“Rules are made for perfect situations; it’s for the Captain to make them fit the imperfect ones.” Captain James Kirk. This Captain lived that sentiment.
It’s a TV scriptwriter’s take on a WW2 quote from an RAF fighter pilot, Sir Douglas Bader…. "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
Even in my police department, our supervisors had a conversation with us when we started getting 1 hour+ ambulance delays in a MAJOR city. The conversation went: "I can't tell you to transport a seriously injured child or any other individual in your patrol car, but you do what you need to do". First responders didn't swear an oath to follow dumb ass policies, we swore an oath to preserve life.
My father-in-law benefited from this sort of action. He slipped and fell last winter in his driveway, breaking his femur. A city worker saw it and called it in, city police showed up for the 911, but EMS was going to be 40 minutes because of the volume of calls they had on due to the crap conditions. Cop made the decision to get him in the car and take him to the hospital, which was contrary to normal procedures, but he received kudos for doing the right thing.
@@agirlnamedmichael1670 seems pretty relevant when so many pigs go out of their way to violate the rights of people, gun down individuals for no reason, or otherwise betray the badge and the community they serve.
My grandaddy was a firefighter. It was against protocol back then for them to share their air supply when doing rescues, but he could never stand to see a child suffer and shared his air supply often. He ended up with emphysema from the repeated smoke inhalations but never regretted it for a second, because in many cases, sharing his air meant the difference between a child making it out alive. No one should be penalized for giving their all to ease the suffering of another person.
This is a really tough one. If he didn't share his air, the child could have died or had live long illness. But if he did, there is a chance he could have lost consciousness and got himself and the child killed. I am happy he was able to save him and is alive, good in him.
@@pianissimo7121 he probably knew how to do the sharing business of oxygen, which is not easy and he probably has the emphysema because even small particles can cause emphysema what happens is the lungs get damaged over a period of time any firefighter can get that by the way, not just one that is sharing his oxygen to save person’s life. What your granddad or dad did I can’t remember if it’s granddad or dad at this point it’s too early in the morning was the right thing to do, but that’s the problem though isn’t it sometimes you do the right thing and you get punished for it and it’s wrong Just plain wrong.
100% agree, for those of you who don’t work in EMS, we have a rule called the “Golden Hour” meaning from time of injury you have one hour to the victim to surgical correction, otherwise their chance of making a good recovery droops off drastically. 24 minutes waiting for the ambulance, plus the fire engine’s own response time to the scene they were already halfway through the Golden Hour, that captain made the exact correct choice, thinking of the patient care first. Wish I could shake his hand too.
Every minute truly matters. If the team that responded to my roommate’s panicked 5am call had waited for the old, broken elevator to get to our floor… I don’t know what would have happened. Instead, one of the paramedics decided to just carry me down the stairs. I later found out he was alarmed at how underweight I was. He should not have been able to carry me so easily… In that lizard-brain state, I was attempting to bite anyone who touched me.
Most of the views we hard are from field personally lets look at this from a leadership stand point. So are you calling 2nd degree burns surgical correctable? The ambulance was disregarded when near by? How would this story read if that Childs airway would have swelled shut and died while being transported on a illegal unsanctioned vehicle? Did this action break any laws? Could the Captain and the fire department be held criminally liable? Could the captain be subjected to a medical review and possible lose his license, better yet could the fire department be fined and or suspended by the state medical board? I think the fire department had no choice but to act in the manner for which it did. So why does it take EMS so long to arrive? obviously I don't have that answer, but why is that EMS makes 80 % of the runs and we are not will to an ambulance in every fire station and then cry when response time are so long? I remember when fire departments did not even want to go to medical calls and they now have taken the moral high ground.
Don't forget the time wasted by people not calling 911 right away, often waiting for someone else to do it. The clock starts ticking at the moment of the incident, not when the call goes through, and he had no way of knowing how long people had stood around with their thumb up their behind before deciding to call. This guy should be getting a medal, not a reprimand.
Has anyone pointed out how much pain and fear the 2 year old must have been in? Waiting 20 minutes must have been EXCRUCIATING for everyone who was there! That he had he discipline to wait THAT long in order to follow protocol is in itself a testament to his self discipline! Bravo, Captain.
That ought to have been seen as evidence of his respect for, and willingness to adhere to the rules. It's absolutely sickening that the higher-ups within his agency didn't defend him. Shame on those cowards. Bravo to the hero fire fighter, as well as to anyone within his agency that had the courage and decency to go to bat for him.
And at only 2, this was probably literally the worst thing that poor kid has ever experienced. The Absolute Worst Day of their Entire Life so far. Every minute probably felt like hours.
I've had 2nd degree burns twice in my lifetime. The superficial nerve fibers flash fry, so initially the pain isn't so bad...no where near what it'll be after 20 minutes. The chief was watching the child suffer more and more, knowing it wasn't going to get better until he reached an ER. Knowing the risk of infection was going up by the minute.
As a retired ER nurse I applaud this man. Not only did his fatherly instincts kick in but his life saving instincts and his “it’s the right thing to do” instincts. This child was undoubtedly in pain, dehydrated, and possible airway concerns. Rules are rules for reasons, but when it comes down to lives the rules don’t ALWAYS apply. This man should be made captain somewhere.
Rules that have no flexibility are the reason for so many problems with the country. Here is just another one that does not live in the real world and was put together by people who could not think outside their own bubble. Good work Captain.
I've always loved the line: "The most well laid plan never survives the enemy." In this case you could picture the rules as the plan and the enemy as the emergency situation. You can never plan for every single possible situation or the book of rules will become so thick it's unreadable. The process of emergency life saving care should be follow the rules but when the rules fail do what is necessary to get the patient to the doctors.
Many rules are rules because somebody in a fancy suit was a dick. Many more are rules because some stuffed shirt needed to show they were still "doing something" to avoid being fired for utter worthlessness. I wish I had a way to figure out the exact percentage. I bet if I could, it would horrify us.
Policy is for guidance, not blind obedience. The fire Captain is a Captain because he has been deemed to have the experience and judgment to handle situations where policy doesn't tick off all the boxes.
@@DellikkilleD Ah yes. First responders should just stand around and watch a person die, who they would otherwise have the capacity to save just because the protocol says that's the way it has to be done. Boy, I hope you aren't in a position of power in your municipality!
@@DellikkilleDyou are an insensitive, unbelievably ignorant person for these comments. I refuse to believe you wouldn’t do the same thing placed in the same situation, and if you really let that child suffer any longer than that captain had, you truly are a heartless person. Life over protocol. Period.
@@DellikkilleD "Sorry, guys, I cannot transport your grieviously injured child which is in excruciating pain in my vehicle, it is against the rules. But I'll give you my thoughts and prayers" is NOT appropriate. My wild guess is: If he hadn't transported that child that way he would've been chastised for not doing it and sticking to the rules. Sometimes you cannot win because the one in charge are assholes.
I wonder how much he saved Oklahoma from a lawsuit that begins: the fire dept stood around and did nothing because they didn’t want to get disciplined for driving. Kudos to all Firemen and paramedics that risk their lives to help us.
Yes!!! Seriously!!! I would have been beyond furious watching idiots wait for an ambulance!! I definitely would have sued and made a huge stink over it.
@@brandondefend5442 He is probably being disciplined for breaking a State law! rightly or wrongly, Bureaucrats hate seeing people break laws even for just purposes.
@@inconnu4961The issue is that it relies on good judgement, and not dickheaded patients and family when it comes to money and debt. Relying on that, is like praying the sunrise comes 2 hours earlier. Probably the least realistic action available, even if Heaven is the only place you could actually find that possibility.
This is so dumb. He used an emergency vehicle to transport a child to receive medical care. He was trying to get the child there before the "golden hour" was up. This Captain deserves a raise and promotion..
if that were me and i lost my job over it, i wouldve said, "In all universes, and all realities, i wouldve still done the same thing and i would not regret one second of it."
@@calebnation7797 exactly as a nurse I did it a few times, arguing with doctors when I knew I was right but they were sitting on their ass. I only ever fought when I knew I was 100% correct and could back everything up but I also knew doing it I could likely lose my job or be disciplined and have it follow me my whole career
Capt can rest peacefully at night knowing he saved that child from any further, unnecessary suffering, screw every last superior who didn't stick up for him.
@@Iamthathillbilly all the ambulances were probably on toe pain calls when this call went out and the closest ambulance was across town. I have had that happen on a infant CPR, thank God we got there and it was a baby with a cough.
Just Google "Oklahoma City firefighter qualifications" the fourth bullet point on Google says the must be a Licensed EMT by the end of their probie year, so that means not only was this officer a seasoned medical provider so were multiple others on that fire rig and made a transport decision as such. If they weren't required to have an EMT level medical training and only CFR or lower I could see this reaction from the higher ups holding some water, but this is a fresh steaming pile of 💩 otherwise.
If that was my baby, I would say, "Let's load and go." My vehicle or yours. He's got lights and sirens and training. He just saved a life. Good for him. We need more people like that
He chose to save a life. He never even thought about the "rules". "Rules" never crossed his mind. He did his job and saved a life. He is a HERO. But, my guess is he doesn't look at himself as a hero. He looks at it as he was just doung what needed to be done.
But, did he, though? Or did he endanger a life by transporting a pediatric patient with non-life-threatening injuries without an adequate method of securing said pediatric patient in the vehicle?
Let's have a rational discussion. Can you find data to support the notion that a 1 - 10 minute difference makes a clinically significant difference in a patient with partial thickness burns over the lower extremities? And enough of a difference to risk bodily harm or death to the patient by transporting them without adequate age-appropriate restraints? Part of growing up is the ability to calmly and logically examine the situation and provide the best calculated approach.
@@DominickWalenczak well considering being asked by a small, hurting child "When is help coming, it hurts" or "please make the pain go away" Its tough making the logical and protocol decision as an emotional, irrational being(human)
When a man puts the life of another above his own career, knowing that he will likely be disciplined, that is the mark of a true man. Honor, integrity and courage are what set the few apart from the many.
worst thing is that if if was just some random guy in a truck driving the child to the ER nothing would have happened... due to rules the firefighters can't do shit in this situation...
@@Scott___T and thats the problem... in such situation you should never have to make the decision of keeping your job or saving someones life... Thats the problems with such regulations. As i said if a civilian would have done this there would have been no legal action but if a team of medical professionals without a transportation license does it they face repurcussions...
@@AHolst-ec7kn That Capt will sleep soundly at night knowing he made the right call. Probably shouldn't have cancelled EMS and probably should have asked for an intercept but; if they didn't show up to the scene they weren't going to meet them on the road. At this point his brothers know he did the right thing. Their respect probably means more to him than anything his COC can do.
Everyone in the comments is saying how incredible that fire captain was. They're absolutely right. But I also want to say, what an incredible speech this was
@@karolkupec2044yup, people will be like "oh they're afraid of getting sued." Ok, so then they should be changing things so people won't want to sue them. People sue when they need compensation for medical injuries, frivolous lawsuits are not a thing, no matter how much bad faith actors want them to be. Suing people is frikin expensive, and most people DO NOT have the money to sue. They only do so when they're desperate. So pretty simple, companies should stop blocking them at every turn when they try to claim compensation for legitimate incidents. Do you really think a parent who is grateful you saved their child's life will sue you? But you know who will sue you? An angry parent whose child you let die due to stupid policies such as having to wait for an ambulance when there's an emergency vehicle RIGHT THERE
This is the society we live in, a firefighter waited 24 mins for an ambulance to help a two year old with 2nd degree burns, AND HE IS BEING SCOLDED?! society can’t change if we don’t change
I feel ya Bro. I agree with this sentiment. Went to a single vehicle accident, there was a fight and bloke was killing the other guy. Only to get told off, and reprimanded for getting involved and stopping one bloke kill another because the police were still 10 mins away. It's a crazy, crazy world...
@Paul Martin inferior to what? What is your standard for a "functional" society. (not saying your wrong, but what are we comparing us too and what is the standard we are looking for?)
@@ryanmedic789 What kind of back ass fire dept doesn’t have sterile water and burn sheets on their suppression pieces? I can promise you that a major department like OKC would....
I can say as a parent (and my husband happens to be an EMT) that if my child had died or been severely disabled because they were “following protocol” instead of literally saving my kid, I would raise hell.
As an Oklahoma City resident and the son of first responders, I'm proud to have this man serving my city, and can only hope that public outcry over his unjust treatment by the higher-ups motivates them to reinstate him and clear his record of any wrongdoing.
@ChaoticAngelKitten according to reports the law that he violated was overturned and the department he works for and his unions said in a statement that his discipline did not include demotion, termination or loss of pay. It sounds like they put on a performitive show of slapping him on the wrist because they had to. The public outcry caused reforms to the rules and they emt administration admitted they were understaffed and struggling to keep up because of covid regulations causing delays to patients.
"The paramedics say they were nearby." Right. Guy probably saved the city a couple hundred thousand dollar lawsuit loss. 20 minute delay on ambulance arrival is a MAJOR failure of the system. That's three deaths long.
@@somewhereinagalaxyfarfaraway but then they should say that, ok, because of covid the system failed, so we're happy that this guy did what he did, despite it being against protocol
"Umm? Oh a child died while we were getting tacos? Ummm Covid, yeah we are such short staff right now because of it. Try suing the disease for the death of your only child." The real heroes is the firefighter and the EMS was busy doing other things, must of confused their current job with their 2nd job as an Uber driver.
He is an angel, the department could not deliver what was needed at the moment, and they are lucky to have him, so is the child, and the entire community.
I'm way late to this but this is called integrity. He made a judgement call in the "fog of war" to save a life. He will probably accept this discipline and wear it as a badge of honor.
Lol someone apparently is not aware how you came into this world. Yes you are in fact replaceable as thats how reproduction works. Now the individual in question of a situation of pending end as a unique individual being the self is not. As far as perspective of numbers by population goes, yes very replaceable by method of reproduction. Now this may sound callus and cruel, but lower age is easiest to replace. This is due to the age to fruition time is much less and pushing past 70 range have less value to society by numbers and value alone. Once you see how government and Insurance type systems operate being numbers. A few percent here and there versus printing money are negligible. The system as it is now does not value you nor I as an individual. It values the monetary contribution to cost we apply.
There is an exception to almost every rule. That’s why people in charge need to really think about each situation and how the rules apply. This wasn’t reckless or self serving or done by amateurs. This is firemen rescuing lives!
Naw rule was made to dodge responsability if kid died in the firetruck or something it opens the fire departnemnt up for a lawsuit if kid dies on a sidewalk its like oh well ambulance was busy they dont give a shit about the kids life only the money they could be sued for
My husband and I recently obtained our CPR AED in a fire department. It was explained to us that the AHA doesn’t teach or recommend mouth to mouth anymore because of blood-borne disease. The instructor clarified, “You all have to decide for yourselves, but I’m telling you right now, as a father, if a four year old needs mouth to mouth, I’m providing mouth to mouth.” We all nodded effusively, clearly deciding the same thing. First responders do what they do because they care about people, about strangers. I already think there isn’t enough protection for them when they have all the best intentions and something goes wrong. Nothing even went wrong here! He’s being punished because “the rules”, written non-specifically to cover every one of a thousand scenarios, say to wait for an ambulance, assuming a standard response time. Disgusting. If there is a petition or anything to help this man, please reply with it so I can sign it.
Me too. Honestly, those rules should be changed to be a little more specific. For example, if the ambulance isn't arriving fast enough or if other factors make the situation call for it, that a first responder/firefighter/any of those may take the actions this man did to at least increase the chances of survival.
@@Queenofgreen515it’s not because of pathogens. It’s because stopping chest compressions even for a few seconds stops the circulation. Lay people cannot do rescue breathing and continue chest compressions. Intubation is the preferred way to administer oxygen while doing chest compressions. You also have more people once responders are on scene to manage all aspects of cardiac arrest. Last but not least, not much oxygen actually gets into the body with mouth to mouth.
And to add to this point, the circulation is effectively delivering oxygen to critical organs. This will only last for a short time obviously, and the patient will need oxygen supplementation as soon as possible. But, the most effective way to help is to do chest compressions and use an AED if available
Well, at least he can sleep at night and look himself in the mirror and know that he did the right thing. There’s nothing worse than seeing a child injured or in pain and there’s nothing that can be done. He at least did what he could to ease that child’s pain.
My youngest sister is 5, turning 6 in March. If she had 2nd degree burns and we were waiting on the ambulance for that long, and this man made the call he did, truck it, I'd raise hell and clog up phone lines till he got his job back, with a significant increase in pay. I salute him.
I live with chronic pain, regularly puking, and thank God for him. That poor child was suffering that man was like enough is enough, this child needs help now. I don’t wish my pain on another, and I cannot imagine the pain that poor child was in either. And others pointed out that delayed care increases risk of infection and I have cleaned enough wounds and watched enough people deal with sepsis to cheer this man on to make sure that the child is less likely to get any of that. Children want to be firefighters because of the goodness in their heart to help people and save lives, and he’s emblematic of that virtue.
@@AlphanumericCharacters Actually that's exactly the reason . Its simply a meat industry. There is no caring or compassion for the victims. They are only seen as money in the pocket
I would totally stand behind that man 100% if I was his supervisor. He most likely saved the child's life and deserves a medal!! Thank you all first responders ❤
@@jacktattersall9457 He was probably waiting as long as possible to follow the rules so that he didn't have happen what eventually happened anyway. Until he decided "you know what, these laws fucking blow" and realized the toddler's life was more important than some old coward that made the rule.
@@thanesgames9685 ...if you were any more ignorant you'd be drooling. Depending on the area and how much of it is burned treatment can range from simply applying burn creams all the way to skin grafting surgery. Let's also not forget that this was a toddler of 2 years old. If this firefighter...a veteran of the job who most likely has exponentially more experience with burns than you do...decided that this situation was serious enough that he was going to break the "rules" and transport the victim himself then I'm willing to bet he knew what was going on. Do everyone a favor and grow a brain before sounding off again, copy?
Teddy Roosevelt has some words for this man's critics: ""It is not the critic who counts. ... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly ... who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." Outstanding job, Major. FTM PTB
One thing I learned in 36+ years of working for the Federal Government is that sometimes you have to figure out what rule to break. You try to pick the one that does the least damage if things go sideways. I applaud this Captain for doing exactly that.
As someone who has had a second-degree burn on most of my hand, I can say the pain is incredible. It was imperative to get that little one to the hospital. I'm sure the parents didn't have a problem with him transporting their child!
Late to the party, but hell, I'm 28 and I had a second degree burn on my thumb from touching something I shouldn't have while oxyfuel welding (in a welding class). And I had my gloves on. Worst pain I've been in in years. I kept it together long enough to clean up after myself when I realized I wasn't going to be able to wear my gloves without too much pain, but when I got out to my car, I just held my hand and yelled lol Was not looking forward to the 40 minute drive home. I was so grateful when, ten minutes in, I remembered the emergency aid kits my mom put together for everybody in the family for our cars. I remembered there was an emergency ice pack in there, and oh my god, it was the only thing that stopped the pain, and only while I kept it on it. All that to say... This was, in comparison, a tiny blister on my thumb, and I'm an adult who has learned to cope with pain. This poor fucking kid. That firefighter is a goddamn hero, and I bet even those in administration know that to some degree. The kid's parents sure fucking do. (And as a parting note: everybody who drives should put together a first aid kit for their vehicle. And I highly recommend emergency ice packs. You just squeeze them to activate them, and they're as cold and relieving as the standard freezer ones)
No! It was not "imperative". The child was in no danger. The Firefighter broke discipline from everyone screaming around him, and put the child in a more dangerous situation. That is not heroism, that is panic, or wanting to play the hero. that's not what was needed. It was an understandable infraction, and hopefully he gets a slap on the wrist, but the department has to make certain every firefighter hears the rule that shoving injured people into a fire truck instead of waiting for an ambulance won't lead to kudos - except, of course, from the idiots who view life through a TV screen.
@@thanesgames9685 The burn victim had second-degree burns ALL OVER HER BODY. We're not talking "oops I spilled my soup and now some of my thigh is blistering". We're talking painful, vulnerable to infection burns that affect the first and middle skin layers. The middle layer, the dermis, is also THE SENSORY PART OF YOUR SKIN and it has a LOT of blood vessels. The nerves THEMSELVES are being constantly bombarded with pain signals NONSTOP when there's a second-degree burn. I can't find if the second-degree burns were superficial or deep (aka how much of the dermis was burned away), but I've had a superficial second-degree burn due to incorrect handling of soup. I have abnormally high pain tolerance according to the ER doctors who saw me when I needed my knee dislocations fixed. And I had to live with my burned hand submerged in a glass of cool water for three days before air stopped feeling like I was burning my muscles off with acid. And that was just on a patch of skin about 4 inches by two. Also, the particular EMS service (EMSA) in this case had SEVERAL PREVIOUS COMPLAINTS of not responding to critical transport requests in a timely manner and forcing other firefighters and patrol troopers to transport patients themselves. There's a problem and the problem isn't the firefighters.
@@thanesgames9685 So if the child was in no danger, what the child really needed in that moment was not the ambulance per se, but relief from the agonizing pain. Isn't that what happened?
This is like that story of the lifeguard who was fired for saving a drowning child on a beach because he stepped outside of his designated area to do so.
I read that story !! What really pissed me off about it - if he hadn't left his 'zone' to save the child and the child drowned; not only would he have been fired but he would have been charged with the child's death and the city would have been sued !!
I’m a retired Fire Chief, if that was one of my Captains I would have given him an Accommodation. If you read this Sir, that was the right thing to do.
Way late here, and stupid long reply incoming, but thank you Jason for not pointing fingers or placing blame directly and solely on the EMSA ambulance drivers. In this case, EMSA as a whole *was* to blame since it was the company politics that started the entire complaint against Corey Britt (firefighter that made the decision to transport the child), and EMSA had been getting slower and slower to respond around the city throughout the pandemic due to Covid itself as well as staffing issues, but the EMSA EMT/Paramedics themselves in this particular event were not to blame. They were just people trying to do their jobs during a shit show of a time in the world. This was when the Covid19 pandemic was still causing countless issues around the world. During this time, hospitals were extremely overcrowded and ambulances often found themselves having to wait outside hospitals with patients still in the vehicle because there were no available beds. This could result in wait times of 4 hours or more before they could respond to additional calls. This put a massive strain on many, many medical facilities around the country especially in larger cities like Oklahoma City which has more than 1,000 firefighters and 38 different stations, not counting their EMS and contracted EMSA departments. Yes, the child was an absolute high priority call, but in some cases during the pandemic times, there was simply no way to hurry up the process when all ambulance units are currently on a run. The options are pretty much sit and wait for room in the hospital to open up and hope against hope it happens quickly, or kick your current patient out of the ambulance and make them sit on a street corner somewhere. Or, in this case, take matters into your own hands and get the child to the hospital in the best way you can when time is of the essence. After this incident, OKC changed their related regulations. Senate Bill 1515 passed on November 1, 2022 and allows a certified emergency medical response agency to provide limited transport in an emergency vehicle after receiving the approval of appropriate medical control, even if that vehicle or company is not made for patient transport... as was the case in this particular situation with Fire Station 34s Corey Britt.
The Capt. did the right thing- regs or no regs. The young child needed immediate care. The Dept. Chief should have his back on this one, so should the ER doctors.
Imagine being there. Child crying its head off, parents scared shitless, and you're just standing there waiting. Time passes, and you're trying to calm everyone down, soothe the child. Parents asking repeatedly what's going on, why you're just waiting. More time passes, parents looking at you, like you're gonna just let their kid suffer, as you keep glancing at your watch telling them the ambulance will be here, it's on its way. More time passes. Finally you'd just say enough waiting, and you'd go.
Something the guys in the office will never understand. All they can do is sit behind a desk and issue laws and protocols. Lame how the hard working, honest individuals will never get paid enough yet these politicians get paid way more for just making laws and blah blah. So stupid, see how messed up this situation is? Good news though is that more than likely the Captain can just move to a different department and get hired. (Although moving is a big mess etc. but it would be worth it to get back into the fire business!)
@@GamerMason123 couldn't agree more, i work construction, and sometimes we get these college kids coming in with all their book knowledge thinking they know more than god, and think they can argue with my dad, whos been doing the business for 35 frickin years. every god damn time they go ahead with their oh so smart plan, they come crying to my dad "oooh what did we do wrong waaahhh it all should have worked!!!" and my dad's just like "well if you did what i asked you to from the beginning, maybe you wouldn't have to pay EVERYONE to come in and redo everything." i swear these college nuts and office workers think theyre gods or some shit
That is the exact problem I HATE in my country. We too have this worker/ office idiot situation but they call it the “white hat thinks, blue hat executes” BS. God I hate this entitlement of these people. And in every situation you are the donkey if anything doesn’t work.
I can totally relate. where in work there are countless things that should be different for things to run smoothly. but since the owners are constantly are the store they have the say if they want things done differently. it's like of the people who sat behind desks accually.listened to the people who do the work there wouldnt be this mess of them thinking they know what's best. there would be a harmony and a better flow of things.
“We have rules, Captain.” “Uh huh, seein as how it was a dumbass rule, I chose to ignore it.” In all serious tho, if it was my kid... I’d have put him in my car and followed the fire truck to the hospital at the 10 minute mark. Unless I’m blind broken or dead, I’m getting my kid help with or without assistance.
Running lights and sirens with a second car following is super frowned upon by most departments, and not just for policy reasons. It's much safer to just use the EMS vehicle only because when people hear the sirens and see the lights they almost always only expect one vehicle. This leads to the second car possibly getting into an accident due to people starting driving again after the first vehicle passes and creating another emergency. The safest course of action is to have the patient and possibly one family member in the ambulance (or fire truck) and then having the rest of the family make their way to the hospital in a calm and orderly fashion.
@@ryanmedic789 Lots of missing information in the heat of the moment. In those shoes, in that situation, hard to weigh the child against what could or could not happen. Tough decision all the way around. Hindsight is easy. Had the child died at the scene waiting... different conversation...
@@ryanmedic789 infection? We’re talking about a burn victim not a broken arm... you are obviously a cooler head than I would be. 20 minutes of my child screaming in agony... Daddy help me... just sit and wait buddy... nah, you do you tho.
But sadly that is slowly becoming the norm.... If it looks or sounds good.... Who cares if people get hurt....it's all about the rules....not what is right or compassionate
@Everett Padgett how do you get left vs.right from this ? The fact is simple this isn't political this is about the letter of the law which is what's being used against him vs. the spirit of the law which is how the law should be applied. In this case this man did the moral thing and the law which was most likely written to curtail use of the equipment for personal conveyance was used to punish. Laws are not moral they are rules usually put into place to make people more ethical, but they are rarely ever based in morality. This man should not be punished and those who live in the town where this happened need to pressure their respective councils and Mayor as well as county commissioners to reinstate him in fact take it to a state level if necessary. In no way is this a left or right thing. That line of thinking is exactly what has lead to the rancor and division enough is enough.
His words have exactly the same meaning now as two years ago. Glad he told it the way it REALLY is. Also, when a young child is in severe pain for 20 minutes (or one minute) it is never ending agony. It’s an eternity. A child does not perceive the passage of time the way an adult does.
Frankly speaking all ppl in pain perceive moments of pain as endless. It's just that kids haven't yet had their honest reactions bullied out of them by societies implication that that should be a thing!!
@@KxNOxUTA Not saying you’re wrong but as a former first responder I have to say what I saw. Societal norms, customs, proprieties and conventions mean not a damn thing to any individual experiencing severe pain. I vigorously maintain that children can and do perceive pain differently and much more acutely than adults. Purely my subjective conviction.
It's also a scientific fact that children experience pain more intensely than adults. Kids' bodies are so new that their nerve endings are extra sensitive to everything, as our bodies are designed to endure decades of wear and tear with the 5 senses fading in intensity over time. I still remember badly scraping my knee as a 4y/o as one of the most vivid excruciating pains I've ever had, despite having definitely experienced more severe injuries. Heck I even partially dislocated a hip once and didn't notice for weeks until my weightlifting buddy told me I was limping and heavily favored one leg when doing squats--couldn't even recall when it happened, just knew that my back and leg had been killing me for a while. It's not about which one is worse, but the body and life experience you had a the time.
@@riverstyx7251 I fell on a coffee table and the corner hit my eye in the edge, missing my actual eye by probably a few millimeters. Try doing a butterfly stich or whatever to a screaming Two year old. Apparently it didn't go well.
I think you are right about kids feeling pain different than adults but for a different reason. As an adult, I have felt many different levels of pain and understand it's not going to last forever, and there is an end to it, I know this from experience. A child will not only have the pain but the panic of not knowing if this is going to be how they feel for the rest of their life. Their moment in time is all-encompassing, where adults have history to rely on.
"You are being charged a $2,000 fine and will be released of your duties for saving a burnt child's life" - The prosecutors/judge probably "Thank you for saving the child's life!" - The child, parents, fellow firefighters, EMTs, and normal people who appreciate what this man has done
He didn't commit a crime, he broke a policy. Prosecutors and judges have no say in the matter. A lot of policies actually break the law. Even if he did commit a crime, he can use the defense of necessity. For example, if you're in the middle of nowhere with no way to contact emergency services but there's a parked car that isn't yours, you may legally "borrow" it if doing so is necessary to save someone's life. A more common example is going slightly over the speed limit and running red lights when a pregnant woman is about to give birth and you need to drive her to the hospital. The defense of necessity doesn't apply if you're driving recklessly though. Basically, it has to be reasonable.
@@Accrovideogames wrong. Policies when deemed needed can be broken. Laws and rules are written and not universal laws. if judge says "you caused no harm, parents not pressing charges and had very good reason to act like this therefor you will be just getting a slap on cheek, you are relived from duty for 1 week and gonna work under supervision for a month, case dismissed" goverment has rights to dismiss any charge that is not charged by other people, they just choose to not do it
Everyone, including you would've been up in arms if the fire truck crashed and the baby was further injured or even killed. Then you would be citing negligence on the part of this chief, the family would've sued the fire station, the chief and the city (and won) and now the tax payers are on the hook for another multi million dollar payout. The rules are there to avoid that lawsuit. I don't agree with it, it's just fact. If judges and Juries would do a better job at throwing BS lawsuits out, this wouldn't be an issue.
Doctor: “Sorry, it’s against policy to treat a burn victim that has not been properly transported. Please take the child back to the scene and call for another ambulance.”
I’m in ems. And your wrong what he did is amazing and I’m proud of that firefighter and what he did. Until you know what it it’s like to see people suffer like that you can’t understand. Plus that kid need treatment that’s something that can’t wait .
If those politicians showed up at hospital in life or death critical condition. Then Dr. Said sorry can't treat you till paperwork filled out. Oh I don't have insurance info go hame and get it. They would sure change policy very quickly. Or if it was their loved one.
It's just insane that there was a large number of people that genuinely went "how dare you try to take care of this 2 year old burn victim instead of letting them sit there festering in their wounds in agonizing pain while the kid's parents could do nothing but watch".
It’s called a sop “standard operating procedure” that creates a guideline for how to operate in foreseen situations, but guess what? Waiting 24 mins for paramedics isn’t standard, nor foreseen (hopefully) at that point, you make the best decision with what info you have (if he knew the paramedics where seconds out, he would likely have made a different call, but chances are he’d been hearing “there almost there” for the last 20 or so mins.) so you use all that fancy training and risk reward analysis that you’ve spent 100’s if not 1000’s of hours, getting pounded into you thick skull and do the best you can. Hats off to you capt. You did what’s best for the patient, not the bureaucratic loons that are worried more about liability then saving a two year old. Walk tall,stand proud.
Where I live, 24 minutes for an ambulance is lucky My mother had a seizure and collapsed unconscious when I was in high school, called 911 and it took an hour for the ambulance to get to the house Then they got lost on the way to the hospital because they had a disagreement on what was the right way to go
@@RagingBadger68 I'm going to assume you're in a low density rural area. I'm in a medium density rural area, and the ambulance service agreement specifies 15 minute response time or better. (barring extenuating circumstances)
He made a command decision in an emergency situation and they gig him for it. Not the fire service I became a part of 34 years ago. Where is the IAFF? “The duty to act”. Shits gone insane. If he has Go Fund Me I’ll come back and post it.
@@DominickWalenczak (Apologies, this is a wall of text. Feel free to ignore it, no TL:DR from me) Sometimes emotional decisions are more effective than calculated ones. This is a variable with many factors to include, even forgetting the large bill that would most likely be sent to the parents of the burn victim for a paramedic vehicle. Logically he made the most effective cost based decision as well as emotional after waiting 20 minutes for a vehicle that had been dispatched to help alleviate a small child's pain. The calm calculated decision would have thought "It's more cost effective to simply go there immediately upon finishing checking up on what's necessary here" which is most likely the case, if he's willing to assist a young child who's in more pain than you might be able to imagine. I personally have had to take care of grease fires and am accustomed to several forms of physical burn damage that it's a respectable thing to see somebody helping a toddler in this situation. Please calculate using proper variables, utilize and understand most human pain tolerance along with severity of damage, the age of those being affected along with the future impacts it will have on said human. Logically he shouldn't have done it in this manner if he wanted to keep his job and knew his upper management would do this, however using the logic of common sense, it's probably a good thing to help a child in immense pain. At least that's what I can gather from this information, if you can explain to me in great detail how the calm and calculated decision would work better in this scenario after we add on the human kind's logic of "kindness to others" as a factor. I'm genuinely curious
@@aimaedac personally bring that kid is the logical plan. Decision. Waiting for a team that isn't there yet thats emotional as would have to wait the whole time as that kid suffers, yea no thank you, ill just bring that kid myself, simple
He has done a very heroic job, if I could, I definitely would shake his hands for being such an awesome person and making a great decision in order to save the poor child’s life. He actually deserves to be honored and deserves to get a medal for that job
This is bullshit. He should be hailed a hero, and giving a raise. They need to get this rule out of there. Give the hero back his job. He did what he was supposed to do. Save the life of a 2 year old, which he did. If anything the EMS DEPT Should be answering questions as to why it took over 20 minutes to get there and transport the patient. BRAVO WELL DONE... I APPLAUD YOU.. and you shouldn't lose your job over it. Get a life to the people who fired the fireman.. He is a HERO.. LET THE HERO SERVE
What a lot of people are overlooking and the reason we have policies like these is when something like this does happen and things dont turn out well the parents then sue and probably win a big settlement. People are shitty and always look for someone else to blame.
@@Inbal_Feuchtwanger Yeah, well that's a risk they all take as first responders. The problem is the system allowing a lawsuit to be carried out against a first responder that did the right thing. The excuse you're making doesn't excuse the fact that they relieved this HERO of his duty for doing the right thing. I get that you're only looking at it from the view of a liability standpoint but, it's still not a viewpoint of a logical person that sees it from a human perspective. I bet this man's superiors would be begging for their child to be transported, by any means necessary, if the EMS were not showing up for 20+ minutes. The fear of a lawsuit? Then they wouldn't show up and transport ANYONE at all.
@@abcdefgabcdefg720 I am saying the firefighter waited over 20 minutes for an ambulance with a baby that had 2nd degree burns then took the child in the vehicle to the hospital. The firefighter should be a hero. The rules would not matter had it been one of their own kids. In some rare cases rules can be broken for the greater good. Saving a child is as good as it gets. What was the hold up with an ambulance? Does anyone know?
@@donnawest1126 Apparently the ambulance that was called was on the other side of town and was stuck in traffic but don't quote me on that I may be wrong.
He may have upset the executives, the politicians & the suits who spend their days clean, in air conditioned offices but he earned the respect of every hardworking grunt in the trenches!
For those wondering, as of yesterday (November 1st, 2022), state law has changed as a direct result of this incident, and now allows for this to happen "in special circumstances". It was requested of lawmakers by the OKCFD, and boy was the action fact. As for the fire fighter, as far as I can find, while he did lose his leadership position at the station, he did not receive demotion, termination, any loss of pay, or suspension
That's a FACT! Wish more people thought like that. Too many who tout the "humanitarian" principles are the same one who turn against those like the fire captain who live the life of true humanitarians and help those in need.
To this gentleman, and you sir are a gentleman, as a firefighter I would want you in our corner, helping our family. What a wonderful thing you did. I have such great respect for you because you didn’t just stand by and allow that baby to suffer and boy was she suffering, you thought of the child before consequences. From the bottom of my of my heart…Thank you! 💐
“rules! Hell there are no rules! We’re trying to get something done around here!” Thomas Edison. Many have broken the “rules” in the name of humanity from those who hid Jews from the Nazi, those who hid slaves going north to freedom to those who have been arrested for leaving water in the desert for migrants. Good rules are good , bad rules are well sometimes VERY bad. When I was in high school (many many years ago) the local rural fire department was all volunteer. The “rule” required you to buy a $5 fire tag and nail it outside your house. A guys house caught on fire one morning, the fire trucks arrived. No fire tag. The stood and watched it burn to the ground. That was the rule! The fire chief had to leave town quickly! Bad rule.
@Adrian Wilson I didn’t say all rules are bad. Heck the universe has rules. Good rules are good - those that protect human life and rights. Bad rules are bad-those that endanger people or remove freedom. A good society strive to make good rules and change or eliminate bad ones.😊
There was a lot of backlash here in Oklahoma because of this. Many people were extremely mad, upset and disgusted with the his dismissal. Luckily our state leaders heard and listened to everyone and the law was changed the year after is dismissal. Thank you for sharing his story. Sanity Wins! OK Scraps Law That Punished Firefighter for Aiding Burned Child 5.17.2022
Yes, Absolutely! I think he should have got back pay and a pay raise. EMSA in Oklahoma County/City are not funded or paid by City or County. They're a private business, I think. So before the law changed; his actions cost EMSA a $1500 paycheck or more since the patient was a burn victim and also a toddler. 😡😡 It's all about the money.
This is NOT ENOUGH…these situation will re-occur over and over unless the suits at desks making these decisions are called out and punished for inappropriate use of office and frankly, bad attitude.
He should’ve clocked out “borrowed” the parents car and then he would’ve been a civilian just doing his community a service. But because he’s on the clock, nope, sorry this red tape won’t allow you to save a toddlers life or stop his pain. And then people wonder why we hate bureaucracy
I'm glad firefighter helped child , sucks he lost his job .I'm just saying if the parents had a car they should have taken themselves but I wasn't there so I don't know what the situation is I hope the firefighter captain gets his job back
@@LarryTheBassplayer And what would he done if the kid went into shock? he was not in a position to help the kid and he could have died. Then the family would have sued for causing greater harm.
As someone who has experienced 2nd degree burns, he did the right thing there, that kid was in agony and he didn't want to see the kid suffer any longer than he had to so he got the kid to the hospital. Kudos to him.
It's about the most painful a burn is going to be. Deeper burns kill the nerves so they don't actually hurt as much (but the surrounding less deep burns *definitely* hurt)
I was in a car roll over about 10yrs ago and was luckily able to self extricate and then had to wait in a truck on the side of the road for 3hrs because the only ambulance had been dispatched to the nearest airport for a patient transfer. When the Volunteer Captain told the dispatcher that he was just going to drive me the 20kms back into town to the hospital he was informed that doing so would basically end his time as a fire fighter and if I was found to have suffered any extra injuries he would not have the usual support behind him. I told him not to worry and apologised for wasting his Sunday and proceeded to drift in and out of consciousness for the next couple of hours until the ambulance showed up. Good times.
This is so inhumane. You could have died! “Yeah, sorry but you going to have to wait an extra hour for an ambulance even though your at risk for brain damage because I can’t legally do that”. Anyone who thinks that’s right should not work in emergency services
@@VioletEmerald As an FYI, at least in my area of the U.S, the dispatcher isn't the boss. The dispatcher just reiterated what all of us volunteers know, which is that if we do things outside of protocol to save someone then our workers comp won't cover us for injuries, and if something happens to a patient during such an exercise we will be personally financially responsible for any injuries and lawsuits. I.E the Department, which is already on a shoestring budget, will not back us up nor will our Department's insurer. Now ask me if I am willing to lose my house, my farm, my actual job (Because us Vol FFs have an actual job outside of firefighting and we do this for free on the side) and have my wife, my kids and myself kicked out to the curb so that I can drive a patient to the hospital. The answer is no. Especially in the OP's case where a car rollover is likely going to have C-spine implications and loading him into your own personal car with a C-Collar on is almost guaranteed to expose any C-spine problem. And yes, the system sucks, but it's not the Vol Fire Captain's fault. He was probably at home eating supper with his family when he got toned out, arrived on-scene and got told EMS had a 3hr ETA. Nothing we can do about that. I've waited 1.5 hours before until ALS arrived onscene. The only thing the Captain MIGHT could've done is call for a medical chopper, but then the OP would have a fat $20,000 medical flight bill waiting for him. And if the injuries were not deteriorating then the Captain can get sued for needlessly calling a chopper.
@@the32712 THIS is the sad truth. Good Samaritan laws will only go so far, and not nearly far enough in some cases. Alas, no one ever adheres to the adage 'case by case basis'
I love your channel, but knowing from your own mouth that you are SO passionate about your job and helping others makes me have that much more respect for you and what you do. It's greatly appreciated and we need more people like you and the chief in this story!❤
As my Chief used to say....break a rule or protocol like this...if it saves a life...we'll celebrate the save and worry about discipline, if any later. Kudos Captain....fucking kudos to you. I would have done the exact same thing.
Yup,!. My white hat response...."you did what? Well when the call is done get me a written report of the situation and why you deviate from protocol. I want you to outline your thought process in writing and what factors you considered". Assuming this is what it appears to be on the surface and he did what he felt was right for the community, and he understands the impact of taking a fire crew and engine out of service and thought through that impact... I might just frame the report as a reminder of the type of officer I expect and the autonomy I entrust them with serving the community together as a team. Side note. I hope that family and other parents express to the council thier support. We spend a shit ton of money on gear, rigs and staffing.. what good does it do waiting roadside.. And yes, I run an ambulance service in my dept... it should be transport by ambulance... but that implies they are available... Oh wait... ambulance folks will be arguing there was no clinical difference in outcome.. I say BS. The care needed is is ER, and my medics on fire trucks can drop tubes with the best of them, because they also work the ambulance and more (ER and Flights). Clinical outcome results also have zero consideration of emotional trauma and the effect of just know your being taken care of. Patients are not empty vessels evaluated of data... how relieved do you think that family was.... Now, I don't want to encourage this type of response. Fire trucks are not ambulances. I would have felt better grabbing a medic and sticking the patient in a car seat in a command vehicle and running hot to the ER, but who knows there system status at that point. If that's part of the discipline and failure to communicate the situation, that's understandable discipline. If it's for taking action in light of inaction and no better option, then poor leadership. Holy rant.. I better stop.
@@chrisj9008 much respect. I'm not a fire fighter or in EMS. If you are out of service waiting or out of service driving to the hospital it seems you are out of service either way. If you are 5 minutes from the hospital it seems you could be closer to getting free by taking that path instead of continuing to wait.
@@randyogburn2498 yup, what's the system effect. I have seen fire apparatus sit roadside waiting for a tow truck for an hour rather than just pushing a car off the road. That's why I specifically always say we serve the community not the citizen. More often than not the hard decisions are the one best for the community as a whole and not always the solo citizen. That does not exclude us from we doing everything we can for a single citizen whenever we can.
I didn't get the impression from the news article it was life threatening but otherwise I totally agree. No parent should have to watch their child suffer
Yup, Fuck the COC not standing behind there cap. Probably wouldn’t have cancelled Med and asked for an als rendezvous, but the guy put a human life before politics. I’d be proud to work his truck
There are rules, and then there is right and wrong. The rules are supposed to help the worst of us to do right, but they are incomplete because you can't predict every possible scenario when you write them. That means that the rules will only be right in the context of the system in wich they were created. When the system does not preform as expected, the rules fail us. And when that happens we survive because the very best of us rise above the rules and follow their hearts with the purest intent. My heart goes out to this man!
His heart stepped over the rulebook in an emergency situation with a child. You really cannot fault him in any way for that. Exceptions can and must be made. Bravo to that brave man.
It kinda hurts the heart that firefighters don’t just have to fight to save all of us, but they also have to fight these idiot bullies treating him like he’s been called to the principals office. So proud of all of you!
@@renn0k402 but the gorvenment didn't own that ambulance it was a private ambulance who are the ones who snichted most likly cos they are the ones who profit off people calling them.
I use to be a voluntary Search and Rescue. We were told to never transport no matter what. Rescue is called when things go wrong, rules are great but the fact that rescue is dispatched means the normal went wrong. Give this guy a raise, he did his job and the ambulance companies job too. We need more like him.
@@ryanmedic789 no, he is being disciplined because he followed a stupid rule until his conscience would no longer allow him to follow it. Burn injuries are life threatening, even a small one can easily lead to serious infection. The only thing he did wrong was waiting 20+ minutes. He should have told the parents after 5 minutes to get the kid to the hospital while they worked on the fire. Even without speeding the kid would have been at the hospital before the emts arrived on the scene. Bureaucracy and frivolous lawsuits are what caused this. People that don’t have experience in the field, and their lawyers, dictating what should or should not be done just to avoid liability.
@@ryanmedic789 first off, if you were a paramedic for that long you would have seen patients transported in many different ways besides by ambulance. Secondly this happened in Oklahoma City, not Canada. So everything you have to say after that means nothing. Have a nice day, enjoy your lack of freedom.
@@ryanmedic789 I don’t give a shit what you feel the need to do or not do. I wasn’t questioning whether or not you were a paramedic. If you misunderstood what I was saying, you are either stupid or you are being defensive because you know what you said isn’t entirely right. You are attempting to use your anecdotal expertise while also applying it to a country you aren’t from. You layered mistakes on mistakes. Your problem, not mine. You have enough problems in your own country, you don’t need to be worrying about ours. A great Canadian professor has said in the past, “clean your room.” Maybe you should read the book before offering advice to others.
Or, perhaps not. Personal sacrifice like this brings this matter to attention and maybe even get the policies changed. I am sure the good people of OK will see to it that his next job is an upgrade.
"The following guidelines should be followed at all firefighting and emergency scene operations, ." These are guidelines; nothing can replace the experience & decision making of a seasoned officer.
My Grandmother always said. "IF you can DO!". perfect example right there. He knew the exact repercussions of his actions, but the life and pain of a child mattered more than any of them. This reminds me of that lifeguard that got fired because he saved a drowning victim outside of his designated zone.
And what if he would have cause the kid to die by getting into an accident? They would have demanded that captain be fired and put in prison for disobeying rules. They would have lawyered up immediately!
@@PixelThorn oh I do. I know paramedics who have been sued. I've read reports where medics and firefighters get sued for not following protocols. This guy got lucky and the kid lived. It could have been worse.
@@MrGamecatCanaveral your hinging your argument on the chance that the firetruck could have gotten in an accident. Well so can ambulances, and i dont expect it would end any better for a toddler patient. Besides, how often do firetrucks get in accidents and in particular what are the actual chances that one would on that specific day. Existing is a risk, everything we do comes with risks, saying we should do nothing because theres a risk is just dumb, then no ome would ever do anything.
As a little baby (4-7 months) i was burned severely with boiling oil and had third degree burns, i was rushed to a hospital by a police officer (im not certain if it was my mom who drove me or the officer but im fairly certain it was an officer) my life was saved because of the officer who took both me and my mom to the hospital. If that officer was not there i would have died waiting for an ambulance. Im so sorry for the kid who went through the same thing as me, and i hate the fact that the firefighter lost his job because he saved a little boys life. In summary, fuck the station that fired him he is an American icon and should be given the medal of honor
When I was in high school a 14 year old freshmen walked into the school nurse's office complain of a bad head ache and feeling "really weird." The nurse took one look at the girl and knew right away she didn't have time to wait for an ambulance. She put the girl into her own car and drove her to the ER, speeding, running red lights and stop signs, and got the girl to the hospital intime to save her life. She was having a stroke and would have died if the nurse called an ambulance. What the nurse did was *VERY* against not only school rules, it was against the law. But this was in 1986, so instead of punishing the nurse, they honored her. Sometimes, circumstances override the rules and even the law. Did you know *ANYONE* can run red lights and disregard speed limits and stop signs provided there is an actual emergency. You have to be careful, but it is not illegal in an emergency. Don't drive recklessly, be careful, but you can break the rules sometimes.
Great story, but not sure why you felt the need to say, "but this was in 1986." The US is so large and state policies so different that there is no one standard opinion on how to deal with the situation: that's the whole reason people are outraged, just like they would have been decades ago. Most in the comments can think of an instance where an emergency service disobeyed traffic laws even recently. This sounds like just a bad decision by a few office administrators, not The Entire Government trying to punish this guy.
When we realized I was in labor at 24 weeks, we knew there was no chance of getting an ambulance in time, since we lived 30 minutes from the nearest hospital. My husband did about 80 mph down the highway to get me there. We got into traffic at a red light once we hit town, but realized the car in the next lane was a cop. My husband threw the car in park and jumped out, yelling to the cop what was happening. Turns out there was an unmarked cop car behind us. They gave us an escort through town to the hospital. Our sweet boy was born 5 minutes after we got there. Sadly he was stillborn, but at least we were in the hospital, which means my kids weren't in the room and traumatized any more than they already were, and I had medical people all around. Even though they couldn't do anything to save him, they were there, which means I don't ask the question the rest of my life, 'would he have lived if I'd been at the hospital'. Thank goodness for my husband being skilled at driving, and those cops for thinking quickly to get us across town.
Did you know that if you ask a police officer, if anyone can break traffic laws when there is an actual emergency, that officer would tell you no. Only those with emergency lights on can do so. Did you know that if you answer that question on your L permit traffic test, you'll fail the exam, if you say its okay to break the laws in an actual emergency? Did you know that if the girl had died, instead of lived, that the nurse would have been in a completely different set of circumstances? So, remember, if someone is having an actual emergency and they blow a red light and collide into you... then by your logic, you can't sue them or their insurance, because it was an emergency. Even if they killed your two kids and paralyzed you, when they collided with you. Because they were having an actual emergency. No. No... No! Anyone who follows this person's advice is not going to get off Scott free, especially if by their actions they cause an emergency. A cop might be willing to escort you to the hospital... after they pull you over and give you a ticket for violating the law, but you are still going to have to pull over otherwise it will be a high speed chase and you'll be facing jail time. Do the smart thing and plan ahead. The traffic laws are there to protect everyone, and you disregarding them because you didn't plan ahead, and driving like a maniac to avoid an emergency, often causes an emergency. I really wonder how many of those videos online of people blowing the red lights at 30+ the speed limit and cause a massive horrific car accident are people like this person that doesn't plan ahead.
Bruh he literally saved the kids skin. The fact that people are pissed because he chose to save someone instead of wait for the damn ambulance is disgusting.
Who is "they"? It would be the public getting mad at him in that case, not the department and city. You're conflating two different groups of people and crying hypocrisy.
@@VogtTD No, actually sfergel is not. Because when the public got pissed and came after the upper staff "they" would throw everyone else under the bus passing the blame. It happens all the time.
“Rules are made for perfect situations; it’s for the Captain to make them fit the imperfect ones.” Captain James Kirk. This Captain lived that sentiment.
Hell yea!
Amen. When in doubt, quote THE captain.
Hell yeah, Captain Kirk was never more right
Exactly.
It’s a TV scriptwriter’s take on a WW2 quote from an RAF fighter pilot, Sir Douglas Bader…. "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
Even in my police department, our supervisors had a conversation with us when we started getting 1 hour+ ambulance delays in a MAJOR city. The conversation went: "I can't tell you to transport a seriously injured child or any other individual in your patrol car, but you do what you need to do". First responders didn't swear an oath to follow dumb ass policies, we swore an oath to preserve life.
Might need to remind some of your fellow officers of this…
My father-in-law benefited from this sort of action. He slipped and fell last winter in his driveway, breaking his femur. A city worker saw it and called it in, city police showed up for the 911, but EMS was going to be 40 minutes because of the volume of calls they had on due to the crap conditions. Cop made the decision to get him in the car and take him to the hospital, which was contrary to normal procedures, but he received kudos for doing the right thing.
God bless you
@@Capt.Pikles Thank you for bringing completely irrelevant commentary to this otherwise positive thread.
@@agirlnamedmichael1670 seems pretty relevant when so many pigs go out of their way to violate the rights of people, gun down individuals for no reason, or otherwise betray the badge and the community they serve.
Last time i checked, its called being a FIRST responder. He was there, he responded first. He did his job perfectly.
My grandaddy was a firefighter. It was against protocol back then for them to share their air supply when doing rescues, but he could never stand to see a child suffer and shared his air supply often. He ended up with emphysema from the repeated smoke inhalations but never regretted it for a second, because in many cases, sharing his air meant the difference between a child making it out alive. No one should be penalized for giving their all to ease the suffering of another person.
This is a really tough one.
If he didn't share his air, the child could have died or had live long illness.
But if he did, there is a chance he could have lost consciousness and got himself and the child killed.
I am happy he was able to save him and is alive, good in him.
@@pianissimo7121 he probably knew how to do the sharing business of oxygen, which is not easy and he probably has the emphysema because even small particles can cause emphysema what happens is the lungs get damaged over a period of time any firefighter can get that by the way, not just one that is sharing his oxygen to save person’s life.
What your granddad or dad did I can’t remember if it’s granddad or dad at this point it’s too early in the morning was the right thing to do, but that’s the problem though isn’t it sometimes you do the right thing and you get punished for it and it’s wrong Just plain wrong.
Your Grandad Is A ⭐⭐ Stars & Striped Hero! ⭐⭐
100% agree, for those of you who don’t work in EMS, we have a rule called the “Golden Hour” meaning from time of injury you have one hour to the victim to surgical correction, otherwise their chance of making a good recovery droops off drastically. 24 minutes waiting for the ambulance, plus the fire engine’s own response time to the scene they were already halfway through the Golden Hour, that captain made the exact correct choice, thinking of the patient care first. Wish I could shake his hand too.
Every minute truly matters. If the team that responded to my roommate’s panicked 5am call had waited for the old, broken elevator to get to our floor… I don’t know what would have happened. Instead, one of the paramedics decided to just carry me down the stairs. I later found out he was alarmed at how underweight I was. He should not have been able to carry me so easily… In that lizard-brain state, I was attempting to bite anyone who touched me.
Most of the views we hard are from field personally lets look at this from a leadership stand point. So are you calling 2nd degree burns surgical correctable? The ambulance was disregarded when near by? How would this story read if that Childs airway would have swelled shut and died while being transported on a illegal unsanctioned vehicle? Did this action break any laws? Could the Captain and the fire department be held criminally liable? Could the captain be subjected to a medical review and possible lose his license, better yet could the fire department be fined and or suspended by the state medical board? I think the fire department had no choice but to act in the manner for which it did. So why does it take EMS so long to arrive? obviously I don't have that answer, but why is that EMS makes 80 % of the runs and we are not will to an ambulance in every fire station and then cry when response time are so long? I remember when fire departments did not even want to go to medical calls and they now have taken the moral high ground.
Don't forget the time wasted by people not calling 911 right away, often waiting for someone else to do it. The clock starts ticking at the moment of the incident, not when the call goes through, and he had no way of knowing how long people had stood around with their thumb up their behind before deciding to call. This guy should be getting a medal, not a reprimand.
Waiting 24 minutes… sweet Jesus you’re not supposed to be on scene for more than 10 without a damn good reason.
It’s different with burns, then every SECOND counts.
Has anyone pointed out how much pain and fear the 2 year old must have been in? Waiting 20 minutes must have been EXCRUCIATING for everyone who was there! That he had he discipline to wait THAT long in order to follow protocol is in itself a testament to his self discipline! Bravo, Captain.
That ought to have been seen as evidence of his respect for, and willingness to adhere to the rules.
It's absolutely sickening that the higher-ups within his agency didn't defend him. Shame on those cowards. Bravo to the hero fire fighter, as well as to anyone within his agency that had the courage and decency to go to bat for him.
And at only 2, this was probably literally the worst thing that poor kid has ever experienced. The Absolute Worst Day of their Entire Life so far. Every minute probably felt like hours.
I've had 2nd degree burns twice in my lifetime. The superficial nerve fibers flash fry, so initially the pain isn't so bad...no where near what it'll be after 20 minutes. The chief was watching the child suffer more and more, knowing it wasn't going to get better until he reached an ER. Knowing the risk of infection was going up by the minute.
@shycat5028
Good news is, since it happened when they're only 2, they won't be able to remember how horrendous it was when they're older
@@gingermcgingin4106
That is false, even toddlers can be able to rememeber traumatic events.
As a retired ER nurse I applaud this man. Not only did his fatherly instincts kick in but his life saving instincts and his “it’s the right thing to do” instincts. This child was undoubtedly in pain, dehydrated, and possible airway concerns. Rules are rules for reasons, but when it comes down to lives the rules don’t ALWAYS apply. This man should be made captain somewhere.
Rules that have no flexibility are the reason for so many problems with the country. Here is just another one that does not live in the real world and was put together by people who could not think outside their own bubble. Good work Captain.
#facts he should b capt somewhere!!! he is a role model
Amen. And those above him who fired him need to be gone.
I've always loved the line: "The most well laid plan never survives the enemy." In this case you could picture the rules as the plan and the enemy as the emergency situation. You can never plan for every single possible situation or the book of rules will become so thick it's unreadable. The process of emergency life saving care should be follow the rules but when the rules fail do what is necessary to get the patient to the doctors.
Many rules are rules because somebody in a fancy suit was a dick. Many more are rules because some stuffed shirt needed to show they were still "doing something" to avoid being fired for utter worthlessness. I wish I had a way to figure out the exact percentage. I bet if I could, it would horrify us.
Policy is for guidance, not blind obedience.
The fire Captain is a Captain because he has been deemed to have the experience and judgment to handle situations where policy doesn't tick off all the boxes.
That fire captain should not lose his job or be disciplined. He went above and beyond. I applaud him.
beyond what he is allowed to do.
@@DellikkilleD Ah yes. First responders should just stand around and watch a person die, who they would otherwise have the capacity to save just because the protocol says that's the way it has to be done. Boy, I hope you aren't in a position of power in your municipality!
@@DellikkilleDyou are an insensitive, unbelievably ignorant person for these comments. I refuse to believe you wouldn’t do the same thing placed in the same situation, and if you really let that child suffer any longer than that captain had, you truly are a heartless person. Life over protocol. Period.
@@DellikkilleD and did his job: "Preserving life" in the wake of it.
Sometimes rules need to be broken. Period.
@@DellikkilleD "Sorry, guys, I cannot transport your grieviously injured child which is in excruciating pain in my vehicle, it is against the rules. But I'll give you my thoughts and prayers" is NOT appropriate.
My wild guess is: If he hadn't transported that child that way he would've been chastised for not doing it and sticking to the rules.
Sometimes you cannot win because the one in charge are assholes.
I wonder how much he saved Oklahoma from a lawsuit that begins: the fire dept stood around and did nothing because they didn’t want to get disciplined for driving.
Kudos to all Firemen and paramedics that risk their lives to help us.
Yes!!! Seriously!!! I would have been beyond furious watching idiots wait for an ambulance!! I definitely would have sued and made a huge stink over it.
He is being discipline for saving a life that's worng
@@brandondefend5442 He is probably being disciplined for breaking a State law! rightly or wrongly, Bureaucrats hate seeing people break laws even for just purposes.
@@inconnu4961The issue is that it relies on good judgement, and not dickheaded patients and family when it comes to money and debt. Relying on that, is like praying the sunrise comes 2 hours earlier. Probably the least realistic action available, even if Heaven is the only place you could actually find that possibility.
This is so dumb. He used an emergency vehicle to transport a child to receive medical care. He was trying to get the child there before the "golden hour" was up. This Captain deserves a raise and promotion..
if that were me and i lost my job over it, i wouldve said, "In all universes, and all realities, i wouldve still done the same thing and i would not regret one second of it."
He’s a hero. Rules are meant to be broken within reason, he did exactly what anyone with a good heart would’ve done!
The difference between a good medic and a great medic is knowing when to break protocol (with clinical backing)
@@calebnation7797 exactly as a nurse I did it a few times, arguing with doctors when I knew I was right but they were sitting on their ass. I only ever fought when I knew I was 100% correct and could back everything up but I also knew doing it I could likely lose my job or be disciplined and have it follow me my whole career
I’ve always said rules are for the general, sense is for the specific.
Just proof that government is generally useless and cause more issues than they claim to solve.
Good man!
Capt can rest peacefully at night knowing he saved that child from any further, unnecessary suffering, screw every last superior who didn't stick up for him.
Yep! They should all be embarrassed and looking into why it took so damn long for an ambulance to show up
@@Iamthathillbilly all the ambulances were probably on toe pain calls when this call went out and the closest ambulance was across town. I have had that happen on a infant CPR, thank God we got there and it was a baby with a cough.
Yup, a perfect example of what Is wrong with the world is exhibited by the subject of this video. This is just stupid.
This comment has more likes than the video
Just Google "Oklahoma City firefighter qualifications" the fourth bullet point on Google says the must be a Licensed EMT by the end of their probie year, so that means not only was this officer a seasoned medical provider so were multiple others on that fire rig and made a transport decision as such. If they weren't required to have an EMT level medical training and only CFR or lower I could see this reaction from the higher ups holding some water, but this is a fresh steaming pile of 💩 otherwise.
If that was my baby, I would say, "Let's load and go." My vehicle or yours. He's got lights and sirens and training. He just saved a life. Good for him. We need more people like that
and after getting the law changed as a direct result of this he has saved MANY more
I gave that same reply hummingbird before I saw yours. No way I’m twiddling thumbs waiting twenty minutes! Thanks for the update Chipmunk.
As a nurse, I have nothing but highest praises for this compassionate, wonderful man, great job Captain!
He chose to save a live over the potential of losing his job. Respect.
He chose to save a life. He never even thought about the "rules". "Rules" never crossed his mind.
He did his job and saved a life.
He is a HERO.
But, my guess is he doesn't look at himself as a hero. He looks at it as he was just doung what needed to be done.
But, did he, though? Or did he endanger a life by transporting a pediatric patient with non-life-threatening injuries without an adequate method of securing said pediatric patient in the vehicle?
@@DominickWalenczak Grow up. He was there, you weren't.
Let's have a rational discussion. Can you find data to support the notion that a 1 - 10 minute difference makes a clinically significant difference in a patient with partial thickness burns over the lower extremities? And enough of a difference to risk bodily harm or death to the patient by transporting them without adequate age-appropriate restraints? Part of growing up is the ability to calmly and logically examine the situation and provide the best calculated approach.
@@DominickWalenczak well considering being asked by a small, hurting child "When is help coming, it hurts" or "please make the pain go away"
Its tough making the logical and protocol decision as an emotional, irrational being(human)
When a man puts the life of another above his own career, knowing that he will likely be disciplined, that is the mark of a true man.
Honor, integrity and courage are what set the few apart from the many.
@mike smith Well said!
I've done just that , many have . Think about it most have all sacrificed one way or another. He will be fine no matter the outcome.
You absolutely right!
worst thing is that if if was just some random guy in a truck driving the child to the ER nothing would have happened... due to rules the firefighters can't do shit in this situation...
Sure they can; you just have to be ready for the repercussions
@@Scott___T there shouldn't be repercussions in this situation or in similar situations.
@@Scott___T it is that simple
@@Scott___T and thats the problem... in such situation you should never have to make the decision of keeping your job or saving someones life... Thats the problems with such regulations.
As i said if a civilian would have done this there would have been no legal action but if a team of medical professionals without a transportation license does it they face repurcussions...
@@AHolst-ec7kn That Capt will sleep soundly at night knowing he made the right call. Probably shouldn't have cancelled EMS and probably should have asked for an intercept but; if they didn't show up to the scene they weren't going to meet them on the road. At this point his brothers know he did the right thing. Their respect probably means more to him than anything his COC can do.
Everyone in the comments is saying how incredible that fire captain was. They're absolutely right. But I also want to say, what an incredible speech this was
“Be a patient advocate” & “Do not delay transport” are backbones of our training and operation.
For real. Why are we penalized for doing our jobs?
Push back. Hard.
Lawsuits it is only ways idiotic rules change. He is a hero
@@karolkupec2044yup, people will be like "oh they're afraid of getting sued." Ok, so then they should be changing things so people won't want to sue them. People sue when they need compensation for medical injuries, frivolous lawsuits are not a thing, no matter how much bad faith actors want them to be. Suing people is frikin expensive, and most people DO NOT have the money to sue. They only do so when they're desperate. So pretty simple, companies should stop blocking them at every turn when they try to claim compensation for legitimate incidents. Do you really think a parent who is grateful you saved their child's life will sue you? But you know who will sue you? An angry parent whose child you let die due to stupid policies such as having to wait for an ambulance when there's an emergency vehicle RIGHT THERE
This is the society we live in, a firefighter waited 24 mins for an ambulance to help a two year old with 2nd degree burns, AND HE IS BEING SCOLDED?! society can’t change if we don’t change
I feel ya Bro. I agree with this sentiment. Went to a single vehicle accident, there was a fight and bloke was killing the other guy. Only to get told off, and reprimanded for getting involved and stopping one bloke kill another because the police were still 10 mins away.
It's a crazy, crazy world...
@Drew Jones this is a serious situation, he thinks to himself while reading that comment, but he is trying to act serious with smirk on his face
@Paul Martin inferior to what? What is your standard for a "functional" society. (not saying your wrong, but what are we comparing us too and what is the standard we are looking for?)
Right! Total bullshit.
Rule nazis man
If I were the parents, I'd be in the chief's office, the city council's faces, the mayor's office demanding he be reinstated.
Came to post this. Well said.
Spot on 👍👍👍
Me too
@@ryanmedic789 What the hell are you talking about? Filthy vehicle? WHAT?!
@@ryanmedic789 What kind of back ass fire dept doesn’t have sterile water and burn sheets on their suppression pieces? I can promise you that a major department like OKC would....
I can say as a parent (and my husband happens to be an EMT) that if my child had died or been severely disabled because they were “following protocol” instead of literally saving my kid, I would raise hell.
Hell hath no fury like a protective mother.
As an Oklahoma City resident and the son of first responders, I'm proud to have this man serving my city, and can only hope that public outcry over his unjust treatment by the higher-ups motivates them to reinstate him and clear his record of any wrongdoing.
And give him a raise!
Well he ain’t serving you at the moment, unfortunately
Is there any update on this?!
@ChaoticAngelKitten according to reports the law that he violated was overturned and the department he works for and his unions said in a statement that his discipline did not include demotion, termination or loss of pay. It sounds like they put on a performitive show of slapping him on the wrist because they had to. The public outcry caused reforms to the rules and they emt administration admitted they were understaffed and struggling to keep up because of covid regulations causing delays to patients.
@@sammieh9695 that’s good! Ty for the update!
"The paramedics say they were nearby." Right. Guy probably saved the city a couple hundred thousand dollar lawsuit loss. 20 minute delay on ambulance arrival is a MAJOR failure of the system. That's three deaths long.
Theyll blame it on covid
@@alhen9023 the upper command of OKC FD did exactly that in a news article. Cv was blamed as well as short staffing bc of cv.
@@somewhereinagalaxyfarfaraway but then they should say that, ok, because of covid the system failed, so we're happy that this guy did what he did, despite it being against protocol
"Umm? Oh a child died while we were getting tacos? Ummm Covid, yeah we are such short staff right now because of it. Try suing the disease for the death of your only child."
The real heroes is the firefighter and the EMS was busy doing other things, must of confused their current job with their 2nd job as an Uber driver.
Ain't that 4 deaths?
Since when is it a crime to save a life, and a two year-old at that, he should be rewarded not fired!!
Don't worry, he wasn't, he kept his rank and pay
@@Deuce_and_a_half really? Because I just read a comment that saying he still got demoted.
Just because you get fired doesn't mean it was a crime...
Since incredibles
@@Deuce_and_a_half He wouldn't have had to go through that anyway because what happened was shameful.
He is an angel, the department could not deliver what was needed at the moment, and they are lucky to have him, so is the child, and the entire community.
I'm way late to this but this is called integrity. He made a judgement call in the "fog of war" to save a life. He will probably accept this discipline and wear it as a badge of honor.
Jobs can be replaced - Lives can not. Kudos to this Captain... May he be an example for others that follow his footsteps.
Lol someone apparently is not aware how you came into this world. Yes you are in fact replaceable as thats how reproduction works. Now the individual in question of a situation of pending end as a unique individual being the self is not. As far as perspective of numbers by population goes, yes very replaceable by method of reproduction.
Now this may sound callus and cruel, but lower age is easiest to replace. This is due to the age to fruition time is much less and pushing past 70 range have less value to society by numbers and value alone. Once you see how government and Insurance type systems operate being numbers. A few percent here and there versus printing money are negligible. The system as it is now does not value you nor I as an individual. It values the monetary contribution to cost we apply.
wonder how many lives lost for actually following rules
@@BrokeAgain Ask the good germans.
Rules are made to control the reckless, that man wasn’t reckless, he’s heroic and should be respected as such. Genuine props to him
@Soopy! 100%!!
There is an exception to almost every rule. That’s why people in charge need to really think about each situation and how the rules apply. This wasn’t reckless or self serving or done by amateurs. This is firemen rescuing lives!
You know, I don't agree with many people on the internet but dammit that is exactly how I feel about rules too.
Naw rule was made to dodge responsability if kid died in the firetruck or something it opens the fire departnemnt up for a lawsuit if kid dies on a sidewalk its like oh well ambulance was busy they dont give a shit about the kids life only the money they could be sued for
🍻 ❤
My husband and I recently obtained our CPR AED in a fire department. It was explained to us that the AHA doesn’t teach or recommend mouth to mouth anymore because of blood-borne disease. The instructor clarified, “You all have to decide for yourselves, but I’m telling you right now, as a father, if a four year old needs mouth to mouth, I’m providing mouth to mouth.” We all nodded effusively, clearly deciding the same thing.
First responders do what they do because they care about people, about strangers. I already think there isn’t enough protection for them when they have all the best intentions and something goes wrong. Nothing even went wrong here! He’s being punished because “the rules”, written non-specifically to cover every one of a thousand scenarios, say to wait for an ambulance, assuming a standard response time.
Disgusting.
If there is a petition or anything to help this man, please reply with it so I can sign it.
I’d sign it too.
Me too. Honestly, those rules should be changed to be a little more specific. For example, if the ambulance isn't arriving fast enough or if other factors make the situation call for it, that a first responder/firefighter/any of those may take the actions this man did to at least increase the chances of survival.
@@Queenofgreen515it’s not because of pathogens. It’s because stopping chest compressions even for a few seconds stops the circulation. Lay people cannot do rescue breathing and continue chest compressions. Intubation is the preferred way to administer oxygen while doing chest compressions. You also have more people once responders are on scene to manage all aspects of cardiac arrest. Last but not least, not much oxygen actually gets into the body with mouth to mouth.
And to add to this point, the circulation is effectively delivering oxygen to critical organs. This will only last for a short time obviously, and the patient will need oxygen supplementation as soon as possible. But, the most effective way to help is to do chest compressions and use an AED if available
Yeah, this captain did the right thing. I hope he gets reinstated.
And gets the biggest raise in history
The report online states he was not fired, demoted, or had loss of pay. He was just removed from the role he was in. The Union was 100% on his side
Well, at least he can sleep at night and look himself in the mirror and know that he did the right thing. There’s nothing worse than seeing a child injured or in pain and there’s nothing that can be done. He at least did what he could to ease that child’s pain.
And I hope this inspires a change to the rules.
If it was me, I'd immediately quit after the reinstatement, and tell them where to put it.
The one dislike is his Safety Officer.
😂😂😂😂😂
Well there must be 5 now...
6 other people are in Australia.
@@Zakatak-mf4iq huh? From Australia with love.
Nah as a SO I'd say he did the right thing.
My youngest sister is 5, turning 6 in March. If she had 2nd degree burns and we were waiting on the ambulance for that long, and this man made the call he did, truck it, I'd raise hell and clog up phone lines till he got his job back, with a significant increase in pay. I salute him.
Well said, Nick. You make me proud.
I hope because this made the news, people in the area are doing just that.
I live with chronic pain, regularly puking, and thank God for him. That poor child was suffering that man was like enough is enough, this child needs help now. I don’t wish my pain on another, and I cannot imagine the pain that poor child was in either. And others pointed out that delayed care increases risk of infection and I have cleaned enough wounds and watched enough people deal with sepsis to cheer this man on to make sure that the child is less likely to get any of that. Children want to be firefighters because of the goodness in their heart to help people and save lives, and he’s emblematic of that virtue.
Sad when being an American hero is less important than an insurance clause.
That’s the world we’ve inherited. The world that is lawsuit-hungry and lawsuit-fearful.
Probably not insurance. The ambulance company has a contract. If fire is transporting people the ambulance company doesn’t get paid.
@@AlphanumericCharacters Actually that's exactly the reason . Its simply a meat industry. There is no caring or compassion for the victims. They are only seen as money in the pocket
Yep! Corporate first. People never.
They can’t charge for an ambulance ride if he’s transported in a fire truck.
I would totally stand behind that man 100% if I was his supervisor. He most likely saved the child's life and deserves a medal!! Thank you all first responders ❤
That’s exactly what I was thinking….give that man a medal
He’s definitely a role model for all let alone firefighters to aspire to become❤️
Amen! I would only critisize him for waiting 24 minutes. If the ambulance wasn't there in 12, then just cancel it and use your fire truck!
@@jacktattersall9457 He was probably waiting as long as possible to follow the rules so that he didn't have happen what eventually happened anyway. Until he decided "you know what, these laws fucking blow" and realized the toddler's life was more important than some old coward that made the rule.
It was a second degree burn! It wasn't life threatening!
@@thanesgames9685 ...if you were any more ignorant you'd be drooling. Depending on the area and how much of it is burned treatment can range from simply applying burn creams all the way to skin grafting surgery. Let's also not forget that this was a toddler of 2 years old. If this firefighter...a veteran of the job who most likely has exponentially more experience with burns than you do...decided that this situation was serious enough that he was going to break the "rules" and transport the victim himself then I'm willing to bet he knew what was going on. Do everyone a favor and grow a brain before sounding off again, copy?
Teddy Roosevelt has some words for this man's critics: ""It is not the critic who counts. ... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly ... who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
Outstanding job, Major. FTM PTB
cant wait for another president that is this articulate
Well said
Teddy's sayibg are awesome and this one applea seli tada.
One thing I learned in 36+ years of working for the Federal Government is that sometimes you have to figure out what rule to break. You try to pick the one that does the least damage if things go sideways. I applaud this Captain for doing exactly that.
As someone who has had a second-degree burn on most of my hand, I can say the pain is incredible. It was imperative to get that little one to the hospital. I'm sure the parents didn't have a problem with him transporting their child!
Late to the party, but hell, I'm 28 and I had a second degree burn on my thumb from touching something I shouldn't have while oxyfuel welding (in a welding class). And I had my gloves on.
Worst pain I've been in in years. I kept it together long enough to clean up after myself when I realized I wasn't going to be able to wear my gloves without too much pain, but when I got out to my car, I just held my hand and yelled lol
Was not looking forward to the 40 minute drive home. I was so grateful when, ten minutes in, I remembered the emergency aid kits my mom put together for everybody in the family for our cars. I remembered there was an emergency ice pack in there, and oh my god, it was the only thing that stopped the pain, and only while I kept it on it.
All that to say... This was, in comparison, a tiny blister on my thumb, and I'm an adult who has learned to cope with pain.
This poor fucking kid. That firefighter is a goddamn hero, and I bet even those in administration know that to some degree. The kid's parents sure fucking do.
(And as a parting note: everybody who drives should put together a first aid kit for their vehicle. And I highly recommend emergency ice packs. You just squeeze them to activate them, and they're as cold and relieving as the standard freezer ones)
No! It was not "imperative". The child was in no danger. The Firefighter broke discipline from everyone screaming around him, and put the child in a more dangerous situation. That is not heroism, that is panic, or wanting to play the hero. that's not what was needed.
It was an understandable infraction, and hopefully he gets a slap on the wrist, but the department has to make certain every firefighter hears the rule that shoving injured people into a fire truck instead of waiting for an ambulance won't lead to kudos - except, of course, from the idiots who view life through a TV screen.
@@thanesgames9685 The burn victim had second-degree burns ALL OVER HER BODY. We're not talking "oops I spilled my soup and now some of my thigh is blistering". We're talking painful, vulnerable to infection burns that affect the first and middle skin layers. The middle layer, the dermis, is also THE SENSORY PART OF YOUR SKIN and it has a LOT of blood vessels. The nerves THEMSELVES are being constantly bombarded with pain signals NONSTOP when there's a second-degree burn.
I can't find if the second-degree burns were superficial or deep (aka how much of the dermis was burned away), but I've had a superficial second-degree burn due to incorrect handling of soup. I have abnormally high pain tolerance according to the ER doctors who saw me when I needed my knee dislocations fixed. And I had to live with my burned hand submerged in a glass of cool water for three days before air stopped feeling like I was burning my muscles off with acid. And that was just on a patch of skin about 4 inches by two.
Also, the particular EMS service (EMSA) in this case had SEVERAL PREVIOUS COMPLAINTS of not responding to critical transport requests in a timely manner and forcing other firefighters and patrol troopers to transport patients themselves.
There's a problem and the problem isn't the firefighters.
@@thanesgames9685 So if the child was in no danger, what the child really needed in that moment was not the ambulance per se, but relief from the agonizing pain. Isn't that what happened?
@@thanesgames9685 keep Ur irrelevant opinions to Ur self Mr sheltered life
This is like that story of the lifeguard who was fired for saving a drowning child on a beach because he stepped outside of his designated area to do so.
The people who fired that lifeguard should be sentensed to an hour of waterboarding and indentured for life in service to the saved kid...
@@SonsOfLorgar why would the kid want people like that around? ;-)
@@zyeborm true
@@zyeborm So he can enjoy being called "Massa" for life. :)
I read that story !! What really pissed me off about it - if he hadn't left his 'zone' to save the child and the child drowned; not only would he have been fired but he would have been charged with the child's death and the city would have been sued !!
I’m a retired Fire Chief, if that was one of my Captains I would have given him an Accommodation. If you read this Sir, that was the right thing to do.
Way late here, and stupid long reply incoming, but thank you Jason for not pointing fingers or placing blame directly and solely on the EMSA ambulance drivers. In this case, EMSA as a whole *was* to blame since it was the company politics that started the entire complaint against Corey Britt (firefighter that made the decision to transport the child), and EMSA had been getting slower and slower to respond around the city throughout the pandemic due to Covid itself as well as staffing issues, but the EMSA EMT/Paramedics themselves in this particular event were not to blame. They were just people trying to do their jobs during a shit show of a time in the world.
This was when the Covid19 pandemic was still causing countless issues around the world. During this time, hospitals were extremely overcrowded and ambulances often found themselves having to wait outside hospitals with patients still in the vehicle because there were no available beds. This could result in wait times of 4 hours or more before they could respond to additional calls. This put a massive strain on many, many medical facilities around the country especially in larger cities like Oklahoma City which has more than 1,000 firefighters and 38 different stations, not counting their EMS and contracted EMSA departments.
Yes, the child was an absolute high priority call, but in some cases during the pandemic times, there was simply no way to hurry up the process when all ambulance units are currently on a run. The options are pretty much sit and wait for room in the hospital to open up and hope against hope it happens quickly, or kick your current patient out of the ambulance and make them sit on a street corner somewhere. Or, in this case, take matters into your own hands and get the child to the hospital in the best way you can when time is of the essence.
After this incident, OKC changed their related regulations. Senate Bill 1515 passed on November 1, 2022 and allows a certified emergency medical response agency to provide limited transport in an emergency vehicle after receiving the approval of appropriate medical control, even if that vehicle or company is not made for patient transport... as was the case in this particular situation with Fire Station 34s Corey Britt.
Ok but what about the guy they fucked over? Like ty for changing the law ppl, but he deserves recompense
The Capt. did the right thing- regs or no regs. The young child needed immediate care. The Dept. Chief should have his back on this one, so should the ER doctors.
Imagine being there. Child crying its head off, parents scared shitless, and you're just standing there waiting. Time passes, and you're trying to calm everyone down, soothe the child. Parents asking repeatedly what's going on, why you're just waiting. More time passes, parents looking at you, like you're gonna just let their kid suffer, as you keep glancing at your watch telling them the ambulance will be here, it's on its way. More time passes. Finally you'd just say enough waiting, and you'd go.
Something the guys in the office will never understand. All they can do is sit behind a desk and issue laws and protocols. Lame how the hard working, honest individuals will never get paid enough yet these politicians get paid way more for just making laws and blah blah. So stupid, see how messed up this situation is? Good news though is that more than likely the Captain can just move to a different department and get hired. (Although moving is a big mess etc. but it would be worth it to get back into the fire business!)
@@GamerMason123 couldn't agree more, i work construction, and sometimes we get these college kids coming in with all their book knowledge thinking they know more than god, and think they can argue with my dad, whos been doing the business for 35 frickin years. every god damn time they go ahead with their oh so smart plan, they come crying to my dad "oooh what did we do wrong waaahhh it all should have worked!!!" and my dad's just like "well if you did what i asked you to from the beginning, maybe you wouldn't have to pay EVERYONE to come in and redo everything." i swear these college nuts and office workers think theyre gods or some shit
That is the exact problem I HATE in my country. We too have this worker/ office idiot situation but they call it the “white hat thinks, blue hat executes” BS. God I hate this entitlement of these people. And in every situation you are the donkey if anything doesn’t work.
I can totally relate. where in work there are countless things that should be different for things to run smoothly. but since the owners are constantly are the store they have the say if they want things done differently. it's like of the people who sat behind desks accually.listened to the people who do the work there wouldnt be this mess of them thinking they know what's best. there would be a harmony and a better flow of things.
5 minutes probably felt like an hour. Couldn't imagine waiting 24
“We have rules, Captain.”
“Uh huh, seein as how it was a dumbass rule, I chose to ignore it.”
In all serious tho, if it was my kid... I’d have put him in my car and followed the fire truck to the hospital at the 10 minute mark. Unless I’m blind broken or dead, I’m getting my kid help with or without assistance.
Running lights and sirens with a second car following is super frowned upon by most departments, and not just for policy reasons. It's much safer to just use the EMS vehicle only because when people hear the sirens and see the lights they almost always only expect one vehicle. This leads to the second car possibly getting into an accident due to people starting driving again after the first vehicle passes and creating another emergency. The safest course of action is to have the patient and possibly one family member in the ambulance (or fire truck) and then having the rest of the family make their way to the hospital in a calm and orderly fashion.
If my kid is on his death bed I have no qualms risking my life, and the little he has left, on the off chance I can save him. But that’s just me...
@@ryanmedic789 Yes, but if the pro’s are unable to reach me... I have to do something.
@@ryanmedic789 Lots of missing information in the heat of the moment. In those shoes, in that situation, hard to weigh the child against what could or could not happen. Tough decision all the way around. Hindsight is easy. Had the child died at the scene waiting... different conversation...
@@ryanmedic789 infection? We’re talking about a burn victim not a broken arm... you are obviously a cooler head than I would be. 20 minutes of my child screaming in agony... Daddy help me... just sit and wait buddy... nah, you do you tho.
I am in EMS and have already decided that if doing the right thing means getting fired then so be it. I am with you man.
He’s a hero. Following policies when it could hurt someone is wrong. The captain is a hero!!!!
But sadly that is slowly becoming the norm.... If it looks or sounds good.... Who cares if people get hurt....it's all about the rules....not what is right or compassionate
@Everett Padgett how do you get left vs.right from this ? The fact is simple this isn't political this is about the letter of the law which is what's being used against him vs. the spirit of the law which is how the law should be applied. In this case this man did the moral thing and the law which was most likely written to curtail use of the equipment for personal conveyance was used to punish. Laws are not moral they are rules usually put into place to make people more ethical, but they are rarely ever based in morality. This man should not be punished and those who live in the town where this happened need to pressure their respective councils and Mayor as well as county commissioners to reinstate him in fact take it to a state level if necessary. In no way is this a left or right thing. That line of thinking is exactly what has lead to the rancor and division enough is enough.
We need more of hero’s like him! The parents should sue everyone that tried to punish the captain and he should get an award
Right on for several millions for pain and suffering. God bless you
Amen, he's a hero and should be given a medal not discipline.
The wonders of bureaucratic idiocy never cease.
Way to go Capt.! Definitely the right call, for any patient and especially a little one. Patient care at its best
definitely i understand that theirs rules but they should also come with circumstances
@@scottcantdance804 You mean capitalist idiocy. The firefighter doing that, means the company doesn't get paid for the trip in an ambulance.
Yeah fuck the higher ups Jezz how would they have felt of that was there kid
This man waited 15 minutes longer than I would. Hero comes to mind, I believe ‘Thank You’ is the phrase they were looking for.
This guy shouldn’t have gotten reprimanded he should have been rewarded
He did. He had time off and got paid for it.
That's only if you have a conscience and care about well being of others
@@Woodkin007 but he got demoted
This shit is what happens when city bean counters make policy.
@@Woodkin007 please stop sounding stupid....please🙄
His words have exactly the same meaning now as two years ago. Glad he told it the way it REALLY is.
Also, when a young child is in severe pain for 20 minutes (or one minute) it is never ending agony. It’s an eternity. A child does not perceive the passage of time the way an adult does.
Frankly speaking all ppl in pain perceive moments of pain as endless. It's just that kids haven't yet had their honest reactions bullied out of them by societies implication that that should be a thing!!
@@KxNOxUTA
Not saying you’re wrong but as a former first responder I have to say what I saw. Societal norms, customs, proprieties and conventions mean not a damn thing to any individual experiencing severe pain. I vigorously maintain that children can and do perceive pain differently and much more acutely than adults.
Purely my subjective conviction.
It's also a scientific fact that children experience pain more intensely than adults. Kids' bodies are so new that their nerve endings are extra sensitive to everything, as our bodies are designed to endure decades of wear and tear with the 5 senses fading in intensity over time. I still remember badly scraping my knee as a 4y/o as one of the most vivid excruciating pains I've ever had, despite having definitely experienced more severe injuries. Heck I even partially dislocated a hip once and didn't notice for weeks until my weightlifting buddy told me I was limping and heavily favored one leg when doing squats--couldn't even recall when it happened, just knew that my back and leg had been killing me for a while. It's not about which one is worse, but the body and life experience you had a the time.
@@riverstyx7251 I fell on a coffee table and the corner hit my eye in the edge, missing my actual eye by probably a few millimeters. Try doing a butterfly stich or whatever to a screaming Two year old. Apparently it didn't go well.
I think you are right about kids feeling pain different than adults but for a different reason. As an adult, I have felt many different levels of pain and understand it's not going to last forever, and there is an end to it, I know this from experience. A child will not only have the pain but the panic of not knowing if this is going to be how they feel for the rest of their life. Their moment in time is all-encompassing, where adults have history to rely on.
"You are being charged a $2,000 fine and will be released of your duties for saving a burnt child's life" - The prosecutors/judge probably
"Thank you for saving the child's life!" - The child, parents, fellow firefighters, EMTs, and normal people who appreciate what this man has done
He didn't commit a crime, he broke a policy. Prosecutors and judges have no say in the matter. A lot of policies actually break the law. Even if he did commit a crime, he can use the defense of necessity. For example, if you're in the middle of nowhere with no way to contact emergency services but there's a parked car that isn't yours, you may legally "borrow" it if doing so is necessary to save someone's life. A more common example is going slightly over the speed limit and running red lights when a pregnant woman is about to give birth and you need to drive her to the hospital. The defense of necessity doesn't apply if you're driving recklessly though. Basically, it has to be reasonable.
then the policy is shit and can AND SHOULD be changed
stop defending these absolutely moronic bureaucracies.
@@Accrovideogames
@@Accrovideogames wrong. Policies when deemed needed can be broken. Laws and rules are written and not universal laws.
if judge says "you caused no harm, parents not pressing charges and had very good reason to act like this therefor you will be just getting a slap on cheek, you are relived from duty for 1 week and gonna work under supervision for a month, case dismissed"
goverment has rights to dismiss any charge that is not charged by other people, they just choose to not do it
Every person in the city should have protested in front of the HQ ! That could have been their child, their grandchild, their niece or nephew !
Everyone, including you would've been up in arms if the fire truck crashed and the baby was further injured or even killed. Then you would be citing negligence on the part of this chief, the family would've sued the fire station, the chief and the city (and won) and now the tax payers are on the hook for another multi million dollar payout. The rules are there to avoid that lawsuit. I don't agree with it, it's just fact. If judges and Juries would do a better job at throwing BS lawsuits out, this wouldn't be an issue.
Doctor: “Sorry, it’s against policy to treat a burn victim that has not been properly transported. Please take the child back to the scene and call for another ambulance.”
I’m in ems. And your wrong
what he did is amazing and I’m proud of that firefighter and what he did. Until you know what it it’s like to see people suffer like that you can’t understand. Plus that kid need treatment that’s something that can’t wait .
If that was your child with the burns believe me you would have a very different perspective.
@@michiganscountrygirl6630 An EMS should be intelligent enough to spot sarcasm.
If those politicians showed up at hospital in life or death critical condition. Then Dr. Said sorry can't treat you till paperwork filled out. Oh I don't have insurance info go hame and get it. They would sure change policy very quickly. Or if it was their loved one.
@@generalralph6291 may she rest in pieces.
"The EMS said they were nearby" and im sure they said that 15 minutes before, again at 10, and once more at 5
The drive thru was moving slow that night.
@@Dog-ManTribe - that's the American system. You can't blame the little people at the bottom doing their job.
The problem is people writing the rules who have never done the job. Nothing but respect for the captain .
@Hydin Biden exactly
@Hydin Biden nailed it.
Yeah, can we please get these people in the same room with the parents of that 2 year old burn victim???
Couldn’t have said it any better!!
@common since The fear of that ultimately hurts everyone.
It's just insane that there was a large number of people that genuinely went "how dare you try to take care of this 2 year old burn victim instead of letting them sit there festering in their wounds in agonizing pain while the kid's parents could do nothing but watch".
It’s called a sop “standard operating procedure” that creates a guideline for how to operate in foreseen situations, but guess what? Waiting 24 mins for paramedics isn’t standard, nor foreseen (hopefully) at that point, you make the best decision with what info you have (if he knew the paramedics where seconds out, he would likely have made a different call, but chances are he’d been hearing “there almost there” for the last 20 or so mins.) so you use all that fancy training and risk reward analysis that you’ve spent 100’s if not 1000’s of hours, getting pounded into you thick skull and do the best you can. Hats off to you capt. You did what’s best for the patient, not the bureaucratic loons that are worried more about liability then saving a two year old. Walk tall,stand proud.
Where I live, 24 minutes for an ambulance is lucky
My mother had a seizure and collapsed unconscious when I was in high school, called 911 and it took an hour for the ambulance to get to the house
Then they got lost on the way to the hospital because they had a disagreement on what was the right way to go
@@RagingBadger68 I'm going to assume you're in a low density rural area. I'm in a medium density rural area, and the ambulance service agreement specifies 15 minute response time or better. (barring extenuating circumstances)
@@kenbrown2808 in a town with 10,000 people
@@RagingBadger68 well that sucks hope your mothers ok
@@Fuzefromr6 she’s alright now, she’d had a stroke so the seizure was apparently par for the course, but fortunately it was an isolated event
He should be given a medal for saving her life. That's when policy becomes the end all, being so afraid of a lawsuit that we lose our humanity.
He made a command decision in an emergency situation and they gig him for it. Not the fire service I became a part of 34 years ago. Where is the IAFF? “The duty to act”. Shits gone insane. If he has Go Fund Me I’ll come back and post it.
Gotta love bureaucracy
He may have made the command decision... But he made the wrong decision. He made the emotional decision instead of the calm and calculated decision.
@@DominickWalenczak Helping a child get medical treatment sooner = wrong decision?
@@DominickWalenczak (Apologies, this is a wall of text. Feel free to ignore it, no TL:DR from me) Sometimes emotional decisions are more effective than calculated ones. This is a variable with many factors to include, even forgetting the large bill that would most likely be sent to the parents of the burn victim for a paramedic vehicle. Logically he made the most effective cost based decision as well as emotional after waiting 20 minutes for a vehicle that had been dispatched to help alleviate a small child's pain. The calm calculated decision would have thought "It's more cost effective to simply go there immediately upon finishing checking up on what's necessary here" which is most likely the case, if he's willing to assist a young child who's in more pain than you might be able to imagine. I personally have had to take care of grease fires and am accustomed to several forms of physical burn damage that it's a respectable thing to see somebody helping a toddler in this situation. Please calculate using proper variables, utilize and understand most human pain tolerance along with severity of damage, the age of those being affected along with the future impacts it will have on said human. Logically he shouldn't have done it in this manner if he wanted to keep his job and knew his upper management would do this, however using the logic of common sense, it's probably a good thing to help a child in immense pain. At least that's what I can gather from this information, if you can explain to me in great detail how the calm and calculated decision would work better in this scenario after we add on the human kind's logic of "kindness to others" as a factor. I'm genuinely curious
@@aimaedac personally bring that kid is the logical plan. Decision. Waiting for a team that isn't there yet thats emotional as would have to wait the whole time as that kid suffers, yea no thank you, ill just bring that kid myself, simple
He has done a very heroic job, if I could, I definitely would shake his hands for being such an awesome person and making a great decision in order to save the poor child’s life. He actually deserves to be honored and deserves to get a medal for that job
his superiors need to look that child's parents in the face & tell them why the captain has been disciplined - chicken the lot of them
They need to look at the child, look at her burns!
Agreed
This is bullshit. He should be hailed a hero, and giving a raise. They need to get this rule out of there. Give the hero back his job. He did what he was supposed to do. Save the life of a 2 year old, which he did. If anything the EMS DEPT Should be answering questions as to why it took over 20 minutes to get there and transport the patient. BRAVO WELL DONE... I APPLAUD YOU.. and you shouldn't lose your job over it. Get a life to the people who fired the fireman.. He is a HERO.. LET THE HERO SERVE
What a lot of people are overlooking and the reason we have policies like these is when something like this does happen and things dont turn out well the parents then sue and probably win a big settlement. People are shitty and always look for someone else to blame.
You likely said the answer the EMS took over 20 mins, they could be looking for an out by blaming the fire dpt.
@@Inbal_Feuchtwanger If it was my child and things had ended badly, I would have sued EMS for failing to respond in a timely manner.
@@Inbal_Feuchtwanger Yeah, well that's a risk they all take as first responders. The problem is the system allowing a lawsuit to be carried out against a first responder that did the right thing. The excuse you're making doesn't excuse the fact that they relieved this HERO of his duty for doing the right thing. I get that you're only looking at it from the view of a liability standpoint but, it's still not a viewpoint of a logical person that sees it from a human perspective. I bet this man's superiors would be begging for their child to be transported, by any means necessary, if the EMS were not showing up for 20+ minutes. The fear of a lawsuit? Then they wouldn't show up and transport ANYONE at all.
You said exactly what I want too say 👍👍👍
I stand with the firefighter. Get rid of whoever is complaining and causing him problems.
Exactly..... It's like they are saying how dare he put the well-being of a human being above our rules.... Pretty sick
@@abcdefgabcdefg720 yes it is. His actions saved a life. Where is any fairness in this at all?
@@donnawest1126 I hate to sound like Bieber..... But what do you mean
@@abcdefgabcdefg720 I am saying the firefighter waited over 20 minutes for an ambulance with a baby that had 2nd degree burns then took the child in the vehicle to the hospital. The firefighter should be a hero. The rules would not matter had it been one of their own kids. In some rare cases rules can be broken for the greater good. Saving a child is as good as it gets. What was the hold up with an ambulance? Does anyone know?
@@donnawest1126 Apparently the ambulance that was called was on the other side of town and was stuck in traffic but don't quote me on that I may be wrong.
He may have upset the executives, the politicians & the suits who spend their days clean, in air conditioned offices but he earned the respect of every hardworking grunt in the trenches!
When a person can be disciplined for saving a childs life you know we've hit rock bottom.
For those wondering, as of yesterday (November 1st, 2022), state law has changed as a direct result of this incident, and now allows for this to happen "in special circumstances". It was requested of lawmakers by the OKCFD, and boy was the action fact. As for the fire fighter, as far as I can find, while he did lose his leadership position at the station, he did not receive demotion, termination, any loss of pay, or suspension
A loss of leadership *is* a demotion.
Glad something changed. ❤
@@MasiMojoda A demotion is typically a loss in rank (and usually pay). You can be relieved of duties without your rank being affected.
Should have given that back to him, too.
Thank you for this update!
You can’t put a price on being able to live with yourself.
Amen, brother!
That's a FACT! Wish more people thought like that. Too many who tout the "humanitarian" principles are the same one who turn against those like the fire captain who live the life of true humanitarians and help those in need.
🤘
Perfect response!!
To this gentleman, and you sir are a gentleman, as a firefighter I would want you in our corner, helping our family. What a wonderful thing you did. I have such great respect for you because you didn’t just stand by and allow that baby to suffer and boy was she suffering, you thought of the child before consequences. From the bottom of my of my heart…Thank you! 💐
He only did his job. This is why I hate when politicians run things.
"when the insurance companies run things", fixed that for you
You would not believe the politics that plays into each department. Former Deputy Sheriff here.
You break rules if the rules hurt people. The good thing isn’t always the legal thing.
And vice versa
“rules! Hell there are no rules! We’re trying to get something done around here!” Thomas Edison.
Many have broken the “rules” in the name of humanity from those who hid Jews from the Nazi, those who hid slaves going north to freedom to those who have been arrested for leaving water in the desert for migrants. Good rules are good , bad rules are well sometimes VERY bad. When I was in high school (many many years ago) the local rural fire department was all volunteer. The “rule” required you to buy a $5 fire tag and nail it outside your house. A guys house caught on fire one morning, the fire trucks arrived. No fire tag. The stood and watched it burn to the ground. That was the rule! The fire chief had to leave town quickly! Bad rule.
@Adrian Wilson I didn’t say all rules are bad. Heck the universe has rules. Good rules are good - those that protect human life and rights. Bad rules are bad-those that endanger people or remove freedom. A good society strive to make good rules and change or eliminate bad ones.😊
There was a lot of backlash here in Oklahoma because of this. Many people were extremely mad, upset and disgusted with the his dismissal. Luckily our state leaders heard and listened to everyone and the law was changed the year after is dismissal. Thank you for sharing his story. Sanity Wins! OK Scraps Law That Punished Firefighter for Aiding Burned Child
5.17.2022
True Justice would have them reinstate him with backpay for that year he lost his job.
Yes, Absolutely! I think he should have got back pay and a pay raise. EMSA in Oklahoma County/City are not funded or paid by City or County. They're a private business, I think. So before the law changed; his actions cost EMSA a $1500 paycheck or more since the patient was a burn victim and also a toddler. 😡😡 It's all about the money.
@@kellyw5162That's just all of the US in general. Normal human lives are only tolerated for their worth to create revenue for companies
This is NOT ENOUGH…these situation will re-occur over and over unless the suits at desks making these decisions are called out and punished for inappropriate use of office and frankly, bad attitude.
Sounds like he needs to sue for a few hundred thousand.
This proves one thing, the child that the hero took to the hospital was not the child of the person who disciplined this hero.
He should’ve clocked out “borrowed” the parents car and then he would’ve been a civilian just doing his community a service. But because he’s on the clock, nope, sorry this red tape won’t allow you to save a toddlers life or stop his pain. And then people wonder why we hate bureaucracy
The fire engine has lights and siren.
I'm glad firefighter helped child , sucks he lost his job .I'm just saying if the parents had a car they should have taken themselves but I wasn't there so I don't know what the situation is I hope the firefighter captain gets his job back
He's a SALARY employee, there is no "Clock out"
@@ryanmedic789 yea, because standing around, not getting help is MUCH BETTER, right? Get off your high horse dude.
@@LarryTheBassplayer And what would he done if the kid went into shock? he was not in a position to help the kid and he could have died. Then the family would have sued for causing greater harm.
As someone who has experienced 2nd degree burns, he did the right thing there, that kid was in agony and he didn't want to see the kid suffer any longer than he had to so he got the kid to the hospital. Kudos to him.
It's about the most painful a burn is going to be. Deeper burns kill the nerves so they don't actually hurt as much (but the surrounding less deep burns *definitely* hurt)
I was in a car roll over about 10yrs ago and was luckily able to self extricate and then had to wait in a truck on the side of the road for 3hrs because the only ambulance had been dispatched to the nearest airport for a patient transfer. When the Volunteer Captain told the dispatcher that he was just going to drive me the 20kms back into town to the hospital he was informed that doing so would basically end his time as a fire fighter and if I was found to have suffered any extra injuries he would not have the usual support behind him. I told him not to worry and apologised for wasting his Sunday and proceeded to drift in and out of consciousness for the next couple of hours until the ambulance showed up. Good times.
I'm glad you survived but I feel like in this scenario he SHOULD have not listened to you or his boss. This is so inhumane
This is so inhumane. You could have died! “Yeah, sorry but you going to have to wait an extra hour for an ambulance even though your at risk for brain damage because I can’t legally do that”. Anyone who thinks that’s right should not work in emergency services
I’m so sorry this happened to you in this country. We should do better.
@@VioletEmerald As an FYI, at least in my area of the U.S, the dispatcher isn't the boss. The dispatcher just reiterated what all of us volunteers know, which is that if we do things outside of protocol to save someone then our workers comp won't cover us for injuries, and if something happens to a patient during such an exercise we will be personally financially responsible for any injuries and lawsuits. I.E the Department, which is already on a shoestring budget, will not back us up nor will our Department's insurer.
Now ask me if I am willing to lose my house, my farm, my actual job (Because us Vol FFs have an actual job outside of firefighting and we do this for free on the side) and have my wife, my kids and myself kicked out to the curb so that I can drive a patient to the hospital. The answer is no. Especially in the OP's case where a car rollover is likely going to have C-spine implications and loading him into your own personal car with a C-Collar on is almost guaranteed to expose any C-spine problem.
And yes, the system sucks, but it's not the Vol Fire Captain's fault. He was probably at home eating supper with his family when he got toned out, arrived on-scene and got told EMS had a 3hr ETA. Nothing we can do about that. I've waited 1.5 hours before until ALS arrived onscene. The only thing the Captain MIGHT could've done is call for a medical chopper, but then the OP would have a fat $20,000 medical flight bill waiting for him. And if the injuries were not deteriorating then the Captain can get sued for needlessly calling a chopper.
@@the32712 THIS is the sad truth. Good Samaritan laws will only go so far, and not nearly far enough in some cases.
Alas, no one ever adheres to the adage 'case by case basis'
I love your channel, but knowing from your own mouth that you are SO passionate about your job and helping others makes me have that much more respect for you and what you do. It's greatly appreciated and we need more people like you and the chief in this story!❤
He chose life over regulatons. Mad respect ❤
As my Chief used to say....break a rule or protocol like this...if it saves a life...we'll celebrate the save and worry about discipline, if any later. Kudos Captain....fucking kudos to you. I would have done the exact same thing.
Yup,!. My white hat response...."you did what? Well when the call is done get me a written report of the situation and why you deviate from protocol. I want you to outline your thought process in writing and what factors you considered".
Assuming this is what it appears to be on the surface and he did what he felt was right for the community, and he understands the impact of taking a fire crew and engine out of service and thought through that impact... I might just frame the report as a reminder of the type of officer I expect and the autonomy I entrust them with serving the community together as a team.
Side note. I hope that family and other parents express to the council thier support. We spend a shit ton of money on gear, rigs and staffing.. what good does it do waiting roadside.. And yes, I run an ambulance service in my dept... it should be transport by ambulance... but that implies they are available...
Oh wait... ambulance folks will be arguing there was no clinical difference in outcome.. I say BS. The care needed is is ER, and my medics on fire trucks can drop tubes with the best of them, because they also work the ambulance and more (ER and Flights). Clinical outcome results also have zero consideration of emotional trauma and the effect of just know your being taken care of. Patients are not empty vessels evaluated of data... how relieved do you think that family was....
Now, I don't want to encourage this type of response. Fire trucks are not ambulances. I would have felt better grabbing a medic and sticking the patient in a car seat in a command vehicle and running hot to the ER, but who knows there system status at that point. If that's part of the discipline and failure to communicate the situation, that's understandable discipline. If it's for taking action in light of inaction and no better option, then poor leadership.
Holy rant.. I better stop.
@@chrisj9008 much respect. I'm not a fire fighter or in EMS. If you are out of service waiting or out of service driving to the hospital it seems you are out of service either way. If you are 5 minutes from the hospital it seems you could be closer to getting free by taking that path instead of continuing to wait.
@@randyogburn2498 yup, what's the system effect. I have seen fire apparatus sit roadside waiting for a tow truck for an hour rather than just pushing a car off the road. That's why I specifically always say we serve the community not the citizen.
More often than not the hard decisions are the one best for the community as a whole and not always the solo citizen. That does not exclude us from we doing everything we can for a single citizen whenever we can.
I didn't get the impression from the news article it was life threatening but otherwise I totally agree. No parent should have to watch their child suffer
Yup, Fuck the COC not standing behind there cap. Probably wouldn’t have cancelled Med and asked for an als rendezvous, but the guy put a human life before politics. I’d be proud to work his truck
The man will able to look in the mirror every morning and know he did the right thing. Solid work brother.
There are rules, and then there is right and wrong. The rules are supposed to help the worst of us to do right, but they are incomplete because you can't predict every possible scenario when you write them. That means that the rules will only be right in the context of the system in wich they were created. When the system does not preform as expected, the rules fail us. And when that happens we survive because the very best of us rise above the rules and follow their hearts with the purest intent. My heart goes out to this man!
His heart stepped over the rulebook in an emergency situation with a child. You really cannot fault him in any way for that. Exceptions can and must be made. Bravo to that brave man.
He should be rewarded..what is wrong with those officials. He is an emergency personnel and did what he needed to do in an emergency. God bless you.
Not to mention the ambulances were held up for some strange reason.
THEY HAVE BROWN EYES FROM HAVING THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It kinda hurts the heart that firefighters don’t just have to fight to save all of us, but they also have to fight these idiot bullies treating him like he’s been called to the principals office. So proud of all of you!
One word: bureaucracy.
Or better: bureaucrasy
@common since yup
i wonder how many other fire departments think of this as a christmas present for them, and will offer him a job. he sounds amazing
I’m sure the parents watching their child writhe in pain from being burned for 20 plus minutes must’ve felt like an eternity.
EMSA is just mad they didn’t get to bill the family.
True story. It’s probably why they snitched
I think this is the real reason. Whenever something monumentally evil happens, it always comes back to money.
@@MolecularMachine EMSA is just a badly ran company altogether. EMSA in Tulsa is slightly better than OKC though
EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING always comes back to money with the government, it the stupidest thing ever. Do they even have souls?
@@renn0k402 but the gorvenment didn't own that ambulance it was a private ambulance who are the ones who snichted most likly cos they are the ones who profit off people calling them.
I use to be a voluntary Search and Rescue. We were told to never transport no matter what. Rescue is called when things go wrong, rules are great but the fact that rescue is dispatched means the normal went wrong. Give this guy a raise, he did his job and the ambulance companies job too. We need more like him.
He saved a life on Christmas Eve, why is he getting this, he should be awarded for that idea
Because that’s what the fire service is turning into. A bunch of back stabbing protocols cook book hero’s.
@@ryanmedic789 no, he is being disciplined because he followed a stupid rule until his conscience would no longer allow him to follow it. Burn injuries are life threatening, even a small one can easily lead to serious infection. The only thing he did wrong was waiting 20+ minutes. He should have told the parents after 5 minutes to get the kid to the hospital while they worked on the fire. Even without speeding the kid would have been at the hospital before the emts arrived on the scene. Bureaucracy and frivolous lawsuits are what caused this. People that don’t have experience in the field, and their lawyers, dictating what should or should not be done just to avoid liability.
@@ryanmedic789 first off, if you were a paramedic for that long you would have seen patients transported in many different ways besides by ambulance. Secondly this happened in Oklahoma City, not Canada. So everything you have to say after that means nothing. Have a nice day, enjoy your lack of freedom.
@@ryanmedic789 I don’t give a shit what you feel the need to do or not do. I wasn’t questioning whether or not you were a paramedic. If you misunderstood what I was saying, you are either stupid or you are being defensive because you know what you said isn’t entirely right. You are attempting to use your anecdotal expertise while also applying it to a country you aren’t from. You layered mistakes on mistakes. Your problem, not mine. You have enough problems in your own country, you don’t need to be worrying about ours. A great Canadian professor has said in the past, “clean your room.” Maybe you should read the book before offering advice to others.
@@ryanmedic789 stick to Canada. You opinion means nothing.
BIG FRIGGIN DEAL. HE SAVED A LITTLE CHILD LIFE. NEEDS HIS JOB BACK.
Or, perhaps not. Personal sacrifice like this brings this matter to attention and maybe even get the policies changed. I am sure the good people of OK will see to it that his next job is an upgrade.
Yep
"The following guidelines should be followed at all firefighting and emergency scene operations, ." These are guidelines; nothing can replace the experience & decision making of a seasoned officer.
exacly they are guild lines. NOT LAW
It also says "should" instead of "must". That could be a loophole. 😊
More guidelines than actual rules, one might say
My Grandmother always said. "IF you can DO!". perfect example right there. He knew the exact repercussions of his actions, but the life and pain of a child mattered more than any of them. This reminds me of that lifeguard that got fired because he saved a drowning victim outside of his designated zone.
As a father, i would have praised that man who took the child to the hospital.
And what if he would have cause the kid to die by getting into an accident? They would have demanded that captain be fired and put in prison for disobeying rules. They would have lawyered up immediately!
@@MrGamecatCanaveral you dont know that - besides that's a lousy argument to not save a baby
@@PixelThorn oh I do. I know paramedics who have been sued. I've read reports where medics and firefighters get sued for not following protocols. This guy got lucky and the kid lived. It could have been worse.
@@MrGamecatCanaveral what is your point?
@@MrGamecatCanaveral your hinging your argument on the chance that the firetruck could have gotten in an accident. Well so can ambulances, and i dont expect it would end any better for a toddler patient. Besides, how often do firetrucks get in accidents and in particular what are the actual chances that one would on that specific day. Existing is a risk, everything we do comes with risks, saying we should do nothing because theres a risk is just dumb, then no ome would ever do anything.
As a little baby (4-7 months) i was burned severely with boiling oil and had third degree burns, i was rushed to a hospital by a police officer (im not certain if it was my mom who drove me or the officer but im fairly certain it was an officer) my life was saved because of the officer who took both me and my mom to the hospital. If that officer was not there i would have died waiting for an ambulance. Im so sorry for the kid who went through the same thing as me, and i hate the fact that the firefighter lost his job because he saved a little boys life. In summary, fuck the station that fired him he is an American icon and should be given the medal of honor
Your comment deserves more likes than this. I hope they change their damn policies, otherwize more people are gonna die including children.
@@mythicalslugbeam130 agreed.
I have a strong feeling that it wasn’t the station that fired him. This screams top down interference.
When I was in high school a 14 year old freshmen walked into the school nurse's office complain of a bad head ache and feeling "really weird."
The nurse took one look at the girl and knew right away she didn't have time to wait for an ambulance. She put the girl into her own car and drove her to the ER, speeding, running red lights and stop signs, and got the girl to the hospital intime to save her life.
She was having a stroke and would have died if the nurse called an ambulance.
What the nurse did was *VERY* against not only school rules, it was against the law.
But this was in 1986, so instead of punishing the nurse, they honored her.
Sometimes, circumstances override the rules and even the law.
Did you know *ANYONE* can run red lights and disregard speed limits and stop signs provided there is an actual emergency.
You have to be careful, but it is not illegal in an emergency.
Don't drive recklessly, be careful, but you can break the rules sometimes.
Great story, but not sure why you felt the need to say, "but this was in 1986." The US is so large and state policies so different that there is no one standard opinion on how to deal with the situation: that's the whole reason people are outraged, just like they would have been decades ago. Most in the comments can think of an instance where an emergency service disobeyed traffic laws even recently. This sounds like just a bad decision by a few office administrators, not The Entire Government trying to punish this guy.
When we realized I was in labor at 24 weeks, we knew there was no chance of getting an ambulance in time, since we lived 30 minutes from the nearest hospital. My husband did about 80 mph down the highway to get me there. We got into traffic at a red light once we hit town, but realized the car in the next lane was a cop. My husband threw the car in park and jumped out, yelling to the cop what was happening. Turns out there was an unmarked cop car behind us. They gave us an escort through town to the hospital. Our sweet boy was born 5 minutes after we got there. Sadly he was stillborn, but at least we were in the hospital, which means my kids weren't in the room and traumatized any more than they already were, and I had medical people all around. Even though they couldn't do anything to save him, they were there, which means I don't ask the question the rest of my life, 'would he have lived if I'd been at the hospital'. Thank goodness for my husband being skilled at driving, and those cops for thinking quickly to get us across town.
Did you know that if you ask a police officer, if anyone can break traffic laws when there is an actual emergency, that officer would tell you no. Only those with emergency lights on can do so.
Did you know that if you answer that question on your L permit traffic test, you'll fail the exam, if you say its okay to break the laws in an actual emergency?
Did you know that if the girl had died, instead of lived, that the nurse would have been in a completely different set of circumstances?
So, remember, if someone is having an actual emergency and they blow a red light and collide into you... then by your logic, you can't sue them or their insurance, because it was an emergency. Even if they killed your two kids and paralyzed you, when they collided with you. Because they were having an actual emergency.
No. No... No! Anyone who follows this person's advice is not going to get off Scott free, especially if by their actions they cause an emergency. A cop might be willing to escort you to the hospital... after they pull you over and give you a ticket for violating the law, but you are still going to have to pull over otherwise it will be a high speed chase and you'll be facing jail time.
Do the smart thing and plan ahead. The traffic laws are there to protect everyone, and you disregarding them because you didn't plan ahead, and driving like a maniac to avoid an emergency, often causes an emergency. I really wonder how many of those videos online of people blowing the red lights at 30+ the speed limit and cause a massive horrific car accident are people like this person that doesn't plan ahead.
@@mamaseesa3122So very sorry for what you went through, praying for continued healing for your family.🙏🏼💐
But that was life threatening. A second degree burn was not.
Never heard your accent come out so thick, you justknow that respect is genuine
Bruh he literally saved the kids skin. The fact that people are pissed because he chose to save someone instead of wait for the damn ambulance is disgusting.
EMS prolly lost money when they cancelled the call
@@rnman99
And if he wouldn’t have done it, then they would be all over him for letting the child suffer!!! So tired of the constant hypocrites everywhere!!!
Who is "they"? It would be the public getting mad at him in that case, not the department and city. You're conflating two different groups of people and crying hypocrisy.
Must be transplants down there too
@@VogtTD No, actually sfergel is not. Because when the public got pissed and came after the upper staff "they" would throw everyone else under the bus passing the blame. It happens all the time.