I FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT THIS: putting a mirror on the outside of a rocket IS another option, but it ends up cutting into the camera's field of view really hard, so I'm not a fan. To get the same FOV as having the sensor outside, you'd need a larger mirror which would add to overall drag more than the sensor itself. Anyway - lots of ways to solve the camera problem!
I spent some time trying to come up with a clever way to have a camera on my land speed car that doesn't add much drag. I was considering drilling a lens-sized hole in the side and sticking half of a 360 camera up against the inside. So I'd have a 180° lens just slightly poking out the side, which would give me front, back, and side views with basically no drag penalty.
I liked your solution on the top of the fin. I wonder if you could use the 360 degree cameras in little fins like that in other places. I don't know the convergence point of the two 180 degree lenses, but presumably it's at least a few inches, so you could have a pretty good streamlined fin hidden inside the convergence zone that the camera wouldn't see. It would add a few weird little fins to the car, but probably wouldn't have a terrible drag penalty on something that size.
To me that would be the obvious solution here too. Stick one lens out one side, the other lens out the other and stabilise the image in edit. That would solve the roll issue he was having too.
Thermal paste is designed to be applied very thin to fill in the microscopic surfaces in the materials, it isn't actually that good at conducting heat. Covering things like caps and resistors will just make them hotter as you're containing all the heat around them with all that paste.
Yes thermal paste isn't a very good thermal conductor. Heat transfer is a complicated thing and it's hard to know if it hurt or helped without doing some calculations. If I remember my heat transfer equations correctly, the ideal size for wire insulation for cooling is k/h, but obtaining the value of h is not trivial. Thermal pads are frequently used to cover gaps on the order of maybe 1-2 mm to a heatsink in electronics
I was thinking K5 PRO would be a better fit here, since it's intended as a thermal pad replacement. Obviously, either way, his application worked out just fine for him.
@DaimyoD0 if I was going to all this effort to make a 4k cam I could move between rockets/my future projects I would use a metal housing filled with a dielectric liquid oil to exchange heat to the case and then heat sink the case. I would mount the lense flat on one of the sides of the metal case, mount the case completely internal to the rocket and use an angled mirror like a periscope on the outside to get the angle/shot I want. I do get that weight and size are a factor, but that's what I'd do.
while you do that im going get these small cams in ur backyard to watch you make that rocket project.. thank u imagine all the other things people can do and place them
An ultrasonic knife would make cutting open the case much easier. It doesn't wear out like a wheel, it doesn't spray particles around, and the knife can't cut most of the things inside (while the dremel will cut through anything).
@@T-Ball-o NO, do not fuck with xylene. Are you mad ? Are you hoping that people will follow your advice and you're chuckling about it because you know what Xylene is and the hazards it brings forth ? Or are you dumb ?
Ultrasonic knives are absolutely awesome... and annoyingly expensive. I so want one, but I don't want to spend like $500 to $1,000 for one that isn't crap. Arg.
"you cannot daisy chain them together, that does not work" I haven't dealt with these specific Flat Flex Cables but I have put a truely frustrating number of hours and dollars into getting longer cables for an Arducam. The key thing I eventually understood was causing a great deal of my frustration is that FFCs have a special property, the chirality of the cable is determined by whether the ends of the cable are on the same side or opposite sides. Critically, the two arducam products I bought expect to have a crossover cable, where the connectors are facing opposite directions, so the pins are reversed between a pair of sockets that have the same Up (nothing can be consistent). This adds a multiplication step. Crossover connectors are times -1, an even number of them daisychained balanced out into a straight-thru cable, while an odd number is the same as a longer crossover cable. Straight-thru cables are times 1, they do not modify the situation no matter how many you have. But you may require the situation to be modified. So you can do extensions with 3 crossovers or 1 crossover and 1 straight-thru, but one straight-thru on it's own or two crossovers will cause a chip on the sensor board to get very hot, potentially destroying it, I got lucky. This is specifically in regards to the SD extender, if you can find a combination of extenders that are built different, you may be able to daisychain them. By all appearances the control board to sensor FFC is straight-thru, the lever arm style sockets have the cable's contacts facing the PCB and the lever pushes the cable down into the socket's contacts; while the sockets with a black U shaped piece you push in have the cable's contacts facing away from the PCB and the U piece is a wedge that shoves the cable up into the socket's contacts. btw, based on how your screwdriver isn't mating well with those two phillips screws, I suspect they're actually JIS #0 or #1, which have a shorter tip and a steeper angle on the flutes. When you put a similar size phillips bit into a JIS, the flutes only barely touch at the inside corners of the cross, making them strip easily. Again with the laptops, HP used JIS for a minute in the early 2010s, and Lenovo does whatever they want, as hard as they want, at all times. This just means Gopro was beating you at the weird use of a cross-head screw game.
Thermal paste like that is not designed for those thicknesses. Part of the reason the stock unit used thermal pads. You're looking for thermal putty like K5 Pro. Also, thermal mass buys you time but little actual dissipation. Remember, a heat sink works to dissipate more heat than the equivalent non-ribbed mass of the same material thanks to not only surface area for airflow but also radiation. Lastly, spreading your thermal paste onto non-heat-generating components might induce a failure by conducting heat to to those SMD components which wouldn't normally be heated (though, probably not a serious concern).
Seeing people slather thermal paste makes me cringe. I bet these people who load their shit up would probably freak out that I don't use enough but yet I never have heating issues and get excellent performance.
I think part of the reason he didn’t use a heatsink is because the options are put it inside the rocket or put it outside the rocket. Inside the rocket doesn’t do much good because it’s a tight, sealed space with no airflow. Outside a rocket would be very difficult to do without impacting aerodynamics. Adding thermal mass might not be the best solution, but it is a good enough solution, and knowing when to call something good enough and walk away is really important in engineering.
Thanks! It's so exciting to be able to come along with you on your journey. I can't afford much, but these last two "No effort November" videos have just been so good. I spent 27 minutes listening to your excitement about cameras and epoxy....and i feel like i totally understand the learning journey you took just to ensure we all get to watch what happens (plus data, ya ya). Please continue the style of no effort November. I wish I could afford more but sending a very small token just to say thanks, and you're awesome, and i look forward to your videos as much as a starship launch.
I agree, since metal actually doesn't have very good thermal mass, you would want to use something a lot more "dense" like wax or mineral oil. Another idea would be to use a heat sink and use the thermal mass of the air in the body tube (more weight efficient), however I have no idea how effective that would be in practice.
@@BPSspace If you have the mass budget, you can just hot glue a "floor" to one end of the camera section and pour molten paraffin in to make the camera section solid with a bit less mass imbalance. Sealing the other end is optional, but probably worth it to keep the mass in a predictable place once it starts melting and to keep the liquid available as a thermal conductor. edit: my experience is not with rockets, and the overheating electronics have never been cameras for me. But a plug/bath of paraffin is a useful hack for a lot of projects with sealed electronics packages where you are too lazy to plumb proper cooling.
EGO actually uses this method on their power tool batteries to extend their runtime. The battery is set to go into thermal shutdown a few degrees higher than the wax melting point, so you get the entire phase change period of the wax for "free".
honestly, companys should sell naked versions of their products more often. I understand why they don't; certification, import rules, and a long, long list of other problems come to mind. but damm would it be useful and interesting.
@@owensparks5013yes a company called framework sells their laptop this way, you can buy a complete laptop or a bare bone laptop and buy l Displays, motherboard, io battery etc and assemble it yourself... Many people just bought a motherboard and made a compact/mini pc with it.
15:13 - I believe the base in most thermal compounds is a silicone oil. This is per derbauer who works at thermal grizzly, a thermal paste manufacturer for PC components.
I'll 2nd that, it's what I've heard too. I think those little single-use packets of white thermal compound U get with CPUs are sometimes even labelled: "Silicone thermal grease", silicone oil being the base ingredient. Silicone oil is also used as a... Um... "Nosecone" high quality lubricant that doesn't slowly dry out during intended use (unlike more commonly used water-based lubricants). Tho it should NOT be used if your nosecone is also made of silicone rubber, since they will cross-react & slowly degrade the silicone rubber. Just incase anyone wanted to know where to easily get off-the-shelf silicone oil 😁
Honestly you should totally get the goggles for the O3 unit as using those units in the future will be cheaper than continuously buying GoPros. Also, seeing the video feed live through the goggles is an amazing experience.
Joe, you're quickly becoming my favorite channel. Perfect mix of tech, fab, action, and "humor". I didnt realize until I saw you posted a new vid and it made me really happy.
have you considered using a normal camera inside the rocket, pointing at a mirror protruding frome the airframe, like some kind of periscope? and if yes, what has motivated your choice?
the pinned comment explains this, but in case you didn't see it: the FOV of the footage will be limited to the size of the mirror, so if you have a 2 inch size mirror (which will be about the same amount sticking outside the airframe with his setup), your fov will be severely limited compared to the wide(r) angle lens the GoPro gives you with the same amount of drag.
u have no idea how much this video helped me, i was trying to build a camera into glasses so i can film stuff on the street incognito and i gave up 2 days ago because i ripped the ribbon cable and i was already at my 2nd gopro hero 12 ruined for this project and i could not afford going further like this, but your video helped me finish this, so i swear, one day, i'll get back to you if this project finally works, thanks again man, you have no idea how much this helped me
11:26 Made me realize just how close "Mic Hole" is to "My Goal". Also the settings in the QR code able to be scanned in the extra barebones model is so cool, I wish it was added to other brands as well, like DJI and Insta360.
For increasing runtime, it may be worth investigating phase change materials, which can absorb heat by melting a solid material. I've seen this used in a firefighting thermal camera to protect the insides from external heat. No idea on sources/types I'm afraid!
Yeah this. There's even the potting epoxies meant for potting electronics for enhanced environmental resistance and many of those are thermally conductive.
A thin film of non-electrically-conductive material followed by a conductive epoxy with higher heat conduction would probably be ideal. That said, the thermal paste is a really simple solution. There's a LOT of value in just doing something that works, even if it is a wild abuse of thermal paste.
Agreed an its not even that hard to self make a thermal epoxy, look for the channel Tech Ingredients and his adventure into making a thermal epoxy that outperformed some of the best thermal pastes with Linus Tech Tips
Joe, thank you so much for featuring us! 🚀 Rocket onboard footage is always thrilling and inspiring, and we're amazed to see our cameras as part of this incredible journey. It's exciting to witness our technology in action during a rocket launch. Huge thanks again for showcasing our cameras-we truly appreciate it!
Dude, these have gotten good, like I’m not watching bc rockets, I’m watching bc of the engineering jokes and that it validates the wacky design decisions we all make. Keep it up!
I’ve been watching you since the beginning, and you are an inspiration. You’ve come so far as a scientist and an engineer, please never give up. You’ve got this, just keep going!
Really enjoy your videos. Always so impressive to see how much you've learned since the last video and how willingly you share your newfound skill and the problems you experienced along the way. You're a good guy. We are fortunate to have you.
Let's be honest. You don't want a GoPro sponsorship; you want a FoxConn sponsorship. You want all of the GoPro parts in a custom frame that's specific to your needs. That's no what GoPro does, that's what Foxconn does.
7:45 we used similar cables to these with Ardupilot/PX4 flight controller. They failed to log about 9/10 times, perhaps they use i2c instead of the full SD bus.
The first thermal paste application is not really necessary imo. The factory thermal paste should be 'adequate' under most circumstances, even if you consider the extremes as in your case, THAT much thermal paste does more harm than good. Contrary to it's name thermal paste is not really a good conductor of heat, now don't get me wrong, it's certainly better than air, but it isn't very good. It's job is only to fill in the microscopic air bubbles between heatsink surface and processor package. Usually you want as thin layer of it as possible, so that heat can travel most efficiently. If you put a thick layer of thermal paste, it may actually act as insulator. Instead what I'd recommend is that you repaste the processor (if really necessary, probably run some tests to see if there is any difference) and you should be good. On a side note, I have a question.... Can't you use some kind of air diverter to provide some airflow to the camera. I mean if there is a system which has lower drag losses as compared to adding extra mass to the rocket, it will be better. Edit:- Maybe you could machine the aluminium in shape of heat sink and add a small fan inside? (I mean 2 flat surfaces for the cameras, and instead of solid aluminium it will have fin like structure in between). It will also provide some airflow for other components on the board. I had seen a video on Linus Tech Tips regarding a piezoelectric fan which has high static pressure, maybe that could be used. Edit 2:- you should also clean the surface of aluminium with something like IPA or Acetone so that you have a clean surface for thermal paste to adhere to. And one more thing I forgot to mention, the 'spreading' of thermal paste may introduce some bubbles which may not be fully removed, so it would be better to use zig zag lines of paste and apply pressure to the aluminium block. This will squish it together and reduce the possibility of air bubbles and also result in thinner layer of thermal paste.
You should watch the 360 drone video from corridor crew. they show off a camera that allows you to put a lens on on either side of an object to create a seamless 360 video. this would mean with only two lenses you could choose whatever framing you wanted and stabilize for rotation. It might not be a perfect solution, but I feel like 360 videos would be sick
Go pro seriously need to think about it and redesign a modular “pleaceable” configurable camera to fit inside this, submarines, rc’s, helmets or anywhere you need, it would make them provide solutions in to a market never thought yet. Meanwhile it happens you can try the new runcam thumb 4K, it seems have great features and quality and affordable price. Your heat aluminum dissipating block could be upgraded by making a CNC cutting diamond or strip pattern, it can add more dissipate surface to the block
I second the runcam suggestion! Pretty good quality for such a cheap/light/small camera. You can make it even smaller/lighter by stripping the case, and it also has the QR settings system that the GoPro has
I know that sharkbyte has a digital camra like the DJI one I dont think its FHD but its super small and im pretty sure as long as you get their decoder you can use it with anything
what about a aluminium heat shield that also holds the lens in place and is mounted on the outside of the rocket? Like its inside but its flush with the rocket wall and theres a cutout so the aluminium has direct contact with the outside air. this would work as a nice heatsink and allow you to cool your camera for basically free (energy and space wise).
I was thinking the same thing, and since he is already mounting the cameras in a section of tube, making the tube the heat sink might save some weight. Having the heat sink in the air flow would make it more effective. Maybe even add a few fins. He needs to get JLC3DP as a sponsor and 3d print such a metal camera mount.
Just a little heads up: Thermal paste only does it's job properly if it is applied THIN. If you apply too much of it in a too thick manner, it will not do what it is made to do. Which is transfer the heat as good and as quick as possible onto a metal surface.
11:30 - thermal paste isn't that good of a heat conductor for filling gaps, it would be more effective to apply paste and squish a chunk of aluminium or copper to the plate that actually fits *inside* the rim or fill the space with a metal shim. EDIT - OK, seems good enough anyway. 15:09 - usually some sort of silicone oil
I think you should try the o3. It’s the same quality video as a GoPro but much less expensive even if you got an entirely new set of goggles for every rocket it’s still cheaper. The o3 is $180 and the cheapest set of goggles from DJI is $230 180x3+230=$770, 770 is less than 900. It’s also smaller, lighter, you would be able to see live video from the rocket, you can move the camera around without needing to take the entire thing apart, and if you do need to it’s just 4 screws.
Sounds good to me too. I'm puzzled why he resists the o3 also. You can pair the goggles to each new set of o3 modules just keep adding them to the goggles. You only have to set it once and you're good. He'll only need 1 set of goggles and you can verify the settings before launch each time. You can even start recording with the same enable function. It's almost like he thinks that the goggles and o3 are an exclusive matched set of something. I don't understand the issue of having to set record settings once for each camera ONCE. Can't you start recording from the flight controller just like the Go Pro?
QR code for settings changes sounds extremely convenient! ..And an extremely interesting attack vector :) Change the resolution, fps. It looks like you might even be able to "stop" recording but unclear if thats purely a USB trigger.
Having watched the live stream, it made me giggle when you said at the start you'll get to the heat solution.... loved the stream about this teardown btw, it would be fun to see more of those
With regards to SD cards, and knowing you've lost a few of them to some harder-than-optimal landings or McYeeting camera's out of the airframe at some point during flight, have you considered adding some sort of "Black Box" type containers for your SD-cards, or by extension, for your flight data? Now that you're going higher and faster with each launch, the possibility of permanently damaging them without recovery options gets higher and higher. And by black box I mean like actual aircraft flight data recorders, with the memory units inside some container with shock absorbtion and a tough case. Since you're using SD extention cables anyway you might as well put the other end of that extender somewhere safe so that footage and flight data stay protected in case your rocket decides it want to come down as fast as it went up.
An aircraft "Black Box" is located in a known high survivability location. They are well insulated against fire, but not as armored as people think. Four of my rockets have survived impacts with the ground without loss of data or connection to the SD card. These impacts ranged from 600G’s to a little over 900G’s. At these high deceleration loads you want the least amount of mass potentially moving. The SD card and socket have very low mass. Placement of armor around them only increases the potential of damage. Placement of electrical tape on the SD card and socket increases the survivability. Fins and nosecones are areas of high survivability.
That thermal paste layer is WAAY too thick to transfer heat to the aluminium block. It's made to brige tiny gaps between heatsinks and chips, not millimeters.
Using the DJI goggles is a great idea Imagine being able to watch the footage live as you shoot the rocket up and record simultaneously on the device itself and the goggles at the same time and if you add more equipment to it you could stream it as well live 💡
You are probably the only person who is interested in the o3 air unit for recording and not the video transmission. That's why it needs goggles by default.
Some days later to report: yeah, doing the gopro desiccation it the "easiest" most efficient method. I even discovered that space X has a similar approach and in the past also used GoPros (not sure if they still use)
Hell, why not 2 fans!? One pushing and one pulling. I know weight matters but lose that brick or aluminum for a fan and a proper heat sync with ptm7950 and I feel that would yield much better results. I ain't no rocket scientist tho.
@@damagecase13 Yeah a heatsink is just something to dump heat into I do believe they go over why a Finstack wouldn't work/why ot wouldn't be practical. In an enclosed rocket there's not much air to go around to cool it.
I loved the down the side view of the rocket @1:23 into your video. I've been studying fly-away-rail-guide impacts with fins for the past year. Video has been my main source of information until recently, when I developed an 18mm wide 1000Hz data recorder for the fly-away-rail-guide for hard data.
Any reason you didn't use small heatsinks (like the ones used for VRAM) on the SOC/CPUs? You might've been able to save a fair bit of weight, if that's relevant.
Heat dissipation wont be good after being smothered in epoxy, a block of aluminium will give more thermal mass for the size. Metal to air thermal transfer efficiency was not the target here 🙂
You know, you could have just use a small high quality mirror outside of the rocket so that you wouldn't have to deal with all that. Secure the gopro in the rocket, mount a mirror out of the rocket and with a small opening and you're done. No seriously I'm just curious, have you ever considered that?
Thermal paste is basically made of silicone oil as a liquid base and various additives like metal oxides as a thermal conducting agent. And for your use there is a stuff called "liquid thermal pads" which would be more suitable for this kind of applications.
Never thought of that trick! Joey B: “Yeah, I’ll have one of these as well.” Cashier: “Ooh exciting night ahead, huh?!” Joey B: “Oh yeah, this is going on my meat... Rocket nose cone for a TH-cam video.” Cashier: 😮
Could mirrors work? As in same camera module inside, and a mirror that is sticking out? Maybe it's easier to assemble and it could probably be set up in a way where you can reuse the cameras
I love it when I see someone else also bought the absolute cheapest version of the tool I want on amazon. More than once in a video is just the cherry on top
It's amazing to see the camera have increasing current usage as it heats up. I think it shows the concept of how components use more current the hotter they get, which i think is tied to how conductors have more resistance the hotter it get.
Joe, silicone thermal conductive glue is made for this. It's thermal paste but hardens like RTV silicone. No goop leakage issues, no epoxy mess, great vibration tolerance, and it's dirt cheap. Other comments have suggested wax thermal mass. Mix melted wax with diatomaceous earth or fumed silica to make paste thicker than peanut butter. A phase change from solid to non-flowing paste is much lighter than metal for equal heat capacity. The wax does expand slightly on melting; reusable pads would need a bag similar to an ice pack. For this application just buttering the board with thickened wax would be sufficient, though I'd still recommend gluing the buttons.
Super cool to see you fixing these kinds of issue, cuz a lot of hobbyists are probably in the same boat as far as being dissatisfied with the runtime of the GoPros Because you're going to be exoatmospheric for a little while during the space shot, have you considered trying an evaporative/sublimation cooler? The hardware would be able to dissipate a ridiculous amount of heat pretty quickly - around 2kJ/g if my math is right
I worked on cameras for the Artemis missions. The cameras mounted on the solar arrays are GoPro Hero 4 Blacks that have been ruggedized and have new lenses.
15:00 Yes, mineral oil or silicon oil is used in these. Mineral oil you can normally get of with acetone, silicon oil is a totally different beast since it will not dissolve in acetone. So anything that contain silicon in any way keep far away from if you want to use any glues on or around it. There are solvets that would dissolve it but little slower and they could be expensive so instead just avoid silicon in any way possible.
Have you ever thought about putting the camera completely inside and pointing it towards a hole, and place a 45deg mirror on the outside facing downwards?
2:42 - Many plastic cases are ultrasonically welded If done right no chance of splitting it apart again. Dremel 100% the right tool. 10:30 - Normal thermal paste needs compression to work, you could be doing more harm then good. You need to use a special paste like K5 Pro wich is made to bridge gaps!
Man the last video was the first one I watched and I just want to say ... If this is no effort in November then I shudder to think of the magnitude of effort that must go into a video in the remaining 11 months.
That could work, but it doesn’t fix the ultimate thermal mass issue. The cameras are sealed inside a tube, there’s no air going in or out. That air will eventually heat up, so the problem remains. That could achieve a better weight:thermal mass ratio though, as the air is already in there.
Drill holes into the auminum, fill with water and plug. Water is just OP when it comes to thermals. 4.6 times the specific heat capacity of alumnium. it even beats it in volumetric heat capacity by a factor of 1.7
I wonder if using prisms can be a solution for cameras. The camera is inside the tube, and only the prism sticks out and redirects the view of a camera. Maybe it can be done even with off-the-shelf prisms, or maybe there is a way to make custom prisms at home.
I suggest you to use radiator like designed aluminum block that has ridges and grooves it helps a lot in dissipating the heat well and it reduces the weight that is to be put on a rocket (Note that there is an optimum quantity of thermal paste that must be used for the best results)
Could the cameras be made reusable by epoxying them onto mountings brackets that are then screwed into the fuselage, or would that be impractical/too weak?
I FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT THIS: putting a mirror on the outside of a rocket IS another option, but it ends up cutting into the camera's field of view really hard, so I'm not a fan. To get the same FOV as having the sensor outside, you'd need a larger mirror which would add to overall drag more than the sensor itself. Anyway - lots of ways to solve the camera problem!
I suppose a curved mirror and some fancy optics could make the mirror option work, but this seems easier!
You could probably tweak with lenses on a periscope.
why dont you toss a cheep heatsync on that plate instead of the aluminum block? I would think with the correct heat sync it would run indefently
Hi
Mirrors.. Trying mirrors. Periscope, microscope, cameras.. They work 🥸🧐
oh THATS why its the meat rocket
He said "best behavior" right? 😂
@@matthewellisor5835 *stretches condom over nose cone*
"Riiiiiight?"
He shows exactly why we need to be on out best behavior!
@@matthewellisor5835 He said "when we watch it". We can behave like troglodytes in *these* comments!
@@jlight7346 and the name...
I spent some time trying to come up with a clever way to have a camera on my land speed car that doesn't add much drag. I was considering drilling a lens-sized hole in the side and sticking half of a 360 camera up against the inside. So I'd have a 180° lens just slightly poking out the side, which would give me front, back, and side views with basically no drag penalty.
yall should team up and make the land speed car rocket powered
I liked your solution on the top of the fin. I wonder if you could use the 360 degree cameras in little fins like that in other places. I don't know the convergence point of the two 180 degree lenses, but presumably it's at least a few inches, so you could have a pretty good streamlined fin hidden inside the convergence zone that the camera wouldn't see. It would add a few weird little fins to the car, but probably wouldn't have a terrible drag penalty on something that size.
To me that would be the obvious solution here too. Stick one lens out one side, the other lens out the other and stabilise the image in edit. That would solve the roll issue he was having too.
FORESHADOWING
Project Binky and BPS Space ... where will Matt show up next? Great idea, btw.
The go pro case is amlost certainly ultrasonically welded together into a single piece of plasic.
Was thinking the same
yeah just like these nuts
@@penguiin12Nice.
@@penguiin12 lol
I'm not sure Joe is going to get a GoPro sponsorship after showing how janky the physical construction is.
JoeyB didn't forgor heat shrink, i'm so proud
Thermal paste is designed to be applied very thin to fill in the microscopic surfaces in the materials, it isn't actually that good at conducting heat. Covering things like caps and resistors will just make them hotter as you're containing all the heat around them with all that paste.
Yes thermal paste isn't a very good thermal conductor. Heat transfer is a complicated thing and it's hard to know if it hurt or helped without doing some calculations. If I remember my heat transfer equations correctly, the ideal size for wire insulation for cooling is k/h, but obtaining the value of h is not trivial. Thermal pads are frequently used to cover gaps on the order of maybe 1-2 mm to a heatsink in electronics
It's still better than air lol.
I was thinking K5 PRO would be a better fit here, since it's intended as a thermal pad replacement.
Obviously, either way, his application worked out just fine for him.
@DaimyoD0 if I was going to all this effort to make a 4k cam I could move between rockets/my future projects I would use a metal housing filled with a dielectric liquid oil to exchange heat to the case and then heat sink the case.
I would mount the lense flat on one of the sides of the metal case, mount the case completely internal to the rocket and use an angled mirror like a periscope on the outside to get the angle/shot I want.
I do get that weight and size are a factor, but that's what I'd do.
@@han5vk It's better than air conduction. I'm not an engineer, but I'd guess it's substantially worse than air convection.
This video came out LITERALLY as I was researching onboard cameras for my model rocket project. Thank you!!!
while you do that im going get these small cams in ur backyard to watch you make that rocket project.. thank u imagine all the other things people can do and place them
An ultrasonic knife would make cutting open the case much easier. It doesn't wear out like a wheel, it doesn't spray particles around, and the knife can't cut most of the things inside (while the dremel will cut through anything).
or some xylene, which will make the plastic brittle and fall apart
There are plastics inside you want to keep, like the ribbon cable locks so that will ruin the whole thing @@T-Ball-o
using gopro is overall bad idea
@@T-Ball-o NO, do not fuck with xylene. Are you mad ?
Are you hoping that people will follow your advice and you're chuckling about it because you know what Xylene is and the hazards it brings forth ?
Or are you dumb ?
Ultrasonic knives are absolutely awesome... and annoyingly expensive. I so want one, but I don't want to spend like $500 to $1,000 for one that isn't crap. Arg.
"you cannot daisy chain them together, that does not work" I haven't dealt with these specific Flat Flex Cables but I have put a truely frustrating number of hours and dollars into getting longer cables for an Arducam. The key thing I eventually understood was causing a great deal of my frustration is that FFCs have a special property, the chirality of the cable is determined by whether the ends of the cable are on the same side or opposite sides. Critically, the two arducam products I bought expect to have a crossover cable, where the connectors are facing opposite directions, so the pins are reversed between a pair of sockets that have the same Up (nothing can be consistent). This adds a multiplication step. Crossover connectors are times -1, an even number of them daisychained balanced out into a straight-thru cable, while an odd number is the same as a longer crossover cable. Straight-thru cables are times 1, they do not modify the situation no matter how many you have. But you may require the situation to be modified.
So you can do extensions with 3 crossovers or 1 crossover and 1 straight-thru, but one straight-thru on it's own or two crossovers will cause a chip on the sensor board to get very hot, potentially destroying it, I got lucky. This is specifically in regards to the SD extender, if you can find a combination of extenders that are built different, you may be able to daisychain them.
By all appearances the control board to sensor FFC is straight-thru, the lever arm style sockets have the cable's contacts facing the PCB and the lever pushes the cable down into the socket's contacts; while the sockets with a black U shaped piece you push in have the cable's contacts facing away from the PCB and the U piece is a wedge that shoves the cable up into the socket's contacts.
btw, based on how your screwdriver isn't mating well with those two phillips screws, I suspect they're actually JIS #0 or #1, which have a shorter tip and a steeper angle on the flutes. When you put a similar size phillips bit into a JIS, the flutes only barely touch at the inside corners of the cross, making them strip easily. Again with the laptops, HP used JIS for a minute in the early 2010s, and Lenovo does whatever they want, as hard as they want, at all times. This just means Gopro was beating you at the weird use of a cross-head screw game.
I have wasted hours of time in integration hell chasing exactly this problem, hopefully it his comment save someone else the same frustration
I appreciate reading these details ... even if I never have to use the information.
To me, this is well-written for someone engineers/repairs things.
Thermal paste like that is not designed for those thicknesses. Part of the reason the stock unit used thermal pads. You're looking for thermal putty like K5 Pro. Also, thermal mass buys you time but little actual dissipation. Remember, a heat sink works to dissipate more heat than the equivalent non-ribbed mass of the same material thanks to not only surface area for airflow but also radiation. Lastly, spreading your thermal paste onto non-heat-generating components might induce a failure by conducting heat to to those SMD components which wouldn't normally be heated (though, probably not a serious concern).
Seeing people slather thermal paste makes me cringe. I bet these people who load their shit up would probably freak out that I don't use enough but yet I never have heating issues and get excellent performance.
I'd use a thermal pad because they are designed for more thickness
I think part of the reason he didn’t use a heatsink is because the options are put it inside the rocket or put it outside the rocket. Inside the rocket doesn’t do much good because it’s a tight, sealed space with no airflow. Outside a rocket would be very difficult to do without impacting aerodynamics.
Adding thermal mass might not be the best solution, but it is a good enough solution, and knowing when to call something good enough and walk away is really important in engineering.
I was thinking about phase change myself, but I've never used it and don't know how much it migrates when hot and vertical.
@@Grandwigg it stays pretty viscous even when liquid, but it doesn't conform to weird uneven surfaces like the PCBs here
Thanks! It's so exciting to be able to come along with you on your journey. I can't afford much, but these last two "No effort November" videos have just been so good. I spent 27 minutes listening to your excitement about cameras and epoxy....and i feel like i totally understand the learning journey you took just to ensure we all get to watch what happens (plus data, ya ya). Please continue the style of no effort November. I wish I could afford more but sending a very small token just to say thanks, and you're awesome, and i look forward to your videos as much as a starship launch.
you should use wax to absorb heat since it needs a lot of energy to melt. wax was also used on the electronics on the lunar rover.
I agree, since metal actually doesn't have very good thermal mass, you would want to use something a lot more "dense" like wax or mineral oil. Another idea would be to use a heat sink and use the thermal mass of the air in the body tube (more weight efficient), however I have no idea how effective that would be in practice.
A group called HyEnD actually does this! I think it works pretty well for them and their rockets, but the aluminum is a lot simpler imo :)
@@BPSspace If you have the mass budget, you can just hot glue a "floor" to one end of the camera section and pour molten paraffin in to make the camera section solid with a bit less mass imbalance. Sealing the other end is optional, but probably worth it to keep the mass in a predictable place once it starts melting and to keep the liquid available as a thermal conductor.
edit: my experience is not with rockets, and the overheating electronics have never been cameras for me. But a plug/bath of paraffin is a useful hack for a lot of projects with sealed electronics packages where you are too lazy to plumb proper cooling.
Ooh, and it's electrically insulating. Next time I have to pot something that's a real consideration.
EGO actually uses this method on their power tool batteries to extend their runtime. The battery is set to go into thermal shutdown a few degrees higher than the wax melting point, so you get the entire phase change period of the wax for "free".
If this is 'No Effort November' then I can't wait until 'Diligent December'!
Is the No Effort November a nod to Technology Connections youtube channel?
honestly, companys should sell naked versions of their products more often. I understand why they don't; certification, import rules, and a long, long list of other problems come to mind. but damm would it be useful and interesting.
I wonder if those rules could be "navigated" by selling "spare parts", preferably in a subassembly form...
@@owensparks5013-- Just selling spare parts in the first place would be fantastic.
@@owensparks5013they'll have to sell spare parts soon enough ;)
@@owensparks5013yes a company called framework sells their laptop this way, you can buy a complete laptop or a bare bone laptop and buy l
Displays, motherboard, io battery etc and assemble it yourself... Many people just bought a motherboard and made a compact/mini pc with it.
I don't think this would be a good idea for certain products 😏
15:13 - I believe the base in most thermal compounds is a silicone oil. This is per derbauer who works at thermal grizzly, a thermal paste manufacturer for PC components.
I'll 2nd that, it's what I've heard too. I think those little single-use packets of white thermal compound U get with CPUs are sometimes even labelled: "Silicone thermal grease", silicone oil being the base ingredient.
Silicone oil is also used as a... Um... "Nosecone" high quality lubricant that doesn't slowly dry out during intended use (unlike more commonly used water-based lubricants). Tho it should NOT be used if your nosecone is also made of silicone rubber, since they will cross-react & slowly degrade the silicone rubber.
Just incase anyone wanted to know where to easily get off-the-shelf silicone oil 😁
Honestly you should totally get the goggles for the O3 unit as using those units in the future will be cheaper than continuously buying GoPros. Also, seeing the video feed live through the goggles is an amazing experience.
And older dji used Goggles are pretty cheap right now
You can get HDMI out to a screen from the googles too, albeit probably delayed. I'd use a smallhd or some other pro camera monitor for it
O3 quality is nowhere near a proper action camera however. The point is to get the best quality video you can in a small package.
Joe, you're quickly becoming my favorite channel. Perfect mix of tech, fab, action, and "humor". I didnt realize until I saw you posted a new vid and it made me really happy.
have you considered using a normal camera inside the rocket, pointing at a mirror protruding frome the airframe, like some kind of periscope? and if yes, what has motivated your choice?
Just like my phone
the pinned comment explains this, but in case you didn't see it: the FOV of the footage will be limited to the size of the mirror, so if you have a 2 inch size mirror (which will be about the same amount sticking outside the airframe with his setup), your fov will be severely limited compared to the wide(r) angle lens the GoPro gives you with the same amount of drag.
The mirrors will add a good amount of weight and if you want to use plastic versions they are mostly expensive for a good quality.
@@Philly_Willy Could use a curved mirror surface and correct it in post.
@@Philly_Willy convex mirrors have higher FOV. And the curvature effects can be removed in editing.
u have no idea how much this video helped me, i was trying to build a camera into glasses so i can film stuff on the street incognito and i gave up 2 days ago because i ripped the ribbon cable and i was already at my 2nd gopro hero 12 ruined for this project and i could not afford going further like this, but your video helped me finish this, so i swear, one day, i'll get back to you if this project finally works, thanks again man, you have no idea how much this helped me
11:26 Made me realize just how close "Mic Hole" is to "My Goal". Also the settings in the QR code able to be scanned in the extra barebones model is so cool, I wish it was added to other brands as well, like DJI and Insta360.
For increasing runtime, it may be worth investigating phase change materials, which can absorb heat by melting a solid material. I've seen this used in a firefighting thermal camera to protect the insides from external heat. No idea on sources/types I'm afraid!
I believe LinusTechTips store sells phase change pads for cpus.
you may want to look into thermally conductive epoxy/resin, it is used in potting IC chips
Yeah this. There's even the potting epoxies meant for potting electronics for enhanced environmental resistance and many of those are thermally conductive.
A thin film of non-electrically-conductive material followed by a conductive epoxy with higher heat conduction would probably be ideal. That said, the thermal paste is a really simple solution. There's a LOT of value in just doing something that works, even if it is a wild abuse of thermal paste.
Agreed an its not even that hard to self make a thermal epoxy, look for the channel Tech Ingredients and his adventure into making a thermal epoxy that outperformed some of the best thermal pastes with Linus Tech Tips
Cotronics in Long Island is probably the OG here.
I've been using their products since the early '70's
We use a thermally conductive electrical insultor compound for hardening brushless motors in combat robotics, would definitely be suitable here.
Joe, thank you so much for featuring us! 🚀 Rocket onboard footage is always thrilling and inspiring, and we're amazed to see our cameras as part of this incredible journey. It's exciting to witness our technology in action during a rocket launch. Huge thanks again for showcasing our cameras-we truly appreciate it!
What pdb boards would you recommed I use for a runcam split 4 in this configuration?
Always good to practice safe nosecone practices. Better for all. Nice explanation on the GoPro deconstruction.
I'd scrolled past this comment before I got to the nosecone bit of the vid. oooh that's what you meant 😂
Dude, these have gotten good, like I’m not watching bc rockets, I’m watching bc of the engineering jokes and that it validates the wacky design decisions we all make. Keep it up!
I have never clicked faster
Same
So true
fr
That is s o f r of you to say
You are not safe, this is restricted airspace bud
I’ve been watching you since the beginning, and you are an inspiration. You’ve come so far as a scientist and an engineer, please never give up. You’ve got this, just keep going!
Now *this* is rocket surgery.
You beat me to it.
Really enjoy your videos. Always so impressive to see how much you've learned since the last video and how willingly you share your newfound skill and the problems you experienced along the way. You're a good guy. We are fortunate to have you.
In an unprecedented event, joe garnered 4 billion likes on X (formerly Twitter) resulting in this masterpiece being made publicly available.
Hi
Seeing the amount of paste applied on the livestream was surprising lol.
Joey B: "This stuff sure is expensive" *Squirts the rest of tube*
Let's be honest. You don't want a GoPro sponsorship; you want a FoxConn sponsorship. You want all of the GoPro parts in a custom frame that's specific to your needs. That's no what GoPro does, that's what Foxconn does.
5:20 I believe that tape is more likely to be RF shielding to either block signals exiting the camera, or possibly entering.
To cut the edges, you can make a jig to keep the Dremel a certain distance from the internals. A bit like (exactly like) a routing template.
Him holding the dremel in his hands as a vise makes me cry.
18:50 "I'm unwilling to consider that as an option." And all of us applaud you for that!
new bps video = day can‘t be better
At some point I hope GoPro just contacts you and does a sponsorship where they give you 10 bare chassis to have fun with😂
7:45 we used similar cables to these with Ardupilot/PX4 flight controller. They failed to log about 9/10 times, perhaps they use i2c instead of the full SD bus.
The assembly shots inside of the garage are sooo cool. The lighting and angles are SO slick and professional. Another great video
The first thermal paste application is not really necessary imo. The factory thermal paste should be 'adequate' under most circumstances, even if you consider the extremes as in your case, THAT much thermal paste does more harm than good. Contrary to it's name thermal paste is not really a good conductor of heat, now don't get me wrong, it's certainly better than air, but it isn't very good. It's job is only to fill in the microscopic air bubbles between heatsink surface and processor package. Usually you want as thin layer of it as possible, so that heat can travel most efficiently. If you put a thick layer of thermal paste, it may actually act as insulator. Instead what I'd recommend is that you repaste the processor (if really necessary, probably run some tests to see if there is any difference) and you should be good.
On a side note, I have a question.... Can't you use some kind of air diverter to provide some airflow to the camera. I mean if there is a system which has lower drag losses as compared to adding extra mass to the rocket, it will be better.
Edit:- Maybe you could machine the aluminium in shape of heat sink and add a small fan inside? (I mean 2 flat surfaces for the cameras, and instead of solid aluminium it will have fin like structure in between). It will also provide some airflow for other components on the board. I had seen a video on Linus Tech Tips regarding a piezoelectric fan which has high static pressure, maybe that could be used.
Edit 2:- you should also clean the surface of aluminium with something like IPA or Acetone so that you have a clean surface for thermal paste to adhere to. And one more thing I forgot to mention, the 'spreading' of thermal paste may introduce some bubbles which may not be fully removed, so it would be better to use zig zag lines of paste and apply pressure to the aluminium block. This will squish it together and reduce the possibility of air bubbles and also result in thinner layer of thermal paste.
You should watch the 360 drone video from corridor crew. they show off a camera that allows you to put a lens on on either side of an object to create a seamless 360 video. this would mean with only two lenses you could choose whatever framing you wanted and stabilize for rotation.
It might not be a perfect solution, but I feel like 360 videos would be sick
BPS Space always inspires me
No effort november just means that this becomes the rocket nerd’s favourite channel
I was shouting at the screen "DJI video system" until you mentioned it. Had no idea you cannot set it up without goggles, mind boggling!
it's still funny because a set of goggles is way cheaper than what he spends on three gopros
@@Mister_Brown sounds like a matter of principle, which I can understand regarding DJI
Because it's, like, meant to be used with goggles...
@@31pas0 this is called vendor lock-in
Even as someone who isn’t into cinematography I can immediately how much better then GoPro it’s great to see the extra effort for amazing footage
Go pro seriously need to think about it and redesign a modular “pleaceable” configurable camera to fit inside this, submarines, rc’s, helmets or anywhere you need, it would make them provide solutions in to a market never thought yet. Meanwhile it happens you can try the new runcam thumb 4K, it seems have great features and quality and affordable price. Your heat aluminum dissipating block could be upgraded by making a CNC cutting diamond or strip pattern, it can add more dissipate surface to the block
I've had good results with the thumb 4K, but it's only 4K/60, so it can't compete with the 120 fps of the GoPro.
Much less expensive though.
I second the runcam suggestion! Pretty good quality for such a cheap/light/small camera. You can make it even smaller/lighter by stripping the case, and it also has the QR settings system that the GoPro has
I know that sharkbyte has a digital camra like the DJI one
I dont think its FHD but its super small and im pretty sure as long as you get their decoder you can use it with anything
Called HDzero nowadays, but definitely not worth the camera quality. Made for low latency HD
what about a aluminium heat shield that also holds the lens in place and is mounted on the outside of the rocket? Like its inside but its flush with the rocket wall and theres a cutout so the aluminium has direct contact with the outside air. this would work as a nice heatsink and allow you to cool your camera for basically free (energy and space wise).
I was thinking the same thing, and since he is already mounting the cameras in a section of tube, making the tube the heat sink might save some weight. Having the heat sink in the air flow would make it more effective. Maybe even add a few fins. He needs to get JLC3DP as a sponsor and 3d print such a metal camera mount.
Just a little heads up: Thermal paste only does it's job properly if it is applied THIN. If you apply too much of it in a too thick manner, it will not do what it is made to do. Which is transfer the heat as good and as quick as possible onto a metal surface.
11:30 - thermal paste isn't that good of a heat conductor for filling gaps, it would be more effective to apply paste and squish a chunk of aluminium or copper to the plate that actually fits *inside* the rim or fill the space with a metal shim. EDIT - OK, seems good enough anyway.
15:09 - usually some sort of silicone oil
25:25 too late, i wont
Gotta keep that nose cone safe from space AIDS
Count me in on the use of FPV goggles for flying rockets.
I think you should try the o3. It’s the same quality video as a GoPro but much less expensive even if you got an entirely new set of goggles for every rocket it’s still cheaper. The o3 is $180 and the cheapest set of goggles from DJI is $230 180x3+230=$770, 770 is less than 900. It’s also smaller, lighter, you would be able to see live video from the rocket, you can move the camera around without needing to take the entire thing apart, and if you do need to it’s just 4 screws.
Sounds good to me too. I'm puzzled why he resists the o3 also. You can pair the goggles to each new set of o3 modules just keep adding them to the goggles. You only have to set it once and you're good. He'll only need 1 set of goggles and you can verify the settings before launch each time. You can even start recording with the same enable function. It's almost like he thinks that the goggles and o3 are an exclusive matched set of something. I don't understand the issue of having to set record settings once for each camera ONCE. Can't you start recording from the flight controller just like the Go Pro?
QR code for settings changes sounds extremely convenient! ..And an extremely interesting attack vector :) Change the resolution, fps. It looks like you might even be able to "stop" recording but unclear if thats purely a USB trigger.
Having watched the live stream, it made me giggle when you said at the start you'll get to the heat solution.... loved the stream about this teardown btw, it would be fun to see more of those
With regards to SD cards, and knowing you've lost a few of them to some harder-than-optimal landings or McYeeting camera's out of the airframe at some point during flight, have you considered adding some sort of "Black Box" type containers for your SD-cards, or by extension, for your flight data? Now that you're going higher and faster with each launch, the possibility of permanently damaging them without recovery options gets higher and higher. And by black box I mean like actual aircraft flight data recorders, with the memory units inside some container with shock absorbtion and a tough case. Since you're using SD extention cables anyway you might as well put the other end of that extender somewhere safe so that footage and flight data stay protected in case your rocket decides it want to come down as fast as it went up.
An aircraft "Black Box" is located in a known high survivability location. They are well insulated against fire, but not as armored as people think. Four of my rockets have survived impacts with the ground without loss of data or connection to the SD card. These impacts ranged from 600G’s to a little over 900G’s. At these high deceleration loads you want the least amount of mass potentially moving. The SD card and socket have very low mass. Placement of armor around them only increases the potential of damage. Placement of electrical tape on the SD card and socket increases the survivability. Fins and nosecones are areas of high survivability.
Thanks for posting these videos. Awesome work m8.
That thermal paste layer is WAAY too thick to transfer heat to the aluminium block. It's made to brige tiny gaps between heatsinks and chips, not millimeters.
I originally thought the same thing but hey, it seems to work ok so it can't be all bad.
The stock design also has thermal paste
Using the DJI goggles is a great idea
Imagine being able to watch the footage live as you shoot the rocket up and record simultaneously on the device itself and the goggles at the same time and if you add more equipment to it you could stream it as well live 💡
You are probably the only person who is interested in the o3 air unit for recording and not the video transmission. That's why it needs goggles by default.
As an engineer, the title "Smallest 4K 120fps Camera Possible" feels like a challenge.
Some days later to report: yeah, doing the gopro desiccation it the "easiest" most efficient method. I even discovered that space X has a similar approach and in the past also used GoPros (not sure if they still use)
11:50 why don't you just use a heatsink?
That _is_ the heatsink
A proper heat sink though. With fins cut into it etc.
Pair that with some PTM7950 and I bet he'd see some drastic changes.
Hell, why not 2 fans!? One pushing and one pulling. I know weight matters but lose that brick or aluminum for a fan and a proper heat sync with ptm7950 and I feel that would yield much better results. I ain't no rocket scientist tho.
@@damagecase13 Yeah a heatsink is just something to dump heat into
I do believe they go over why a Finstack wouldn't work/why ot wouldn't be practical. In an enclosed rocket there's not much air to go around to cool it.
@VaalkinTheOnly you're right. I should be more specific. A FINNED ALUMINUM heat sink
bro has so much experience, he has examples for everything.
16:36 he looks exactly like Elon musk here
Facts
small elon make small rockets
I loved the down the side view of the rocket @1:23 into your video. I've been studying fly-away-rail-guide impacts with fins for the past year. Video has been my main source of information until recently, when I developed an 18mm wide 1000Hz data recorder for the fly-away-rail-guide for hard data.
Any reason you didn't use small heatsinks (like the ones used for VRAM) on the SOC/CPUs?
You might've been able to save a fair bit of weight, if that's relevant.
Heat dissipation wont be good after being smothered in epoxy, a block of aluminium will give more thermal mass for the size. Metal to air thermal transfer efficiency was not the target here 🙂
I like the irony of a no effort november video about the recording and telemetry of a mach 3 rocket
You know, you could have just use a small high quality mirror outside of the rocket so that you wouldn't have to deal with all that. Secure the gopro in the rocket, mount a mirror out of the rocket and with a small opening and you're done. No seriously I'm just curious, have you ever considered that?
Because of the FOV
Thermal paste is basically made of silicone oil as a liquid base and various additives like metal oxides as a thermal conducting agent.
And for your use there is a stuff called "liquid thermal pads" which would be more suitable for this kind of applications.
You sure you wanna call it "meat rocket"?
The narration in this video is super chill. I like it.
25:18 ROCKET CONDOM
Never thought of that trick!
Joey B: “Yeah, I’ll have one of these as well.”
Cashier: “Ooh exciting night ahead, huh?!”
Joey B: “Oh yeah, this is going on my meat... Rocket nose cone for a TH-cam video.”
Cashier: 😮
Glad its not just me
Could mirrors work? As in same camera module inside, and a mirror that is sticking out? Maybe it's easier to assemble and it could probably be set up in a way where you can reuse the cameras
iPhone 16 pro😊 is 4K 120fps
I was about to say
I really enjoyed watching you modify the cameras on the livestream. it was a great chill hangout.
I love it when I see someone else also bought the absolute cheapest version of the tool I want on amazon. More than once in a video is just the cherry on top
It's amazing to see the camera have increasing current usage as it heats up. I think it shows the concept of how components use more current the hotter they get, which i think is tied to how conductors have more resistance the hotter it get.
Joe, silicone thermal conductive glue is made for this. It's thermal paste but hardens like RTV silicone. No goop leakage issues, no epoxy mess, great vibration tolerance, and it's dirt cheap.
Other comments have suggested wax thermal mass. Mix melted wax with diatomaceous earth or fumed silica to make paste thicker than peanut butter. A phase change from solid to non-flowing paste is much lighter than metal for equal heat capacity. The wax does expand slightly on melting; reusable pads would need a bag similar to an ice pack. For this application just buttering the board with thickened wax would be sufficient, though I'd still recommend gluing the buttons.
Might want to look into a borescope camera.
Super cool to see you fixing these kinds of issue, cuz a lot of hobbyists are probably in the same boat as far as being dissatisfied with the runtime of the GoPros
Because you're going to be exoatmospheric for a little while during the space shot, have you considered trying an evaporative/sublimation cooler? The hardware would be able to dissipate a ridiculous amount of heat pretty quickly - around 2kJ/g if my math is right
I worked on cameras for the Artemis missions. The cameras mounted on the solar arrays are GoPro Hero 4 Blacks that have been ruggedized and have new lenses.
15:00 Yes, mineral oil or silicon oil is used in these. Mineral oil you can normally get of with acetone, silicon oil is a totally different beast since it will not dissolve in acetone. So anything that contain silicon in any way keep far away from if you want to use any glues on or around it. There are solvets that would dissolve it but little slower and they could be expensive so instead just avoid silicon in any way possible.
Have you ever thought about putting the camera completely inside and pointing it towards a hole, and place a 45deg mirror on the outside facing downwards?
2:42 - Many plastic cases are ultrasonically welded
If done right no chance of splitting it apart again. Dremel 100% the right tool.
10:30 - Normal thermal paste needs compression to work, you could be doing more harm then good. You need to use a special paste like K5 Pro wich is made to bridge gaps!
That is actually insane, great job!
Love all the closeup shots you got over the gopro deconstruction
Found the shorts as a suggestion and so I decided to come to the main watch the last and sub. Totally worth it.
JoeyB this channel is a rocketship
QR code configuration is so good. Even better when the codes can be printed to flash cards.
Man the last video was the first one I watched and I just want to say ...
If this is no effort in November then I shudder to think of the magnitude of effort that must go into a video in the remaining 11 months.
You can get some really tiny fans - may be smaller/lighter than a big heatsink
That could work, but it doesn’t fix the ultimate thermal mass issue. The cameras are sealed inside a tube, there’s no air going in or out. That air will eventually heat up, so the problem remains.
That could achieve a better weight:thermal mass ratio though, as the air is already in there.
Drill holes into the auminum, fill with water and plug. Water is just OP when it comes to thermals. 4.6 times the specific heat capacity of alumnium. it even beats it in volumetric heat capacity by a factor of 1.7
I wonder if using prisms can be a solution for cameras. The camera is inside the tube, and only the prism sticks out and redirects the view of a camera.
Maybe it can be done even with off-the-shelf prisms, or maybe there is a way to make custom prisms at home.
I suggest you to use radiator like designed aluminum block that has ridges and grooves it helps a lot in dissipating the heat well and it reduces the weight that is to be put on a rocket (Note that there is an optimum quantity of thermal paste that must be used for the best results)
Seeing you mentioned the issue with using epoxy and thermal paste, have you looked into using thermal glue? This seems the perfect usecase for it?
The vibes here are immaculate
The gopro QR feature is incredible. WOW!
the QR code for camera settings is a super cool detail! one of those things that seems like it just makes your life easier.
Could the cameras be made reusable by epoxying them onto mountings brackets that are then screwed into the fuselage, or would that be impractical/too weak?
Ughhh, that heat shrinking action was so satisfying!