No way Kim and Marinette socialize during 4 seasons as normal friends to later tell what Kim did to her, it is so obvious they made it to justify Marinette's toxic attitude at all costs
Totally, sure Kim is HUGE dummy but to blame him for all of Marinette's toxic disgusting behavior? It was her choice after Kim's stupidity. Why did she entrust him with the Monkey? After Fu gave it to him in the first place at Adrien's party, WITCH SHE HERSELF CRASHED LIKE A IDIOT! Damn girl back off of Kagami's Husband all ready!! Seriously, Cholé never deserved Pollen/Bee nor did Kim with the Monkey. (Know his name can't spell it.) I would I have preferred Wayhem for Monkey and definitely Sabrina for Pollen. Everyone have a blessed Saturday July 27, 2024 at 8:18AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥
Kim's only purpose in that one episode is just to give Marinette an excuse for her posssesive creepyness, basically just an object to push the plot forward, this is how desparatly Astruc wants to display Marinette as the most perfect person to ever exist Edit: Oh and in the episodes before Marinette's trauma episode, you can see them talking to each other normally as if nothing happened between them, I am convinced that Astruc just made Kim a rushed excuse to stop the Marinette hate and Chloe hype.
@@starlaixystarMarinette has done a lot of questionable things, but the reason why Lila hates her is because she sees right through her, unlike the others who loses their brain cells whenever Lila is around.
Lets face it, Kim being stupid is just a running gag. It was meant to be silly. But THEN they use him to justify Marinette's creepiness, they make him so much of jerk it's beyond comprehension why Marinette even bothered being in the same room as him, and everything went down to flames from then on
@usernotfound_____yet Kim joins the anchor toss competition Kim - But I can't give up, I have to try, I can do it. I got anchor arms, I'm no wimp, I'm a jerk.
I dont even know how people can hate him, when just like every other tertiary character in their class the guy isnt even A CHARACTER. Astruc changes how he is written on the fly because he genuinely doesnt remember what he is supposed to be doing. I cant hate a character who simply isnt a character
@@felipecouto1102 Kim as other characters 1. Dark cupid 💔 2. Dark humor 🤡 3. King monkey 🐒 4. Manny taur 🐂 5. Le chien muscle kim 💪 (Kim wearing fake arms) 6. Jay 👎 -Houcs Pocus 7. Yao 🇨🇳 8. Animan's prey 🐈⬛️😋😨
Thomas doesn’t seem to understand the difference between explanation and justification. Even if Kim’s actions caused her trauma, that doesn’t justify her stalking behavior. No matter how you twist it, her stalking will never be right. It’s like how abuse victims can still be abusers.
It's funny how they had mylene say that chloe's backstory doesn't justify her actions yet later on in the same episode they had mari say that it's not her fault she's this way IT'S CHLOE'S FAULT!
Her stalking-esque trait, stems from knowing the person better, ever since Kim pull that prank on her. She tends to be obssesive not to make the same mistake of trusting anyone, especially if they're friends with Chloe. I think the writer set it up to show despite being a good person, she has glaring character flaws that are obvious to the outsiders/viewers and never the subject themselves. Besides the show is about people who go through misery and depression, mostly caused by others, and tend to lash out to become metaphorical monsters. And thanks to the Miraculous holders, they help others a bit at a time.
@@sainttan The prank with Kim was just added in last minute to justify her behaviour because people were complaining, it was never planned. The creator himself thinks the stalking is cute and acceptable which is why he added it into the show and portrayed it as perfectly acceptable for 4 WHOLE SEASONS. He doesn't consider it a flaw. He gave a backstory for her stalking 9 YEARS LATER in season 5 basically pinning all the blame on someone else and STILL not addressing the fact that what she was doing was wrong. It was obviously never planned to be a part of the show and the show is definitely not so clever and metaphorical. Please don't fall for something so shady
The thing about Kim is he is not consistent one day he is a bully and next day he is a nice guy pick a struggle like I felt in season one he was the secondary bully and I thought he and Chloe would date
Humans are complicated, Kim's one of those good guys, who are guillible enough to trust Chloe's word, especially since he's in love with her. To him bullying and pranking are his way to have fun, or even make other people happy, and never thinking that what he's doing was wrong. That's why Kim was the holder of The Monkey, especially since it was based on the notorious prankster Monkey King, Sun Wukong.
Tbf, even tho her redemption arc isn't well done, it's better than every other redemption in season 5, and it made sense in a way, and it wasn't as rushed as the others
@@mayotango1317 Man ! Thomas Asstruc really wants us to like Marinette. You think what her dad did to Chat Noir is what Asstruc wants to do to Chloe Fans ?
@@maximelegend8068 Thomas Asstruc is the Joss Whedon of animation, and Chloe is his Charisma Carpenter. That's why I prefer fanfiction. There it takes advantage of all the potential that the show has wasted.
EXACTLY! The fact that there are actually fools falling for what astruc did to her after he ruined her arc. He really is that desperate to the point where he has to bring down another character just for marinette to be justified and for Chloe to look worse
@@Lovinzanna She was always bad but not THAT bad. Astruc was just dead set on making the audience dislike her at all costs. The entirety of season 5 was one giant Chloe slander lol
The fact mari gave the monkey miraculous to kim multiple times but not the bee jewelry to chloe even though they both caused her "trauma" and even though hackmoth knows their identities makes her a hypocrite And the fact kim's gf after finding out what he did to the mc and after he called chloe the prettiest and funniest girl in the world, instead of breaking up with him decided to keep their relationship as they were, makes me speechless Kim literally faced no consequences for his deeds. He was only called out and changed his mind about pranks for no reason
The fact Kim even needs to learn that he was wrong or that he would say that Chloe is the prettiest girl in the world is beyond wrong as well. Season 2 - 3 Kim would never in a million years do something this horrible. If the writing was consistent this is an incident he would have apologized for ages ago and he also got over his crush on Chloe all the way back in Season 1. He would have never said she's prettier than his girlfriend
This shows writing is so funny to me considering how every one of its characters are hated/ disliked in some way It gets even funnier when you realize how good these characters( and the show in general) would be in the hands of better writers
It's like with every season the good writers got overshadowed by the bad writers cuz there's always some potential but then like the bad writers like no no no let me cook
Well most of them are invested in Marinette and Adrien's bizarre love story and try the worst ways to hook them up and to not considering their friends feelings
Well. Alix is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Mylene is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Alya is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Max is ok. I hate Kim. I hate Iwan. I hate Sabrina. Rose is ok. Juleka is great. Chloe is cool. Lila is the best. Ah and Nathaniel is Nathaniel.
Well there are definitely some that have stuff to talk about - Ayla, doesn’t deserve to be Mari’s friend, how do you still believe Lila when Mari is literally LB. - Nino, Lunatic with some good intentions but terrible executions. Plus dude started a “resistance” with like 10 people, the only reason they achieved anything is bc LB and CN were in their class, had they been in a different class the resistance would have been useless - Alex, probably the only normal/ self aware/ sane person in their class - Juleka, mostly ok except for when Luke and Mari broke up. Girl brought a PHOTO of her brother being sad to show Mari, instead of doing what a normal sibling should do like console her brother instead of photographing it. - Rose, also mostly ok, except of meddling into other people’s relationships - Sabrina, most sane person #2. She just needs different friends who don’t exploit her and a few therapy sessions. - Chloe, needed someone else to write her story, not Astruc who think e a 14 year old brat is irredeemable - Max, also mostly ok, invents things that are helpful and useful. If it weren’t for the meddling into people’s business he’d be 100% fine. - Nathaniel/ Mark, seriously stop meddling into other people’s business, and Mari should have brought them together in a different way. I mean seriously weren’t they the ones who also helped her invade Gabe’s party in the ep Felix I’m pretty sure? -Kagami, once again THERAPY, lots of it -Adrien, DOUBLE THERAPY So yeah there’s plenty to talk about with these kids
Well not really… he did see the error of his ways at the end and he apologised to Marinette for what he did. After much explaining to him by Ondine and Adrien. Paints him more as a dumb jock really
Eh.... Lila is based on a kitsune while Kim is based on sun wukong(all of the characters are based on myth) The problem is that while sun Wukong is based on immaturity and is meant to be the embodiment of change, he was also a manipulative anti hero who was extremely insightful and was one of the only people in journey to the west with common sense despite not being book smart, allowing him to see most plottwists coming a mile away. Lila is textbook kitsune, if Kim figured out the identities, was manipulative towards villains and heros and reached the top through physical strength and manipulative while also being so cocky and arrogant he overestimates himself it would make him interesting. He could be a anti hero.
The pool prank is worse when you realize how high up they were and Mari fell ON HER BACK. Water is hard, and the higher you are the greater the impact, girl was lucky she could walk immediately after that fall
I can't hate Kim simply because he is not really a character in and of himself, he is mainly just a plot device personified to push the narrative forward. Need the gentle giant to become a villain? Here is the bully to mock him and darken his heart. Need a villain of the week? He now is a megasimp that gets his heart broken. Need to turn the MC best friend evil? Have Kim steal her phone and darken her heart. Need a reason to excuse your MC being a stalker? Have Kim break her heart so badly that she decides to just stalk and harass any boy she might like instead of going to therapy. We only know Kim likes swimming because it came out in relation to a different character. Before that Kim never showed interest in swimming after that he is just randomly stripping to swim in bathtubs, aquariums, pools, rivers, or just because. And even his "Miraculous" episode where he gets his own miraculous the episode is pushing forward someone else's character development and Kim goes in and comes out of the episode exactly the same. I can't hate a character that isn't really a character. He's just a plot device that the writers whip out when they need something to get from point A to point B.
On one part, I would hate Kim for what happened in DERISION, on a second part, I feel bad for Kim being a victim of bad writing like many characters in the show unfortunately, and on a third part, a lot of Kim's interaction with Marinette makes no sense with the history of DERISION added to the mix which just make the whole history between the two an inserted excuse to justify Marinette's stalkerish behavior. Now, further explanation in regards to the first part, I would hate Kim for DERISION because part of aspects fit a bit into his personality. Kim is DENSE for lack of a better word, and I don't mean dense in the hilarious and adorable way, but dense in a way that is extremely annoying and to some extent cruel to others. Kim has a tendency more often than not to do things for a laugh but never considers what it does to the people affected as long as he gets a laugh out of it until the consequences have to be literally spelled out for him to understand how messed up those "pranks" are. He gets defensive when called out on his cruel pranks and feels like everyone is ganging up on him, ruining his fun and in his words "doesn't accept how he is" He tends to mix up fun pranking with cruel jokes and often doesn't see it until he's on the receiving end which is hypocritical that it's fun and games to him until he's hurt and that's when things are too far. It actually makes sense how he partially fell for Chloe, as he somewhat saw her cruelty as almost equal in meaning to his pranks as long as the wording describing the action are the words "joke" or "prank" then he's sold on the idea until the consequences show up. Now, explaining further in regards to the second part, I feel bad for Kim's character suffering from poor writing. Kim's character tends to experience shifts between lacking a kind of social awareness of knowing when his pranks go too far at one point and then having said social awareness to know when it's going too far the next moment and then vice versa again. Not only that, Kim seems to flipflop from disliking Chloe for being a bully then calling her an amazing girl which makes no sense, does he hate Chloe or not? Also, unfortunately, I think they just included Kim because the episode named DERISION focused on the Monkey Miraculous which he is the holder of and the fact that tended to pull pranks while being dense as well as the fact that they needed a reason to explain Marinette's stalkerish tendencies, so he became the sacrificial lamb for this cause. Now, explaining further in regards to the third part, the interactions between Kim and Marinette in earlier seasons and in DERISION doesn't really make sense. In earlier seasons, Kim and Marinette didn't appear to have any close interactions nor interests that would have shown any reason for a history of Kim being Marinette's first crush. Plus, if the history in DERISION has indeed been on Marinette's mind, then shouldn't she have expressed to Master Fu about having reservations in trusting Kim with a miraculous as they had a complicated history, so she wouldn't be to eager to trust him, but so far we've seen that Marinette trusted Kim without question as though the historical tension between the two was non-existent until it's mentioned in DERISION and suddenly Kim remembers after 4+ seasons that he played a cruel prank on Marinette which left tension between the the two but the tension didn't exist between the two until it was mentioned now. Had Kim and Marinette had a closer childhood bond like I've seen it mentioned in some fanfiction, and then it got strained due to a prank that went wrong due to Chloe and not in relation to a crush then that would make sense in a way. Actually, I don't think they even needed Kim for DERISION the same way the episode JUBILATION, which was in relation to the power of the Pig Miraculous, didn't need Rose who is its holder as the akuma but used Dark Owl, so DERISION could have used anyone or even just Chloe. The term *DERISION* means *contemptuous ridicule* or *mockery* which falls more on Chloe's part than Kim's. So the akuma didn't necessarily need to be Kim but could have focused on someone akumatised after being subjected to cruel mockery and was granted the power of uproar in the concept of Derision. The episode could have still confronted Chloe's cruel antagonism towards Marinette which still baffles me on why they decided that Chloe's bullying is suddenly almost homicidally cruel when it wasn't the case before. Also, if Marinette's experience with how her crush on Kim ended affected how she expresses her love to a person she's in love with, then how come when she was in love with Luka, she was perfectly fine with expressing her love even when she stuttered a bit and she didn't resort stalkerish behavior. I feel like DERISION and Kim were just needed to justify Marinette's stalkerish flaw with a backstory when it should have just been confronted for what it is, a VERY CONCERNING FLAW that should have been called out than being given a backstory to explain it.
You explained it perfectly. I feel like they could have even kept the Kim story line if they had showed some earlier tension between the two before Derision. And instead of saying “Kim is the reason I stalk who’s on my roster” they could have said “yea Kim did traumatize me in that moment but I’m not going to use my trauma as a crutch instead it will be my strength to see that this was just one boy and I don’t need to stalk my love interests, I can finally heal” Marinette is smart and resourceful. If anything, coming up with this bullshit excuse caused more up roar from the fandom. I love Marinette, but her ass is intelligent enough to know that stalking shouldn’t have been her go to
@@MiraculouslyUnique Kim as other characters 1. Dark cupid 💔 2. Dark humor 🤡 3. King monkey 🐒 4. Le chien muscle kim 💪 5. Animan's prey 🐈⬛️😋😨 6. Manny taur 🐂 7. Jay 👎 8. Yao 🇨🇳
Keep in mind that Thomas tries to paint Chloe as a horrible, evil monster with no redeeming qualities for her bullying Marinette but nobody says a thing about Kim going along with the bullying and helping traumatize Marinette in the first place and everyone still treats him like a friend.
The derision episode just felt so fanfic. There wasn’t signs leading to that and it felt like the writers wanted to excuse Marinette’s creepy behaviour but it caused another character’s downfall
Half of the characters are based on common caricatures (i.e., goth, nerd, jock, etc..) and instead of growing into something more complex, they just devolved into exaggerated versions of their caricatures.
In a show with a capable writer this wouldnt be an issue. Unfortunately astruc doesnt seem to be good at handling this, plus theres also the issues longer running tv shows may face and thats that later seasons have the tendency to drop in quality or become stagnant
@hexagonta Totally agree. Also, TDI writers know how to write protagonists antagonists and gray characters (half of the time, at least, which is still more than miraculous writers ever could).
He's never consistent, while he can be an idiot and a bully, he doesn't go towards attacking people, physically. He's just a guy that likes to see funny stuff happen.
It's funny how the whole episode about Marinette and Kim's past was made to justify Maricreepy's actions and reinforce the idea that Chloé is evil and will never have redemption, but Kim? He's so silly and innocent, of course he can redeem himself and be friends with Marinette, after all, before this episode it's as if this traumatic event had never happened, it seems like they only remembered what happened in this episode
Honestly, him trying to beat the elevator by running up the stairs was one of the reasons I liked him. It reminded me of childhood games me and my classmates would play. I wanted him to be that guy who used to be a jerk, but later becomes friends with everyone.
Don’t judge my opinion but I honestly like the fanfics or comics mlb than the actual show. I know this has nothing to do with what you are saying, but I just had to get this off my chest.
I honestly don’t hate him. Because I don’t consider Derision canon. Except the Kimdine moments. Those are cute. Marinette having a crush on him is gross though. Ondine x Kim. Marinette. Stay away!
To admit Derision was canon is to acknowledge that Marinette is moronsexual, with Luka as her attempt to try something new like anyone with a preference.
Astruc is a terrible writer. He makes most of his characters inconsistent af. But Kim… his role in Marinett’s backstory is just an ass pull to justify her worst qualities.
Oh, I agree with all of your thoughts, and have been trying to articulate my feelings on Kim for awhile. Because I actually find it so fascinating that Kim is arugably the biggest bully among the regular miraculous holders---depending on whether you count Chloe, who lost her miraculous at the time of this writing, and how you feel about Sabrina, who was often cheering Chloe on during her bullying---yet Kim is also the only member of the cast outside of Adrien and Marinette to have been chosen for heroism by Master Fu himself. Fu saw this boy and decided that there was goodness in him on parr with what he saw in our main two characters and decided to trust him with what he himself considered to be one of the most powerful weapons in his arsenal. And all I can think is . . .REALLY? Now that we're seemingly going to have all the heros back for the next season, I'm going to be curious to see if they harken back to that.
The narrative is sp weird cause everyone dislikes Chloe in turn they should dislike Kim for how often he bullies others and who would still hand out with him after what he did to Marinette. He didnt even seem sorry about it. Really just pull that plot line out of nowhere
@@Icy-be5vlthe fan base doesn't hate Lila for stupid reason they hate her because she's evil she is a liar and that was established from the first episode not to mention she willingly teamed up with Gabriel you know the villain of the show
@@madisonmason9179 Yes. The same Gabriel you feel bad for and call him a good person just like Marinette in the end calls him a good daddy and forgives him. And if you hate character because she is evil then that's completely stupid because that's her role right now and the only person who she is hurting is Marinette Dupan-Cheng. Marinette Dupan-Cheng who deserves to be treated like crap so who is really evil? It's Marinette and her fanbase are truly evil.
@@madisonmason9179 And just don't talk to me again. I don't want again to read your crap about Marinette being not evil. Stalking is evil and Marinette never faced any consequences for what she did. I will never forgive her.
Honestly? Without the bullying in the early seasons I quite liked Kim, he gave stupid himbo in a way. Then season five happened. I hate the writers for what they did to him
In earlier season he just had the issue of being pure comic Relief instead of being fleshed out more like the others. And then they dropped this doozy onto us.
I agree, he was more of a lighthearted character that I don't think we're supposed to take seriously. Some of his antics even got a small laugh out of me occasionally just because of how ridiculous they were. He's your typical goofy jock that is obsessed with proving to others how great he is at physical activities.
I read too many Chloe failed redemption hate but I rarely seen anyone look at the tragedy that is Kim. I quit Miraculous Ladybug when they ruined Kim. I rarely see any type of Vietnamese character in shows. And Kim got a spot in me because of that. I actually like the guy and how he got from a near Male Chloe to another good friend of Marinette (Which is what should've happened with Chloe. But Thomas was petty). Then Derision ruined his entire character. All to justify Marinette's stalking and obsessive behavior. That's the moment I quit. I thought I had a chance at Season 2 with Chloe's redemption arc. Then they completely ruined it. I almost snapped at Miracle Queen. Only to keep going for some reason. I haven't touched it since (might put on the pirate hat for the rest of the series and the movie).
I'm not Vietnamese or Asian, but I also felt really disappointed. Like when I heard he was Vietnamese, I thought it was cool for the same reasons, I hardly see any Vietnamese characters in many shows I watch. For them to take his character and ruin it felt so tragic.
Derision made everyone look awful -Marinette had her creepiness justified -Chloe was made to seem worse than she ever was -Adrien/CN was made out to be a violent hot head. Almost un-aliving Kim and painting it as "protective" was a god awful writing decision -Kim was just, destroyed Just truly a mess overall
Kim is like changing his mind every 2 seconds I like Chloe I don't like Chloe etc... What's wrong with him... The race thing was here for fun and to make us laugh in my opinion, but derision.... Oh... Derision.. Just NO, cat noir is so green flag he is the type of guy that's like "touch her and I will kill you" He is great! 🤭
@@MiraculouslyUnique Le chein Kim as other characters 1. Dark cupid 2. Dark humor 3. King monkey 4. Le chien muscle kim 5. Manny taur 6. Jay 7. Yao 8. Animan's prey
There are a lot of things that don't make sense about kim 1.How can kim still be in love with Chloe after dating Ondine didn't he move on after the episode Syren 2.If Marinette had a crush on kim then in the previous seasons shouldn't there have been yension between the two Well that's all I got
It’s not Kim’s fault, it’s just terrible storytelling. I refuse to even acknowledge that episode about the prank as canon. It sucks. It never happened. It’s insulting to the audience that we’re supposed to buy that. If Marinette really had such a bad experience with Kim, why does she encourage him to ask out a girl on Valentine’s Day in the first season?! Don’t insult my intelligence like that!
Marinette : a case of some bad writing and people being to harsh and setting double standards Mayor : sucks not as much as most people in the fandom but Nathalie : she slowly turning over a new leaf still bad sometimes Alec : annoying but less now Bob Roth : Ripoff Jagged : what he said Andrè the ice cream man :what he said
he is not entirely good i won't deny that but there are far worse people than him out that and this fandom is quite toxic for the most like straight up sendibg death threats and bullying people just because they like a certain character and or hating a person just because they hate the character they are playing as they even have to like I'm not the character like I like I'm protrating them but that's it that he his sucks less though that redemption was like abandoning your child and leavimg her with an abuser that's also not good but i gurantee you there are far worser people on this planet
@Owell_Owl Stop comparing andre to real people in an attempt to make him seem less worse. You can like a character while acknowledging that they suck and have bad writing. I like chloe, felix and nathalie, yet I can still see that they're terrible people and are not as well written as they should've been.
9:41 To be fair, it is possible to win a race against an elevator if the elevator takes a while to arrive. I successfully beat an elevator up 10 floors when I was about 6
Yeah it all depends on the elevator, like how old is it, how many people use it at what time, how many times does it halt while going up. The elevator at the mall sometimes takes so long to get to the third floor just because it sometimes goes down first and then halts at every floor. It might not be hard to outrun it if youre fast and athletic
@@sailorwinxknighTronic837 because it’s obvious that making Kim the one responsible for Marinette’s trauma was just a last-minute decision of the writers to excuse her controversial behavior in the earlier seasons. Marinette has hated Chloe since S1 and there were hints that Chloe made Marinette’s life miserable in the past, but that’s not the case for Kim. Marinette seemed fine with Kim from S1-S5 and Kim was even revealed to be afraid of spiders; how was he the same person who pulled a prank on her with spiders? He still apologized in Derision.
If Kim was my classmate, I would dismiss him as very stupid and kind of cringe sometimes... But!! I somehow find his friendship with Max kind of wholesome?? The two are kinda dumb cute together 😭😂
Yeah, there are so many positives they could have expanded on. His brain-brawn relationship with max. His Humor (in a better direction). His Goofiness as a way of cheering others up. They never gave him proper development because he was just comic relief.
I dont understand why they had to make an episode justifying the ONE thing we hate abt Marinette. We don't care why you wrote her like that, just stop writing her like that.. as for Kim, I don't hate him specifically but I hate where they took his character and how he acted. I feel like these characters would've been amazing if they just had a grown man writing them instead of a man child who obsessed with the female lead.
it's pretty obvious at this point that the creator and writers didn't really have much of a plan with the show beyond like the first two seasons maybe. They probably had nothing more than the concept of "two teen superheroes fight the evil monster of the week" and built around that. And this isn't a BAD basis or anything, but it seems like the show was then too popular to stop and the whole "monster of the week" thing becomes stale relatively quickly, so they had to make new stuff up to make things interesting, but that didn't work, because they didn't lay the groundwork for the new stuff to make sense. The prime example of this being Marinettes supposed trauma originating from Kim playing that prank on her. Which was revealed AFTER 5 seasons of Marinette treating him like every other classmate. It just doesn't make sense. and it's not that it COULDN'T have made sense, it's just that they didn't lay the groundwork for any of it, just retroactively inserted it. Man, this is the kind of thing that goes in the DRAFT of a story, not the final product! and extending from that: Marinette rightfully treating Chloe like a bully, but then being completely normal to Kim, who is ALSO a bully, and also at LEAST as arrogant as Chloe, with the only difference being that he doesn't actively make it his mission to make everyone miserable, but also Kim utterly lacking any self-awareness. Chloe at least KNOWS she's a bully, but Kim? If you tried to confront him, he'd just be like "what are you talking about, i never bullied you! That was just a joke, you're too sensitive!" or something like that. I read once that most people aren't malicious, just ignorant. But also that sufficiently advanced ignorance is undistinguishable from malice. And I think that this is what's happening with Kim. He's not actively trying to be malicious like Chloe, he's just too ignorant to notice when he IS, and there's a very fine line between those two things. And honestly, i also just think the writers had no idea what to do with him, so they just went "classic meathead jock" and called it a day.
In a fanfic I’m doing where Marinette has a brother I did take the direction that Derision is canon and happened as it was presented in the episode. On a TV Tropes page it’s theorized that Kim had possibly been given a Miraculous because Fu could- “see the person he had grown into,” and honestly I liked that. Now, Kim and Chloe do both receive the brother character’s hatred and the Derision incident prompted his revenge so he actually attacked Chloe and tormented Kim that he developed his phobia of spiders. And in terms of how Marinette may treat Kim normally, she doesn’t. Dark Cupid comes around she tries to lead Alya away and doesn’t want to talk to him and has done her best to act that he doesn’t exist. However she couldn’t articulate to anyone why she has a problem with talking to Kim. It could be possible even in canon that the incident simply didn’t spread as any possible friendships she could have were easily intimidated by Chloe to keep their distance so who would she tell? And to Chloe it may fade to something in the background so she didn’t brag. And even if they did, it’s my headcanon that the incident may as well have been so traumatic she did legitimately suppress that memory. How it plays with my chosen protagonist is that he holds that secret in a way, never pushing her to remember due to the fact that once it was gone, his sister wasn’t in a state where he feared her being left alone with her thoughts… I believe the implications of putting himself “on watch,” are pretty clear. And it’s a fear that drives a lot of his character.
I'll say this for Kim, at least he got a comeuppance from Chloe. A lot of characters don't even experience that when they should. Characters apparently immune to Karma: Audrey, Mr. Mayor, Felix, Gabriel, Ms. Tsurugi, and Marinette (you know, for nearly causing the end of the world 3x). 3x? Yes, 3x. The "best" guardian did so in: 1) Chat Blanc 2) Ephemeral 3) giving the ladybug and cat miraculous to the main villain. My reaction: Face: meet palm.
Or maybe when Felix and Cerise capture him and the whole team one by one each and even compensate their miraculouses from them before replacing with senti-being twin mirror doppelgangers on themselves (except for Kagami of course) and they return coming out better after escaping in the series finale perhaps (similar to Tony Stark's growth as an individual when he used to sell weapons to stop making them when he became Iron Man after being captured in Afghanistan and was held captive in a cave before building his MK I suit and escaping afterwards and returning home a better man)
@@adamcurazi2122 Only if Thomas Astruc is still writing and *NOT* FIRED FROM IT as he should be and just give Jeremy Zag writing control of the show instead there
@@petitepastequeuwu7876 Why not, don't you think it be so much better if he was and *NOT* Astruc when you compare Gabe's arc from the original show and movie adaptation back to back here?
His character has very little consistancy, which means, despite being a bully, I don't actually hate him. It just kinda feels like he becomes whatever the writers need him to become for a scene to work.
Yeah I don't know either why Marinette still let's him have it but I'm sure things will change for him and the whole team in fact when we get to the series finale yet there
@@barbararab6390 And also A) just to trick us to hate Chloe more so he could shut us up about wasting her redemption arc there. and B) just so Marinette can just put mental blocks all over her then just admit that she has a real serious problem there
This show really makes it too easy to hate its "non-villain" characters... Seriously, I think the only characters who have been written as consistently nice people are Mylene and Juleka. And maybe Rose but I'm sorry but Princess Fragrance is just such a creepy episode. Everyone else is the nicest person ever one second before turning into an idiotic douchebag the next. I feel like the entire city of Paris in this universe is just full of two-faced morons.
Okay, I’m just going to say this right here and right now. Derision was does not justify Marinette’s behavior. It explains it, but it doesn’t excuse it in the slightest. It just shows what happens when trauma responses go to far without the necessary help needed. It was also made to call out people who use Chloé’s home life to justify and excuse her bad behavior. Yes, Audrey sucks as a parent and André could’ve been a better father, but that does not excuse Chloe’s bad behavior throughout the series. Heck, Mylène even said that her mom left her and she doesn’t treat people like Chloé does. Chloé’s real problem is lack of discipline. No one had once tried to discipline her until it was too late to do so. She got too in her head that she was untouchable being the Mayor’s brat that the consequences that she finally does get feel like too little too late. If I was writing the show, then both Audrey and André would lose their parental rights and Chloé would be sent to live with a relative that can and will give her the discipline she desperately needs. Does she also need counseling? Yes, but discipline should also be utilized to deal with her. I hate to say it, but it looks like she needs that old school discipline. Also, for people bringing up that she and Kim still talked to each other, even after that. You know she’s a people pleaser, right? She probably decided to pin the whole incident on Chloé in her mind anyway. Which makes her (obsessive) feelings for Adrien even more confusing since that one rule was that her future partner not be friends with Chloé. Luka and Kagami both properly fit this requirement.
@jedyoung767 It's hard to take your comment seriously when in derision mari literally said it's not her fault she's lime this, nor is it adrien's. It's chloe's fault. Which feels more like pinning mari's flaw on chloe than explaining it.
@jedyoung767 Also, mari having trauma all this time is total bs, and her becoming a stalker after the incident makes no sense. Not mention how the way ptsd was portrayed was gross and poorly handled.
@@usernotfound_____yet while I can agree that it was poorly handled, Nettie’s behavior technically isn’t her fault, because the girl didn’t get counseling. Like I said, the episode doesn’t excuse or justify her stalker behavior, just like Chloé’s home life should NOT be an excuse for her bad behavior. And it does make sense as a trauma response that was taken too far without counseling. Also, the whole prank was Chloé’s idea and Kim did go along with it, so in reality, it was both of their faults.
Watching this made me realize a bunch of things that I forgot about Kim in episodes. About him trying to race an elevator, him dancing with Max happily, holding each others' back, and putting on his swimming gear in the Startrain for no reason other than that the train itself is underwater. LOL! I loved how you kept complaining about those like those were actually bad things, but yet, I found them hilarious and just kept laughing. Thank you, because now you made me appreciate Kim more because he's just a hilarious piece of comic relief even though he's a jerk. Petition: I wanna see once Lila is defeated as the butterfly Miraculous holder, that Kim is the next main villain with it. "Fly away, my little Akuma, and evilize her! I'll race you to there myself!" *jumps out through that window and breaks his spine on the sidewalk below, where pedestrians saw him fly out of a building, realizing that's where "Swimmerfly"'s base of operations was* "God dammit! Please don't tell Ondine! Or Chloé!"
@@Unbrickable27 I personally think Alya is a good character, logical and level-headed, also smart and supportive... UNLESS the episode plot needs her to be otherwise. I can't stand the fact she never stood by Marinette when Lila tell any lie that came to her mind, even what she said was completely out of character for Marinette. Mind you, that same Alya stood by Marinette when Befana accused her of lying.
Unpopular opinion: chat noir should be hated way more, i hate marinette but its very hypocritical hating her and then liking chat, he is always harassing ladybug trying to kiss her and confess to her when she said she doesn’t like him Tons of times, she doesn’t enjoy those jokes either, and he knows that, and he gets mad whenever she rejects him, he’s so toxic and ppl barely talk about it
Understandable but most of the time the show does acknowledge the fact Cat Noir is going too far when Ladybug gets mad at him especially in season four, and he completely stops this by season 5,her behaviour towards him is inconsistent sometimes she shows she does enjoy his jokes and plays along with his flirting other times she gets annoyed I feel like their both at wrong/toxic in these kinds of situations tbh he's too pushy and she acts like a hypocrite
I don't dislike Kim. I hate what that the writers clearly made up some BS out-of-nowhere backstory that was used solely to justify Marinette's stalkerish behavior.
The only thing Kim is guilty of (that Astruc ironically hand-waved) is pissing Ivan off, getting him in trouble with Bustier and becoming the first person akumatized.
That, and the fact that Mari kicked Chloe off the team for "secret identity" nonsense considering she later has no problem with Kagami and Alya, whose identities were revealed to others.
@@mayotango1317 the way it was only Chloe who faced consequences for revealing her identity, while the majority of superheroes, including Ladybug (the guardian), got away with the consequences of breaking the rule and were still able to keep their respective miraculouses despite the countless times they told us that any miraculous holder who fails to adhere to the rule would have to renounce their miraculouses.
For Real I hate him I swear to god If he didn’t actually Make miraculous ladybug The show would have been better We Really don’t need him His Favorite Character is marinette Look I love marinette too But I just wished that he didn’t Ruin her
@@FafaRoblox699 Yes, he butchered everyone so bad. And imo especially Mari. Like Mari falling for Adrian was smth special bc she initially HATED HIM bc she thought Adrian was cool with Chloe, a girl who bullied her since she was younger. Then Mari realizes that Adrian is actually a nice guy who could be quite affectionate and falls for him. Then Thomas makes Mari a frickin obsessed stalker and also very rude to Cat Noir as the seasons progress. Like, the romance side of the show could've been amazing since the romance would also conflict with the action/plot of them both being super heros. And I'm not a person who's passionate about romance in shows. I genuinely like shows based on action, but this show actually got me hooked into the romace aspect of it and now I'm disappointed in both the romance and the action :l
True. Character inserts have no place in stories that we're expected to take seriously. Especially when their bias and narcissism hold no bounds as it is.
The writers are just not good at what they do. Kim isn't the only inconsistent character, but most of the side characters are so flat and lack any development and build up that its hard to care if Kim was a bully or not. Sometimes he's a friendly idiot and other times he's an arrogant idiot. Astruc really made sure that the only character we're allowed to hate is Chloe. Kim's presence isn't even that great to be a bully in the show because they cant decide if they want a unique spin on the dumb jock who is close friends with a nerd or make him a stereotypical jock. Maybe if they made more consistent of him being arrogant and him being the male counterpart to chloe in terms of terrorizing his classmates and being a showoff then maybe I'd feel some type of emotion for the guy.
I have some real conflicted feelings about how Astruc wrote the only Vietnamese character considering what the French did to Vietnam... But that's me. After all, it's not like anyone's ethnicity actually gets respectful representation in this show. Kim wasn't written to be anything but the dumb jock stereotype, but like the rest of the cast, consistency isn't a priority. Kim only got the retrospective villain look in derision simply because they needed someone to blame for Marinette's stalker tendencies that had always been played up for comedic value--so Astruc can pretend he was writing smth deep and layered all along. More than likely, he was upset that people tweeted him about how creepy Marinette looked because of his lame idea of comedy and decided to use Kim as a scapegoat to imply Marinette's creep mode is entirely someone else's fault. Except it def isn't bc again, what part of that prank bears responsibility for Marinette creepily sniffing Adrien's pillow? Monologuing to a 'statue', pulling its hair and kissing it? Bffr, astruc
Kim through season 1-3 may have been a jerk, but at least he was an entertaining one. But that Derision episode made him a complete ass hole. He wouldn't have had said that Chloe was the most prettiest girl in front of his girlfriend. Also, how is he going to prank Marinette with spiders if he's afraid of spiders. And Marinette wouldn't continue to give him his miraculous if the events of Derision actually happened
I still like Kim after this. I might be biased due to him being the monkey Miraculous holder, me loving the episode he got his Miraculous, me loving Dark Cupid, or me loving stupid characters. But, he is really just a victim of Astruc, like Chloe, just less noticeable. Yeah, he’s a bully, but we can see he can be nice due to his best friend being Max. Even when he is a douche he usually gets his comeuppance. So, yeah I still like him. Also, his relationship with Max is adorable and his light rivalry with Alix is kinda wholesome.
I wrote a similar comment under Andrè's video. I think Kim was an extremely bad character even before Derision, simply because of how inconsistent he was. He likes Chloè but still makes fun of her and is happy that she's gone. The writers really didn't realize how little sense that made. He simply leaves while he was at the swimming pool with Ondine because he had a date with Chloè. Poor she really deserves someone better. I think he's just such an unsympathetic, unpleasant guy in the first four seasons. He makes fun of everyone, tries to get attention embarrassingly or is just completely stupid. Derision logically made everything worse, the fact that Marinette talked to him normally for the four seasons before doesn't add up at all when you consider that they never talked about it. It would have been much better if the writers had planned this episode in advance and Marinette avoided Kim and didn't really like him. That would have led to interesting speculation until the resolution comes in the 5th season.
In my opinion, Kim is one of the worst characters in Miraculous (along with Mayor Andre and Gabriel). Not only did the creative team make Kim like the dumbest characters in the world, but it's worse that made him Marinette's first crush prior to the series began. He's basically just a plot device to justify Marinette's weird stalker personality in the awful episode, Derision. Plus, it's even worse that in the main story, Marinette is literally still cool with him. Like girl Kim, along with Chloé and Sabrina, pull a horrible prank on you? Why the hell are you still friends with Kim? And why is he still the holder of the Monkey Miraculous? I know that Fu gave him the Monkey Miraculous in the Party Crasher episode, but still, realistically, Marinette shouldn't give Kim the Monkey Miraculous after the shit he pull in the Derision episode. Not even once he apologized to Marinette or showed any remorse of what he did to Marinette. The only time he ever apologized to her was AFTER he got akumatize because he was butthurt after Adrian and that swimmer girl call him out for pulling the horrible prank. And I the creative team even made Kim an asshole in the Origin episodes because he's the reason why Ivan got akumatize in the first place.
@starlaixystar True. However, Sabrina in the Derision and in the first two seasons had no problems going along Chloé's bullying ways. Just like Kim Sabrina never once apologized or showed any remorse for helping Chloé bullying Marinette and the other students. And yet Marinette is cool with her giving her the Dog Miraculous. 🤦♂️
@@movies798 That's what I said. She gave her Miraculous just because Sabrina is a nerd and that's why she has no problem with her. This show literally is trying to tell us that feminine. Girly girls are these bad girls who are the worst in school. They took inspiration from Life is Strange when it comes to potraying teenagers that way. I mean Lila is one of the most prettiest characters and she is potrayed as the evil one despite the fact that Marinette did more evil things than Lila like stalking.
There's some episodes where Sabrina laughs along with chloe, but thanks to Thomas it goes from her bullying with chloe to being forced to. It got confusing, I still wish she apologised 😭
Kim is a victim of bad writing where they need a boy Marinette's age to be a jerk and simp for Chloe. I think the intention is he's a nice guy who likes pranks and is a bit dim. I don't think it's THAT stupid of him to think he's faster than a panther or a lift, he's like what, 14? With no frame of reference for how fast they are and how fast he is? All he knows is he's the fastest kid in the school and one of the most athletic. And I guarantee 100 push-ups isn't absurd. Someone as fit as Kim is supposed to be could easily do 100. I know this because I remember fitness testing in school where they'd mass test us and I'd have classmates who would get to 100. I also think the intent is that Kim is not malicious about the pranks but oblivious to the fact that his pranks aren't funny. But unfortunately he ends up a jerk who is unreasonably stupid and can't keep a consistent character. I also think if they REALLY wanted to come up with an 'excuse' (for the inexcusable) for why Marinette is such a loser stalker, is that Kim should ALREADY HAVE BEEN HER BOYFRIEND and he cheated on her or Marinette thought he did because of Chloe. What should have happened is they should have already been a couple (albeit new), he's Marinette's first boyfriend, and he DOES genuinely like her. Some in-universe event comes up that couples usually would go to, and Chloe overhears Marinette either hyping herself up in the toilets or telling someone like Rose about how she's going to ask Kim after school. So Chloe goes straight to Kim to ask him to help her with something on that day, but not to tell Marinette becasue "she wouldn't understand". Kim, being good-natured but stupid, agrees. When Marinette asks him out, he says he can't because he has swim practice or something. Marinette is bummed but lets it go and decides to just either stay home or go solo. Then sees Chloe posting photos of her out with Kim at that event (either she asked him for help with something AT the event and she'd "make sure Marinette was there" or they're passing through- it's not important) and is heartbroken. To me that would "justify" her needing to know Adrien's schedule (again no excuse for this behaviour but if they want to try and explain it away...) so that she's never misled again.
my theory is that the writers had no plan for who got which Miraculous after Chloe, so they started assigning them as the show went on. that’s why Kim is mean in season 1, but nice after getting his Miraculous, and then reverted because of Astruc (who literally doesn’t care about anyone except Marinette).
The london special trailer is out, and there is a cosmo bug noir? I feel like they are going to try to redeem themselves or give a reason for adrien not being in the season 5 finale
Derision ruined everything a miraculous ladybug rewrite on ao3 It’s a fic on how more fucked up the show would be if derision had it’s actual effects from the get go, it’s really good! That Kim akuma episode is the next chapter, gunna be good can’t wait :), really recommend reading it
11:15 I think Marinette was still pretty awkward in asking out Kim, maybe just had a bit more guts or less fear, but then all that was pretty much was shattered in one moment and she was given heart break, public shame, and ptsd all in that one moment!, and I’m not saying that later in the show she’s not a bit kinda overly cringe, but I mean in her defense it’s really hard to make a stable mental comeback after the internal/external situation she went through and then had no real stable friends and continued to be bullied by Chloe after that situation, I mean ya she might go over board a bit with Adrien here and there, but she’s got that love sick puppy crush feeling in her for him, (and not until she realizes he nice by explaining his relationship with Chloe and giving here the umbrella and apologizing, that one episode) and (she’s not really psycho about it or doing anything harmful) plus she can’t really even get to speak to him in school because of fear of Chloe making her even miserable if she get near him, so this makes it very difficult for her to approach him as a quote; “stable normal person” Marinette is struggling with mental health and past trauma and past current bullying , plus I mean she probably goes threw dealing with puberty which is also very stressful and painful on top of that existing trauma, and her parents seem loving and supportive to some degree but won’t take her side when it really counts and that kinda sucks!! I’m just saying I like this show not just because of cool action, costumes, or what not but also because the world and characters feel relatable, kinda real in some way’s😅. I think if I had this show when I was struggling back in school with all the stuff Marinette was shown dealing with maybe I could have reflected on my self a lot sooner and and maybe stopped myself from some choices i really regretted doing. But I mean just like in the show some of this stuff does exist in irl!: lots of teachers even principles can suck if enough influence is thrown their way, we get strong feelings about crushing on people we can’t sometimes control or process correctly, being bullied because your not popular or not willing to roll over and be a sheep, being stuck in room with only art supplies and video games because you don’t have a strong supporting friend group, I could really go on and listening these things but hopefully my point is made!👌😸 I’m just saying Marinette as only stood up for others and has really nothing wrong (I mean yes she was in Adrien’s room that one time but she had super powers so, that’s more than likely it wouldn’t have happened if she wasn’t a super hero! , other times she was their she saved him from villains!) I’m standing by team Marinette and glad she at least had her 1 supportive friend Alia, 1 more than I ever had! 😅
I remember during the chameleon episode that Lila invented that she had arthritis and that she had tinnitus that's why she needed to sit up front but in reality it was to flirt with Adrien. At lunch Marinette threw a napkin at her and Lila showed good reflexes to catch it there. Marinette said she was lying but then Lila, as always, got angry and said that she once saw that in India someone had hurt their eye with the corner of a napkin. and that she was just trying to save Max and Sabrina told her that they were all going to take her to the infirmary. Mylene also said, are you happy yet? and Kim also told her something like now Lila hurts worse and it's because of you.
People say Zoe is the worst character but in reality look how many characters you told us in the beginning suck. Except in my opinion Marinette cuz like she is the main character, she has to have flaws, and if I start hating her.... I will stop watching the show, simple lol 😅
Zoe is still the worst character because she was written as a replacement for Chloe as a miraculous holder first and only then as character and it shows in how bland she is and in how forced her presence in the show still often feels.
I really hope after the season 5 finale that Chloé gets a redemption arc. Like she realizes that her actions have consciousness and she actually really hurts people. I mean she was even crying at the end so, I guess that's a start right? So hopefully the writers will have a change of heart for Chloé. And agreed, Kim is just that annoying background character that has no purpose at all other than some mere sporty person that bullies people, being stupid, and acts as an excuse for bad character traits that don't even get mentioned, or hinted at for that matter, until season 5
@@dandellieonss Yes, I know that, but they can always change it, like how they did with Adrien being a senti-monster or senti-human or whatever the frick he is. They just changed what he is in season 4, there's no way he'd be classified as a senti-monster in seasons 1-3
You forgot to mention Kagami's mom among the hatable characters, the woman conspires with a shady man to use stolen jewels for artificially creating children, goes on to be an abusive mom to that artificially created daughter until she eventually returns to that shady man and enables him to commit his known terrorism on a larger scale in exchange for an arranged marriage of her daughter against the will of both her and the man's son. And she has yet to face any repercussions, aside from not getting what she wants as that shady man does not hold up his part of the deal when he wins. I hope she teams up with Lila just so she can get what she deserves in the end. lol
Let's hope that this guy and the rest of the other fellow teammates develop more their smooth brain stages when Felix returns to his old ways when he tries to arrange their captures so can transfer them to a facility outside of Earth and into space and even tries replacing some (except for Kagami) with senti-being twin mirror doppelgangers after their captures and take their miraculouses before putting them in them and even stealing some of their lives from them posing as them too and they return developingly changed in the series finale (similar to how Tony Stark went from being a weapons manufacturer to being captured and imprisoned in Afghanistan before building his first Iron Man armor to escape and returning back home after having a change of heart after all that there)
I had a Kim too in my senior year in computer class. Dude bragged about almost getting shot with the gun, the teacher tells him to slip his desk and he literally flips his desk upside down.
I'm sure we'll get more background history on Cerise Bianca when she (alongside Felix) will be the new main anti-villain antagonists for the show after show Gabe there
@@dandellieonss Yeah well I like to see for how long though since if I were him in his place there I would be too happy or pleased that my terrorist uncle was being awarded instead of punished or exposed for his actions and trying to forceable make Kagami and Adrien an item when they weren't seeing each other that way anymore there and gets a hero statue in his honor too since we all know what show Ladybug said wasn't true at all there despite her saying many times in the past before that, that kind of lying is wrong and what kind of example does she set when she tells others like Cerise and hassles them about that before there?
It's really strange how they presented it, too, like with Marinette having no idea why she was struggling so much with dating Adrien... Like this happened maybe last year, or two years ago at most? And until now, she just _completely_ forgot it ever happened even though it's supposedly the reason she actively, intentionally made/kept a promise to herself to make excessive plans and have excessive knowledge about a boy before dating him? Suspension of disbelief never had a chance with a retconned plotline like that.
I say someone say in a comments section that Miraculous does a good job for it's background characters, which is not true. Unless you're important like being the main characters best friend (Alya and Nino for example) then you aren't getting anything. Kim is a good example for when you're only purpose is to explain about the main character, "Derision" was supposed to help Marinettes character but destroyed Kim's.
@@dandellieonss Agree, I always had this idea they'll create a mini team for Marinette and Adrian, Marinette has Alya who she revealed her identity too, Adrien has Nino who she reveals his identity too. But nope, only Marinette and Nino is like you said, forgotten.
To be honest, I don't hate most of the characters (including Chole, oddly enough). What I hate is the writing and decisions were made. Example: why make Chole have a character arc only to ruin it episodes later. Speaking of her, why have the " keep the secret identity" rule only apply to her? Why didn't everyone get replaced once Hawkmoth found out who they are? Why is Kim even friends with Marranet even after the trama he put her threw. Those are some of the things I can think of. I hope that, one day, someone takes the Meraculous Ladybug show and remake it with better story ideas and direction.
There are far worse miraculous holders than Kim. Almost all of the holders are in a relationship; I’d bet Kim would be the only one who’d manage to keep his identity a secret.
@@Icy-be5vl you’ve missed the part that he never revealed his identity of his own will; it was not his fault that he got put under control by Queen Wasp.
Maybe when Felix and Cerise capture him and takes it from him before replacing him with a senti-being twin mirror doppelganger of himself to even steal his life from him there while he just gets to watch as that imposter even steals his Ondine there as well to just for him and her to get back at him too for also being responsible for show Marinette's toxic behavior there too just about as much as anyone else there too
Does anyone else think that Adrien deserves someone better than Mari? That whole “trauma” episode was just an excuse to make Mari look innocent when she’s clearly not. There would be no reason for her to know a boys birthday for her to fall in love with him, it’s just ridiculous that Thomas doesn’t see how wrong this is. And Kim calling Chloe pretty and funny in front of his gf made me annoyed. How can you say that infront of your own gf? His gf ignored what he said right after he apologised to Mari, personally I don’t think he deserves his gf.
I agree with the part about Kim not deserving his girlfriend. As of how the story is going, I do think Kagami would've been better for Adrien or maybe some new girl could be good for Adrien too. But I personally think Adrien and Mari do fit e/o, just that they weren't ready for e/o yet. I'm just gonna cut out the trauma episode bc I rlly do think it's bs. But, we gotta remember HOW Mari fell for Adrien. Mari didn't like him at first bc she thought Adrien was like chloe, a bully. Chloe put gum on Mari's seat and Adrien was trying to clean it, but Mari came in on the wrong time and thought Adrien put the gum on her seat, so she initially hated or at least disliked Adrien. It wasn't until Adrien talked it out with Mari that she realized Adrien was trying to help her, and that's how we get that classic scene of Adrien and Mari standing in the rain. Then she starts to see how sweet of a guy Adrien actually is and that's how she fell for him. This is where it starts to get weird tho. They are all 14-15 in the show, so them pursuing romantic relationships is a bit weird and Mari stalking/obsessing over Adrien is obviously weird and very wrong. Honestly the romance rlly sucks since other love interests were introduced (Luka and Kagami) but both Mari and Adrian could not truly love the other person back and we're back to square one. Anyways, I rlly did like how Mari's and Adrien's romance started, but the way the writers dragged on the romance for 5 SEASONS is so draining (plus the love square). But if they both matured a bit (mostly Mari imo) and could learn to communicate with e/o clearly, I feel that they both would rely on e/o heavily and the romance could be good (plus the writers need to stop making Mari an obsessed stalker bc it ain't cute/quirky it just paints her in a bad light) This rant was longer than i thought.
@@d4red3v1l8 Who else is there? But I know one thing, Adrien deserves a better _Marinette/Ladybug_ , under a better writer, as well as a "grow a pair" arc. If Adrien truly "grew up" in Revolution, why is he still crying like a defenseless snowflake?
No way Kim and Marinette socialize during 4 seasons as normal friends to later tell what Kim did to her, it is so obvious they made it to justify Marinette's toxic attitude at all costs
Yep! You hit the nail on the head!
They just used him as an excuse to way marinette stalks
Not only that, she gave him a miraculous.
Totally, sure Kim is HUGE dummy but to blame him for all of Marinette's toxic disgusting behavior? It was her choice after Kim's stupidity. Why did she entrust him with the Monkey? After Fu gave it to him in the first place at Adrien's party, WITCH SHE HERSELF CRASHED LIKE A IDIOT! Damn girl back off of Kagami's Husband all ready!!
Seriously, Cholé never deserved Pollen/Bee nor did Kim with the Monkey. (Know his name can't spell it.) I would I have preferred Wayhem for Monkey and definitely Sabrina for Pollen.
Everyone have a blessed Saturday July 27, 2024 at 8:18AM. 🌸🔥🌸🔥
@@rosemary3029 yep! Exactly!
Kim's only purpose in that one episode is just to give Marinette an excuse for her posssesive creepyness, basically just an object to push the plot forward, this is how desparatly Astruc wants to display Marinette as the most perfect person to ever exist
Edit: Oh and in the episodes before Marinette's trauma episode, you can see them talking to each other normally as if nothing happened between them, I am convinced that Astruc just made Kim a rushed excuse to stop the Marinette hate and Chloe hype.
I swear they should replace astruc give my boy Adrien some time to shine 😫
She is not kind. The reason why Lila hates her is because Marinette is narcistic and manipulative hypocrite.
No, but that explanation was SO problematic, justifying her behavior rather than addressing it as toxic.
@@starlaixystarMarinette has done a lot of questionable things, but the reason why Lila hates her is because she sees right through her, unlike the others who loses their brain cells whenever Lila is around.
@@dandellieonss Or Lila is the one who knows exactly what kind of person Marinette is and wants protect people from her toxic influence.
Lets face it, Kim being stupid is just a running gag. It was meant to be silly. But THEN they use him to justify Marinette's creepiness, they make him so much of jerk it's beyond comprehension why Marinette even bothered being in the same room as him, and everything went down to flames from then on
The story line they made in Derision probably would have been fine if they didn’t act like Marinette didn’t have a problem with Kim after the event
Also, the way the show portrays kim and chloe's stupidity is gross. It goes from himbo and bimbo energy to flat out brain dead.
@usernotfound_____yet Kim joins the anchor toss competition
Kim - But I can't give up, I have to try, I can do it. I got anchor arms, I'm no wimp, I'm a jerk.
I dont even know how people can hate him, when just like every other tertiary character in their class the guy isnt even A CHARACTER. Astruc changes how he is written on the fly because he genuinely doesnt remember what he is supposed to be doing. I cant hate a character who simply isnt a character
@@felipecouto1102 Kim as other characters
1. Dark cupid 💔
2. Dark humor 🤡
3. King monkey 🐒
4. Manny taur 🐂
5. Le chien muscle kim 💪 (Kim wearing fake arms)
6. Jay 👎 -Houcs Pocus
7. Yao 🇨🇳
8. Animan's prey 🐈⬛️😋😨
Thomas doesn’t seem to understand the difference between explanation and justification. Even if Kim’s actions caused her trauma, that doesn’t justify her stalking behavior. No matter how you twist it, her stalking will never be right. It’s like how abuse victims can still be abusers.
It's funny how they had mylene say that chloe's backstory doesn't justify her actions yet later on in the same episode they had mari say that it's not her fault she's this way IT'S CHLOE'S FAULT!
Her stalking-esque trait, stems from knowing the person better, ever since Kim pull that prank on her.
She tends to be obssesive not to make the same mistake of trusting anyone, especially if they're friends with Chloe.
I think the writer set it up to show despite being a good person, she has glaring character flaws that are obvious to the outsiders/viewers and never the subject themselves.
Besides the show is about people who go through misery and depression, mostly caused by others, and tend to lash out to become metaphorical monsters. And thanks to the Miraculous holders, they help others a bit at a time.
@@sainttan The prank with Kim was just added in last minute to justify her behaviour because people were complaining, it was never planned. The creator himself thinks the stalking is cute and acceptable which is why he added it into the show and portrayed it as perfectly acceptable for 4 WHOLE SEASONS. He doesn't consider it a flaw.
He gave a backstory for her stalking 9 YEARS LATER in season 5 basically pinning all the blame on someone else and STILL not addressing the fact that what she was doing was wrong. It was obviously never planned to be a part of the show and the show is definitely not so clever and metaphorical. Please don't fall for something so shady
"I HATE THIS BOY" next to a scared kim is such a powerful thumbnail, I love it
i was drawn to this video from that first lmao, peak thumbnail comedy
Fr
I HATE THIS BOY! RAAAHH!!
@@hatsunereeeeeku Kim worst fears 😨
1. Spiders 🕷
2. Black panther's 🐈⬛️
@@giacomoaluotto4053 3. black spider panther 😈🐈⬛🕷
The thing about Kim is he is not consistent one day he is a bully and next day he is a nice guy pick a struggle like I felt in season one he was the secondary bully and I thought he and Chloe would date
I think it’s more bad writing on Astruc’s part than being a bad character on Kim’s part 🤷🏼♂️
In an earlier episode Kim himself even stated that he’s afraid of spiders
@@skyskylar4534 what episode?
@@doomdogdog Darkblade
Humans are complicated, Kim's one of those good guys, who are guillible enough to trust Chloe's word, especially since he's in love with her.
To him bullying and pranking are his way to have fun, or even make other people happy, and never thinking that what he's doing was wrong.
That's why Kim was the holder of The Monkey, especially since it was based on the notorious prankster Monkey King, Sun Wukong.
It took five seasons and a terminal illness for nathile to grow a spine and the show tries to make us feel bad
What illness?
@@vectorlopesusing the a broken miraculous is like a demon slayer mark it'll kill you eventually
ngl it worked on me
Yeah and it worked. Although I'm also a simp soooo
Tbf, even tho her redemption arc isn't well done, it's better than every other redemption in season 5, and it made sense in a way, and it wasn't as rushed as the others
Like many characters in the show, he was a victim of bad writing and the status quo.
@@mayotango1317 Man ! Thomas Asstruc really wants us to like Marinette. You think what her dad did to Chat Noir is what Asstruc wants to do to Chloe Fans ?
@@maximelegend8068
Thomas Asstruc is the Joss Whedon of animation, and Chloe is his Charisma Carpenter.
That's why I prefer fanfiction. There it takes advantage of all the potential that the show has wasted.
@@mayotango1317 Exacly. So much potential for this show. That last 8 years, more longer than Inazuma Eleven yet less sucessful.
@mayotango1317 Le chein muscle kim
Kim - Hey, everyone
Guy - Kim, is that you?
Kin walks 🚶♀️ on his hands 🤚
Kim - Who were you expecting?
First he was a good person in season 2 and 3 but they ruined it in season 5 just To give an excuse for Marinette Stalking and make Chloe look bad
Chloe was always bad 😭
@@Lovinzanna not all the time but ok-
EXACTLY! The fact that there are actually fools falling for what astruc did to her after he ruined her arc. He really is that desperate to the point where he has to bring down another character just for marinette to be justified and for Chloe to look worse
@@Lovinzanna She was always bad but not THAT bad. Astruc was just dead set on making the audience dislike her at all costs. The entirety of season 5 was one giant Chloe slander lol
@@kou7191 true! but just saying Lol
The fact mari gave the monkey miraculous to kim multiple times but not the bee jewelry to chloe even though they both caused her "trauma" and even though hackmoth knows their identities makes her a hypocrite
And the fact kim's gf after finding out what he did to the mc and after he called chloe the prettiest and funniest girl in the world, instead of breaking up with him decided to keep their relationship as they were, makes me speechless
Kim literally faced no consequences for his deeds. He was only called out and changed his mind about pranks for no reason
Marinette is hypocrite and evil person.
@@starlaixystar indeed
The fact Kim even needs to learn that he was wrong or that he would say that Chloe is the prettiest girl in the world is beyond wrong as well. Season 2 - 3 Kim would never in a million years do something this horrible. If the writing was consistent this is an incident he would have apologized for ages ago and he also got over his crush on Chloe all the way back in Season 1. He would have never said she's prettier than his girlfriend
@@redram6080 fax
Master Fu was the one to give it to him first though
....wow 60% of Miraculous Ladybug characters are so hatable. That 3 min intro kinda blew my mind.
This shows writing is so funny to me considering how every one of its characters are hated/ disliked in some way
It gets even funnier when you realize how good these characters( and the show in general) would be in the hands of better writers
It's like with every season the good writers got overshadowed by the bad writers cuz there's always some potential but then like the bad writers like no no no let me cook
@@MusicLoveDD EXACTLY!!!!
At least we have Luka
you are so right
should make a video like this about every classmate in miraculous
How do you even do that with the other classmates?
Well most of them are invested in Marinette and Adrien's bizarre love story and try the worst ways to hook them up and to not considering their friends feelings
Well. Alix is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Mylene is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Alya is awful. Toxic. I hate her. Max is ok. I hate Kim. I hate Iwan. I hate Sabrina. Rose is ok. Juleka is great. Chloe is cool. Lila is the best. Ah and Nathaniel is Nathaniel.
@@Icy-be5vl Ok but how are some of them toxic
Well there are definitely some that have stuff to talk about
- Ayla, doesn’t deserve to be Mari’s friend, how do you still believe Lila when Mari is literally LB.
- Nino, Lunatic with some good intentions but terrible executions. Plus dude started a “resistance” with like 10 people, the only reason they achieved anything is bc LB and CN were in their class, had they been in a different class the resistance would have been useless
- Alex, probably the only normal/ self aware/ sane person in their class
- Juleka, mostly ok except for when Luke and Mari broke up. Girl brought a PHOTO of her brother being sad to show Mari, instead of doing what a normal sibling should do like console her brother instead of photographing it.
- Rose, also mostly ok, except of meddling into other people’s relationships
- Sabrina, most sane person #2. She just needs different friends who don’t exploit her and a few therapy sessions.
- Chloe, needed someone else to write her story, not Astruc who think e a 14 year old brat is irredeemable
- Max, also mostly ok, invents things that are helpful and useful. If it weren’t for the meddling into people’s business he’d be 100% fine.
- Nathaniel/ Mark, seriously stop meddling into other people’s business, and Mari should have brought them together in a different way. I mean seriously weren’t they the ones who also helped her invade Gabe’s party in the ep Felix I’m pretty sure?
-Kagami, once again THERAPY, lots of it
-Adrien, DOUBLE THERAPY
So yeah there’s plenty to talk about with these kids
Honestly Derision ruined everything for Kim
It turned him into a monster
Well not really… he did see the error of his ways at the end and he apologised to Marinette for what he did. After much explaining to him by Ondine and Adrien. Paints him more as a dumb jock really
Eh....
Lila is based on a kitsune while Kim is based on sun wukong(all of the characters are based on myth)
The problem is that while sun Wukong is based on immaturity and is meant to be the embodiment of change, he was also a manipulative anti hero who was extremely insightful and was one of the only people in journey to the west with common sense despite not being book smart, allowing him to see most plottwists coming a mile away.
Lila is textbook kitsune, if Kim figured out the identities, was manipulative towards villains and heros and reached the top through physical strength and manipulative while also being so cocky and arrogant he overestimates himself it would make him interesting. He could be a anti hero.
@@lolcatz88 That apology felt sooo forced in
Marinette is a monster.
@@lolcatz88 the dude didn't belive in his own apologie.
The pool prank is worse when you realize how high up they were and Mari fell ON HER BACK. Water is hard, and the higher you are the greater the impact, girl was lucky she could walk immediately after that fall
She was lucky you could say
90% of the students aren't consistent in the way the act and the ones that are are basically cliche archetypes.
I thought this series was over?
I can't hate Kim simply because he is not really a character in and of himself, he is mainly just a plot device personified to push the narrative forward.
Need the gentle giant to become a villain? Here is the bully to mock him and darken his heart. Need a villain of the week? He now is a megasimp that gets his heart broken. Need to turn the MC best friend evil? Have Kim steal her phone and darken her heart. Need a reason to excuse your MC being a stalker? Have Kim break her heart so badly that she decides to just stalk and harass any boy she might like instead of going to therapy.
We only know Kim likes swimming because it came out in relation to a different character. Before that Kim never showed interest in swimming after that he is just randomly stripping to swim in bathtubs, aquariums, pools, rivers, or just because. And even his "Miraculous" episode where he gets his own miraculous the episode is pushing forward someone else's character development and Kim goes in and comes out of the episode exactly the same.
I can't hate a character that isn't really a character. He's just a plot device that the writers whip out when they need something to get from point A to point B.
On one part, I would hate Kim for what happened in DERISION, on a second part, I feel bad for Kim being a victim of bad writing like many characters in the show unfortunately, and on a third part, a lot of Kim's interaction with Marinette makes no sense with the history of DERISION added to the mix which just make the whole history between the two an inserted excuse to justify Marinette's stalkerish behavior.
Now, further explanation in regards to the first part, I would hate Kim for DERISION because part of aspects fit a bit into his personality.
Kim is DENSE for lack of a better word, and I don't mean dense in the hilarious and adorable way, but dense in a way that is extremely annoying and to some extent cruel to others.
Kim has a tendency more often than not to do things for a laugh but never considers what it does to the people affected as long as he gets a laugh out of it until the consequences have to be literally spelled out for him to understand how messed up those "pranks" are.
He gets defensive when called out on his cruel pranks and feels like everyone is ganging up on him, ruining his fun and in his words "doesn't accept how he is"
He tends to mix up fun pranking with cruel jokes and often doesn't see it until he's on the receiving end which is hypocritical that it's fun and games to him until he's hurt and that's when things are too far.
It actually makes sense how he partially fell for Chloe, as he somewhat saw her cruelty as almost equal in meaning to his pranks as long as the wording describing the action are the words "joke" or "prank" then he's sold on the idea until the consequences show up.
Now, explaining further in regards to the second part, I feel bad for Kim's character suffering from poor writing.
Kim's character tends to experience shifts between lacking a kind of social awareness of knowing when his pranks go too far at one point and then having said social awareness to know when it's going too far the next moment and then vice versa again.
Not only that, Kim seems to flipflop from disliking Chloe for being a bully then calling her an amazing girl which makes no sense, does he hate Chloe or not?
Also, unfortunately, I think they just included Kim because the episode named DERISION focused on the Monkey Miraculous which he is the holder of and the fact that tended to pull pranks while being dense as well as the fact that they needed a reason to explain Marinette's stalkerish tendencies, so he became the sacrificial lamb for this cause.
Now, explaining further in regards to the third part, the interactions between Kim and Marinette in earlier seasons and in DERISION doesn't really make sense.
In earlier seasons, Kim and Marinette didn't appear to have any close interactions nor interests that would have shown any reason for a history of Kim being Marinette's first crush.
Plus, if the history in DERISION has indeed been on Marinette's mind, then shouldn't she have expressed to Master Fu about having reservations in trusting Kim with a miraculous as they had a complicated history, so she wouldn't be to eager to trust him, but so far we've seen that Marinette trusted Kim without question as though the historical tension between the two was non-existent until it's mentioned in DERISION and suddenly Kim remembers after 4+ seasons that he played a cruel prank on Marinette which left tension between the the two but the tension didn't exist between the two until it was mentioned now.
Had Kim and Marinette had a closer childhood bond like I've seen it mentioned in some fanfiction, and then it got strained due to a prank that went wrong due to Chloe and not in relation to a crush then that would make sense in a way.
Actually, I don't think they even needed Kim for DERISION the same way the episode JUBILATION, which was in relation to the power of the Pig Miraculous, didn't need Rose who is its holder as the akuma but used Dark Owl, so DERISION could have used anyone or even just Chloe.
The term *DERISION* means *contemptuous ridicule* or *mockery* which falls more on Chloe's part than Kim's.
So the akuma didn't necessarily need to be Kim but could have focused on someone akumatised after being subjected to cruel mockery and was granted the power of uproar in the concept of Derision. The episode could have still confronted Chloe's cruel antagonism towards Marinette which still baffles me on why they decided that Chloe's bullying is suddenly almost homicidally cruel when it wasn't the case before.
Also, if Marinette's experience with how her crush on Kim ended affected how she expresses her love to a person she's in love with, then how come when she was in love with Luka, she was perfectly fine with expressing her love even when she stuttered a bit and she didn't resort stalkerish behavior.
I feel like DERISION and Kim were just needed to justify Marinette's stalkerish flaw with a backstory when it should have just been confronted for what it is, a VERY CONCERNING FLAW that should have been called out than being given a backstory to explain it.
You explained it perfectly.
I feel like they could have even kept the Kim story line if they had showed some earlier tension between the two before Derision. And instead of saying “Kim is the reason I stalk who’s on my roster” they could have said “yea Kim did traumatize me in that moment but I’m not going to use my trauma as a crutch instead it will be my strength to see that this was just one boy and I don’t need to stalk my love interests, I can finally heal”
Marinette is smart and resourceful. If anything, coming up with this bullshit excuse caused more up roar from the fandom.
I love Marinette, but her ass is intelligent enough to know that stalking shouldn’t have been her go to
@@MiraculouslyUnique the stalking was to show kids what not to do in life
@@Owell_Owl You mean NOT to do irl?
@@Owell_Owl that could be it but there’s nothing much that really shows that what’s she’s doing is bad except for Alya telling her
@@MiraculouslyUnique Kim as other characters
1. Dark cupid 💔
2. Dark humor 🤡
3. King monkey 🐒
4. Le chien muscle kim 💪
5. Animan's prey 🐈⬛️😋😨
6. Manny taur 🐂
7. Jay 👎
8. Yao 🇨🇳
Keep in mind that Thomas tries to paint Chloe as a horrible, evil monster with no redeeming qualities for her bullying Marinette but nobody says a thing about Kim going along with the bullying and helping traumatize Marinette in the first place and everyone still treats him like a friend.
This is kinda hypocritical for Thomas and kinda shows how delusional he is
The derision episode just felt so fanfic. There wasn’t signs leading to that and it felt like the writers wanted to excuse Marinette’s creepy behaviour but it caused another character’s downfall
I feel like half the characters in the show have some kind of bad/toxic trait that bleeds into everything they do.
Half of the characters are based on common caricatures (i.e., goth, nerd, jock, etc..) and instead of growing into something more complex, they just devolved into exaggerated versions of their caricatures.
In a show with a capable writer this wouldnt be an issue. Unfortunately astruc doesnt seem to be good at handling this, plus theres also the issues longer running tv shows may face and thats that later seasons have the tendency to drop in quality or become stagnant
@@usernotfound_____yet hell even total drama developes its characters more than this
@hexagonta Totally agree. Also, TDI writers know how to write protagonists antagonists and gray characters (half of the time, at least, which is still more than miraculous writers ever could).
I don't really like any of the characters from this show anymore
People say he's a himbo he's not
Himbos are dumb and kind but Kim is dumb but not kind
I mean, he was a bully in season one but then sort of got better. My issue with him IS season five
@@laureldreams4108It's not his fault. Marinette is the evil one.
He's never consistent, while he can be an idiot and a bully, he doesn't go towards attacking people, physically. He's just a guy that likes to see funny stuff happen.
@@starlaixystar I agree its not his fault my issue with him isn't him, its what the writers made him do
He's meant to be the himbo archetype but the Miraculous writers clearly have no idea what makes himbos so charming. They're more than just 'stupid'
It's funny how the whole episode about Marinette and Kim's past was made to justify Maricreepy's actions and reinforce the idea that Chloé is evil and will never have redemption, but Kim? He's so silly and innocent, of course he can redeem himself and be friends with Marinette, after all, before this episode it's as if this traumatic event had never happened, it seems like they only remembered what happened in this episode
Honestly, him trying to beat the elevator by running up the stairs was one of the reasons I liked him. It reminded me of childhood games me and my classmates would play.
I wanted him to be that guy who used to be a jerk, but later becomes friends with everyone.
Fun fact. According to several sources Kim was based on Tomas Astric when he was in high school.
@@MegaManDBZX proof?
The first 2 1/2 minutes of the video basically sums up that every character in Miraculous sucks.
Don’t judge my opinion but I honestly like the fanfics or comics mlb than the actual show. I know this has nothing to do with what you are saying, but I just had to get this off my chest.
@@kidsshaw7739 Can't blame you. The show is just the Clash of Egos at this point ngl.
@@kidsshaw7739 I don't blame you when you remember the ending of Season 5. Why did it feel so rushed?
@@IbrahimAnser yeah. They honestly should’ve had Kagami as the main protagonist instead of Marinette in my opinion.
@@nobodys_here07 ikr!
I honestly don’t hate him. Because I don’t consider Derision canon. Except the Kimdine moments. Those are cute. Marinette having a crush on him is gross though. Ondine x Kim. Marinette. Stay away!
To admit Derision was canon is to acknowledge that Marinette is moronsexual, with Luka as her attempt to try something new like anyone with a preference.
same Derision doesn't exist for me
and in the other Episodes he is annyoing sometimes but there is no reason for me to hate him
@@Ivypool123Exactly!
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian Too bad it does exist though
I agree 100% Dersion might number 2 worst episode of season 5 to me
Kim is just another victim of the writers's obsession with always giving Marinette an excuse, change my mind.
Astruc is a terrible writer. He makes most of his characters inconsistent af. But Kim… his role in Marinett’s backstory is just an ass pull to justify her worst qualities.
Oh, I agree with all of your thoughts, and have been trying to articulate my feelings on Kim for awhile. Because I actually find it so fascinating that Kim is arugably the biggest bully among the regular miraculous holders---depending on whether you count Chloe, who lost her miraculous at the time of this writing, and how you feel about Sabrina, who was often cheering Chloe on during her bullying---yet Kim is also the only member of the cast outside of Adrien and Marinette to have been chosen for heroism by Master Fu himself. Fu saw this boy and decided that there was goodness in him on parr with what he saw in our main two characters and decided to trust him with what he himself considered to be one of the most powerful weapons in his arsenal. And all I can think is . . .REALLY? Now that we're seemingly going to have all the heros back for the next season, I'm going to be curious to see if they harken back to that.
The narrative is sp weird cause everyone dislikes Chloe in turn they should dislike Kim for how often he bullies others and who would still hand out with him after what he did to Marinette. He didnt even seem sorry about it. Really just pull that plot line out of nowhere
Everyone dislikes Lila for stupid reasons and I mean the fanbase.
@@Icy-be5vlthe fan base doesn't hate Lila for stupid reason they hate her because she's evil she is a liar and that was established from the first episode not to mention she willingly teamed up with Gabriel you know the villain of the show
@@madisonmason9179 Yes. The same Gabriel you feel bad for and call him a good person just like Marinette in the end calls him a good daddy and forgives him. And if you hate character because she is evil then that's completely stupid because that's her role right now and the only person who she is hurting is Marinette Dupan-Cheng. Marinette Dupan-Cheng who deserves to be treated like crap so who is really evil? It's Marinette and her fanbase are truly evil.
@@madisonmason9179 And just don't talk to me again. I don't want again to read your crap about Marinette being not evil. Stalking is evil and Marinette never faced any consequences for what she did. I will never forgive her.
@@Icy-be5vl Would you wrather see le chein Kim
A. Wear inflatable arms 💪
Or
B. Get eaten by animan 🍴
Honestly? Without the bullying in the early seasons I quite liked Kim, he gave stupid himbo in a way.
Then season five happened. I hate the writers for what they did to him
Frr
I hate Kim but he is better than Marinette.
@@starlaixystar real
In earlier season he just had the issue of being pure comic Relief instead of being fleshed out more like the others. And then they dropped this doozy onto us.
I agree, he was more of a lighthearted character that I don't think we're supposed to take seriously. Some of his antics even got a small laugh out of me occasionally just because of how ridiculous they were. He's your typical goofy jock that is obsessed with proving to others how great he is at physical activities.
I read too many Chloe failed redemption hate but I rarely seen anyone look at the tragedy that is Kim. I quit Miraculous Ladybug when they ruined Kim. I rarely see any type of Vietnamese character in shows. And Kim got a spot in me because of that. I actually like the guy and how he got from a near Male Chloe to another good friend of Marinette (Which is what should've happened with Chloe. But Thomas was petty). Then Derision ruined his entire character. All to justify Marinette's stalking and obsessive behavior. That's the moment I quit. I thought I had a chance at Season 2 with Chloe's redemption arc. Then they completely ruined it. I almost snapped at Miracle Queen. Only to keep going for some reason. I haven't touched it since (might put on the pirate hat for the rest of the series and the movie).
I'm not Vietnamese or Asian, but I also felt really disappointed. Like when I heard he was Vietnamese, I thought it was cool for the same reasons, I hardly see any Vietnamese characters in many shows I watch. For them to take his character and ruin it felt so tragic.
@@MarinetteMoreau Exactly my reaction. Except worse for me because I actually Am Vietnamese.
Derision made everyone look awful
-Marinette had her creepiness justified
-Chloe was made to seem worse than she ever was
-Adrien/CN was made out to be a violent hot head. Almost un-aliving Kim and painting it as "protective" was a god awful writing decision
-Kim was just, destroyed
Just truly a mess overall
Kim is like changing his mind every 2 seconds
I like Chloe
I don't like Chloe etc...
What's wrong with him...
The race thing was here for fun and to make us laugh in my opinion, but derision.... Oh... Derision.. Just NO, cat noir is so green flag he is the type of guy that's like "touch her and I will kill you" He is great! 🤭
No fr he is like Kim pissed me off in this episode😭😭
@@MiraculouslyUnique Le chein Kim as other characters
1. Dark cupid
2. Dark humor
3. King monkey
4. Le chien muscle kim
5. Manny taur
6. Jay
7. Yao
8. Animan's prey
Here’s a cool video idea: can you rank the reasons why someone got akumatized from stupid to very reasonable.
There are a lot of things that don't make sense about kim
1.How can kim still be in love with Chloe after dating Ondine didn't he move on after the episode Syren
2.If Marinette had a crush on kim then in the previous seasons shouldn't there have been yension between the two
Well that's all I got
It’s not Kim’s fault, it’s just terrible storytelling. I refuse to even acknowledge that episode about the prank as canon. It sucks. It never happened. It’s insulting to the audience that we’re supposed to buy that. If Marinette really had such a bad experience with Kim, why does she encourage him to ask out a girl on Valentine’s Day in the first season?! Don’t insult my intelligence like that!
Marinette : a case of some bad writing and people being to harsh and setting double standards
Mayor : sucks not as much as most people in the fandom but
Nathalie : she slowly turning over a new leaf still bad sometimes
Alec : annoying but less now
Bob Roth : Ripoff
Jagged : what he said
Andrè the ice cream man :what he said
Buddy don't compare normal people to a sleazy guy who is too busy being a corrupt politician and doesn't have time to be a father to his only child.
@@usernotfound_____yet just move on the guy is not even real
@Owell_Owl Yet you still defend him like he is a real person, and you just compared him to real people. Pick a lane, bro.
he is not entirely good i won't deny that but there are far worse people than him out that and this fandom is quite toxic for the most like straight up sendibg death threats and bullying people just because they like a certain character and or hating a person just because they hate the character they are playing as they even have to like I'm not the character like I like I'm protrating them but that's it that he his sucks less though that redemption was like abandoning your child and leavimg her with an abuser that's also not good but i gurantee you there are far worser people on this planet
@Owell_Owl Stop comparing andre to real people in an attempt to make him seem less worse. You can like a character while acknowledging that they suck and have bad writing. I like chloe, felix and nathalie, yet I can still see that they're terrible people and are not as well written as they should've been.
9:41 To be fair, it is possible to win a race against an elevator if the elevator takes a while to arrive. I successfully beat an elevator up 10 floors when I was about 6
Yeah it all depends on the elevator, like how old is it, how many people use it at what time, how many times does it halt while going up. The elevator at the mall sometimes takes so long to get to the third floor just because it sometimes goes down first and then halts at every floor. It might not be hard to outrun it if youre fast and athletic
*Kim could've apologized to Marinette and be more understanding. Yet Astruc made it so not.*
He apologized to Marinette in Derision.
Yeah he apologized after like….. *5 SEASONS*
@@sailorwinxknighTronic837 because it’s obvious that making Kim the one responsible for Marinette’s trauma was just a last-minute decision of the writers to excuse her controversial behavior in the earlier seasons.
Marinette has hated Chloe since S1 and there were hints that Chloe made Marinette’s life miserable in the past, but that’s not the case for Kim. Marinette seemed fine with Kim from S1-S5 and Kim was even revealed to be afraid of spiders; how was he the same person who pulled a prank on her with spiders?
He still apologized in Derision.
@@dandellieonss Would you wrather see le chein Kim
A. Wear inflatable arms
Or
B. Get eaten by animan
If Kim was my classmate, I would dismiss him as very stupid and kind of cringe sometimes... But!! I somehow find his friendship with Max kind of wholesome?? The two are kinda dumb cute together 😭😂
Yeah, there are so many positives they could have expanded on. His brain-brawn relationship with max. His Humor (in a better direction). His Goofiness as a way of cheering others up. They never gave him proper development because he was just comic relief.
I dont understand why they had to make an episode justifying the ONE thing we hate abt Marinette. We don't care why you wrote her like that, just stop writing her like that.. as for Kim, I don't hate him specifically but I hate where they took his character and how he acted. I feel like these characters would've been amazing if they just had a grown man writing them instead of a man child who obsessed with the female lead.
1:36 I laughed so hard when he said Queen simp 😂😂
it's pretty obvious at this point that the creator and writers didn't really have much of a plan with the show beyond like the first two seasons maybe. They probably had nothing more than the concept of "two teen superheroes fight the evil monster of the week" and built around that. And this isn't a BAD basis or anything, but it seems like the show was then too popular to stop and the whole "monster of the week" thing becomes stale relatively quickly, so they had to make new stuff up to make things interesting, but that didn't work, because they didn't lay the groundwork for the new stuff to make sense.
The prime example of this being Marinettes supposed trauma originating from Kim playing that prank on her. Which was revealed AFTER 5 seasons of Marinette treating him like every other classmate. It just doesn't make sense. and it's not that it COULDN'T have made sense, it's just that they didn't lay the groundwork for any of it, just retroactively inserted it. Man, this is the kind of thing that goes in the DRAFT of a story, not the final product!
and extending from that: Marinette rightfully treating Chloe like a bully, but then being completely normal to Kim, who is ALSO a bully, and also at LEAST as arrogant as Chloe, with the only difference being that he doesn't actively make it his mission to make everyone miserable, but also Kim utterly lacking any self-awareness. Chloe at least KNOWS she's a bully, but Kim? If you tried to confront him, he'd just be like "what are you talking about, i never bullied you! That was just a joke, you're too sensitive!" or something like that.
I read once that most people aren't malicious, just ignorant. But also that sufficiently advanced ignorance is undistinguishable from malice. And I think that this is what's happening with Kim. He's not actively trying to be malicious like Chloe, he's just too ignorant to notice when he IS, and there's a very fine line between those two things.
And honestly, i also just think the writers had no idea what to do with him, so they just went "classic meathead jock" and called it a day.
In a fanfic I’m doing where Marinette has a brother I did take the direction that Derision is canon and happened as it was presented in the episode. On a TV Tropes page it’s theorized that Kim had possibly been given a Miraculous because Fu could- “see the person he had grown into,” and honestly I liked that. Now, Kim and Chloe do both receive the brother character’s hatred and the Derision incident prompted his revenge so he actually attacked Chloe and tormented Kim that he developed his phobia of spiders.
And in terms of how Marinette may treat Kim normally, she doesn’t. Dark Cupid comes around she tries to lead Alya away and doesn’t want to talk to him and has done her best to act that he doesn’t exist. However she couldn’t articulate to anyone why she has a problem with talking to Kim. It could be possible even in canon that the incident simply didn’t spread as any possible friendships she could have were easily intimidated by Chloe to keep their distance so who would she tell? And to Chloe it may fade to something in the background so she didn’t brag. And even if they did, it’s my headcanon that the incident may as well have been so traumatic she did legitimately suppress that memory.
How it plays with my chosen protagonist is that he holds that secret in a way, never pushing her to remember due to the fact that once it was gone, his sister wasn’t in a state where he feared her being left alone with her thoughts… I believe the implications of putting himself “on watch,” are pretty clear. And it’s a fear that drives a lot of his character.
Woah- Don't think I've ever been this early to ANY video
Me too
same
Fr
Same
Ikr
I hate Kim as well but what they did with him in derision is completely unfair. Even for Kim.
I'm honestly surprised that Ondine didn't break up with Kim after the way he acted in Derision.
I only hate fictional characters if they’re existence sends a bad message to the audience, or everything they do is excused.
I'll say this for Kim, at least he got a comeuppance from Chloe. A lot of characters don't even experience that when they should. Characters apparently immune to Karma: Audrey, Mr. Mayor, Felix, Gabriel, Ms. Tsurugi, and Marinette (you know, for nearly causing the end of the world 3x). 3x? Yes, 3x. The "best" guardian did so in: 1) Chat Blanc 2) Ephemeral 3) giving the ladybug and cat miraculous to the main villain. My reaction: Face: meet palm.
I honestly hope Kim gets some character development in season 6
Or maybe when Felix and Cerise capture him and the whole team one by one each and even compensate their miraculouses from them before replacing with senti-being twin mirror doppelgangers on themselves (except for Kagami of course) and they return coming out better after escaping in the series finale perhaps (similar to Tony Stark's growth as an individual when he used to sell weapons to stop making them when he became Iron Man after being captured in Afghanistan and was held captive in a cave before building his MK I suit and escaping afterwards and returning home a better man)
Season 6 would be just worse
@@adamcurazi2122 Only if Thomas Astruc is still writing and *NOT* FIRED FROM IT as he should be and just give Jeremy Zag writing control of the show instead there
@@hunterrousseau3770no not Jeremy 💀
@@petitepastequeuwu7876 Why not, don't you think it be so much better if he was and *NOT* Astruc when you compare Gabe's arc from the original show and movie adaptation back to back here?
So.... I never expected this.
His character has very little consistancy, which means, despite being a bully, I don't actually hate him. It just kinda feels like he becomes whatever the writers need him to become for a scene to work.
What I hate the most is that in the episode darkblade he himself stated that he’s afraid of spiders
@@skyskylar4534 And black panther's
How tf is he the monkey miraculous. Thats an insult to the monkey king
Yeah I don't know either why Marinette still let's him have it but I'm sure things will change for him and the whole team in fact when we get to the series finale yet there
@@hunterrousseau3770 because the whole trauma thing was taken out of astruc's ass (truck). They never planned it and it shows
@@barbararab6390 And also A) just to trick us to hate Chloe more so he could shut us up about wasting her redemption arc there. and B) just so Marinette can just put mental blocks all over her then just admit that she has a real serious problem there
This show really makes it too easy to hate its "non-villain" characters... Seriously, I think the only characters who have been written as consistently nice people are Mylene and Juleka. And maybe Rose but I'm sorry but Princess Fragrance is just such a creepy episode. Everyone else is the nicest person ever one second before turning into an idiotic douchebag the next. I feel like the entire city of Paris in this universe is just full of two-faced morons.
Okay, I’m just going to say this right here and right now. Derision was does not justify Marinette’s behavior. It explains it, but it doesn’t excuse it in the slightest. It just shows what happens when trauma responses go to far without the necessary help needed. It was also made to call out people who use Chloé’s home life to justify and excuse her bad behavior. Yes, Audrey sucks as a parent and André could’ve been a better father, but that does not excuse Chloe’s bad behavior throughout the series. Heck, Mylène even said that her mom left her and she doesn’t treat people like Chloé does. Chloé’s real problem is lack of discipline. No one had once tried to discipline her until it was too late to do so. She got too in her head that she was untouchable being the Mayor’s brat that the consequences that she finally does get feel like too little too late. If I was writing the show, then both Audrey and André would lose their parental rights and Chloé would be sent to live with a relative that can and will give her the discipline she desperately needs. Does she also need counseling? Yes, but discipline should also be utilized to deal with her. I hate to say it, but it looks like she needs that old school discipline.
Also, for people bringing up that she and Kim still talked to each other, even after that. You know she’s a people pleaser, right? She probably decided to pin the whole incident on Chloé in her mind anyway. Which makes her (obsessive) feelings for Adrien even more confusing since that one rule was that her future partner not be friends with Chloé. Luka and Kagami both properly fit this requirement.
@jedyoung767 It's hard to take your comment seriously when in derision mari literally said it's not her fault she's lime this, nor is it adrien's. It's chloe's fault. Which feels more like pinning mari's flaw on chloe than explaining it.
@jedyoung767 Also, mari having trauma all this time is total bs, and her becoming a stalker after the incident makes no sense. Not mention how the way ptsd was portrayed was gross and poorly handled.
@@usernotfound_____yet while I can agree that it was poorly handled, Nettie’s behavior technically isn’t her fault, because the girl didn’t get counseling. Like I said, the episode doesn’t excuse or justify her stalker behavior, just like Chloé’s home life should NOT be an excuse for her bad behavior. And it does make sense as a trauma response that was taken too far without counseling. Also, the whole prank was Chloé’s idea and Kim did go along with it, so in reality, it was both of their faults.
Bro I’ve always have hated Kim!!! And when that episode came out in season 5 it proved my point to why I hate him
Watching this made me realize a bunch of things that I forgot about Kim in episodes. About him trying to race an elevator, him dancing with Max happily, holding each others' back, and putting on his swimming gear in the Startrain for no reason other than that the train itself is underwater. LOL!
I loved how you kept complaining about those like those were actually bad things, but yet, I found them hilarious and just kept laughing. Thank you, because now you made me appreciate Kim more because he's just a hilarious piece of comic relief even though he's a jerk.
Petition: I wanna see once Lila is defeated as the butterfly Miraculous holder, that Kim is the next main villain with it. "Fly away, my little Akuma, and evilize her! I'll race you to there myself!" *jumps out through that window and breaks his spine on the sidewalk below, where pedestrians saw him fly out of a building, realizing that's where "Swimmerfly"'s base of operations was* "God dammit! Please don't tell Ondine! Or Chloé!"
I genuinely am beginning to think there's no good characters in this show
How about Nathaniel and Juleka? Dunno why, those two came to my mind first.
@@ShubiToorus fair enough, there not exactly main characters tho. But now that I think about it Luka is a bit of a G
@@Unbrickable27 I personally think Alya is a good character, logical and level-headed, also smart and supportive... UNLESS the episode plot needs her to be otherwise. I can't stand the fact she never stood by Marinette when Lila tell any lie that came to her mind, even what she said was completely out of character for Marinette. Mind you, that same Alya stood by Marinette when Befana accused her of lying.
@@ShubiToorusI hate Nathaniel for trying to kill Chloe. But Juleka is cool. I like her and Lila is the best.
@@ShubiToorusNo. Alya is toxic tomboy who has even worse influence on Marinette. I hate her.
Unpopular opinion: chat noir should be hated way more, i hate marinette but its very hypocritical hating her and then liking chat, he is always harassing ladybug trying to kiss her and confess to her when she said she doesn’t like him Tons of times, she doesn’t enjoy those jokes either, and he knows that, and he gets mad whenever she rejects him, he’s so toxic and ppl barely talk about it
Understandable but most of the time the show does acknowledge the fact Cat Noir is going too far when Ladybug gets mad at him especially in season four, and he completely stops this by season 5,her behaviour towards him is inconsistent sometimes she shows she does enjoy his jokes and plays along with his flirting other times she gets annoyed
I feel like their both at wrong/toxic in these kinds of situations tbh he's too pushy and she acts like a hypocrite
Yeah but fandom doesn’t get it and starts hating on ladybug, and the show also shows how Ladybug is “wrong” for getting mad at him
I don't dislike Kim. I hate what that the writers clearly made up some BS out-of-nowhere backstory that was used solely to justify Marinette's stalkerish behavior.
Same also YO THE SMOKE FINDER MICHA
The only thing Kim is guilty of (that Astruc ironically hand-waved) is pissing Ivan off, getting him in trouble with Bustier and becoming the first person akumatized.
The fact that she still gives him a miraculous is actually insane to me like this man is EVIL
That, and the fact that Mari kicked Chloe off the team for "secret identity" nonsense considering she later has no problem with Kagami and Alya, whose identities were revealed to others.
@@mayotango1317 REAL
@@PichuFr Yes, Mari is a big hypocrite.
@@mayotango1317 the way it was only Chloe who faced consequences for revealing her identity, while the majority of superheroes, including Ladybug (the guardian), got away with the consequences of breaking the rule and were still able to keep their respective miraculouses despite the countless times they told us that any miraculous holder who fails to adhere to the rule would have to renounce their miraculouses.
Marinette is evil and is hypocrite.
Derision was made to excuse Marinette's stalkish behavior and to nuke Kim + Chloe's characters.
The characther i most hate in miraculous will always be thomas astruc 🥰
For Real I hate him I swear to god If he didn’t actually Make miraculous ladybug The show would have been better We Really don’t need him His Favorite Character is marinette Look I love marinette too But I just wished that he didn’t Ruin her
@@FafaRoblox699 Yes, he butchered everyone so bad. And imo especially Mari. Like Mari falling for Adrian was smth special bc she initially HATED HIM bc she thought Adrian was cool with Chloe, a girl who bullied her since she was younger. Then Mari realizes that Adrian is actually a nice guy who could be quite affectionate and falls for him. Then Thomas makes Mari a frickin obsessed stalker and also very rude to Cat Noir as the seasons progress. Like, the romance side of the show could've been amazing since the romance would also conflict with the action/plot of them both being super heros.
And I'm not a person who's passionate about romance in shows. I genuinely like shows based on action, but this show actually got me hooked into the romace aspect of it and now I'm disappointed in both the romance and the action :l
True. Character inserts have no place in stories that we're expected to take seriously. Especially when their bias and narcissism hold no bounds as it is.
8:37 I'm dying LMAOOO 😭😭😭
I was so unexpectedly
SAME THAT WAS SO FUNNY
7:04 I don't have my childhood plushies anymore.
I didn't toss them I gave them to younger kids when I felt I got too old for them
The writers are just not good at what they do. Kim isn't the only inconsistent character, but most of the side characters are so flat and lack any development and build up that its hard to care if Kim was a bully or not. Sometimes he's a friendly idiot and other times he's an arrogant idiot. Astruc really made sure that the only character we're allowed to hate is Chloe. Kim's presence isn't even that great to be a bully in the show because they cant decide if they want a unique spin on the dumb jock who is close friends with a nerd or make him a stereotypical jock. Maybe if they made more consistent of him being arrogant and him being the male counterpart to chloe in terms of terrorizing his classmates and being a showoff then maybe I'd feel some type of emotion for the guy.
I have some real conflicted feelings about how Astruc wrote the only Vietnamese character considering what the French did to Vietnam... But that's me. After all, it's not like anyone's ethnicity actually gets respectful representation in this show.
Kim wasn't written to be anything but the dumb jock stereotype, but like the rest of the cast, consistency isn't a priority. Kim only got the retrospective villain look in derision simply because they needed someone to blame for Marinette's stalker tendencies that had always been played up for comedic value--so Astruc can pretend he was writing smth deep and layered all along.
More than likely, he was upset that people tweeted him about how creepy Marinette looked because of his lame idea of comedy and decided to use Kim as a scapegoat to imply Marinette's creep mode is entirely someone else's fault.
Except it def isn't bc again, what part of that prank bears responsibility for Marinette creepily sniffing Adrien's pillow? Monologuing to a 'statue', pulling its hair and kissing it? Bffr, astruc
Kim also gets the most chaotic miraculous. What could go wrong...
Kim through season 1-3 may have been a jerk, but at least he was an entertaining one. But that Derision episode made him a complete ass hole. He wouldn't have had said that Chloe was the most prettiest girl in front of his girlfriend. Also, how is he going to prank Marinette with spiders if he's afraid of spiders. And Marinette wouldn't continue to give him his miraculous if the events of Derision actually happened
I still like Kim after this. I might be biased due to him being the monkey Miraculous holder, me loving the episode he got his Miraculous, me loving Dark Cupid, or me loving stupid characters. But, he is really just a victim of Astruc, like Chloe, just less noticeable. Yeah, he’s a bully, but we can see he can be nice due to his best friend being Max. Even when he is a douche he usually gets his comeuppance. So, yeah I still like him. Also, his relationship with Max is adorable and his light rivalry with Alix is kinda wholesome.
To be honest .No ,h'es not a bully 💀He just too dumb to understand that his action are kinda cringe and very annoying
I wrote a similar comment under Andrè's video. I think Kim was an extremely bad character even before Derision, simply because of how inconsistent he was. He likes Chloè but still makes fun of her and is happy that she's gone. The writers really didn't realize how little sense that made.
He simply leaves while he was at the swimming pool with Ondine because he had a date with Chloè. Poor she really deserves someone better. I think he's just such an unsympathetic, unpleasant guy in the first four seasons. He makes fun of everyone, tries to get attention embarrassingly or is just completely stupid. Derision logically made everything worse, the fact that Marinette talked to him normally for the four seasons before doesn't add up at all when you consider that they never talked about it. It would have been much better if the writers had planned this episode in advance and Marinette avoided Kim and didn't really like him. That would have led to interesting speculation until the resolution comes in the 5th season.
In my opinion, Kim is one of the worst characters in Miraculous (along with Mayor Andre and Gabriel). Not only did the creative team make Kim like the dumbest characters in the world, but it's worse that made him Marinette's first crush prior to the series began. He's basically just a plot device to justify Marinette's weird stalker personality in the awful episode, Derision. Plus, it's even worse that in the main story, Marinette is literally still cool with him. Like girl Kim, along with Chloé and Sabrina, pull a horrible prank on you? Why the hell are you still friends with Kim? And why is he still the holder of the Monkey Miraculous? I know that Fu gave him the Monkey Miraculous in the Party Crasher episode, but still, realistically, Marinette shouldn't give Kim the Monkey Miraculous after the shit he pull in the Derision episode. Not even once he apologized to Marinette or showed any remorse of what he did to Marinette. The only time he ever apologized to her was AFTER he got akumatize because he was butthurt after Adrian and that swimmer girl call him out for pulling the horrible prank. And I the creative team even made Kim an asshole in the Origin episodes because he's the reason why Ivan got akumatize in the first place.
And of course Marinette forgives Sabrina because Sabrina is a nerd but has problem with Chloe.
@starlaixystar True. However, Sabrina in the Derision and in the first two seasons had no problems going along Chloé's bullying ways. Just like Kim Sabrina never once apologized or showed any remorse for helping Chloé bullying Marinette and the other students. And yet Marinette is cool with her giving her the Dog Miraculous. 🤦♂️
@@movies798 That's what I said. She gave her Miraculous just because Sabrina is a nerd and that's why she has no problem with her. This show literally is trying to tell us that feminine. Girly girls are these bad girls who are the worst in school. They took inspiration from Life is Strange when it comes to potraying teenagers that way. I mean Lila is one of the most prettiest characters and she is potrayed as the evil one despite the fact that Marinette did more evil things than Lila like stalking.
@@starlaixystarShe forgave Sabrina because she knew that Chole was mistreating her and manipulated her into submission
There's some episodes where Sabrina laughs along with chloe, but thanks to Thomas it goes from her bullying with chloe to being forced to. It got confusing, I still wish she apologised 😭
I think Kin is "mentally challenged" that's the only reason they would be so forgiving towards him (and explain his actions)
2:12 the magazine 💀
I have always hated this boy 💀- always going against his friends bc of simping for Chloe
@@KayterinMaimay That's the only good thing about him and Marinette deserves to feel pain.
@@Icy-be5vl ok Marinette hater :)
@@Icy-be5vl what?????? That boy is a simp 💀, Chloe is actually anyoneing and marinate dose not deserve pain
@@Icy-be5vlThe amount of hate you feel to a fictional 14 year old girl is insane 😂😂
@@user-qurtrs1637 Yes she deserves and I am a girl like Chloe. Girl who doesn't like stalker and thiefts.
Kim is a victim of bad writing where they need a boy Marinette's age to be a jerk and simp for Chloe. I think the intention is he's a nice guy who likes pranks and is a bit dim. I don't think it's THAT stupid of him to think he's faster than a panther or a lift, he's like what, 14? With no frame of reference for how fast they are and how fast he is? All he knows is he's the fastest kid in the school and one of the most athletic. And I guarantee 100 push-ups isn't absurd. Someone as fit as Kim is supposed to be could easily do 100. I know this because I remember fitness testing in school where they'd mass test us and I'd have classmates who would get to 100. I also think the intent is that Kim is not malicious about the pranks but oblivious to the fact that his pranks aren't funny.
But unfortunately he ends up a jerk who is unreasonably stupid and can't keep a consistent character.
I also think if they REALLY wanted to come up with an 'excuse' (for the inexcusable) for why Marinette is such a loser stalker, is that Kim should ALREADY HAVE BEEN HER BOYFRIEND and he cheated on her or Marinette thought he did because of Chloe. What should have happened is they should have already been a couple (albeit new), he's Marinette's first boyfriend, and he DOES genuinely like her. Some in-universe event comes up that couples usually would go to, and Chloe overhears Marinette either hyping herself up in the toilets or telling someone like Rose about how she's going to ask Kim after school. So Chloe goes straight to Kim to ask him to help her with something on that day, but not to tell Marinette becasue "she wouldn't understand". Kim, being good-natured but stupid, agrees. When Marinette asks him out, he says he can't because he has swim practice or something. Marinette is bummed but lets it go and decides to just either stay home or go solo. Then sees Chloe posting photos of her out with Kim at that event (either she asked him for help with something AT the event and she'd "make sure Marinette was there" or they're passing through- it's not important) and is heartbroken. To me that would "justify" her needing to know Adrien's schedule (again no excuse for this behaviour but if they want to try and explain it away...) so that she's never misled again.
my theory is that the writers had no plan for who got which Miraculous after Chloe, so they started assigning them as the show went on. that’s why Kim is mean in season 1, but nice after getting his Miraculous, and then reverted because of Astruc (who literally doesn’t care about anyone except Marinette).
Literally everyone to Kim after derision came into existence:”you poor unfortunate soul”
Adrien was straight up ready to murder Kim in Derision
The london special trailer is out, and there is a cosmo bug noir? I feel like they are going to try to redeem themselves or give a reason for adrien not being in the season 5 finale
Derision ruined everything a miraculous ladybug rewrite on ao3
It’s a fic on how more fucked up the show would be if derision had it’s actual effects from the get go, it’s really good! That Kim akuma episode is the next chapter, gunna be good can’t wait :), really recommend reading it
Kim is not fleshed out so I can’t defend him 😂
The only Kim moment in Party Crasher he gets a Miraculous and becomes King Monkey
11:15 I think Marinette was still pretty awkward in asking out Kim, maybe just had a bit more guts or less fear, but then all that was pretty much was shattered in one moment and she was given heart break, public shame, and ptsd all in that one moment!, and I’m not saying that later in the show she’s not a bit kinda overly cringe, but I mean in her defense it’s really hard to make a stable mental comeback after the internal/external situation she went through and then had no real stable friends and continued to be bullied by Chloe after that situation, I mean ya she might go over board a bit with Adrien here and there, but she’s got that love sick puppy crush feeling in her for him, (and not until she realizes he nice by explaining his relationship with Chloe and giving here the umbrella and apologizing, that one episode) and (she’s not really psycho about it or doing anything harmful) plus she can’t really even get to speak to him in school because of fear of Chloe making her even miserable if she get near him, so this makes it very difficult for her to approach him as a quote; “stable normal person” Marinette is struggling with mental health and past trauma and past current bullying , plus I mean she probably goes threw dealing with puberty which is also very stressful and painful on top of that existing trauma, and her parents seem loving and supportive to some degree but won’t take her side when it really counts and that kinda sucks!! I’m just saying I like this show not just because of cool action, costumes, or what not but also because the world and characters feel relatable, kinda real in some way’s😅. I think if I had this show when I was struggling back in school with all the stuff Marinette was shown dealing with maybe I could have reflected on my self a lot sooner and and maybe stopped myself from some choices i really regretted doing. But I mean just like in the show some of this stuff does exist in irl!: lots of teachers even principles can suck if enough influence is thrown their way, we get strong feelings about crushing on people we can’t sometimes control or process correctly, being bullied because your not popular or not willing to roll over and be a sheep, being stuck in room with only art supplies and video games because you don’t have a strong supporting friend group, I could really go on and listening these things but hopefully my point is made!👌😸 I’m just saying Marinette as only stood up for others and has really nothing wrong (I mean yes she was in Adrien’s room that one time but she had super powers so, that’s more than likely it wouldn’t have happened if she wasn’t a super hero! , other times she was their she saved him from villains!) I’m standing by team Marinette and glad she at least had her 1 supportive friend Alia, 1 more than I ever had! 😅
I remember during the chameleon episode that Lila invented that she had arthritis and that she had tinnitus that's why she needed to sit up front but in reality it was to flirt with Adrien. At lunch Marinette threw a napkin at her and Lila showed good reflexes to catch it there. Marinette said she was lying but then Lila, as always, got angry and said that she once saw that in India someone had hurt their eye with the corner of a napkin. and that she was just trying to save Max and Sabrina told her that they were all going to take her to the infirmary. Mylene also said, are you happy yet? and Kim also told her something like now Lila hurts worse and it's because of you.
People say Zoe is the worst character but in reality look how many characters you told us in the beginning suck. Except in my opinion Marinette cuz like she is the main character, she has to have flaws, and if I start hating her.... I will stop watching the show, simple lol 😅
Zoe is one of the worst characters because she is completely fake. We hate fake characters.
Does anyone know how old Zoe is? There’s no way she’s the same age as Chloe.
Zoe is still the worst character because she was written as a replacement for Chloe as a miraculous holder first and only then as character and it shows in how bland she is and in how forced her presence in the show still often feels.
@Sparklecakes13 Zoe is younger than Marinette's like 8th grade
I really hope after the season 5 finale that Chloé gets a redemption arc. Like she realizes that her actions have consciousness and she actually really hurts people. I mean she was even crying at the end so, I guess that's a start right? So hopefully the writers will have a change of heart for Chloé. And agreed, Kim is just that annoying background character that has no purpose at all other than some mere sporty person that bullies people, being stupid, and acts as an excuse for bad character traits that don't even get mentioned, or hinted at for that matter, until season 5
We’d all love that, but the writers have already made it clear that they have no plans on redeeming Chloe.
@@dandellieonss Yes, I know that, but they can always change it, like how they did with Adrien being a senti-monster or senti-human or whatever the frick he is. They just changed what he is in season 4, there's no way he'd be classified as a senti-monster in seasons 1-3
@@thatsneverokay It was actually Adrian's cousin, Felix, that waws a senti-monster. Not Adrian
@@Joshua19189 Félix was hinting at Adrien being a senti-monster
You forgot to mention Kagami's mom among the hatable characters, the woman conspires with a shady man to use stolen jewels for artificially creating children, goes on to be an abusive mom to that artificially created daughter until she eventually returns to that shady man and enables him to commit his known terrorism on a larger scale in exchange for an arranged marriage of her daughter against the will of both her and the man's son. And she has yet to face any repercussions, aside from not getting what she wants as that shady man does not hold up his part of the deal when he wins. I hope she teams up with Lila just so she can get what she deserves in the end. lol
Rip kim's characterisation. It'll be missed :'(
Let's hope that this guy and the rest of the other fellow teammates develop more their smooth brain stages when Felix returns to his old ways when he tries to arrange their captures so can transfer them to a facility outside of Earth and into space and even tries replacing some (except for Kagami) with senti-being twin mirror doppelgangers after their captures and take their miraculouses before putting them in them and even stealing some of their lives from them posing as them too and they return developingly changed in the series finale (similar to how Tony Stark went from being a weapons manufacturer to being captured and imprisoned in Afghanistan before building his first Iron Man armor to escape and returning back home after having a change of heart after all that there)
I had a Kim too in my senior year in computer class. Dude bragged about almost getting shot with the gun, the teacher tells him to slip his desk and he literally flips his desk upside down.
I'm sure we'll get more background history on Cerise Bianca when she (alongside Felix) will be the new main anti-villain antagonists for the show after show Gabe there
Felix is now part of the Miraculous team, he’s not gonna be a main antagonist.
@@dandellieonss Yeah well I like to see for how long though since if I were him in his place there I would be too happy or pleased that my terrorist uncle was being awarded instead of punished or exposed for his actions and trying to forceable make Kagami and Adrien an item when they weren't seeing each other that way anymore there and gets a hero statue in his honor too since we all know what show Ladybug said wasn't true at all there despite her saying many times in the past before that, that kind of lying is wrong and what kind of example does she set when she tells others like Cerise and hassles them about that before there?
It's really strange how they presented it, too, like with Marinette having no idea why she was struggling so much with dating Adrien... Like this happened maybe last year, or two years ago at most? And until now, she just _completely_ forgot it ever happened even though it's supposedly the reason she actively, intentionally made/kept a promise to herself to make excessive plans and have excessive knowledge about a boy before dating him? Suspension of disbelief never had a chance with a retconned plotline like that.
I say someone say in a comments section that Miraculous does a good job for it's background characters, which is not true. Unless you're important like being the main characters best friend (Alya and Nino for example) then you aren't getting anything. Kim is a good example for when you're only purpose is to explain about the main character, "Derision" was supposed to help Marinettes character but destroyed Kim's.
Nino was also done dirty tho. They literally forgot about his friendship with Adrien.
@@dandellieonss Agree, I always had this idea they'll create a mini team for Marinette and Adrian, Marinette has Alya who she revealed her identity too, Adrien has Nino who she reveals his identity too. But nope, only Marinette and Nino is like you said, forgotten.
I so wish Cat Noir would've cataclysmed him, Miraculous would've gonna rank up so baddd 😔😔
That would make him a murderer
To be honest, I don't hate most of the characters (including Chole, oddly enough). What I hate is the writing and decisions were made. Example: why make Chole have a character arc only to ruin it episodes later. Speaking of her, why have the " keep the secret identity" rule only apply to her? Why didn't everyone get replaced once Hawkmoth found out who they are? Why is Kim even friends with Marranet even after the trama he put her threw. Those are some of the things I can think of. I hope that, one day, someone takes the Meraculous Ladybug show and remake it with better story ideas and direction.
Honestly why does he even have a miraculous? I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up losing it
There are far worse miraculous holders than Kim.
Almost all of the holders are in a relationship; I’d bet Kim would be the only one who’d manage to keep his identity a secret.
@@dandellieonssWell they know his indentity.
@@Icy-be5vl you’ve missed the part that he never revealed his identity of his own will; it was not his fault that he got put under control by Queen Wasp.
@@dandellieonss Ah I guess.
Maybe when Felix and Cerise capture him and takes it from him before replacing him with a senti-being twin mirror doppelganger of himself to even steal his life from him there while he just gets to watch as that imposter even steals his Ondine there as well to just for him and her to get back at him too for also being responsible for show Marinette's toxic behavior there too just about as much as anyone else there too
I thought i was the only one who hates him that much!
Thank you for making this video 😭
This video was posted on my birthday💙 I 💙 Miraculous 💙
Does anyone else think that Adrien deserves someone better than Mari?
That whole “trauma” episode was just an excuse to make Mari look innocent when she’s clearly not.
There would be no reason for her to know a boys birthday for her to fall in love with him, it’s just ridiculous that Thomas doesn’t see how wrong this is.
And Kim calling Chloe pretty and funny in front of his gf made me annoyed. How can you say that infront of your own gf? His gf ignored what he said right after he apologised to Mari, personally I don’t think he deserves his gf.
I agree with the part about Kim not deserving his girlfriend. As of how the story is going, I do think Kagami would've been better for Adrien or maybe some new girl could be good for Adrien too.
But I personally think Adrien and Mari do fit e/o, just that they weren't ready for e/o yet. I'm just gonna cut out the trauma episode bc I rlly do think it's bs. But, we gotta remember HOW Mari fell for Adrien. Mari didn't like him at first bc she thought Adrien was like chloe, a bully. Chloe put gum on Mari's seat and Adrien was trying to clean it, but Mari came in on the wrong time and thought Adrien put the gum on her seat, so she initially hated or at least disliked Adrien.
It wasn't until Adrien talked it out with Mari that she realized Adrien was trying to help her, and that's how we get that classic scene of Adrien and Mari standing in the rain. Then she starts to see how sweet of a guy Adrien actually is and that's how she fell for him.
This is where it starts to get weird tho. They are all 14-15 in the show, so them pursuing romantic relationships is a bit weird and Mari stalking/obsessing over Adrien is obviously weird and very wrong. Honestly the romance rlly sucks since other love interests were introduced (Luka and Kagami) but both Mari and Adrian could not truly love the other person back and we're back to square one.
Anyways, I rlly did like how Mari's and Adrien's romance started, but the way the writers dragged on the romance for 5 SEASONS is so draining (plus the love square). But if they both matured a bit (mostly Mari imo) and could learn to communicate with e/o clearly, I feel that they both would rely on e/o heavily and the romance could be good (plus the writers need to stop making Mari an obsessed stalker bc it ain't cute/quirky it just paints her in a bad light) This rant was longer than i thought.
@@d4red3v1l8 Who else is there?
But I know one thing, Adrien deserves a better _Marinette/Ladybug_ , under a better writer, as well as a "grow a pair" arc.
If Adrien truly "grew up" in Revolution, why is he still crying like a defenseless snowflake?