In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:47-Derek’s experimentation with anabolic steroids at a young age 0:10:28-Acquiring steroids from underground labs & the potential long-term fertility concerns early in his bodybuilding career 0:15:56-Backstory on More Plates, More Dates & Derek’s unique ability to blend scientific knowledge with personal observation 0:21:23-Growth hormone-from extreme use-cases to the more typical-& the misconception that it’s the “elixir of life” 0:29:34-Growth hormone 101: definition, where it comes from, & the challenges of measuring it 0:41:43-Does exogenous growth hormone compromise one’s ability to make endogenous growth hormone? 0:43:51-Use of growth hormone in restoration of tissue during periods of healing 0:51:45-Growth hormone-releasing peptides to increase endogenous GH: various peptides, risks, benefits & comparison to exogenous growth hormone 1:07:12-Role of growth hormone in building muscle & burning fat, as well as its effects on sleep & daytime lethargy 1:15:00-Evolution of drug use in the sport of bodybuilding 1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes? 1:33:20-Death of bodybuilders 1:42:15-Complex interplay of hormones, & the conversion of testosterone into metabolites like DHT & estrogen 1:52:23-Post-finasteride syndrome & how Derek successfully treated his hair loss 2:07:55-Testosterone replacement therapy: compelling use-cases, side effects, & optimal dosing schedules 2:28:56-Aromatase inhibitors to suppress estrogen, & the misconceptions around estrogen in men 2:34:38-Other hormones beyond testosterone for male sex hormone replacement 2:38:45-History of anabolic compounds, & the differing effects of various anabolic testosterone derivatives & related drugs 2:44:24-Use of SARMs by bodybuilders 2:51:53-Anabolic steroid & testosterone regimens of professional bodybuilders & the downstream consequences 3:01:20-Challenge of accurate hormone testing in the presence of anabolic steroids & supplements 3:04:10-Use of Clomid, hCG, & enclomiphene 3:18:37-Concerns about fertility: comparing the use of testosterone & hCG 3:31:33-Use of BPC-157 peptide for healing injuries
Peter, I’ve just been on Enclomiphene 25mg ED for the past 12 months. I’m more than happy To have a chat with you about my experiences with it if you’d like . Kind Regards Craig
UGL is not some guy. The steroids you buy online are from India and china. They're manufactured just like normal prescriptions. Its just not regulated over there like it is here.
EXCELLENT PODCAST !!!!!! 11/10. Would it be possible to edit in charts, graphs, images of some of the things talked about for future episodes ? Such as chemical pathways, MOA images etc. Thank you for the knowledge, god bless !
3.5 hours felt like it flew by! Had a blast, and what an honor to be featured on The Drive. I've been a member for years myself, and can't say enough positive things about Peter and his work. I really hope you guys enjoy the episode. I hosted Peter on my podcast as well and will be posting that next Monday.
Supraphysiological levels of knowledge efficaciously blasted into my existence bro. 2 of my favorite health specialists finally getting together, I love it. Looking forward to part 2
@meghan42 He's not a specialist dude. You can't fake a medical degree or just wing it... doesn't matter how smart you sound or how many scientific papers you read.
@@mugshotmarley Thats just how he explains it everywhere I've seen him. You need to have a baseline level of knowledge about hormone signaling to really appreciate his responses.
@@mugshotmarleythat’s pretty much how he is all the time, it’s not him overdoing it, just his personality of enjoying explaining and expanding on points.
@mugshotmarley what a strange comment, if he was over playing it the certified doctor he's speaking to would surely pull him up. This is literally how he talks about these topics all the time. Justbsay you can't comprehend it, it's ok non of us do at this level.
Hope you know “Derek” got ALL his information from Victor Black…WHICH HE NEVER TELL ANYONE OR HE WOULD BE BROKE STILL!!! Victor Black is the REAL PED EDUCATOR
You're quite capable of doing a round table with these two gentlemen and perhaps Huberman as well. Bump this for Steve to get on one of these podcasts sometime!
@@misteratoz100% on point. I’ve defended Derek and his doc (Hotchkis sp?) at Marek multiple times for this.. we don’t learn (nor would we need to learn for our populations) this kind of esoteric information in our training. This is the kind of knowledge only passion and experience get you. Even endo doesn’t deal with optimizing a healthy population. They’re well trained in treating pathology like DM and the like, however I’ve seen TRT done terribly by classically trained endos.. even Peter, trained in surgery, likely understands the nuances of TRT much better than the bulk of endos. Again, at no fault to them.. it just isn’t in our training.
@@Joseph1NJAll three of the people I know who are on TRT are having their treatments mismanaged by their endocrinologists or urologists. All of these “experts” seem to think it’s appropriate to give 75mg-125mg of test-c every two weeks. A lot of doctors are just trying to check the boxes so they can get through their patients for the day.
I really admire how Peter didn't pretend to know everything in this area. Instead, he sincerely, courageously, and politely expanded his own and his audiences knowledge with Derek's expertise. This is a tremendous podcast session 🙏
It's also really great to see a Dr like Peter willing to set aside title and rank and listen to someone who is obviously dedicated and well read but hasn't studied as a Dr. Also really shows how smart Derek is
Yes... Plus I also think Peter is very smart..... Knows what he thinks the answers to be.... But regards Derek as a deep expert on this subject so Peter is silently measuring his answers while taking Derek s as data that either confirms Peter's belief or signals Peter needs to rethink.
Absolutely, Peter expertly sets the stage and carefully probes the knowledge from the lens of the likes that rarely step to the spotlight and talk open and honest, and as technical as Derek. I respect Derek in his knowledge and his willingness to be honest with his experience in these areas that are not certifiable in society.
@@DeusExMachina50 Medical education does not cover hormones and the such in the depth that you know about PEDS. So docs not in endocrinology likely know less than Derrick about this stuff unless they teach themselves which is essentially what Derrick has done
Derek is one of the most responsible commentators on these topics. He doesn't glorify or scaremonger, he gives facts where they exist and speculates in an intelligent and responsible manner.
Probably one of the best 2 content creators in this space, amazing to see you two together. The bro science- evidence based combo makes for some funny moments lol
This conversation is yet another reminder to me of how grateful I am that HIGHLY educated and prolific people come together to share their knowledge, passion, views on confusing topics with clarity and grace. Thank you Peter and Derek!!🙏💜 🤗
As incredibly impressive that Derek's expertise is, he would admittedly defer to his friend Laith Rex (RIP) on many topics. This podcast and the comment section really makes me understand how incredible Laith was
His real name was actually Laith Algaz. "Rex" was just part of his stage name "Leo Rex". I couldn't agree more though. His knowledge and dedication were truly one of a kind
Dr. Attia, Please! do a part two of your interview. I follow both you and Derek and this interview was out of this world. Nice to see how people have things in common and can provide the public information that enhances and educates their lives.
Strange to me that he comes all the way to Austin and when they film they don't have any wide shots with both of them. It's nice sometime to see reactions.
I love that Peter judges Derek as a legitimate source on this stuff because of the content of what he says, not based simply on whether or not he is a doctor or has a degree in it. Those indicators of knowledge are often important, but not the be all-end all of people who can contribute meaninfully to this discussion.
I’m so impressed with the depth of knowledge Derek has. He spews the stuff out like gospel. He should be a resource for Peter they would make a great team.
Certanly this is one of the best interviews with Derek. Mr Peter Attia is so respectful of what Derek is going to say, having the humbleness to lissen and learn something else outside of the medical field is very pleasing to watch. Unfortunally, almost every doctor is so narrow minded and most of them get offended if You give your opinion on some topic related to medicine. First thing they say ¿Are You a doctor? That bothers me a lot.
I'm glad Derek set the record straight about 70s bodybuilders. The drug abuse was rampant, but no growth or insulin. They also came off completely from time to time.
This is a great advert for self education. Derek holding an in depth discussion with a guy whos at the top of the medical field despite zero formal education. Great talk!
Almost like how LeBron James plays pro basketball, but people would ask him about business. 😂 Like why?? Just because he has experience, success and knowledge in business?? He didn't go to school for it.
I am very glad that this discussion happened. I think it probably raised Dr. Attia’s awareness about the alternative health care options that are broadly used in the community as he has a very niche patient population. I am glad that he is interested in learning about strategies used for aesthetics, body building, and by many active gym goers/ fitness influencers. Derek is well aware of this world of peptides and other compounds used to improve aesthetics often under the guise of or supporting health. I respect both of their perspectives as they definitely serve different demographics with quite a bit of cross over in some areas. Thanks, guys! I am an avid fan of both of you!
Dave Palumbo, who was known for his distended stomach, gives a far better explanation of why this occurs and what causes it: 1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes?
Great pod! You guys rocked it! I probably only understood half of it. Derek, you're a beast when it comes to homrone function, production and impact. Awesome!!!
@@BigDees19I'm sure that you are capable of, with no formal education, discussing androgenic alopecia, C reactive proteins, the side effects of androgens and estrogenic metabolites, aromatase inhibitors, the details of the relevant genetic factors, and the details of CBC testing with one of the world's most recognizable doctors in a public forum while still retaining your credibility.
@@rockroll7649 😆so you learned all that from him ? 😂 When there's actual medical professional channels out there and plenty of books, that talk and are the real deal like Peter is. Or ya know maybe school too? But I also learned everything myself as well. I know the basic information he does. That's all basic biology bro 😂. But hey if knowing simple cbc complete blood is so omg to you then cool rockroll. This is literally a steroid gym douche. That' tries way to hard to sound smart and got lucky thats all since there wasn't many channels like him for gym douches so his blew up that's it it could of been anyone else.
Crazy. These guys and their knowledge of endocrinology …what the hell is my doctor doing? He knows nothing close to this without his cellphone. Seen him google, not even use the apps. Smh. He makes soo much more cash and knows f a
So interesting. I also follow Derek who gave the initial education to absorb this detailed conversation. Part 2 sounds even better because it's the actionable info I can use to get leaner - not for bodybuilding - but for general fitness. Thanks guys...
Mk677 is orally active bc it’s not a peptide like all the others listed which are extremely delicate. It’s interesting bc it shows higher levels of IR not equivalent to say the same IGF1 response from X dose of injectable GH. It’s fluid retention is also disproportionate. This all needs to be taken into account when managing your client. Also unlike GH which nearly always improves sleep, w/ Mk677 about 50% experience some level of sleep disturbance, like nightmares/vivid dreams etc. making it less desirable for a key demographic (children)..🤔its solo response in older pts (55-65yo) was surprisingly good w/ IGF1 increases 55-88%.
Bodybuilding community knows more then most doctors about this stuff. Yes theres stupid bro science. But they test on themselves not rats. We all here what killed who and what doesnt. Were still learning unfortunately is all. And we keep pushing the envelope with all things. GH, steroids, insulin, peptides, sarms, you name it. And 6-8 ius a day of gh that derek did the guy says wow those are high doses. Lol. Its nothing yet. Try 18-20 like Chase Irons
Fascinating discussion. I think I almost understood 7 minutes of it but intetesting on every level. I have to admit, I 'm surprised with all the talk about treatments for balding that neither of you mentioned Low Level Laser treatment. It's FDA approved and no side effects and as effective as the drugs. I bought an LLLT device in 2003, before FDA approval and it was one of the best purchases i ever made. It definitely works. I still use it and I still have hair. All the men on my dads side are bald. I am not. Anybody looking for a safe treatment for alopecia, i highly recommend it. And the earlier you start, the more hair you'll regain and keep. Great show!
You missed an obvious conversation about the TRIIM trial for Thymus and longevity, which is based on GH and DHEA use! Please talk about this in near future podcasts!
oh shit "slack jawed-did anabolics once and has the same TWO OLD photos he's used the ENTIRE SPAN of his TH-cam career-goes to the gym on a collab and makes an embarrassing video exposing lack of basic knowledge and previous roid bought physique-goes on Rogan as the dryest guest ever cause recycled thumbnails of celebs and influencers natty or not vids of either that are OBVIOUSLY not natty only get you so far" Derek interview. HOW FASCINATING. no. This dudes shtick ran dry years ago.
Aortic dissections more common in CT disorders like EDS’s, Marfans syndrome, or 2ndary to HTN; remember GH/IGF1 improves collagen synthesis (%of each type I’d have to double check but certain AAS like Nandrolones specifically really improves prepro-coll.3 levels by ~277%) & should reduce dissections. But keep in mind, Acromegalics may have other endocrine abnormalities (Test/E2/E1,T4/T3, increased binding proteins etc) which could offset the findings.
@@leelunk8235 I’m not a Democrat dude. Quite the opposite (I’ve had a strong dislike for them and have for 20 years). I was offered the vaccine early because I work in remote communities that were at high risk. I’m in health care and there had been multiple youth suicides and felt I needed to be there as a professional and to provide for my family. I regret it every day. My wife and kids didn’t get it (thankfully) because of the damage it did to me. It meant they were effectively kept out of public life for two years (I live in Canada). I suffered severe neurological damage from the vax and as a result spoke out against the it, but was gaslit by the health system and couldn’t get treatment. Eventually, I found a doctor who had some success treating vaccine injuries. The HGH healed my neurological symptoms and the TRT brought the rest of my health back to normal. The doctor who prescribed them probably saved my life. Also, TRT isn’t roids. They are used to restore normal levels of testosterone if used correctly. I’m left wondering why you’re so sensitive on the issue of “roids” when you seem to know nothing about TRT. You made assumptions about me and only revealed yourself to be an ass. Regardless, I hope you are well and recover from the high cost of this current administration. It’s staggering the damage they’ve inflicted on your country. Peace.
Fascinating stuff. I had no idea compounding pharmacies were basically glorified supplement manufacturing for pharamcy grade drugs. A couple random things derek brought up that were very insightful to somethings i have been wondering about. I guess I'm a nerd, i watched and listened adamantly to the entire video almost in 2 sittings and I don't even lift bro.
Why aren't US doctors prescribing Nebido (testosterone undecanoate)? I've been on a 8-9 week injection interval TRT regimen for six years now with great results and no sides. Super stable levels with way fewer injections than cypopnate or enanthate.
One word: profit. The foundation that drives all things Bid Pharma does. They're not interested in what's good for you. They're interested in what's good for them.
So im not a body builder ,but i took mild dosages (500-750. Mcg per week ,of a variety of steroids for about 8 years with mild pauses in between like a month or two off.Ive been working out since age 29 ,i started steroids at age 42 and stopped cold Turkey at about age 50 .Took zero drugs to promote natural hormone production and it took me about 7-9 months to go back to normal or feel normal,If this info helps .So im the real life proof that a man can recover at his middle ages ,but i do eat very healthy in general and very different.What do i mean by that.I have a craving for nuts for example and raw vegetables.Premium organic usually unsalted raw nuts like walnuts, pistachios,pecans,a little cashew,hazel nuts,some peanuts and raw almonds.I eat Mediterranean food and lots of cheese like feta, Parmesan,rogano,raw green onions and a lot of herbs like orageno ,black pepper, Cheyenne paprika basil and olive oil daily etc
Taking DHEA changed my life. I'm 46 and for years I've been feeling exhausted all the time, moody, anxious and irritable. Since I began taking DHEA (50 mg) daily - except weekends - it's like I got the old me back. My mood is fine, I'm calm and my energy levels are high. I don't think it's changed anything regarding my physiology, but quality of life has skyrocketed.
I love the fact that Dr attia, with his traditional medical background, will delve into these topics that most doctors are clueless about.This is fantastic. The fact that derrick is even in the same room with Peter, goes to show that derrick is the real deal. Highest level of Respect to both of them !
No issues with finasteride after 10 years of use. Minoxidil is almost useless in my experience. Zero issues as noted and I believe this will add protection for BPH. Finasteride does not eradicate DHT, just reduces it to a degree it. Derek is correct. DHT is mainly needed during puberty and less so afterward.
Wondering if the lethargy from growth hormone is a result of the increase in IGF-1 initiating a parasympathetic response to the insulin growth factor. It makes sense since insulin suppresses cortisol reducing sympathetic activity and as a result initiating parasympathetic activity. Same thing happens with breaking a fast.
Twice now Peter has raised the Finesteride syndrome but he has not clearly explained what the concern is? He has been nebulous about some irreversible damage but I can’t seem to find where he explains it. Is it the masking of the PSA value, is it the retrograde ejaculation? Both which do have workarounds?
Anecdotal accounts of patients experiencing irreversible side effects seemed to be his biggest concern, the risk ratio for a cosmetic issue which he personally doesn't seem to be as interested in. Blocking off really key enzymatic processes in the body leads to disrupted neurosteroid production maybe something else he is concerned about. He did seem ominous about it without really mentioning why, just personal opinion?
@@lh5520the problem is, the anecdotal reports are just that… there’s absolutely no evidence that finasteride causes permanent side effects. Absolutely no evidence that the drug effects neurosteroids. Many of the anti-finasteride crowed are complete conspiracy theorists.
Because it’s a growing issue in the medical industry. And many major doctors are going against it because of how many guys it makes permanently impotent. Gave me perm ED. And treatments don’t work for many guys like tadalafil and viagra completely ineffective
I know a guy that gave his kid HGH at the age of 13. Kid did end up taller than his mom and dad and did go on to play D1 basketball but I’m not sure how much the HGH contributed to his height. I also know a doctor that wad giving himself HGH and six months later he was dead from it
@@dodgeram5098 WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE AUTOPSY..THOSE NEVER LIE..A DOCTOR WOULDNT TAKE HIGH AMOUNTS OF HGH..IM SKEPTICAL..ANTIAGING AMOUNTS OF HGH DONT KILL ANYONE
I had a friend who’s growth plates were closing at 12yrs old, he was very VERY small. His projected height was gonna be 5’. His parents put him on “growth hormones” and he ended up 6’2”! Seems cool to me!
Derek is one of my favorite people on TH-cam. He is unbelievably knowledgeable. Just him talking motivates me to go the gym😂 Been watching his channel for years.
I'm 51 years old and I've been on gear for 7 years . I could careless about the risk . I'm an adult . My parents stopped telling me what to do after high school and I joined the US Army at 18 . Like going to War is totally safe . SMH ! I'm sick and tired of our Government telling adults your not allowed to that to your body . But it's totally ok to be a fat ass eating yourself to death . Right ?
I am 50, just started trt, first time. Fuck everyone, I won't let a man in his 30s push me aside professionally and personally. I am looking forward to my 50s and I haven't reached my optimal self. I already have children and I am married. I wanna get healthy and stronger than ever
If hgh is working as a muscle enhancer. Broderick Chavez gave a spot on example. It’s synergistic, take for example the late 80’s begin 90’s. Body builders came on stage with at least 80 pounds more. Combination of hgh, slin and anabolics. You just talked about it naming all the great names. 1:16:20
I'm approaching my senior years so I have little interest in PED's but it was still a very interesting conversation. This is without a doubt my favorite podcast. Dr. Attia's skills as a communicator and interviewer are among the very best. Not to mention his knowledge base and intellect. When you consider the other demands on his time, I don't know how he does it.
@@danielwhyte9172 I don't know enough to say either way. I feel pretty good so if it's not broken.... That said I'm sure it would put some pep in my step. But alas, these are first world concerns.
In this episode, we discuss:
0:00:47-Derek’s experimentation with anabolic steroids at a young age
0:10:28-Acquiring steroids from underground labs & the potential long-term fertility concerns early in his bodybuilding career
0:15:56-Backstory on More Plates, More Dates & Derek’s unique ability to blend scientific knowledge with personal observation
0:21:23-Growth hormone-from extreme use-cases to the more typical-& the misconception that it’s the “elixir of life”
0:29:34-Growth hormone 101: definition, where it comes from, & the challenges of measuring it
0:41:43-Does exogenous growth hormone compromise one’s ability to make endogenous growth hormone?
0:43:51-Use of growth hormone in restoration of tissue during periods of healing
0:51:45-Growth hormone-releasing peptides to increase endogenous GH: various peptides, risks, benefits & comparison to exogenous growth hormone
1:07:12-Role of growth hormone in building muscle & burning fat, as well as its effects on sleep & daytime lethargy
1:15:00-Evolution of drug use in the sport of bodybuilding
1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes?
1:33:20-Death of bodybuilders
1:42:15-Complex interplay of hormones, & the conversion of testosterone into metabolites like DHT & estrogen
1:52:23-Post-finasteride syndrome & how Derek successfully treated his hair loss
2:07:55-Testosterone replacement therapy: compelling use-cases, side effects, & optimal dosing schedules
2:28:56-Aromatase inhibitors to suppress estrogen, & the misconceptions around estrogen in men
2:34:38-Other hormones beyond testosterone for male sex hormone replacement
2:38:45-History of anabolic compounds, & the differing effects of various anabolic testosterone derivatives & related drugs
2:44:24-Use of SARMs by bodybuilders
2:51:53-Anabolic steroid & testosterone regimens of professional bodybuilders & the downstream consequences
3:01:20-Challenge of accurate hormone testing in the presence of anabolic steroids & supplements
3:04:10-Use of Clomid, hCG, & enclomiphene
3:18:37-Concerns about fertility: comparing the use of testosterone & hCG
3:31:33-Use of BPC-157 peptide for healing injuries
Thank you both 🏆
Peter, I’ve just been on Enclomiphene 25mg ED for the past 12 months.
I’m more than happy
To have a chat with you about my experiences with it if you’d like .
Kind Regards
Craig
UGL is not some guy. The steroids you buy online are from India and china. They're manufactured just like normal prescriptions. Its just not regulated over there like it is here.
EXCELLENT PODCAST !!!!!! 11/10. Would it be possible to edit in charts, graphs, images of some of the things talked about for future episodes ? Such as chemical pathways, MOA images etc. Thank you for the knowledge, god bless !
I follow below
1) enclomiphene
2) Luteolin
3) PORTULACA OLERACEA -seeds which has shown to successfully restore hpta ....
4) AC262 for crouch muscle growth
5) MK4,MK7
6) will chew black seed
7) schissandra , i3c, cordyceps, foti, maca,cocoa
8) sumac for antioxidant bomb ...with brocolli salmon soup
9) bromocriptine, bromontane
3.5 hours felt like it flew by! Had a blast, and what an honor to be featured on The Drive. I've been a member for years myself, and can't say enough positive things about Peter and his work.
I really hope you guys enjoy the episode. I hosted Peter on my podcast as well and will be posting that next Monday.
@MorePlatesMoreDates There is a real interest from the general audience for more specific discussions with experts like this, I hope you keep this up!
Two goats
Man Derek its crazy to see how far you've come over the years! Congrats man you've always stayed true to yourself!
that was awesome. every young person or even older weight lifters should watch this. appreciate your honesty.
Amazing!
Supraphysiological levels of knowledge efficaciously blasted into my existence bro. 2 of my favorite health specialists finally getting together, I love it. Looking forward to part 2
Hahahah love it
😂😂😂
How many hours per week do you spend looking after your body? And how much money?
Nice bro
@meghan42 He's not a specialist dude. You can't fake a medical degree or just wing it... doesn't matter how smart you sound or how many scientific papers you read.
How a guy with no medical degree can carry a conversation like this with a fully certified Doctor. Way to go Derek!!!
He's over doing it a little, like he's trying to impress. Wish he took it down a notch tbh
@@mugshotmarley Thats just how he explains it everywhere I've seen him. You need to have a baseline level of knowledge about hormone signaling to really appreciate his responses.
@@mugshotmarleythat’s pretty much how he is all the time, it’s not him overdoing it, just his personality of enjoying explaining and expanding on points.
@mugshotmarley what a strange comment, if he was over playing it the certified doctor he's speaking to would surely pull him up. This is literally how he talks about these topics all the time. Justbsay you can't comprehend it, it's ok non of us do at this level.
Hope you know “Derek” got ALL his information from Victor Black…WHICH HE NEVER TELL ANYONE OR HE WOULD BE BROKE STILL!!! Victor Black is the REAL PED EDUCATOR
In before Supraphysiological amounts of views!
Vigorous Views
Not gonna lie, Steve for some reason I thought you were dead fr.
The front double bicep legend himself!
You're quite capable of doing a round table with these two gentlemen and perhaps Huberman as well. Bump this for Steve to get on one of these podcasts sometime!
I'm a board certified internist (IM physician) . I'm 100% sure that Derek knows more about hormones than I do 😅
We're assuming you're not an endocrinologist right?
@@misteratoz100% on point. I’ve defended Derek and his doc (Hotchkis sp?) at Marek multiple times for this.. we don’t learn (nor would we need to learn for our populations) this kind of esoteric information in our training. This is the kind of knowledge only passion and experience get you. Even endo doesn’t deal with optimizing a healthy population. They’re well trained in treating pathology like DM and the like, however I’ve seen TRT done terribly by classically trained endos.. even Peter, trained in surgery, likely understands the nuances of TRT much better than the bulk of endos. Again, at no fault to them.. it just isn’t in our training.
That's because he's never been asked about basic physiology. He just regurgitates shit. He doesn't understand most of what he says 😂
@@DrjohncurryI thought his doc was Kyle Gillett?
@@Joseph1NJAll three of the people I know who are on TRT are having their treatments mismanaged by their endocrinologists or urologists. All of these “experts” seem to think it’s appropriate to give 75mg-125mg of test-c every two weeks. A lot of doctors are just trying to check the boxes so they can get through their patients for the day.
It's nice to see Derek talking to someone who can actually keep up haha
No shit huh!?
I really admire how Peter didn't pretend to know everything in this area. Instead, he sincerely, courageously, and politely expanded his own and his audiences knowledge with Derek's expertise. This is a tremendous podcast session 🙏
It's also really great to see a Dr like Peter willing to set aside title and rank and listen to someone who is obviously dedicated and well read but hasn't studied as a Dr.
Also really shows how smart Derek is
Exactly@@ClintByrne
Yes... Plus I also think Peter is very smart..... Knows what he thinks the answers to be.... But regards Derek as a deep expert on this subject so Peter is silently measuring his answers while taking Derek s as data that either confirms Peter's belief or signals Peter needs to rethink.
Absolutely, Peter expertly sets the stage and carefully probes the knowledge from the lens of the likes that rarely step to the spotlight and talk open and honest, and as technical as Derek. I respect Derek in his knowledge and his willingness to be honest with his experience in these areas that are not certifiable in society.
Probably my favorite Derek podcast!
Peter is always a beast on the mic, but in this one, Derek also really seemed to enjoy it.
He has a knack of getting the best from his host. His interview of Lance Armstrong was the best I've watched
Derek teaching Peter new things about biology is WILD. Love this interview.
Considering Derek is essentially an enthusiast in the field lol
That's literally how good Derek is, the OGs know
@@DeusExMachina50 Medical education does not cover hormones and the such in the depth that you know about PEDS. So docs not in endocrinology likely know less than Derrick about this stuff unless they teach themselves which is essentially what Derrick has done
Self education always outweighs classical education
@@ManjiMachinep
Wow, not expected Derek and Peter 🙂
Right?! First time in ages I am actually going to listen to the entire episode. More of these sorts of collabs.
Derek is one of the most responsible commentators on these topics. He doesn't glorify or scaremonger, he gives facts where they exist and speculates in an intelligent and responsible manner.
The amount of knowledge Derek has from experience and his own research is crazy. Always learn something new from him
Probably one of the best 2 content creators in this space, amazing to see you two together. The bro science- evidence based combo makes for some funny moments lol
This conversation is yet another reminder to me of how grateful I am that HIGHLY educated and prolific people come together to share their knowledge, passion, views on confusing topics with clarity and grace. Thank you Peter and Derek!!🙏💜 🤗
Incorrect, educated people to be exact.
info I would consider superior to any kind of formal education all jam-packed into 3.5hrs and all for free. Pretty remarkable!
As incredibly impressive that Derek's expertise is, he would admittedly defer to his friend Laith Rex (RIP) on many topics. This podcast and the comment section really makes me understand how incredible Laith was
His real name was actually Laith Algaz. "Rex" was just part of his stage name "Leo Rex".
I couldn't agree more though. His knowledge and dedication were truly one of a kind
Laith loved Peter’s podcast too. He would be proud
Dr. Attia, Please! do a part two of your interview. I follow both you and Derek and this interview was out of this world. Nice to see how people have things in common and can provide the public information that enhances and educates their lives.
Strange to me that he comes all the way to Austin and when they film they don't have any wide shots with both of them. It's nice sometime to see reactions.
I love that Peter judges Derek as a legitimate source on this stuff because of the content of what he says, not based simply on whether or not he is a doctor or has a degree in it. Those indicators of knowledge are often important, but not the be all-end all of people who can contribute meaninfully to this discussion.
I’m so impressed with the depth of knowledge Derek has. He spews the stuff out like gospel. He should be a resource for Peter they would make a great team.
That's what you get when a smart person becomes obsessed with a topic and spends their life just learning everything they can about it, all the time.
Certanly this is one of the best interviews with Derek. Mr Peter Attia is so respectful of what Derek is going to say, having the humbleness to lissen and learn something else outside of the medical field is very pleasing to watch. Unfortunally, almost every doctor is so narrow minded and most of them get offended if You give your opinion on some topic related to medicine. First thing they say ¿Are You a doctor? That bothers me a lot.
This was so good, please have Derek back on soon. Looking forward to part two
I'm glad Derek set the record straight about 70s bodybuilders. The drug abuse was rampant, but no growth or insulin. They also came off completely from time to time.
Yeah 70's juiced hard
@justvibing2497 who doesn't?
derek's honesty is so refreshing. younger kids should watch this and learn.
This is a great advert for self education. Derek holding an in depth discussion with a guy whos at the top of the medical field despite zero formal education. Great talk!
So did you study biochem? Nah finance 😂😂😂
Almost like how LeBron James plays pro basketball, but people would ask him about business. 😂 Like why?? Just because he has experience, success and knowledge in business?? He didn't go to school for it.
"So to translate that into English". Lmao. Peter needs to be there when Derek posts his regular videos to translate
I'm not so sure you can determine your child's height based on your own height. I'm 5'2, my husband is 5'8, and my 13 yr old son is 6'3.
The craziest thing about this video is that its a doctor asking questions to a TH-camr.
Shows how much Derek really knows his stuff.
Peter knew everything already just didnt want to make derek sound dumb
@yourDoom8 very funny
2 gems here. The best of both worlds. Great interview
I am very glad that this discussion happened. I think it probably raised Dr. Attia’s awareness about the alternative health care options that are broadly used in the community as he has a very niche patient population. I am glad that he is interested in learning about strategies used for aesthetics, body building, and by many active gym goers/ fitness influencers. Derek is well aware of this world of peptides and other compounds used to improve aesthetics often under the guise of or supporting health. I respect both of their perspectives as they definitely serve different demographics with quite a bit of cross over in some areas. Thanks, guys! I am an avid fan of both of you!
Seems like Peter is just trying to figure out how much gear he should take without having negative consequences. Time to get yuuuuuuge Pete
Wow this is the craziest crossover 🤯 like iron man and captain America teaming up. Excited for this one!
This is the collaboration I need!!!! I am reading outlive and I’ve been a long time mpmd subscriber!!!
3 1/2 hours of a doctor asking how the body works is the most surreal thing I've ever seen
Dave Palumbo, who was known for his distended stomach, gives a far better explanation of why this occurs and what causes it: 1:27:01-What explains the protruding abdomens on some bodybuilders & athletes?
The big V is absolutely why Joe Linder died. He was amazing.
Took me two weeks but finally made it thru the whole vid😂
Derek's most refined, top of his game in this one. Wonder what nootropic stack he was on too.
Great pod! You guys rocked it! I probably only understood half of it. Derek, you're a beast when it comes to homrone function, production and impact. Awesome!!!
6:55 Peter Attia, M.D. -- Derek, more plates more dates
love the channel name, but made me laugh in this context 😂
He should go by "Derek, M.P.M.D."
Maybe it should be "Peter Attia, More Dates "
Derek's IQ must be off the charts. He could be a guest lecturer at any medical school.
😂😂 to talk about steroids and tren ?
@@BigDees19I'm sure that you are capable of, with no formal education, discussing androgenic alopecia, C reactive proteins, the side effects of androgens and estrogenic metabolites, aromatase inhibitors, the details of the relevant genetic factors, and the details of CBC testing with one of the world's most recognizable doctors in a public forum while still retaining your credibility.
@@rockroll7649 😆so you learned all that from him ? 😂 When there's actual medical professional channels out there and plenty of books, that talk and are the real deal like Peter is. Or ya know maybe school too? But I also learned everything myself as well. I know the basic information he does. That's all basic biology bro 😂. But hey if knowing simple cbc complete blood is so omg to you then cool rockroll. This is literally a steroid gym douche. That' tries way to hard to sound smart and got lucky thats all since there wasn't many channels like him for gym douches so his blew up that's it it could of been anyone else.
The freakin' delt lord on The Drive. What timeline are we living in?
Downloaded, can’t wait to listen. Next vigorous Steve please 🙏
Crazy. These guys and their knowledge of endocrinology …what the hell is my doctor doing? He knows nothing close to this without his cellphone. Seen him google, not even use the apps. Smh. He makes soo much more cash and knows f a
So interesting, I am 100% natural, my total Test is 750 but my estradiol is 6 ( high sensitivity) urologist and endocrinologist dismiss my concerns
If you feel good then don’t worry to much, you don’t know what your tissue estradiol concentrations are.
Just one test? Don't worry about short term. But if this is a trend over time then I definitely would start to think of options.
GET ON 750 ESTROGEN PILLS TO BALANCE IT OUT
NEW GAME. Take a shot of Tren everytime they say superphysiological
Always blown away by how much Derek knows
jeez what a crossover.
So interesting. I also follow Derek who gave the initial education to absorb this detailed conversation. Part 2 sounds even better because it's the actionable info I can use to get leaner - not for bodybuilding - but for general fitness. Thanks guys...
Peter asking an accountancy drop out questions most GPs can't answer.
Peter's favourite word: "Ubiquitous" :D
ha, I'd have picked Efficacy (which tbh, is a pretty useful word when talking about treatments
Moral of the story - Kids don't get into this to begin with. Worst case scenario you'll die at 30.
Bro science hit big time.
Mk677 is orally active bc it’s not a peptide like all the others listed which are extremely delicate. It’s interesting bc it shows higher levels of IR not equivalent to say the same IGF1 response from X dose of injectable GH. It’s fluid retention is also disproportionate. This all needs to be taken into account when managing your client. Also unlike GH which nearly always improves sleep, w/ Mk677 about 50% experience some level of sleep disturbance, like nightmares/vivid dreams etc. making it less desirable for a key demographic (children)..🤔its solo response in older pts (55-65yo) was surprisingly good w/ IGF1 increases 55-88%.
The body maintaining 'homeostasis'...
is the point he's struggling so hard to get across😊
(Re hgh vs. IGF1 levels)🙄
Bodybuilding community knows more then most doctors about this stuff. Yes theres stupid bro science. But they test on themselves not rats. We all here what killed who and what doesnt. Were still learning unfortunately is all. And we keep pushing the envelope with all things. GH, steroids, insulin, peptides, sarms, you name it. And 6-8 ius a day of gh that derek did the guy says wow those are high doses. Lol. Its nothing yet. Try 18-20 like Chase Irons
Derek is the Nikola Tesla of Steroid hormones electricity and this podcast gave me a superphysiological headache 😂
Jesus, is this an interview or a Biochem oral exam?
Fascinating discussion. I think I almost understood 7 minutes of it but intetesting on every level.
I have to admit, I 'm surprised with all the talk about treatments for balding that neither of you mentioned Low Level Laser treatment. It's FDA approved and no side effects and as effective as the drugs.
I bought an LLLT device in 2003, before FDA approval and it was one of the best purchases i ever made. It definitely works. I still use it and I still have hair. All the men on my dads side are bald. I am not.
Anybody looking for a safe treatment for alopecia, i highly recommend it. And the earlier you start, the more hair you'll regain and keep.
Great show!
Would you please share the name of your LLLT device?
@@miaash3870I have a Hairmax device. They have more advanced models now compared to 20 years ago when I bought one.
I need to upgrade😅
You missed an obvious conversation about the TRIIM trial for Thymus and longevity, which is based on GH and DHEA use! Please talk about this in near future podcasts!
Dude is holding his own with one of the smartest dudes around. Derrick is legit
oh shit "slack jawed-did anabolics once and has the same TWO OLD photos he's used the ENTIRE SPAN of his TH-cam career-goes to the gym on a collab and makes an embarrassing video exposing lack of basic knowledge and previous roid bought physique-goes on Rogan as the dryest guest ever cause recycled thumbnails of celebs and influencers natty or not vids of either that are OBVIOUSLY not natty only get you so far" Derek interview. HOW FASCINATING.
no. This dudes shtick ran dry years ago.
This man made me go into medschool and I thank him
Aortic dissections more common in CT disorders like EDS’s, Marfans syndrome, or 2ndary to HTN; remember GH/IGF1 improves collagen synthesis (%of each type I’d have to double check but certain AAS like Nandrolones specifically really improves prepro-coll.3 levels by ~277%) & should reduce dissections. But keep in mind, Acromegalics may have other endocrine abnormalities (Test/E2/E1,T4/T3, increased binding proteins etc) which could offset the findings.
Some of the best content on the internet. Love the advanced/next level content between you two cognitive heavyweights!!
Derek changed my life and spoke to this stuff before it was cool. Now it’s mainstream.
Damn dude Derek is super knowledgable
i wonder who did this god-awful colour grading?
Wow, cool to see Derek here!
I’m on TRT and HGH so my blood is checked regularly. I had the Moderna vaccine and now have abnormalities in my blood. Every day is nerve wracking.
LOL..U GOT THE SHOT CAUSE SLEEPY JOE TOLD U IT WAS GOOD FOR U..GET OFF THE ROIDS YO..
@@leelunk8235 I’m not a Democrat dude. Quite the opposite (I’ve had a strong dislike for them and have for 20 years).
I was offered the vaccine early because I work in remote communities that were at high risk. I’m in health care and there had been multiple youth suicides and felt I needed to be there as a professional and to provide for my family. I regret it every day. My wife and kids didn’t get it (thankfully) because of the damage it did to me. It meant they were effectively kept out of public life for two years (I live in Canada).
I suffered severe neurological damage from the vax and as a result spoke out against the it, but was gaslit by the health system and couldn’t get treatment. Eventually, I found a doctor who had some success treating vaccine injuries. The HGH healed my neurological symptoms and the TRT brought the rest of my health back to normal. The doctor who prescribed them probably saved my life. Also, TRT isn’t roids. They are used to restore normal levels of testosterone if used correctly. I’m left wondering why you’re so sensitive on the issue of “roids” when you seem to know nothing about TRT.
You made assumptions about me and only revealed yourself to be an ass. Regardless, I hope you are well and recover from the high cost of this current administration. It’s staggering the damage they’ve inflicted on your country. Peace.
Fascinating stuff. I had no idea compounding pharmacies were basically glorified supplement manufacturing for pharamcy grade drugs. A couple random things derek brought up that were very insightful to somethings i have been wondering about. I guess I'm a nerd, i watched and listened adamantly to the entire video almost in 2 sittings and I don't even lift bro.
2:07:59 "when are you starting" killed me^^
More Plate More Dates! Go Derek man big now.
Why aren't US doctors prescribing Nebido (testosterone undecanoate)? I've been on a 8-9 week injection interval TRT regimen for six years now with great results and no sides. Super stable levels with way fewer injections than cypopnate or enanthate.
One word: profit. The foundation that drives all things Bid Pharma does. They're not interested in what's good for you. They're interested in what's good for them.
Derek held his own with the big dogs!
So im not a body builder ,but i took mild dosages (500-750. Mcg per week ,of a variety of steroids for about 8 years with mild pauses in between like a month or two off.Ive been working out since age 29 ,i started steroids at age 42 and stopped cold Turkey at about age 50 .Took zero drugs to promote natural hormone production and it took me about 7-9 months to go back to normal or feel normal,If this info helps .So im the real life proof that a man can recover at his middle ages ,but i do eat very healthy in general and very different.What do i mean by that.I have a craving for nuts for example and raw vegetables.Premium organic usually unsalted raw nuts like walnuts, pistachios,pecans,a little cashew,hazel nuts,some peanuts and raw almonds.I eat Mediterranean food and lots of cheese like feta, Parmesan,rogano,raw green onions and a lot of herbs like orageno ,black pepper, Cheyenne paprika basil and olive oil daily etc
Taking DHEA changed my life. I'm 46 and for years I've been feeling exhausted all the time, moody, anxious and irritable. Since I began taking DHEA (50 mg) daily - except weekends - it's like I got the old me back. My mood is fine, I'm calm and my energy levels are high.
I don't think it's changed anything regarding my physiology, but quality of life has skyrocketed.
I TAKE 100 MGS OF DHEA BEFORE BEDTIME BEEN DOING IT FOR MANY YEARS..IM STEROID FREE ALL MY LIFE..CANT DAY DHEA IS DOING ANYTHING
Have you noticed any negatives at all?
@@bigzachful NOTHING NEGETIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO DO BLOOD WORK TO SEE IF MY DHEA IS HIGHER OR WHAT NOT
high traces of metal are usually found in blackmarket compounds, the risk coupled with meningitis is not worth it
NO STEROIDS IS WORTH IT
I love the fact that Dr attia, with his traditional medical background, will delve into these topics that most doctors are clueless about.This is fantastic. The fact that derrick is even in the same room with Peter, goes to show that derrick is the real deal. Highest level of Respect to both of them !
No issues with finasteride after 10 years of use. Minoxidil is almost useless in my experience. Zero issues as noted and I believe this will add protection for BPH. Finasteride does not eradicate DHT, just reduces it to a degree it. Derek is correct. DHT is mainly needed during puberty and less so afterward.
This is great! Thanks Peter and Derek for putting this together.
Wondering if the lethargy from growth hormone is a result of the increase in IGF-1 initiating a parasympathetic response to the insulin growth factor. It makes sense since insulin suppresses cortisol reducing sympathetic activity and as a result initiating parasympathetic activity. Same thing happens with breaking a fast.
Twice now Peter has raised the Finesteride syndrome but he has not clearly explained what the concern is? He has been nebulous about some irreversible damage but I can’t seem to find where he explains it. Is it the masking of the PSA value, is it the retrograde ejaculation? Both which do have workarounds?
Anecdotal accounts of patients experiencing irreversible side effects seemed to be his biggest concern, the risk ratio for a cosmetic issue which he personally doesn't seem to be as interested in.
Blocking off really key enzymatic processes in the body leads to disrupted neurosteroid production maybe something else he is concerned about.
He did seem ominous about it without really mentioning why, just personal opinion?
@@lh5520the problem is, the anecdotal reports are just that… there’s absolutely no evidence that finasteride causes permanent side effects. Absolutely no evidence that the drug effects neurosteroids. Many of the anti-finasteride crowed are complete conspiracy theorists.
@@lh5520thank you
Because it’s a growing issue in the medical industry. And many major doctors are going against it because of how many guys it makes permanently impotent. Gave me perm ED. And treatments don’t work for many guys like tadalafil and viagra completely ineffective
Literally the worst possible event in your life if you get that, but its a minority so no one truly cares rather this is the best hairloss compound
I know a guy that gave his kid HGH at the age of 13. Kid did end up taller than his mom and dad and did go on to play D1 basketball but I’m not sure how much the HGH contributed to his height. I also know a doctor that wad giving himself HGH and six months later he was dead from it
IM SURE THAT DOCTOR WAS ONLY TAKING ANTIAGING DOSES AND DIED FROM SOMETHING ELSE
@@leelunk8235 No he died just how i said he did. HGH caused his death. He was a friend so nah, he went a little to far
@@dodgeram5098 WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE AUTOPSY..THOSE NEVER LIE..A DOCTOR WOULDNT TAKE HIGH AMOUNTS OF HGH..IM SKEPTICAL..ANTIAGING AMOUNTS OF HGH DONT KILL ANYONE
One of the best episodes. Looking forward to part 2, 3, 4.....
I had a friend who’s growth plates were closing at 12yrs old, he was very VERY small. His projected height was gonna be 5’. His parents put him on “growth hormones” and he ended up 6’2”! Seems cool to me!
I wish I was able to take growth when I was a teen.
@@bigzachful You and me both buddy!
Dude Crying laughing face emoji red love heart thumbs up
Derek is one of my favorite people on TH-cam. He is unbelievably knowledgeable. Just him talking motivates me to go the gym😂 Been watching his channel for years.
Derek just blew me away...
this guy goes deep...\m/
Super high-level! Utterly fascinating! Thank you for never dumbing down your content. Keep up the excellent work!
2 of my favorites in 1 podcast. Can’t wait for part 2
Same
I'm 51 years old and I've been on gear for 7 years . I could careless about the risk . I'm an adult . My parents stopped telling me what to do after high school and I joined the US Army at 18 . Like going to War is totally safe . SMH ! I'm sick and tired of our Government telling adults your not allowed to that to your body . But it's totally ok to be a fat ass eating yourself to death . Right ?
I am 50, just started trt, first time. Fuck everyone, I won't let a man in his 30s push me aside professionally and personally. I am looking forward to my 50s and I haven't reached my optimal self. I already have children and I am married. I wanna get healthy and stronger than ever
Some of the smartest guys in the fitness industry. Very interesting podcast to watch!
If hgh is working as a muscle enhancer. Broderick Chavez gave a spot on example. It’s synergistic, take for example the late 80’s begin 90’s. Body builders came on stage with at least 80 pounds more. Combination of hgh, slin and anabolics. You just talked about it naming all the great names. 1:16:20
Such a good podcast PACKED with information
For the height surgeries, they literally break their legs and those screws lengthen the limbs every few 1/4 inches. It’s medieval forsure
I'm approaching my senior years so I have little interest in PED's but it was still a very interesting conversation. This is without a doubt my favorite podcast. Dr. Attia's skills as a communicator and interviewer are among the very best. Not to mention his knowledge base and intellect. When you consider the other demands on his time, I don't know how he does it.
I personally think the senior years are when intelligent use of PED's might be most useful and needed.
@@danielwhyte9172 I don't know enough to say either way. I feel pretty good so if it's not broken.... That said I'm sure it would put some pep in my step. But alas, these are first world concerns.
Bro the sickest cross over I've ever seen. Of all time for me personally
This is the best podcast episode ever 👌 two greatest minds in optimisation