I know its a unpopular opinion but god I love very episode of Supernatural. I watched this show when I was at my lowest point and now I come back to it whenever I feel bad
That’s unpopular? I’ve watched it front to back at least 3 times. It started when I was 13 and ended when I was 28. That’s almost half my life. Great show
I just love the first five seasons, but all opinions in the fandom are good. I love just the first five seasons, but I love and respect fans of all seasons. And if the show helped you in a bad moment, that is awesome.
Superb video man! This was extremely well put together and had a fantastic central focus of conclusion. You got the true essence of the video in less than half the time my vid did you edited far better 😄 I always pause Swan Song in my head when it goes up to that street lamp.
Thank you so much! Your video was a huge inspiration for mine, I’ve wanted to make one like it for a while but I never felt like I was doing the concept as much justice as you did!
Swan Song is where the real Supernatural ends at least for me, everything was close but unfortunately they had to follow up with another seasons yeah sure some of the best stuff comes from later seasons but any of these seasons never reach the high of this run yeah season 11 was close and i also enjoyed season 6 and 8 for most parts but if the show stop after Swan Song would be perfect and for me is where the canon Supernatural ends and the rest is just Sam ilusion made by Lucifer when he is trapped in cage
I think after season 5, maybe not during 6, but the cycle behind the show started to develop. Instead of being a seasonal arc, they started to run an A - B double arc cycle. Where the seasons would have an overall plot arc for the season, but it was divided between plot A and plot B which I call the brother's resolution arcs. Because after that point there is always an emphasis for half the season of the brothers not liking or not trusting each other. Sure, it had happened a bit before due to the demon's blood. But that became a recurring theme for the first half of each season. It got so boring to know that we had to watch Sam and Dean blow up and fight for half a season before they actually got on with the actual plot for the season, which was usually covered in the second half of the season. It was so infuriating for me having to watch them hash out the same crap for 10 episodes every season before they got on with an actual plot. I'm rambling, sorry. ADHD and Autism. My point is before season 6 plots were usually a background to the brother's adventures. Yeah, there was an overarching story in the background, like season one, finding their father. However, the focus was always on the individual hunts. While 6 was really the last season to really focus on hunts, it was convoluted with Grampa Shepherd. Also, I'm not saying that they didn't go on hunts in the following seasons, just that the hunts no longer seemed like the point of the show and were just stop gaps between the road they were metaphorically taking us down. The road as a journey through the series being a common metaphor they used. It felt less and less like the road was about making sure people were safe from monsters one hunt at a time, to disjointed non-stop world ending plots where the last thing that felt appropriate was for them to even hunt random monsters. Sorry if that didn't make any sense. I just think the show lost what really gave it it's charm trying to give Dean and Sam bigger battles than stopping the Appocalypse. Which no one needed. All we needed was to continue to watch the brother kill new monsters with new methods. Heck, they could have introduced all kinds of different monsters from different regions in the world beyond what they did. But the cycle of having to watch Sam and Dean fight for half a season then go after their target for half a season just starting feeling too... formulaic, I guess. I think ultimately the real ending, was a reskinned version of how they ended The Vampire Diaries. I hope we get either a remake or another run at on a streaming service sometime in the future. Something a bit more mature with more quality horror and gore. That would be so amazing.
I loved when they continued SN after season 5 because i loved the characters but looking it back, SN peaked at season 5 and nothing afterwards comes even close to it and relied heavily on actors rather than script to carry through. While the show still had a lot of loose threads i absolutely loved swan song because it was so good.
Swan Song is always my ending to supernatural. That's the true ending of the show. I always assume that seasons 6 - 15 is all in Sam's mind as he's being tortured in hell I know that pretty dark asf lol but although I enjoyed the other seasons Supernatural seasons 1 - 5 will always be the best and the perfect conclusion to the story. Even if the show ended with Sam standing there to me it could've been Sam watching over his brother maybe in Heaven because Chuck(aka God) saved him or Sam is Dean's guardian angel at the end.
the truth was that eric planned the show from pilotr to end at this episode swan song, this was the original ending planned from the start, only difference is that you would not see sam
@@Etest432 if that was the original ending doesn't it means that Sam would still be in hell tortured for eternity by Lucifer? In that case I'm happy the show continued because both the boys get a happy ending
@@Etest432Does not see Sam? I thought the OG ending was Sam, maybe include Adam and John, watching Dean but the background of the scene was Heaven, not some random street.
Thank you so much for this comment! I always wanted to watch Supernatural videos that were thoughtful and well constructed, but I felt like there weren't enough so I wanted to make my own!
I absolutely enjoy swan song it's an amazing episode even though i do love the Carver era and some parts of the gamble era i do wish that the series had ended here at times i really like how sam and dean are similar to Lucifer and Michael in a way this ending was totally earned to me way more than carry on
With you mentioning that Chuck was a stand-in for Kripke himself, it makes me dislike the decision to turn him into a villain in the last season even more. It's like saying Kripke is bad. My primary headcannon is that the show ended with season 5. My secondary headcannon is that the Chuck we see in season 11 and the one we see in seasons 14 and 15 are actually fakes created by the real Chuck since he didn't have any other way to raise the stakes after all the other big bads we had seen.
I really do love Supernatural but I would've really loved if the show ended here. It really is a masterpiece of an episode and a great conclusion to everyone and everything. About Chuck disappearing, people would've most likely come to the conclusion that he's God (because he's the writer of the book "Supernatural" in the show) and it would've made perfect sense and that'd be the end of everything. For me, the canon ends here and it's perfectly done, the seasons that follow are just parallel universes like Marvel and DC make
I think sam being in the cage is a better ending than leaving it on a massive cliffhanger. The main problem that i hear the most is how often sam and dean die and you cant really get emotional when they die.
Season 10 is arguably an even bigger slog, sorry. If you can somehow get to season 11 it does get *considerably* better at least through that season. I personally feel 12 - 15 are overall better then 7 - 10, but not everyone agrees.
8-11 were my favorite run of seasons after dealing with 6 and 7. Just go at your own pace and try to enjoy the character moments if you feel that continuing is something worth your time. 8, 9, and 11 were some of my favorites for sure, and season 10 was still enjoyable for me, mostly in terms of the character work they did for Dean. There are parts of it that were atrocious though. Last note: if you do end up making it to season 11, STOP WHEN YOU FINISH THE FINALE. Season 12 was absolute garbage, and 12-15 as a whole fucking sucked. There were bright spots, of course, but overall those do not shine the dumpster fire the show became when Andrew Dabb took over as showrunner.
@@hollykm I will get there, i just started season 10 yesterday. also Jay is my bro so he and iwill be watching the remainder of thew show together!! cant wiat to suffer through 15 :D
Kripke said that he'd have made the ending darker. I heard that it would have been mostly the same, just Bobby and Cas stay dead and Sam stays in Hell. Pretty dark bittersweet.
Would have been perfect honestly. Dark? Hell yeah but you know what… they beat the devil, you’d better believe they’d lose everything in the process while the world goes on, oblivious to what they just did.
I'm only on the start of series 10 (I've already had spoiled what happens in the series 15 finale but not too much of what occurs in between) But basically from what I can see, although I'm still very much obsessed with the show and was always going to carry on watching after series 5, it really does feel like it should have ended with series 5 in many ways. Of course a lot of fantastic stuff has happened since, and I'm grateful we got to see more of Crowley and meet Charlie, Kevin etc, but the first 5 series really does feel like its own nicely wrapped up, self-contained story. I think there's always a danger when shows go on too long they get cheapened somehow because it feels too far removed from the original storyline. Like basically ignoring Sam's powers after series 5 and various things that made it feel like they'd forgotten stuff that had happened before.
Small correction, but it's actually *Lucifer* who gives Sam a real choice, or rather is less manipulating than Michael. It's Michael and his angels who keep trying everything to deceive and coerce Dean into becoming Michael's vessel, Lucifer just told Sam he'd consent to him--- he never lies about that and makes and honest effort there. In fact, when Sam *thinks* he's got Luci where he wants him, Satan could've just gone along with it; Sam after all wants to let him in, but Luci is so honest he actually tells Sam *he knows.* So Sam says yes without Luci withholding any information.
The only thing I would argue about the beginning of Season 6 with Dean is that it's not that he isn't happy, Hell id argue its probably the closest he gets to happiness, but more he is still suffering with Trauma from the events prior and is still going through the healing process. He watched the most important people in his life die regularly previously and THE most important person of his life his little Brother made a choice that haunts Dean, but Dean knew that Sam was ultimately correct and that he needed to leave the life behind. It's not that Dean wanted to necessarily wanted his old life back, but more the burden of what he has gone through has weighed him down so much that part of him more than likely would always be in that Dark Pthee which is why he needed Lisa, Ben and a normal life to pull him back into the light. So to sum it all up, Dean wasn't miserable he was suffering, but just because you suffer from Trauma doesn't necessarily mean you arent happy.
The Supernatural Renaissance from season 8 to including 11 was also well rounded and pretty significant. Everything we, as spn fans that actually saw and enjoyed the whole show, come to love and remember as significant about spn was coined in this second golden age of supernatural. Yeah sure the first high from season 1 to 5 were the best but the show has definitely a lot more to offer then just the Kripke seasons.
If we consider this episode the Canon episode of series, Sam might be saved Of Cage by Chuck/God, we saw the whole episode as a discussion between Michael and Lucifer about his father being a asshole that doesn't care to anything, but, like we see Lucifer seeing the brothers' bond, Chuck also watched everything and could bring Sam to Live a normal life, but decided to let Dean have a normal life and never was seen again.
I agree with give or take all of your thematic and character concept analysis, especially that you cannot use events that take place after that finale as the basis of an argument for why it should have continued. However, for me it's the execution that was lacking. Swan Song just never resonated with me because despite the parallels and intentions it just was not executed in a manner that was anything above average imo. There was no real reason for Sam to believe he could overpower Lucifer and retain control of his body. His plan felt contrived, even with him drinking a ton of demon blood, especially since he already knew Lucifer was expecting him to say yes. If the intention of the writers was to show Sam finally making a choice for himself, then why not have him ultimately not say yes before the conflict is resolved? It would have obviously not been in Lucifer's plan that he did so, thus automatically being of his agency and nothing else. It makes little logical sense, and while I'm not someone to nitpick every logistical improbability in media, this one just stuck out too far for me to ignore. But moreso then even that, Sam resurfacing at the moment he did (and several instances in the episode really) felt extremely cliche - basically using the power of will and metaphorically "friendship" (metaphor because it's actually his brother) to essentially defeat the all powerful, completely out of their league to that point antagonist. I just find it lazy, and it isn't helped by the fact that Kripke has gone on record as far as I know that he is not good at character writing. So to me, it seems like he subconsciously used one of the more common tropes due to lack of any creativity when it came to presenting the conclusion to the series' themes. What's *even* more is that I can't help but just question part of the plot of season 5 overall and the decision to have the brothers be *destined* vessels for the archangels. And it's the "destiny" part that creates a tremendously large plot hole that I can't ignore: why was Azazel recruiting multiple children as potential generals for his army? I'm fine with the retcon being a transition from "general" to "vessel" because I can reconcile that with a bit of head canon, as in Azazel probably wouldn't want the prospect to find out they are just a meat suit and defect or get cold feet. But the "multiple" candidate part I cannot without some major hoop jumping. But even if I jump through those hoops, there is still the fact that everyone and their mother supposedly already knew it HAD to be Sam. But Sam died at first... so... huh? If we do even more hoop jumping we could say Lucifer would just berate, perhaps incinerate, Azazel and just resurrect Sam himself similar to how Castiel raised Dean. But this is three separate rounds of hoop jumping here. I can forgive one, not three, and this tremendous hole in the plot makes season 5 not feel as natural as it should. Throw in that Lucifer was not in the season as much as I believe he should have been and it's a weaker season for me. For the record I'm not a fan of the actual finale either. I don't think it wrapped up naturally because it became *just* about the boys yet again similar to how their obsession with each other ran around in circles from seasons 7 - 10, essentially going nowhere. Seasons 11 - 15 save the finale had remedied that for the most part only to triple down on how only they matter and only their relationship is important. However, I feel season 15 as a whole is a more fitting final season. But I'll get more into that if/when you get to that era with your top 10 episodes.
Multiple candidates to deceive sam into becoming the prime most skilled vessel as Azazel said he needs him strong. He also comments on how he knew there was a reason he kept dean alive implying he knew he would bring back Sam it's clearly not planned masterful writing but doesn't seem like crazy mental gymnastics. Also if Sam said no how can they resolve the destruction of the world? Castiel already said it may be possible for him to go against Lucifer since he beat a literal horseman, and Death himself vouched for Sam there's no reason for Sam not to say yes.
The brothers separated and Sam in hell never felt like a fulfilling ending to me. Also Kripke massively retooled during/ after the writers strike. So it was never a five year plan from the start. It became one more than half way thru.
Wait, did you just call it "longest American SCI-FI show"?! Sci-fi. The show titled SUPERNATURAL. Science fiction. Supernatural. The show literally titled after what it's about, is "science fiction." What.
@@JayTheZoomster it's under the joint Sci-Fi/Fantasy banner, because those genres have always been lumped together due to frequent overlap, but they do have qualities specific to each and can stand apart. Supernatural is more fantasy than sci-fi.
OK i have a question to every all of you, thias was kripkes love letter to fans his Parting gift to loyall watchers, so can anyone tell me who the fuck eric giz gewritz is who wrote the story for swan song, hes got fuck all tv/movie credits pretty much no digital footprints, kripke only qsays his name next to the word story on stuff,i can fi d nothing at all that links them barri g swan song😢 and their coeges were 30 minsapart in L.A.anyome ideas?
The actual Finale just isn't Original. It's so cookie cutter. One brother dies and goes to heaven, then the other brother lives out a long life in montage to die and meet up with everyone? That is an altered version of how they ended TVD. I don't know. I love Supernatural. I really want to see a spin off or something new but more mature on a streaming service.
With all honesty in my opinion Swan Song is totally overrated the whole season 5 is actually , this season feels so Melodramatic , it won’t never top season 4 climatic finale.
@FatCatBFME I'd disagree considering it's ratings and even today a new generation are watching this series. The actors seem to always sell out at conventions too. If anything it was very successful.
I know its a unpopular opinion but god I love very episode of Supernatural. I watched this show when I was at my lowest point and now I come back to it whenever I feel bad
That’s unpopular? I’ve watched it front to back at least 3 times. It started when I was 13 and ended when I was 28. That’s almost half my life. Great show
I just love the first five seasons, but all opinions in the fandom are good. I love just the first five seasons, but I love and respect fans of all seasons. And if the show helped you in a bad moment, that is awesome.
Swan song was such an amazing ending. Back then I honestly thought that that was it lol
I missed the fact that supernatural continued until season 8
Do you think it would become like BB in supernatural genre if it had 5 seasons?
Man those first 5 seasons were so great.
Part of me always considers 1-5 the "real" supernatural, so to speak. everything after that is just extras that i happily accept and love.
Superb video man! This was extremely well put together and had a fantastic central focus of conclusion. You got the true essence of the video in less than half the time my vid did you edited far better 😄 I always pause Swan Song in my head when it goes up to that street lamp.
Thank you so much! Your video was a huge inspiration for mine, I’ve wanted to make one like it for a while but I never felt like I was doing the concept as much justice as you did!
Swan Song is where the real Supernatural ends at least for me, everything was close but unfortunately they had to follow up with another seasons yeah sure some of the best stuff comes from later seasons but any of these seasons never reach the high of this run yeah season 11 was close and i also enjoyed season 6 and 8 for most parts but if the show stop after Swan Song would be perfect and for me is where the canon Supernatural ends and the rest is just Sam ilusion made by Lucifer when he is trapped in cage
I think after season 5, maybe not during 6, but the cycle behind the show started to develop. Instead of being a seasonal arc, they started to run an A - B double arc cycle. Where the seasons would have an overall plot arc for the season, but it was divided between plot A and plot B which I call the brother's resolution arcs. Because after that point there is always an emphasis for half the season of the brothers not liking or not trusting each other. Sure, it had happened a bit before due to the demon's blood. But that became a recurring theme for the first half of each season. It got so boring to know that we had to watch Sam and Dean blow up and fight for half a season before they actually got on with the actual plot for the season, which was usually covered in the second half of the season. It was so infuriating for me having to watch them hash out the same crap for 10 episodes every season before they got on with an actual plot.
I'm rambling, sorry. ADHD and Autism. My point is before season 6 plots were usually a background to the brother's adventures. Yeah, there was an overarching story in the background, like season one, finding their father. However, the focus was always on the individual hunts. While 6 was really the last season to really focus on hunts, it was convoluted with Grampa Shepherd. Also, I'm not saying that they didn't go on hunts in the following seasons, just that the hunts no longer seemed like the point of the show and were just stop gaps between the road they were metaphorically taking us down. The road as a journey through the series being a common metaphor they used. It felt less and less like the road was about making sure people were safe from monsters one hunt at a time, to disjointed non-stop world ending plots where the last thing that felt appropriate was for them to even hunt random monsters.
Sorry if that didn't make any sense. I just think the show lost what really gave it it's charm trying to give Dean and Sam bigger battles than stopping the Appocalypse. Which no one needed. All we needed was to continue to watch the brother kill new monsters with new methods. Heck, they could have introduced all kinds of different monsters from different regions in the world beyond what they did. But the cycle of having to watch Sam and Dean fight for half a season then go after their target for half a season just starting feeling too... formulaic, I guess. I think ultimately the real ending, was a reskinned version of how they ended The Vampire Diaries. I hope we get either a remake or another run at on a streaming service sometime in the future. Something a bit more mature with more quality horror and gore. That would be so amazing.
Omg little leftovers clip there, love that show. Best thing ever
I NEED to make a video on that show eventually. It's so fucking good.
@@JayTheZoomsterWill you review The Boys (by Kripke) Doom Patrol (by Carver)
@@JayTheZoomster OMG please. I’m obsessed with it I’ve watched it many times.
Swan Song was the only logical conclusion to Supernatural.
I loved when they continued SN after season 5 because i loved the characters but looking it back, SN peaked at season 5 and nothing afterwards comes even close to it and relied heavily on actors rather than script to carry through. While the show still had a lot of loose threads i absolutely loved swan song because it was so good.
Swan Song is always my ending to supernatural. That's the true ending of the show. I always assume that seasons 6 - 15 is all in Sam's mind as he's being tortured in hell I know that pretty dark asf lol but although I enjoyed the other seasons Supernatural seasons 1 - 5 will always be the best and the perfect conclusion to the story. Even if the show ended with Sam standing there to me it could've been Sam watching over his brother maybe in Heaven because Chuck(aka God) saved him or Sam is Dean's guardian angel at the end.
the truth was that eric planned the show from pilotr to end at this episode swan song, this was the original ending planned from the start, only difference is that you would not see sam
@@Etest432 if that was the original ending doesn't it means that Sam would still be in hell tortured for eternity by Lucifer? In that case I'm happy the show continued because both the boys get a happy ending
@@Zanoladab it does mean that but dean gets opposite to make it thematic
@@Etest432Does not see Sam? I thought the OG ending was Sam, maybe include Adam and John, watching Dean but the background of the scene was Heaven, not some random street.
@@Etest432Update: I just hope Kripke make an alternate sequel to Swan Song similar to El Camino to Felina.
I love your Supernatural videos! it's so hard to find video essays on this show much less good ones with good quality and good analysis. Thank you!!
Thank you so much for this comment! I always wanted to watch Supernatural videos that were thoughtful and well constructed, but I felt like there weren't enough so I wanted to make my own!
I absolutely enjoy swan song it's an amazing episode even though i do love the Carver era and some parts of the gamble era i do wish that the series had ended here at times i really like how sam and dean are similar to Lucifer and Michael in a way this ending was totally earned to me way more than carry on
With you mentioning that Chuck was a stand-in for Kripke himself, it makes me dislike the decision to turn him into a villain in the last season even more. It's like saying Kripke is bad. My primary headcannon is that the show ended with season 5. My secondary headcannon is that the Chuck we see in season 11 and the one we see in seasons 14 and 15 are actually fakes created by the real Chuck since he didn't have any other way to raise the stakes after all the other big bads we had seen.
I really do love Supernatural but I would've really loved if the show ended here. It really is a masterpiece of an episode and a great conclusion to everyone and everything. About Chuck disappearing, people would've most likely come to the conclusion that he's God (because he's the writer of the book "Supernatural" in the show) and it would've made perfect sense and that'd be the end of everything. For me, the canon ends here and it's perfectly done, the seasons that follow are just parallel universes like Marvel and DC make
I think sam being in the cage is a better ending than leaving it on a massive cliffhanger. The main problem that i hear the most is how often sam and dean die and you cant really get emotional when they die.
I would of been fine with swan song being the finale but watching Sam return right at after the credits made his whole sacrifice watered down
Spot on!
I love supernatural. I can’t get past season 9. Kill me please 💜💜💜
Season 10 is arguably an even bigger slog, sorry. If you can somehow get to season 11 it does get *considerably* better at least through that season. I personally feel 12 - 15 are overall better then 7 - 10, but not everyone agrees.
8-11 were my favorite run of seasons after dealing with 6 and 7. Just go at your own pace and try to enjoy the character moments if you feel that continuing is something worth your time. 8, 9, and 11 were some of my favorites for sure, and season 10 was still enjoyable for me, mostly in terms of the character work they did for Dean. There are parts of it that were atrocious though. Last note: if you do end up making it to season 11, STOP WHEN YOU FINISH THE FINALE. Season 12 was absolute garbage, and 12-15 as a whole fucking sucked. There were bright spots, of course, but overall those do not shine the dumpster fire the show became when Andrew Dabb took over as showrunner.
@@hollykmtotally agree about 12 - 15
@@hollykm I will get there, i just started season 10 yesterday. also Jay is my bro so he and iwill be watching the remainder of thew show together!! cant wiat to suffer through 15 :D
Sam closing the gates of hell would be a perfect ending.
Stop watching after this. This is the ending for me.
The series ended in 5th season) everything else is just a low quality fanfic for fans.
Kripke said that he'd have made the ending darker. I heard that it would have been mostly the same, just Bobby and Cas stay dead and Sam stays in Hell. Pretty dark bittersweet.
Would have been perfect honestly. Dark? Hell yeah but you know what… they beat the devil, you’d better believe they’d lose everything in the process while the world goes on, oblivious to what they just did.
I'm only on the start of series 10 (I've already had spoiled what happens in the series 15 finale but not too much of what occurs in between) But basically from what I can see, although I'm still very much obsessed with the show and was always going to carry on watching after series 5, it really does feel like it should have ended with series 5 in many ways. Of course a lot of fantastic stuff has happened since, and I'm grateful we got to see more of Crowley and meet Charlie, Kevin etc, but the first 5 series really does feel like its own nicely wrapped up, self-contained story. I think there's always a danger when shows go on too long they get cheapened somehow because it feels too far removed from the original storyline. Like basically ignoring Sam's powers after series 5 and various things that made it feel like they'd forgotten stuff that had happened before.
Small correction, but it's actually *Lucifer* who gives Sam a real choice, or rather is less manipulating than Michael. It's Michael and his angels who keep trying everything to deceive and coerce Dean into becoming Michael's vessel, Lucifer just told Sam he'd consent to him--- he never lies about that and makes and honest effort there. In fact, when Sam *thinks* he's got Luci where he wants him, Satan could've just gone along with it; Sam after all wants to let him in, but Luci is so honest he actually tells Sam *he knows.* So Sam says yes without Luci withholding any information.
The only thing I would argue about the beginning of Season 6 with Dean is that it's not that he isn't happy, Hell id argue its probably the closest he gets to happiness, but more he is still suffering with Trauma from the events prior and is still going through the healing process. He watched the most important people in his life die regularly previously and THE most important person of his life his little Brother made a choice that haunts Dean, but Dean knew that Sam was ultimately correct and that he needed to leave the life behind. It's not that Dean wanted to necessarily wanted his old life back, but more the burden of what he has gone through has weighed him down so much that part of him more than likely would always be in that Dark Pthee which is why he needed Lisa, Ben and a normal life to pull him back into the light. So to sum it all up, Dean wasn't miserable he was suffering, but just because you suffer from Trauma doesn't necessarily mean you arent happy.
The ending we got sucks man
Supernatural was a great show from season 1-5. It became a cash grab beyond that.
The Supernatural Renaissance from season 8 to including 11 was also well rounded and pretty significant. Everything we, as spn fans that actually saw and enjoyed the whole show, come to love and remember as significant about spn was coined in this second golden age of supernatural. Yeah sure the first high from season 1 to 5 were the best but the show has definitely a lot more to offer then just the Kripke seasons.
If we consider this episode the Canon episode of series, Sam might be saved Of Cage by Chuck/God, we saw the whole episode as a discussion between Michael and Lucifer about his father being a asshole that doesn't care to anything, but, like we see Lucifer seeing the brothers' bond, Chuck also watched everything and could bring Sam to Live a normal life, but decided to let Dean have a normal life and never was seen again.
I agree with give or take all of your thematic and character concept analysis, especially that you cannot use events that take place after that finale as the basis of an argument for why it should have continued. However, for me it's the execution that was lacking. Swan Song just never resonated with me because despite the parallels and intentions it just was not executed in a manner that was anything above average imo. There was no real reason for Sam to believe he could overpower Lucifer and retain control of his body. His plan felt contrived, even with him drinking a ton of demon blood, especially since he already knew Lucifer was expecting him to say yes. If the intention of the writers was to show Sam finally making a choice for himself, then why not have him ultimately not say yes before the conflict is resolved? It would have obviously not been in Lucifer's plan that he did so, thus automatically being of his agency and nothing else. It makes little logical sense, and while I'm not someone to nitpick every logistical improbability in media, this one just stuck out too far for me to ignore.
But moreso then even that, Sam resurfacing at the moment he did (and several instances in the episode really) felt extremely cliche - basically using the power of will and metaphorically "friendship" (metaphor because it's actually his brother) to essentially defeat the all powerful, completely out of their league to that point antagonist. I just find it lazy, and it isn't helped by the fact that Kripke has gone on record as far as I know that he is not good at character writing. So to me, it seems like he subconsciously used one of the more common tropes due to lack of any creativity when it came to presenting the conclusion to the series' themes.
What's *even* more is that I can't help but just question part of the plot of season 5 overall and the decision to have the brothers be *destined* vessels for the archangels. And it's the "destiny" part that creates a tremendously large plot hole that I can't ignore: why was Azazel recruiting multiple children as potential generals for his army? I'm fine with the retcon being a transition from "general" to "vessel" because I can reconcile that with a bit of head canon, as in Azazel probably wouldn't want the prospect to find out they are just a meat suit and defect or get cold feet.
But the "multiple" candidate part I cannot without some major hoop jumping. But even if I jump through those hoops, there is still the fact that everyone and their mother supposedly already knew it HAD to be Sam. But Sam died at first... so... huh? If we do even more hoop jumping we could say Lucifer would just berate, perhaps incinerate, Azazel and just resurrect Sam himself similar to how Castiel raised Dean. But this is three separate rounds of hoop jumping here. I can forgive one, not three, and this tremendous hole in the plot makes season 5 not feel as natural as it should. Throw in that Lucifer was not in the season as much as I believe he should have been and it's a weaker season for me.
For the record I'm not a fan of the actual finale either. I don't think it wrapped up naturally because it became *just* about the boys yet again similar to how their obsession with each other ran around in circles from seasons 7 - 10, essentially going nowhere. Seasons 11 - 15 save the finale had remedied that for the most part only to triple down on how only they matter and only their relationship is important. However, I feel season 15 as a whole is a more fitting final season. But I'll get more into that if/when you get to that era with your top 10 episodes.
Multiple candidates to deceive sam into becoming the prime most skilled vessel as Azazel said he needs him strong. He also comments on how he knew there was a reason he kept dean alive implying he knew he would bring back Sam it's clearly not planned masterful writing but doesn't seem like crazy mental gymnastics. Also if Sam said no how can they resolve the destruction of the world? Castiel already said it may be possible for him to go against Lucifer since he beat a literal horseman, and Death himself vouched for Sam there's no reason for Sam not to say yes.
@PathBeyondTheDark
I’ve read a lot of shit takes but fuck me is this one of the worst I’ve ever read (or skimmed through)
The brothers separated and Sam in hell never felt like a fulfilling ending to me. Also Kripke massively retooled during/ after the writers strike. So it was never a five year plan from the start. It became one more than half way thru.
would luv if u spoke on winchesters and that ending
Wait, did you just call it "longest American SCI-FI show"?!
Sci-fi.
The show titled SUPERNATURAL.
Science fiction.
Supernatural. The show literally titled after what it's about, is "science fiction."
What.
Yep, it's classified as science fiction.
@@JayTheZoomster it's under the joint Sci-Fi/Fantasy banner, because those genres have always been lumped together due to frequent overlap, but they do have qualities specific to each and can stand apart. Supernatural is more fantasy than sci-fi.
OK i have a question to every all of you, thias was kripkes love letter to fans his Parting gift to loyall watchers, so can anyone tell me who the fuck eric giz gewritz is who wrote the story for swan song, hes got fuck all tv/movie credits pretty much no digital footprints, kripke only qsays his name next to the word story on stuff,i can fi d nothing at all that links them barri g swan song😢 and their coeges were 30 minsapart in L.A.anyome ideas?
Are we all going to ignore that Dean and Sam have been stabbed and shot multiple times worse than what killed Dean?
The actual Finale just isn't Original. It's so cookie cutter. One brother dies and goes to heaven, then the other brother lives out a long life in montage to die and meet up with everyone? That is an altered version of how they ended TVD. I don't know. I love Supernatural. I really want to see a spin off or something new but more mature on a streaming service.
Swan song is not a perfect series or swan song and no Michael didn't belong in hell nor did Adam.
Sure, Sam in hell for eternity with lucifer and Michael while Dean lives his happy/miserable life would have been a brilliant ending 👏
As opposed to the trashy shit show ending to the series we got, yeah, s5 was utter perfection. The show died when they brought it back for 6-15
With all honesty in my opinion Swan Song is totally overrated the whole season 5 is actually , this season feels so Melodramatic , it won’t never top season 4 climatic finale.
Perfect Finale for mediocre tv show
Why mediocre?
@@HieuNguyenChi-bb2tg coz its CW, every tv show there is hot garbage
@FatCatBFME I'd disagree considering it's ratings and even today a new generation are watching this series. The actors seem to always sell out at conventions too. If anything it was very successful.
I honestly hated swan song. Just felt underwhelming