I've been looking into the Synergy stuff and always found the demos got very close but not quite there until I heard a demo of the 800 compared to an actual JCM800. It was compared by running the module through the JCM800s power amp, literally comparing just the preamps, and that's when I realised it was the JCM800s power amp that was missing from making the 800 module sound perfect. I've noticed a lot on the internet people claiming the tone is all in the preamp and the power amp does little to nothing. This demo showed that very much isn't true, you can hear the Marshall vibe in the Marshall power amps, I didn't even need to look at the video to hear when it had switched to the Mesa power amps, you could just hear that signature Mesa sound in those power amps. This definitely sold me on what I need to be looking for to get exactly the sound I want, thanks for such a really well done comparison
I'm glad I found this. Very informative test. My picks in order: 1) VHT Classic. The 2150 for me has too much bass which sounds a little loose too. 2) Marshall 9100 5881 Monobloc 3) Mesa Boogie 50/50 6L6
Another great one Mike! I watched this video twice just to make sure my opinion was definite. I was really impressed by the VHT 2/50/2 EL34 overall. If I had to pick just one. Thanks again for your great videos because I would never gain this knowledge without them. 👍
Nearly 30 years ago I traded away a Mesa Quad Pre-amp and a Marshall 9200 100/100 Dual Mono Bloc along with some other miscellaneous rack gear for a couple Marshall Heads because I had a ground loop issue that nobody could seem to figure out and it would randomly deliver an incredibly loud pop and hum while playing. I got a really nice JCM800 in the trade that I still own but man do I wish I still had that rack. I ran the Mesa through a Digitech DSP128+ and a BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer and OH MY! That thing sounded like the voice of God with my Les Paul. If it weren't for the sheer terror that it might blow-up on stage I would have never gotten rid of it. I've often thought about trying to re-acquire the components I had for that set-up but the prices on the two main pieces have gone through the roof. OH WELL. Cheers.
Ive got one of those, a 2:95 and a Recto. 2:90s the best if not quite as brutal as the Recto. Using my modded MP1 thru a couple Furman PQ4s into the 2:90 doesn't leave a lot to be desired
I bet you spend a fortune on tubes. I saw that Mesa 395 and thought I wonder if he puts fresh tubes in all of those poweramp$$$$. The VHT stuff is just sexy. I like Mesa, but I must say the V800 SS was pretty decent. I have never seen one of those, I must look into it. Thanks for taking the time to do all that !
Well done Mike! I like your choice of material as well. Each riff shows off a different side of the amps. TO me it proves why the legends are legends. The 2150 is HUGE sounding. Thanks for doing this!
Thank for this comparison vid, some archival quality material here! It's fryette/VHT that get's my vote. I was intent on the Mesa boogie 20/20 up until now, but your video changes that! Thanks a million brother!
Really cool video! I love guitar amps and have way too many - if that is possible... My favorite is easily the VHT 2150. It is clear and has great dynamics. Powerful and not harsh. Second surprised me: Marshall 20/20 EL 84. The clean tones I like the best, and the distorted tones were excellent. But then Marshall really knows how to design great EL84 guitar amps (i.e. 1974X). Thanks for the awesome video!
I have just discovered your channel. This is so unique. I bet this is the biggest guitar amp collection in the world. And you have the technical knowledge to maintain all this vintage gear. Phenomenal.
Well Done. The GT was well suited for the clean, very warm vintage sounding. VHT/Fryette rules all things heavy. Try your Morin through a 2150...blisss
Listened through twice. Every time I looked up it was either the Fryette or the VHT (50/50 also, and shout to one of the Marshalls), but mostly this is a game of small percentages. The solid states also didn’t sound that great to me in this shootout, but more so on the distorted playthrough (didn’t like the H&H at all). Groove Tubes definitely the dog of the distorted playthrough.
haHA!! That intro was hilarious!! Goodness…I just love the VHT power amps. They’re just flamethrowers in the world of power amps. Truly love the VHT/Fryette stuff! Such a great video!! They’re all really cool and unique…good thing you own all of them and don’t have to worry what stays and what goes Lol
Great stuff. It confirms one thing for sure that there's still debate about (for some reason) - the power amp has a big impact on the overall tone of an amp or rig. The Synergy 5050 for example produces 4-5db less low end compared to the VHT 2150, and a little less high end. Pretty significant difference.
VHT / Fryette and Steavens are the best sounding. I'm not surprised as Steavens amps are terrific. H/H always the best but MosValve amazes me any time.
i think a criminally under rated power amp is the Randall rt250. this is actually my power amp of choice for my synergy rack. i have ine side loaded with 6l6 and the other with el34. and switch it accordingly with the modules. aka british vs american.
I have an RT2/50. I also have a VHT Classic and I used to have the 2150. Had a Mesa 50/50. Mosvalve. RT2/50 sounds just as good as those VHTs. Not as much power, but it’s plenty loud. And I can make the Randall sound like the Classic by running it with EL34, or more like a 2150 by running 6L6. But my absolute favorite thing about the Randall is the user tube biasing feature. I wish my VHT had that. So convenient. That Randall is really frickin heavy too, ain’t it!!
I owned ADA MicroFET 100, Peavey 50/50, Carvin TS100, Mesa 50/50. Then in 2002 I ordered & owned a Steve Fryette made VHT Two-Ninety-Two. BEST power amp I ever had. After years of solid live use, it unexpectedly died and I sent it to a local repair shop. It was never the same. I eventually sent it to Steve and got it repaired correctly. After that, I sold it because I decided to lighten my load. I started using my backup: MosValve MV 962. I still use that amp today. It's just "OK" but no power amp I have owned has ever matched the VHT in thick tone, HUGE sound, and weight :) I would consider a Mesa 20/20. I remember some owners upgrading their 20/20's with a deep or thick mod. Did later models of the 20/20 come with that feature built in?
I still have my MosValve. Took it apart to clean the pots. It did the trick. I have owned that power amp since '92. I have a Marshall 9005. I got it about 15 years ago. It needs some repairs. When I get it fixed I want to modify the presence circuit. I have been wanting the Synergy 50/50 and the Syn 2 system. I want to restore my rack setup. Someday....
I like the apparent transparency of the VS250. Also like the 2150 but with KT88s... But then again I'm bias and partial to many of these amps since that's what I play.
Crazy video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. So much difference on the gain side of things. Clean was fairly similar. Wonder how age of tubes affects things?
VHT kills. I own 2 fattbottom 4 12s and always wished for a Pitbull. ive gone thru about a dozen poweramps and have to say my early 80's modded 2204 (6550) fx loop return is the best poweramp ive played theu. Its crystal clean all the way up but as u crank it it gains something most people (including myself at first) would assume is power tube distortion. Nope. That PI is whats adding the magic
Honestly my wish was that you would use the Langner preamp into all 16 poweramps into greenbacks in the next one....bc I have a DCP-1 and a 2150-S and 2100-C into old creambacks but you get my drift.
The rack has rear rails but they are too far to offer support. I do have a support block under each of the bottom amps to help distribute the weight. It also makes it possible to slide the amps in and out.
Yeeeeessss I've been holding this video off for a good while now to listen to it in a nice moment, and this is finally it. Sooo delicious. My only complaint is how much power amps cost. With preamps you can still collect some of them without really investing a lot. With power amps you're just out of luck. Thank god for SP-1000 though, was my road to rack tones. And damn is it heavy for such a little box. That metal chassis is something else. But I suppose the biggest thing is to marry the correct preamp and poweramp together, not just go for your two favourites. Did I miss it or was there any VHT with KT88? Like 2902. I liked the VHT Classic quite a bit. It wasn't as sharp in terms of being bright etc, but it had some "mojo". It's funny how even with power amps, Mesa is definitely recognizable as being different in its own typical way. Or maybe it's actually the power section that often makes the sound of a Mesa amp? It's also interesting how I think the solid state amps did very well in this, they sounded pretty good, perhaps more to my liking than some others. For brightness and sharpness I'd go for Marshall, for punch and clarity VHT. Mesa for that Mesa thing. SP-1000 and H&H just feel like old mojo, can't put a finger on what they really do differently. VHT 2502 was perhaps less to my liking.
All of the great rack power amps are crazy $$$ these days. I don't even want to tell you what I paid for that VHT Classic. I think it is very much a recipe thing. The power amp choice definitely changes from preamp to preamp. I do find the VHTs to be the most universal. My VHT 2150 was an early build with 6550s. The later versions had KT88s. Michael Nielsen compared his 2150 (KT88s) vs mine (6550s) and the differences was subtle but not enough to pick out unless you knew it was an A/B test. I still want to pick up a 2902 so I can have a KT88 amp.
The only thing that really stuck out to me was the fact that I didn’t really care for the Groove tubes power amp….seems like it had an odd (not great to my ears) midrange thing happening. I did want to hear the MosValve though ! Dang it 😭…..enjoyed the vid…I always love comparisons, this one was great.
Mesa 50 : 50 with blue diode is different kind of beast than its red dioded counterpart. Could you add it to the list and repeat the comparison 😁 ? I wonder how it holds up with clean sounds in comparison to all those VHT, Mesa and Marshall poweramps.
@@5150forevermore when I bought mine it was loaded with el34 on the front row, there's a small print inside saying the front row can be 6l6 or el34 (without changing anything). BTW I have the model with the volume and presence knobs on front, maybe this simul class only works on the latter revisions. But check it out, it sounds cool!!!
@@hugovafo Yea mine has the guide as well. I just remember a couple amp guys saying it's not really Simulclass. But Im pretty sure they had Simulclass stickers on em. Mine was taken off at some point cause I can see where it was. I have to investigate further. It's a great freakin poweramp. Totally usable volumes too
@@5150forevermore one of my responses was deleted; I was showing you (with a link) some guy selling the strategy 400 with el34. I have those simulclass stickers all over the power amp but I went to the owners manual and found this: Power tubes: "...we have specially adapted 4 of the sockets -those along the rear edge- to accept either 6L6 or EL34. This tube is characterized by more prominent harmonic output when driven hard which produces a brighter, more grinding high-end, usually preferred for guitar. No internal changes are required, the two type of tubes are immediately interchangeable. Thus one model amplifier with interchangeable tubes replaces the two different types (normal and Simul-Class) described in some of our catalogs." It's evolution!!!!! The step beyond simul class haahhaah. About the volume you're spot on! You don't have to be violent loud to sound fantastic, this power amp sounds brilliant no matter what (volume, preamp etc etc). What preamp are you using?
I think after watching that. I’m never selling my Mesa 50/50s… I’ve been considering getting a single space power amp. To cut down my gigging setup and save a little weight. But I think I’d be compromising the tone. So to hell with it. I just gotta live with the weight. Just do a few more reps in the gym lol
@@michaeltoren I have the GPDI & Synergy Pittbull module. The GPDI got me close to what I loved about the GP3. The Pittbull module gets me all the way at least from what I remember of the GP3. I now use the GPDI for clean sounds & the Synergy for overdrive
Im in constant bias as to whether the power amps make all the difference or none at all :) LOL...I have 3 and depending on how hard I drive them , they do make a huge difference or not at all. But since for really heavy tight metal playing you want less power amp flub and more preamp gain, for recording volumes power amps almost make no difference to me. Add the mic compression and all these become almost irrelevant for tight metal recordings. BUT....in the room is still very much enjoyable!!!
I have a soft spot for the VHTs. The Lee Jackson is also really nice. The H&H is great too but is just huge. If I had to live with one though, it would be either the 2150 or the Classic.
Here is how I believe this works. The "input preamp" is for your dry preamp signal. The "input effect" is for a 100% wet effects unit's output. This way you can to blend the dry and wet signals using the "input mix" control.
Excellent video sir. Do you remember which power amp was the quietest? Meaning, least amount of perceptible background hum/hiss/noise? Cheers and thanks for spending this money so we don't have to!
Total ear porn! Amazing. When I started the video I thought you’re either crazy as F or smart as F. I was wrong, you’re crazy smart as F! The first sort was quick being a Fryette guy, I was convinced game over with the. hT Classic. Then the Hughes & Kettner surprised me because I ignorantly always thought of them as flavorless bass heads. But I have to say the Marshall 9100 blew me away. On the sweet melodic side they were all really good, so I feel I have to go back to my original round. So for me it’s the 5881’s in the Marshall 9100 for my humble first place, followed by a tie between the EL84’s in the Hughes & Kettner and the EL34’s in the VHT Classic. Awesome, awesome, awesome shootout.
I think the 2 best were the VHT 2150 and the Mesa 395. Of the el84s I like the Mesa the best. I didn't like any of the Marshalls. I did not like the synergy which kinda surprised me and I didn't object to the solid state either(Shocking I Know) I'm listening on really good studio monitors and I thought the grove tubes sounded good. But you know sounding good and feeling good are 2 different animals
also what are your thoughts of the differences between the 2100 end the 2150? i think my originals series classic has a very open and hi fi top end sound compared to my other power amps. in your video i think the 2150 has the vht sound with a smoother too end and more lower mids resulting in a thicker meatier sound.
@@michaeltoren I wonder if you could help me with a question. I swear I remember there being a Peavey Classic 20/20 but can find nothing about it on the internet am I just getting some mandella effect here. I sort of quit looking at these power amps for a decade until the last year or so. I know of the engl 20/20 amps and there's that newer Russian R&R. Looking for something to run in stereo that isn't 100 watts. The Marshall and Mesa's used price is ridiculous right now those things should be more like $400 and they are listing them for $800 to $1000. Tried to get a hold of R&R but they don't answer me likely cause of the Ukraine war. I like the idea of their 20/20 cause it has 6L6 in it.
Newbie here for power amps. Basic Question, I run in stereo. Do the stereo power amps split the signal into true right/left? Also I have the Seymour Duncan powerstage coming to check out. I'm a tube guy and was wondering how would the fryette lx stereo compare. I know it would probably sound warmer. Thanks.
I have both. Actually the powerstage is suprisingly warm sounding even though it's a solid state amp. These amps will split you're signal into true left and right..
I know I am not helping lol but you should try to get your hands on a Seymour Duncan KTG 2100. It has 2 x KT88´s per channel running at 90ish watts. Thanks for making this video
How do you have your power amps ran? I was going to run a patch bay for mine but that was before I read patchbays can’t handle amp signal so what’s the best way of bringing the connections to the front of the rack?
I have run them a few different ways but all needed an amp switcher. I currently user four KHE ASX 8 amp switchers in the rack and they work great. They also handle the signal distribution to the inputs on my power amps so that only the live am receives preamp signal. The ASXs daisy chain and then feed a bank of Ampete 88s in my amp head wall, which handle my heads as well as distribute the amp signals to my cabs.
I really like the Marshall 20/20 (EL84s) for clean sounds due to the warmth but I think it is equally due to the amp's design as the tube. I find the Mesa 20/20 to be kind of cold.
VHT Classic sounds the most flat, which I think you want in a power amp. 2150 is good --- it seems to be boosted on the low end, but it may be that the low end is not rolled off as much as others. 9100 sounds fairly flat, but without the high end rolled off, so you can hear the brilliance at the top end. H&H was pretty fair. GT sounds like trash.
The VHT EL34 sounded the best the Groove Tubes sounded the worst. The marshall 20/20 sounded way better than the Synergy.. Heck it sounded better than the bigger Marshall
There are some current production preamps that are very good. The Synergy modules cover alot of ground however there are a few old ones that stand alone. The Matchless GPR-1 is a great example of one.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
The best opening :07 of any video.
I've been looking into the Synergy stuff and always found the demos got very close but not quite there until I heard a demo of the 800 compared to an actual JCM800. It was compared by running the module through the JCM800s power amp, literally comparing just the preamps, and that's when I realised it was the JCM800s power amp that was missing from making the 800 module sound perfect.
I've noticed a lot on the internet people claiming the tone is all in the preamp and the power amp does little to nothing. This demo showed that very much isn't true, you can hear the Marshall vibe in the Marshall power amps, I didn't even need to look at the video to hear when it had switched to the Mesa power amps, you could just hear that signature Mesa sound in those power amps. This definitely sold me on what I need to be looking for to get exactly the sound I want, thanks for such a really well done comparison
Amazing, thanks for doing this!
I'm glad I found this. Very informative test. My picks in order:
1) VHT Classic. The 2150 for me has too much bass which sounds a little loose too.
2) Marshall 9100 5881 Monobloc
3) Mesa Boogie 50/50 6L6
Another great one Mike!
I watched this video twice just to make sure my opinion was definite.
I was really impressed by the VHT 2/50/2 EL34 overall.
If I had to pick just one.
Thanks again for your great videos because I would never gain this knowledge without them. 👍
Thank you very much!
The world is on fire, but it's okay! Mike Toren brings the rack goodness! I know where to go to escape.
Nearly 30 years ago I traded away a Mesa Quad Pre-amp and a Marshall 9200 100/100 Dual Mono Bloc along with some other miscellaneous rack gear for a couple Marshall Heads because I had a ground loop issue that nobody could seem to figure out and it would randomly deliver an incredibly loud pop and hum while playing. I got a really nice JCM800 in the trade that I still own but man do I wish I still had that rack. I ran the Mesa through a Digitech DSP128+ and a BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer and OH MY! That thing sounded like the voice of God with my Les Paul. If it weren't for the sheer terror that it might blow-up on stage I would have never gotten rid of it. I've often thought about trying to re-acquire the components I had for that set-up but the prices on the two main pieces have gone through the roof. OH WELL. Cheers.
Dude a quad into a couple Furman 4 bands into a 2:95 and a couple JCM800 cabs is a very, very good sound
For a solid state the SP1000 was amazing. I do love the EL34 power amps. The preamp is more suited to high gain / rock.
VHT Classic #1
I've been using a Mesa 2:Ninety for years, and you confirmed that sweet tone here. Still prefer 6L6s to EL34s
Ive got one of those, a 2:95 and a Recto. 2:90s the best if not quite as brutal as the Recto. Using my modded MP1 thru a couple Furman PQ4s into the 2:90 doesn't leave a lot to be desired
To my ears the VHT Classic is a clear winner! Thanks for taking the effort to do this big shootout!
I bet you spend a fortune on tubes. I saw that Mesa 395 and thought I wonder if he puts fresh tubes in all of those poweramp$$$$. The VHT stuff is just sexy. I like Mesa, but I must say the V800 SS was pretty decent. I have never seen one of those, I must look into it. Thanks for taking the time to do all that !
Well done Mike! I like your choice of material as well. Each riff shows off a different side of the amps. TO me it proves why the legends are legends. The 2150 is HUGE sounding. Thanks for doing this!
Thank for this comparison vid, some archival quality material here!
It's fryette/VHT that get's my vote. I was intent on the Mesa boogie 20/20 up until now, but your video changes that! Thanks a million brother!
Really cool video! I love guitar amps and have way too many - if that is possible...
My favorite is easily the VHT 2150. It is clear and has great dynamics. Powerful and not harsh.
Second surprised me: Marshall 20/20 EL 84. The clean tones I like the best, and the distorted tones were excellent. But then Marshall really knows how to design great EL84 guitar amps (i.e. 1974X). Thanks for the awesome video!
I have just discovered your channel. This is so unique. I bet this is the biggest guitar amp collection in the world. And you have the technical knowledge to maintain all this vintage gear. Phenomenal.
Damn, Spoon Man gets a little hard on the ears after awhile lol.
Good vid, Michael. I'm just waiting on my Fryette 2/90/2 and I'm very excited.
Well Done. The GT was well suited for the clean, very warm vintage sounding. VHT/Fryette rules all things heavy. Try your Morin through a 2150...blisss
Great video... I like the Boog 50/50
Listened through twice. Every time I looked up it was either the Fryette or the VHT (50/50 also, and shout to one of the Marshalls), but mostly this is a game of small percentages. The solid states also didn’t sound that great to me in this shootout, but more so on the distorted playthrough (didn’t like the H&H at all). Groove Tubes definitely the dog of the distorted playthrough.
haHA!! That intro was hilarious!! Goodness…I just love the VHT power amps. They’re just flamethrowers in the world of power amps. Truly love the VHT/Fryette stuff! Such a great video!! They’re all really cool and unique…good thing you own all of them and don’t have to worry what stays and what goes Lol
My ranking from high to low was:
VHT 2150 6550
VHT 2/50/2 EL34
Fryette LXII 6L6
Stevens Tube Base 1002 EL34
VHT Classic EL34
Mesa 50/50 6L6
Mesa Simul-Class 2:90 6L6
Marshall EL84 20/20 EL84
Hughes and Kettner VS250 EL84
Marshall 9100 5881
H&H MOS-FET SS
Mesa Simul Steri 395 6L6 and EL34
Synergy 50/50 6L6
Mesa 20/20 Dyna-Watt EL84
Lee Jackson SP1000 SS
Groove Tubes Dual 75 EL34
Great stuff. It confirms one thing for sure that there's still debate about (for some reason) - the power amp has a big impact on the overall tone of an amp or rig.
The Synergy 5050 for example produces 4-5db less low end compared to the VHT 2150, and a little less high end. Pretty significant difference.
VHT / Fryette and Steavens are the best sounding. I'm not surprised as Steavens amps are terrific. H/H always the best but MosValve amazes me any time.
I have a MosValve 962 and am kicking myself for not including it in the video along with the Randall RT2/50.
Nice! Love the VHT stuff!
Great video Michael!! Made me feel great about my choice of the LX2.
i think a criminally under rated power amp is the Randall rt250. this is actually my power amp of choice for my synergy rack. i have ine side loaded with 6l6 and the other with el34. and switch it accordingly with the modules. aka british vs american.
I have an RT2/50. I also have a VHT Classic and I used to have the 2150. Had a Mesa 50/50. Mosvalve.
RT2/50 sounds just as good as those VHTs. Not as much power, but it’s plenty loud.
And I can make the Randall sound like the Classic by running it with EL34, or more like a 2150 by running 6L6.
But my absolute favorite thing about the Randall is the user tube biasing feature. I wish my VHT had that. So convenient.
That Randall is really frickin heavy too, ain’t it!!
I owned ADA MicroFET 100, Peavey 50/50, Carvin TS100, Mesa 50/50. Then in 2002 I ordered & owned a Steve Fryette made VHT Two-Ninety-Two. BEST power amp I ever had. After years of solid live use, it unexpectedly died and I sent it to a local repair shop. It was never the same. I eventually sent it to Steve and got it repaired correctly. After that, I sold it because I decided to lighten my load. I started using my backup: MosValve MV 962. I still use that amp today. It's just "OK" but no power amp I have owned has ever matched the VHT in thick tone, HUGE sound, and weight :)
I would consider a Mesa 20/20. I remember some owners upgrading their 20/20's with a deep or thick mod. Did later models of the 20/20 come with that feature built in?
Right on. Thanks for sharing.
nicee now the same with preamps? hehe
The VHT Classic Chrome with EL34's wins for me, but I'm probably biased because that's the one I own.
I still have my MosValve. Took it apart to clean the pots. It did the trick. I have owned that power amp since '92. I have a Marshall 9005. I got it about 15 years ago. It needs some repairs. When I get it fixed I want to modify the presence circuit. I have been wanting the Synergy 50/50 and the Syn 2 system. I want to restore my rack setup. Someday....
I like the apparent transparency of the VS250. Also like the 2150 but with KT88s... But then again I'm bias and partial to many of these amps since that's what I play.
You are so nuts it’s awesome
Interesting. VHTs were my favorite, but man was I happy to hear the Marshall EL84 20/20 is up to them, soundwise. And I own one, ha ha.
The Marshall 20/20 is my favorite EL84 power amp.
great video .... you do great stuff
Crazy video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. So much difference on the gain side of things. Clean was fairly similar. Wonder how age of tubes affects things?
You need some ADA power amps and Peavey
VHT kills. I own 2 fattbottom 4 12s and always wished for a Pitbull. ive gone thru about a dozen poweramps and have to say my early 80's modded 2204 (6550) fx loop return is the best poweramp ive played theu. Its crystal clean all the way up but as u crank it it gains something most people (including myself at first) would assume is power tube distortion. Nope. That PI is whats adding the magic
Livin' the dream! Love these videos!
The VHT 2150 is probably my fav
I still think about completing the collection and getting a 2/90/2 (KT88s)
@@michaeltoren you're missing a Mesa 295 and a Mesa strategy 400 too 😉
@@KristianLarsenGuitar you will be seeing a 295 shortly
Dude save some ass for all us tone dorks!! Awesome channel and wonderful collection you got there!!
Simul 395 sounds the sweetest if you ask me.
Really like the marshall mono block but was wanting to hear the solid state tubes work
Honestly my wish was that you would use the Langner preamp into all 16 poweramps into greenbacks in the next one....bc I have a DCP-1 and a 2150-S and 2100-C into old creambacks but you get my drift.
Aw dam wanted to hear the gp3 lol
awesome video. do your racks also have rear rails? i also have a 2100 and it is so heavy it bends the front rack rails
The rack has rear rails but they are too far to offer support. I do have a support block under each of the bottom amps to help distribute the weight. It also makes it possible to slide the amps in and out.
Fuck dude killer switcher. Not to mention FML on your poweramps 😂🤘
Mesa 2:90 6L6 for me. Which blows my mind because I'm a Marshall EL34 guy all my life...
Yeeeeessss I've been holding this video off for a good while now to listen to it in a nice moment, and this is finally it. Sooo delicious. My only complaint is how much power amps cost. With preamps you can still collect some of them without really investing a lot. With power amps you're just out of luck. Thank god for SP-1000 though, was my road to rack tones. And damn is it heavy for such a little box. That metal chassis is something else. But I suppose the biggest thing is to marry the correct preamp and poweramp together, not just go for your two favourites.
Did I miss it or was there any VHT with KT88? Like 2902. I liked the VHT Classic quite a bit. It wasn't as sharp in terms of being bright etc, but it had some "mojo". It's funny how even with power amps, Mesa is definitely recognizable as being different in its own typical way. Or maybe it's actually the power section that often makes the sound of a Mesa amp? It's also interesting how I think the solid state amps did very well in this, they sounded pretty good, perhaps more to my liking than some others. For brightness and sharpness I'd go for Marshall, for punch and clarity VHT. Mesa for that Mesa thing. SP-1000 and H&H just feel like old mojo, can't put a finger on what they really do differently. VHT 2502 was perhaps less to my liking.
All of the great rack power amps are crazy $$$ these days. I don't even want to tell you what I paid for that VHT Classic. I think it is very much a recipe thing. The power amp choice definitely changes from preamp to preamp. I do find the VHTs to be the most universal.
My VHT 2150 was an early build with 6550s. The later versions had KT88s. Michael Nielsen compared his 2150 (KT88s) vs mine (6550s) and the differences was subtle but not enough to pick out unless you knew it was an A/B test. I still want to pick up a 2902 so I can have a KT88 amp.
That Marshall el84 sounds so big for what it is, what a surprise. Try Engl e810 and e840.
The only thing that really stuck out to me was the fact that I didn’t really care for the Groove tubes power amp….seems like it had an odd (not great to my ears) midrange thing happening. I did want to hear the MosValve though ! Dang it 😭…..enjoyed the vid…I always love comparisons, this one was great.
Mesa 50 : 50 with blue diode is different kind of beast than its red dioded counterpart. Could you add it to the list and repeat the comparison 😁 ? I wonder how it holds up with clean sounds in comparison to all those VHT, Mesa and Marshall poweramps.
I have only one rack power amp. The mighty Mesa Boogie Strategy 400. One of the best pieces of gear I own.
Are you running the 400 on simul class? Sounds really good (I also have one of those beasts)
@@hugovafo I just have all 6L6s in it. Ive heard theyre not actually simulclass but im not sure. 🤔
@@5150forevermore when I bought mine it was loaded with el34 on the front row, there's a small print inside saying the front row can be 6l6 or el34 (without changing anything).
BTW I have the model with the volume and presence knobs on front, maybe this simul class only works on the latter revisions. But check it out, it sounds cool!!!
@@hugovafo Yea mine has the guide as well. I just remember a couple amp guys saying it's not really Simulclass. But Im pretty sure they had Simulclass stickers on em. Mine was taken off at some point cause I can see where it was. I have to investigate further. It's a great freakin poweramp. Totally usable volumes too
@@5150forevermore one of my responses was deleted; I was showing you (with a link) some guy selling the strategy 400 with el34.
I have those simulclass stickers all over the power amp but I went to the owners manual and found this:
Power tubes:
"...we have specially adapted 4 of the sockets -those along the rear edge- to accept either 6L6 or EL34. This tube is characterized by more
prominent harmonic output when driven hard which produces a brighter, more grinding high-end, usually preferred for guitar. No internal changes are required, the two type of tubes are immediately interchangeable. Thus one model amplifier with interchangeable tubes replaces the two different types (normal and Simul-Class) described in some of our catalogs."
It's evolution!!!!! The step beyond simul class haahhaah.
About the volume you're spot on! You don't have to be violent loud to sound fantastic, this power amp sounds brilliant no matter what (volume, preamp etc etc).
What preamp are you using?
listening without looking. differences so minuscule that they could be achieved with some eq and a single poweramp
I think after watching that. I’m never selling my Mesa 50/50s…
I’ve been considering getting a single space power amp. To cut down my gigging setup and save a little weight.
But I think I’d be compromising the tone. So to hell with it. I just gotta live with the weight. Just do a few more reps in the gym lol
VHT 2150 def was the winner!
So close to the gp3, the only piece of gear I regret selling
Its a great preamp. One of these days I have to do a shootout between the GP3, the GP/DI and the Synergy modules.
@@michaeltoren I have the GPDI & Synergy Pittbull module. The GPDI got me close to what I loved about the GP3. The Pittbull module gets me all the way at least from what I remember of the GP3. I now use the GPDI for clean sounds & the Synergy for overdrive
VHT and Fryette Steven is bad 👍 Marshall 20/20 sounds great to . Hell of a collection in all 👊
Im in constant bias as to whether the power amps make all the difference or none at all :) LOL...I have 3 and depending on how hard I drive them , they do make a huge difference or not at all. But since for really heavy tight metal playing you want less power amp flub and more preamp gain, for recording volumes power amps almost make no difference to me. Add the mic compression and all these become almost irrelevant for tight metal recordings. BUT....in the room is still very much enjoyable!!!
Great video! Do you have some favorites? Favorite tube?favorite s.s.? Favorite small amp? Favorite overall?
I have a soft spot for the VHTs. The Lee Jackson is also really nice. The H&H is great too but is just huge. If I had to live with one though, it would be either the 2150 or the Classic.
Could you possibly give me insight as to the function of the effect in input Jack on the Groove Tubes Dual 75 power amp
Here is how I believe this works. The "input preamp" is for your dry preamp signal. The "input effect" is for a 100% wet effects unit's output. This way you can to blend the dry and wet signals using the "input mix" control.
You can be a tonex grand master with all that amp😂
Wow nice job Michael. I have one word for you ... McIntosh ... get a 50, 2100, 2300, see what ya think..
2150. By far
Hi Michael I need some help with the wiring of my 4 preamp and a single poweramp using an Rg16 audio switcher. Can you help me?
Excellent video sir. Do you remember which power amp was the quietest? Meaning, least amount of perceptible background hum/hiss/noise? Cheers and thanks for spending this money so we don't have to!
Precise job, I love it
It is on the list. I'm planning on an updated version as I have over 24 power amps now.
2150 or 2/90/2 for me, been playing them for ages
Total ear porn! Amazing. When I started the video I thought you’re either crazy as F or smart as F. I was wrong, you’re crazy smart as F! The first sort was quick being a Fryette guy, I was convinced game over with the. hT Classic.
Then the Hughes & Kettner surprised me because I ignorantly always thought of them as flavorless bass heads. But I have to say the Marshall 9100 blew me away.
On the sweet melodic side they were all really good, so I feel I have to go back to my original round.
So for me it’s the 5881’s in the Marshall 9100 for my humble first place, followed by a tie between the EL84’s in the Hughes & Kettner and the EL34’s in the VHT Classic.
Awesome, awesome, awesome shootout.
Missed mv-962
All I could think was, Nice, an SVT and an 800rb. All you could ever need for bass.
I think the 2 best were the VHT 2150 and the Mesa 395. Of the el84s I like the Mesa the best. I didn't like any of the Marshalls. I did not like the synergy which kinda surprised me and I didn't object to the solid state either(Shocking I Know) I'm listening on really good studio monitors and I thought the grove tubes sounded good. But you know sounding good and feeling good are 2 different animals
also what are your thoughts of the differences between the 2100 end the 2150? i think my originals series classic has a very open and hi fi top end sound compared to my other power amps. in your video i think the 2150 has the vht sound with a smoother too end and more lower mids resulting in a thicker meatier sound.
Out of all your power amps what is your favorite one?
I had like 2 of the only power amps you don't have, ADA microtube 100 and Peavey Classic 60/60
I would say it's a toss up between the 2150 and Classic.
@anthonyallard3156 I have since acquired a few more, a Peavey classic 120 included. So far, I haven't gotten my hands on an ADA.... yet.
@michaeltoren i would say my microtube 100 fairs well vs the 6060 peavey using my ada mp2. It weighs about 1 10th as much haha.
@@michaeltoren I wonder if you could help me with a question. I swear I remember there being a Peavey Classic 20/20 but can find nothing about it on the internet am I just getting some mandella effect here. I sort of quit looking at these power amps for a decade until the last year or so.
I know of the engl 20/20 amps and there's that newer Russian R&R. Looking for something to run in stereo that isn't 100 watts. The Marshall and Mesa's used price is ridiculous right now those things should be more like $400 and they are listing them for $800 to $1000. Tried to get a hold of R&R but they don't answer me likely cause of the Ukraine war. I like the idea of their 20/20 cause it has 6L6 in it.
Newbie here for power amps.
Basic Question, I run in stereo. Do the stereo power amps split the signal into true right/left?
Also I have the Seymour Duncan powerstage coming to check out. I'm a tube guy and was wondering how would the fryette lx stereo compare. I know it would probably sound warmer.
Thanks.
I have both.
Actually the powerstage is suprisingly warm sounding even though it's a solid state amp.
These amps will split you're signal into true left and right..
I know I am not helping lol but you should try to get your hands on a Seymour Duncan KTG 2100. It has 2 x KT88´s per channel running at 90ish watts. Thanks for making this video
I have one for sale on Reverb right now, I'll try to make a comparison with the VHT 2/50/20 which I just purchased to replace it!
mesa 50/50 FTW
Just picked one up on Sat to do a WDW rig with a Mark IV
The Mesa 50/50 was actually my first power amp.
@@michaeltoren , it’s surprising how close it sounds to the VHT 2150, for a fraction of the cost. But seems to have just a bit more life to the sound.
@@RDamps and you don't need a crane to lift it!
How do you have your power amps ran? I was going to run a patch bay for mine but that was before I read patchbays can’t handle amp signal so what’s the best way of bringing the connections to the front of the rack?
I have run them a few different ways but all needed an amp switcher. I currently user four KHE ASX 8 amp switchers in the rack and they work great. They also handle the signal distribution to the inputs on my power amps so that only the live am receives preamp signal. The ASXs daisy chain and then feed a bank of Ampete 88s in my amp head wall, which handle my heads as well as distribute the amp signals to my cabs.
Man that Synergy sounds whimpy :(
Would cranking the presence/dentity have helped?
i don't see a Strategy 500 in there. No power amp collection is complete without it.
Still on the hunt for that one and a few others.
Hey Mike, I just picked up an SP-1000. It sounds great, both sides work but I have no activity on the sine wave LEDs. Do yours work?
Not sure why my youtube "handle" was that but whatever... it's updated.
It does, but I really have to crank the volume to get the Leds to light up.
Are the voicing switches pressed in on the VHT models?
Best for clean sounds el84 ?
I really like the Marshall 20/20 (EL84s) for clean sounds due to the warmth but I think it is equally due to the amp's design as the tube. I find the Mesa 20/20 to be kind of cold.
VHT Classic sounds the most flat, which I think you want in a power amp. 2150 is good --- it seems to be boosted on the low end, but it may be that the low end is not rolled off as much as others. 9100 sounds fairly flat, but without the high end rolled off, so you can hear the brilliance at the top end. H&H was pretty fair. GT sounds like trash.
👍🇬🇧 MARSHALL 9100 & STEVENS & MESA 2:90 ( MARSHALL BETTER WITH EL34's )
The VHT EL34 sounded the best the Groove Tubes sounded the worst. The marshall 20/20 sounded way better than the Synergy.. Heck it sounded better than the bigger Marshall
what no mosvalve 500 lol)
Do you feel that the new preamp are as good as the old ones?
There are some current production preamps that are very good. The Synergy modules cover alot of ground however there are a few old ones that stand alone. The Matchless GPR-1 is a great example of one.
Nice videos, Mosvalve power amp is good amp bro?
I have a MosValve MV-962 and it's a good amp. Probably #3 behind the Lee Jackson and the H&H for solid state power amps.
lol this is insanity
sweet. what's your ad converter ?
I'm using Focusrite interfaces.
Toan
Great comparison video....... wish I could have been there to hear the "true" sound out of your monitors.