@@jbrfr94 More so tight deadlines, bank is a great time saver for every department. Especially in an era where each cel is hand painted and needs time to dry.
While GT didn’t have the best art and animation. I loved the art style. It felt like a continuation of Z. The characters felt older with the tans and the world just felt more gritty and lived in. The clean look in super makes it feel a little soulless imo.
Honestly, I think GT was the most consistent out of all the series in regard to good art, but yeah the animation was pretty lackluster. How I wish we coulda got just on Studio Cockpit episode on GT :(
I found that with some shows too. Although there are some shows I go back and watch and they have much better animation than I remember. Sometimes I'm really impressed with them and wonder how this was done for a TV production
@@DrRhyhmWe can't keep pretending super's animation is bad anymore. Yes, majority of the time it's horrendous but when they put their all into it, it's spectacular. GT hardly has these moments; not to say they always have bad animation but Super's animation peak is way higher than GT's. Artstyle is definitely understandable though, they just had a better character designer.
When I was a kid, I owned the GT cassette tape with the Ledgic fight in it and I remember rewatching it religiously. A few years ago I rewatched it to see if it still held up, since I don't ever hear it be talked about and I still thought it was a very very well animated fight, with everything you'd want from a Dragon Ball fight, but since I don't know the ins and outs of animation I couldn't tell you *why*, so it's really cathartic seeing you cover it. Just a shame that it's placed in one of the most disliked arcs of the series, with Ledgic only having minor foreshadowing before this and never returning, so despite his great design and techniques, he gets forgotten. Hell I forget his name often myself, as much as I wish I didn't
I know right? Kinda interesting to find some quality stuff like this sandwiched in between and yeah it wasn't until making this video actually I remembered how many neat techniques he had!
Hey man you trying something new with the way you structure your sentences or how you deliver them? It seems like lately that's changed up just a little bit and it feels more energetic it's a nice change. As always nice to see you breakdown animation keep up the good work!
Both Korra and ATLA have amazing animation in most episodes. The coreography in that series honestly astounding for a TV series. The incorporation of martial arts with bending with great art and fluid movement.
True, "basic" fights were so common in DB even before GT that I don't remember people complaining XD And the characters are usually so well-done basic execution isn't enough for supporting the "GT had bad art" trope. Battle-coreography aside, GT looks way better than Super. No cap. With Yuya Takahashi's pieces being one of the few and sparce exceptions.
@@forgottenrelics1197 Unsure of the reason why, but there're many tropes about GT... it won't surprise me if people simply assume this due to GT reputation lol
I feel like we need a video based on SS4's debut vs Baby. That episode, imo anyway, is the only one in GT besides EP5 that has both great art and great animation consistent throughout the entire episode. There is a reason that every single frame from this episode is either a TH-cam clip with millions of views or a wallpaper.
Even as a kid i could recognize how non existent the animation was in GT. Looked great alot of the time but it "moved" in such a boring, stilted, and uninteresting way
@@forgottenrelics1197 i was 10 years old in ghana watching that. it was the only cartoon that would play after i got home from school and they kept REPEATING THOSE FEW EPISODES. It drove me insane, especially since it was so boring and took so long. Memories
Its interesting to see the difference between Super and GT. GT had better art but sluggish animation Super had better animation but sluggish art.(until the end, kind of) Its an interesting dive into animation direction.
Yep they very much leaned on two opposite extremes. There is nothing in GT as abysmal as the lows of the Rof arc like ep 24, at the same time there's nothing even close to ToP's best or even the Future Trunks arc for that matter.
@@edsontorrontegui9491 bro it really depends on the arc honestly the movie retellings are shit and the animation through u6 tournament is meh while the art is garbage, the animation gets good during Goku black arc and the art while not pretty is serviceable, TOP though is mostly great on the animation department with some being the best in terms of pure animation in the whole franchise and the art improvement is noticeable and in some episodes like goku's fight with kale, caulifula and kefla, the final parts of the tournament has good art (even though it's not the best in terms of the whole franchise).
@@jdrmanmusiqking how was the animation in the ToP and parts of Zasmasu’s arc trash exactly?? It was literally some of the best animation in the entire series
also, that hiroyuki kakudou guy you pointed out is an amazing storyboard artist! he directed the first digimon anime and had some really great eerie and creative stuff in digimon ghost game as episode director/sb (or just sb).
ahhh interesting, he's a name that doesn't enter the series until GT so I was completely unfamiliar with him. really cool to know what he went on to do!
Love your videos man, I'm not someone who can naturally find all these flaws so it's really interesting seeing a breakdown of scenes that I thought felt unnatural but was just unsure why, quality stuff
Would be cool to know your take on some Saint Seiya fights scenes. Generally, I would say they are more choppy than most of Dragonball but there are some amazing fights, especially against Golden Saints. I would say, the beatdown Gemini Saga gives Seiya and Ikki has some crazy nice effects and animation.
This perfectly puts something that I've struggled to articulate about GT. The color pallets and choice of shots is downright breathtaking most of the time. The animation? Not so much. Coincidentally, it makes it great second monitor content, even in Japanese.
I really wish more Dragon Ball youtubers would do MORE stuff with GT. Like with all the "What if's" and everything....but they ALL go into fucking DBS. Not a single one goes into the realm of GT & beyond. In the original story, DBS was not a thing. Completely glossed over. No matter how much people want to look the other way, GT IS part of DB whether they like it or not. But these cowards avoid it like the plague or something. I'm glad some people are talking about it though. I just wish there was more.
This sequence was the first I watched from DBGT. It was showed on TMC Monte Carlo to showcase what GT was. I was in awe, and thought DBGT was really nicely done. Well, too bad very little of GT's animation gets up to this level.
You have earned my subscription 🫡 I adore GT despite all of its flaws and ledgic is such a unique character I wish he was in games. GT had everything it needed to be amazing, just execution was somehow botched. But I see the vision
@ForgottenRelics the baby fight wasn't bad persay. but it wasn't anything special. Like baby punching goku felt way to slow lots of repeats. But had sprinkles of cool frames and moments like goku throwing baby and tanking the revenge death ball twice. But the moment to moment choreography was meh
Watching basically all of DB recently really does show that while GT had really consistent art and animation, some of the most consistent, it never hit the highs of OG, Z, and Super. Each of those series have far more segments of really good animation and directing while GT is just nice art but kinda boring action. As much as people crap on super, the second half have a ton of really nice animation in and out of fighting despite having some of the least consistent artwork of all the series. GT looks nice in stills but just never really impresses in animation quality which is a shame for a series with such consistently good art.
thank you for covering GT as often as you do. many people seem scared to touch it for some reason and act like it’s the plague but it WAS a part of the original anime run and has things being referenced til this day
no problem, there's very little talk about the visual side of GT which makes it all the more interesting for me! The only challenge is to find a topic about the series that's interesting for a wide audience.
That's it. This is my first time watching your channel. You know what's coming, don't you, ForgottenRelics? It is mandatory that I say it at this point. Oh naurrr how ya goin? kanga, diiingooo babies
One thing that isn't talked a lot about GT: The soundtrack. The OST is one of the peak in the whole Dragon Ball series IMO. Every song is remarkable and honestly some are straight up bangers.
I like Shingo Ishikawa too. In fact, I have been taking a few screenshots of his work for a while now and I'm still trying to recreate his style of drawing.
Suggestions: Ever thought of analyzing some DB, DBZ, GT and DBS openings and not only the actual episode scenes? Or taking one element and comparing how the different big name animators do it? Like each one's best execution of ki charging up animation (the energy charge around their body, not a charge for an attack).
Shingo Ishikawa is my favourite animation supervisor on Z and loved his work on the Ledgic episode. SSJ3 or any character really, doesn't look nearly as cool as when he's drawing them.
Ill take GT over Super any day. Animation wasnt the best but the art , art style, character portrayal and concepts in sagas, felt like a coherent story that had heart.
I for one felt that GT has a lot of surprisingly great animation! The consistency seemed appropriate enough for a DB show. I much prefer GT's art style to Super's. Super as a whole, I had more complaints with the animation.
I really need to watch GT again - I actually liked it the first time around, understanding the complaints but not getting the hate. It was overall pretty solid if one kept an open mind, with some low points and a few major highs. Some have complained that Goku is featured too much, but because this was the "end" of the franchise, it makes sense that the final episodes would be about him. It'd be funny if someone made a GT sequel series, ignoring the sometimes-weird directions taken in Super and making GT the ideal experience it should have always been.
great vid. what's your thoughts on dr slump 97 if you've seen it? it was in the timeslot directly after gt, shares many staff, and i think the design philosophy is quite similar. the character designs from both could be the same show, other than the big head proportions in slump. i don't see anyone talking about slump 97 and it just recently (?) got subbed so im curious
I haven't seen it either outside some of the clips of the Dragon Ball crossover episode that Seigasha worked on. Your right tho that would be a fun topic. The trouble with niche stuff like that is how to spin in a way that's interesting for a wide audience. But thanks nonetheless, I'll write it down and see if something comes to mind in the coming days haha
great vid but slightly off-topic would it be possible for u to look at boruto for a bit. I don't watch it myself(dropped it a long time ago lol) but when I catch a clip on twitter or youtube even in the better animated sequences there's somethin off to me bout how they move. idk if it's the storyboardin or wut but they seem "stiff", "awkward", "flat"(?) even. idk wut word it is which is y I ask. I get that part of it might be cus it's mostly digital but that doesn't make sense to be the whole story cus that's most anime these days so ye. thx for the consideration
Same haha, i think i was around the 100-episode mark. And honestly I haven't been keeping up too much, but from what I know there's simply a lot of production issues with staff and time behind the scenes, leading to a lot of rushed and poorly produced work. But with most modern anime being stiff, I would have to know which shows specifically your thinking off to give a better answer. As we've had shows recently like Bocchi, DIY and Chainsawman which had a lot of loose animation. Ofc shows like that aren't the norm but TV animation has always been pretty stiff and basic, GT itself is a great lil example of that. Keep in mind paper is still very common so it's not really to do with animators using drawing tablets either. Although there is a big issue with overproduction currently, too much anime is being made and resources are stretched thinner than ever which has hurt the animation quality across a lot of shows. I can't really go to in-depth here, so i'll recommend a great write-up on it! -blog.sakugabooru.com/2019/08/31/the-fragmentation-of-anime-production-too-many-cooks-spoil-the-broth/
@@forgottenrelics1197 I'm very aware of the production issues the industry is currently dealin with. When it comes to boruto I'm not talkin bout the eps wit very obvi production issues. I mean that the times when the show isn't marred by that & the sakuga itself still looks off to me. It might be best if I pointed out a fight scene.
@@nightlydata2181 Oh all good then! And maybe sending them directly will be best. Because I remember a lot of loose action animation earlier in the series. Yamashita's stuff in particular is some of my favourite action in the franchise. -www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/198086 -www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/188937
@@nightlydata2181 im not on Relics level but I think i can take a crack at it. (edit fixed some typos and grammar) i think some of the poses just arent strong enough. like the line of action isnt all too dynamic. like when the red girl (i dont watch naruto sorry) is running, her first foot doesn't extend all the way out. if anything it feels like a running animation for a certain frame rate, but instead of actually drawing in slow mo (That would be done on ones or 2s with proper spacing) they instead just had the drawings sit for longer. The running isnt too bad when its at its intended framerate. Also her arms in that slow mo scene just... don't really move. It makes sense for it to not really move much at normal speed cus the idea is you can't see how fast shes actually running. But in slow mo there should def be some more bounce in that arm movement. When she rolls at the end too like u can't really tell whats going on, there isnt enough drawings to indicate which way shes rolling. It looks like its animated on 2s and 3s but the poses drawn are too far apart like on one frame u see her whole face, the next you see her back. Theres no connection. the lack of frames isn't being used to indicate speed either. or the big naked man kicks boruto, it's just an abrubt quick movement but no anticipation or wind up for the kick, nor any ease to really feel the effort it takes to kick someone into floating in the air. Again the pose really isn't strong either?? it all just happens? The big naked mans expressions aren't being stretched either, hes clearly making some sort of Exagerated Psychotic faces but theyre not being pushed. Ie in the close up right before red girl saves Boruto, the big mans eye is clearly squinting with a raised brow but there's no wrinkles or folds in the skin to really push that. his eye instead just looks smaller. Infact a lot of exprsssions in this can be pushed further. Boruto's face when getting kneed in the stomach is very neutral looking. And again the poses could lean on the dynamic side a bit. When he jumps and is about to punch, it needs more tilt, lean back into it more. the anticipation before he goes for the punch in this same shot is pretty weak imo. it just kinda.. slowly slides into it? again im not Relics and only have a hobby level understanding of the 12 Principles here. The run before the punch is also very meh? The arms arent extended so you can't even see the big man running, and it cuts away before you can even process what you just saw. Then the closeup of the run is just snappy, no real inbetweens. And when it zooms in its not actually animted. its just a still drawing with speed lines being slid across the screen to get an idea of the camera zooming in. Its only animation is at the end of the sequence, that last frame is a *smear* frame. so we go from still drawing of a fist to a smear. when boruto lands he stops a bit too early and abrubtly i think too, weakens the impact of the kick that literally sent him flying a few cuts prior. the pacing for cutaways in that 2nd link is kind of everywhere too imo. And when Red girl swoops in the shocked face of the big man is like.. the eyes are.. too low on the face? Like hes looking Up with his head, and his eyes looking down. but its not drawn properly. instead his Nose is the only thing facing up. while the face structure is very like... normal angle? and when he brings his head down it tilts a but i feel the arch between his upward facing shock to downward facing anger could be more clear. he kinda just comes straight down despite the tilt. The first one the most issue i have is again the running. It feels painfully slow despite the supposed speed? maybe theres too many drawings in this case? or the BG is moving way to slow? Like in general there seems to be some juxtaposition between character animation and the background. Maybe the foreshortening is a bit off too the arms seem further away than they actually should be. The drawings themselves seem to be very angular too, straight edges. last i remember Naruto the edges were rounder and soft. it doesnt feel loose compared to clips ive seen of older Naruto stuff Again I'm not Relics, im just a hobby animator and artist myself using what i know to figure out what could be wrong.
@@stephanos6128 HOLY FUCK THX! READIN THIS U DEF GOT MOST OF WUT I WUS SEEIN. Now that I think bout it I wonder y I couldn't articulate this myself since I've heard/seen the bulk of wut u said here before way too many times lol. but ye I feel u hit the nail on the head for me so thx so much. oh u might wanna edit ur comment for anyone else since there R a few grammatical errors they could be confused by. once again my sincerest thx
Goku vs Ledgic was the only fight in GT I genuinely liked. I remember when I did my watch through of GT it gave me a lot of hope. I was consistently let down afterwards, however.
So I'm watching Saint Seiya rn, I've never watched it before and I see no one has made a video of its animation. I think it would be interesting if you made a video that goes through the series' original run, or the Hades OVA since it's interesting how the animation is really good during the Sanctuary part just to fall down during Inferno and Elysion parts apparently because the director changed. I don't really know how can a director switch change a product's animation, so it would be cool if someone could explain it. It also happens with other anime such as the old HxH anime, so a more general view on the topic would be neat as well.
Since you’ve pretty much done a best and worse looking episode for Z, GT, and Super do you plan on doing one for the original Dragon Ball as well? I’m honestly kind of curious on what you would consider to be the best and worse animated episode of the original series. :3
hello, watched your video comparing action styles of Naruto and Dragon Ball, I think it would be cool if you compared newer Dragon Ball material (2018 Broly, Tournament Of Power) to older films, I think we've been seeing a change in style to facilitate more fluid motion
I've always thought that this is the one good fight in the whole of GT. Man I would have forgiven that show a lot easier if it had more good fight choreography
GT doesn't have a lot of Animation compared to the other DB series before or after it, but when it does, they really come off a lot more memorable, like Goku vs Ledgic. But it's still few and far between.
7:03 I remember this scene of omega being used nearly a dozen times between two episodes.
ahh could be bank animation, haven't seen those ep's in years so didn't realise
It was a good shot, they just wanted us to remember it😂
they use like 4 times in the same episode lol, man GT was strugglin with its budget
@@jbrfr94 More so tight deadlines, bank is a great time saver for every department. Especially in an era where each cel is hand painted and needs time to dry.
While GT didn’t have the best art and animation. I loved the art style. It felt like a continuation of Z. The characters felt older with the tans and the world just felt more gritty and lived in. The clean look in super makes it feel a little soulless imo.
Couldn't agree more
Honestly, I think GT was the most consistent out of all the series in regard to good art, but yeah the animation was pretty lackluster. How I wish we coulda got just on Studio Cockpit episode on GT :(
@@forgottenrelics1197 in some multiverse there is a 180 episodes version of GT animated by cockpit lol
I agree. Everything about super feels soulless and even when they speak. Super is garbage and ruined many characters from dragon ball z
@@xyoungdipsetx 🤓
this show looked better when I was a kid lmao
I found that with some shows too. Although there are some shows I go back and watch and they have much better animation than I remember. Sometimes I'm really impressed with them and wonder how this was done for a TV production
It sill better than Super.
Animation they are par. But artstyle farly superior in GT.
@@DrRhyhmWe can't keep pretending super's animation is bad anymore. Yes, majority of the time it's horrendous but when they put their all into it, it's spectacular. GT hardly has these moments; not to say they always have bad animation but Super's animation peak is way higher than GT's. Artstyle is definitely understandable though, they just had a better character designer.
@@DrRhyhm Animation is far better in Super than GT
@@someguydownthestreet206 if the majority of the time it is horrendous then it is bad, but yeah gt sucks dick
Literally just watched that exact episode last night lol. Ledgic had a cool move set, Goku snapping his swords was fire.
When I was a kid, I owned the GT cassette tape with the Ledgic fight in it and I remember rewatching it religiously. A few years ago I rewatched it to see if it still held up, since I don't ever hear it be talked about and I still thought it was a very very well animated fight, with everything you'd want from a Dragon Ball fight, but since I don't know the ins and outs of animation I couldn't tell you *why*, so it's really cathartic seeing you cover it. Just a shame that it's placed in one of the most disliked arcs of the series, with Ledgic only having minor foreshadowing before this and never returning, so despite his great design and techniques, he gets forgotten. Hell I forget his name often myself, as much as I wish I didn't
I know right? Kinda interesting to find some quality stuff like this sandwiched in between and yeah it wasn't until making this video actually I remembered how many neat techniques he had!
Gt's art is great imo. I love the way the world is designed in the show between earth and the various worlds they visit
Can we just talk about how cool Ledgic is? He deserves so much more love
Ledgic was one of the coolest characters from GT. Wish he appeared more.
Gt had a lot of underrated characters
i dont know why they didnt include him in budokai tenkaichi 3 tbh
Hey man you trying something new with the way you structure your sentences or how you deliver them?
It seems like lately that's changed up just a little bit and it feels more energetic it's a nice change.
As always nice to see you breakdown animation keep up the good work!
i have, tryna be more loose and not be so mono·tone
and thank ya :)
@@forgottenrelics1197 I noticed the difference too, i really like it. Felt more personal and natural.
You should *Legend of Kora*, especially season 3. The action is so underrated
Both Korra and ATLA have amazing animation in most episodes. The coreography in that series honestly astounding for a TV series. The incorporation of martial arts with bending with great art and fluid movement.
True, "basic" fights were so common in DB even before GT that I don't remember people complaining XD
And the characters are usually so well-done basic execution isn't enough for supporting the "GT had bad art" trope.
Battle-coreography aside, GT looks way better than Super. No cap. With Yuya Takahashi's pieces being one of the few and sparce exceptions.
people say GT had bad art? i'm guessing that's because fans found it different to Z and labelled it as "bad" or somethin
Yes and Super has better animation overall, although most of the times it was mediocre
@@forgottenrelics1197 Unsure of the reason why, but there're many tropes about GT... it won't surprise me if people simply assume this due to GT reputation lol
I feel like we need a video based on SS4's debut vs Baby. That episode, imo anyway, is the only one in GT besides EP5 that has both great art and great animation consistent throughout the entire episode. There is a reason that every single frame from this episode is either a TH-cam clip with millions of views or a wallpaper.
Even as a kid i could recognize how non existent the animation was in GT. Looked great alot of the time but it "moved" in such a boring, stilted, and uninteresting way
Yeah, i specifically remember when i was 15 watching the general Rilldo and feeling so bored
@@forgottenrelics1197 i was 10 years old in ghana watching that. it was the only cartoon that would play after i got home from school and they kept REPEATING THOSE FEW EPISODES. It drove me insane, especially since it was so boring and took so long. Memories
@@ItsOver9000Productions wonder what the story is behind that haha
Its interesting to see the difference between Super and GT.
GT had better art but sluggish animation
Super had better animation but sluggish art.(until the end, kind of)
Its an interesting dive into animation direction.
Yep they very much leaned on two opposite extremes. There is nothing in GT as abysmal as the lows of the Rof arc like ep 24, at the same time there's nothing even close to ToP's best or even the Future Trunks arc for that matter.
disagree, super has bad art AND animation
@@edsontorrontegui9491 bro it really depends on the arc honestly the movie retellings are shit and the animation through u6 tournament is meh while the art is garbage, the animation gets good during Goku black arc and the art while not pretty is serviceable, TOP though is mostly great on the animation department with some being the best in terms of pure animation in the whole franchise and the art improvement is noticeable and in some episodes like goku's fight with kale, caulifula and kefla, the final parts of the tournament has good art (even though it's not the best in terms of the whole franchise).
@@edsontorrontegui9491 exactly Super has trash animation and art
@@jdrmanmusiqking how was the animation in the ToP and parts of Zasmasu’s arc trash exactly?? It was literally some of the best animation in the entire series
Wake up Bulma, new ForgottenRelics.
the beast uploads again
the monthly upload haha
GT will always have a special place in my heart because of Bulla. 🥰
Pedo
I forgot she was even in that show.
@@jasonone8726 I could never forget her.
Ahem...... she's 12
no offense but what's so good about bulla'???@@ImInLoveWithBulla
Time to step into the Grand Tour!!
also, that hiroyuki kakudou guy you pointed out is an amazing storyboard artist! he directed the first digimon anime and had some really great eerie and creative stuff in digimon ghost game as episode director/sb (or just sb).
ahhh interesting, he's a name that doesn't enter the series until GT so I was completely unfamiliar with him. really cool to know what he went on to do!
5:27 Aw man not the Uchiyama cut 😭
Love your videos man, I'm not someone who can naturally find all these flaws so it's really interesting seeing a breakdown of scenes that I thought felt unnatural but was just unsure why, quality stuff
Someone in the anime staff definitely watch star trek since Ledgic design is so close to a ferengi.
Thanks for doing this fight, I feel like this is an underrated fight.
5:49 I forgot he makes that face!
It caught me so off guard!
Great breakdown mane🍻
You really did just hit Goku with the "NO DRIP, NO BITCHES" huh?
I had the VHS tape with Goku vs Ledgic on it, and I would go through the entire tape just to watch the fight at the end.
Would be cool to know your take on some Saint Seiya fights scenes. Generally, I would say they are more choppy than most of Dragonball but there are some amazing fights, especially against Golden Saints. I would say, the beatdown Gemini Saga gives Seiya and Ikki has some crazy nice effects and animation.
I love how gt looks
This perfectly puts something that I've struggled to articulate about GT. The color pallets and choice of shots is downright breathtaking most of the time. The animation? Not so much.
Coincidentally, it makes it great second monitor content, even in Japanese.
love your videos bro
I really wish more Dragon Ball youtubers would do MORE stuff with GT. Like with all the "What if's" and everything....but they ALL go into fucking DBS. Not a single one goes into the realm of GT & beyond. In the original story, DBS was not a thing. Completely glossed over. No matter how much people want to look the other way, GT IS part of DB whether they like it or not. But these cowards avoid it like the plague or something. I'm glad some people are talking about it though. I just wish there was more.
MistareFusion is currently doing a pre in depth episode by episode breakdown of GT currently, defs recommend
I need more GT fight breakdowns
3:44 "What colour is your impact frame?"
This sequence was the first I watched from DBGT. It was showed on TMC Monte Carlo to showcase what GT was. I was in awe, and thought DBGT was really nicely done. Well, too bad very little of GT's animation gets up to this level.
You have earned my subscription 🫡 I adore GT despite all of its flaws and ledgic is such a unique character I wish he was in games. GT had everything it needed to be amazing, just execution was somehow botched. But I see the vision
Bruh why couldn't they have animated the goku vs baby fight.
It would have been the gt equivalent of the blue goku vs goku black fight in the future.
yeah, the ledgic fight, animation and choreography wise was genuinely more interesting than what i remember of the baby fight haha
@ForgottenRelics the baby fight wasn't bad persay. but it wasn't anything special. Like baby punching goku felt way to slow lots of repeats. But had sprinkles of cool frames and moments like goku throwing baby and tanking the revenge death ball twice. But the moment to moment choreography was meh
Ledgic was pretty sick
Watching basically all of DB recently really does show that while GT had really consistent art and animation, some of the most consistent, it never hit the highs of OG, Z, and Super. Each of those series have far more segments of really good animation and directing while GT is just nice art but kinda boring action. As much as people crap on super, the second half have a ton of really nice animation in and out of fighting despite having some of the least consistent artwork of all the series. GT looks nice in stills but just never really impresses in animation quality which is a shame for a series with such consistently good art.
I swear it's hard for me to find a well-animated GT episode, even then, it's mostly ki blasts everywhere
thank you for covering GT as often as you do. many people seem scared to touch it for some reason and act like it’s the plague but it WAS a part of the original anime run and has things being referenced til this day
Naruto and one piece have major forms referencing gt
no problem, there's very little talk about the visual side of GT which makes it all the more interesting for me! The only challenge is to find a topic about the series that's interesting for a wide audience.
Can't wait for Gas to be animated
Man your videos are so entertaining
That's it. This is my first time watching your channel. You know what's coming, don't you, ForgottenRelics? It is mandatory that I say it at this point.
Oh naurrr how ya goin? kanga, diiingooo babies
God Ledgic (or however you spell it) is such a cool and unique character
I'm still pissed that they didn't bring him back, especially since he somehow knew about Saiyans, I don't know why they didn't go into that. 😂
Honestly Naoto Shishida is one of my favorite animators when it comes to action, it looks so smooth specifically for that time
One thing that isn't talked a lot about GT: The soundtrack. The OST is one of the peak in the whole Dragon Ball series IMO. Every song is remarkable and honestly some are straight up bangers.
The Japanese soundtrack? Yeah, the soundtrack was very unique. The Genki Dama theme is my favorite.
Eh it's mostly renditions of the opening...
I like Shingo Ishikawa too. In fact, I have been taking a few screenshots of his work for a while now and I'm still trying to recreate his style of drawing.
he's a great artist aye!
Suggestions: Ever thought of analyzing some DB, DBZ, GT and DBS openings and not only the actual episode scenes? Or taking one element and comparing how the different big name animators do it? Like each one's best execution of ki charging up animation (the energy charge around their body, not a charge for an attack).
Shingo Ishikawa is my favourite animation supervisor on Z and loved his work on the Ledgic episode. SSJ3 or any character really, doesn't look nearly as cool as when he's drawing them.
a very overlooked name
@@forgottenrelics1197 He actually did Freezas tantrum in Fukkatsu no F I think, because those vains on Freeza look like Uub's when he's fighting Goku.
Watching this fight makes me think of a certsin super manga charatcer with the same color outfit and skin
Dragon Ball usually had good still shots with characters usually being well drawn and on model but animation was usually below average
It was basically the opposite of Super
I will always take art over animation, GT looks so much nicer than super
Ledgic deserves canon.
Ill take GT over Super any day. Animation wasnt the best but the art , art style, character portrayal and concepts in sagas, felt like a coherent story that had heart.
Love these Vids 😂
video essay guys love having an adventure time rantsona sitting on a couch huh
good video though
I for one felt that GT has a lot of surprisingly great animation! The consistency seemed appropriate enough for a DB show. I much prefer GT's art style to Super's. Super as a whole, I had more complaints with the animation.
Have you done an animation breakdown of Jin Rho
That thumbnail of Goku actually isn’t even all that bad and actually pretty good imo
It's a great drawing, it's the actual animation that's bad like how the characters move
@@forgottenrelics1197 yeah the animation was awful at times so stiff and boring compared to dbz
@@andrewgarfield9898 much of Z is stiff to tbh
@@zelohendricks51animation in z was inconsistent asf but when it was good it was amazing but when it was bad it was straight up bad
I really need to watch GT again - I actually liked it the first time around, understanding the complaints but not getting the hate. It was overall pretty solid if one kept an open mind, with some low points and a few major highs. Some have complained that Goku is featured too much, but because this was the "end" of the franchise, it makes sense that the final episodes would be about him. It'd be funny if someone made a GT sequel series, ignoring the sometimes-weird directions taken in Super and making GT the ideal experience it should have always been.
another great video
thank you 🙏
There’s animation car chase that’s really good. riding bean 1989 and gunsmith cats 1995. Love the videos and the channel
Gotens fight against baby was my favorite,then I rewatched it and was so so disappointed
GT bad and u will never tell me twice 💀💀💀💀💀💀
great vid. what's your thoughts on dr slump 97 if you've seen it? it was in the timeslot directly after gt, shares many staff, and i think the design philosophy is quite similar. the character designs from both could be the same show, other than the big head proportions in slump. i don't see anyone talking about slump 97 and it just recently (?) got subbed so im curious
I haven't seen it either outside some of the clips of the Dragon Ball crossover episode that Seigasha worked on. Your right tho that would be a fun topic. The trouble with niche stuff like that is how to spin in a way that's interesting for a wide audience. But thanks nonetheless, I'll write it down and see if something comes to mind in the coming days haha
i actually like that scene with Goku vs his son's (I'm not gonna defend it i just like it especially the kicking part)
Jeez bro I thought the animation was good when I was kid
ngl id love to see FR cover Hajime No Ippos animation
You should talk about Goku vs Nova Shenron’s animation
Great!! 👏👏👏🔥💫
Can you please do a video on The Animatrix?
great vid but slightly off-topic would it be possible for u to look at boruto for a bit. I don't watch it myself(dropped it a long time ago lol) but when I catch a clip on twitter or youtube even in the better animated sequences there's somethin off to me bout how they move. idk if it's the storyboardin or wut but they seem "stiff", "awkward", "flat"(?) even. idk wut word it is which is y I ask. I get that part of it might be cus it's mostly digital but that doesn't make sense to be the whole story cus that's most anime these days so ye. thx for the consideration
Same haha, i think i was around the 100-episode mark. And honestly I haven't been keeping up too much, but from what I know there's simply a lot of production issues with staff and time behind the scenes, leading to a lot of rushed and poorly produced work.
But with most modern anime being stiff, I would have to know which shows specifically your thinking off to give a better answer. As we've had shows recently like Bocchi, DIY and Chainsawman which had a lot of loose animation. Ofc shows like that aren't the norm but TV animation has always been pretty stiff and basic, GT itself is a great lil example of that.
Keep in mind paper is still very common so it's not really to do with animators using drawing tablets either. Although there is a big issue with overproduction currently, too much anime is being made and resources are stretched thinner than ever which has hurt the animation quality across a lot of shows. I can't really go to in-depth here, so i'll recommend a great write-up on it!
-blog.sakugabooru.com/2019/08/31/the-fragmentation-of-anime-production-too-many-cooks-spoil-the-broth/
@@forgottenrelics1197 I'm very aware of the production issues the industry is currently dealin with. When it comes to boruto I'm not talkin bout the eps wit very obvi production issues. I mean that the times when the show isn't marred by that & the sakuga itself still looks off to me. It might be best if I pointed out a fight scene.
@@nightlydata2181 Oh all good then! And maybe sending them directly will be best. Because I remember a lot of loose action animation earlier in the series. Yamashita's stuff in particular is some of my favourite action in the franchise.
-www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/198086
-www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/188937
@@nightlydata2181 im not on Relics level but I think i can take a crack at it. (edit fixed some typos and grammar)
i think some of the poses just arent strong enough. like the line of action isnt all too dynamic. like when the red girl (i dont watch naruto sorry) is running, her first foot doesn't extend all the way out. if anything it feels like a running animation for a certain frame rate, but instead of actually drawing in slow mo (That would be done on ones or 2s with proper spacing) they instead just had the drawings sit for longer. The running isnt too bad when its at its intended framerate.
Also her arms in that slow mo scene just... don't really move. It makes sense for it to not really move much at normal speed cus the idea is you can't see how fast shes actually running. But in slow mo there should def be some more bounce in that arm movement.
When she rolls at the end too like u can't really tell whats going on, there isnt enough drawings to indicate which way shes rolling. It looks like its animated on 2s and 3s but the poses drawn are too far apart like on one frame u see her whole face, the next you see her back. Theres no connection. the lack of frames isn't being used to indicate speed either.
or the big naked man kicks boruto, it's just an abrubt quick movement but no anticipation or wind up for the kick, nor any ease to really feel the effort it takes to kick someone into floating in the air. Again the pose really isn't strong either?? it all just happens? The big naked mans expressions aren't being stretched either, hes clearly making some sort of Exagerated Psychotic faces but theyre not being pushed. Ie in the close up right before red girl saves Boruto, the big mans eye is clearly squinting with a raised brow but there's no wrinkles or folds in the skin to really push that. his eye instead just looks smaller. Infact a lot of exprsssions in this can be pushed further. Boruto's face when getting kneed in the stomach is very neutral looking.
And again the poses could lean on the dynamic side a bit. When he jumps and is about to punch, it needs more tilt, lean back into it more. the anticipation before he goes for the punch in this same shot is pretty weak imo. it just kinda.. slowly slides into it? again im not Relics and only have a hobby level understanding of the 12 Principles here. The run before the punch is also very meh? The arms arent extended so you can't even see the big man running, and it cuts away before you can even process what you just saw. Then the closeup of the run is just snappy, no real inbetweens.
And when it zooms in its not actually animted. its just a still drawing with speed lines being slid across the screen to get an idea of the camera zooming in. Its only animation is at the end of the sequence, that last frame is a *smear* frame. so we go from still drawing of a fist to a smear.
when boruto lands he stops a bit too early and abrubtly i think too, weakens the impact of the kick that literally sent him flying a few cuts prior.
the pacing for cutaways in that 2nd link is kind of everywhere too imo.
And when Red girl swoops in the shocked face of the big man is like.. the eyes are.. too low on the face? Like hes looking Up with his head, and his eyes looking down. but its not drawn properly. instead his Nose is the only thing facing up. while the face structure is very like... normal angle? and when he brings his head down it tilts a but i feel the arch between his upward facing shock to downward facing anger could be more clear. he kinda just comes straight down despite the tilt.
The first one the most issue i have is again the running. It feels painfully slow despite the supposed speed? maybe theres too many drawings in this case? or the BG is moving way to slow? Like in general there seems to be some juxtaposition between character animation and the background. Maybe the foreshortening is a bit off too the arms seem further away than they actually should be.
The drawings themselves seem to be very angular too, straight edges. last i remember Naruto the edges were rounder and soft. it doesnt feel loose compared to clips ive seen of older Naruto stuff
Again I'm not Relics, im just a hobby animator and artist myself using what i know to figure out what could be wrong.
@@stephanos6128 HOLY FUCK THX! READIN THIS U DEF GOT MOST OF WUT I WUS SEEIN. Now that I think bout it I wonder y I couldn't articulate this myself since I've heard/seen the bulk of wut u said here before way too many times lol. but ye I feel u hit the nail on the head for me so thx so much. oh u might wanna edit ur comment for anyone else since there R a few grammatical errors they could be confused by. once again my sincerest thx
Goku vs Ledgic was the only fight in GT I genuinely liked. I remember when I did my watch through of GT it gave me a lot of hope. I was consistently let down afterwards, however.
SSJ4 Goku vs Baby and then that 4 star Dragon Nova?
@@jasonone8726 those slow ass janky fights?
So I'm watching Saint Seiya rn, I've never watched it before and I see no one has made a video of its animation. I think it would be interesting if you made a video that goes through the series' original run, or the Hades OVA since it's interesting how the animation is really good during the Sanctuary part just to fall down during Inferno and Elysion parts apparently because the director changed. I don't really know how can a director switch change a product's animation, so it would be cool if someone could explain it. It also happens with other anime such as the old HxH anime, so a more general view on the topic would be neat as well.
Tbh this the only fight I liked in the whole series.
Always liked Ledgic he was cool af
SSJ 4 Was A Primal Introduction 😂
Since you’ve pretty much done a best and worse looking episode for Z, GT, and Super do you plan on doing one for the original Dragon Ball as well? I’m honestly kind of curious on what you would consider to be the best and worse animated episode of the original series. :3
Do you still do art features? If so I was wondering what the hashtag was
Gas also summons weapons
I swear i remember seeing a youtuber talking about this fight and saying its "bad" or "okay-ish"
maybe MistareFusion? he's the only one i can think of currently covering GT
Yuya Takahashi (partially) saved Super
Get GT's art consistency + Z's peak artstyles and supervision and you don't even need greatly animated movement
The art is amazing but the animation is something else
Would anticipation art work on ultra instinct goku since his face doesn't really change a lot during fights.
@@jkjordon1 You aren't exactly wrong his face is either serious, frustrated, or yelling.
I hated the color shades of G.T.
Good video bruh
Gt was awful but had so many tiny little bits of goodness sprinkled in
hello, watched your video comparing action styles of Naruto and Dragon Ball, I think it would be cool if you compared newer Dragon Ball material (2018 Broly, Tournament Of Power) to older films, I think we've been seeing a change in style to facilitate more fluid motion
I've always thought that this is the one good fight in the whole of GT. Man I would have forgiven that show a lot easier if it had more good fight choreography
And what about super android 17 hair animation?
Og dragon ball had the best animation it was so smooth
Fuera bueno que pusieras subtítulos en español
disponible ahora 👍
@@forgottenrelics1197 gracias
Bro you should talk about dragonball deliverance peak fan fiction
GT doesn't have a lot of Animation compared to the other DB series before or after it, but when it does, they really come off a lot more memorable, like Goku vs Ledgic. But it's still few and far between.
gonna go over yyh some day?
The bootleg ajay is back less goooooooo
wow!! great!
Hey I'm a HUGE Fan of DBGT
How do you know all of this dragon ball animation knowledge?
i mean that shows how strong goku got in GT he so strong he's barely animated