If Veterans Ruled the World | Starship Troopers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Starship Troopers movie has long been accused of being an unfaithful adaptation of the book, but its politics match the sci-fi military classic more closely than you may realize.
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Books
Starship Troopers (1959) by Robert Heinlein
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The Forever War (1974) by Joe Haldeman
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Movies and TV
Starship Troopers (1997) - amzn.to/3vvfTCX
Director's Commentary by Paul Verhoeven and Ed Neumeier (DVD/Bluray Extra)
Cast Commentary by Paul Verhoeven, Casper Van Dien, Dina Meyer, and Neil Patrick Harris (DVD/Bluray Extra)
Starship Troopers 2: Hero of the Federation (2004) - amzn.to/3lZt2Bj
Starship Troopers 3: Marauder (2008) - amzn.to/3FXNESf
Starship Troopers: Invasion (2012) - amzn.to/3BUOiO0
Starship Troopers: Traider of Mars (2017) - amzn.to/3AN1KlG
Starship Troopers OVA (1988) - archive.org/details/starship-...
TH-cam Videos
'Starship Troopers' Q&A | Paul Verhoeven & Casper Van Dien - • 'Starship Troopers' Q&...
Starship Troopers, Lost in Adaptation ~ The Dom - • Video
The Politics of Starship Troopers - • The Politics of Starsh...
Websites
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theportalist.com/joe-haldeman...
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Video Credits -
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Produced with the assistance of Rozarah
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Researched with the assistance of Jesspsettle
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Armor and Ferret Helmets by Donnythenuts
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Intro/Outro and Background Music by Michael Cotten/Nomad
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Hashtags: #starshiptroopers #sciencefiction #politics #veterans #literature #books #scifi #infantry #army #military #veteran #citizen
0:00 Intro
1:16 Movie
17:52 Book
43:01 Author
54:44 Legacy
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This video was sponsored by CuriosityStream and Nebula.
Be sure to check out the Director's Commentary on Twitch tomorrow - twitch.tv/knowingbetteryt
Starcraft was inspired by Warhammer 40k, which itself was inspired by Starship Troopers. It's Starship Troopers all the way down.
First
I'm loving the outfit 😜
DANNG!! Ten (10) extra minutes?! For real? Hmmmm ...
@@indigo22284 I personally love Nebula and yes I can confirm the runtime on the Nebula version is 1:08:06
There might be a third option, KB ... Rascaki was originally detached from the military to teach as some sort of RR for his injury as he was't fully able to serve in a normal billet but was not yet out of his signed time... and when the semester ended he returned to some training post or fleet unit bringing him away from Buenos Aires.
Alternate title to this video; *This most anti-war anti-authoritarian movie ever produced inspired me somehow to join the military.*
Please wath Sargon of Akkad's video on the same movie.
@@DailyLifeSolution Don't. It's full of problematic interpretations and false dichotomies. Plus it's boring.
@@angeleyes2c I watched it before recommending it.
@@DailyLifeSolution Oh, of course that makes a lot of difference. Now it's totally not full of falsehoods and boring.
@@angeleyes2c What is your peoblem? Can people not recommend a video? Can people not watch a video and come to a conclusion by themselves?
Fun fact about the shower scene, the actors agreed to do it only if the director and camera crew were also naked.
That's actually Awesome!
'I'm doing my part!'
This mini-thread is Great! Rah.
It's only fair!😂
Not so fun fact, same sex shower in military is not that sexy, you are to tired to "enjoy" it....and she look like she want to sleep (as in rest, not sex)
starship troopers 2 has the best directors commentary quote which (its been a couple decades) but was something along the lines of "our budget was 2$ and we spent 1.5$ on the bus ride to the studio"
THERE IS A SECOND?!?!?!?!
@@A_Steam_User There are 3 live actions movie and 3 CG movies
@@bullettime001 dang
I can only suggest the first movie lol...
@@EvaOwnsAll the CG ones are perfectly alright.
Be prepared for the deluge of Helldivers 2 players coming here to get more info.
A real life "Do You Want To Know More" moment.
know better :p
Helldivers is a ST game!?@?@?!?@?@,@
@@bboi1489no just heavily inspired. Like insanely inspired, like they just threw green paint and robots and jellyfish everywhere else and added cooler terminology
yeah I can say it inspired me to watch this video for the second time lmao
No, obviously. Its style is heavily based on what the movie of starship troopers, namely what it was trying and honestly failing to satirize.@@bboi1489
That voice sounds familiar. Fantastic video! I'm so glad to have been apart of it.
Starship troopers is a Warhammer movie
We love it when you voice act in these
@@Bolognamonster General Malcom Granger up in here tryna recruit us to the Electronic Arts Empire
@@SlashinatorZ And just like Warhammer 40k, many satires and dark humor of the Starship Trooper movie has been understood as some positive messages by many...
It was you! You sounded so familiar I just couldn't quite place it
The part about a crime surge being caused by unspanked juvenile brigands was absolutely hilarious
That's a paddling.
It was a VERY common conservative meme in the 20th century. It was a controversial topic from the 1950s to the 1990s, and there was a sea change in cultural attitudes and expert advice over that span. And yet, it is STILL common to hear this idiotic meme, when people grouse about kids being out of control cause their parents are "soft".
@KKK Revolution literally the meme. upgrade, upgrade. oh shit. go back go back
A very accurate and objective observation @KKK Revolution . I am sure no personal beliefs and opinions swayed that analysis of our modern times.
Intentional. Heinlein had a sense of humour.
My personal theory for Rasczak going from teacher to soldier again is that he wasn't actually retired, just in reserve, and was called to active duty after the bug rock strike, which he survived since he went on vacation for the school summer.
When at the graduation party he mentions Rico has to be quick speaking to him and then leaves, its implied he went to rejoin up in that moment.
That’s pretty much every military contract, I’m in the reserve list until I’m 55
@@cucu_cucumberwhy would he rejoin almost a year before the bug meteor attack?
@@oldmonkeysmeg12 Because there's obviously no gap in what the military and public is aware of, right? Think about it.
The "Come on you apes, you wanna live forever?" line is actually a real famous military quote. Sgt. Maj Dan Daly was leading a charge against German machine gun bunkers when he said "Come on you sons of bitches, do you wanna live forever?". He had already received two medals of honor prior to this event.
This is the guy where Congress changed the rules so he couldn't have a _third_ MOH. Fat Electrician does an excellent potted biography of him; it's funny, informative, and well told.
I made sure to scroll to check if someone commented this lol
This is the incident that prompted the “No 3 MOH’s Dan Daly was a Stud. Chesty who? LOL
It comes from Fredrick the great at the battle of kolin
"They get into a fight in the shower and agree to mutually respect each other" - not a euphemism.
Don't forget that Rico loses the fight. That's the best part. It's not till after he gets beat up that he's respected
I'm sure there is a porno out there with that exact plot.
@@commonpepe2270 what happens in the shower stays in the shower.
A rightwinger of the 50s inadvertedly going full gay was a common occurence. There is a strong correlation between repressed homosexuality and conservatism.
@@carlossaraiva8213 Heinlein wasn't a conservative as you or I would use the term. He supported socialist Upton Sinclair in his bid for california governor. He certainly wasn't gay but he was a swinger and was very libertine personally despite holding alot of conservative positions on sex. However it wasn't repression it was more a "public vs private" thing.
One of the most meaningful scenes was deleted from the movie: If I remember correctly, Rico finds the legless recruiter outside work, using some prosthetics that let him walk normally. He says everything is an act meant to discourage people from joining the military: If they are truly committed, they will see this mutilated man and still join regardless.
When you realize all the teachers and most adults have extensive permanent injuries...
@@caitlinb That’s cause war sucks. People lose limbs and crap. They seem to take better care of their vets than we do…
@@TitusCastiglione1503 it's kinda sad that the war mongering government of Starship Troopers has more respect for the men and women they knowingly throw at the meat grinder than most nations today do.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 that’s somehow the most fantastical element of the work, that disabled veterans would be able to get jobs
@@notNajimi lol
One thing I missed til now is revealed w/ Rico's answer on the difference between civilian and a citizen: "A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politik."
Humans are the same as the bugs. We have a worker class and a soldier class, and it's the soldier class's highest aspiration to die, unquestioning, for the hive.
It's also notable that, visually speaking, when the MIs and the bugs meet in battle they're both depicted as two giant, unorganized swarms running into melee combat with eachother.
Wow, that is a total mischaracterization of the MI and Citizenship. You have to VOLUNTEER to join. Rico could easily have chosen to be a rich businessman's son and that's all. But the Federation believed that something earned was something treasured and so if worthless maggotbrains like you want to exercise force over me you have to at least learn something first.
Our soldiers' highest aspiration is to keep their hive safe from all of the other hives by either discouraging the attack in the first place or making the other poor bastard die for his hive.
Here because I started playing helldivers 2, which led me to re-watch Starship Troopers, which reminded me why I liked so much Verhoeven's movie. Thank you for this video, it was very interesting to get an insight of the book.
I think the book Jarhead described it best. No matter how anti-war a movie might be, young men will still be inspired by it, missing or dismissing the deeper message while humming along to Ride of the Valkyries.
I can definitely see that point. When I was in my senior year of high school, my parents fought me tooth and nail not to enlist. They showed me every anti war movie imaginable. My response was effectively “That looks miserable, but someone’s got to do it. And I don’t see anyone else around willing to make a sacrifice.” It was Motarded beyond all compare, but I still partially admire my old naive enthusiasm. I’d probably be doing far worse off without the military anyway.
The movie full metal jacket is what got me to enlist in the Marine Corps
@@fullmetaljoker666 I think every Marine currently serving has seen full metal jacket before they joined.
@@salt_factory7566 bruh, same. 😂
Young men want to be a part of something bigger than themselves that taps into that warrior spirit. It's an impulse as old as time. That's also why young men without fathers in their lives can end up joining gangs.
In the book, Zim gives Rico something to bite down on during his lashing with the clear implication that Zim himself had also suffered a lashing early in his own career.
That's in the movie too, he says "It helps, I know".
That is made very clear in the movie too.
Gee... I wonder if it's also in the movie?
@@mattmarzula it is i remember it but he eventually drops it after few hits
I get the feeling that it might also be in the movie…
Michael Ironside's voice is damn good and fits the movie perfectly aswell
This kind of character is what he does best.
Sam Fisher my beloved ❤
Something I never see in discussions of this book is the part where Rico tells us that soldiers receive briefings for their missions subliminally in their sleep from transmitters and speakers under their pillows. Also, while patrolling Planet P waiting for the bugs, soldiers take naps in the field in response to hypnotic suggestion, whether they want to or not. Rico tries to refuse taking a nap himself when he is informed that he just woke up and had been asleep for hours without him realizing it.
Its never implied that this could be a bad thing in the book, but to me the implications are downright sinister. Soldiers with power armor and portable nukes can be brainwashed in their sleep and hypnotized to do things without them realizing it in response to a trigger phrase. And whose to say civilians are exempt?
Maybe that's why there haven't been any revolts.
Edit: I just recently finished The Forever War, and there are several similarities between them, one of which I noted in particular is that in the Forever War, the soldiers are hypnotized to be brutally ruthless in combat against their enemy (even though they didn't even know what they looked like at the time) and are activated with a trigger phrase.
That is a lie. Every trooper just has to say, I don't want to go, and he doesn't have to. He'll never be a citizen, but he won't be otherwiise punished. You lied and failed.
Great book!!
Loved that book
@@JohnE9999 get a fuckin grip, dude.
@@JohnE9999"i respect your opinion but if you disagree with me i'll strip you of your rights then find someone else who agrees"
How very kind of them, truly. How could this ever be interpreted as a form of fascism?
At least in their grand magnanimity, the federation allows you to live. which is the absolute barest minimum if you ask me but who am i to judge _shrugs_
12:37 Actually Rasczak's presence is easily explanation as you're ignoring the 3rd option: Rasczak, for whatever reason, was away from Buenos Aires when the meteor hit, saw his family get smushed, and decided to re-enroll in the military out of anger. The movie even hinted at this potentiality when Rico discusses why Rasczak never smiles anymore.
School would have just been getting out at that time
or the movie itself is propaganda within its own universe.
True they all graduated@@kylebenjamin2356
In the book Johnny's mother was visiting BA when the attack hit. He thought both his parents were there, actually. Lt Col Dubois was alive and well and we hear from him later in the story... because Johnny's home town was NOT BA.
Right. Weren't they from the Philippines?
It's amusing that the mobile infantry of the book are heavy inspiration for Warhammer 40k Space Marines (and if you go back to Rogue Trader, even more so) yet the movie turned the mobile infantry into the Imperial Guard.
Well to be fair, it was far too expensive for the movie to show the MI as mech troopers, so they had to show them as regular soldiers.
@@Vitross yea. And with 90s CGI those mec troopers would have looked horrendus and plasticy, better thag they fokused on the bugs because chitine looks plasticy and shiny in real life.
Seems like the book made them like super soldiers but the movie wanted to make clear they were expendable cogs in the machine, with cheap flimsy mass-produced armor and weapons
The movie turned the MI into a random PDF.
The Morita rifle didn't even have iron sights.
IIRC, the book's mobile infantry had standard tactics of using those jump suits to go high enough so they could throw mininukes onto the battlefield, quite a world different from the movie.
If I remember the book correctly federal service doesn't just include being in the military. It is also common for folks in universe to volunteer as medical test subjects for two years to test out various treatments and medications as their federal service.
Yea it was clear in the book. Rico was worried they'd be the only option for him in the military.
they also arent forced to serve too
The book is quite different. You could become a citizen through several methods of service, it was just military was the fastest guaranteed way to do so. The whole thing was about Rico learning to make his own decisions. The irony in it is he was fighting a race of legit fascist bugs that were actively enslaving and conquering other alien races. Even the movie doesn't do a good job at making humans that "bad" or "fascist". The bugs literally attacked Earth and have killed humans before that, I don't think responding to that with military force is exactly fascist.
@@Ronfost89 which is why that wasn't the point they were trying to make. The directors didn't say "defending yourself is fascist", they said "War makes fascists of us all".
@@NaturesFlame Not really considering the portrayal of society throughout the film before the war starts. He was saying "here is why a fascist nation is bad" but proceeded to show 0 fascism. I enjoy the movie but Verhoeven failed at even showing a single fascist like thing.
Who's back here after playing Helldivers 2?
watched the movie for the first time after playing the game and I appreciate both a lot more now
How many I wonder don't get that Helldivers is satire
I don't really think it's satire in the same way the Starship Troopers movie was. It's more of a pastiche of the film that uses the same style as set dressing because the moment to moment gameplay isn't really satirising anything.
@@Thegreatercheeseeh, I’d say the number of idiotic friendly fire incidents you’re liable to go through every game and the sheer disposability of these so-called “elite forces” satirizes how fascist regimes are inefficient and ultimately treat everyone as disposable regardless of how “elite” or “pure” they’re claimed to be
KB: “I want to stop making hour long videos and get back to 20-30 minutes”
Also KB: makes every video exactly 1 hour
I live for the hour long videos.
Wrong, it's 13 seconds less than a hour.
Well it's 30 mins about the movie and 30 mins about the very different book so... goal accomplished!
And I hope he keeps it up!
Don't tempt him or the next one might be feature length
I took my son to see "Starship Troopers", but was kind of concerned about the R rating. I asked a theater employee about he reason for the rating. She said there was a shower scene in the movie with some nudity. I was okay with that; everyone has seen a naked body, and most will see at least one of each sex. She didn't say anything about people being ripped in half; I think we have become far to inured to violence and too sensitive to natural human reproductive functions.
Look what is on the news virtually every single day? Shooting here, mass shooting there, drive by there as well. When does the media start realizing THEY are the problem? They sensationalize every single thing that will get them those sweet sweet ratings.
Meanwhile our youth are virtually bathed in explicit sex and violent. I agree with you we will all see a naked body of same and opposite gender so that isn't such a big deal.
But the gist of Starship Troopers is that their century has virtually no poverty, little crime (due in part to SEVERE punishment for all crimes) and a quality of life that seems quite good. I'm not saying a military government is the answer, but it certainly is both a book and the movie that provokes critical thinking and a "what if" style of presenting radical ideas.
@@deathstrike, I mean, this is also a movie whose main protagonists are primarily upper- and middle-class people, it's very likely that there is quite a bit of poverty in the UCF, and we just don't see it, becuase that's not the focus.
^didn't read the book
Even as a kid it was always immensely confusing to me that sex, a typically positive thing was shunned while violence, an inherently negative, thing was glorified.
The battle of Klendathu let me very disturb the first time I watched it back when I was 9 or 10 years old (specially because I had already watched the CGI cartoon some time prior... I was used to live-action films being more gory and sexual that their cartoon counterparts, but a hand blasted by shotgun fire is a thing, being dismembered alive by razor-sharp claws is on a totally differente level)
Sir Arthur Currie was a highly successful general during WW1. He was the commander of the Canadian Corps. Interesting that the training base in the novel is named after him.
@@privatecitizen5968Well, served as a desk jockey and then got the boot due to health problems. Suppose he never got over the fact he didn't get to earn any shiny medals.
And Canada was one of the most successful fighting forces on the western front. They're also responsible for many of the articles in the Geneva convention. The no prisoners rule is one that comes to mind.
It is an actual place, no longer a base but still a military installation. I've done training there, so weird to see it mentioned here.
I don’t want to accuse Heinlein of not thinking too hard about the Sci-Fi part of his story, but if women have faster reflexes and can also use power armor then they should absolutely be in the mobile infantry
11:00 actually a common tactic throughout history is to send your weaker units in first to "absorb or soften the enemy" before sending in your stronger units to finish off the rest.
It's also a way to recon the enemy's capabilities without risking your stronger units. Not to mention that if you send the best of the best and they get crushed while the rookies are sitting on the bench, the new guys are probably not going to have the best morale going in if they go in at all. That was a part of the reason why Rome's manipular system was categorized by experience, with the Velites, Hastati, Principes and Triarii.
True and mostly with disciplinary units even as far back as ancient times. I think the last major case of this happening was with the Red Army during WWII. Go forward and die to the Germans or retreat and be killed by the Russians.
Also, if any of the first wave survive they have been blooded and can be expected to bring back that experience
@@Nepomniachtchi_Austin id say the Chinese in the Korean war just sending waves and waves of men to the point claymore mines were invented is not too far off.
@@MA_KA_PA_TIE Not quite though. PLA's during korean war usually relied on series of short attacks conduct by small infiltration squads rather than mass human wave charge though. At least until one of the squad identified weak points in the line before send in entire regiment or to overrun the said weak point en mass.
What I remember from the book about the K9 unit was that the handler and the animal became so attached to one another, due to the fact that it was usually the handlers own dog and the physic implants, that if the animal were to die in combat/recon, the handler would soon follow due to a mental breakdown.
If the handler dies, they kill the dog to spare it. If the dog dies, they put the handler through months of rehab and therapy, because they're not allowed to kill them, even though it would be more humane.
In the book WWZ when the dogs died handlers would try to save them from zombies and they would just be let go to die trying to save their dog.
I got recommended this after becoming obsessed with helldivers 2
I was an eleven year Navy veteran and spent seven weeks in a Greek prison on Rhodes during the '74 Cyprus war. The movie was excellent even if it was actually from the book by Robert Heinlein. I must still give you an 'A' for effort. Very good analysis.
The only thing this movie and the book have in common is the title and character names.
Have you the book Armor by John Steakley?
@@dannyhernandez1212absolutely phenomenal book
The only Warzone I’ve ever seen still fully scarred (as an American) was the Cyprus/N.Cyprus border. I hope you didn’t experience the worst of it.
When this movie came out, a friend of mine who read the book (now a pandemic shut-in) suggested we see it. I thought the propaganda satire was hilarious. It's scary how advertisement for both consumer goods and the military look like this now. Every once in a while, I'll hang out with my sister and while watching TV and she'll whisper, "Do you want to know more?" We both crack up.
How many times have you been watching a TH-cam video when an ad video interrupts -- and at its end there's a button you can click on to "learn more".
Advertisements for the military are about gay sex now, dude.
It isn't satire, despite if the director intended that. Starship Troopers genuinely shows the virtues of such a society and how it is a good thing. People twisting that into it supporting terrible wars don't understand.
Also, propaganda can be a good thing
@@pyropulseIXXI ok buddy
@@pyropulseIXXI
I read the book & I saw the movie, that movie was satire almost entirely unrelated to the book.... and proper-gander ain't even good for ganders let alone people!
The football analogy really isn't all that complicated, friend.
The ball is the bomb, and the endzone is the bug's gaping turd-cutter.
Touchdown Buenos Aires
It's a bit of a stretch to get there though. Rico never had to jump on top of a big thrashing beast and blast a hole in it's armor at point blank range with an automatic weapon to be able to make a 1 yard pass into the hole for the touchdown.
🤣
@@wtrdawnlord It's not literal, the character is portrayed as an idiot.
Yeah he wasn't being literal lol.
@@wtrdawnlord Adapt. Improvise. Overcome.
The U.S.A was taking part in several wars during 1997.
The afgan civil war, the nepalese civil war, the somali civil war, the iraqi-kurdish war/conflict all took place during that year.
"taking part in" and "actually dropping in" are two different things.
plus dude was in character, he was being facetious.
@@malum9478he sounds like an idiot easily brainwashed by war propaganda. The fact that he was obsessed with this movie and still enlisted kind of proves the point. The whole point of the movie was to show how stupid these people are and why you do not want veterans to run society
We stopped caring about the Afghan civil war when the Russians left in the 80s, and we stopped caring about the Iraqi-Kurdish war after the Iran-Iraq war; also in the 80s, and after Desert Storm, which took place in the early 90s, not ‘97..
Join the helldivers.
Let’s go helldiver
For Super Earth!
Prove to yourself that you have the courage to be... Free.
This like is for cosplay helmets on ferrets.
This was the exact moment I remembered to hit the Like button!
I know! Too dang cute!
The "You want to live forever?" quote comes from Gunnery Sergeant Daniel Daly of the US Marine Corps, who was trying to spur on his company during an almost suicidal attack on German-held hill in the battle of Belleau Wood in WWI (he earned the Navy Cross from that battle).
Frederick the Great supposedly said it in 1757. Maybe Daly was quoting/referencing him?
But it was "Come on you sons of b*tches! Do you wanna live forever?"
6th Marine regiment, let’s fucking go
@@dkroll92 It's a pretty common theme in military expression. Oda Nobunaga also (supposedly) said something similar 200 years before Frederick the Great did, and it is pretty unlikely he'd have even heard of Oda. Though it's incredibly likely that Daly had heard of Frederick the Great and his quote.
This is a myth
Have you ever had that phase where you thought that everyone having the same philosophy as yourself would improve things so greatly for everyone? It feels like this book is the result of Heinlein having a phase like that...
I love that the story appears to be motivated by the idea that not hitting your kids = downfall of society.
I mean... Have you looked around you, lately?
I don't agree with Heinlein on a lot of points, and I want to be clear, I'm memeing, but. Makes you wonder if he had a point.
He probably had, in moderation.
Does spanking is essential to a proper and polite society?
Hell no!
Does some level of restriction and strictness by parents to their children is important?
Yeah, I think so.
It totally is, the history teacher in the book drop a sentence on how weak democraciies of the 20th century crumbled under undisciplined kids wieldings chains.
Aren’t people in our leadership basically old men and women?
A bit weird of the correlation between hitting children = downfall of society…
@@PWaldo-lw2ds no it doesn't.
in fact tf are you talking about? kids are more peaceful now than they have been in the last fifty or so years. if anything, the people who need hitting are old people.
This sounds like Athenian Democracy - Only adult male Athenian citizens who had completed their military training as ephebes had the right to vote in Athens.
Similar thing in Sparta - every male citizen over the age of 30 and being a soldier is mandatory, so in the end a soldier with experience is making the decisions.
Didnt sparta have a king?
Rome as well, except the status of citizen is not bound by military service though many citizens did earn their citizen status by military service. Auxiliary soldiers (non citizens which made up half the army) when their 10-20 year service is complete are granted citizenship and their sons can inherit that citizenship. This how Rome went from a city state to subjugating the Latins, Etruscans, and Italics. They assimilated as they conquered, when all of Italy was fully integrated into Roman culture they went into southern Gaul, Iberia, Sicily, and North Africa. Legionnaires are soldiers who were already citizens, they were rewarded a few acres of land to farm and make a good living after their service. This is how the empire expanded, driven by this cycle of soldiers who fight and win the wars settling in the new territories with citizenship and the new soldiers that take their place wanting to fight another war again. In addition to this the whole governing body is made up of veterans, the cursus honorum or the political career hierarchy can only be started when one has served ten years in the army and attain the rank of tribune. Therefore in theory all men in government and the senate would have accomplished their place by merit and therefore would be worthy of their post. However towards the later period of the Republic the system was blatantly ignored and was perverted and corrupted by the power of the wealthy seeping into the establishment and soon enough essentially men were appointed and remove to posts by the general who possessed Rome at the time by the whim of their political loyalties: Marius, Sulla, Marius again, Pompey then Caesar, and finally Augustus who would then take away the power from the rotten senate invested in the imperator, the senate would remain to maintain the old republican tradition but by all means Rome was now once again a monarchy though not nessecarily heriditary as imperators chose their heirs which though under dynasties like the Julio-Claudian and Flavian gens would be heriditary, later emperors would opt to adopt non related competent friends.
@@nathanbruce1992 yes but they also had some democratic institutions, but as he said, only for veterans.
@Cool Cat Thank you for mentioning it, I actually skipped it intentionally, but it is a valid point. As far as I know, there were two kings with equal authority, elder council and even one more group which is used to supervise the power of the other groups. I actually like both the spartan and Athenian systems - both look very practical.
Of course in Sparta, there's lots of sexual abuse and 85% of the population are slaves. And to 'become a man'... you don't go into the wilderness and kill a wolf, you go into the slave neighborhood and kill an untrained man.
No one ever seems to get the message that war is hell. I'll never forget my grandpa telling me, when I asked him of war, "It was just poor kids killing each other, and I pray you never have to experience that. Otherwise my friends died for nothing."
The entire US military industrial complex nauseates me, especially after they almost got one of my friends to join up… I’ve never hated anything more. And it brings me great shame that my country (Canada) isn’t so different…
@@brody7714exactly why we need vets to lead our country they wont want to just escalate and send the young off to die like the rich politicians do today who are career politicians
My grandfather never once spoke of war.
@@markstrom3630that's exactly the opposite of what the book and movie show. They show a nation ruled by veterans who send their young ones to fight and die
I have friends that enlisted in Azov, doing multiple tours. And then did it again last year. When I asked why, the answer was dual in nature. "Someone has too and it's fun.".
One of the things I love about the Starship troopers film is just how far away klendathu is from earth is the other side of the god damn galaxy how were the bugs supposed to accurately launch a meteorite that far and that fast. It heavily implies that the meteorites are either freak accidents dressed up by the media or that they were sent by the government themselves to justify war spending and invading klenadthu
This video was absolutely amazing, thank you for taking the time to turn the overarching message into laymen terms!
As someone from Argentina, some insight about the blonde blue eyed person in Buenos Aires: that's actually not quite uncommon here.
Due to being a port city, the number of immigrants that arrived here was HUGE, more so around World Wart 2 and shortly after. Lots of ukrainian, polish, Italian, Spanish, swedish, french... Lots of small hubs for each country formed in Buenos Aires and not all of them ended up mixing with the local populace, hence the spectrum of skin color in Argentina is HUGE.
Based.
It's kinda funny how so many people kinda overlook the idea that Latin America is composed also of European immigrants that arrived less than a couple of generations ago that can also be white, blue-eyed blondes. I'm from Venezuela, and this spectrum you mention also happens there, though I'd say there's a lot more mixing than in Argentina, and the lighter-skinned people tend to have settled more in the main cities too, not so much the rural areas.
I was going to say this. And there are a lot of non-Nazi German descendants all over the coast of South America. Most prominently in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile.
The idea of “brown” Latin Americans is very very American centric.
A fun data that show how right you are there are only 2 countries on Earth where the majority of the population has Italian origin: one is Italy and the other is Argentina.
Talk about the nazi descended Bavarian towns in the middle of Argentina
Fun fact regarding the anime version of Rico: the blonde hair and blue eyes were to cash in on his thematic similarities to a young Char Aznable from the original Mobile Suit Gundam, which had similarly taken its own shots at lampooning fascism a few years before the Starship Troopers anime aired.
Did it put actual fascism in its satire, unlike Verhoeven?
@Felix Carter I'd say yes, in gundam the space nation of zeon was a republic with two major political families plus one visionary leader who had his own personality cult. One of these families assassinates the beloved leader as well as one of their own to make it look like the other family was making a powerplay so they could push them put of power and take total control of the nation with the head of the family becoming the Supreme leader with total authority.
@@glockenspiel604
Seig Zeon
@@felixcarter1435 the main villain's dad literally says "have you ever heard of Adolf Hitler?" To which the son responds "He sounded like a great guy."
@@LadyoftheLab Most of my issue with NPC commentary on ST is that it has made people not understand what fascism really is. It's not 'having a military' or 'black trenchcoats'. Fascism is best defined as extremely centralized/unchallenged authority.
While your point about Hitler affection is probably correct, I don't know if just that is enough to make it fascist.
God damn it, the stupid physic nebula add got me. personally I loathe in video ads (however, I do understand them). This one gave me a good laugh, you earned your like.
Great movie. A lot of those cgi effects hold up man, and the practical ones make me feel nostalgic. Good message if you’re willing to sit with it and think, but also has plenty of dumb fun I can have on in the background anytime! Watched it like 5 times this year alone lol
Actually the “Come on Apes, do you want to live forever?” Comes from Dan Daly at the battle of belleau woods. I love it’s inclusion though so motivating.
I bet somebody replied "well, yes, I'd like to live forever actually"
Retreat, hell! we just got here!
Except Dan Daly said " Come on you sons of bitches, Do you want to live Forever"
I guess they had to clean up the language
@@adammccoy5166i dont see why
@@turtleanton6539Yeah, considering the film was rated R, it's weird they would feel the need to clean up sons of bitches.
This movie has the same issue as Das Boot. The soundtrack is so good, it makes it hard to resist the urge to do your part.
Also the teacher leading them into war is an homage to "Im Westen nichts Neues" (All quiet at the western front).
Music IS the drug....
What? Das Boot was extremely anti-war and from the perspective of those who were forced to fight in a needless war. Every character who believed in honor or "doing your part" in that movie was written as a blatant fool (i.e. the reporter at first, the political officer, the Kriegsmarine captains later on). I found it to be a pretty stoic take
@@RhodokTribesman Das Boot wasn't perceived as "extremely anti-war" in Germany.
@@angustin6590 I believe it was, and I never saw it any other way.
Kantorek?
This is such a good watch! Props to you❤!
i've watched this video essay about 4x by now - it's still good everytime i watch it.
Thankyou - Subscribed!
The enemy cannot push the dislike, if you disable it's hand.
I like bush. I take shower but my back is hard for me to reach.
The quote, "C'mon, you apes, you wanna live forever?" Was adapted from Marine First Sgt Dan Daly.
On 10 June 1918, during the Battle of Belleau Wood, 44-year-old Marine Corps First Sergeant Dan Daly, armed with a pistol and hand grenades, single-handedly attacked and destroyed an enemy machine gun emplacement.
It was the kind of action from which legends are born, but it was not even Daly’s most famous action that month. He is better known for his battle leadership four days earlier, when he urged his 73rd Machine Gun Company forward with words now legendary in the Marine Corps: “Come on, you sons of bitches; do you want to live forever?”
He was also known for the quote. Retreat hell we just got here. I believe that was the same person.
It could also been a quote from Prussian king Frederick II., who often fought along his soldiers. Rumors say that he shouted to fleeing soldiers in German: "Ihr verfluchten Kerls, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" ("Damn fools, you want to live forever?")
@@tenshisouran8560 Punctuation, it is your friend.
A sabayon fan I see
Sabaton
Very well put together analysis, enjoyed every minute, thanks!
Having never watched the movie but hearing about it, I since then watched it and was amazed by the commentary it was giving. Truly ahead of its time.
I'd say the fact that the only countries that ever get charged with war crimes are ones that lose the war, makes a pretty strong argument for violence being the ultimate authority.
The best part of Nuremburg was when the Allies had to drop the charges against the Germans for unrestricted submarine warfare because the Germans pointed out the British and Americans had just finished doing the exact same thing to the Japanese about two months earlier.
When countries win a war, or at the very least in this case, if they don't lose a war of capitulation. Obviously they don't charge their own "country" with war crimes, they charge individuals that carried them out. I mean, a number of US service people have been charged with crimes for their actions over the 20 year "war on terror".
@@tsdobbi Fair point sir.
@@tsdobbi This is a reason why troops only follow the battle plan handed down by the top, which often requires a ten to thirty minute wait while some intelligence chair warmer looks things up before you can shoot at anyone. This makes it impossible to win a war.
@@johnhansen2187 so true.
Oh man, I had a primordial shiver run down my spine when you mentioned "Citizens who have done their service to the algorithm" during that ad. I think I just saw a glimpse of the horrible horrible future.
The future is now!
Remember, service guarantees citizenship!
All hail the algorithm.
In the People's Republic of China, that is basically their present day.
Finished the video, just wanted to say thanks for actually getting the point :)
I heard/read somewhere that Heinlein's works were mostly written as vehicles for technology analysis. Like, Starship Troopers was written for discussion on the power suits.
The “unknown platoon sergeant” was Gunnery Sergeant, later Sergeant Major, Daniel Dailey, USMC at the Battle of Belleau Wood in 1918. The exact words were different than depicted in the book. Daily was awarded the Medal of Honor twice, in 1900 and 1915 respectively. He was awarded the Navy Cross for WWI
“Come on you sons of bitches, you want to live forever!”
-Dan Daly
@@JuanSilva-ym9pf According to one source, Daily, says he didn’t swear. I heard both versions.
@@flyingwombat59 did that source also spell his name correctly?
@@JuanSilva-ym9pf if there are any spelling mistakes, if’s my fault
Shit whos the dan dailey
11:20 In fact, this would be standard practice. The Romans did it as well. The first line is the newest element, youngest soldiers, least experienced.
First, because you want to blood them as soon as possible. Second because you want your better troops in reserve to handle the issues that will arise after first contact. Third, so if an enemy is badly underestimated or a trap is sprung, your more valuable elements are not wasted and you can then react with a better understanding of the force you are engaged with.
Indeed, what you are describing is the velites -> hastati -> principes -> triarii organization of the Republican Roman army. The least veteran and lightest-equipped troops were always placed at the front line to start, with better equipped and more experienced troops in the rear ranks.
Facts.
LindyBeige has a great video on Roman tactics and doctrine on his TH-cam channel. The oldest soldiers were in the rearmost line and the Romans had an expression for a battle that had gone very badly. The message was, "It was so bad that the oldest troops had to bail us out."
That’s how the empire in Star Wars works also. That’s why all the storm troopers had terrible aim, they were basically raw recruits.
the practice of putting young untested troops into battle straight out of training is pretty standard
Although this tactic is usually employed when said military force is not in the best position for success and therefore desperate
I was also in middle school when it came out in theaters. I specifically remember the movie Dark City was in the trailers ahead of the movie.
I also remember Blur's "Song 2" was used in the TV ads for the movie.
Still one of my personal favorites.
Okay, finished your video. Commented a bit earlier but now that the vid is, amazing breakdown. 👏
The sending basic training graduates with a new leader in a first wave makes total sense for a movie like this. The point is that command knew it would be bloody. Who is best lost? New recruits or seasoned veterans? In a military state, throwing bodies at a problem is not uncommon.
Exactly, further justification for combat and not only that, working the public up into a frenzy for new recruits.
The US did this for DDay as well. The more experienced troops would be alot less likely to take the risks. Stephen Ambrose's DDay book talks about it.
Some militaries in history have even used the tactic of forcing wave after wave of captured enemy civilians to attack a target so that military loses are as low as possible.
@@sock2828 that is true. Though in modern wars if you did this, would would have the entire world turn against you if you tried that.
@@sock2828 The mongols would round up villagers living around big cities and march them in front. Sometimes they would use the bodies to make bridges over moats or trenches.
Fun fact: Camp Arthur Currie was named after the Canadian General Arthur Currie, Currie was in charge of the Canadian Corps for most of the war after his division successfully fought off the first poison gas attack in history at a heavy cost (including one action where 2 battalions successfully conducted a bayonet charge across 300 yards of open ground under machine gun fire). After he was promoted to command what later became the Canadian Corps, Currie's use of detailed and well planned actions very often produced success and set a standard for the Canadian Army that is still followed today.
More fun fact: Currie had his reputation dragged through the mud by Sam Hughes (Minister of Defense). Hughes himself was responsible for heavy mismanaging the war particularly the poor quality control of the the Canadian Ross rifle (which was one reason the aforementioned bayonet charge happened).
Camp Arthur Currie also seems to be based on the geographical location of another fun Canadian Army gem: CFB Wainwright.
@Artyom Liu
RE: ". . . Currie was in charge of the Canadian Corp . . ."
It's spelled corps - and pronounced like "core." A corps is composed of two or more divisions. It is typically commanded by a lieutenant general.
@@spaceman081447 I know, was very tired when typing it. But thanks, have corrected the comment.
@@GrimRX I've never been to Painwright, heard a lot about it though.
@@HaloFTW55 "Painwright" hah hah, yeah, that would be a good nickname for it. I've been there on and off far too many years of my life.
I served in the Australian Infantry in Vietnam 1969/70 . I also read the book and saw the movie. Thanks for reminding me.
I was in Iraq as a Marine Infantryman. Thanks for having our backs. We seriously appreciate our Australian brothers in arms.
@@Dead_Again1313The Iraqis probably appreciated it a little less.
I've had this video on the back burner for 2 years now, was here right when it came out. But decided to read the book first and eventually come back to it. More than glad I did this and I feel like I got so much more out of this than if I just watched it when it came out. Thank you for a fantastic video, you're by far the best teacher I've encountered on this platform.
I had a similar introduction to Starship Troopers. I saw the movie as a young kid, loved it and misunderstood it for all the regular reasons, then read the book and was disillusioned by the bleakness of it, and here I am now as an Army vet and I can appreciate not only the fun of the film but also the indictments it makes on everyone who watches it. Totally a classic in my opinion.
It was one of the first times I saw boobs after puberty had started.
It will always have a place in my heart.
Starship Troopers indicts you warheads, not us peace activists.
the reality is that verhoeven is an idiot that didn't understand the point of the book, it has nothing to do with fascism at all, so why exactly is it a satire of fascism?
The undeniable fact that violence IS the ultimate authority from which all other authority is derived is a monumentally important lesson that should be taught in schools, because it is only through the understanding of this fact that liberal democracy can exist, in opposition to statist authoritarian meat grinders like socialism and its offspring, fascism and communism
@@panameadeplm -- I agree that use of force is the source from which all authority is derived. However, I disagree that violence is the supreme force.
I think it would be interesting to read a companion book to Starship Troopers about someone who earned their franchise in the Federation through civil activism.
By the universe's own logic, an individual could be assigned a job within the Federal bureaucracy, and then have to risk their life to expose some sort of corruption or mismanagement as a whistle-blower and protest organizer.
After all, holding the state accountable through loyal opposition integral to the functioning of any parliamentary democracy.
I'm Russian, I served in army and a friend of mine served during war in Chechnya. We both still love this movie, but as any other served man... for a different reasons than in our teenage years. God Bless Paul Verhoeven.
I forgot about the Mormon extremists bit. Given actual Mormon history, that's totally believable.
if Mormon can start a country around the Utah region with borders around the mountain and choke points. They defi will.
@@owenbunny4023 the Mormon nation would be a bunch of badlands, parts of Mexico and nearly all of Utah. Meanwhile rural Pennsylvania would be of the Amish extremists.
@@MrJack1992 someone should make a video game based on this
Hah i totaly forgot about that part. Hillarious.
@@7LegSpiders but yea. Settling in a desolate land, and getting in trouble with the natives is not a new thing for mormons. ^^
What a feckin SUPERB vid!
I bought the VHS of ST at my local rental store as soon as it was available for sale. I read the book after watching the movie and was delighted how different it was to the film adaptation. Seeing how certain themes were kept, but also enjoying how different Verhoven's creation was.
What a superb movie. Have loved it from the first watch.
Well done soldier, you did your duty to this movie. Also, where did you get your M.I. flag and outfit? Looks the shit man. Dont suppose you have a M.I. rifle too?
Thanks man!
ON THE BOUNCE!
We have a similar history!
Saw the movie at 15, joined the army at 18, and finally read ST during AIT (Ft. Gordon).
I'm very conflicted about a lot of ideas from the book, and it will forever be one of my favorites.
I think it is a bit funny, as an observer, that american society is so weak now that they saw jan 6 as a legitimate threat to democracy. That is why a nation needs citizens, not just civilians.
Seeing how social democracy IS bringing us to the brink of chaos, it seems there must be another way. You can't just give the franchise to anybody, otherwise half the voters are easily manipulated retards with no stake in the system who swamp out the other half.
"i just wanted a dumb movie about shooting bugs"
I can see how works like Starcraft and Warhammer emerged from the desire to skip to the part where marines fight aliens
Yeah, 40k used to be a mild satire on totalitarianism and Thatcherite militarism; unfortunately, I kind of feel that has gone by the board these days.
I talked to John Wagner once, and he said how disappointing it was to sign copies of his comics for fans who thought that Judge Dredd was the "good guy", and not a neo-fascist monster.
Euan Smith imo it’s more understandable with older works like from the 80’s when this stuff was less clear. But writers need to be a bit more aware and considerate of the impact their works can have. I mean, war and violence are very hard to portray or utilize in a story without either clearly denouncing it and it’s appeal making it not cool at all, or celebrating and glorifying it to some degree. It’s problematic because people want to enjoy what they watch, read etc.
@@fromthefire4176 The most interesting videogame plots ive seen over the last decade have been the ones that show the consequences of armed conflict. Blue Planet plays out like a tragedy. Brigador shows why mercenaries are a bad idea while Dark Future reconstructs cyberpunk as a genre by showing what happens outside of the cyberpunk cities. All three of these games are quick to get to the point where pilots shoot each other with lasers
Warhammer books still do a good job of telling you the Imperium are ABSOLUTELY NOT GOOD GUYS, but that's pretty much lost in the games. The games are still good, but they do have the problem of making the Imperium look more heroic than it actually is. Starcraft though... Starcraft is just a generic space opera that stole like half of its concepts from Warhammer. I actually like Starcraft, but not because it's "good" or anything. I can't really explain it, I just like it.
@@euansmith3699 it's kinda funny to me that the Judge Dredd movie, totally fun schlock' features a person named Rico that could be described as an adult version of Starship Troopers Rico
As for the issue of fans not getting the point, similar stuff happens to 'Ghost in the Shell' and even 'Gundam', both of which slap the audience with horror and yet ultimately accidentally glorify it
The pair holding hands was so he could give her a knife.
As a drill instructor, he had no chance of being in battle, so Zim deliberately tore up Ricco's discharge papers after being told they were the correct signature, saying he did not believe they were. This caused him to be demoted. He knew he could do little as an instructor. He might save lives as a combatant.
Good catch.
@@akulkis Thanks
I don't think that got him busted down. That's why the commanding officer looked at him and then turned his back. He knew that was the right thing to do to let Rico get back to serve and fight back for his family and city.
I believe it was something that happened down the road. There was a lot of time from the beginning of the war to the final battle as Rico had gone from Private to field promotion LT. Also, there was enough time that "kids" were being recruited and gone through boot to be sent as reinforcements.
@@cchavezjr7 Yea, BUT the sergeant was begging to be allowed to fight and even asked for a demotion. The officer said that his hands were tied. He stated the only way the sergeant could get into the fight was to get court marshaled and busted in rank. THAT is why he tore up the papers. Then the officer reported him for doing so, and he got busted in rank.
@@roberthicks1612 I understand what you're saying but the actions of the commanding officer was to turn the back to "not see" what happened. The commanding officer also said that he needed Zim there so was not eager to get rid of him.
I love this video; it hits home. When I was an active-duty Marine (I am a babyboomer), I read all the books you've spoken about and more. Your analysis is spot on. By the way, I am a troop to teacher, and I teach English Language Arts and History. I use these books to make points i.e., the Vietnam Era, etc. I love your videos.
I'm surprised the school doesn't ban you from using these, uh, white centric books or whatever bs they want to cook up
After 2005, I like to believe that Carl had a relative called Leeroy whose tactical doctrine was employed during the invasion of Klendathu.
LEROY JENKINS
I'm glad you mentioned The Forever War, it's such an interesting counterpoint to Starship Troopers.
And Heinlein congratulated Joe Haldeman for writing the finest military SF he had ever read. Joe had been worried, as it was written as a counter to SS by a Vietnam vet.
I hate that it's portrayed as a "response" to starship troopers. It's just a great book on its own. For some reason a lot of people thought it was pro war.
@@moonasha
People had a problem with the fact the book tried to come across as not pro war, but hypocritically described exactly militaristic ideology.
@@vladstefan5216 what exact part of this book was pro war? The fact that the humans in the book were at war? When at the end it turns out it was all just a misunderstanding and it was an entire waste of resources and life, and the two sides made peace? Yeah that's so pro war...
@@moonasha It wasn't, the action was based on Haldeman's personal experiences in Vietnam and he's gone on at length in interviews stating such. The entire theme however was the earlier veterans of this war coming back to a radically changed Earth, which was what many US 'Nam vets experienced returning home or in their post-service lives.
It's a separate, excellent story in it's own. O can see where people draw the differences between the the works, but it really wasn't Haldeman's intentions.
a helldiver has the COURAGE to make the safety of super earth his PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
I wanna see the bump this video got when Helldivers II came out because its appearing on my feed again.
This video usually gets ~35k views in a 28-day period. This period, it was 99k views.
@@KnowingBetter Holy hell!
When I was teenage male in the 90s, I loved Verhoven's movies because they had all the things I wanted to see in a movie. As an adult in my 40s, his movies have all the things I want to see presented in ways I want to think about.
I bet you haven't seen
"Turkish Delight"
"Katie Tipple"
"Spetters"
The audience not beeing able to understand the satire in this movie was quite frightening to see back when it was released.
I think even Verhoeven was surprised that the US audience was so aligned with it's ideology that it became transparent despite the satirical exaggeration.
It's like you'd grow a Hitler moustache to make fun of how silly that guy looked and then finding out you are living in a country where everybody is wearing one.
I never aligned with the Terran Federation's ideology, I just sort of ignored it. I always figured it was a fun but silly space action movie.
I read the book about 8 years after the film was released, and then I started thinking harder about what the movie was trying to do. Watched the it again, and then I finally released it was a parody when Neil Patrick Harris came out in his gestapo uniform.
I don't understand how people can't see it's obvious satire, especially when they constantly beat you over the head with scenes like Rico signing up and the recruiter with no limbs goes "The mobile infantry made me the man I am today" - Zoom in on mechanical hand/wheelchair.
It didn't help that the trailer they kept on playing to advertise it was mostly short cuts of various action scenes with Blur's "Song 2" playing throughout, so an American and Canadian audience was being primed to see it as a sincere action film.
@@LarsBlitzer Yeah, the ad campaign for the movie very much portrayed the film as a regular humanity fuck yeah sci-fi movie, which was not helped by the fact that anybody familiar with the original book would know that the book takes itself seriously. This primed the audience to expect a movie that took itself seriously and resulted in most people at the time not realizing that the movie wasn't celebrating the protagonists' perspective, but was basically saying look at how silly this all is.
@@arrgghh1555 There are conservatives who unironically think RATM supports their worldview so this isn't that surprising
Thank you for your intuitive insight regarding starship trooper the movie and the book...... I haven't read the book but I'm sure I'm going to make a point of doing it now........ Starship troopers has been one of my favorite all-time sci-fi movies....... Not only did I give you a like but I also subscribed...... I am looking forward to some more intelligent and comprehensive content...... Please keep up the good work....... It is obvious that you invested a lot of good old fashioned grit to produce an excellent piece of work......
Thank you
As a hobbyist writer who grew up on Heinlein, it took me a long time to figure out why his work sat well with me in some places and poorly in others. Eventually, it boiled down to a disillusioned realization that the guy was pumping out social assessment from an antiquated perspective that I couldn't relate to, but it had cool scifi writing and it was a little horny for nerds. I'd love to say that taking "fiction as fiction", superficially as entertainment, is the way to approach these things -- but it isn't. Looking at what is raised up and what is buried, getting an appraising eye on the lenses of the author, is important. You can't separate art and the artist, because the artist can't either.
The reason I had always assumed that Johnny and co. end up with the Roughnecks is because Rasczak had never left the military - he was on an ROTC-style leave where he was assigned as a teacher of Morality; probably because only an officer on assignment could teach that class.
I thought of it somewhat like how a recruiter has their job/specialization outside of being a recruiter: so technically you could be recruited by someone, then have that recruiter called to service and you could then be placed under their command.
Basically, Rasczak was always active but his squad had not been activated until the Klandathu incident.
Not read the book have you?
All teachers of history and moral philosophy are veterans
@@NeilCWCampbell my daughter loves the book and movie like I do but both of us fully understand the movie is not the book.
That was my thinking, too. ✌😸
In the book there are two different characters that get folded into one character in the movie. That LT in the book is a minor character at best. The high school history and moral philosophy teacher is a major character in the book in my opinion.
In the movie Klendathu happened after B A.
I would just like to say I watched all through the *ahem* awkward film trilogy and the animated movies for starship troopers. I thought it was a bit weird sending a green team in the first wave, until several years later when I realized how cold-hearted and authoritarian the UCF (United CITIZEN Federation) really is. Then it made sense, the guy at the recruiting station back at pre-retaliation Buenos Aires said it best: "Fresh meat for the grinder." Rico and his training buddies were an expendable probe. Not only had fleet GROSSLY underestimated the bugs, but the MI was sent in to see just how heavily colonized Klendathu really was.
I feel like it’s implied that the United Federation only stays together because they have a common enemy: the bugs.
During the training segment of the movie, a guy asks the drill instructor, “why don’t we just nuke ‘em?” which is actually a pretty valid question, it’s not like the bugs can fire back, to which the DI throws a knife in his hand. When you consider that by prolonging and making the war go on for as long as possible, the Federation can’t splinter from infighting.
@@th3highwayman it is, yes, the federation's fascist psychology is deeply and irreversibly rooted. To the point that it can't survive without it.
It's a very old tactic. Even Phalanx formations did that, not just to be brutal but to "finish their training". Green troops would be in the front rank and the hardened veterans would be directly behind them to:
Toughen them up.
Keep them from breaking.
Take their place in the rank when they fell.
When your military has a surplus of manpower, it's just a thing which is done for mass troop formations.
There's plenty of real world examples of inexperienced troops being sent in blind, they get wiped out of lose the majority of their strength? Maybe rest them for a bit before either reinforcing them with replacements or putting them into new units. As a commander if you have to send troops in blind to a potentially very hostile environment it just makes more sense to send green troops because their loss will be felt the least, sure experienced units would probably fare better but that's why you save them for when you know what you're up against if at all possible.
@@sg0310 that's fair. Cold, but fair.
Heinlein had a problem with being incredibly tiresome and weirdly horny, especially in his novels. The short fiction isn't too bad, though.
Ah yes, _deep thoughts with Heinlein_
You say incredibly tiresome and weirdly horny, I call it 'ahead of his time'.
Nice analysis. Worth a comment for your personal insight!
Today I learned that some people didn’t realise the movie was satire.
If movie was satire then it was shown in one the worst way possible.
Apparently putting Doogie Howser in SS cosplay wasn’t enough to hint he was a fascist.
Verhoven kind of hated Americans anyway -- he had thrown the Robocop script in the trash because it was "everything I hated about America", and his wife had to fish it out and talk him into doing it as satire. Which probably came out as "you can mock them, and the fools won't even know it! Plus, I need another hundred pairs of shoes."
His "satire" in ST was probably even closer to outright mean-spirited mockery.
@@stevenscott2136 he was your typical salty continentalist.
Pissed that his precious continental philosophy was the worst the world had ever seen and killed more people than anything else, but too self assured to ever consider that every attempt to build on Hobbesian ideas was always going to lead to tyranny.
Leftists are so untethered from reality that they don't realize what they hate is actually the core drive of humanity itself so any satire they attempt just becomes their only true ability to create art. This is why modern Hollywood creates terribly boring and flat protagonists that no one likes and the only time you are ever really compelled by a character is by the occasional antagonist when the writer and director accidentally strike too close to home.
Watching this right before 9/11 as a kid really put me in a messed up headspace for all of the 2000's that I was always afraid to talk about because the country was in such distressing lockstep.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one that even now is freaked out at the bloodfrothed rage coma we went into post 9/11 and how it accelerated a lot of bad into existence we are only just recognizing now.
Interesting that you phrased it in that manner. Have you ever heard of "Operation Lockstep"?
@@method0123 get out of here with that Q bullshit
@@impcec6734 that what? Operation Lockstep is real. What does that have to do with Q?
@@method0123 Dude, cop on. Stop touting shite conspiracy theories as though they're verified fact.
As someone who joined in the military in 03, watching this video all the while reflecting was pretty surreal. Fantastic work my friend.
My theory is the whole movie is a fictional piece created by the Federation for propaganda purposes.
We are literally watching a movie within a movie.
Who knows if the bugs even exist?
I appreciate the fact that you wore that armor for so long for maximum immersion (I doubt it was very comfortable lol)
he served for 7 fucking years in Iraq. But you are impressed that he can cosplay for 6-12 hours it took to film this. Mind is a strange thing.
@@TiMonsor
Sounds like you've got an anger problem.
Would you like to know more?
It's not that bad. IIRC the film armor is a lit stiff rubber. Many of them still float around and pop up in other shows like an episode of Firefly.
A lot of people use thick EVA foam to make their own.
@@Deveron4 why would u even assume I'm angry?
@@TiMonsor Your comment was unnecessarily aggressive and condescending.
"Remember, in this world violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived."
Yeah, in this world, too, honestly. I forget who said it, but he he stated bluntly, "Laws without enforcement are just suggestions."
Mao agreed, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
It holds true. Libertarians often call their stance the non aggression principle. If a law is not worthy of using violence to enforce then it’s an unjust law.
A law that cannot be enforced usually makes a mockery of the law.
It has been my experience that it's harder to take the law as a whole seriously when you are able to regularly break silly laws without consequence.
Its a big reason why people really don't like arbitrary laws. Because any law that is enforced requires violence.
@@REDDAWNproject It’s amazing how many people flat out deny that truth.
Oh no, Not KB's trigger-words !
Personal responsibility.
Me watching this will waiting to load into helldivers
Maybe some day the bugs will learn to embrace Managed Democracy...
Love the movie, as an action comedy
Love the book, same with Ender's Game
Joined the Marine Corps, was sorely disappointed by the lack of bugs
@hognoxious No, that's a myth. They give out crayons as rewards, but being the Marine Corps, they gave us the cheap knock-off brand. If you wanted good quality, you had to buy crayola at the store
stop lying, you joined to do your part, not to fight the bugs
@@lv.99mastermind45 it's true...
There were plenty of bugs around LeJeune =D
Thats what you get for eating crayons instead of jumping out of planes
"If violence doesn't solve the problem, you didnt use enough violence."
-someone somewhere
When did leveling a city or three, EVER stop a nation growing bigger than ever, within a generation?
@@wiretamer5710 what???
@@flamingwolf8753 Nah hes right though. It's pretty much universal that post-major crisis are following by huge spurs of births or growth, if such crisis doesn't completely annihilate such afflicted.
@@tavianbroadhead78 I was just writing a funny quote that I heard some place. I wasn't being serious so all this talk is quite frankly confusing the heck out of me lol
@@flamingwolf8753 oh fair enough.
Fun fact: the "come on you apes" line comes from a quote attributed to Sgt. Maj. Dan Daly, one of two US Marines to be awarded the congressional medal of honor twice. Famously, during the Battle of Belleau Wood, Sgt Maj Daly witnessed his platoon leader being killed and assumed command of his unit, standing on from his cover he turned to his men shouting "Come on you sons of bitches! Do you wanna live forever?" Before leading a charge against the German lines.
Well this popped up on my feed. I suppose i will binge watch all of the movies again.
I first read the book in 1981, It prompted me to join the Marines in 1987 after graduating high school although I would never admit it to anyone in the Corps. The movie came out in 5 years after I was released from stop loss and none of the Verhoven sarcasm was lost on me. I love both stories to this day and both the book and movie remain my occasional guilty pleasures.
Great fun listening to your commentary. I'm glad I now know better.
@Mike Covello
RE: ". . . although I would never admit it to anyone in the Corps."
Why wouldn't you admit that you were inspired to join the Marines by the book Starship Troopers? Wasn't the book, after all, on the Commandant's reading list?
@@spaceman081447 To be honest, at 17 I am not even sure if I remember there even being a reading list. In any case, I would break down the people who enter the Marines into 4 categories:
1. The hero's: These are the people who are truly gung ho. They bleed red white and blue and while commanders love them, but the average jarhead is never quite sure if that attitude is real or just a facade. You give them the benefit of the doubt but are always worried they will get you killed doing something too ambitious.
2. The Average Joe: This is the vast majority of the people of the Marine Corps, myself included. Yeah, you are proud of the heritage, and you will do what you are told, including shooting people. You will do anything for your buddies, but war isn't your thing. You just want to do your time and get out, or if you do stay in, you want to keep young Marines from getting killed.
3. Shitbirds: This is the 10%. They care more for how miserable they are than their fellow Marine. They try to get out of everything and are a real drain on the unit. Fortunately for me, I was in a SOC unit, and they are able to dump most of the shitbirds.
4. Psycho's: There is at least one in every company. They literally want to kill people (and or) have no sense of social restraint. There is a 50/50 chance that within a 4-year enlistment they will end up either dead or in Leavenworth. No one trusts them and hopefully, the leadership recognizes this and forces them out on a Section 8. They will drag others down with them.
I think Jonny Ricoh, like myself, would fall into category #2.
@@Kyakid
Thanks for the summary of categories. I find it to be very informative. I would guess that it would be much the same in an Army infantry unit.
I don't mean to be picky, but I still don't understand why you wouldn't tell your fellow Marines that the book Starship Troopers inspired you to join the Marines.
What is "stop loss"? What is "SOC"?
@@spaceman081447 Well, I wouldn't tell anyone because they would razz me continuously about being a hero type. Knowing me, they would know better, but those ongoing jokes can last years and they do get old.
As for stop loss, that is when your enlistment is up but you are in the middle of a war and the military deems you necessary to the war effort. my war was Desert Storm, and my 4-year enlistment wound up being 4 years 9 months and 3 days.
SOC in my day is what they now refer to as MARSOC it stands for Special Operations Capable.
Basically, it's the Marine Corps mission equivalent of the Army Rangers. For example, if you have a bad guy like say Osama Bin Laden that you want to snatch, you are going to send in someone like Delta Force or the Seals to get them. But they need to be protected from anyone who would not want them to succeed. To do that you are going to need more bodies than they have. So you would have someone like the Rangers or MARSOC surround the operating area to perform what they call blocking operations. anyone tries to interfere or send in reinforcements or whatever, and you take them out. Additionally, if the target is not quite as valuable, or is a non-combatant like, say a hostage, the SOC unit would probably perform the entire mission.
Hope that clarifies.
@@Kyakid
You have answered all of my questions. Thank you very much.
26:48 "...were people were afraid to go out at night for fear of being mugged..." dude, 90% of latinamerica lives like that (including myself). And believe me, corporal punishment with the legendary "Mom's sandal" is quite well present.
😔
This is honestly why I wish he would have focused more on the "civic classes" parts of the book. Heinlein specifically addresses over-paddling and using force in unjust and unnecessary ways.
It's also why on a second or third reading of the book, that "boring opening scene where they just go down and break things" is actually the use of the philosophy expressed throughout the book being applied to Combat. The Skinnies begin the book as enemies of the Terrain Federation, but eventually they become allies. How this happens is directly related to a use of force which deterred further violence and cost the Skinnies time and resources to rebuild.
They literally weren't there to kill, they were there to cause problems that the Skinnies would have to focus on rather than making war.
@@texaspowers4088 Doesn't change that this very idea is unreal nonsense and not how violence works aka not works.
It implies coercing submission from another power and that somehow leading to positive relations because... ... ... the author wrote it that way. It is the complete opposite of how reality works. Plenty of direct case studies in the past 20 years why it does not work even with overwhelming firepower.
@@mangalores-x_x Why didn't it work in those examples? Also violence.
@@mangalores-x_x
What you are referring to is a shock and awe strategy. The MI are not using this kind of strategy.
This strategy actually more closely aligns with some of today's military doctrine. Hit them hard and fast cause problems that they have to solve before they can retaliate and negotiate for peace while they rebuild.
This is, in fact, an effective strategy especially if you are careful with your explosives and try your best to prevent civilian casualties instead of changing the definition of civilian like the Obama administration, which was neither careful or concerned about human life.
Anybody else here from Helldivers 2?
This movie is amazing. Your presentation is almost as good as watching it.
It has an atmosphere of unnatural thoughtfulness. The corporatized propoganda. The coed showering. The fact that the enemies are bugs and they get squashed. The cleanliness. Even the battlegrounds are out of a Sonoma calendar. The uniforms and the soldiers look great. Like Star Trek.