hirogen were my favourite villain arc in voyager. one o the best thing about voyager was every group/season had a new re-occurring villain based on the new area of space they ran through. the kazon getting left farrrrr behind made me happy
While I in general agree, the Hirogen were one of my favorite antagonists on Voyager, I do think the Hirogen-WW2 double parter should have been something else. Perhaps something more like the "Most Dangerous Game" (crew being trapped on a planet as the Hirogen hunt them), as the Germans in this double parter were quite frankly Hollywood movie clichés. Season 4 and parts of 5 were my favorite VGR seasons.
For all those complaining about Species 8472 being weak here you seem to forget the Hirogen were hunters. Hunters don't attack their prey head on, they do what the Hirogen stated in the video, observe and learn. Once ready ensnare or attack from unseen location and weaken for the kill, or kill outright. Even a much larger, stronger prey can be brought down to manageable levels for the takedown.
I just love the Hirogen for exactly that. They are not stupid villains, not massively overpowered, in fact they are, as faction or race, pretty weak, which is part of their plot, actually. And yet, what makes them special is that they are hunters, and they are terrifying at that. They don't fight an enemy head on, they stalk and prey on them. But they don't forget at the same time, that a hunt is also a risk for the hunter. Which is, in their plot, one of the reasons their culture is in a bad shape. They are drifting apart, due to their hunting grounds, and they lose more of them than they can afford by overambitious hunting of too large/powerful prey.
The tactic they used in particular was pretty effective, they knew their prey was weakened and backed into a corner… a last gambit move to force them into a fight it could win. The commander entered the way species 8472 expected and took the counter attack, the other one flanked (and I assume the gun he choose was one particularly suited for that sort of fight). Even if the force of the gun hadn’t been enough to prevent its advance the pincer attack at the end would have. Tbh making something as strong as species 8472 look weak through sheer tactics is a good way to set up how dangerous the hirogen can be.
macro: Jem'Hadar Pride, glory, and other qualities of the Hirogen would not serve them well in a large scale conflict with the Jem'Hadar. Micro: just a handful against a handful, I give it to the Hirogen hands down.
At one point, Species 8472 is god-like entities, wiping out Borgs with couple shots. And it intends to "clean our space" like cleaning up ants. At another point, it is being hunted by nomads like Hirogen. And at one point, it is setting up settlement to mimic human society. It is one of the weirdest and consistent arc in Voyager story lines.
Personally I would have preferred if 8472 had maintained their “Ya’ll are nasty so we’re gonna wipe you out.” stance on our universe. Would’ve made them a more interesting enemy for Starfleet. Sure, like the Borg, they can’t be reasoned with, but unlike them, they aren’t interested in the people or culture. 8472 just wanted them _gone._
the first time we've seen Species 8472's handiwork, they left a pile of borg drones ripped apart in a gruesome display this guy must've been starving and weak at this point
@@si2foo Well I mean 8472 was able to destroy a whole planet with just few ships so this one must have been weak to the point of being almost dead because it should have easily destroyed the Hirogen ship. Hell just swipe at them and infect them. It was sorta out of character for sure but eh that was Voyager.
@@si2foo It’s a shame, cuz there were some really cool villain aliens they ran into like the Hirogen. Then again, Voyager was also responsible for some of the worst, like Neelix. And everyone’s least favorite species from any Star Trek series, the Kazon.
Yes, Hirogen are like English soccer players they run down their prey taken the strength of their enemy little by little until their enemy is too weak to fight back.
If you are so outraged by what is admittedly “soft sci-fi” why are you watching it?? And more strangely, taking the time and effort to make U-Tube comments on it??
When you create a new potential enemy that's powerful af, the only consistent way that Starfleet deals with them is by having the writers dumb the enemy down so much that one Federation ship can defeat the enemy just by calibrating something.
That's Voyager in a nutshell. Did the same thing with the Borg. I do have to give whoever designed 8472 some credit, though, for making something that looks pretty alien instead of yet another guy with stuff glued to his forehead.
@@177SCmaro Yeah I loved the design and tech. It's so ridiculously dumb that they were introduced as this juggernaut, but they can't beat a Federation science vessel because reasons.
@@zadkiel242 Worse than that, they were essentially nurtured in that episode, I forget the name, when Voyager stumbles across their, I guess biodome, which they could have built anywhere in their own realm but decided to build it in the middle of the Delta Quadrant also because reasons.
Tholians, Sheliak, Horta, Phylosians (and some other TAS aliens), the space jellies, the Dalaka 'wraiths' and even the Q and prophets. There are plenty alien aliens even though some pose as humans. Plus you know, the Progenitors. The reason most life in our galaxy is bipedal with two arms.
Their villains just demonstrated the worst human (and, frankly, American) qualities, mainly a complete lack of consideration for other communities and a tendency to violence for its own sake.
@@fluffyfour Yes because when it comes to respecting other people's values and not committing violence Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China, Russia - those nations that just ooze consideration, tollerence and an unyielding ability to refrain from taking life...
My problem with this scene is actually just the ending. It's scattering their sensors, running, hiding, and plotting an ambush. Then it... I guess comes down from the wall while the Hirogen's were on the other side of the cavern? They could at least have had it try to jump down on them and have them react in time, turning, shooting, and then backing off and flanking it as they continued to shoot. They still get their flawless kill, but it doesn't go out quite as much like a chump.
Star trek logic: We can build starships to travel the universe Time travel is a thing We can teleport shit and replicate our food. But we cant build a flashlight worth a shit.
Paul Adonia So...what we see here is that these Hirogen were pussies, and cowards, who were basically hunting a wounded lion with an M1 Abrams tank. And they feel so proud of themselves. As Shrek said, "Do you suppose he's compensating for something?"
Yeah, that makes sense; a failed culture, that needs some outside help to see how badly their culture has destroyed their civilization. Lucky for them the Federation is nicer than I'd be. My response to them would be this: th-cam.com/video/eirWmvB5YgQ/w-d-xo.html
Its never stated how many ships destroyed the 15 cubes. I think there were more but that one shown stayed in the debris to hunt drones in the destroyed cubes. I never though that that one ship shown desteoyed that armada. 8472 wasnt so powerfull. Remember even Voyager survived few hits.
@@emptank Star Trek has established Precedent that very large deep space asteroids can have an atmosphere and life. I don't know their science behind it, but it isn't that uncommon in the Trek Universe.
This and the episode where they caught 7of9 and Tuvok were the best Hirogen episodes. It shows their advanced technology and physiology adapted for the hunt. Later editors have written the Hirogen into pussies, with the Voyager disabling several of their ships single handedly and they being swarmed by some holograms and Starfleet cadets. What a bunch of crap! The Alpha in this episode took the 8472 in melee combat, he'd torn any Borg, Klingon or whatever species comes by into pieces.
Sadly the problems started in "The Killing Game" scenario, with the holographic WW2 scenario which was full of clichés. I think a much better double parter that really pushed the crew to the extreme limits to survive would have been if the Hirogen forced them to participate in something like "The Most Dangerous Game" scenario. "Flesh and Blood" was a disappointment. I find this very disappointing as the Hirogen were one of my favorite new species on Voyager. An enemy who was not after the crew of Voyager for their technology, but because they wanted to claim the remains of the crew as trophies.
@@TheDutchGhost I disagree I loved "Flesh N Blood" I always wanted to know what the Hirogen would do with the hologram technology that Capt Janeway gifted them at the end of "The Killing game I thought it was an interesting plot twist.
@@postmastersgt1670 I don't mind the idea of a follow up to the ending of The Killing Game, I just found the follow up rather disappointing because of a couple of decisions by the writers. For one I feel that the Hirogen have steadily been 'dismantled'. I am also not a fan of introducing a weak 'technician' class Hirogen that are treated poorly by the 'hunter' class. I find it a Trek trope.
@@postmastersgt1670 I did think it was in general better than most of season 7. While there were some interesting ideas in seasons 6 and 7, in general I found that the quality of the show started to decline.
Yes, the hirogen are the predator from star trek universe. The big difference is the hirogen are speaking and acting in space. By the way the spoken english is brilliant in this clip. The Star trek series' cannot be compared with each other. Enterprise, voyager and ds9 there are all fascinating at all. Hope to see more from hirogen and there flawless kills. ;)
I wish we could see more of the Breen. One was going to be one of the main characters of Star Yrek: Rogue (a Breen called "Prak"), but sadly that "fanmade" show made by old cast members was shot down due to legal rights. A shame, really. At least Episode 1 is still on TH-cam. No masterpiece by any means, but still very entertaining and retaining the elements that make it feel like a story trully set inside the Star Trek universe.
A Russian friend of mine back in the early 2000s once told me there were two kinds of people in the world: Italians, and everyone else that wanted to be Italian. Those war-paint colors @1:40 or so are testament to this statement extending to the Delta Quadrant.
Star Trek Voyager had flaws, but it was still a really good series. I know some people love it, but I will never put it on the level of TOS, TNG or DS9. That being said, it was still better than DISCOVERY, ENT or any other series and the JJ Abrams-verse. Ultimately, VOY deserves it's place in Star Trek history as a worthy installation with the "lost ship at sea" style and good storytelling. This episode brought in a lot to the Hirogen and made them a much more interesting species. The first episode of them was adequate in that it introduced a fairly interesting species that gave us a bit of intrigue but not a huge amount. We knew they were strong, powerful, liked to hunt and collect trophies. And Seven of Nine didn't like them. That was about as far as it went in the first episode of the Hirogen. Just in this scene alone, you get a feel for a "wave-motion" type of technology they prefer to button-pressing as most tech does. The "Alpha male and beta male" type of relationship they normally have and how they analyze the hunt thoroughly. Not the raw, barbaric cavemen-with-lasers type hunters, but very strategic, intelligent and focused. Far more deadly and menacing as an opponent. The preference at times to not use all the technology and maintain more focus on actual senses and reflexes, adding that a more "survivalist" type attitude is favored at times to keep them sharp. The willingness to engage an opponent no matter how frightening or powerful... the more dangerous and powerful, the greater the hunt. The desire to have ritualistic paint on their helmets/faces before a hunt, showing a cherish of tradition. The moment of pondering, considering which weapon to select, most likely based on the terrain, prey and strategy. Later in the episode and in later episodes themselves, you learn more. VOY did an excellent job with explaining this species. Very good storytelling.
DS9 had entertaining moments but all in all it was a blatent and sub-par Babylon 5 ripoff. I could at least sit through Voyager. As a pure Sci Fi experience, B5 was better than both by a country mile though.
@@MrDibara hunters (many of them) have a code of honour and are ethical, and I see the Hirogen as hunters with a code. I also do not view Klingons as very honourable, all throughout any of the series Klingons were shown to be less than honourable and only a very few individuals actually held to the honourable ideals of warriors (Worf, Martok). True warriors were like Andorians and even the Jem Hadar were far more honourable than the average Klingon.
@@waveman0 *Ya went and sunk the damn Klingons good, but* fair point. Even Worf would begrudgingly admit that. _Hmm, fair enough, but there's still a difference between "an honourable warrior" and an "honourable hunter"._ Ambushes and preying on the hunt when its weakened are probably not seen as disonarable, just common tactic. Maybe an example of disonorable would be to kill a mother caring for her cubs? Not too sure, I'm not familiar with hunting culture.
@@MrDibara totally agree between a warrior and hunter as far as their codes go but it is a mistake to believe all hunters are bloodthirsty killers without a code. Many hunters live by a code and hunt with honour. I know I am a hunter and hold to an ethical hunting code.
Cool scenes but you can tell they were limited in sets and special effects. I could picture all of this being shot in some small studio somewhere. The actors had very little room to move around so it definitely hurt what they could show with how they decided it would play out
tony todd is the best . THE most assuming presence on tv and film. from the "sho nuff" and candyman decades to stng ,ds9,enterprise,voyager,the fallen ,,,,love every performance . his voice is just killer
Lordy!! Sienta té -- Sit Down!! Tony Todd was not Sho-Nuff from The Last Dragon, Black kung-fu movie!! That character was played by the late, great Julius Carry (aka Briscoe County's side kick, Lord Bowler!!)
I never understood how a species like the Hirogen would manage to build ships strong enough to fight a bioship, which were powerful enough to take on the Borg.
That is the thing, when they were a civilization they managed to peak with technology to challange the best of the quadrant...but they debased themselves into the thrill of the hunt and their technology stagnates now the rest of the Quadrant is catching up a nd they are soon to be left behind.
When the 8472 psychically communicated with Tuvok, he explained that he and his ship were both severely damaged in the conflict with the Borg, and he was left behind when the rest of his kind retreated back to fluidic space.
@@eddieroche8176 And species 8472 have the EXACT SAME method of communication as the Vulcans. I mean what are the odds that of all people Tuvok is able to communicate with a species that is so alien that it resides in a different universe?
It is Star Trek writing, make enemies that make no sense, give them warp drive but have them be dumbasses so that you can have episodes like this. When Star Trek first came out the Klingons were the big bad, but that worked fine because they were technically no more powerful than the humans so the encounters worked, the Klingons were meant to be the Soviet Union. They had a 'warrior' mentality.
And, yet, he introduced the Borg. The one adversary that changed the core doctrine of the Federation, the very thing he tried to protect throughout the series. The Borg does not believe in peace, diplomacy, or co-existence. It is either be assimilated or be destroyed.
The Borg, as originally conceived and written, was indeed a novel and intimidating force. But as reckless writers fleshed them out further, the turned into as big of a farce as the Ferengi. Mr. Roddenberry did not do that.
@Jared Harris Except Species 8472 are sentient being with intelligence and can think and there can build and man a Starship. The xenomorph are indeed dangerous but are not sentient being and can't not think and can not build or use a starship. The xenomorph are only a dangerous alien beast
hard to believe that the Borg War happened so early in the series... but then again I grew up during syndication... so maybe my old mind is playing tricks on me again
The Hirogen were really under-used in Voyager. They were clearly a major power in the quadrant, but weren't really interested in anything but hunting. The 8472 ship hit them with a weapon that can one-shot Borg cubes, and the Hirogen *hull armour* absorbed it. The Hirogen could've dominated the quardant if they'd wanted.
True. I know why they do it tho. The audience would hear "they are entering an asteroid belt" and when we cut to the space scenes and it just looks like normal space it may confuse the general audience members. However when I saw this depiction of the asteroid belt with huge chunks in close proximity covering the field of view on the reimagined Cosmos series I shook my head in despair.
Roy Sherfan they make good plot devices for what is essentially an 18th century sea faring voyage, in space. Storms, currents and rocks i guess. As many would say, its not true science fiction like arthur c clarke or something.
In a star system with lower metallicity than the sun, there would be more densely packed debris in their asteroid belt. Also, early in a stars lifespan, there are a lot more rocks in the asteroid belt. Before planets form, an accretion disk is even more densely packed with debris than is depicted in this video.
In the end of the day, the Hirogen wouldn’t be able to kill the Undine if they weren’t wounded given that the Undine (Species 8472) are practically immortal in some sense.
I watched an episode or two of a hunting or outdoor channel on TV a few years ago. Pretty much the same story, some proud guy in camo outfit gets a powerful rifle with precision telescopic sight and finds himself a bear foraging for food. Shoots it from a distance then goes down and fondles the dead bear saying how great he feels, close to nature etc. Maybe Voyager does have a message in there.
A single 8472 ship could destroy several Borg Cubes with 100 of thousands Borg on it... but fighting against 2 Hirogen in their tiny vessel is that big problem?! How could that happen?
Can anyone tell me why the Species 8472 weapons don't work on Hirogen? I remember when Species 8472 first appeared, a single blast from their Bio-ships could blow up entire Borg cubes. But how come it only tickles the tiny Hirogen vessel?
Maybe Hirogen ships are defensively superior to the Borg Cubes. Remember Borg's greatest strength is numbers to overwhelm, and then mass assimilation. When they 'adapt' shields, what is more likely happening is that they compare weaponry to weapons they have previously encountered (of races they have assimilated), find one that is similar, access the collective's knowledge on how to counter and then adjust settings within the parameters they have gained from that collection of data rather than actual adaptation. The Hirogen, on the other hand, have crafted tech to specifically allow one ship, or a small group of ships to go up against opponents that they prefer to be more powerful and 'exotic'. This means they gear their ships with the hope of encountering more powerful and new species. ... Plus the Borg don't care about individuals, so is it really that big a deal if they lose a cube or two while they are referencing data and adapting shields in an encounter? They can probably (usually ) afford to not waste resources on shoaling up on defense beyond their shields, because the next cube will just take down the opposition and assimilate them just the same. The Hirogen not only value their individual lives, but also need to outfit their vessels knowing that most of the time they don't have backup near by to reach out to for help if things go sideways.
if you go back and watch again you will hear the Hirogen talking about the prey's weapons weakening. ( 0:43 ) Remember that the ships are bio based and I think tied into the pilot (confirmation on this would be appreciated). As the pilot was weakened so too was its ship. This was not a healthy member of species 8472 or this would have been a completely different fight with the Hirogen dying in the end.
@@musicandmoviefan9217 The episode states that this 8472 pilot/ship were injured in the Borg conflict and left behind by its people. The Hirogen had been hunting weakened prey for a long time... and still fail to actually kill it!
The pilot was wounded and cut off from resources of fluidic space. His energy output was low. Does not matter if it was a form of bioenergy. The ship could not produce enough force. But the other 9 ships that came out from fluidic space and combined and destroyed a Borg planet within seconds shows how powerful they are. Nobody can destroy a planet like that in star trek.
Typical Voyager writers and producers. Did nothing to improve the show over the 7 years they had with it, only introduced 7 of 9 in season 4 to get in the male viewers after the rating's started to decline.
So the only species that the Borg could not assimilate or defend themselves from is what makes “good sport” for the Hirogen… They’re not only ‘ard, they’re WELL ‘ARD.
a flawless performance by Tony Todd.
I knew i recognised his voice. Candyman in the building!!
@@Kumari_44 Just recognized the Axanar-voice.
I'm watching TNG... watched DS9 last month. Tony Todd is in Both! Multiple characters. He's a great actor.
Is there any other kind?
He also sounds like the Orc General attacking Minas Tirith.
I think the gun he picked up was a prop from a Men in Black movie.
Lol same, but I was also confused about the armor and thought they were wearing the Necromonger Armor from The Chronicles of Riddick
It does look like one a lot.
I concur
It's the other way around. This came out 15 years before MIB.
@@tonystolz4982 Incorrect.
Men in Black release: July 2, 1997
Voyager Season 4 premiere: Sep 3, 1997
I was half-expecting to hear: "FLAWLESS VICTORY. FATALITY!" hahaha
Nude Gamer ROFL MORTAL KOMBAT HAHA
Why do I recognize that voice!?
Me too lol
@@justathought3141 Candyman aka Tony Todd
@@sparkymist Tony Todd
On asteroid: "A flawless kill."
Later on ship: "Round 2!"
"Wait, what?"
😂👌🏾
Mortal combat!!! It's a cocktail join the 2 and shake up and put some Limon whit an umbrella, and whe have mortal trek combat star cocktail.
hirogen were my favourite villain arc in voyager. one o the best thing about voyager was every group/season had a new re-occurring villain based on the new area of space they ran through. the kazon getting left farrrrr behind made me happy
I hate hate hated the Kazon and their shitty matted hair
While I in general agree, the Hirogen were one of my favorite antagonists on Voyager, I do think the Hirogen-WW2 double parter should have been something else.
Perhaps something more like the "Most Dangerous Game" (crew being trapped on a planet as the Hirogen hunt them), as the Germans in this double parter were quite frankly Hollywood movie clichés.
Season 4 and parts of 5 were my favorite VGR seasons.
The Vidiians should of been the early season villain's. Not the Kazon. They could of ended it with the Doctor developing a cure.
Lol true.
F the Kazon!
Pretty sure the "superior officer" Hirogen is played by the same actor who played Worf's brother in STNG.
Indeed. Tony Todd.
TT rules
He also plays older Jake in Deep Space Nine
Yep, CandyMan.
Definitely getting a Tony Todd vibe from that guy.
For all those complaining about Species 8472 being weak here you seem to forget the Hirogen were hunters. Hunters don't attack their prey head on, they do what the Hirogen stated in the video, observe and learn. Once ready ensnare or attack from unseen location and weaken for the kill, or kill outright. Even a much larger, stronger prey can be brought down to manageable levels for the takedown.
Humans with spears could take down large prey using persistence hunting.
I just love the Hirogen for exactly that. They are not stupid villains, not massively overpowered, in fact they are, as faction or race, pretty weak, which is part of their plot, actually.
And yet, what makes them special is that they are hunters, and they are terrifying at that. They don't fight an enemy head on, they stalk and prey on them. But they don't forget at the same time, that a hunt is also a risk for the hunter.
Which is, in their plot, one of the reasons their culture is in a bad shape. They are drifting apart, due to their hunting grounds, and they lose more of them than they can afford by overambitious hunting of too large/powerful prey.
@@IndigoIndustrial You just said exactly what I was going to say, humans where doing this for a very very long time.
The tactic they used in particular was pretty effective, they knew their prey was weakened and backed into a corner… a last gambit move to force them into a fight it could win. The commander entered the way species 8472 expected and took the counter attack, the other one flanked (and I assume the gun he choose was one particularly suited for that sort of fight).
Even if the force of the gun hadn’t been enough to prevent its advance the pincer attack at the end would have. Tbh making something as strong as species 8472 look weak through sheer tactics is a good way to set up how dangerous the hirogen can be.
I didn't think the Undine were weak, they went toe to toe with the Borg and would've won too.
Tony Todd was great here as the alpha male Hirogen hunter. Just like he was as Worf's brother Kurn on TNG & DS9 (and of course old Jake Sisko).
Sounds more like vin diesel under that makeup.
huh?
Candy Man, Candy Man, Candy Man!
Don't forget Fleet Admiral Ramirez in Axanar.
I agree!! Your mom was great last night...oh my can she ever suck a golfball through a garden hose...
Wait a second... I know that voice... thats Kurn, Son of Mogh!
Indeed, it's Tony Todd. That voice is always very distinguishable.
I thought so to, but I learned on the star trek voyager website that it’s Dragern son of Draggoern.
Sounded like Vin Diesel in Pitch Black.
Yep. This is Tony Todd.
@@Randy-ry9ss Might sound like him. But it isn't.
Species 8472 said Candyman five times while facing a mirror.
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA - Nice......
Lol
That sounds better than half the episodes we got.
Be my victim!
And nothing happened
Candyman doesn't want to be destroy with the entire Earth
SIGHS MEMORIES OF THE 90s Todd you go candy man lol
Hirogen vs Jem'Hadar would be fun to see
“Victory is life”
“For the hunt”
Sounds like a stalemate
macro: Jem'Hadar Pride, glory, and other qualities of the Hirogen would not serve them well in a large scale conflict with the Jem'Hadar.
Micro: just a handful against a handful, I give it to the Hirogen hands down.
That was actually done in the 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Gateways' novel, 'Demons of Air and Darkness'.
@@johnharrison6745 and who won?
Hirogen vs. Predator
2:03 sounds like two Protoss warriors hunting for Zerg love how the masks give them that sound effect when they talk
@nickys34 Did some bot break here?
At one point, Species 8472 is god-like entities, wiping out Borgs with couple shots. And it intends to "clean our space" like cleaning up ants. At another point, it is being hunted by nomads like Hirogen. And at one point, it is setting up settlement to mimic human society. It is one of the weirdest and consistent arc in Voyager story lines.
It's interesting though. I guess they wanted to show that the Undine weren't top dog in this episode
It was just one of the species it wasn't like a army of them
Personally I would have preferred if 8472 had maintained their “Ya’ll are nasty so we’re gonna wipe you out.” stance on our universe. Would’ve made them a more interesting enemy for Starfleet.
Sure, like the Borg, they can’t be reasoned with, but unlike them, they aren’t interested in the people or culture. 8472 just wanted them _gone._
@@MisterPuck Yes, well put. You spoke my mind. Thank you!
I think you meant inconsistent.
Species 8472 was so boss they took on the Borg and Hirogens and won. Not many species can say that most either became relics or drones.
the first time we've seen Species 8472's handiwork, they left a pile of borg drones ripped apart in a gruesome display
this guy must've been starving and weak at this point
borg's aren't strong against things they can't adapt too
@@si2foo Well I mean 8472 was able to destroy a whole planet with just few ships so this one must have been weak to the point of being almost dead because it should have easily destroyed the Hirogen ship. Hell just swipe at them and infect them. It was sorta out of character for sure but eh that was Voyager.
@@PhilipWeberAB nah the reason it couldn't is due to voyagger being a shit show
@@si2foo
It’s a shame, cuz there were some really cool villain aliens they ran into like the Hirogen. Then again, Voyager was also responsible for some of the worst, like Neelix. And everyone’s least favorite species from any Star Trek series, the Kazon.
Yes, Hirogen are like English soccer players they run down their prey taken the strength of their enemy little by little until their enemy is too weak to fight back.
I find it amazing that the asteroid has wonderful gravity. Also great sunlight. Sometimes when they make their stuff they drive me nuts
You can find this sloppy writing in every single Star Trek series. And yes, I agree with you.
If you are so outraged by what is admittedly “soft sci-fi” why are you watching it??
And more strangely, taking the time and effort to make U-Tube comments on it??
This fantasy isn't real enough is always a hilarious take...
@@ICU1337waaaa
When you create a new potential enemy that's powerful af, the only consistent way that Starfleet deals with them is by having the writers dumb the enemy down so much that one Federation ship can defeat the enemy just by calibrating something.
That's Voyager in a nutshell. Did the same thing with the Borg. I do have to give whoever designed 8472 some credit, though, for making something that looks pretty alien instead of yet another guy with stuff glued to his forehead.
@@177SCmaro Yeah I loved the design and tech.
It's so ridiculously dumb that they were introduced as this juggernaut, but they can't beat a Federation science vessel because reasons.
@@zadkiel242
Worse than that, they were essentially nurtured in that episode, I forget the name, when Voyager stumbles across their, I guess biodome, which they could have built anywhere in their own realm but decided to build it in the middle of the Delta Quadrant also because reasons.
@@177SCmaro And they made it with a replica of Starfleet Academy all the people who worked there.
Star Trek needs better writers.
@@zadkiel242 yeah I never got how they had that kind of information. And its... never followed up again that they HAVE that kind of information.
8472 is the only alien in the entire star-trek universe that makes sense.
Tholians, Sheliak, Horta, Phylosians (and some other TAS aliens), the space jellies, the Dalaka 'wraiths' and even the Q and prophets. There are plenty alien aliens even though some pose as humans. Plus you know, the Progenitors. The reason most life in our galaxy is bipedal with two arms.
I will say this much for Voyager. they did create some of the best villains. Its a shame the heroes were so weak, personality wise
The "anti-hero" of the story seldom takes a true form when your dealing with alien races...
Another villain lover since they don't play by the rules !!
Did they return the Hirogen weapons to the Men in Black props team though?
Their villains just demonstrated the worst human (and, frankly, American) qualities, mainly a complete lack of consideration for other communities and a tendency to violence for its own sake.
@@fluffyfour Yes because when it comes to respecting other people's values and not committing violence Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China, Russia - those nations that just ooze consideration, tollerence and an unyielding ability to refrain from taking life...
My problem with this scene is actually just the ending. It's scattering their sensors, running, hiding, and plotting an ambush. Then it... I guess comes down from the wall while the Hirogen's were on the other side of the cavern? They could at least have had it try to jump down on them and have them react in time, turning, shooting, and then backing off and flanking it as they continued to shoot. They still get their flawless kill, but it doesn't go out quite as much like a chump.
yea its pretty dumb, the 8472 actually got the jump on them but still lost. i know it maybe works better for a jumpscare, but it doesnt make sense.
Say what you want about Voyager, they had some bad ass aliens. Man.
Bad ass aliens and really bad writing to go along with them.
They had Seven of Nine too. That's all you need! 😈
Voyager was freaking incredible! Final Season finale was mind blown!!
@@zadkiel242cry
"Hirogen Wins . . . FLAWLESS VICTORY . . . FATALITY!"
Heheh! It really wasn't...
That's a sweet bike helmet.
Candyman is an excellent actor and that voice is very intimidating.
Star trek logic:
We can build starships to travel the universe
Time travel is a thing
We can teleport shit and replicate our food.
But we cant build a flashlight worth a shit.
maybe they are all made in China.
@@davidbrown8303 shudder
Made in Asia, poor light, no QA, no batteries included.
Well, this was made in the 90s, before LED flashlights were a thing.
Not to mention that they have no safety belts ( like the ones in modern cars ) on the bridge !!
Tony Todd voice and stance hes a master at capturing the crowd!!
I wanna see a hirogen vs a predator...im just sayin.....
Are you super saiyan?
What's all this about
Or the Alien Queen! Might as well throw in a T-800 as well, while we’re at it. Oh, and Jar Jar Binks.
Depends on the Predator. If it's an experienced hunter, then the Hirogen would probably die.
the only way i could see a predator losing that fight is if it is one who has never hunted or received any training of any kind prior the the "fight"
Kurn, Admiral Ramirez, Tony Todd voice is sublime
April 5, 2063
24.6K subscribers The Hirogen are still an interesting nomadic hunting species.
Those Hirogens are badass
one bioship destroyed a borg fleet, yet these guys were able to defeat it
Paul Adonia
So...what we see here is that these Hirogen were pussies, and cowards, who were basically hunting a wounded lion with an M1 Abrams tank.
And they feel so proud of themselves. As Shrek said, "Do you suppose he's compensating for something?"
Yeah, that makes sense; a failed culture, that needs some outside help to see how badly their culture has destroyed their civilization. Lucky for them the Federation is nicer than I'd be. My response to them would be this:
th-cam.com/video/eirWmvB5YgQ/w-d-xo.html
Agree was about to say the same. Must have been fucked anyways before it was hunted
Its never stated how many ships destroyed the 15 cubes. I think there were more but that one shown stayed in the debris to hunt drones in the destroyed cubes. I never though that that one ship shown desteoyed that armada. 8472 wasnt so powerfull. Remember even Voyager survived few hits.
@@arekpetrosian4965
For the EMPEROR! Exterminatus!
Omg Tony Todd is so amazing and magnificent as a hirogen!! ❤
What kind of asteroid had dripping water and roots hanging from the tunnel ceiling?
Not to mention that an asteroid would not have ceiling or floor in it as there is no sense of direction.
Its the same one from star wars with the giant worm living in it.
The three of them are having a shoot out in it's colon.
@@emptank Star Trek has established Precedent that very large deep space asteroids can have an atmosphere and life. I don't know their science behind it, but it isn't that uncommon in the Trek Universe.
Or normal gravity.
The gravitational force of that asteroid is amazing.
Thought he going to say “flawless victory”
He's not powerful enough to fight copyrights
@@CaptRex501st 😅😅😅😅
This and the episode where they caught 7of9 and Tuvok were the best Hirogen episodes. It shows their advanced technology and physiology adapted for the hunt. Later editors have written the Hirogen into pussies, with the Voyager disabling several of their ships single handedly and they being swarmed by some holograms and Starfleet cadets. What a bunch of crap! The Alpha in this episode took the 8472 in melee combat, he'd torn any Borg, Klingon or whatever species comes by into pieces.
Sadly the problems started in "The Killing Game" scenario, with the holographic WW2 scenario which was full of clichés.
I think a much better double parter that really pushed the crew to the extreme limits to survive would have been if the Hirogen forced them to participate in something like "The Most Dangerous Game" scenario.
"Flesh and Blood" was a disappointment.
I find this very disappointing as the Hirogen were one of my favorite new species on Voyager. An enemy who was not after the crew of Voyager for their technology, but because they wanted to claim the remains of the crew as trophies.
@@TheDutchGhost I disagree I loved "Flesh N Blood" I always wanted to know what the Hirogen would do with the hologram technology that Capt Janeway gifted them at the end of "The Killing game I thought it was an interesting plot twist.
@@postmastersgt1670 I don't mind the idea of a follow up to the ending of The Killing Game, I just found the follow up rather disappointing because of a couple of decisions by the writers.
For one I feel that the Hirogen have steadily been 'dismantled'.
I am also not a fan of introducing a weak 'technician' class Hirogen that are treated poorly by the 'hunter' class.
I find it a Trek trope.
@@TheDutchGhost of course it wasnt better than the previous Hirogen episodes but it wasnt terrible. I got the meaning of what they were trying to do.
@@postmastersgt1670 I did think it was in general better than most of season 7.
While there were some interesting ideas in seasons 6 and 7, in general I found that the quality of the show started to decline.
I like the Rock Paper Scissors situation this creates with the Borg
This actor has the most distinctive voice. We all know who he is. Lol
Tony Todd aka Lord Haikon
@@xadam2dudex candy man
Vin diesel?
Yes! didn't realise it before. And he also played an older Jake Sisko.
I can tell without even looking at the credits that one of the aliens is Tony Todd
I love Christian Bale's performance as the asteroid belt
he ate 1,450 metric tons of iron-nickel ore to prepare for the role
Okay, I got a huge laugh out of that. Thanks.
Fukkin Candyman for the "Flawless Kill."
0:14 That guy speaking is also LT. Worf's brother Kurn from STNG.
Yes, the hirogen are the predator from star trek universe. The big difference is the hirogen are speaking and acting in space. By the way the spoken english is brilliant in this clip.
The Star trek series' cannot be compared with each other.
Enterprise, voyager and ds9 there are all fascinating at all.
Hope to see more from hirogen and there flawless kills. ;)
I wish we could see more of the Breen. One was going to be one of the main characters of Star Yrek: Rogue (a Breen called "Prak"), but sadly that "fanmade" show made by old cast members was shot down due to legal rights.
A shame, really. At least Episode 1 is still on TH-cam. No masterpiece by any means, but still very entertaining and retaining the elements that make it feel like a story trully set inside the Star Trek universe.
Now that is an excellent BFG - big fucking gun.
A Star Trek/Predator crossover is what the world needs.
It just goes to show how dangerous the Hirogen can be
A Russian friend of mine back in the early 2000s once told me there were two kinds of people in the world: Italians, and everyone else that wanted to be Italian. Those war-paint colors @1:40 or so are testament to this statement extending to the Delta Quadrant.
Tony Todd…recognize that voice no matter what species he is portraying
Star Trek Voyager had flaws, but it was still a really good series. I know some people love it, but I will never put it on the level of TOS, TNG or DS9.
That being said, it was still better than DISCOVERY, ENT or any other series and the JJ Abrams-verse. Ultimately, VOY deserves it's place in Star Trek history as a worthy installation with the "lost ship at sea" style and good storytelling.
This episode brought in a lot to the Hirogen and made them a much more interesting species. The first episode of them was adequate in that it introduced a fairly interesting species that gave us a bit of intrigue but not a huge amount. We knew they were strong, powerful, liked to hunt and collect trophies. And Seven of Nine didn't like them. That was about as far as it went in the first episode of the Hirogen.
Just in this scene alone, you get a feel for a "wave-motion" type of technology they prefer to button-pressing as most tech does. The "Alpha male and beta male" type of relationship they normally have and how they analyze the hunt thoroughly. Not the raw, barbaric cavemen-with-lasers type hunters, but very strategic, intelligent and focused. Far more deadly and menacing as an opponent. The preference at times to not use all the technology and maintain more focus on actual senses and reflexes, adding that a more "survivalist" type attitude is favored at times to keep them sharp. The willingness to engage an opponent no matter how frightening or powerful... the more dangerous and powerful, the greater the hunt. The desire to have ritualistic paint on their helmets/faces before a hunt, showing a cherish of tradition. The moment of pondering, considering which weapon to select, most likely based on the terrain, prey and strategy.
Later in the episode and in later episodes themselves, you learn more. VOY did an excellent job with explaining this species. Very good storytelling.
DS9 had entertaining moments but all in all it was a blatent and sub-par Babylon 5 ripoff. I could at least sit through Voyager. As a pure Sci Fi experience, B5 was better than both by a country mile though.
They must be Italian with those war paint colors
I expected him to say "Flawless Victory".
Tony Todd… such a distinctive voice. He’s hungry for anything but burned replicated bird meat.
You know, i never watched star trek, but this sequence was awesome! cool costumes of the hunters
I’m interested in their armor...
I think I would use it in combat against any enemy in Star Trek!
He did say it can defeat most hostile environments. So it's logical to assume that it is also highly durable as well
Those Hirogens have got themselves some Men in Black weaponry lol
Kurn is patient
I honestly believe an alpha Hirogen like him would have preferred to take that Undine in honourable hand-to-hand combat, they are capable of it.
Hirogen are hunters, not warriors of honor. Think of them less as Klingons and more like the Predator, but with no code of honor.
@@MrDibara hunters (many of them) have a code of honour and are ethical, and I see the Hirogen as hunters with a code.
I also do not view Klingons as very honourable, all throughout any of the series Klingons were shown to be less than honourable and only a very few individuals actually held to the honourable ideals of warriors (Worf, Martok).
True warriors were like Andorians and even the Jem Hadar were far more honourable than the average Klingon.
@@waveman0 *Ya went and sunk the damn Klingons good, but* fair point. Even Worf would begrudgingly admit that.
_Hmm, fair enough, but there's still a difference between "an honourable warrior" and an "honourable hunter"._ Ambushes and preying on the hunt when its weakened are probably not seen as disonarable, just common tactic. Maybe an example of disonorable would be to kill a mother caring for her cubs? Not too sure, I'm not familiar with hunting culture.
@@MrDibara totally agree between a warrior and hunter as far as their codes go but it is a mistake to believe all hunters are bloodthirsty killers without a code. Many hunters live by a code and hunt with honour. I know I am a hunter and hold to an ethical hunting code.
that's gotta be the same actor as Worf's brother... that voice!
The original predator.
I'd watch a series about them!
Tony Todd, a Star Trek GOAT
All that buildup to have 2 actors stand there motionless while a prop weapon with no recoil shoots snowflakes at a CG alien until it falls asleep
the same alien beheads the hunters later in the episodes, because apparently they couldnt kill 8472 with thier weapons.
May be the weapon fires incredibly light energetic stuff. But how an asteroid can have what seems to be 1g equivalent gravity evades me.
Sounds like the Army to me :)
Cool scenes but you can tell they were limited in sets and special effects. I could picture all of this being shot in some small studio somewhere. The actors had very little room to move around so it definitely hurt what they could show with how they decided it would play out
@@richardgalassi1380 VFX over 20 years ago were very expensive, all the extras like no gravity and CG body doubles were out of reach per episode.
Was that Tony Todd as the Senior?
I think it was. Sure sounded like him.
Yes, it was. I like him, but they over use their favorite actors, like Combs as well.
I love Tony Todd!
I pictured him also. We are true nerds.
He is the alpha.
I remember watching this and watching Deep Space Nine during the Dominion war the Hirogen was really cool.
It’s future jake sisko, dota 2 dragon knight, dota 2 viper !
The days are over where Species 8472 ships were one shotting borg cubes. - 0:36
Tony Todd has such a great voice
Tony Todd has one of those voices that just screams badass..
tony todd is the best . THE most assuming presence on tv and film. from the "sho nuff" and candyman decades to stng ,ds9,enterprise,voyager,the fallen ,,,,love every performance . his voice is just killer
Lordy!! Sienta té -- Sit Down!! Tony Todd was not Sho-Nuff from The Last Dragon, Black kung-fu movie!! That character was played by the late, great Julius Carry (aka Briscoe County's side kick, Lord Bowler!!)
Well put. He was uniquely outstanding in his numerous roles and portrayals.
I never understood how a species like the Hirogen would manage to build ships strong enough to fight a bioship, which were powerful enough to take on the Borg.
That is the thing, when they were a civilization they managed to peak with technology to challange the best of the quadrant...but they debased themselves into the thrill of the hunt and their technology stagnates now the rest of the Quadrant is catching up a nd they are soon to be left behind.
When the 8472 psychically communicated with Tuvok, he explained that he and his ship were both severely damaged in the conflict with the Borg, and he was left behind when the rest of his kind retreated back to fluidic space.
@@eddieroche8176 And species 8472 have the EXACT SAME method of communication as the Vulcans. I mean what are the odds that of all people Tuvok is able to communicate with a species that is so alien that it resides in a different universe?
It is Star Trek writing, make enemies that make no sense, give them warp drive but have them be dumbasses so that you can have episodes like this. When Star Trek first came out the Klingons were the big bad, but that worked fine because they were technically no more powerful than the humans so the encounters worked, the Klingons were meant to be the Soviet Union. They had a 'warrior' mentality.
@@zadkiel242 the Ocampa and Betazoids are also telepathic
Gene Roddenberry would never have allowed this ridiculousness.
And, yet, he introduced the Borg. The one adversary that changed the core doctrine of the Federation, the very thing he tried to protect throughout the series. The Borg does not believe in peace, diplomacy, or co-existence. It is either be assimilated or be destroyed.
The Borg, as originally conceived and written, was indeed a novel and intimidating force. But as reckless writers fleshed them out further, the turned into as big of a farce as the Ferengi. Mr. Roddenberry did not do that.
Commander Kurn of the Klingon Defense Force going deep undercover on this one.
Yes. Very distinctive voice.
the proper name never mantioned in the show of speices 8472 is actually the undine
Interesting. I recall that in the H P Lovecraft mythos the Undine were aquatic ancient ones, but my recollection may be faulty.
Everyone see's the parallel to the Predator, right?
@Jared Harris Except Species 8472 are sentient being with intelligence and can think and there can build and man a Starship. The xenomorph are indeed dangerous but are not sentient being and can't not think and can not build or use a starship.
The xenomorph are only a dangerous alien beast
@@jeancabaille actually the xenomorphs are very intelligent and sentient
Welcome to 1997.
hard to believe that the Borg War happened so early in the series... but then again I grew up during syndication... so maybe my old mind is playing tricks on me again
The Hirogen were really under-used in Voyager. They were clearly a major power in the quadrant, but weren't really interested in anything but hunting. The 8472 ship hit them with a weapon that can one-shot Borg cubes, and the Hirogen *hull armour* absorbed it. The Hirogen could've dominated the quardant if they'd wanted.
so Alien vs. Predator
SCI FI never gets qhat asteroid belts and nebulae actually are...
True. I know why they do it tho. The audience would hear "they are entering an asteroid belt" and when we cut to the space scenes and it just looks like normal space it may confuse the general audience members. However when I saw this depiction of the asteroid belt with huge chunks in close proximity covering the field of view on the reimagined Cosmos series I shook my head in despair.
Roy Sherfan they make good plot devices for what is essentially an 18th century sea faring voyage, in space. Storms, currents and rocks i guess. As many would say, its not true science fiction like arthur c clarke or something.
Did Spacedock send you?
No, asteroids have been proven to contain roots even in environments likely to be 50K temperature.
In a star system with lower metallicity than the sun, there would be more densely packed debris in their asteroid belt. Also, early in a stars lifespan, there are a lot more rocks in the asteroid belt. Before planets form, an accretion disk is even more densely packed with debris than is depicted in this video.
Species 8472 reminds me of the Spice Navigators of Dune.
Hirogen, Dominion, Borg and species 8472 , I want to see them in a fight all together.
Tony Todd does voice acting too right? I think I've heard him in some things. Can't remember what though.
Come oooonnn who here thought he was going to say Flawless Victory?
FINISH HIM
At least it wasn't a babality
Odo is MAD
"I WANT MY FUCKING MONEY!" said the pissed off Hirogen commander
Let's get fully armored, grab a couple of flamethrowers, and go hunting wounded lions.
Yeah, that sounds like something to be proud of.
In the end of the day, the Hirogen wouldn’t be able to kill the Undine if they weren’t wounded given that the Undine (Species 8472) are practically immortal in some sense.
@@sashingopaul3111 Where did you find the name Undine?
@@VulcanOnWheels Star Trek lore and Star trek online
I watched an episode or two of a hunting or outdoor channel on TV a few years ago. Pretty much the same story, some proud guy in camo outfit gets a powerful rifle with precision telescopic sight and finds himself a bear foraging for food. Shoots it from a distance then goes down and fondles the dead bear saying how great he feels, close to nature etc. Maybe Voyager does have a message in there.
@@klave8511 hunting for sport is disgusting imo. ill never hunt ill just buy dead animals flesh in stores to eat. no need to kill for fun.
Shoulda said Flawless Victory :-\
thank for uploading a film.
Poor Jar Jar, he's seen better days.
A single 8472 ship could destroy several Borg Cubes with 100 of thousands Borg on it... but fighting against 2 Hirogen in their tiny vessel is that big problem?! How could that happen?
We can only assume that the ship was badly wounded and near death to begin with, as was his/her pilot.
@@IthirahadThe episode states as much.
Can anyone tell me why the Species 8472 weapons don't work on Hirogen? I remember when Species 8472 first appeared, a single blast from their Bio-ships could blow up entire Borg cubes. But how come it only tickles the tiny Hirogen vessel?
Maybe Hirogen ships are defensively superior to the Borg Cubes. Remember Borg's greatest strength is numbers to overwhelm, and then mass assimilation. When they 'adapt' shields, what is more likely happening is that they compare weaponry to weapons they have previously encountered (of races they have assimilated), find one that is similar, access the collective's knowledge on how to counter and then adjust settings within the parameters they have gained from that collection of data rather than actual adaptation. The Hirogen, on the other hand, have crafted tech to specifically allow one ship, or a small group of ships to go up against opponents that they prefer to be more powerful and 'exotic'. This means they gear their ships with the hope of encountering more powerful and new species.
...
Plus the Borg don't care about individuals, so is it really that big a deal if they lose a cube or two while they are referencing data and adapting shields in an encounter? They can probably (usually ) afford to not waste resources on shoaling up on defense beyond their shields, because the next cube will just take down the opposition and assimilate them just the same. The Hirogen not only value their individual lives, but also need to outfit their vessels knowing that most of the time they don't have backup near by to reach out to for help if things go sideways.
if you go back and watch again you will hear the Hirogen talking about the prey's weapons weakening. ( 0:43 ) Remember that the ships are bio based and I think tied into the pilot (confirmation on this would be appreciated). As the pilot was weakened so too was its ship. This was not a healthy member of species 8472 or this would have been a completely different fight with the Hirogen dying in the end.
Intergalactic rock, paper, scissors.
@@musicandmoviefan9217 The episode states that this 8472 pilot/ship were injured in the Borg conflict and left behind by its people. The Hirogen had been hunting weakened prey for a long time... and still fail to actually kill it!
The pilot was wounded and cut off from resources of fluidic space. His energy output was low. Does not matter if it was a form of bioenergy. The ship could not produce enough force. But the other 9 ships that came out from fluidic space and combined and destroyed a Borg planet within seconds shows how powerful they are. Nobody can destroy a planet like that in star trek.
Methinks the prop staff from Men in Black were also in charge of the weapons in this episode 😀
That's candyman!
8472 were a great threat till the Voyager writers shat in their own nests with that 'Hologram-Earth' storyline.
Typical Voyager writers and producers.
Did nothing to improve the show over the 7 years they had with it, only introduced 7 of 9 in season 4 to get in the male viewers after the rating's started to decline.
@@ValiantWrestling Ratings.
So the only species that the Borg could not assimilate or defend themselves from is what makes “good sport” for the Hirogen… They’re not only ‘ard, they’re WELL ‘ARD.
Genious to make body suits based on bike helmets!
Command me all day with that voice my dude.
Plant roots on an asteroid !!
You DO UNDERSTAND the origins of asteroids, yes?? It can very well be the remnants of a planet. So....duh!!
Scorpion's and Predator's love child, though Predator would win!
Always wondered what the Hirogen would have thought of the Jemadar.
Flawless Victory'/!!!