These seem like very valid criticisms if KIA was still all about economy vehicles. But the EV 9 is a luxury car that may be cheaper than German rivals but is still quite expensive. People buying this car also have designer furniture in their home instead of IKEA furniture. The design features pointed out in this video seem pretty reasonable to me, KIA has a tough task of trying to change their image to move up market. Making cars that don't stand out wouldn't help.
Actually that makes a lot of sense. People who watch PC related content probably already knew the LTT channel and their products, but car/manufacturing enthusiasts who aren't into computers or gadgets might not know about it.
It is important to note that the fancy seats with the leg rests only come on the top two trim levels of the EV9 (which cost over $10k more than the base long-range model). For $10k more, Kia better be adding a lot of nice features to the car.
EV9 owner: Kia spent money where it matters to 3-row buyers. R1S instead spent money on 550+ hp no one needs at the expense of a bad third row and incompetent charging. Model X spent money on power and fancy doors. When you don’t cover gaps, you get the Silverado EV which you blasted for exposed structure at 100k.
@ lol. Model X is not an IIHS TSP+. It’s a 10-year-old car at this point, not even designed for the newer tests. Tesla spent engineering on 0-60 and stupid doors instead of making a good vehicle. Full of rattles and squeaks, useless third row, built like a Trabant. MX sales are cratering because people who are bad with money are now burning down their credit scores on Hummers and Silverados and Cyberdumpsters.
@@Ficon - TESLA Designs for 6 STAR crash safety & Model X is Designed to be SAFE in a fall off a 250 foot cliff w/ only VERY minor Injuries. ALL of Tesla car Designed for 6 STAR crash safety.
@koijoijoe Qestion is have you wondered if a friend or family member that may need one 🤔✌️ . Or have you checked out the cool new different colours they have 😎
As a hyundai Santa Fe hybrid calligraphy owner, the seat comfort, ride, and mpg are really important to me. Obviously, price and looks also matter. But I'm not buying if the seat isn't comfortable and the ride isn't really good. Love my calf support. But I couldn't care less about the flexible headrest. I'm willing to pay for options, which is why I like hyundai/ Kia, nicely equipped for reasonable price.
Was about to agree with Carl's concerns when I realized the reason I don't road trip my 2014 SparkEV isn't the limited range, it's the dang, stiff, super uncomfortable, vinyl covered seats even my dog disapproved of!
Carl's reviews always deliver. And as an owner of LTT's screwdrivers, both long and short, I can really see the connections all over. Great job Munro and LTT!
True story: i was contemplating buying an ltt screwdriver as shipping costs to germany are a tough pill to swallow. but seeing munro live approve that it's a great screwdriver gave me more confidence in making a purchase decision. looking forward to taking all of what I've learned on this channel into purchasing a car (some day)
An excellent discussion of seats. When this information is compared with the Tesla seats- one can UNDERSTAND the costs and reason that the Tesla seats are made as they are. Tesla's only concern {omitting safety} is seat comfort
Very informative. I never considered the costs of each item in the design of a seat and how it affects the price of the vehicle. With EVs, weight also enters the equation. I can see that as EV design evolves weight > range are going to be a larger decision point in the price of the vehicle.
Carl makes me miss my dad. Nice guy. Seems to appreciate the work you put into something. But gives off this subtle air of disappointment that you could have done better. Miss you dad.
Does the fact Hyundai manufacturers their own seats (and licenses for others like Rivian) and produces their own steel, allow them to better economize to scale?
As a EV9 GT and Rivian R1s owner, I can say the seats in the EV9 were a huge selling point for me. The comfort of the front and second row captain's seats are among the best (better than the R1s for sure) plus the fact that they also fold flat. The fold out leg rest is pretty useless for anyone but kids, so they really could remove those and still be fine. I think Kia knows their market for these vehicles and how important this design was, regardless of cost. BTW the second row seat in the R1s is terribly uncomfortable and the folding mechanism is horrible. Kia is really stepping up with their new vehicles. Appreciate seeing your teardown videos 👍
Actually a very nice seat makes it more comfortable for me paying more than $10,000 for a vehicle. The same thing with the office chair you can have 1 for 50$ or you can have much more expensive ones the well-built expensive ones tend to last a lot longer and I also more comfortable. You might not care if you use the seats like 1 hour a day whoever is sitting more than 1 hour on a chair or seat it's definitely willing to pay the price.
$15 on a $70,000 SUV is nothing. These little decisions are required to make this different than a typical crappy SUV, its a bunch of little decisions on material and build quality that make a difference between regular and premium. Its also worth mentioning that all the features you questioned on these seats are all optional extras. These are things that the vehicle customer is deciding to option up and pay for. They are not base level seats for this vehicle. So, *clearly* if people are buying vehicles with these options, they *want* these options and are willing to pay for them.
Carl is the best. Nicely done. Marketing is making lots of those decisions. If you add $15 here and there to project a higher end car you can sell it for more.
16:00 Head Cusion bendable , Munro asks why . Thats because it is a supercomfy benefit to rest the head without holding it sideways. Seres 5 has this too . Why doesnt other have that function ?
Deutsch/Tyco ones like these are everywhere in automotive etc. I use them everywhere where waterproof connectors are needed. They can do 10A per pin, quite versatile.
@@Lvvcassss - REDUCED hundreds of WORTHLESS connectors to ONLY Basic 6 that are NEEDED for production. and TESLA gave away Patents for FREE. BONUS - Tesla sent every Legacy auto PRIMER on how do Design for 48v for FREE.
You can seat comfortably on the 3rd row- You need to fold 2nd row and stretch your legs all the way up to the driver)))))) I know this, because I tried such way during test drive
I wonder when Automakers will start casting the seat. It could eliminate so many parts and production steps. A clever design might even eliminate many side closeout parts, with the bare casting exposed on the sides (perhaps painted and/or brushed). Perhaps the aluminum cost would exceed other savings.
@@ryanlahna3857 Safety is definitlly a concern, but perhaps can be mitigated by the design and metal used. Clearly a cheap pot metal casting would not work. Tesla's aluiminum casting takes about 80-170 seconds for the huge front/rear castings. For a seat frame casting, I'd either expect faster cycle times and/or multiple parts per casting. Steel stamping looks to be faster, but you need more parts and once you add in the time to manage and weld all the parts together, I'd expect castings might win out. The aluminum casting would be lighter, an important consideration if the safety standards can be met.
It would be great if Munro did a segment on how they 3D Scan. That is a lot of dots. The workflow would be interesting to the hobbyist community as 3D Scanning is getting quite affordable. I truly get the sense that with 3D Scanners and 3D Printing the very specialized skill of mechanical CAD is going to have a big boom in adoption. The PC has really moved from 2D to 3D and now had 3D headsets like Oculus for better viewing. AI appears to be making the workflow less tedious. We may be returning to a second Golden Age of mechanical engineering even more powerful thanks to Additive Manufacturing.
8:20 there's a lot of gaps in that seat. Should be engineered for comfort and safety first the decorated. If it's comfortable because it spreads your weight out over a large area, it will spread out an impulse in a collision.
👏👏👏👏 Munro should purchase a Chinese vehicle (Xiaomi, Xpeng, Li Auto) and determine how they work, so that your clients and we can learn more about them 👍👍
@@markplott4820 I do not refer to purchasing the car to drive it in USA. They could do as Caresoft did: buy a Chinese car ONLY to dissasembly it, driving it only in their private premises. You can see their video here en TH-cam 😉
I think the comment Elon made is the most important... the best part is no part. I do not know if $100 or so dollars would make the difference on if they can make a profit or how much profit they make. Right now we see So many car companies going deeper in debt and having to cut workers and cut pay and all. that $100 per vehicle could make the difference on being profitable and that is just the seats As a consumer each part is one more that can break and costs more to fix. One car i used to have it cost more to fix some components in the seat than it did to completely replace the seat with a new one. Some things make sense like heated seats because it is so much more efficient
"I think the comment Elon made is the most important... the best part is no part." What Tesla's CEO had said is a very valid point. However, the statement goes back to times of Industrial Revolution and was popularised (in automotive industry anyway) by Henry Ford and then Toyoda. PS. I wish people would stop referring to the CEO as "Elon". He isn't our friend or buddy.
You started loosing me when you spent time explaing what a seat is for then lost me when you explained why you used reference stickers and scan spray to scan the seat shape. Come on we are not idiots.
Wait! If we use lawn chairs, we can save a ton of money. Lame video. Efficient manufacturing is one thing, saying brands are wasting money on features is not your job. Stay in your lane.
I think Munro and Associates knows exactly where its lane is, and as a company also decides where it wants it to be - you don't. Lame viewer. 🙄Stay in your lane.
As a hyundai Santa Fe hybrid calligraphy owner, the seat comfort, ride, and mpg are really important to me. Obviously, price and looks also matter. But I'm not buying if the seat isn't comfortable and the ride isn't really good. Love my calf support. But I couldn't care less about the flexible headrest. I'm willing to pay for options, which is why I like hyundai/ Kia, nicely equipped for reasonable price.
When you see it's Carl, you know it's going to be a good video
You got that right!
Awesome, thank you. I'm not an industry person, just a consumer. Never knew how much thought goes into what I just sit in.
These seem like very valid criticisms if KIA was still all about economy vehicles. But the EV 9 is a luxury car that may be cheaper than German rivals but is still quite expensive. People buying this car also have designer furniture in their home instead of IKEA furniture. The design features pointed out in this video seem pretty reasonable to me, KIA has a tough task of trying to change their image to move up market. Making cars that don't stand out wouldn't help.
3 row SUV is very LIMITED market , just like Estate/Wagons .
Wow I was not expecting LTT to show up here
Craftsman (tm) tools > LTT.
Actually that makes a lot of sense.
People who watch PC related content probably already knew the LTT channel and their products, but car/manufacturing enthusiasts who aren't into computers or gadgets might not know about it.
It is important to note that the fancy seats with the leg rests only come on the top two trim levels of the EV9 (which cost over $10k more than the base long-range model). For $10k more, Kia better be adding a lot of nice features to the car.
FACT - footrests are UNSAFE in a crash.
Carl picks up on these tiny cost details that I would never notice.
or that MATTER to the consumer, .....lol.
Another great on by Carl!
EV9 owner: Kia spent money where it matters to 3-row buyers. R1S instead spent money on 550+ hp no one needs at the expense of a bad third row and incompetent charging. Model X spent money on power and fancy doors. When you don’t cover gaps, you get the Silverado EV which you blasted for exposed structure at 100k.
TESLA model X still the SUV Benchmark in 2024.
TESLA model X plaid SAFEST & Fastest SUV on EARTH.
@ lol. Model X is not an IIHS TSP+. It’s a 10-year-old car at this point, not even designed for the newer tests. Tesla spent engineering on 0-60 and stupid doors instead of making a good vehicle. Full of rattles and squeaks, useless third row, built like a Trabant. MX sales are cratering because people who are bad with money are now burning down their credit scores on Hummers and Silverados and Cyberdumpsters.
@@Ficon - TESLA Designs for 6 STAR crash safety & Model X is Designed to be SAFE in a fall off a 250 foot cliff w/ only VERY minor Injuries.
ALL of Tesla car Designed for 6 STAR crash safety.
@ 6/5 stars. Don’t give yourself diabetes from all that Elon cool aid you are chugging.
Holy cow. I love ltt. I'm so happy for this crossover 😊
Side note, I also really like the ltt screwdriver
Absolutely love these detailed breakdowns by Carl.
Jokes on you, i already own an LTT screwdriver! Whos advertising now Munro, thats right me! With this comment!
it's a nice screwdriver!
@koijoijoe
Qestion is have you wondered if a friend or family member that may need one 🤔✌️ .
Or have you checked out the cool new different colours they have 😎
I own multiple Craftsman (tm) tools , almost NONE have ever Broken , & were REPLACED for FREE by Sears.
This vehicle is incredible and I am very thankful for Munro showing me the guts of my EV9.
The software is crap but the hardware is freaking awesome.
As a hyundai Santa Fe hybrid calligraphy owner, the seat comfort, ride, and mpg are really important to me. Obviously, price and looks also matter. But I'm not buying if the seat isn't comfortable and the ride isn't really good. Love my calf support. But I couldn't care less about the flexible headrest. I'm willing to pay for options, which is why I like hyundai/ Kia, nicely equipped for reasonable price.
Cybertruck NOW outselling the Santa Fe GLOBALLY . also the JEEP Gladiator.
Interesting and thought provoking questions about seats that most people never question.
Love videos with Carl!
We do too!
Was about to agree with Carl's concerns when I realized the reason I don't road trip my 2014 SparkEV isn't the limited range, it's the dang, stiff, super uncomfortable, vinyl covered seats even my dog disapproved of!
Carl's reviews always deliver.
And as an owner of LTT's screwdrivers, both long and short, I can really see the connections all over. Great job Munro and LTT!
Glad you like them!
@@MunroLive - Craftsman (tm) tools > LTT.
True story: i was contemplating buying an ltt screwdriver as shipping costs to germany are a tough pill to swallow. but seeing munro live approve that it's a great screwdriver gave me more confidence in making a purchase decision. looking forward to taking all of what I've learned on this channel into purchasing a car (some day)
Post online looking for similar buyers and group order to get that free shipping
DAISO tools $1.25 > LTT.
An excellent discussion of seats. When this information is compared with the Tesla seats- one can UNDERSTAND the costs and reason that the Tesla seats are made as they are. Tesla's only concern {omitting safety} is seat comfort
Very informative. I never considered the costs of each item in the design of a seat and how it affects the price of the vehicle. With EVs, weight also enters the equation. I can see that as EV design evolves weight > range are going to be a larger decision point in the price of the vehicle.
Curious - what is the strategy with the placement of the dots? Some appear to be applied very orderly and others seem to be random.
Very educational! Never knew that there was so much mark-up and profit in a screwdriver!
Carl, what was the ICE vehicle with seats more expensive than the powertrain?? You can't leave us hanging.
Great teardown! I would love to know more about the safety side of a seat, to better understand what car to buy.
MOST dont even make OWN seats , like TESLA does.
many use SAME suppliers......lol.
Carl makes me miss my dad. Nice guy. Seems to appreciate the work you put into something. But gives off this subtle air of disappointment that you could have done better.
Miss you dad.
4:10 Could you make a bonus video showing how you scan things? : )
see - already videos published on YT.
17:43 good for people who can't afford a BMW or Mercedes to have to. Spending money on comfortable seats is not a waste.
KIA not really good for anyone.
They really did make a high quality screwdriver.
Does the fact Hyundai manufacturers their own seats (and licenses for others like Rivian) and produces their own steel, allow them to better economize to scale?
🙋♂️THANKS CARL AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THIS 🤗 I ALSO LOVE 💕 QUALITY TOOLS 💚💚💚
As a EV9 GT and Rivian R1s owner, I can say the seats in the EV9 were a huge selling point for me. The comfort of the front and second row captain's seats are among the best (better than the R1s for sure) plus the fact that they also fold flat. The fold out leg rest is pretty useless for anyone but kids, so they really could remove those and still be fine. I think Kia knows their market for these vehicles and how important this design was, regardless of cost. BTW the second row seat in the R1s is terribly uncomfortable and the folding mechanism is horrible. Kia is really stepping up with their new vehicles. Appreciate seeing your teardown videos 👍
Having one of these GT Lines the front headrests are simply bomber!
Actually a very nice seat makes it more comfortable for me paying more than $10,000 for a vehicle.
The same thing with the office chair you can have 1 for 50$ or you can have much more expensive ones the well-built expensive ones tend to last a lot longer and I also more comfortable.
You might not care if you use the seats like 1 hour a day whoever is sitting more than 1 hour on a chair or seat it's definitely willing to pay the price.
$15 on a $70,000 SUV is nothing. These little decisions are required to make this different than a typical crappy SUV, its a bunch of little decisions on material and build quality that make a difference between regular and premium.
Its also worth mentioning that all the features you questioned on these seats are all optional extras. These are things that the vehicle customer is deciding to option up and pay for. They are not base level seats for this vehicle. So, *clearly* if people are buying vehicles with these options, they *want* these options and are willing to pay for them.
Definitely, made me a fan of the EV9.
I found this very informative. I used to work for the original leader seating just off 6 mile or McNichols the Highlander.😊
Carl is the best. Nicely done. Marketing is making lots of those decisions. If you add $15 here and there to project a higher end car you can sell it for more.
16:00 Head Cusion bendable , Munro asks why .
Thats because it is a supercomfy benefit to rest the head without holding it sideways. Seres 5 has this too .
Why doesnt other have that function ?
Really good explanations!👍
Glad you think so!
Deutsch/Tyco ones like these are everywhere in automotive etc. I use them everywhere where waterproof connectors are needed. They can do 10A per pin, quite versatile.
TESLA invented 6+ universal connectors for Low Voltage systems.
massive COST savings , IF used by Industry.
ALL are FREE to use .
@markplott4820 they didn't invent anything, they *designed* yet another lv connector...
@@Lvvcassss - REDUCED hundreds of WORTHLESS connectors to ONLY Basic 6 that are NEEDED for production.
and TESLA gave away Patents for FREE.
BONUS - Tesla sent every Legacy auto PRIMER on how do Design for 48v for FREE.
You can seat comfortably on the 3rd row- You need to fold 2nd row and stretch your legs all the way up to the driver)))))) I know this, because I tried such way during test drive
Ummm, no one is going to use that.
@ and still many luxury cars offer exactly that for the 2nd row passengers- folding front passenger seat to make a leg rest
@@ashotgaziyan8876 - UNSAFE in a crash , per NHTSA .
18:12 Thank you!!
I wonder when Automakers will start casting the seat. It could eliminate so many parts and production steps. A clever design might even eliminate many side closeout parts, with the bare casting exposed on the sides (perhaps painted and/or brushed). Perhaps the aluminum cost would exceed other savings.
TESLA might.
Cast parts in a seat snap during a crash test, stamped parts bend. They also take longer to make. -automotive safety testing engineer
@@ryanlahna3857 Safety is definitlly a concern, but perhaps can be mitigated by the design and metal used. Clearly a cheap pot metal casting would not work. Tesla's aluiminum casting takes about 80-170 seconds for the huge front/rear castings. For a seat frame casting, I'd either expect faster cycle times and/or multiple parts per casting. Steel stamping looks to be faster, but you need more parts and once you add in the time to manage and weld all the parts together, I'd expect castings might win out. The aluminum casting would be lighter, an important consideration if the safety standards can be met.
@ the casting we tried were aluminum, the weight was also to must… 10 years ago. Some new methods maybe worth a look
@@ryanlahna3857 - Giugacast doesn't break in crash test , only the Crush cans .
AL Gigacast seats are a STONE.
I have a battery operated drill with torque settings. 1 for circuit boards. Or just use the bit from a multi-bit screwdriver with 2-3" bits. 2:22
I bought a BETTER screwdriver from Harbor Freight.
We have just upgraded our scanner and it does not need chalk anymore - even for black carpet !
th-cam.com/video/TQFXZvO6mKk/w-d-xo.html
Carl re those grab points on the seat backs would the cost not be reduced by the omission of the grab handles above the doors in the roof lining .
CARL!!!
Why don't they put the steel into a mold, or a series of molds to add structural shell, foam and outer lay, sequentially overmolded ?
And he didn't even talk about how the ventilation and getting works or the ergo motion! That would be interesting
It would be great if Munro did a segment on how they 3D Scan. That is a lot of dots. The workflow would be interesting to the hobbyist community as 3D Scanning is getting quite affordable. I truly get the sense that with 3D Scanners and 3D Printing the very specialized skill of mechanical CAD is going to have a big boom in adoption. The PC has really moved from 2D to 3D and now had 3D headsets like Oculus for better viewing. AI appears to be making the workflow less tedious. We may be returning to a second Golden Age of mechanical engineering even more powerful thanks to Additive Manufacturing.
already LOTS of YT videos .
8:20 there's a lot of gaps in that seat. Should be engineered for comfort and safety first the decorated. If it's comfortable because it spreads your weight out over a large area, it will spread out an impulse in a collision.
ALL Tesla are Engineered SAFETY as 1st Consideration , then Comfort.
leg rests cause INJURY in crash.
👏👏👏👏 Munro should purchase a Chinese vehicle (Xiaomi, Xpeng, Li Auto) and determine how they work, so that your clients and we can learn more about them 👍👍
Volvo & Polestar are CHYNA .
and very CRAPPY made.
That would be cool!
unfortunately , imports come with 100% Tariffs soon.
and you CANT register or LEGALLY drive a CHYNA oem on city streets , except for Polestar & Volvo.
@@markplott4820 I do not refer to purchasing the car to drive it in USA. They could do as Caresoft did: buy a Chinese car ONLY to dissasembly it, driving it only in their private premises. You can see their video here en TH-cam 😉
@@MunroLive You can do it 👏👏👏 It would not cost you a fortune, and the information would be invaluable to your USA and rest of the world clients 😉
Question?
How much are the reports at MUNRO AND ASSOCIATES?
Contact Sales@leandesign and they can give you a quote.
$$$$$.
I would love to see Munro analysis on a Citroen 2cv. Now that is a comfy interior with all the cost cut to bare minimum.
cannot be SOLD in the USA.
cannot Register .
Can we get a seat teardown for Tesla too? Very interesting in how their simple seat is working, comfortable and less fatigue in long run then others.
We have multiple Tesla seat teardown videos on our channel!
th-cam.com/video/o47D8Gi6saU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1a8xI2K1fQrExGfZ
th-cam.com/video/pwS8--vomEI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-NiUw_Chkh6AWq0E
These seats pop when you take left hand turns.
Comfort and support are the two things that I care in car seats. But these designs solve non of the two.
More than powertrain, interesting
Lost respect for LTT when they said "judge people by what they do, not what they say", then they went on to show they lack integrity.
1:41 LTT 😅
seats costing more than the drive train... crazy!!!!
brutal
Other than Tesla, HKMC seems to be the only one producing decent EVs, inside and out.
Well… maybe other than the Chinese.
Oh My, What a Nightmare scenario. So many Parts.
MUNRO live - Carl , and in 2024 KIA is still Unprofitable in BEV.
I think the comment Elon made is the most important... the best part is no part. I do not know if $100 or so dollars would make the difference on if they can make a profit or how much profit they make. Right now we see So many car companies going deeper in debt and having to cut workers and cut pay and all. that $100 per vehicle could make the difference on being profitable and that is just the seats
As a consumer each part is one more that can break and costs more to fix. One car i used to have it cost more to fix some components in the seat than it did to completely replace the seat with a new one.
Some things make sense like heated seats because it is so much more efficient
"I think the comment Elon made is the most important... the best part is no part." What Tesla's CEO had said is a very valid point. However, the statement goes back to times of Industrial Revolution and was popularised (in automotive industry anyway) by Henry Ford and then Toyoda.
PS. I wish people would stop referring to the CEO as "Elon". He isn't our friend or buddy.
👌🙏
You started loosing me when you spent time explaing what a seat is for then lost me when you explained why you used reference stickers and scan spray to scan the seat shape. Come on we are not idiots.
First!
Yeah Buddy!
Wait! If we use lawn chairs, we can save a ton of money. Lame video. Efficient manufacturing is one thing, saying brands are wasting money on features is not your job. Stay in your lane.
That is our job actually. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering, costing, and teardown benchmarking.
I think Munro and Associates knows exactly where its lane is, and as a company also decides where it wants it to be - you don't. Lame viewer. 🙄Stay in your lane.
MUNRO live - Carl , one problem.
KIA is highly OUTDATED as are Genesis & Hyundai BEV.
unable to Compete against TESLA & likes of BYD.
In video adverts..... detest them. Bye!
As a hyundai Santa Fe hybrid calligraphy owner, the seat comfort, ride, and mpg are really important to me. Obviously, price and looks also matter. But I'm not buying if the seat isn't comfortable and the ride isn't really good. Love my calf support. But I couldn't care less about the flexible headrest. I'm willing to pay for options, which is why I like hyundai/ Kia, nicely equipped for reasonable price.