Wow, what a treat. I just recently read SW again and really enjoyed it-those naval engagements are so well done! Plus Korel, Kyle, RILLISH!! So much good stuff! Great collab gents!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think it might be his most underrated. I think this is right up there with his best. That said, buckle up for OST-you’re in for a treat! ✊❤️💪
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am very sure you are going to love Blood and Bone. Once again a fascinating setting that is almost completely unexplored in Erikson's books, a hefty dose of Esslemont's horror. He delves into another magical tradition. And he manages to include a nice little shout-out to the wonderful Wizard of Oz.
@@gerdforster883 That all sounds awesome to me, Gerd! Not that I needed encouragement, but what you’re describing has me even more excited to move on in the series.
Well, at least there’s one video on TH-cam today in which I’m properly dressed! This was undoubtedly one of the most fun BookTube discussions I’ve had, so thank you, my friend! Now, the big question that remains: Where are we putting your umlaut?
That through-line with Ivanr and the boy is one of the saddest things I've ever read in my entire life. The small stories that revealed the history of invaders and the Lady's worship in Korelri made up a long drawn out howl of terror and pain - kind of a parallel to the pain of the Crippled God itself maybe? Fantastic video and analysis once again gentleman. ICEs skill with atmosphere and themes is surely on display in this volume.
Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment. That story thread is really poignant, and it works so well thematically, as well as adds a nice counterpoint to the arc of that thread. I genuinely enjoy how we get multiple angles on the theme without the book feeling didactic or sermonising.
@@ACriticalDragon it is a great strength of ICEs I think, his ability to display all these different perspectives and have them all feel genuine and authentic. Some characters are cynical about their faith, others deadly serious, but all seem to come by it honestly, that is to say belieavably.
Just finished SW late last night. What a fantastic, deep, thought provoking book. It is not just the themes explored; it is the way ICE plays with our emotions. And your conversation was a catalyst to reflect even more deeply into this wonderful book. Thank you 🙏.
I read somewhere that Joseph of the plates and Mormons, told his followers that the natives were the original people of Israel who fled the holy land so they weren’t in fact native at all. I bring this up because our minds will often twist itself all up in order to not be the one in the wrong.
Yes! Such great questions this book talks about. That dividing line between the 'I' and the world, us versus them, betrayal versus loyalty, protection versus holding back . And how those lines are formed and blurred. Big questions handled well once again in a Malazan novel. Completely on board with all your enthusiasm for this one 😎
Everyone: Hey, Esslemont! Why do all your books have ships in the cover??? Esslemont: Gee, I've got no idea, ask the publisher Also Esslemont: *lemme put the most engaging and breathtaking naval battle in fantasy into this book...* 😂😂😂
Great video loved every minute of it. Also Dr. Chase hit on a connection to a truth that's revealed in a later book. It is a spoiler so I can't say what it is but i can't believe he caught it this book. Thanks guys
Just finished it yesterday and I have to say that I was so delighted by this book. Such a great new setting and it adds so much to the world building; the riders, the wall etc. ! I also read the first Bauchelain story on the same day (loved it) as a breather and now its time for DoD.
Are you also reading both authors in publication order ? While I am reading a bit more right now, it tends to go to nearly zero in september and October, because of the exams in that timeframe and I am not 100% sure if I will finish DoD, TCG and Ians 3 Novels until then, so you might still be faster ;) I already pre ordered Erikson's next book, but plan on reading the 2 prequel series first, so I am pretty sure that you will read/discuss the new one before me ^^ Ps: So far I really enjoy DoD, but that start with the children was already really depressing (not to say that this is bad)
@@kingplunger1 we are slightly out of sequence. We are essentially doing two books a month, but not quite in publication order. But this is a reread for MBotF and NotME for me, so reading the chronological sequence is not that important for me. Philip is rereading MBotF and first read of NotME.
I found this meeting of the minds to be both extremely entertaining and informative. Chase and Canavan are masters of conversation and literary analysis.
Great discussion AP! Stonewielder has been my favorite so far in the series and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to yall chat about it! Very excited to watch your video with ICE!
AP, have you seen the movie City of God? When I think of child soldiers, this is what resonates with me.. Loved the conversation once again. I applaud your strength of character not to succumb to the tank top insurrection. Waistcoats Forever!
@@ACriticalDragon Probably more from he's physical description rather than personality wize,in my mind's eye the picture of Druss that was in their comes up when thinking of Greymane.
I think more than any other, this discussion encapsulates all of my feelings and reasons for loving this series. At the same time it draws attention to the faults of so many preaching, poorly written genre books attempting to tell me their answers with all the subtlety of a brick to the face.
And Crimson Tide took footage from The Hunt for Red October and just repurposed it to save money. The Hunt for Red October had some great submarine fights. Really atmospheric. Of course Das Boot was ALL about the atmosphere. It was incredibly claustrophobic.
I happen to love this book and couldn’t help but parallel a lot of the thing I read and or interviews I saw of Oppenheimer. At first he was lauded as a near god. He was the destroyer of worlds who ended the war. But as the “fallout” became more evident, all these people’s loss of life sat on his conscience. This is what I thought of when listening to greymanes almost inner dialogue
So I finally finished reading this book earlier this morning. Started back in September of 23, I’m ashamed to say. Not the books fault, I got sucked into some computer RPGs that were released in the fall. Anyway, I did like the story in this one. Sometime I did have an issue keeping the names straigh. Banith beneth etc Thought that torture / vivisection scene with Iron Bars was awesome, especially when he killed his torturer I figured out early on (or suspected) that Warren (or was it Warran) was actually shadowthrone. So what happened with greymane? Is he another one of those underwater guardians similar to Brys Beddick? That scene at the end with the folks in the boat seeing the figure underwater grasping the sword - I was getting the impression that was supposed to be greymane
We all approach reading in our own way, and we all pick up different information when we read. Something that is obvious to me may be obscure or unknowable to someone else, and vice versa.
@@ACriticalDragon yeah I was wondering what the connection between the Fall and the rest of it was too and at the end I thought TCG was just cannibalizing the lady for her power, I didn't realize it came from the Fall. I'm just a bit thick sometimes 😅
I have issues with the stormwall being very similar to the wall in a song of ice and fire. The differences are very minute, and with the story of the wall and riders being largely enclosed in this one novel, i did not really feel the weight as much as I think I was intended to. I was also hoping for some sort of tie in with our guy in Tavore’s army, but that remains a mystery I suppose.
@@ACriticalDragon in modern fantasy AP, you cannot deny the similarities between the stormwall and the wall. Keeping an alien race out, the explicit use of cold and winter, the prisoner army, misunderstanding the purpose of the alien race.
I don't. But the concept was in their game from the 1970s. It, and Martin's wall, are very much inspired by the Great Wall of China. Martin's vision is the most well known and rightly so, but that wasn't an issue I had with it because I was familiar with the trope prior to reading A Song of Ice and Fire.
@@ACriticalDragon fair enough, I have no idea what was in their game and I can only go off of published material and compare. No doubt the “big wall” idea comes from China, but when it’s application bears similarities so strong, it’s worth pointing out. It’s hard to miss.
@@ACriticalDragon thank you for responding, I really didn’t expect it from a year old video. Unrelated, but why didn’t the riders go around the wall? Presumably their goal was the pieces of Kaminsod, the stormwall doesn’t fully encircle korel/fist. After X amount of years participating in “the lady’s” sacrificial ritual of killing guys on the wall, why didn’t they find an alternate route? They got to Fist sea at the end pretty quickly
It’s so disappointing that you don’t understand the etymology of your own name. P’rofessor Fireball is of course an elision, following the important dogma of apostrophes. It’s a shortened version of Pyrofessor Fireball. If you must add an umlaut, that would of course go over the a in Fireball, following after the great tradition established by the New Jersey ice cream company.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh wow. I had no idea! I've always loved these videos, but now I'm extra extra excited to see B&B & assail for the horror and reveals! B&B scared the pants off me :laughing: EDIT: BAH!!! I forgot about OST! For whatever reason, that story really hooked me. Maybe because of the history of two cultures that I have really come to appreciate.
I think more than any other, this discussion encapsulates all of my feelings and reasons for loving this series. At the same time it draws attention to the faults of so many preaching, poorly written genre books attempting to tell me their answers with all the subtlety of a brick to the face.
Hi Joseph, thanks for watching, I am glad that you enjoyed the video. There will always be an audience for more direct books, but personally I prefer these authors like Esslemont, who trust in the reader more, and present us with a subtler text.
Wow, what a treat. I just recently read SW again and really enjoyed it-those naval engagements are so well done! Plus Korel, Kyle, RILLISH!! So much good stuff! Great collab gents!
This is my favorite Esslemont book so far, Iskar, and I’ve loved every one of them!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think it might be his most underrated. I think this is right up there with his best. That said, buckle up for OST-you’re in for a treat! ✊❤️💪
@@IskarJarak My seatbelt is locked!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am very sure you are going to love Blood and Bone. Once again a fascinating setting that is almost completely unexplored in Erikson's books, a hefty dose of Esslemont's horror. He delves into another magical tradition. And he manages to include a nice little shout-out to the wonderful Wizard of Oz.
@@gerdforster883 That all sounds awesome to me, Gerd! Not that I needed encouragement, but what you’re describing has me even more excited to move on in the series.
Well, at least there’s one video on TH-cam today in which I’m properly dressed! This was undoubtedly one of the most fun BookTube discussions I’ve had, so thank you, my friend! Now, the big question that remains: Where are we putting your umlaut?
In german it's already there: Prof. Feuerbälle :D
@@aeliriaesande2882 Perfect!!!
@@aeliriaesande2882 Not temperamentsbolzen?
Hey, none of you are touching my umlaut. That is private.
@@ACriticalDragon A bit sensitive, Fireballs?
That through-line with Ivanr and the boy is one of the saddest things I've ever read in my entire life. The small stories that revealed the history of invaders and the Lady's worship in Korelri made up a long drawn out howl of terror and pain - kind of a parallel to the pain of the Crippled God itself maybe?
Fantastic video and analysis once again gentleman. ICEs skill with atmosphere and themes is surely on display in this volume.
Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment. That story thread is really poignant, and it works so well thematically, as well as adds a nice counterpoint to the arc of that thread.
I genuinely enjoy how we get multiple angles on the theme without the book feeling didactic or sermonising.
@@ACriticalDragon it is a great strength of ICEs I think, his ability to display all these different perspectives and have them all feel genuine and authentic. Some characters are cynical about their faith, others deadly serious, but all seem to come by it honestly, that is to say belieavably.
Just finished SW late last night. What a fantastic, deep, thought provoking book. It is not just the themes explored; it is the way ICE plays with our emotions. And your conversation was a catalyst to reflect even more deeply into this wonderful book. Thank you 🙏.
You are very welcome. It is always so nice to hear that the discussions have been helpful or interesting. It is always great to hear from you.
“Or European expansion into Ireland.”
Is what I was waiting for.
Many people are waiting on that.
@@ACriticalDragon Just not the Irish.
I read somewhere that Joseph of the plates and Mormons, told his followers that the natives were the original people of Israel who fled the holy land so they weren’t in fact native at all. I bring this up because our minds will often twist itself all up in order to not be the one in the wrong.
Yes! Such great questions this book talks about. That dividing line between the 'I' and the world, us versus them, betrayal versus loyalty, protection versus holding back . And how those lines are formed and blurred.
Big questions handled well once again in a Malazan novel.
Completely on board with all your enthusiasm for this one 😎
Big questions, lots of illustrated examples.... But no answers. Isn't there a teacher's edition somewhere that has the answers in the back?
@@ACriticalDragon
You tell us, you've got all editions and a hotline with the authors lol 😂😉
Everyone: Hey, Esslemont! Why do all your books have ships in the cover???
Esslemont: Gee, I've got no idea, ask the publisher
Also Esslemont: *lemme put the most engaging and breathtaking naval battle in fantasy into this book...*
😂😂😂
Any guess for The Jhistal? 🤣🤣
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Why, of course Paul... Jhistal ship with First Officer Young Young Mallick Rel 😛
@@oniflrog4487 What, no mountain vista?
Only if it is a gelid ochre vista.
@@ACriticalDragon Ja, gut one.
Great video loved every minute of it. Also Dr. Chase hit on a connection to a truth that's revealed in a later book. It is a spoiler so I can't say what it is but i can't believe he caught it this book. Thanks guys
I was very careful to try not to react to that when he said it... But I was impressed too.
There is something Fëanorian about the Crimson Guard.
Excellent comparison! That’s even better than Ahab and Roland.
That is a great point, thank you.
Just finished it yesterday and I have to say that I was so delighted by this book. Such a great new setting and it adds so much to the world building; the riders, the wall etc. ! I also read the first Bauchelain story on the same day (loved it) as a breather and now its time for DoD.
Enjoy DoD, and I am glad that you enjoyed this one.
At this rate you will pass me on the reread before I can get finished.
Are you also reading both authors in publication order ? While I am reading a bit more right now, it tends to go to nearly zero in september and October, because of the exams in that timeframe and I am not 100% sure if I will finish DoD, TCG and Ians 3 Novels until then, so you might still be faster ;) I already pre ordered Erikson's next book, but plan on reading the 2 prequel series first, so I am pretty sure that you will read/discuss the new one before me ^^ Ps: So far I really enjoy DoD, but that start with the children was already really depressing (not to say that this is bad)
@@kingplunger1 we are slightly out of sequence. We are essentially doing two books a month, but not quite in publication order. But this is a reread for MBotF and NotME for me, so reading the chronological sequence is not that important for me. Philip is rereading MBotF and first read of NotME.
Let the games begin! The spoiler chat!
I hope that you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching and commenting. It is very appreciated.
I found this meeting of the minds to be both extremely entertaining and informative. Chase and Canavan are masters of conversation and literary analysis.
That is exceptionally kind of you to say. Thanks for watching. I am glad that you enjoyed the video.
Great discussion AP! Stonewielder has been my favorite so far in the series and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to yall chat about it! Very excited to watch your video with ICE!
Glad you enjoyed it. I am going to try to get Esslemont back to talk about a few other topics as well.
I don’t think the world at large has *ever* wanted complex or uncertain answers to its questions.
The difference between want and need laid bare.
AP, have you seen the movie City of God?
When I think of child soldiers, this is what resonates with me.. Loved the conversation once again. I applaud your strength of character not to succumb to the tank top insurrection. Waistcoats Forever!
When you are outgunned then why engage?
A sartorial flanking was necessary.
😁
I can't think of Greymane without thinking of Druss from Gemmells books..
Huh... I never pictured a connection between Greymane and Druss.
I always got a slightly psychotic Gimli vibe from Druss.
@@ACriticalDragon Probably more from he's physical description rather than personality wize,in my mind's eye the picture of Druss that was in their comes up when thinking of Greymane.
Coulda gone even longer. Enjoyed it! On to book 4 😎
I think more than any other, this discussion encapsulates all of my feelings and reasons for loving this series. At the same time it draws attention to the faults of so many preaching, poorly written genre books attempting to tell me their answers with all the subtlety of a brick to the face.
The only naval battle on screen done well are Submarine movies/battles eg: Das Boot, or The Hunt for Red October.
And Crimson Tide took footage from The Hunt for Red October and just repurposed it to save money.
The Hunt for Red October had some great submarine fights. Really atmospheric. Of course Das Boot was ALL about the atmosphere. It was incredibly claustrophobic.
I happen to love this book and couldn’t help but parallel a lot of the thing I read and or interviews I saw of Oppenheimer. At first he was lauded as a near god. He was the destroyer of worlds who ended the war. But as the “fallout” became more evident, all these people’s loss of life sat on his conscience. This is what I thought of when listening to greymanes almost inner dialogue
So I finally finished reading this book earlier this morning. Started back in September of 23, I’m ashamed to say.
Not the books fault, I got sucked into some computer RPGs that were released in the fall.
Anyway, I did like the story in this one. Sometime I did have an issue keeping the names straigh. Banith beneth etc
Thought that torture / vivisection scene with Iron Bars was awesome, especially when he killed his torturer
I figured out early on (or suspected) that Warren (or was it Warran) was actually shadowthrone.
So what happened with greymane? Is he another one of those underwater guardians similar to Brys Beddick? That scene at the end with the folks in the boat seeing the figure underwater grasping the sword - I was getting the impression that was supposed to be greymane
AP canavan says it's absolutely clear. and I'm over here thinking oh so that was what was going on now I get it
We all approach reading in our own way, and we all pick up different information when we read. Something that is obvious to me may be obscure or unknowable to someone else, and vice versa.
@@ACriticalDragon yeah I was wondering what the connection between the Fall and the rest of it was too and at the end I thought TCG was just cannibalizing the lady for her power, I didn't realize it came from the Fall. I'm just a bit thick sometimes 😅
I have issues with the stormwall being very similar to the wall in a song of ice and fire. The differences are very minute, and with the story of the wall and riders being largely enclosed in this one novel, i did not really feel the weight as much as I think I was intended to. I was also hoping for some sort of tie in with our guy in Tavore’s army, but that remains a mystery I suppose.
To be honest, I first encountered it in stories about the Great Wall of China and the stories it inspired...
@@ACriticalDragon in modern fantasy AP, you cannot deny the similarities between the stormwall and the wall. Keeping an alien race out, the explicit use of cold and winter, the prisoner army, misunderstanding the purpose of the alien race.
I don't. But the concept was in their game from the 1970s. It, and Martin's wall, are very much inspired by the Great Wall of China. Martin's vision is the most well known and rightly so, but that wasn't an issue I had with it because I was familiar with the trope prior to reading A Song of Ice and Fire.
@@ACriticalDragon fair enough, I have no idea what was in their game and I can only go off of published material and compare. No doubt the “big wall” idea comes from China, but when it’s application bears similarities so strong, it’s worth pointing out. It’s hard to miss.
@@ACriticalDragon thank you for responding, I really didn’t expect it from a year old video. Unrelated, but why didn’t the riders go around the wall? Presumably their goal was the pieces of Kaminsod, the stormwall doesn’t fully encircle korel/fist. After X amount of years participating in “the lady’s” sacrificial ritual of killing guys on the wall, why didn’t they find an alternate route? They got to Fist sea at the end pretty quickly
It’s so disappointing that you don’t understand the etymology of your own name. P’rofessor Fireball is of course an elision, following the important dogma of apostrophes. It’s a shortened version of Pyrofessor Fireball. If you must add an umlaut, that would of course go over the a in Fireball, following after the great tradition established by the New Jersey ice cream company.
That explains everything. Brilliant.
😁
Wait... has Prof. Chase not finished NotME?
Nope. This is his first read through.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh wow. I had no idea! I've always loved these videos, but now I'm extra extra excited to see B&B & assail for the horror and reveals!
B&B scared the pants off me :laughing:
EDIT: BAH!!! I forgot about OST! For whatever reason, that story really hooked me. Maybe because of the history of two cultures that I have really come to appreciate.
I think more than any other, this discussion encapsulates all of my feelings and reasons for loving this series. At the same time it draws attention to the faults of so many preaching, poorly written genre books attempting to tell me their answers with all the subtlety of a brick to the face.
Hi Joseph, thanks for watching, I am glad that you enjoyed the video.
There will always be an audience for more direct books, but personally I prefer these authors like Esslemont, who trust in the reader more, and present us with a subtler text.
@@ACriticalDragon It's the difference between applicability and allegory, one might say.