamaha Fizzy for a year, upgraded to a TZR125 (god what a wonderful bike) and then did my test at 18 to get my full A licence. Got a ZZR250 and at about 27 a Yamaha 600cc Thundercat.
What madness for my son when he’s older.
All car licences should be issued on the proviso that the person has ridden a 50cc for at least 1000 miles. This would familiarise more road users to the dangers of biking.
After that the licencee can choose car or bike.
For a bike they move up a 2 tier scale which improves on training and experience. Training should be cheaper and more accessible providing jobs and promoting fun and safety. Roughly.
Guys, the whole point of the motorcycle licensing laws is to dissuade people from riding bikes and get them into cars.
It's worked!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Of course!
I grew up in Italy, and had a moped at age 14. At the time (1970s) no licence was needed, no helmet, no number plate, insurance: road tax being 14 were the only requirements.
16 was the age when I could ride a bike up to 125cc: for this I had to take a test consisting of a multiple choice paper: no riding test.
At 18 I could ride a motorcycle of any capacity on the test I took for the 125.
Compulsory helmets were introduced when I was 26...
My licence is still valid, if fact I have exchanged it for a UK licence and it will expire when I turn 70.
36 and moved to UK very recently. Thought about getting into bikes, and I'm extremely confused by the system - everywhere the explanation is for the age grades, but nothing properly explains what to do if you're no longer 17-19-24. Some places have wording like "of you have a full car driver's license" and never properly explain what advantages that gives.
Took me a while to realise I can just do a CBT and ride a 125cc without bothering with anything else really. Still hadn't done that, but now I think about all those delivery people on bikes with L plates - these guys didn't even have to do a road rules test if I'm correct...
Delivery people would just do a cbt test and have L plates on 👍🏼
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Yeah, with all the complexity I would expect UK to at least require a theory test as well or at least the basic road sign, markings and basic traffic code test. Mind boggling for me that you can go on public roads without that.
Back in Ukraine you don't touch any vehicle outside of training grounds unless you pass a theory test which includes basic understanding of how the vehicle operates mechanically, full road code (which includes vehicles you're not taking the test for), first medical aid, some legal responsibility.
Then again, UK says I can only directly exchange my full Ukrainian B license to UK B automatic, so 13 years of experience on a manual don't count, because "Ukrainian tests aren't as strict, if you want full license - pay for the test here" Wow.
On the scale of one to even - I just can't. XD
For me the whole problem started when the 50cc law came out, prior you could ride up to 250 or any capacity chair outfit on L plates they changed the law and bought in the 50cc thinking that would calm the speeds down the fissi came out of Japan and was a 85mph 50cc.
So since then it's got so restrictive it's just a joke the cost of changing bikes is ridiculous.
That said I'm old enough to have a car licence with A on it so I could buy just the one bike that said I started on a 650 matchless chair outfit but went through piles of 250,s from a BSA C11, Honda CB , Royal Enfield, GT Continental too an OSSA MAR trials.(which now sell for thousands I paid £300)
Madness! Yes old bikes are fetching good money - more than many new ones!
85 on a fizzy, a claim my mates used to make... never saw it myself, 60 down hill was more realistic, hankered after my friend's Gilera 50, sexy bike. Honda H100 was the star for me... two up it would do 65 all day long with a cloud of blue smoke! I don't understand the retro scene for little 50s? A friend restores fizzies and other small bikes, he says it's nostalgic? He also didn't take his bike test until 10 years ago so I doubt he every rode a bike as a teen? More and more... "never ridden a bike" newbies taking their tests later in life and then buying the biggest machine they can! The "born again biker" has been overtaken by this new group. A lot of purchases this year with small business COVID payments? Harley forums are full of "just passed my test and collecting new Roadking next week" FFS that isn't a starter bike, will be interested to see the accident stats... for a long time the 16-21 has been the safest with us crusties topping the chart!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Crap old bikes are fetching good money, rubbish the first time around but the knock on effect pushes the prices up. It's cheaper to buy an old pre 65 as the demand drops for them.... old boys dying off.
@@jamesmacdonald3090 Yes totally agree!
@@jamesmacdonald3090 good point!
So you could pass your bike test at age 16 back in the day and then not ride for say 40 years. You could then buy a bike capable of almost 200mph and be legally allowed to ride it right away with no other test needed. Silly really but true!
But only a macho wealthy brain dead would do that
Bring back the "Sidewinder" (yeah im that old)
I forgot about that!
Here in Portugal you have 4 licenses: AM, A1, A2 and A.
AM: up to 50cc and can't exceed 45Km/h. You can have it at minimum age of 14 years old as a "special license" with a 15 hour formation (8 pratical hours and 7 theorotical hours) + the exams. At minimum age of 16 years old as a "normal" license + exams and guess what... minimum 25 years old with the B driver's license!
A1, A2 and A are pretty much the same as in England.
But still, I can't understand this restrictions. I took my driver's licence with 19 years old and I can drive a Citroen AX with 45 horsepower or a Bugatti Veyron with 1001 horsepower.
Yes it's crazy!
I am Portuguese too, bit older then you so I did 50cc then A license and that's all I need.
Need to get everyone together and protest in public loud and clear. And also protest any politician against against a one or two stage license like we have here. In Illinois you test on bike of your choice, either below 350cc or above 350cc. But you need to pass the riding test. I chose to test ride on a 450cc which qualifies me for anything larger. Over the years, I have found riding a big heavy bike was a lot safer than a small bike, just by pure wind factor. Hardly would like riding a small motorcycle on the expressway. You tend to get blown all over the place behind or on the side of a semi-tractor trailer. It sounds like the ones that made the laws in the UK are really not serious riders, and don't know what they are talking about.
Pretty well much anti motorcycle as far back as i can remember,Young people got killed so put in loads of complicated rules to deter riding a motorcycle
gov't shouldn't be in the business of telling you what cc bike you can have. show your basic ability, and you should get a license at 16 or so. that's the way they do it in the USA, and it works. parents restrict the kids that need it, not govt.
It doesn't though you lot drop 1000cc bikes and claim sh#t happens practically no one would drop a 400cc or bigger because to get to that size we took a test and everything is so expensive
I thought that a 18 you were an adult, what happens at 21? And why 24? I passed my test at 16 plus one week. Passed and was able to ride what I wanted, for the rest of my life. This whole farce is to just stop anybody having a bike at all.
Wow. Got my license at 18. I can get on a moped or a full dresser
I'm grateful i got into bikes when i was 27. Didn't need to bother with all the silly progressive licensing. Don't blame young people not wanting to spend so much money to have a restricted bike. Then they get bored of it and buy a car then never bother with a bike again
At the age of 16 years my daughter took her 2 day $125 motorcycle test course and was legally permitted to ride anything she wanted to the very next day, Just last month a 20 year old fried who had no experience completed his licensing certification in the parking lot of a local Harley dealership and was immediately sold a Heritage Custom ,,,, welcome to Florida
Everyone under 25 should leave the EU and come to Florida!
I always thought it was stupid to take a test on a bike you can't ride you should take a test on a 125 that lets you ride a 400 or 600 then take a test on that bike that allows you to ride something bigger that way it's a natural progression on a bike you can ride or allready own
Very rarely do I find that a person buys a large motorcycle right away. They mostly have a progression as they move up to heavier motorcycles. I went 350, 400, 900, 1200, 1500cc over the course of years.
It would seem to be more concern for the government to tackle higher items of death like, drugs, crime, and murders where the body count is really much higher. Having the license complexity they have really hits the motorcycle industry hard. There would be a lot more riders and a lot more business activity if they would simplify the license process. It helps in job creation by selling more motorcycles.
@@skitzdaniel3314 I think the death rate would go up,The evidence is on TH-cam with American riders who fall off and accept it as ok,Here in the UK that would be exceedingly embarrassing
This makes me thankful for licensing laws in America, 1 written and 1 riding test and you can ride anything.
Yes it seems the USA have got it right.
I’m 17 tomorrow and I’m just riding a yz 125 in fields and tracks and it’s frustrating because my yz 125 has more power than pretty much all road bike 125s in terms of power to weight (33horsepower to around 90 kilo) so I have experience on a fast bike, yet I have to wait years until I can get a bike on the road with a similar power to weight
Yes that sucks! A street legal 125 is way down on the power your used to. The law is an ass, designed for the stupid and to protect us from ourselves. Nanny State
Happy birthday!
Japan has somewhat similar licensing laws for bikes, and the top licence is frankly stupid - which is why less big bikes are sold there and where the 400cc bikes all come from.
France does let you ride a 50cc moped at 14, but I believe it has to be a pedal start one (that may have changed, it's been years since I looked).
Apart from the licensing laws, one of the other big problems young riders face is insurance and storage - we all know bikes left outside are very easy to steal by two blokes and a transit. The current pricing insanity for renting or owning property, especially property with a garage or secure parking, means that the entry point to biking is made even harder.
Wow! That is incredible. How in the Hell can they come up with something as intrusive and complicated as that. I can only imagine the bureaucracy behind this. The day that I turned 16, 1971, I was at the local drivers licence office at eight o'clock in the morning with my dad's car and my motorcycle. I had purchased a Honda SL125 three months earlier and had already spent hundreds of hours, mostly in the dirt but many illegally on country back roads, in the saddle. Socialist Illinois, where I grew up, had a two tiered system of licensing motorcycles. Until a rider turned 18, they were restricted to bikes 150cc, or less. These bikes were classified as "Motor Driven Cycles" and were legal on all public roads except interstates. To this day, there are still signs on Illinois interstate on-ramps declaring this law. There was no special markings on the bike's license plate but, if I remember correctly, there was a different class marked on the drivers license. When a rider turned 18 they upgraded the license and the rider could, legally, ride any motorcycle. I bought a Honda CB450 as soon as I could and rode it for the next couple of years. I have owned over thirty bikes since. I, currently, keep five licensed and insured. This was a very interesting video. Thanks.
Nanny State Britain!
Because of this mentality this is the reason: I keep on reading comments on most bike related. Why do I always see the word “BEGINNER MOTORCYCLE” there is no such thing…It’s a small displacement and a high displacement. Let’s say I’m a learner on a car or newly licensed driver this this means I need to buy a mini then eventually drive a VAN as I progress and a trailer truck when I’m on my 50s… this is the mindset on bikes. It doesn’t matter if it’s a small bike or a big bike it’s still go a kill you if you’re doing stupid stuff!
3 license in Ontario Canada but it's nothing like that. M1,M2,M on anybike size you wish
In The Netherlands we even have 4 categories! 16 y/o: 50cc 4Kw 18 y/o: 125cc 11Kw/15HP 21y/o: 35Kw 48 HP 24y/o: unlimited
Gosh, complicated! 👊🏼
We hebben in Duitsland zo als in de Nederlanden deze 4 Categorien maar een 15-jarige kan een 25 kmh brommfiets rijbewijs maken. Dat zijn 5 Categorien in Duitsland😅
Its the same in greece
I'm 49 and looking at getting a bike and to be honest the entire licensing system for bikes in the UK seems designed to rake in cash and nothing more. Its a racket.
I think the solution is to keep the CBT to allow youngsters to get on the road but then have a week long course including a one test which allows you to ride anything. You could still have age appropriate or riding progression incorporated into it, but not as part of the stupid and numerous A ratings the driving licence has.
As someone who's only rode mopeds in my youth, what's the best way to get on the road with motorcycles at 50?
The gov don’t want motorcyclists. Unfortunately there’s no chance of change
@ Buggerlugz It sure is! Jobsworth examiners and their overlords don't care about the motorcycling sector's contribution to the wider economy and job creation etc. Their modus operandi is to always cite a few accidents as though that is the true representation of all the motorcyclists in the UK. Instead of penalising bad motorists through better enforcement of sensible traffic rules, they treat every motorcycle licence applicant as though they want to kill themselves. There is no transparency and accountabillity with these tests and one is completely at the mercy of the examiner's opinion of your riding. You can't train for the examiner's opinion. Period. How difficult is it for DVSA to equip their examiners with a body cam to make the process transparent? Saving lives...Just look at the Covid 19 mismanagement and excess deaths as a result ( Hundreds of thousands and counting). Do you know the biggest cause of young men dying in the UK? Mental health issues and suicide. 12 a week and the numbers are rising as per ONS. And they'd have us believe that they are trying to save lives. CAGED ANIMALS ARE SAFE BUT IT'S NOT MUCH OF A LIFE FOLKS!
@@MrDarcy-OlMan Couldn't agree more! Root and branch reform will only happen when the economy completely collapses and we are sleepwaking towards that abyss as a nation. Just look at the state of SMEs all over the UK and the tax burden. Completely unsustainable.
Time to goback to wot it used to be 250 on learner's licence when u pass the test unlimited
That what i remember but apparently their was a age restriction 600cc at 19 years of age,I don't remember that
So glad I did my test way back in 1979. Any bike upto 250 on L plates and then take test for full licence. Also no time limit on how long you could hold a learners licence. To me it seemed that system worked pretty well, never understood why they felt there was a need to change it.
All about the ££££££ Bob. Cars use more fuel than bikes. Governments could never see beyond petrol tax revenue so we’re all forced into cars and sitting in the congestion they cause.
I started as a learner with a 250 cc new bike,..passed my test got a 500 cc then a 750 cc in 1980 ..I've had bikes all my life I now ride a Ducati Streetfighter 1098 from new and now planning to buy a BMW S1000XR. The law is stupid, because UK is run by stupid politicians. The old way was far better. 😊👍👍🇬🇧
What's a license?
All good points. Personally I did my A1 in my 50s. It is purely for for fun and the odd comute, so no wish to go bigger.. Main reason was no lessons needed and I had a 125. Bit old for L PILATES and I do sometimes take my 11 year old for a short fun ride around the block. However I realise this is unusual and think that after 2 years accident free, the law/insurance should allow you to progress, without retaking all the same test
Thanks Bruce. Yes the law has not been well considered and needs to change.
I think that modern society in general has a problem with motorcycles. It doesn't want them. They are viewed as anti social, dangerous and an inconvenience to other road users. They get in the way of 'decent ' people trying to go about their lives. Hence the legal complexity in obtain a licence that puts off the young from bothering. Motorcycles, like bicycles, are not wanted on the roads. A great shame as, in reality, they both provide a viable solution to congestion in cities. Also, we now have a society that demands comfort and ease. Back in the seventies (when I got my first motorcycle) a 16 year old male was considered odd if he DIDN'T want a motorbike. Not so now. Too cold ,too wet, too dangerous. Personal lease contracts make it so easy for mum and dad to get the youngster a brand new car for their 17th birthday. I, and my contemporaries, have had the best of it. Personally, 54 motorcycles in 45 years have given me great times, lots of fun and lots of soakings and still more to come 😄
Very good points 💯
Well done Norman. 54 bikes in 45 years and lots of soakings and like me given the time again you probably wouldn’t change a thing.
@@peteallen82 Thanks Pete. There IS one thing I would change though.
I would try to fall off less... 😁
Here in Canada at 16 you can get your learners license to drive any size as long as you ride with a licensed rider….no time limit and you can take your road test any time you feel confident in doing so. I passed my learners first time at 30 dollars….1 year later took my road test and passed at 140 dollars. Now I have it for life.
I’m still very confused with all the licenses
You’re not the only one! 👍🏼
CBT - 16yo+ - up to 125cc (50cc for 16yo) with power and power:weight limits - L plates - No passengers or motorway use - Must be repeated every two years.
AM Licence - 16yo+ - up to 50cc with power and power:weight limits - No L plates.
A1 licence - 17yo+ - up to 125cc with power and power:weight limits - No L plates.
A2 licence - 19yo+ - no capacity limit with power and power:weight limits - No L plates.
A licence - 24yo+ direct access or two years after passing A2 (so minimum of 21yo) - No capacity, power or power:weight limits - No L plates.
@@bradcogan8588 Easy! Thanks bro
We all are
I still can't understand how, if you (or your parents) are rich enough, you can pass your driving test at 17 yrs old and get into a Bugatti Chiron to test out it's 1,500hp but only ride a 125cc bike on a bike licence!?
I rode a 125 Varadero from the Age of 17 until I was 24 and did my full licence. During these years I used to be quite vocal about how unfair that, even though I had much more riding experience, I was limited due to my age. On principle I wasn't going to pay twice for tests/training/bike hire. I often praised the older system of a 33bhp restriction for 2 years after passing your test no matter your age (minimum age 19).
That said when I turned 24, and jumped on the 70+ bhp bandit which my trainer provided, I realised two things. First my 'slightly' less responsible younger self would have probably pushed it too far if given a bigger bike back then . Second it is also irresponsible to allow anyone whom hasn't built up respect for how quickly things can go wrong on any bike, let alone a 'big bike', to do the same.
As a result I believe the old test but brought in at a minimum age of 21 would be a good middle ground. It would allow access to younger riders earlier but also allow riders of all ages the ability to learn respect for bikes before having access to all the fun.
OutFoxed Very good points and observations my friend! 💯
I have a headache now , thanks
I have to say the over complication and expense of getting a bike license has acted as a deterrent formme
I don’t think so. The license is an issue, but the main reason is money and status. Bikes are getting expensive and don’t have the attraction of heaters and weather protection. Time was, you bought a bike because you couldn’t afford a car. Nowadays, the insurance difference isn’t great, that tax is very little comparatively and the upfront cost of a bike is too high. Second hand bike for £2000, insurance for £500 and tax at £20 or whatever it is these days. Secondhand car £500, insurance £2000 and tax at £50 for economical 1.0. I’d pay £30 extra at 17 to have 4 mates, all of us dry and warm and more protection in an accident. As would most parents.
That may well be the case for a lot of people.
Flip side to that is that wannabe Lewis Hamilton in his first car with 3 mates can wipe them all out. This happened to a friend of mine many years ago (fortunately nobody seriously hurt but a terrible crash on a bend for showing off his driving prowess
There's plenty of usable bikes out there for under a grand. Got my scooter for £700 and it has cost me essentially nothing on top of that. You must be looking at mint 5-10 year old bikes with low mileage
Sounds like the leeches in the government have found more ways to be corrupt to me.
Thankfully I back in 1979, I was 16, did the test on a Honda 90, passed and bought myself a proper bike, that was here in Ireland.
Van den dal Simple how it used to be and should be.
Minority groups are always shafted when it comes to the making of laws. I have a laugh when I reflect back 57 years on my initial licence test. At 17 I did a verbal exam to obtain the L's and after 3 months I went for my full licence at the local cop shop. The examining officer instructed me to go and get the right change so I could pay the fee and on return and handing over the payment, he gave me my licence. "What about the test?" I said. "You got there and back so you must know how to ride".
57 years and 20 machines later, I am yet (touch wood) to have an accident. Out of interest I did an advanced riding training course in my 40's and was amazed how much I learnt - e.g. counter steering. The experience made me reflect that it would have been better had I had to take something like that for my first licence. We all pay a huge penalty for the relatively few daredevils amongst us who disregard their own and others' safety - which results in the ridiculous licencing regime that now applies.
Yes good points well said!
I learned to ride in Singapore. The system is a little bit simpler but much much more bureaucratic.
Start at 18 yrs old you can start to learn on a bike up to 200cc, ONLY IN AN ENCLOSED LEARNING CENTRE, a series of about 25 practical riding lessons and the various theory lessons and tests similar to the UK. After passing you ride only up to 200cc for 1 year before you can take the next test on a bike up to 400cc.
After passing you ride only up to 400cc for 1 year before you can take the next test on an unlimited cc bike, (usually around 700cc).
To be honest the CBT shouldn't be only for 2 years. It should be forever or at least last longer.
Yes indeed 👍🏼
A CBT is just basic instruction for starting the learning process. A CBT makes you a learner, nothing more. It should be a route to a full licence which is easily achievable in two years. You should be more encouraged to train after the CBT. Training for a full licence makes you a much safer and competent rider and lasts a lifetime.
BUT we do need the route to a full licence to be cheaper & simpler.