When I was ten years old some forty plus years ago I was taught how to use a bow saw. That was the go to until ten years ago. Then I stumbled across Japanese pull saws. They are now my go to and that includes my carpentry gear. For myself, as the aches and pains start to catch up it's the pull that makes life easier.
Opposite for me. Tendinitis issues in my wrist and elbow make pull saws miserable to use for any length of time. They work well for pruning, but for firewood the bow saw has been much better.
Well... You I know love ya Elisabeth, but I have to disagree about bowsaws being more efficient in cutting big logs, the katanaboy 500/650 blaze through much bigger logs than a bow saw MUCH faster. The tapered design of silky saws mean that the impulse hardened teeth that are RAZOR sharp are also slightly thicker than the spine of the saw, this means that there is no binding. The blades dont need to be sharpened even after hundreds of uses due to the patented impulse hardening of the SK4 steel. The gap is a downside to the saws curvature which is there in order to make the saw cut faster, I've never heard of anyone cutting themselves like that. The katanaboys have a locking feature keeping them closed, I agree this is one area where it may be improved. Comparing the long more vigorous strokes of an extended bowsaw to little light strokes (and ineffective technique) of a bigboy 2000 is not a fair comparison. Silky advises NOT to push down on the blade and let the saw do the work, saving energy. A valid comparison would have a person do it many times to gauge the dulling of the blades. If its ergonomics you are after than you will want a pistol grip fixed blade like the Zubat, sugoi or Sugowaza. However the pistol grip is not conducive to horizontal cutting and falling trees (something bowsaws are very awkward at)The short of it is yes bowsaws are easier to sharpen because they will need to be sharpened, I've never had to sharpen a silky saw in my years. Anyways thats my rant lol, I still think you're awesome but this is an area I'm quite passionate about.
Its ok we dont have to agree on everything :) I have used the bigboy both with and without pressure. Still I was much slower than with the bowsaw. yes maybe with a longer sawblade like the katanaboy has, it would have been better in competition than the bigboy 2000. still I believe that bow saws cut more efficent because of their thin blades. also I agree with you that the blade will stay sharp for a long time, however there is no steel on this planet which will stay sharp forever, sooner or later the blade will get dull. I prefer bow saws, you prefer folding saws and that is OK! Have a good one!
Canadian Prepper this is where I have to agree with you. I believe Lilly is using the technique of the inferior saws on the Silky saw . Cutting with the silky saws are almost effortless . I only use 2 fingers and my thumb . I can also cut with the silky when I am exhausted.
she said the bowsaws cut more efficiently because the sawblades are thinner, so you have to remove less wood in the same cut comparatively thus saving yourself some energy sharpness of the blade aside(because we can just assume perfect conditions with the sharpest possible blade in a hypothetical scenario) the only thing you have to worry about when sawing wood is how wide the cut is and how big the teeth are (larger teeth allow you to gather more material behind it so every single tooth will cut longer before it starts skipping (because the material removed cant go anywhere any more)
chosena91 by that logic a piece of paper should cut the log fastest. It's not about thickness, it's about razor sharp teeth. A company thats been making saws for 100 years obviously is able to weight the trade off between thickness/friction and cutting power, thickness of the saw is so minutely more than bowsaw that it is negligible imho and a moot point. If you've ever seen the teeth of a silky and compared it to a bowsaw there is a HUGE difference in the sophistication of the design and the actual sharpness due to impulse hardening (Google it) and a taper to allow hard teeth (that almost never need sharpening) and a flexible spine to prevent breakage. The advantages over primitive bow saw tech are so numerous I find it hard to understand how someone can claim a bowsaw is better outside of traditionalist sentiment there are so many functional disadvantages I'm baffled by how it's preferred by The few that do. Most gear reviewers concur about the superiority of silky saws, but its good to have some critical feedback to keep the tech improving.
chosena91 Also tooth size or teeth per inch as it's referred is ideally different for diff wood. Hardwoods benefit from more TPI, soft and Greenwood need bigger teeth. The silky are designed to excavate wood from the cut on the push and pull but only cut on pull to prevent binding. I'm telling you man it's like comparing a rifle to a bow... The silky being the rifle ;)
Thank you for your very thorough review. My main appreciation is that you included everyday usage, and their ergonomic application. Others have also commented on the wrist tension with the two Silky saws which verifies the comparison to my abilities. Thank you for the detailed explanations. Love your channel.
Silky seems only work well if you can hold it with two hands, which is fine under certain circumstances, but not always. Thinking about dealing with blowdowns on the trail I feel that I’ll always need one hand to hold those wiggly branches I’m cutting through.
I've had the exact Silky you tested for over a year now. Yes you do have to be careful when closing, it is super sharp so being careless around it is not a good idea. The blade has two positions, one for cutting wood close to the ground, works well. I keep mine in a leather pouch, really the pouch is made for carrying welding rods, but works well. One last thing, I learned, let the saw do the work, don't try to force it, you will find you will cut just as well without tiring yourself out.
I bought a 20$ pruning saw replacement blade at Lee Valley 7TPI. 14.25 inches long blade . I cut a tang for the handle , carved a maple handle, pinned it with copper wire , made a red cedar sheath . handle is at the same angle as a bow saw. it took a little work but i got exactly what i wanted & i can resharpen it when required. 9 years and counting on the real world testing & i still love it. Jared
The Silky is a pruning saw. You reach above your head, a cut while using gravity. Your wrist is also at the correct angle for pruning. Thanks for showing the superiority of the bow saw for firewood.
You never mentioned about changing the grip angle on the Silky saw. It has two positions on thr handle to accommodate your cutting when the wood you are cutting is close to the ground...gives you a better angle and handle clearance.
Hi.LillyGreat vid.Using a pull saw goes against thousands of years of sawing.It takes alot of learning,not too push.once aperson masters the pull method it is a great method and very fast.Faster than most.The trick is not to cut flat.Get your wood up in the air so youare cutting up and down,takes the pressure off the wrist.For the average user you are 100% right.Next do not drop the blade on your handit hurts like hell and the teeth make big holes and a lot of blood.
I was thinking about her getting the wood higher up, as I was watching those wrist angles... (yeah, recent Silky 240 purchaser; was hoping it would be a leader in the timed test because of that :P ) Can anybody show me a good set-up? If say, I don't have an ideally placed rock or tree stump to do the work higher off the ground? Maybe just construct a 90-second sawhorse somehow??
1:56 Hi Lilly. The real advantage of the pull style saws is they use far less calories per stroke than the push style. The reason is that the push stroke requires two things - downward pressure and forward force. The pull style, however, requires only backward pull. The teeth of the pull saw are so designed that they bite into the wood on the pull stroke and tend to dig in downwards, so you need apply no (or very little) downward pressure at all. Just let the saw do the work and keep the pulls going. Remember, it's not speed of cutting that is most important, but expenditure of calories. The forward stroke of the pull saw only serves to clean the sawdust out of the groove. Another advantage is that pull saws never get stuck, like bow saws tend to do (rather irritatingly!). The reason is that most of them (the better ones certainly) are thicker at the teeth and thinner at the top (much like a flat ground knife blade, but upside down!). Silky saws are also very useful for cutting selected limbs for a bundle (like hazel) without damaging the rest, where a bow saw wouldn't be able to get in. Lastly, as one doesn't really need a long blade even for quite thick logs, Silky saws tend to be shorter than equivalent bow saws, less bulky, and don't have that pesky blade to somehow store and carry safely. All in all, the folding pull style saw is generally much more user-friendly and easier to use, while still being able to do some pretty hefty cutting jobs. Thanks for another enjoyable video.
Different tools for different uses. The pull saws work great for pruning, like doing trail maintenance. The bow saws are much better at processing downed wood, like when you're camping, because the wrist position is more ergonomic. If you've ever had repetitive use injuries in your wrist or elbow, this is a big deal. I love my Agawa, as you can see in the video it folds up very nicely, though it is still long.
@@plmn93 Hi there. Please explain how the wrist position with a bow saw is better than say a Silky for "downed wood" - I assume you mean wood close to the ground or lying flat? With a bow saw your forearm is usually parallel to the saw blade. If this wood is 6 inches off the ground or so, then your arm also has to be the same height and parallel to the ground. That is hardly ergonomic. Besides Silky saws have a second setting so that the blade tilts further to accommodate this making it far easier to use than a bow saw for that application. Anyway, it seems that one merely has to lift the wood to be cut to a different position that is higher up and at a convenient height for sawing. I have nothing against using bow saws, but I think they are less convenient both for carrying and for using in the field, for both wet and dry wood.
@@dennisleighton2812 By downed wood I mean dead wood that is on the ground, as cutting live or dead upright trees is generally not allowed when camping. But I don't necessarily mean cutting it on the ground. I usually bring it back to camp to process it there, sometimes cutting off what I can carry first. With a bow saw your wrist is straight, which is more ergonomic, putting less stress on your wrist and forearm.
I have a Wyoming saw I use when hunting, it is small compact and has two blades, one for cutting wood and one for butchering. It is not the best saw for cutting fair size firewood but It serves a dual purpose which is better that taking two saws. When I take this saw with me, it is because I am hunting moose. I have bow saws at the cabin and on these ones you are absolutely right. If you are stationary somewhere they are by far the easiest and efficient saws. Cheapest as well, blades are easy to find and replace. The silky big boy that I have tried is a great saw, as safe as any others. I am not a big fan of folding saws to start with but it worked great. Hitting your leg with the BB is no different than hitting your leg with a bow or any other saw. The key here in using tools in the bush is to have good, safe working habits. Take your time, figure out what you want to accomplish and take the proper steps to do it in a safe manner regardless of time pressure. My point being I don't have a favourite saw. I used the best one for the activities I am doing at the time. That being said if you asked me "If you could have only one saw which one would you take"? I would probably take the Big Boy. Because of the sharp blade, the fact it takes very little room in a pack. Not great for butchering as the teeth are very close together and bone dust, meat and fat get stock in there and you have to clean the blade constantly. But overall I believe it is the most versatile.
It all depends on what you're going to use them for. The Silky is awesome for pruning because it can get into tight spaces and odd angles, but for processing firewood like she is demonstrating the Agawa's ergonomics are far superior.
Thank you Lilley for this video everyone out in the prepping/ bushcraft say that silky is the best thing since sliced bread but seeing you test them really sorts this argument out thank you
A really handy tip I was given after the bow saw blade jumped onto my branch holding hand lacerating it badly was this. When starting a cut , particularly a large diameter branch, place the thumb of your branch holding hand lightly on the back of the blade. If the saw catches on the bark etc, it cannot jump onto your hand. Love your videos, keep up your good work xxx
Hi Lilly, thanks for the video. It's quite helpful because i have the silky big boy 2000 and have exactly the same problem you showed. The one hand grip is not good at all. However when i can hold the saw with 2 hands , like on a tree branch , it cuts like a laser, but that's not really possible when cutting firewood for bushcraft. I'll have a look at the boreal bowsaw you showed. Thanks :) Have a nice day.
Thank you for all your hard work and keeping us entertained throughout the last years. Stay tuned and have a Merry Christmas Lilly, best wishes, Marcus
Excellent video analysis. I have a smaller folding saw which is nice for small diameter limbs. Your analysis has helped me decide on the bow saw for more hefty logs. Thanks a million.
using any sharp tool be it knife, axe or saw requires that you observe proper placement of your body in conjunction with the tool that your using at that time, happy, safe an healthy holidays lily.
You do fine and thoughtful product reviews: pros and cons are concisely presented, usability is in sharp focus. Nothing is given a 'thumbs down; rather you explain the best way to use the product, should a buyer prefer a certain style. I had a 25-year-old saw, much like your father's: it brought back memories to see you use it! I moved on to a saw very much like the Boreal model you tested: we did a lot of backpacking and the folding-but-still-connected architecture of the saw made it most efficient to assemble and to take down. The big bow saw 'wobbled' from side to side because my small hands (for a man) found the large size hard to control.
There's something else at play besides blade thickness because to me it seems a folding saw like the Silky cuts faster and more efficiently/easier than a bow saw even though it has a thicker blade. I think it has to do with the bow saw's thinner blade constantly twisting, turning and binding into the wood.
Sorry, but I've cut wood my whole life, with every kind of saw imaginable, and bow saws DO twist and bind, no matter how much tension. Take your bow saw, set it on top of a piece of wood and apply downward pressure. The blade will not remain vertical, it will twist/turn to one side, and this is what happens when you're going all out trying to saw through a log. Also, the fact that a person can't perfectly saw (perfectly straight, back and forth, no variance in pressure, force or direction, etc.), along with the fact that it cuts on the push which greatly contributes to binding/twisting, compounds the problem. With a Silky type saw, the blade is thicker and taller which makes it more resistant to twisting, and it takes no pressure for the saw to work properly. Add the fact that it cuts on the pull instead of the push and this virtually eliminates binding.
Apparently we have a language problem here. I know what you mean, but I dont call it twisting. The blade of a bow saw shifts a little bit to the side yes, but that does not interfere with the cutting efficiency when you apply straight pressure on it. also bow saw blade cut mainly when pushed but they also cut when they get pulled. so it is not true what you say about the binding. btw you can bend a folding saw, I have bend the bahco saw you saw in the video and I have ripped of a silky pocketboy at the tip because i bend it over. also when you go to Canadian Preppers channel and look at his saw cutting videos you can see that the long katanaboy saws bend like hell.
For me, the shifting of the bow saw blade does interfere with the cutting efficiency. When it shifts side to side as you cut it is rubbing on the wood and creating friction and resistance. As you say the bow saw MAINLY cuts while being pushed. This exacerbates the shifting and extra friction. I know you can bend a folding saw lengthwise (I have broke hundreds of saw blades on dozens of different types of saws), BUT it is way more resistant to bends vertically because of its thickness and height. Add to that that it only cuts on the pull and you get way less friction/resistance than when using a bow saw. Yes, you can break a Silky saw blade IF you bend it too far, but that is operator error, not a fault of the saw itself. Most of the people that complain about a Silky breaking were using it wrong and applying too much force while pushing, etc. And of course the Katanaboy saw will bend more than smaller saws because it's extremely long. But, it's not the same kind of bending that I'm referring to. That is bending lengthwise which doesn't matter because the saw cuts on the pull. I'm talking about vertical shifting while cutting, which is what a bow saw does. And if you had a bow saw with a blade as long as the Katanaboy, how much would it bend and twist? It would be unusable, which proves my point about the bow saw. I don't know what you're doing to make it easier/more efficient to use a bow saw, but for ME, the bow saw is less efficient and slower than a Silky saw.
@@adamaj74 yawn. North of 40yrs being involved in the outdoors 3 of which was living completely off grid(survival wasn't a hobby for me) tells me you blame the tool for your improper technique. Those 40yrs+ are trail maintenance, the time I lived off grid and truly relied on my tools, getting massive amounts of firewood for the colder seasons, etc. If the blade on the bow saw is twisting it is due to improper tension or user technique. Both of which falls into the user's wheelhouse. The thing with pullsaws is you cannot negate fatigue. When that sets in things happen such as binding the blade on a Silky on a return stroke.
Thanks for the useful video Lilly. I think you're correct about the angle of the hand being better for the bow saw. I never thought of that before so I'm glad I watched your video.
Hey lilly,i fixed that safety problem with the folding saws by using a large thick rubber band around mine wile closed and not in use so it wont open up when not wanted ect.
Magical man you can also cut Ranger bands as wide as you like, if you make it wider than you need, you can always cut narrower bands off of it if you need them.
Packable bow saws are my first choice. They are much more efficient and comfortable to work. Blades are cheap to replace in bow saws, and the saw frame takes a beating.
Thank you for a very informative video, Lilly. You have taken time to study these tools and their advantages and disadvantages and safety. You have pointed out some things I always had at the back of my mind when using each type of saw, I have them all, but never really thought about it. Well done, you are right on.
I have a large Bahco bow saw, as well as a Bahco Laplander folding saw for the light stuff. I’ve never really messed with the breakdown saws as they usually look to be very uncomfortable for extended use, but that Boreal actually looks pretty nice. Thanks Lilly!
I have a nice bowsaw I got from the flea market for free. I was buying a scroll saw and I sweetened the deal by asking if I could have the saw thrown in. Turns out it is a really nice swedish bowsaw! My plan is to build a roycroft pack frame to carry it easier because I don't care how inconvenient they are, bowsaws are THE king. Fastest cutting, easy to sharpen, and spare blades take up virtually no space in your pack.
I own both the Laplander and the silky bb 2000. The Bahco with the fine saw teeth are great for the small stuff like smaller tree branches and kindling for starting a fire whereas the silky big boys larger and more aggressive teeth will hang up on smaller branches but will make short work of the larger cutting chores and will keep your fire burning bright. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
I love LOVE the BAHCO bow saw you had shown in some of your older videos. I purchased 2 different blades, one for green and the other I guess for other. WOW it really does a nice job. Thanks from Atlanta Ga USA.
You have a point about the position of the wrist. In kayaking, having the wrists straight is paramount to lasting with a minimal effort, in martial arts striking with a bent wrist may lead to instant injury. Yet most of the folding saws I've used have this bend precisely to avoid that, it's just a matter of using them well. Pushing on a saw is indeed counter-productive, it has to bite its way through the wood by its sharpness, not be pushed through. That, in its turn, also reduces any strain on the wrist. In order to last, be it in sawing, canoeing, kayaking or martial arts, one always has to remain fluid, supple in one's movements. Even for walking, by the way : rigid legs weary a lot faster.
Lilly ,I have followed you from the beginning and have enjoyed all your videos. I've also sent most of your videos to my daughter who grew up in the woods with her daddy . I mildly disagree with you on the saw issue. Silky saws are God's gift to the woods people. Still love you and your work and determination .
I see value in both types of saws. There are a million different uses for a saw. Hell, I have at least 8 different hammers. Each is meant to bluntly strike an object. But, is that object a nail? A piece of tin I'm trying to shape (probably poorly, lol)? Is it a cinder block I'm trying to demolish or maybe a wooden dowel I'm setting into a piece of furniture? Point being, each of the variations are designed to gain the appropriate leverage and precision for a specific task. A Ferrari is a great car, unless you're trying to traverse a sand dune. I liked this video because it points out some of the strengths and limitations of the various varieties of saws on the market. Lilly did a great job of covering the pros and cons, and the viewer can decide which tool would best suit their needs. Thank you for your videos and best wishes for 2018.
Regarding silky fold saw, your problem with the gap between the saw and handle, is just because you normally don't wear gloves, which is quite common in your videos.
Nice review. I might mention that it is possible to get different types of blades for both bow and folding saws. If you are working up firewood, consider a "dry wood" blade. They are far more efficient than the green wood blades you are using, Also, as you say, there is the advantage for folding saws, and some bow saws, because when backpacking or canoe/kayak tripping they can be very quick and easy to fold and stow away.
I got a bow saw I bought at harbor freight for 6 bucks witch works pretty good, plus it comes with an extra blade that you can use to carry on your pack and build the bow out of branches
I've used bow, fixed and folding saws and prefer the fixed blade saw, particularly the Silky Zubat. For Bushcraft, and /or lightweight travel the Zubat is fantastic. I couldn't justify the higher priced Silky saws like the Sugowaza when held up against the performance of the Zubat. Silky folding saws are amazing from a design, build and functional perspective, but when you get to the Bigboy and larger versions the issue of portability becomes moot. Ideally various saws serve multiple purposes and scenarios.
I got the Tajima Folding Saw and my buddy got the Silky with the same size. They are both exactly the same when it comes to cutting branches but the Tajima only costs a third of the price. So I got the felling Silky is a little bit overrated.
Wow you are the only other person that I've seen that actually uses his/her brain to buy saws. Yes Tajima is better. Silky is overrated by far but thats what the youtube saw "experts" want ya'll to believe in anyway.
The EKA combi is the best folding saw I have used for outdoors. Light, portable and effective. Silky are a 'gimmick'. For smaller work I use either a Bahcho Laplander or Opinel number 13 saw. Either are perfectlly adequate at camp or on day hikes and are very portable. The only people who need a 30 inch bow saw and 3ft felling axe are a professional woodman.
Even then I wouldn't take more than a 21" combi-saw and a hunters axe of about 20" in length. I have a Swedish Hults classic hunters axe of that size with a 2lb head and it and the saw are capable of some serious wood processing at camp. I am mainly a day hike man with the occasional overnight. for about 3lb in carry weight I could 'drop' and process 20-30ft trees with this in under an hour. What more do you need?
I have the Bahco Laplander folding saw and the Bob Dustrude buck saw. Both have served me well for quite a while. If you remember that there is a different tool for different jobs, then all the saws you showed are capable of doing a good job for their intended use. Have a great holiday Lilly.
ATT: Anybody but mostly Lilly. IMPULSE HARDENED TEETH can be sharpened, use diamonds ( because diamonds are a man's best friend too ) you mentioned that you sharpen your own saws ... don't be limited to softer steels if you like a blade just get it and when it gets dull fix it with a diamond sharpener mine is 2.5'' X 3/4'' X .005''. Metric ? about 1 MM thick. it was meant for fish hook sharpening...i modified it by filing the back at a fine angle maybe 35 degrees so it will fit between the teeth down to the bottom , or close to. works like a charm. when i was younger they didn't make ergonomic portable saws to my taste so ... buy a replacement blade and make a wooden handle & sheath. you may need to weld a tang on for the handle. i wouldn't trade mine for any other. my larger one looks very much like a Silky SUGOI 360mm that Canadian Prepper does a demo on .my smaller one 7'' long blade- similar wooden handle . I think plastic is cheep , ugly And feels like your hand got puked on by an oil drum. i like wood ! so make your own from wood. but if you cant make things like me than use the... Silky SUGOI 360mm or similar, & a Corona folding saw 7 inch go for 7 TPI. it's nice to sharpen, more teeth is not so fun . I hope this helps Jared
If your planning on cutting down a big tree a bow saw is better but for bushcraft a folding saw like a silky is the way to go, they don’t bind and they are much more efficient on smaller stuff
Good video Lilly. I also tend to use my bow saws more just for the fact they hold a more ergonomic position. Even though they may take a little longer to cut, if you are cutting a lot of logs, your wrists will appreciate it more at the end of the day. With that said I also am a big fan of the silkys when I am heading out for a night of two and my cutting demands are less.
Great video! I'm going to get a Boreal 21 after watching this. Also, I have been thinking about folding saws and the pulling cut, and I think it has to do with their intended use for arborists. If you are working over your head or at the extent of your reach, you will have much more pulling strength than pushing.
The Silky saws cut only on the pull stroke, best not to push on the forward stroke. Also there is a second position that changes the angle which makes cutting alot easier deprnding on the wood bring cut.
You get tired faster if you saw wood with pushing movement than pulling. The pushing movement is gonna use your tricep and shoulders which are small muscles compared to pulling whereas you’re using your back.
I didn't expect to enjoy this video, but to my surprise I found it very interesting and made me look at saws in a whole new way. So thanks for that, Lily!
It's not always practical, but if you can use your folding saw to cut vertically (usually blade down) you have a much more natural hand position. It also works to cut with your handle lower than the cutting point (so the blade angles upward) and your wrist pretty straight.
It would be great to see you compare different roll-up "survival" saws, like cable saws, riveted teeth saws and hand chain saws, and compare those to a small folding saw like the Barco or Silky PocketBoy.
The Big Silky's blade can lock into two different angles. This will also change the angle of your wrist. It's great. Try it! Thanks for your review. I really appreciate your work.
Sorry to have to correct you. As you straighten a pull-saw at every stroke, the blade can even be thinner than a bow-saw blade, which is slightly bending at the push stroke (pluck the blade, the sound tells you there's not that much tension. Compare it to a carpenter's frame saw that's correctly tensioned). Cutting in tight spaces is no downfall for the bow saw, just detach the blade, feed it into the tight space and attach it again with the teeth to the inside - it may take a little while to get used to this awkward-seeming handling, but it's worth a trial. The Bahco-Laplander is rather small, so it's not suitable for bigger stuff. You are using the XT-blade with fine straight teeth - these are cutting in both directions, so you have to be careful on the push stroke not to bend it. There is a JT-blade availible, which is coarse and cuts at the pull stroke only; the tip is more rigid too, so I think it's a better choice. Would like to compare it with the Silky F180.
+Survival Lilly Excellent, fair review and demonstrations. I think that one valuable point you made was to consider the mission - the work that the saw is intended for. Small saws for small work, bigger saws for bigger work. In the hunting and shooting communities, we say "bring enough gun." The same would seem to be appropriate when considering a wood-cutting tool: "bring enough saw." Cheers.
For cutting a large quantity of saw logs for home heating there is no substitute for a bowsaw with several spare blades. For the price of one of the larger Silky saws (eg. Katana Boy) you can buy several large bowsaws and a bunch of replacement blades. The folding saws have their place in a backpack for light work..
Very good video I use both types of saws and the bow saw is easier to cut logs if you need to process more wood at a base camp or winter camping. I use a little folding saw for my normal overnight trips Merry Christmas and God Bless.
I've always had the WORST luck with bow saws. My hands tremble a bit due to nerve damage so I end up putting side to side strain on the blade and, well, they break a lot sooner due to that. I just stick with sold saw I can put in a sheath now, since that side to side movement can also damage the folding joint. Found that, for small things, those manual chain saws work well for me too, so long as I don't get too rough with them.
Good information. I am shopping for a camp saw. I usually use bow saws. Was considering the big Silky saw. But, you are the second person to show the flaws in its design. I like the smaller Silky saw though. I do use a Bahco folding saw when metal detecting to remove roots that get in the way.
I just bought a Japanese pull saw called the samurai itchy ban . Wranglestar reccomended it . The grip is much more vertical on the handle deffinatly helps . Feels great. appreciate the tips gonna have to try that boreal out . Looks cool .
I've had my "Boreal 21" for about a year now and I love it :-) It processes fire wood very well, folds/unfolds quickly, it's light-weight and takes up very little pack space. I usually store mine on the outside of the pack anyways. Definitely a good investment!
Referring to a 25 year old saw made in the early 90s at 3:44, “It must have been some really good steel from the old days”....made me feel old....ha ha ha. 😂 Nice video! Like the collapsible bow saws, preference towards the smaller one for me. With the large folding saw, like the idea of a sleeve. You can also add a rubber band or hair band around the folding saw for additional safety from unintentional opening.
Lily, I think that orange/red old bow saw might be a 30" Bacho similar to the updated Bacho Ergo bow saw. It, and very similar models, are quite common here in Sweden. I would suggest that you sand of the frame and then repaint it, It should then be good for years to come. My current favourite saw is a DIY 21/24" version, actually made two in different sizes, of the Ray Mears folding buck saw for larger cutting tasks and a Bacho Laplander for smaller tasks. Probably going to buy a Japanese ~330mm pull saw in the future. Been using pull saws in carpentry and have been liking them.
I agree, the orange/red saw looks like the older versions of Bacho or Sandvik saws from Sweden. Growing up we had them in several sizes and the smaller ones could be brought out backpacking while the larger ones lived in the carpentry shed or wood shed. I simply attached the saw to the outside of the backpack. This was when the packs with external frames were used.
I understand your concern about sharpening the blade of the Bigboy, however, if you use it as per recommended instruction, you won't have to worry about it's cutting performance for literal years.
thanks Lilly, excellent review. I bought the Sven saw after your video a while ago where you reviewed that so you do make a difference.. 😊 I have been deliberating over whether getting a folding bow saw or to go for the Silky big boy... so again your video really helped. I love the thought of a large bow saw that folds away but then again I need to get the saw blade like that of a Silky into tight spaces. Thanks for the tip about the exposed blade on the Silky needing a shroud or case. Perhaps I will get both types of saw. LOL
Well it's a good thing we are all different, and that there are saws for all of us :). I personally love the folding saws, both because of their size, and by the way they cut wood (because of the way their teeth are positioned). I haven't got the money to buy a silky so I bought a cheap one 3 years ago (at Biltema in Sweden) and it STILL cuts wood like a chainsaw. Keep up the good work, and happy new year.
Important note. The most most common reason the the blade brakes on bow saws. Is people love to lean on it. Rather its to ad weight and support, or fatigue. So dont lean on your bow saws.
This was an excellent review; in depth and well thought through. You should be involved in the design of them! You saved me from an expensive mistake I think. I will maybe look to upgrade my little bahco bow saw to another bowsaw and check out sizes and blade types I think. And maybe just a small folding saw for little branches that are a little big for loppers.
Lilly,thank you for a very well considered evaluation of those saws.I'm in the market for a "take along" saw,and your opinion will carry weight...I may still get a silky,but you do bring up good points.
Such clear video. I haven't yet seen a video that really makes me want a Silky. If I wanted to cut bigger stuff, I'd want a bow saw with blades I can buy at local Hardware store. And the smaller Silky looks a bit delicate, and too easy to mistakenly put a bend or break in the blade?
Hi Lilly. In my experience saw preferences have a lot to do with you past experience. I grew up using bow saws both single and larger two person. You are always more efficient with tools you are used to. 20 years ago I started using pull saws when building a boat it took me quite some time to get used to the different grip angle and body mechanics but I now prefer them for general carpentry and fine cuts. However in the bush I still gravitate to the bow saw even though I have both Silky and Bacho. If someone has no past experience I can see how preferences would vary. On an unrelated topic what is this Hoodie that you are wearing in this video and several others. Looks like a nice mid layer jacket.
i love my big bob dustrude bow saw, and replacement blades are very common and easy to obtain . Now my Silky big boy XL is awsome ,it did take time to learn the correct pull only with minimal downward pressure . But wow just letting it cut is so effortless.I am looking forward to owning a Silky Katana 650 in the future , going to make a huge Siberian log fire like Survival Russia/ Lars
Lilly, that tepee is going mouldy, you need to light some fires to dry it out. The silky takes some getting used to, you are using it wrong...you should try the silky katana series they cut amazingly well, but you still need to understand and practice with them to get to the most use out of them.
The Boreal21 is pretty expensive for a saw ($100) but it looks really nice. Definitely something I'd consider saving up for to use for camping and bushcraft.
i have two bowsaws, my larger one looks just like your father's, i even painted my saws orange too. makes it easier to see in the brush when it's a dim light forest. i have the smaller version too. i take an old garden hose, split it, and make a blade cover. it straps to a molle system. one of these days i'll get a katana boy, they're just too good to pass up, but pricey.
When I was ten years old some forty plus years ago I was taught how to use a bow saw. That was the go to until ten years ago. Then I stumbled across Japanese pull saws. They are now my go to and that includes my carpentry gear. For myself, as the aches and pains start to catch up it's the pull that makes life easier.
Same for me for woodworking, but for rip cuts, I much prefer a tenon saw I modified the hell out of lol
Opposite for me. Tendinitis issues in my wrist and elbow make pull saws miserable to use for any length of time. They work well for pruning, but for firewood the bow saw has been much better.
Well... You I know love ya Elisabeth, but I have to disagree about bowsaws being more efficient in cutting big logs, the katanaboy 500/650 blaze through much bigger logs than a bow saw MUCH faster. The tapered design of silky saws mean that the impulse hardened teeth that are RAZOR sharp are also slightly thicker than the spine of the saw, this means that there is no binding. The blades dont need to be sharpened even after hundreds of uses due to the patented impulse hardening of the SK4 steel. The gap is a downside to the saws curvature which is there in order to make the saw cut faster, I've never heard of anyone cutting themselves like that. The katanaboys have a locking feature keeping them closed, I agree this is one area where it may be improved. Comparing the long more vigorous strokes of an extended bowsaw to little light strokes (and ineffective technique) of a bigboy 2000 is not a fair comparison. Silky advises NOT to push down on the blade and let the saw do the work, saving energy. A valid comparison would have a person do it many times to gauge the dulling of the blades. If its ergonomics you are after than you will want a pistol grip fixed blade like the Zubat, sugoi or Sugowaza. However the pistol grip is not conducive to horizontal cutting and falling trees (something bowsaws are very awkward at)The short of it is yes bowsaws are easier to sharpen because they will need to be sharpened, I've never had to sharpen a silky saw in my years. Anyways thats my rant lol, I still think you're awesome but this is an area I'm quite passionate about.
Its ok we dont have to agree on everything :) I have used the bigboy both with and without pressure. Still I was much slower than with the bowsaw. yes maybe with a longer sawblade like the katanaboy has, it would have been better in competition than the bigboy 2000. still I believe that bow saws cut more efficent because of their thin blades. also I agree with you that the blade will stay sharp for a long time, however there is no steel on this planet which will stay sharp forever, sooner or later the blade will get dull. I prefer bow saws, you prefer folding saws and that is OK! Have a good one!
Canadian Prepper this is where I have to agree with you. I believe Lilly is using the technique of the inferior saws on the Silky saw . Cutting with the silky saws are almost effortless . I only use 2 fingers and my thumb . I can also cut with the silky when I am exhausted.
she said the bowsaws cut more efficiently because the sawblades are thinner, so you have to remove less wood in the same cut comparatively thus saving yourself some energy
sharpness of the blade aside(because we can just assume perfect conditions with the sharpest possible blade in a hypothetical scenario) the only thing you have to worry about when sawing wood is how wide the cut is and how big the teeth are (larger teeth allow you to gather more material behind it so every single tooth will cut longer before it starts skipping (because the material removed cant go anywhere any more)
chosena91 by that logic a piece of paper should cut the log fastest. It's not about thickness, it's about razor sharp teeth. A company thats been making saws for 100 years obviously is able to weight the trade off between thickness/friction and cutting power, thickness of the saw is so minutely more than bowsaw that it is negligible imho and a moot point. If you've ever seen the teeth of a silky and compared it to a bowsaw there is a HUGE difference in the sophistication of the design and the actual sharpness due to impulse hardening (Google it) and a taper to allow hard teeth (that almost never need sharpening) and a flexible spine to prevent breakage. The advantages over primitive bow saw tech are so numerous I find it hard to understand how someone can claim a bowsaw is better outside of traditionalist sentiment there are so many functional disadvantages I'm baffled by how it's preferred by The few that do. Most gear reviewers concur about the superiority of silky saws, but its good to have some critical feedback to keep the tech improving.
chosena91 Also tooth size or teeth per inch as it's referred is ideally different for diff wood. Hardwoods benefit from more TPI, soft and Greenwood need bigger teeth. The silky are designed to excavate wood from the cut on the push and pull but only cut on pull to prevent binding. I'm telling you man it's like comparing a rifle to a bow... The silky being the rifle ;)
Dad's saw: "25 years old, stable, built my entire camp with it, never sharpened it, still cuts like hell"... lol.
Thank you for your very thorough review. My main appreciation is that you included everyday usage, and their ergonomic application. Others have also commented on the wrist tension with the two Silky saws which verifies the comparison to my abilities. Thank you for the detailed explanations. Love your channel.
Silky seems only work well if you can hold it with two hands, which is fine under certain circumstances, but not always. Thinking about dealing with blowdowns on the trail I feel that I’ll always need one hand to hold those wiggly branches I’m cutting through.
I've had the exact Silky you tested for over a year now. Yes you do have to be careful when closing, it is super sharp so being careless around it is not a good idea. The blade has two positions, one for cutting wood close to the ground, works well. I keep mine in a leather pouch, really the pouch is made for carrying welding rods, but works well. One last thing, I learned, let the saw do the work, don't try to force it, you will find you will cut just as well without tiring yourself out.
I bought a 20$ pruning saw replacement blade at Lee Valley 7TPI. 14.25 inches long blade . I cut a tang for the handle , carved a maple handle, pinned it with copper wire , made a red cedar sheath . handle is at the same angle as a bow saw. it took a little work but i got exactly what i wanted & i can resharpen it when required.
9 years and counting on the real world testing & i still love it. Jared
The Silky is a pruning saw. You reach above your head, a cut while using gravity. Your wrist is also at the correct angle for pruning. Thanks for showing the superiority of the bow saw for firewood.
Yep. Different saws for different uses. They each have their place. I use the bow saw for camping and the pull saw for trail maintenance.
Lilly, I dont see any adds on this one...just a heads up, I really hope its not because of the saws!
I just got an add on it. Maybe I dont get adds on every click? Thanks for tuning in! Lilly
nvrmind, they are there now...maybe I was too early.
What can viewers do to help with the current You Tube situation?
if you want to help us watch the advertisement till the end and maybe click on it. Thanks for your support!
Joe Robinet what is up
You never mentioned about changing the grip angle on the Silky saw. It has two positions on thr handle to accommodate your cutting when the wood you are cutting is close to the ground...gives you a better angle and handle clearance.
Hi.LillyGreat vid.Using a pull saw goes against thousands of years of sawing.It takes alot of learning,not too push.once aperson masters the pull method it is a great method and very fast.Faster than most.The trick is not to cut flat.Get your wood up in the air so youare cutting up and down,takes the pressure off the wrist.For the average user you are 100% right.Next do not drop the blade on your handit hurts like hell and the teeth make big holes and a lot of blood.
I was thinking about her getting the wood higher up, as I was watching those wrist angles... (yeah, recent Silky 240 purchaser; was hoping it would be a leader in the timed test because of that :P )
Can anybody show me a good set-up? If say, I don't have an ideally placed rock or tree stump to do the work higher off the ground? Maybe just construct a 90-second sawhorse somehow??
1:56 Hi Lilly. The real advantage of the pull style saws is they use far less calories per stroke than the push style. The reason is that the push stroke requires two things - downward pressure and forward force. The pull style, however, requires only backward pull. The teeth of the pull saw are so designed that they bite into the wood on the pull stroke and tend to dig in downwards, so you need apply no (or very little) downward pressure at all. Just let the saw do the work and keep the pulls going. Remember, it's not speed of cutting that is most important, but expenditure of calories. The forward stroke of the pull saw only serves to clean the sawdust out of the groove.
Another advantage is that pull saws never get stuck, like bow saws tend to do (rather irritatingly!). The reason is that most of them (the better ones certainly) are thicker at the teeth and thinner at the top (much like a flat ground knife blade, but upside down!).
Silky saws are also very useful for cutting selected limbs for a bundle (like hazel) without damaging the rest, where a bow saw wouldn't be able to get in.
Lastly, as one doesn't really need a long blade even for quite thick logs, Silky saws tend to be shorter than equivalent bow saws, less bulky, and don't have that pesky blade to somehow store and carry safely.
All in all, the folding pull style saw is generally much more user-friendly and easier to use, while still being able to do some pretty hefty cutting jobs.
Thanks for another enjoyable video.
Different tools for different uses. The pull saws work great for pruning, like doing trail maintenance. The bow saws are much better at processing downed wood, like when you're camping, because the wrist position is more ergonomic. If you've ever had repetitive use injuries in your wrist or elbow, this is a big deal. I love my Agawa, as you can see in the video it folds up very nicely, though it is still long.
@@plmn93 Hi there.
Please explain how the wrist position with a bow saw is better than say a Silky for "downed wood" - I assume you mean wood close to the ground or lying flat?
With a bow saw your forearm is usually parallel to the saw blade. If this wood is 6 inches off the ground or so, then your arm also has to be the same height and parallel to the ground. That is hardly ergonomic. Besides Silky saws have a second setting so that the blade tilts further to accommodate this making it far easier to use than a bow saw for that application. Anyway, it seems that one merely has to lift the wood to be cut to a different position that is higher up and at a convenient height for sawing.
I have nothing against using bow saws, but I think they are less convenient both for carrying and for using in the field, for both wet and dry wood.
@@dennisleighton2812 By downed wood I mean dead wood that is on the ground, as cutting live or dead upright trees is generally not allowed when camping. But I don't necessarily mean cutting it on the ground. I usually bring it back to camp to process it there, sometimes cutting off what I can carry first. With a bow saw your wrist is straight, which is more ergonomic, putting less stress on your wrist and forearm.
I have a Wyoming saw I use when hunting, it is small compact and has two blades, one for cutting wood and one for butchering. It is not the best saw for cutting fair size firewood but It serves a dual purpose which is better that taking two saws. When I take this saw with me, it is because I am hunting moose. I have bow saws at the cabin and on these ones you are absolutely right. If you are stationary somewhere they are by far the easiest and efficient saws. Cheapest as well, blades are easy to find and replace. The silky big boy that I have tried is a great saw, as safe as any others. I am not a big fan of folding saws to start with but it worked great. Hitting your leg with the BB is no different than hitting your leg with a bow or any other saw. The key here in using tools in the bush is to have good, safe working habits. Take your time, figure out what you want to accomplish and take the proper steps to do it in a safe manner regardless of time pressure. My point being I don't have a favourite saw. I used the best one for the activities I am doing at the time. That being said if you asked me "If you could have only one saw which one would you take"? I would probably take the Big Boy. Because of the sharp blade, the fact it takes very little room in a pack. Not great for butchering as the teeth are very close together and bone dust, meat and fat get stock in there and you have to clean the blade constantly. But overall I believe it is the most versatile.
Silky saws are awesome... I've been through so many saws, the Silky Bigboy is the winner by far...
Silky GomBoy is another great saw.
j'ai ces deux model mais je veut juste une seule en plus la katanaboy 500 mais pas plus grande on fait déjà beaucoup avec ses scies
It all depends on what you're going to use them for. The Silky is awesome for pruning because it can get into tight spaces and odd angles, but for processing firewood like she is demonstrating the Agawa's ergonomics are far superior.
Thank you Lilley for this video everyone out in the prepping/ bushcraft say that silky is the best thing since sliced bread but seeing you test them really sorts this argument out thank you
A really handy tip I was given after the bow saw blade jumped onto my branch holding hand lacerating it badly was this. When starting a cut , particularly a large diameter branch, place the thumb of your branch holding hand lightly on the back of the blade. If the saw catches on the bark etc, it cannot jump onto your hand. Love your videos, keep up your good work xxx
Hi Lilly, thanks for the video. It's quite helpful because i have the silky big boy 2000 and have exactly the same problem you showed. The one hand grip is not good at all. However when i can hold the saw with 2 hands , like on a tree branch , it cuts like a laser, but that's not really possible when cutting firewood for bushcraft. I'll have a look at the boreal bowsaw you showed. Thanks :) Have a nice day.
Thank you for all your hard work and keeping us entertained throughout the last years. Stay tuned and have a Merry Christmas Lilly, best wishes, Marcus
Excellent video analysis. I have a smaller folding saw which is nice for small diameter limbs. Your analysis has helped me decide on the bow saw for more hefty logs. Thanks a million.
using any sharp tool be it knife, axe or saw requires that you observe proper placement of your body in conjunction with the tool that your using at that time, happy, safe an healthy holidays lily.
You do fine and thoughtful product reviews: pros and cons are concisely presented, usability is in sharp focus. Nothing is given a 'thumbs down; rather you explain the best way to use the product, should a buyer prefer a certain style. I had a 25-year-old saw, much like your father's: it brought back memories to see you use it! I moved on to a saw very much like the Boreal model you tested: we did a lot of backpacking and the folding-but-still-connected architecture of the saw made it most efficient to assemble and to take down. The big bow saw 'wobbled' from side to side because my small hands (for a man) found the large size hard to control.
There's something else at play besides blade thickness because to me it seems a folding saw like the Silky cuts faster and more efficiently/easier than a bow saw even though it has a thicker blade. I think it has to do with the bow saw's thinner blade constantly twisting, turning and binding into the wood.
sorry but the thinner blade doesnt twist when there is appropriate tension on it.
Sorry, but I've cut wood my whole life, with every kind of saw imaginable, and bow saws DO twist and bind, no matter how much tension. Take your bow saw, set it on top of a piece of wood and apply downward pressure. The blade will not remain vertical, it will twist/turn to one side, and this is what happens when you're going all out trying to saw through a log. Also, the fact that a person can't perfectly saw (perfectly straight, back and forth, no variance in pressure, force or direction, etc.), along with the fact that it cuts on the push which greatly contributes to binding/twisting, compounds the problem. With a Silky type saw, the blade is thicker and taller which makes it more resistant to twisting, and it takes no pressure for the saw to work properly. Add the fact that it cuts on the pull instead of the push and this virtually eliminates binding.
Apparently we have a language problem here. I know what you mean, but I dont call it twisting. The blade of a bow saw shifts a little bit to the side yes, but that does not interfere with the cutting efficiency when you apply straight pressure on it. also bow saw blade cut mainly when pushed but they also cut when they get pulled. so it is not true what you say about the binding. btw you can bend a folding saw, I have bend the bahco saw you saw in the video and I have ripped of a silky pocketboy at the tip because i bend it over. also when you go to Canadian Preppers channel and look at his saw cutting videos you can see that the long katanaboy saws bend like hell.
For me, the shifting of the bow saw blade does interfere with the cutting efficiency. When it shifts side to side as you cut it is rubbing on the wood and creating friction and resistance. As you say the bow saw MAINLY cuts while being pushed. This exacerbates the shifting and extra friction. I know you can bend a folding saw lengthwise (I have broke hundreds of saw blades on dozens of different types of saws), BUT it is way more resistant to bends vertically because of its thickness and height. Add to that that it only cuts on the pull and you get way less friction/resistance than when using a bow saw. Yes, you can break a Silky saw blade IF you bend it too far, but that is operator error, not a fault of the saw itself. Most of the people that complain about a Silky breaking were using it wrong and applying too much force while pushing, etc. And of course the Katanaboy saw will bend more than smaller saws because it's extremely long. But, it's not the same kind of bending that I'm referring to. That is bending lengthwise which doesn't matter because the saw cuts on the pull. I'm talking about vertical shifting while cutting, which is what a bow saw does. And if you had a bow saw with a blade as long as the Katanaboy, how much would it bend and twist? It would be unusable, which proves my point about the bow saw. I don't know what you're doing to make it easier/more efficient to use a bow saw, but for ME, the bow saw is less efficient and slower than a Silky saw.
@@adamaj74 yawn. North of 40yrs being involved in the outdoors 3 of which was living completely off grid(survival wasn't a hobby for me) tells me you blame the tool for your improper technique.
Those 40yrs+ are trail maintenance, the time I lived off grid and truly relied on my tools, getting massive amounts of firewood for the colder seasons, etc.
If the blade on the bow saw is twisting it is due to improper tension or user technique.
Both of which falls into the user's wheelhouse.
The thing with pullsaws is you cannot negate fatigue. When that sets in things happen such as binding the blade on a Silky on a return stroke.
Reading the comments.....I never thought people could get so worked up over what kinda of saw is best in their opinion.
I got a Sawvivor years ago, out of business now. Collapisble bow saw 13" blade, 10 oz, $30. Pretty awesome. Thanks Lilly, Merry Christmas!
Thanks for the useful video Lilly. I think you're correct about the angle of the hand being better for the bow saw. I never thought of that before so I'm glad I watched your video.
Regardless of the style of saw you use, it is always good practice to keep anything you don't want to cut out of the path of the blade.
Hey lilly,i fixed that safety problem with the folding saws by using a large thick rubber band around mine wile closed and not in use so it wont open up when not wanted ect.
good solution
Magical man try a piece of bicycle inner tube, seems to last longer than rubber bands. Bands cut from inner tubes are often known as Ranger bands.
Magical man you can also cut Ranger bands as wide as you like, if you make it wider than you need, you can always cut narrower bands off of it if you need them.
..or buy a better saw like the Boreal. An even better solution, no?
Well,i did that since i had already bought a new saw and didnt want to waste more money. its simple and it works fine.
Packable bow saws are my first choice. They are much more efficient and comfortable to work. Blades are cheap to replace in bow saws, and the saw frame takes a beating.
Thank you for a very informative video, Lilly. You have taken time to study these tools and their advantages and disadvantages and safety. You have pointed out some things I always had at the back of my mind when using each type of saw, I have them all, but never really thought about it. Well done, you are right on.
I have a large Bahco bow saw, as well as a Bahco Laplander folding saw for the light stuff. I’ve never really messed with the breakdown saws as they usually look to be very uncomfortable for extended use, but that Boreal actually looks pretty nice. Thanks Lilly!
I have a nice bowsaw I got from the flea market for free. I was buying a scroll saw and I sweetened the deal by asking if I could have the saw thrown in. Turns out it is a really nice swedish bowsaw! My plan is to build a roycroft pack frame to carry it easier because I don't care how inconvenient they are, bowsaws are THE king. Fastest cutting, easy to sharpen, and spare blades take up virtually no space in your pack.
I own both the Laplander and the silky bb 2000. The Bahco with the fine saw teeth are great for the small stuff like smaller tree branches and kindling for starting a fire whereas the silky big boys larger and more aggressive teeth will hang up on smaller branches but will make short work of the larger cutting chores and will keep your fire burning bright. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
in my pack i carry a good set of branch pruners for small stuff they are amazingly easy and good for clearing small branches from over grown trails.
I love LOVE the BAHCO bow saw you had shown in some of your older videos. I purchased 2 different blades, one for green and the other I guess for other. WOW it really does a nice job. Thanks from Atlanta Ga USA.
Loved this review Lily. Very practical and common sense approach for your reviews! Hope you have a wonderful 2021!
You have a point about the position of the wrist. In kayaking, having the wrists straight is paramount to lasting with a minimal effort, in martial arts striking with a bent wrist may lead to instant injury. Yet most of the folding saws I've used have this bend precisely to avoid that, it's just a matter of using them well. Pushing on a saw is indeed counter-productive, it has to bite its way through the wood by its sharpness, not be pushed through. That, in its turn, also reduces any strain on the wrist. In order to last, be it in sawing, canoeing, kayaking or martial arts, one always has to remain fluid, supple in one's movements. Even for walking, by the way : rigid legs weary a lot faster.
Lilly ,I have followed you from the beginning and have enjoyed all your videos. I've also sent most of your videos to my daughter who grew up in the woods with her daddy . I mildly disagree with you on the saw issue. Silky saws are God's gift to the woods people. Still love you and your work and determination .
I see value in both types of saws. There are a million different uses for a saw. Hell, I have at least 8 different hammers. Each is meant to bluntly strike an object. But, is that object a nail? A piece of tin I'm trying to shape (probably poorly, lol)? Is it a cinder block I'm trying to demolish or maybe a wooden dowel I'm setting into a piece of furniture? Point being, each of the variations are designed to gain the appropriate leverage and precision for a specific task. A Ferrari is a great car, unless you're trying to traverse a sand dune. I liked this video because it points out some of the strengths and limitations of the various varieties of saws on the market. Lilly did a great job of covering the pros and cons, and the viewer can decide which tool would best suit their needs. Thank you for your videos and best wishes for 2018.
Regarding silky fold saw, your problem with the gap between the saw and handle, is just because you normally don't wear gloves, which is quite common in your videos.
or they could just make a handle which doesnt have a gap. safety first
Thank you. This is exactly what I needed. I have a folding saw currently I'm using in my videos.
Nice review. I might mention that it is possible to get different types of blades for both bow and folding saws. If you are working up firewood, consider a "dry wood" blade. They are far more efficient than the green wood blades you are using, Also, as you say, there is the advantage for folding saws, and some bow saws, because when backpacking or canoe/kayak tripping they can be very quick and easy to fold and stow away.
I got a bow saw I bought at harbor freight for 6 bucks witch works pretty good, plus it comes with an extra blade that you can use to carry on your pack and build the bow out of branches
I've used bow, fixed and folding saws and prefer the fixed blade saw, particularly the Silky Zubat. For Bushcraft, and /or lightweight travel the Zubat is fantastic. I couldn't justify the higher priced Silky saws like the Sugowaza when held up against the performance of the Zubat. Silky folding saws are amazing from a design, build and functional perspective, but when you get to the Bigboy and larger versions the issue of portability becomes moot. Ideally various saws serve multiple purposes and scenarios.
I totally agree with Canadian prepper on this when it comes to silky saws there is no comparison I just gave away all my other saws
Good, you made someone money and got ripped off. I know a sales pitch when I hear one. Hook, line and sinker. Bravo moron.
Laugh my ass off. You were seen coming bruh :D
I got the Tajima Folding Saw and my buddy got the Silky with the same size. They are both exactly the same when it comes to cutting branches but the Tajima only costs a third of the price. So I got the felling Silky is a little bit overrated.
Wow you are the only other person that I've seen that actually uses his/her brain to buy saws. Yes Tajima is better. Silky is overrated by far but thats what the youtube saw "experts" want ya'll to believe in anyway.
@@1stcSOLDIER as opposed to anonymous troll?
Tajima has flat saws good for carpentry and making log cabins.
The EKA combi is the best folding saw I have used for outdoors. Light, portable and effective. Silky are a 'gimmick'. For smaller work I use either a Bahcho Laplander or Opinel number 13 saw. Either are perfectlly adequate at camp or on day hikes and are very portable. The only people who need a 30 inch bow saw and 3ft felling axe are a professional woodman.
Even then I wouldn't take more than a 21" combi-saw and a hunters axe of about 20" in length. I have a Swedish Hults classic hunters axe of that size with a 2lb head and it and the saw are capable of some serious wood processing at camp. I am mainly a day hike man with the occasional overnight. for about 3lb in carry weight I could 'drop' and process 20-30ft trees with this in under an hour. What more do you need?
I have the Bahco Laplander folding saw and the Bob Dustrude buck saw. Both have served me well for quite a while. If you remember that there is a different tool for different jobs, then all the saws you showed are capable of doing a good job for their intended use. Have a great holiday Lilly.
Best position I've found for safety, ergonomics, and speed with a Silky / folding saw is a plumber's vice.
ATT: Anybody but mostly Lilly. IMPULSE HARDENED TEETH can be sharpened, use diamonds ( because diamonds are a man's best friend too ) you mentioned that you sharpen your own saws ... don't be limited to softer steels if you like a blade just get it and when it gets dull fix it with a diamond sharpener mine is 2.5'' X 3/4'' X .005''. Metric ? about 1 MM thick. it was meant for fish hook sharpening...i modified it by filing the back at a fine angle maybe 35 degrees so it will fit between the teeth down to the bottom , or close to. works like a charm. when i was younger they didn't make ergonomic portable saws to my taste so ... buy a replacement blade and make a wooden handle & sheath. you may need to weld a tang on for the handle. i wouldn't trade mine for any other. my larger one looks very much like a Silky SUGOI 360mm that Canadian Prepper does a demo on .my smaller one 7'' long blade- similar wooden handle .
I think plastic is cheep , ugly And feels like your hand got puked on by an oil drum. i like wood ! so make your own from wood.
but if you cant make things like me than use the... Silky SUGOI 360mm or similar, & a Corona folding saw 7 inch go for 7 TPI. it's nice to sharpen, more teeth is not so fun .
I hope this helps Jared
Very informative video. Thanks you
Bahco folding saw model is for household garden use olny and do make band saws as well,that can cut dry timber planks.
If your planning on cutting down a big tree a bow saw is better but for bushcraft a folding saw like a silky is the way to go, they don’t bind and they are much more efficient on smaller stuff
Good video Lilly. I also tend to use my bow saws more just for the fact they hold a more ergonomic position. Even though they may take a little longer to cut, if you are cutting a lot of logs, your wrists will appreciate it more at the end of the day. With that said I also am a big fan of the silkys when I am heading out for a night of two and my cutting demands are less.
Great video! I'm going to get a Boreal 21 after watching this. Also, I have been thinking about folding saws and the pulling cut, and I think it has to do with their intended use for arborists. If you are working over your head or at the extent of your reach, you will have much more pulling strength than pushing.
Just get the 24. Its only a few $ more. You can always cut a bigger log with a bigger saw but can't always cut a bigger log with a smaller saw.
@@rivercitymetaldetecting9854 What's 3" anyway, right? Hehe
@@cleansermacaroni9892 lol. So many places this could go.
Must resist.... m u s t resist. :)
@@rivercitymetaldetecting9854 lolol
The blade on the bow saw is for cutting wet timber with the raker tooth to clear the cut.
The Silky saws cut only on the pull stroke, best not to push on the forward stroke. Also there is a second position that changes the angle which makes cutting alot easier deprnding on the wood bring cut.
You get tired faster if you saw wood with pushing movement than pulling.
The pushing movement is gonna use your tricep and shoulders which are small muscles compared to pulling whereas you’re using your back.
I'm glad you made the point about hand position and wrist strain! Tools should help, not hurt!
Any person has their own unique way of using those kinds of saws
It all boils down to, "how big you are & how strong are you." for me it's the silky Big Boy 2000.
I didn't expect to enjoy this video, but to my surprise I found it very interesting and made me look at saws in a whole new way. So thanks for that, Lily!
It's not always practical, but if you can use your folding saw to cut vertically (usually blade down) you have a much more natural hand position.
It also works to cut with your handle lower than the cutting point (so the blade angles upward) and your wrist pretty straight.
Most bow saws are sold with a coarse (wet) blade, but there fine (dry) blades. You can carry both and cut small branches and large limbs.
Great vids , as always Lilly. Just a tip I use a ranger band or thick rubber band to keep my Silky saw from opening in my pack.
It would be great to see you compare different roll-up "survival" saws, like cable saws, riveted teeth saws and hand chain saws, and compare those to a small folding saw like the Barco or Silky PocketBoy.
The Big Silky's blade can lock into two different angles. This will also change the angle of your wrist. It's great. Try it! Thanks for your review. I really appreciate your work.
Sorry to have to correct you. As you straighten a pull-saw at every stroke, the blade can even be thinner than a bow-saw blade, which is slightly bending at the push stroke (pluck the blade, the sound tells you there's not that much tension. Compare it to a carpenter's frame saw that's correctly tensioned).
Cutting in tight spaces is no downfall for the bow saw, just detach the blade, feed it into the tight space and attach it again with the teeth to the inside - it may take a little while to get used to this awkward-seeming handling, but it's worth a trial.
The Bahco-Laplander is rather small, so it's not suitable for bigger stuff. You are using the XT-blade with fine straight teeth - these are cutting in both directions, so you have to be careful on the push stroke not to bend it. There is a JT-blade availible, which is coarse and cuts at the pull stroke only; the tip is more rigid too, so I think it's a better choice. Would like to compare it with the Silky F180.
+Survival Lilly Excellent, fair review and demonstrations. I think that one valuable point you made was to consider the mission - the work that the saw is intended for. Small saws for small work, bigger saws for bigger work. In the hunting and shooting communities, we say "bring enough gun." The same would seem to be appropriate when considering a wood-cutting tool: "bring enough saw." Cheers.
For cutting a large quantity of saw logs for home heating there is no substitute for a bowsaw with several spare blades. For the price of one of the larger Silky saws (eg. Katana Boy) you can buy several large bowsaws and a bunch of replacement blades. The folding saws have their place in a backpack for light work..
With the silky big boy 2000 you can press the lock again and position the angle of the saw higher so the tension of your wrist is eased :)
Very good video I use both types of saws and the bow saw is easier to cut logs if you need to process more wood at a base camp or winter camping. I use a little folding saw for my normal overnight trips Merry Christmas and God Bless.
I've always had the WORST luck with bow saws. My hands tremble a bit due to nerve damage so I end up putting side to side strain on the blade and, well, they break a lot sooner due to that. I just stick with sold saw I can put in a sheath now, since that side to side movement can also damage the folding joint. Found that, for small things, those manual chain saws work well for me too, so long as I don't get too rough with them.
Good information. I am shopping for a camp saw. I usually use bow saws. Was considering the big Silky saw. But, you are the second person to show the flaws in its design. I like the smaller Silky saw though. I do use a Bahco folding saw when metal detecting to remove roots that get in the way.
I just bought a Japanese pull saw called the samurai itchy ban . Wranglestar reccomended it . The grip is much more vertical on the handle deffinatly helps . Feels great. appreciate the tips gonna have to try that boreal out . Looks cool .
That wrist-angle point is very compelling. Great video, Lilly.
I've had my "Boreal 21" for about a year now and I love it :-) It processes fire wood very well, folds/unfolds quickly, it's light-weight and takes up very little pack space. I usually store mine on the outside of the pack anyways. Definitely a good investment!
Referring to a 25 year old saw made in the early 90s at 3:44, “It must have been some really good steel from the old days”....made me feel old....ha ha ha. 😂 Nice video!
Like the collapsible bow saws, preference towards the smaller one for me. With the large folding saw, like the idea of a sleeve. You can also add a rubber band or hair band around the folding saw for additional safety from unintentional opening.
I own the Boreal21 and it is indeed the best saw for bushcraft/backpacking.
Lily, I think that orange/red old bow saw might be a 30" Bacho similar to the updated Bacho Ergo bow saw. It, and very similar models, are quite common here in Sweden. I would suggest that you sand of the frame and then repaint it, It should then be good for years to come. My current favourite saw is a DIY 21/24" version, actually made two in different sizes, of the Ray Mears folding buck saw for larger cutting tasks and a Bacho Laplander for smaller tasks. Probably going to buy a Japanese ~330mm pull saw in the future. Been using pull saws in carpentry and have been liking them.
I agree, the orange/red saw looks like the older versions of Bacho or Sandvik saws from Sweden. Growing up we had them in several sizes and the smaller ones could be brought out backpacking while the larger ones lived in the carpentry shed or wood shed. I simply attached the saw to the outside of the backpack. This was when the packs with external frames were used.
The cool thing about the bow saws is that you can Carry different exchangeable blades with you
Great video. It explained so much I was wanting to understand about these saws.
I understand your concern about sharpening the blade of the Bigboy, however, if you use it as per recommended instruction, you won't have to worry about it's cutting performance for literal years.
thanks Lilly, excellent review.
I bought the Sven saw after your video a while ago where you reviewed that so you do make a difference.. 😊
I have been deliberating over whether getting a folding bow saw or to go for the Silky big boy... so again your video really helped.
I love the thought of a large bow saw that folds away but then again I need to get the saw blade like that of a Silky into tight spaces.
Thanks for the tip about the exposed blade on the Silky needing a shroud or case.
Perhaps I will get both types of saw. LOL
I like the B21 and thanks you made me think about things I did not think of before.
Well it's a good thing we are all different, and that there are saws for all of us :). I personally love the folding saws, both because of their size, and by the way they cut wood (because of the way their teeth are positioned). I haven't got the money to buy a silky so I bought a cheap one 3 years ago (at Biltema in Sweden) and it STILL cuts wood like a chainsaw. Keep up the good work, and happy new year.
Important note. The most most common reason the the blade brakes on bow saws. Is people love to lean on it. Rather its to ad weight and support, or fatigue. So dont lean on your bow saws.
This was an excellent review; in depth and well thought through. You should be involved in the design of them! You saved me from an expensive mistake I think. I will maybe look to upgrade my little bahco bow saw to another bowsaw and check out sizes and blade types I think. And maybe just a small folding saw for little branches that are a little big for loppers.
Lilly,thank you for a very well considered evaluation of those saws.I'm in the market for a "take along" saw,and your opinion will carry weight...I may still get a silky,but you do bring up good points.
Really a good review and points I'd not think of.. good job
Such clear video. I haven't yet seen a video that really makes me want a Silky. If I wanted to cut bigger stuff, I'd want a bow saw with blades I can buy at local Hardware store. And the smaller Silky looks a bit delicate, and too easy to mistakenly put a bend or break in the blade?
Hi Lilly. In my experience saw preferences have a lot to do with you past experience. I grew up using bow saws both single and larger two person. You are always more efficient with tools you are used to. 20 years ago I started using pull saws when building a boat it took me quite some time to get used to the different grip angle and body mechanics but I now prefer them for general carpentry and fine cuts. However in the bush I still gravitate to the bow saw even though I have both Silky and Bacho. If someone has no past experience I can see how preferences would vary. On an unrelated topic what is this Hoodie that you are wearing in this video and several others. Looks like a nice mid layer jacket.
And...to keep the Silky closed, I just throw a ranger band around it.
But you shouldn't need to do that with such an expensive saw.
Merry Christmas and Happy New year. My wife and I love your videos. They are very informative.
I was told as a youngster.. Always let the saw do the work, don't force it. I prefer to use a small bow saw for cutting.
Merry Christmas Lilly and thank you for all your videos :)
i love my big bob dustrude bow saw, and replacement blades are very common and easy to obtain . Now my Silky big boy XL is awsome ,it did take time to learn the correct pull only with minimal downward pressure . But wow just letting it cut is so effortless.I am looking forward to owning a Silky Katana 650 in the future , going to make a huge Siberian log fire like Survival Russia/ Lars
Lilly, that tepee is going mouldy, you need to light some fires to dry it out.
The silky takes some getting used to, you are using it wrong...you should try the silky katana series they cut amazingly well, but you still need to understand and practice with them to get to the most use out of them.
Thank you .
Cutting branches with a bow saw, just turn the blade upside down when necessary.
The Boreal21 is pretty expensive for a saw ($100) but it looks really nice. Definitely something I'd consider saving up for to use for camping and bushcraft.
i have two bowsaws, my larger one looks just like your father's, i even painted my saws orange too. makes it easier to see in the brush when it's a dim light forest. i have the smaller version too. i take an old garden hose, split it, and make a blade cover. it straps to a molle system. one of these days i'll get a katana boy, they're just too good to pass up, but pricey.