Why not just make them BOTH curved?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- Many European locomotives and wagons used to carry two different types of buffers: One with a curved buffer plate and the other one flat. But why?
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:14 Buffer Basics
1:47 Flat Buffers
3:32 Outro - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Very informative, thank you. I didn't even realize the left ones were flat to begin with.
Fortunately, here in North America, we've always used draft gear to absorb forces between railway vehicles in combination with link-and-pin couplers (now obsolete) and later with knuckle couplers.
In the early 70's all European railwaystock should get automatic couplers as agreed in an international railway convention like the rest of the world.
Due to the extreme high costs of retrofitting the biggest fleet of railway stock in the world it was only done slowely and mostly used for special cases.
The US sort of knuckle couplers and even some locomotives are only used in heavy ore, coal, steel and other heavy goods block trains.
For not equiped with such a knuckle coupling locomotive, coupler cars that have on one end the standard european shackle coupling and buffers and on the other side the knuckle coupler are used.
Most of those coupler cars are converted from a standard car and are on purpose disabled to carry anny freight.
Thats reason is that they have a heavier shock absorber installed then the normal knuckle coupler freight cars to prevent coupling failure.
The last 3 decades classic pulled by a locomotive individual coupled passenger trains are in fast decline because more energy efficient and faster DMU's EMU's and lightweight trainsets are replacing them.
On normal non block train general freight trains classic shackle coupling is still the norm.
Also on fixed passenger trainsets only the locomotive the 1st passenger car and on the other side control cab car has the standard shackle coupling.
Such a trainset is permantly coupled and/or has jacobs bogies and can only be uncoupled at a maintenance facility.
@@obelic71now we're finishing up the design details as part of DAC4EU, to switch to SchaKu 10.
another seemingly simple questing, beautifully answered and explained, even though it's harder to than most would think. A great accomplishment!
I live in America so I'm glad my OCD won't bug me with knuckle couplers rather than buffers
Same
Knuckle couplers, however, aren't symmetrical either. Just saying.
@steelbridgemodels seeing as there's like 50 types of knuckles worldwide, mainly Shibata, AAR, Janey, Sharon, Sharon & Tower, ETC
Keep in mind also that some regions have rail wagons with BOTH knuckle couplers and buffers, allowing them to cross connect between "chain" and knuckle fitted wagons. This means they have neither mirror nor rotational symmetry. Your welcome.
Only yesterday I was looking at a Swiss crocodile and asked myself this exact question that also had one convex and one flat buffer. Thank you very much for researching it and saving me a lot of searching!
I literally noticed this at the railway museum a few weeks ago and have been wondering about it on and off since. What amazing timing
I legitimately didnt know they were different
Keep these videos coming ! ❤
I’m from the UK and love German railways history and have lots of pre ww2 locomotives.
Your videos really help explain questions I’ve often had when looking at my models, so really appreciate your work,
Many thanks! You stir my interest in digging out my 1990's Märklin HO trains from a trunk in my garage. I loved how the AC power allowed protypical speeds, compared to most DC power of the day.
Oh, please get your Märklin trains out again, there is so much fun to be had! And thank you so much for your support!
Thanks for looking up the facts for this and illustrate it so beautifully with the models!
And this is what I call going down a TH-cam rabbit hole. But so excellently presented that I don't mind, and I hope this comes up in a quiz some day. Thanks for the curious insight! Also, your shiny models are a joy to behold.
Thank you for your kind words!
I did not know that! It's a good day when you learn something new.
really interesting little fun fact, thanks!
THANK YOU!!! I can finally sleep without being kept up by this question.
@TOAD69500 Yes! I can now take my sleep aid without "buffering." 🤣😂😎🤗
Very informatrive video and awesome Railwaymodels! I wasn't sure what i love more, the informations or the models...
now that is a lot of digging !!
thanks for finding it out
Oh thanks you for this nice answer.😊
I've been asking myself this question for a long time, without explanation.
Great video, You might also want to dive in to the reason as to why modern day Emu's and Dmu's have these horizontally grooved buffers.
That's an overriding protection. If they collide then it should stop one trainset from climbing up on the other.
Dat is om te verkomen dat een treinstel omhoog "klimt" in geval van een botsing tussen twee treinstellen. Ik geloof dat de Stadler GTW's een van de eerste waren die ze had in NL.
You might want to dive in to the reason why * Emu's and Dmu's * have apostrophes in them . . .
i never knew this thanks for the video on this.
My first thought was that a curved buffer would like be more expensive to make. If the increase in manufacturing cost was greater than the cost impact of managing asymmetrical buffers, that alone would have been sufficient reason.
Ive always wondered why american trains dont have buffers at all. Can you make a video about it, please?😊
What I don't understand, is why they didn't simply use a pair of spring loaded couplings that would be rigidly affixed between two cars so that the connection would not have a tendancy to jerk or bump, as well as making buffer locking a non issue.
Here's a question: "why are german locomotives undercarriage always painted red?
Oh, that is a good one! Thanks for the suggestion!
Polish steam locomotives too
And UK steam too
Interestingly video I didn’t knew this fact about the buffers. Does anyone know what the coupler in the middle at 1:02 is? Looks a bit strange normally there would be chain link or how you call that.
It's a model train coupling rather than a prototypical one, as I design my models for 3D-printing.
@@steelbridgemodels interesting do you also print the couplers? Is there a website were you sell these models since they look quite good. Maybe do a video what printer and settings you use etc.
@@christiankaiser7747 Thank you! I haven't started printing myself and therefore can't offer any models or prints just yet. But that might change the future! And yes, also the couplers are supposed to be printed.
Interesting. I found these on a lot of old Lima HO wagons and often wondered why they were made that way. I'm not sure if this practice is followed in the UK but I will find out.
From what I've seen, it was convex buffers on all four corners for British rolling stock.
@@TallboyDave I see, but these are for the continental HO scale items.
Janney couplers: These are so, so terribly inferior
Sehr interessanter Einblick, das hatte ich mich auch gefragt.
Warum modellierst du die Schienenfahrzeuge mit "Modellkupplungen" (welchem Standard entsprechen die? Wohl keiner NEM?) und nicht mit Schraubenkupplungen? (Womöglich kommen noch Schaku, AK69e, AAR, Schwab und was es sonst noch alles für Kupplungstypen gibt ...)
Ease, convenience and less strain on the eyes, , mein liebe eisenbahnfreund. I used three link and screw couplings in OO for a long time, but gave up eventually for simplicity's sake.
Also its not so easy to fit them to a lot of modern stock, with metal buffer beams and cast internal weights.
(English version down below!)
Irgendwann möchte ich meine Modelle 3D-drucken und dabei liegt der Fokus nicht nur auf Aussehen, sondern auch auf die Handhabbarkeit. Mit maßstäblichen Schraubenkupplungen möchte ich mich dabei nicht herumärgern müssen, zumal diese auch kein automatisches Kuppeln oder Entkuppeln erlauben. Und da ich angefangen vom Gleismaterial über die Fahrzeuge bis hin zu den Gebäuden ohnehin alles selbst drucken möchte, muss ich mich auch nach keine bestehenden Normen richten, sondern konstruiere alle Systeme entsprechend meinen eigenen Vorstellungen selbst.
Someday I want to 3D-print my models, focusing not only on looks, but also on usability. And true to scale screw couplings are not something I want to have to bother with, not least because they don't allow for automatic coupling and uncoupling. And as I plan to print everything myself anyway from track to vehicles and buildings I don't have to follow any existing norms, but rather design all systems myself according to my own expectations.
Question.
How do you get 5 coupled driving wheels on a steam loco (2-10-0) around curves??? 🤔🤓
That concept was developed by Austrian locomotive designer Karl Gölsdorf, based on theoretical work done by German engineer Richard von Helmholtz.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6lsdorf_axle
an then there was Britain, using whatever buffers they wanted, but on both sides.
I always thought the flat ones were just cheaper replacements 😅
Anyone else didnt notice the channel and thought it was an ultrasonic sensor?
Dear Author, I'm sorry. But you haven't fully answered your own question. Round buffers do tend to slip off on an uneven path. The reason for this is that for two curved surfaces, when their axes are shifted, a force arises that tends to increase this displacement. If one of the surfaces is flat, then such a force has a constant value, which does not lead to an increase in shear
TBH, I never noticed until now.
0:02 nah what are those sodor ahh lamps 💀
These are German lamps. They only look Sudrian to you because they used the original Märklin lamps painted white on the show.
@@sudrianliam1199 oh. that would make a nice addition to my headcannon:
not only were engines loaned from nearby railways, but far away ones too. germany was one of them. a drg 80 named puffa was loaned and was even kept on sodor until 1928, where he was sent to america. topham hatt i (the fat director) bought the german lamps because the s&br (Sudrian and Barrow-in-Furness Railway) needed more lamps so germany agreed to sell them to the railway.
I had never realised that the buffers were different. I have now learned something new. Thank you.
What I cannot understand is why European railways persisted in using buffers and coupling hooks when the American knuckle couplers have proved themselves to be far superior in every way.
Freight cars are operated in many different countries by many different railway companies. So the first reason is they all have to agree to do this and! they have to agree to change to which coupler as well. There are other options for example the German C-AKv-coupler which is compatible with the russian Sa3 coupler which would be another option. Second reason would be what do you do in the time you are changing over? New and old would be not compatible so you have massive problems operating freight trains while you're doing it. Third reason is that it would be massively expensive because of the amount of freight cars operated here so even poorer railway companies would have to be able to do it. Another reason would be the missing air link of the coupler. So somebody would have to couple and decouple them anyway. There are projects to find a solution for that to develop a coupler that automatically couples air as well. ( And maybe might have a data line as well) That one will be expensive again so I am sceptical it will be adopted. The only use case we have here is on heavy ore trains where the old coupler is physically limited. So the C-Akv Coupler is used instead. That one by the way is able to couple to normal coupler so it would be my favourite.
@@jonkess2768 There is a current problem with coupler compatibility, anyway, as there are so many different patterns in use. Even couplers of the same type, e.g. Dellner, are fitted at different heights. Rescue locomotives (called "Thunderbirds" in Britain) have to be specially adapted to deal with these problems. Other countries around the World have managed to change to a common automatic coupler, so in my opinion, a European standard could be reached- After all, Brussels manages to impose uniformity on things that have no importance at all. My preferred option would be the AAR Knuckle, but the present systems need a change, whichever is chosen (by Railway experts, not Brussels).
@@MervynPartin We have a project here in Germany for the "Digitale Automatische Kupplung für den Güterverkehr" DB Likes to put Digital on every project everything they do is "Digitalisierung".... But I digress they agreed to use some type of shaku coupler. I don't think that was a great choice for many reasons. It is not compatible with current couplers. All freight cars need data lines now that have to be equipped. That will make freight cars much more expensive in the future. I don't think that's the correct way. I think you will see alot of freight cars broken because harsch weather affected them while standing in some station for weeks on end. Freight cars in my opinion have to be extremely robust. I don't think a shaku offers that. Maybe the russian coupler would be the correct one because it is already in use in Scandinavia but I am not an expert. Just somebody that works for DBInfrago.
@@jonkess2768 Thanks for that information. I shall look for some more details on them.
@@jonkess2768Well, the Russian SA3 coupler are not in common use in Scandinavia. The exception is mainly the ore trains between Kiruna, Luleå and Narvik. Regular trains still use screw couplers.
1:37 You meant to say left, right? Or did you think in direction of travel and not from the perspective that we see?
Well, since it is the same on every picture, it isn't too hard to figure this out.
I am always referring to the direction of travel, as it's also common practise in printed publications. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear.
It would be better not to need buffers at all.
Good video! Still I'm wandering why so many European railways haven't switched to automatic couplers in the first place
Either all or none have to switch to keep interoperability as wagons often cross borders. The digital automatic Scharfenberg coupler as the European solution is being worked on.
Doesn't eliminate buffers, though. Typical UK Southern Region had four-coach electric multiple unit sets. With inter-coach coupling being effectively fixed. But two or three four-coach units would often be coupled up for longer trains. They had automatic coupling (just needing manual connection of brake pipe and electrical) and buffers. The buffers were always needed for protection at the ends of the four-coach sets.
@@polyvg in Ukraine (just like in every post soviet country) buffers are present only on passenger cars. And they both are a bit convex
@@MartinBrenner so automatic couplers isn't a thing in EU just because they weren't able to agree on switching to this system?
@@Bigubus Yes. Schaufenberg couplers have existed for a long time and are used for EMUs but otherwise compatibility between the national railways was more important and the system has been working for centuries and still does, both locomotive pulled international passenger trains and cross border freight. The new digital standard coupler will have more advantages than just automatic coupling to justify the cost involved.
I feel like you would do well also explaining some American 3ft gauge equipment with your dedication.
Imagine needing buffers to protect your rolling stock, couldn't be us.
This comment was made by Knuckle Coupler gang
"dig deep" ??? took me 2 seconds in chatgpt
"If both buffers were flat or both were rounded, there is a higher risk of the buffers locking together in a way that could prevent proper decoupling or cause damage. The mixed design reduces the likelihood of this locking, making the coupling and uncoupling processes more reliable and safer."
ChatGPT is not a quotable source though, and you can't guarantee what is says isn't a made up jumble of different sources. It's only right that for this video he went with a proper printed source.
You didn't answer the question in the title.
He did. Two curved buffers increases the risk of buffer lock. Only 1 needs to be curved to get the benefit.
2 views in 1 minute, this channel has fallen off
Says the channel with no video's what so ever.
@@yellowstonethepony7769 I'm not a content creator and it's a joke
R/whoosh?@@yellowstonethepony7769
@@_Moritus_ damn bro, so funny, nobody laughed