Great analysis as usual. Personally, I like to think of Tenebrous as being a terrifying duelist comparable to Yoda in terms of speed, skill, and deadliness. Darth Tenebrous has no accolades to speak of, but nothing I've read refutes my notion of him being as deadly as Yoda.
They all laughed at me. The WHOLE GALAXY sat and laughed!!! They said I would never become the greatest musician...so I made their pained screams my drumbeat, the burning houses the melody and the silence that follows the crescendo of my masterpiece!
I love the balanced approach of Sith like Sidious, Plagueis, and Tenebrouis. They demonstrate that to achieve power one must bring to bear more than just force might or martial prowess. There is also political acumen, a keen financial and business impetus, and near flawless mathematical, engineering, and scientific methodology. Great job, by the way, on evaluating Tenebrous with next to nothing to go on.
It's amazing you were able to create a deep character sheet and theory based on very minimal information available on Tenebrous. To me he continues to be a Dark Lord, a Master dark lord of Bane's Sith line, well prepared, and haunting scary, never to be underestimated, a caution of respect need be taken, that's the Darth Bane line, strong. Awesome video. Thanks
@@ChristianProtossDragoon lol how? Would you rather he just say "he's a sith lord" and that's it. No. You go in depth when examining a character. That shows how much research and one knows about the lore and isn't just some fool who speaks bullshit and acts like they know what they are talking about.
@@ChristianProtossDragoon "How Powerful was Darth Tenebrous?" *Entire video is about the dueling, tactical prowess, and force abilities of the sith lord* Yeah, its totally clickbait.
Honestly, Darth Tenebrous is one of my favorite Dark Lords; a genius, cerebral being who could probably still crush many other foes. I'm sure part of it is actually that we don't know much; as an avid role-player, I love that he's an established character, yet also one I could make my own decisions on, but the fact that he is really smart, and also pretty capable, make me like him. If they ever make a High Republic show, I'll be keeping an eye out for any stray Bith starship engineers. I do believe his red lightning is actual Crimson Lightning, meaning he could sever the Force from those he uses it on. I'm not sure how well he can actually use that; if his foes would just deflect it with their lightsabers, but it is a powerful ability. I certainly won't say much is wrong with this video; he's an aged egg head being compared against some of the greatest examples of his kind, but I would say I wonder how much it should matter that Plagueis waited till he did to finally kill the Bith Sith. Plagueis wasn't usually uncautious, even before he was almost assassinated, and needed the rebreather, but he didn't try to kill Tenebrous early. It's said they weren't always the most allied; Tenebrous wasn't really training Plagueis much, since he was planning to body-snatch him, and he even decided to scrap that, and train Venamus. That is to say Plagueis might have felt he wasn't going to get more out of Tenebrous, and so could afford to kill him, but he didn't. I'm inclined to believe that would be, in part, because he knew some of how powerful his master was. And sure, Plagueis had time to increase his own power post-Baldemnik, before he got Sidious, so maybe he wasn't as mighty that day as, say, when he killed the former King of Naboo, but he was skilled, and yet didn't capitalize on it. As you said, we shouldn't just assume that Tenebrous and Plagueis were the same person, with the same skills and abilities, but I like to think Tenebrous had to be pretty formidable, even for someone like Darth Plagueis, if the Muun was so concerned about trying, and waited for the major distraction-circumstance, instead of simply felling the old Bith with his own might and skill. Definitely a fun video! As was mentioned, Darth Tenebrous can be painfully underrepresented, leaving lots of gaps, and most videos just talk about the same two or so things regarding him, so this was a lot of fun to watch, since I have an appreciation for the character. Thanks!
Don't forget his age, as you keep pointing out. 100 years past his race's natural limit speaks volumes. One point I would make, however, is that (as a Sith) has managed to live that long. Dooku, OTOH, was only half his age. You also state that he was massively intelligent. With age comes wisdom. I don't think Dooku would have survived 3 seconds against Tenabrous. Dooku may have strength and whatnot on his side, but Tenebrous had experience, craftiness and outright "tenacious"-ness to out manoeuvre Dooku before the fight even began. I'd bet Dooku would only know that he was even there y the point of a red sabre sticking out of his chest. Tenabrous would know not to face off against Dooku in a fair fight.
Yeah, but Dooku (even as a Jedi), has the skill in sensory abilities to sense Tenebrous. And, if he can sense Tenebrous, then he wins. His saber skills are very much ahead of what Tenebrous could likely put out. The same can be said for his Force abilities. Dooku has much more refined combative sensibilities and much more knowledge. Dooku would absolutely slam Tenebrous. It would end somewhat better for Tenebrous than Obi-Wan Kenobi, but not by too much.
When Tenebrous, and Plagueis were at their prime, and during Palpatine's younger years remember the Sith were in hiding. The Jedi believed they had destroyed the Sith, and the Sith first openly "came back" during the events of the Phantom Menace. They wouldn't have had a lot of dueling experience, none with the Jedi, and relied more on Sith alchemy. More likely they learned with training droids and slaughtering wild animals, or perhaps sometimes with their masters. Palpatine considered lightsabers "Jedi's Weapons." Dooku had been dueling ALL his life with other Jedi masters. Plagueis said that Dooku was a better duelist than Sidious himself, Sidious was glad to get Dooku on his side.
Dooku's achievements. 1 - as a 70 yr old jedi master he defeated mace windu and mace windu never defeated him. 2 - as a 58 yr old jedi during the battle of galidraan he beat jango fett (who mace windu claimed could have killed him on Genosis). 3 - as a tiring 83 yr old he took out obi wan kenobi during ROTS two times the same Kenobi defeated Grievous & darkside Anakin. 4 - as a 81 year old male he used force lightning to injure and electrocute the ears of master Yoda on planet Tatooine. 5 - in AOTC he fought Yoda to a draw as per the novel Yoda was more tired than dooku after that fight was done. 6 - in legends he defeated Sora Bulq, Tholme together while mace windu struggled against just Bulq alone. 7 - he defeated quinlan vos four time's (who had cortosis gauntlets and knew multiple form's). 8 - he one shotted anakin in AOTC (who just months later competed with asajj ventress whose on par with Mace). 9 - dooku also won against kenobi and anakin together in season six of TCW after kenobi alone bested maul, savage etc combined on florrum & darth maul alone was a match for the pair of mace/aayla in SOD (son of dathomir). 10 - dooku was considered a higher level fighter than mother talzin by Palpatine himself.
“Tenebrous would have known not to face Dooku in a fair fight.” Exactly! The content creator made a very nice video but he placed way too high value on technique over intelligence, which probably many of Tenebrous’ victims made a similar final mistake
if we were to see how tenebrous trained Plaguies and Palpathine after him, I can tell he is a beast with a saber. Since strength in strikes is not his strong suit, his speed would be a truly scary sight to be seen. I think that if he were to fight Yoda in his prime, he would really give the old master a run for his money for real. Also against Count Dooku (as much as I like the count), he would win 9/10. He was just to quick and so ferocious in the Dark Side that he would outmatch Dooku's form 2 by blending form 7 and 4 to attack from all sides. Also seeing how Plaguies and Palpathine were sooo strong in using force lightning, he would be pretty much similar to them in terms of knowledge. To further add to this, seeing as to how much of the force Plaguies had to call upon to keep up with his master on the mine speaks volumes about his strength. I believe that Tenebrous is very underrated.
I think one of the biggest points of how capable Sidious was as a combatant with a lightsaber was the fact that a man who had essentially zero lightsaber combat practice for years, and someone who never had actual combat experience beyond sparring with an extremely limited set of enemies-... namely his Master or his master's side projects, is that Sidious, only two Sith generations later, was able to essentially instagib MULTIPLE Jedi council members- and push Mace Windu, the greatest duelist of his era in the opinion of the Jedi of his time-... to his absolute maximum potential, and then stalemated him, if not surpassed him (some argue that he only "lost" due to waiting for Anakin to show up for Sithly Plot Purposes), means something VERY significant about late Baneite Rule of 2 Sith: They didn't -have- to be "good" with a lightsaber to be nearly unbeatable. They only had to amp up the Force enhancement of raw SPEED to the point that they could overwhelm essentially anyone except the very best of the Jedi- and its worth noting, that Yoda got wrecked by Sidious, again, who only had two Sith generations between himself and Tenebrous. IF we accept the Legends lore that Rule of 2 Sith DID improve in force power, and general competency between generations... I think Tenebrous would be a match for any single Jedi in The Clone Wars, excepting those that Sidious had to work hard to beat. But I've noticed a lot of folks like to simply reject the Rule of 2 as working, consider it stupid and pointless, and show no respect for the legend's continuity's stated rules of how the Dark Side and Light Side work- especially when the two are not in balance. When the Light is winning in numbers and dominance, the Dark grows in power exponentially. The same thing seems to occur when Sith are winning. If I had one thing to say as a general Force Rule: Whatever you do, don't reduce the other faction down to one or two persons. That Jedi will rise up, and wreck your shit. Same thing goes in reverse. Bane understood this- Sidious forgot it.
+Isaac Frazier Here are my thoughts on this. The Rule of 2 Sith are similar to Bane in that many of them have academic mastery of lightsaber combat, but lack of aliveness (due to lack of live combat experience) can screw them over at times. Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, and killed multiple Jedi Council masters through insane force augmentation and distraction, not skill. To be fair, we can assume every single rule of 2 Sith Lord should be at least Council Master level (unless stated/proven otherwise). But on average, they lack fluidity and their skillsets are over specialized (though to be fair, a majority of Jedi have over specialized skill sets to). As for EU stating mult times that Rule of 2 got better with each generation, I take it with a grain of salt. For example, what if someone in the line dies somehow and had a half trained apprentice take over? At bare min, the Rule of 2 who actually succeeded the past should be overall comparable to Bane. I am not rejecting the EU' statements about the rule of 2, its been stated multiple times from various sources. But I do take it with a grain of salt. But then again, these are just my thoughts and I'm probably not the most credible person here.
Bane created the rule of two to allow the sith to rise in power so that they could eventually destroy all the jedi, not leave them alive. Idk if I'm missing something you're saying, but Bane's ultimate goal was to destroy all the jedi through the rule of two.
@@maxx8011 I don't know about you, but I know 2 things. 1. Interesting text is interesting, even if harder to read. 2. I left single line empty between the beginning and 1 point and did the same between points 1 and 2. Let's see how TH-cam represents it today. Because for the last 1,5 year it made far bigger spaces between the lines.
And? Zannah was reliant on sorcery, Dooku was still frail, despite his fitness, kit fisto is weak in one on one combat. Every character has something that makes them "weak" that's how you make balanced characters that are not too powerful.
I enjoyed this. I can actually say Darth Tenebrous is a Sirh Lord i like; his more grounded focus, and incorporation of things beyond the Force and the lightsaber is neat. He's also vague enough that, if I were running a Star Wars table top RPG in that era, it could be fun to incorporate him, without my players just guessing who he was. One thing that surprised me; no mention of Ataru. My own takes on the different forms of lifhtsaber combat aren't perfect or all-inclusive, and I usually assume most Sith don't develop their saber skills so closely to Jedi duelists, but for a Dexterity-based, Force-enhancing elder practitioner, well it served Yoda so well, I might've expected at least a mention. Still, a very fun video, and a nice look at a support character we don't often see any focus on, so thanks fir doing it.
Awesome video Hilarious at 8:34 Also I have a few ideas for the How Powerful Was series: Corran Horn Ahsoka Tano (Rebels) Depa Billaba Mara Jade Skywalker Darth Maladi Darth Revan Darth Wyyrlok III Cade Skywalker
I appreciate the intellectual challenge. ALOT of Guess work based logic and the like, only had access to his apprentices opinion own skills/ his lineage via rule of two, and age/physicality. still appreciate it. feels like a... anthropology esque stab at it or something. thank you for the video.
@Papa Dragon At least the greatest of his era, but as he pointed out in his Marka Ragnos video lightsaber combat has developed immensely since his time. I wonder how he would fair against say a master of Vaapad like Windu?
Try how powerful was Darth Malgus. I'm certain he would solo Count Dooku in Force combat, though if he wasn't Force-Sensitive, I think Dooku, one of the best lightsaber duelists in Sith history, would be the winner.
@@mikeor- I wouldn't quite say that. Dooku doesn't have a lot of Force feats of pure power, but he is powerful enough to take most of what's being thrown at him. The only area he could be beaten by Malgus is if they resorted to lightsaber combat, both of their preferred tactics. Malgus just has immense raw strength and Dooku has proven he can't withstand power blows the likes that Anakin can dish out for too long. But he might be able to out-duel Malgus. It must be noted that the Rule of Two Sith were much stronger than the Sith that came before. Not to mention Dooku was an official apprentice, unlike Maul, so he did know a pretty substantial amount of Sith lore and likely knew the tricks Malgus would employ. If he were to beat Malgus. He would beat him by evading and deflecting his power blows rather than tanking, or by outsmarting him through more intelligent and tactical usage of the Force. Not to say Malgus is stupid, he most certainly isn't. But compared to someone like Dooku his usage of the Force is blunt and orthodox, whereas Dooku is shown to know the esoteric and the contemporary. So I personally feel he would beat him if the Force came up, but has a substantial chance of being battered to death if his saber battle goes in for too long. I would think Dooku would take it 6 or 7 times out of 10.
*Suggestions for further character explorations:* Peret/Lord Cronal/Blackhole/Shadowspawn Sariss Ajunta Pall Darth Marr Tulak Hord Desann Pong Krell Darth Wyyrlok III Prince Arcann Kharys Roan Fel Karness Muur Odan-Urr Vitiate/Valkorion Darth Jadus King Ommin Lord Drammath Lord Odion with the Helm of Ieldis Sek'nos Rath Kina Ha
I imagine Darth Tenebrous’ style similar to Vader with short defensive maneuvers with cautious pushing. Just the first thing I imagined with an old, frail, yet powerful Bith.
Yo this guys voice is awesome to fall asleep to. Keep up the good work dude watching your videos got me into the Star Wars EU and now i can't get enough of it. 10/10 content.
Neither Plaguis or Sidious was more powerful than their masters when they slew them. It's even worse that neither Master passed on all their knowledge. They poisoned the objective of Banes Rule of 2.
Watching this after watching the Acolyte (which I enjoyed, I know a lot of ppl didn’t) was fun given all my Tenebrous theories and the fact that I’m also a big fan of the Plagueis novel. Tenebrous is underrated as hell. “We Sith are an unseen opposition. A Phantom Menace. Where we once wore armor, we now wear cloaks, yet the force works through us all the more in our invisibility. Our rise will be achieved not by subjugation, but by contagion.”
The goal of the rule of two wasn’t for every Sith Lord and apprentice to fight the Jedi in lightsaber battles. It was to pass knowledge on to the next until time to destroy them permanently. The sith have always been better duelist as a whole.
agree my g. Just a reminder that every Sith in Bane' lineage has grown from Bane himself. All of Bane's knowledge and the line were always improving in terms of the for e and saber
AWESOME job bro!! IDK that much about said topic, but the narration and editing are much appreciated. Thank you for your time, research, and passion for our entertainment!
As Sith scientists, I always wished that Tenebrous and Plageuis didn't kill each other "one to hold the power, the other to crave." Rather, once surpassed by Plague, he acknowledged it, and continued his scholarly pursuits, and allowed Plagueis to teach a new apprentice. They could have started the "Rule of Retirement" while preserving the necessary "Rule of Two." This would have created a reverse hierarchy and a failsafe in case the current Master/Apprentice died. The goal would have been to continue recruiting level headed individuals. The next apprentice should have been Count Dooku, while Palpatine was overlooked, because even though Palpatine was stronger than Dooku, he couldn't be trusted as a rational scientist. Only when a being so powerful (like Anakin or Rey) was found, would all of the retired masters finally congregate and teach this student to become the Sith'ari, all of them imparting their knowledge and experience to the Sith'ari and each other for the final confrontation. Imagine for a moment the Sith remaining patient, having Tenebrous, Plagueis, Dooku, Anakin, Luke+Leia and Rey when they unleashed a virus, clone trooper order 66 (with Dooku as the chancellor), had Anakin betray them from the inside, with Anakin's hidden twins (Luke and Leia) finally revealed carving up the temple, with the Sith'ari herself, Rey, embarrassing Yoda and Windu in a 1v2 admist the chaos.
Very well done. Maybe Darth Cognus next? Anyway, nitpicks: In the physical section, Tenebrous's superhuman sensory perceptions seemed to have been ignored. First, Bith have extremely advanced hearing, which is both a blessing and a curse. Second, if i remember the novel correctly, both his sight and smell were both more advanced than Plagueis's and an average human's. Also, bith have one lung placing a possible, albeit hypothetical, cap on oxygen and resistance to chest wounds. Speaking of, maybe the tubes are oxygen tubes considering his age? Although this is speculation, it is worth thinking about. For your lightsaber analysis section, I do think that a little more attention should have been given to his apprentices styles as he did teach them and, as you often note, Plagueis has no passion to advance it anywhere, so it would likely be on par. Still, I think your analysis is as fair as we can give him. However, I think an age estimate of 180 is a bit unfair as the numbers are vague. For all we know, he only trained under his master for a decade or two, as Twi'leks have human-like age restrictions, and his time training Plagueis could have been as little as 40-60 considering that 'most humans' aren't incredibly old and we don't have to assume he is talking about an entire lifetime. So really, 100 -130 years is closer to the mark for me. As for your theory on his abilities, that passage puzzled me as well, but it is possible that it was referring to primarily Plagueis's lightning while his own was still red. This would mean that Plagueis is able to generate a greater storm as it would have drowned out the red. I say this because 'their fingertips' while seeming to refer to both of them could just mean that both shot lightning, but it was predominately blue. Another possibility is that the blue is the Ionize ability, but we are just blowing smoke at this point. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but when transferring to Plagueis, didn't he specifically note how much more powerful Plagueis is in raw ability? This could again set a cap on his hypothetical power. Also, I personally don't think he could take Kolar, but thats just me.
Love this latest installment, and putting his story into my must read books. Also would to see one bout Vitatae and his Valkorian persona I feel like alot people don't have firm grasp how strong is his place in the Star Wars power higharcry.
Peace is a lie there is only PASSION Through passion I gain STRENGTH Through strength I gain POWER Through power I gain VICTORY The force shall free me.”
I want the next "How powerful was" video to be about Bant Eerin, Obi-wan Kenobi's oldest friend. I really want to know what your opinions on where she is in terms of power in the Star Wars universe. I believe that she is a tier 2 Jedi Council level master like Obi-wan Kenobi, Plo Koon, and Shaak Ti. Thank you very much.
Really wish there was more info on Tenebrous. Super interesting character. IMO he set a lot of the groundwork’s for the grand manipulation that Sidious finished.
Hey Evan, are you excited for the chance to see Jocasta Nu in a lightsaber duel? She's supposed to be fighting Darth Vader in the new comics, and I know you've been really disappointed with the lack of her characterization.
I know that the Fightsaber article is most likely referring specifically to Count Dooku when it says “Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.” But I can’t help but feel like Form II would have been an integral part of a Sith’s training, especially if the Order of the Sith Lords was aware that the Jedi rarely study lightsaber to lightsaber combat in the era leading up to the clone wars. A Sith did not have to dedicate him or herself to Form II, but be proficient enough in its use if one was to unexpectedly cross paths with a Jedi. Count Dooku was one of a very few Jedi in his era that actively practiced Form II and he used that to his advantage against Jedi during the clone wars.
Great video! I view Tenebrous as more like a Batman sith. If he has prep time, he's going to be successful - if he were pulling up on Dooku, he'd have had a plan to do so. Seems like the type of guy if you catch him slipping it's an easy clap. I would love to see some of these Sith Legends in action. Even if it's just plotting and scheming type stuff. Like what does a Sith master do with his side hustle of Master Ship Builder? There's money and power at his disposal similar to Dooku from that. Does he amass small fleets of super-advanced ships and beat other people in Space battles? Super interesting stuff to me. Like he can't beat Dooku in a sabre battle but Admiral Tenebrous beats Captain Dooku in a fighter or something like that.
Here are some suggests: -Mara Jade Skywalker. -Orgus Din. -Dark Empire Luke Skywalker (He has been both overstated and underestimated by the confrontation with the Darth Sidious Clone). -Siri Tachi -Lumayia
I've been waiting for you to release a video so long! When this popped up I excited out of my video and immediately clicked it. 18th view! Also, when will the versus series finale be coming?
Very good deductions. It sounds like, though he hasn't been depicted in a story apart from his introduction in the "Darth Plagueis" novel and "The Tenebrous Way", both of which were very brief appearances and at the end of his life and posthumously (respectively), that Darth Tenebrous' fighting style may have been (I'm just guessing) similar to a Yoda-like swordsman wielding the physicality and mentality much more closely to either Count Dooku or Darth Vader (conservative and calculating), with a little of his own technique, and his enjoyment of a good duel mixed in.
I'm always excited to see a Council Forcecaster (other than Antoine) put up a new video. First Grey Jedi and now Evan! Especially when they do videos on the less-analyzed and underrated characters.
How about a hypothetical fight between Darth Tenebrous and Marka Ragnos? Both had very similar strategic outlooks and both had insane levels of academic knowledge. But at the same time, they were complete opposites. Tenebrous was a speed and dexterity fighter, while Ragnos was a strength fighter. Tenebrous was a sith scientist, while Ragnos was a sith sorcerer.
It is stuff like this that makes me wish that they would make a book series on the Rule of Two Sith between the end of the Bane Trilogy and the beginning Darth Plagueis. You could have it be around 9-12 books and have Drew Karpyshyn, Joe Schreiber, James Luceno, Sean Williams, and Matthew Stover write it. I think that would be awesome.
Well, he did manage to burst a light sight bubble of sorts (or at least shrink it) that surrounded the Jedi Temple. While we don't know whether it was his master's idea, we can assume that he understood the basics of the "more esotherical aspects of the force". He was an apprentice at the time. Plagueis and Palps do something similar later in the Plagueis novel. They meditated for days. I think it's reasonable to assume that he did have at least a basic understanding of more, well, obsure, magical aspects of the force.
There are so many novels to write along the Bane lineage man ;-; I think they could do a legitimately amenable full fledged trilogy on this guy. I mean its a backward concurrance; the political power of the banite sith spear shinning brightest through Palpatine, its financial power shinning through Plaguies, and its scientific and technological power shining through Tenebrous.
Years late to the discussion and I know your understanding probably has changed since you uploaded this but anyways: Judging Tenebrous`s lightsaber combat technique is simply impossible because we don`t have any data, and your guess is just that, it`s not even an educated guess. Sidious was a living husk aged over 60 years old when he faced Windu and Yoda, yet used a power and speed based offensive technique (likely Djem So and Juyo? Maybe some Makashi in there as well), Yoda was freakin 800something years old and used Ataru basically exclusivly, Dooku used Makashi BEFORE he turned old. Age, native physical ability and tactical sense had little impact on the fighting form of these high level masters because they could easily draw on the force to overcome their physical weakness or simply preferred a certain style (in Dooku`s case it was most likely vanity and elitetism that made him choose Makashi). Using physical appearance or age is not a valid way to deduce combat prowess when we talk about high level masters.
I mean... even the best and strongest practitioners of essence transfer would def have their work cut out for them trying it on tyranis. Bro has iron strength of willpower is incredibly intelligent AND an extremely adapt and practiced force user. While not the most powerful Sith ever by any means, he's no pushover and may well be the greatest practitioner of form 2 to have ever existed, and was in his own right quite the powerful force user. I agree with your outcome almost 100%
Hey evan great video as always but I who like to make a suggestion. Can you compare a Jedi knight to a real world late medieval knight. In this situation the knights weapons will be entirely plasma proof and his armor will be plasma resistant but not proof. The force will not be used by the jedi and in this fight we will only be looking at the jedis martial arts and skill compared the knights of the late medieval age. What do you think.
Sidious is a master of all seven forms of lightsaber and he could not have learned these skills otherwise than from his master, If we take in consideration that there were no major upgrades of the lightsaber skills possesses by the dark lords between Tenebrous and Sidious due to the way they killed their masters and due to the fact that no one but Tenebrous could have taught Plagueis the seven lightsaber forms, i think and it's only my opinion, that Tenebrous lightsaber skills were at the same level as Darth Sidious in revenge of the Sith, i think the Sith from the rule of two era reached their peak in terms of lightsaber skills around or before the Tenebrous era.
Revan would beat every one and then turn out Juhani and Bastilla. He teaches them force powers that are solely for the purpose of his bodily pleasure and that becomes their role. Revans Defenders by day and spunkdumpsters by night.
Tenebrous might have been able to use two different types of Sith lighting where one might be stronger against droids and the other more intense against living organisms and even possibly being a mixture of force drain/lightning (for the red lightning if it was red force lighting). Would be cool to see if they would complete a series for them or all of the rule of 2 Sith so we can get a full story going through the generations. The Sith are known to live far longer than each of their species live on average so unless the Sith Lord was killed in combat or by their apprentice that they would live far past their normal life cycle that would have far less of a line of master/apprentice than what would be doing the entire Jedi story line as well. They could have some of the smaller encounters of Sith vs Jedi but in the shadows to gauge out the enemies better and they could use it to bring more prevalent Jedi to the forefront when the Jedi try to figure out why they keep having Jedi be killed on a regular basis over the generations of the rule of 2 Sith.
@Wes-Bradley Taubner The proof was when Anakin was used as a prop when he had the high ground that was just an example of the high ground power in action.
Evan bro! I have two versus suggestions. Mace Windu vs Kyle Katarn; and Mara Jade vs Prime Adoka Tano. Please look into it. I'd love to see you and Antoine do a collaboration on Jade vs Asoka. Thanks!
Mara far outclasses Ahsoka.Mara would've most likely beaten Jacen Solo if it wasn't for him throwing up an illusion of Ben at the last moment. Ahsoka held her own against Vader, but ultimately lost (although we never saw the end of the fight). Ahsoka is on the level of a just-above-average Jedi Knight at the prime at best. Mara is on the level of a top tier Jedi Master. It's not really an even fight at all -- Mara is simply on another tier to Ahsoka.P.S. I only now realise you said "Mara Jade" not "Mara Jade Skywalker." If you're referring to Mara as the Emperor's Hand, I don't know enough about her at that time to back up any points. Still, I see Mara taking the win.
Vaapad wouldn't be all that effective against Katarn. I see Windu ultimately winning, though I definitely wouldn't say he "outclasses Kyle in every way".
How powerful was Darth Malak? Every time I think of him in KOTOR, I see him as more of a "textbook" sith, well above average and covers all bases, but still doesn't go beyond basic sith knowledge and abilities, just like Maul, Malgus, and Talon (although arguments can be made for them). I was wondering if he was beyond that, or weaker than the sith I mentioned.
Tenebrous was powerful enough that Plagueis didn't fight him but instead used cowardly means to stop him, like sidious did to him, and sidious was beyond powerful, but plagueis is stronger than sidious as shown by that and tenebrous was stronger than plagueis.
+EvanNova95 Another good vid Evan, I eagerly await the next one. I would like to recommend how powerful was: Darth Wyrrlok III, Exar Kun, Oppo Rancisis, Jolee Bindo, Corran Horn, and Ferus Olin. If I could make a recommendation on Versus Series: Jaina Solo-Fel vs. Ahsoka Tano(Star Wars Rebels) and Ferus Olin vs. Zayne Carrick. Keep up the good work and MTFBWY.
Awww quit pestering him mates! I'm super jazzed to see new content too, but this young man surely has much life to grapple with beyond TH-cam. I for one am content with whatever he happens to manage. Keep slayin' Evan!!
"His appearances across various media are ridiculously sparse. And his design doesn't invoke that much fear." Sounds like me lol
Y
When a Jazz musician had enough
Jizz
*Jazz music stops*
Nice one!
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When the pay in the cantina band isn’t enough so you join the dark side
When someone stops the cantina tunes
Great analysis as usual. Personally, I like to think of Tenebrous as being a terrifying duelist comparable to Yoda in terms of speed, skill, and deadliness. Darth Tenebrous has no accolades to speak of, but nothing I've read refutes my notion of him being as deadly as Yoda.
They all laughed at me. The WHOLE GALAXY sat and laughed!!! They said I would never become the greatest musician...so I made their pained screams my drumbeat, the burning houses the melody and the silence that follows the crescendo of my masterpiece!
I love the balanced approach of Sith like Sidious, Plagueis, and Tenebrouis. They demonstrate that to achieve power one must bring to bear more than just force might or martial prowess. There is also political acumen, a keen financial and business impetus, and near flawless mathematical, engineering, and scientific methodology. Great job, by the way, on evaluating Tenebrous with next to nothing to go on.
It's amazing you were able to create a deep character sheet and theory based on very minimal information available on Tenebrous. To me he continues to be a Dark Lord, a Master dark lord of Bane's Sith line, well prepared, and haunting scary, never to be underestimated, a caution of respect need be taken, that's the Darth Bane line, strong. Awesome video. Thanks
He stretches the video.
@@ChristianProtossDragoon lol how? Would you rather he just say "he's a sith lord" and that's it. No. You go in depth when examining a character. That shows how much research and one knows about the lore and isn't just some fool who speaks bullshit and acts like they know what they are talking about.
@@lapplandkun9273 The title is clickbait. That is my point. Lmao
@@ChristianProtossDragoon "How Powerful was Darth Tenebrous?"
*Entire video is about the dueling, tactical prowess, and force abilities of the sith lord*
Yeah, its totally clickbait.
@@lapplandkun9273 Lmao. I said he stretches it. 🤣
I forgot about this guy. Glad to see you're still alive mate.
You too!
Honestly, Darth Tenebrous is one of my favorite Dark Lords; a genius, cerebral being who could probably still crush many other foes. I'm sure part of it is actually that we don't know much; as an avid role-player, I love that he's an established character, yet also one I could make my own decisions on, but the fact that he is really smart, and also pretty capable, make me like him. If they ever make a High Republic show, I'll be keeping an eye out for any stray Bith starship engineers.
I do believe his red lightning is actual Crimson Lightning, meaning he could sever the Force from those he uses it on. I'm not sure how well he can actually use that; if his foes would just deflect it with their lightsabers, but it is a powerful ability.
I certainly won't say much is wrong with this video; he's an aged egg head being compared against some of the greatest examples of his kind, but I would say I wonder how much it should matter that Plagueis waited till he did to finally kill the Bith Sith. Plagueis wasn't usually uncautious, even before he was almost assassinated, and needed the rebreather, but he didn't try to kill Tenebrous early. It's said they weren't always the most allied; Tenebrous wasn't really training Plagueis much, since he was planning to body-snatch him, and he even decided to scrap that, and train Venamus. That is to say Plagueis might have felt he wasn't going to get more out of Tenebrous, and so could afford to kill him, but he didn't. I'm inclined to believe that would be, in part, because he knew some of how powerful his master was. And sure, Plagueis had time to increase his own power post-Baldemnik, before he got Sidious, so maybe he wasn't as mighty that day as, say, when he killed the former King of Naboo, but he was skilled, and yet didn't capitalize on it. As you said, we shouldn't just assume that Tenebrous and Plagueis were the same person, with the same skills and abilities, but I like to think Tenebrous had to be pretty formidable, even for someone like Darth Plagueis, if the Muun was so concerned about trying, and waited for the major distraction-circumstance, instead of simply felling the old Bith with his own might and skill.
Definitely a fun video! As was mentioned, Darth Tenebrous can be painfully underrepresented, leaving lots of gaps, and most videos just talk about the same two or so things regarding him, so this was a lot of fun to watch, since I have an appreciation for the character. Thanks!
Don't forget his age, as you keep pointing out. 100 years past his race's natural limit speaks volumes. One point I would make, however, is that (as a Sith) has managed to live that long. Dooku, OTOH, was only half his age. You also state that he was massively intelligent. With age comes wisdom. I don't think Dooku would have survived 3 seconds against Tenabrous. Dooku may have strength and whatnot on his side, but Tenebrous had experience, craftiness and outright "tenacious"-ness to out manoeuvre Dooku before the fight even began. I'd bet Dooku would only know that he was even there y the point of a red sabre sticking out of his chest. Tenabrous would know not to face off against Dooku in a fair fight.
Yeah, but Dooku (even as a Jedi), has the skill in sensory abilities to sense Tenebrous. And, if he can sense Tenebrous, then he wins. His saber skills are very much ahead of what Tenebrous could likely put out. The same can be said for his Force abilities. Dooku has much more refined combative sensibilities and much more knowledge. Dooku would absolutely slam Tenebrous. It would end somewhat better for Tenebrous than Obi-Wan Kenobi, but not by too much.
When Tenebrous, and Plagueis were at their prime, and during Palpatine's younger years remember the Sith were in hiding. The Jedi believed they had destroyed the Sith, and the Sith first openly "came back" during the events of the Phantom Menace. They wouldn't have had a lot of dueling experience, none with the Jedi, and relied more on Sith alchemy. More likely they learned with training droids and slaughtering wild animals, or perhaps sometimes with their masters. Palpatine considered lightsabers "Jedi's Weapons." Dooku had been dueling ALL his life with other Jedi masters. Plagueis said that Dooku was a better duelist than Sidious himself, Sidious was glad to get Dooku on his side.
Dooku's achievements.
1 - as a 70 yr old jedi master he defeated mace windu and mace windu never defeated him.
2 - as a 58 yr old jedi during the battle of galidraan he beat jango fett (who mace windu claimed could have killed him on Genosis).
3 - as a tiring 83 yr old he took out obi wan kenobi during ROTS two times the same Kenobi defeated Grievous & darkside Anakin.
4 - as a 81 year old male he used force lightning to injure and electrocute the ears of master Yoda on planet Tatooine.
5 - in AOTC he fought Yoda to a draw as per the novel Yoda was more tired than dooku after that fight was done.
6 - in legends he defeated Sora Bulq, Tholme together while mace windu struggled against just Bulq alone.
7 - he defeated quinlan vos four time's (who had cortosis gauntlets and knew multiple form's).
8 - he one shotted anakin in AOTC (who just months later competed with asajj ventress whose on par with Mace).
9 - dooku also won against kenobi and anakin together in season six of TCW after kenobi alone bested maul, savage etc combined on florrum & darth maul alone was a match for the pair of mace/aayla in SOD (son of dathomir).
10 - dooku was considered a higher level fighter than mother talzin by Palpatine himself.
Tenebre/vitiate lived over 1500 years
“Tenebrous would have known not to face Dooku in a fair fight.” Exactly! The content creator made a very nice video but he placed way too high value on technique over intelligence, which probably many of Tenebrous’ victims made a similar final mistake
EXPLANATION: lightning in the real world often appears in different colors depending on the most common elements in the atmosphere at the time
if we were to see how tenebrous trained Plaguies and Palpathine after him, I can tell he is a beast with a saber. Since strength in strikes is not his strong suit, his speed would be a truly scary sight to be seen. I think that if he were to fight Yoda in his prime, he would really give the old master a run for his money for real. Also against Count Dooku (as much as I like the count), he would win 9/10. He was just to quick and so ferocious in the Dark Side that he would outmatch Dooku's form 2 by blending form 7 and 4 to attack from all sides. Also seeing how Plaguies and Palpathine were sooo strong in using force lightning, he would be pretty much similar to them in terms of knowledge. To further add to this, seeing as to how much of the force Plaguies had to call upon to keep up with his master on the mine speaks volumes about his strength. I believe that Tenebrous is very underrated.
I think one of the biggest points of how capable Sidious was as a combatant with a lightsaber was the fact that a man who had essentially zero lightsaber combat practice for years, and someone who never had actual combat experience beyond sparring with an extremely limited set of enemies-... namely his Master or his master's side projects, is that Sidious, only two Sith generations later, was able to essentially instagib MULTIPLE Jedi council members- and push Mace Windu, the greatest duelist of his era in the opinion of the Jedi of his time-... to his absolute maximum potential, and then stalemated him, if not surpassed him (some argue that he only "lost" due to waiting for Anakin to show up for Sithly Plot Purposes), means something VERY significant about late Baneite Rule of 2 Sith: They didn't -have- to be "good" with a lightsaber to be nearly unbeatable. They only had to amp up the Force enhancement of raw SPEED to the point that they could overwhelm essentially anyone except the very best of the Jedi- and its worth noting, that Yoda got wrecked by Sidious, again, who only had two Sith generations between himself and Tenebrous. IF we accept the Legends lore that Rule of 2 Sith DID improve in force power, and general competency between generations... I think Tenebrous would be a match for any single Jedi in The Clone Wars, excepting those that Sidious had to work hard to beat. But I've noticed a lot of folks like to simply reject the Rule of 2 as working, consider it stupid and pointless, and show no respect for the legend's continuity's stated rules of how the Dark Side and Light Side work- especially when the two are not in balance. When the Light is winning in numbers and dominance, the Dark grows in power exponentially. The same thing seems to occur when Sith are winning. If I had one thing to say as a general Force Rule: Whatever you do, don't reduce the other faction down to one or two persons. That Jedi will rise up, and wreck your shit. Same thing goes in reverse. Bane understood this- Sidious forgot it.
+Isaac Frazier Here are my thoughts on this. The Rule of 2 Sith are similar to Bane in that many of them have academic mastery of lightsaber combat, but lack of aliveness (due to lack of live combat experience) can screw them over at times. Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, and killed multiple Jedi Council masters through insane force augmentation and distraction, not skill. To be fair, we can assume every single rule of 2 Sith Lord should be at least Council Master level (unless stated/proven otherwise). But on average, they lack fluidity and their skillsets are over specialized (though to be fair, a majority of Jedi have over specialized skill sets to). As for EU stating mult times that Rule of 2 got better with each generation, I take it with a grain of salt. For example, what if someone in the line dies somehow and had a half trained apprentice take over? At bare min, the Rule of 2 who actually succeeded the past should be overall comparable to Bane. I am not rejecting the EU' statements about the rule of 2, its been stated multiple times from various sources. But I do take it with a grain of salt. But then again, these are just my thoughts and I'm probably not the most credible person here.
Isaac Frazier Yoda got wrecked by Sidious? What were you smoking while writting this nonsense?
Bane created the rule of two to allow the sith to rise in power so that they could eventually destroy all the jedi, not leave them alive. Idk if I'm missing something you're saying, but Bane's ultimate goal was to destroy all the jedi through the rule of two.
do you expect anyone to read this wall of shit without any line break? i did not... damn wall of text
@@maxx8011 I don't know about you, but I know 2 things.
1. Interesting text is interesting, even if harder to read.
2. I left single line empty between the beginning and 1 point and did the same between points 1 and 2. Let's see how TH-cam represents it today. Because for the last 1,5 year it made far bigger spaces between the lines.
This was put together really well in my opinion.
How powerful is Darth Nihilus?
Dr. Ryan Richtofen His is actually pretty weak
oh yeah pulling entire ships out of Malachor V's gravitational field with TK is certainly a weak feat.
Ákos Kovács He too reliant on force drain
And? Zannah was reliant on sorcery, Dooku was still frail, despite his fitness, kit fisto is weak in one on one combat.
Every character has something that makes them "weak" that's how you make balanced characters that are not too powerful.
Ákos Kovács Dooku isn't frail, and Kit Fisto isn't weak in one-on-one combat.
Dude wtf just happened. You started lecturing us about ideas I didnt even have.
I enjoyed this. I can actually say Darth Tenebrous is a Sirh Lord i like; his more grounded focus, and incorporation of things beyond the Force and the lightsaber is neat. He's also vague enough that, if I were running a Star Wars table top RPG in that era, it could be fun to incorporate him, without my players just guessing who he was.
One thing that surprised me; no mention of Ataru. My own takes on the different forms of lifhtsaber combat aren't perfect or all-inclusive, and I usually assume most Sith don't develop their saber skills so closely to Jedi duelists, but for a Dexterity-based, Force-enhancing elder practitioner, well it served Yoda so well, I might've expected at least a mention.
Still, a very fun video, and a nice look at a support character we don't often see any focus on, so thanks fir doing it.
YESSSSSSSSSS! THIS IS SO AWESOME WAITED SO LONG FOR JUST SOMETHING!
Science!!!
EvanNova95 can you do someone in the KOTOR video games?
EvanNova95 versus season finale?
Awesome video
Hilarious at 8:34
Also I have a few ideas for the How Powerful Was series:
Corran Horn
Ahsoka Tano (Rebels)
Depa Billaba
Mara Jade Skywalker
Darth Maladi
Darth Revan
Darth Wyyrlok III
Cade Skywalker
EvanNova95
Estimated time before season 6 final
I appreciate the intellectual challenge. ALOT of Guess work based logic and the like, only had access to his apprentices opinion own skills/ his lineage via rule of two, and age/physicality. still appreciate it. feels like a... anthropology esque stab at it or something. thank you for the video.
How powerful was Tulak Hord, he is lacking in information but I would like your thoughts
Enginskywalks no way to know for sure. No direct feats just rumors through the grapevine it's sad because he seems like an awesome character
@Papa Dragon At least the greatest of his era, but as he pointed out in his Marka Ragnos video lightsaber combat has developed immensely since his time. I wonder how he would fair against say a master of Vaapad like Windu?
Yeeeeeeeeeeee 😄
Try how powerful was Darth Malgus. I'm certain he would solo Count Dooku in Force combat, though if he wasn't Force-Sensitive, I think Dooku, one of the best lightsaber duelists in Sith history, would be the winner.
@@mikeor- I wouldn't quite say that. Dooku doesn't have a lot of Force feats of pure power, but he is powerful enough to take most of what's being thrown at him. The only area he could be beaten by Malgus is if they resorted to lightsaber combat, both of their preferred tactics. Malgus just has immense raw strength and Dooku has proven he can't withstand power blows the likes that Anakin can dish out for too long. But he might be able to out-duel Malgus. It must be noted that the Rule of Two Sith were much stronger than the Sith that came before. Not to mention Dooku was an official apprentice, unlike Maul, so he did know a pretty substantial amount of Sith lore and likely knew the tricks Malgus would employ. If he were to beat Malgus. He would beat him by evading and deflecting his power blows rather than tanking, or by outsmarting him through more intelligent and tactical usage of the Force. Not to say Malgus is stupid, he most certainly isn't. But compared to someone like Dooku his usage of the Force is blunt and orthodox, whereas Dooku is shown to know the esoteric and the contemporary. So I personally feel he would beat him if the Force came up, but has a substantial chance of being battered to death if his saber battle goes in for too long. I would think Dooku would take it 6 or 7 times out of 10.
*Suggestions for further character explorations:*
Peret/Lord Cronal/Blackhole/Shadowspawn
Sariss
Ajunta Pall
Darth Marr
Tulak Hord
Desann
Pong Krell
Darth Wyyrlok III
Prince Arcann
Kharys
Roan Fel
Karness Muur
Odan-Urr
Vitiate/Valkorion
Darth Jadus
King Ommin
Lord Drammath
Lord Odion with the Helm of Ieldis
Sek'nos Rath
Kina Ha
Cronal would be interesting.
I still wish marr was more popular
What about darth Scabrous
LOL This is a 2 year old comment.
I am surprised you did not put Darth Vitate on the list.
I imagine Darth Tenebrous’ style similar to Vader with short defensive maneuvers with cautious pushing. Just the first thing I imagined with an old, frail, yet powerful Bith.
Powerful Bith
@@Krem_Krem 😭😭
@@Krem_Krem *RISE LORD TENEBROUS, A POWERFUL BITH YOU SHALL BECOME!!*
You can see Darth Tenebrous species playing the flutes at the bar in Star Wars a new hope
I love his design. Something about him is just really cool to me
Yo this guys voice is awesome to fall asleep to. Keep up the good work dude watching your videos got me into the Star Wars EU and now i can't get enough of it. 10/10 content.
Darth Tenebrous the architect
@Lord Cannabis The truest statement I’ve heard yet.
This how powerful was awesome and unexpected. I love speculating on characters and you presented a great case. Keep up the good work.
Damm 5 years since this was uploaded? Felt like yesterday
thank you for making a video on my favorite sith
Goldwolfgamer888x Thank’s for the compliment!
Neither Plaguis or Sidious was more powerful than their masters when they slew them. It's even worse that neither Master passed on all their knowledge. They poisoned the objective of Banes Rule of 2.
Agree 100%
Joseph Moore no george said sidious was the strongest sith in history
@@Isildurwasbetrayed lol
Amen
Wait until Sidious got in his prime.
Watching this after watching the Acolyte (which I enjoyed, I know a lot of ppl didn’t) was fun given all my Tenebrous theories and the fact that I’m also a big fan of the Plagueis novel. Tenebrous is underrated as hell.
“We Sith are an unseen opposition. A Phantom Menace. Where we once wore armor, we now wear cloaks, yet the force works through us all the more in our invisibility. Our rise will be achieved not by subjugation, but by contagion.”
The goal of the rule of two wasn’t for every Sith Lord and apprentice to fight the Jedi in lightsaber battles. It was to pass knowledge on to the next until time to destroy them permanently. The sith have always been better duelist as a whole.
agree my g. Just a reminder that every Sith in Bane' lineage has grown from Bane himself. All of Bane's knowledge and the line were always improving in terms of the for e and saber
The dynamic between tenebrous and plaugius is my favourite
He is a disease that’s why I named him- Darth Plaguesis
How powerful was GM Luke skywalker just for the joke
Too powerful imo, being a literal god just set the bar WAY too high for the rest of the SW Universes characters
Schooter24 it's for a joke plus I can't image that sinario of some unfortunate soul who'd have to fight Luke
SkySlasher well ya of course
Short of Abeloth, yeah nothin takes down GM Luke
Jakub he'd stomp windu and yoda and sidious In a one on one, 2 vs 1 would be more difficult but he'd win due to the crazy feats he has shown.
AWESOME job bro!! IDK that much about said topic, but the narration and editing are much appreciated. Thank you for your time, research, and passion for our entertainment!
Cover... Cover your mouth.
As Sith scientists, I always wished that Tenebrous and Plageuis didn't kill each other "one to hold the power, the other to crave."
Rather, once surpassed by Plague, he acknowledged it, and continued his scholarly pursuits, and allowed Plagueis to teach a new apprentice.
They could have started the "Rule of Retirement" while preserving the necessary "Rule of Two."
This would have created a reverse hierarchy and a failsafe in case the current Master/Apprentice died.
The goal would have been to continue recruiting level headed individuals. The next apprentice should have been Count Dooku, while Palpatine was overlooked, because even though Palpatine was stronger than Dooku, he couldn't be trusted as a rational scientist.
Only when a being so powerful (like Anakin or Rey) was found, would all of the retired masters finally congregate and teach this student to become the Sith'ari, all of them imparting their knowledge and experience to the Sith'ari and each other for the final confrontation.
Imagine for a moment the Sith remaining patient, having Tenebrous, Plagueis, Dooku, Anakin, Luke+Leia and Rey when they unleashed a virus, clone trooper order 66 (with Dooku as the chancellor), had Anakin betray them from the inside, with Anakin's hidden twins (Luke and Leia) finally revealed carving up the temple, with the Sith'ari herself, Rey, embarrassing Yoda and Windu in a 1v2 admist the chaos.
All I can say is I enjoyed this more than a few of the movies. Thank you.
Welcome back Evan I've been a fan since your season 4. I can't wait for the season 6 finale
Very well done. Maybe Darth Cognus next? Anyway, nitpicks:
In the physical section, Tenebrous's superhuman sensory perceptions seemed to have been ignored. First, Bith have extremely advanced hearing, which is both a blessing and a curse. Second, if i remember the novel correctly, both his sight and smell were both more advanced than Plagueis's and an average human's. Also, bith have one lung placing a possible, albeit hypothetical, cap on oxygen and resistance to chest wounds. Speaking of, maybe the tubes are oxygen tubes considering his age? Although this is speculation, it is worth thinking about.
For your lightsaber analysis section, I do think that a little more attention should have been given to his apprentices styles as he did teach them and, as you often note, Plagueis has no passion to advance it anywhere, so it would likely be on par. Still, I think your analysis is as fair as we can give him. However, I think an age estimate of 180 is a bit unfair as the numbers are vague. For all we know, he only trained under his master for a decade or two, as Twi'leks have human-like age restrictions, and his time training Plagueis could have been as little as 40-60 considering that 'most humans' aren't incredibly old and we don't have to assume he is talking about an entire lifetime. So really, 100 -130 years is closer to the mark for me.
As for your theory on his abilities, that passage puzzled me as well, but it is possible that it was referring to primarily Plagueis's lightning while his own was still red. This would mean that Plagueis is able to generate a greater storm as it would have drowned out the red. I say this because 'their fingertips' while seeming to refer to both of them could just mean that both shot lightning, but it was predominately blue. Another possibility is that the blue is the Ionize ability, but we are just blowing smoke at this point. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but when transferring to Plagueis, didn't he specifically note how much more powerful Plagueis is in raw ability? This could again set a cap on his hypothetical power.
Also, I personally don't think he could take Kolar, but thats just me.
Love this latest installment, and putting his story into my must read books.
Also would to see one bout Vitatae and his Valkorian persona I feel like alot people don't have firm grasp how strong is his place in the Star Wars power higharcry.
He can just piss off after the way they ruined Revan and the Exile just to set him up as a scary OP BBEG.
33:15 - 33:23 I guess I'm an exception
Well he was a rule of 2 sith who didn't manipulate the death of his Master but killed him outright in 1 on 1 combat
a better time
Peace is a lie there is only
PASSION
Through passion I gain
STRENGTH
Through strength I gain
POWER
Through power I gain
VICTORY
The force shall free me.”
I am honoured to have this whole vidio dedicated to me
I want the next "How powerful was" video to be about Bant Eerin, Obi-wan Kenobi's oldest friend. I really want to know what your opinions on where she is in terms of power in the Star Wars universe. I believe that she is a tier 2 Jedi Council level master like Obi-wan Kenobi, Plo Koon, and Shaak Ti. Thank you very much.
Some suggestions for this series- Luke Skywalker (Dark Empire)- Darth Caedus- Lumiya- Darth Krayt- Cade Skywalker- Mother Talzin- Darth Marr- Satele Shan- Tulak Hord
I find Plageuis sort of attractive and interesting, maybe its the fact that we dont know about him as much as we do about Vader and Sidious.
Abc Def Fun fact Darth Plagusis is basically Anakin’s father not like biological he created him within the force.
Really wish there was more info on Tenebrous. Super interesting character. IMO he set a lot of the groundwork’s for the grand manipulation that Sidious finished.
Do how powerful is Galen Marek/Starkiller.
@Cult Mechanicus what does Goku have to do with this?
@Cult Mechanicus goku sucks (:
@@redzer082 DBS goku sucks.
Hey Evan, are you excited for the chance to see Jocasta Nu in a lightsaber duel? She's supposed to be fighting Darth Vader in the new comics, and I know you've been really disappointed with the lack of her characterization.
I know that the Fightsaber article is most likely referring specifically to Count Dooku when it says “Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.” But I can’t help but feel like Form II would have been an integral part of a Sith’s training, especially if the Order of the Sith Lords was aware that the Jedi rarely study lightsaber to lightsaber combat in the era leading up to the clone wars. A Sith did not have to dedicate him or herself to Form II, but be proficient enough in its use if one was to unexpectedly cross paths with a Jedi. Count Dooku was one of a very few Jedi in his era that actively practiced Form II and he used that to his advantage against Jedi during the clone wars.
... really... no one is going to say it... ....
He is a of Dark Lord .. of the Bith. I'll see myself out.
Great video! I view Tenebrous as more like a Batman sith. If he has prep time, he's going to be successful - if he were pulling up on Dooku, he'd have had a plan to do so. Seems like the type of guy if you catch him slipping it's an easy clap.
I would love to see some of these Sith Legends in action. Even if it's just plotting and scheming type stuff. Like what does a Sith master do with his side hustle of Master Ship Builder? There's money and power at his disposal similar to Dooku from that. Does he amass small fleets of super-advanced ships and beat other people in Space battles? Super interesting stuff to me. Like he can't beat Dooku in a sabre battle but Admiral Tenebrous beats Captain Dooku in a fighter or something like that.
Welcome back and i love your vids. Its like listening to one of the best documanteries but its not a documantary. Anyways evan keep it up pls.
whoo! my boy Dooku!
I KNEW you were going to reference shockwave as soon as you said he put his emotions aside! Nice!
I was pretty op ngl
Here are some suggests:
-Mara Jade Skywalker.
-Orgus Din.
-Dark Empire Luke Skywalker (He has been both overstated and underestimated by the confrontation with the Darth Sidious Clone).
-Siri Tachi
-Lumayia
I've been waiting for you to release a video so long! When this popped up I excited out of my video and immediately clicked it.
18th view!
Also, when will the versus series finale be coming?
MaestroKenobi Julian, is that you?
Tomy WAT YES IT IS
MaestroKenobi we have got to stop meeting like this old friend
Tomy Hahahaah, agreed.
I think Tenebrus is considerably stronger than Dooku
Well of course I trained Darth Plagueisus and he trained Papaltine.
Very good deductions. It sounds like, though he hasn't been depicted in a story apart from his introduction in the "Darth Plagueis" novel and "The Tenebrous Way", both of which were very brief appearances and at the end of his life and posthumously (respectively), that Darth Tenebrous' fighting style may have been (I'm just guessing) similar to a Yoda-like swordsman wielding the physicality and mentality much more closely to either Count Dooku or Darth Vader (conservative and calculating), with a little of his own technique, and his enjoyment of a good duel mixed in.
Hehe, that Coleman Trebor reference! :D
The living...
..or dead...
...Jedi Master of foreshadowing.
I'm always excited to see a Council Forcecaster (other than Antoine) put up a new video. First Grey Jedi and now Evan! Especially when they do videos on the less-analyzed and underrated characters.
What we really need is to know how powerful is the force ability: the high ground
When you cant find a sith hood large enough to cover your massive cranium
I'm hoping you're going to do Tulak Hord next, he really needs some attention himself imho.
Can we get a 'how powerful was Starkiller'? Be interesting to see how you think he'd turn out considering how op he is in the games
Jethro Ireland In the novel and comic he isn't op at all
Reverse Dipper Pines he is still OP, just not to the extent of his game counterpart.
Ki Adi Sandwich Just like Darth Nihilus and most of the sith of old
Reverse Dipper Pines Darth Nihilus is still hella OP, though.
Awesome work man glad to have you back. Do more forcecasts please!
well... shit. MAN i LOVE these long form star wars videos. THANKYOU.
Just having some pasta, garlic bread and hot cranberry & raspberry juice. I think this will help me enjoy my food! Cheers Evan!
How about a hypothetical fight between Darth Tenebrous and Marka Ragnos? Both had very similar strategic outlooks and both had insane levels of academic knowledge. But at the same time, they were complete opposites. Tenebrous was a speed and dexterity fighter, while Ragnos was a strength fighter. Tenebrous was a sith scientist, while Ragnos was a sith sorcerer.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Marka Ragnos
It is stuff like this that makes me wish that they would make a book series on the Rule of Two Sith between the end of the Bane Trilogy and the beginning Darth Plagueis. You could have it be around 9-12 books and have Drew Karpyshyn, Joe Schreiber, James Luceno, Sean Williams, and Matthew Stover write it. I think that would be awesome.
A bit late, but I consider this video as being your finest video yet! Keep up the outstanding work. 👊✌
how powerful is darth traya
Well, he did manage to burst a light sight bubble of sorts (or at least shrink it) that surrounded the Jedi Temple. While we don't know whether it was his master's idea, we can assume that he understood the basics of the "more esotherical aspects of the force". He was an apprentice at the time. Plagueis and Palps do something similar later in the Plagueis novel. They meditated for days. I think it's reasonable to assume that he did have at least a basic understanding of more, well, obsure, magical aspects of the force.
It was his master that did that and it wasn't the Temple, it was the galaxy.
@@factfiend1000I have been looking who is darth tennerbus master?
@@samtheman4931 An unknown Twi'lek Dark Lord of the Sith.
13:43 I seem to recall that Form VI borrowed elements from Forms 1, and 3-5, since Niman doesn't borrow elements from Makashi.
Where does it say Niman doesn’t borrow from Makashi?
There are so many novels to write along the Bane lineage man ;-; I think they could do a legitimately amenable full fledged trilogy on this guy. I mean its a backward concurrance; the political power of the banite sith spear shinning brightest through Palpatine, its financial power shinning through Plaguies, and its scientific and technological power shining through Tenebrous.
Id like to see a breakdown of all the sith of the bane line between zanna and tenebrous
Oh wow it's one of those Space Jazz musicians! Also looks like the Ood from Dr Who. Awesome videos man.
Years late to the discussion and I know your understanding probably has changed since you uploaded this but anyways: Judging Tenebrous`s lightsaber combat technique is simply impossible because we don`t have any data, and your guess is just that, it`s not even an educated guess. Sidious was a living husk aged over 60 years old when he faced Windu and Yoda, yet used a power and speed based offensive technique (likely Djem So and Juyo? Maybe some Makashi in there as well), Yoda was freakin 800something years old and used Ataru basically exclusivly, Dooku used Makashi BEFORE he turned old. Age, native physical ability and tactical sense had little impact on the fighting form of these high level masters because they could easily draw on the force to overcome their physical weakness or simply preferred a certain style (in Dooku`s case it was most likely vanity and elitetism that made him choose Makashi). Using physical appearance or age is not a valid way to deduce combat prowess when we talk about high level masters.
Brilliant video. So are you gonna do a How Powerful Was Obi Wan Kenobi in honor of the standalone film that's on its way?
He used Form Four. It says so in the Plagueis book.
I mean... even the best and strongest practitioners of essence transfer would def have their work cut out for them trying it on tyranis. Bro has iron strength of willpower is incredibly intelligent AND an extremely adapt and practiced force user. While not the most powerful Sith ever by any means, he's no pushover and may well be the greatest practitioner of form 2 to have ever existed, and was in his own right quite the powerful force user. I agree with your outcome almost 100%
Hey evan great video as always but I who like to make a suggestion. Can you compare a Jedi knight to a real world late medieval knight. In this situation the knights weapons will be entirely plasma proof and his armor will be plasma resistant but not proof. The force will not be used by the jedi and in this fight we will only be looking at the jedis martial arts and skill compared the knights of the late medieval age. What do you think.
Sidious is a master of all seven forms of lightsaber and he could not have learned these skills otherwise than from his master, If we take in consideration that there were no major upgrades of the lightsaber skills possesses by the dark lords between Tenebrous and Sidious due to the way they killed their masters and due to the fact that no one but Tenebrous could have taught Plagueis the seven lightsaber forms, i think and it's only my opinion, that Tenebrous lightsaber skills were at the same level as Darth Sidious in revenge of the Sith, i think the Sith from the rule of two era reached their peak in terms of lightsaber skills around or before the Tenebrous era.
revan, bastila and juhani vs anakin, luke and obi-wan
Anakin, Luke, and Obi-wan would win rather easily imo(not much from obi wan as I believe most would be force power v force power)
@@builderphill1361 juhani probably wont survive very long, but revan and bastilla will definetely be able to put up a decent fight
Revan would beat every one and then turn out Juhani and Bastilla. He teaches them force powers that are solely for the purpose of his bodily pleasure and that becomes their role. Revans Defenders by day and spunkdumpsters by night.
Zannah
Love the way you break down the video, just wish the volume was up louder so I didnt have to plug it into a speaker to listen to while doing things.
Bra every time I start ur video ur theme song 🔥🙏🏼 Getts me going 😂
Is it an accident that he almost completely shares the name with the dude from SWTOR:
Tenebre
Gameslord Yeah that’s really interesting maybe you should do some research on it!
Tenebrous might have been able to use two different types of Sith lighting where one might be stronger against droids and the other more intense against living organisms and even possibly being a mixture of force drain/lightning (for the red lightning if it was red force lighting). Would be cool to see if they would complete a series for them or all of the rule of 2 Sith so we can get a full story going through the generations. The Sith are known to live far longer than each of their species live on average so unless the Sith Lord was killed in combat or by their apprentice that they would live far past their normal life cycle that would have far less of a line of master/apprentice than what would be doing the entire Jedi story line as well. They could have some of the smaller encounters of Sith vs Jedi but in the shadows to gauge out the enemies better and they could use it to bring more prevalent Jedi to the forefront when the Jedi try to figure out why they keep having Jedi be killed on a regular basis over the generations of the rule of 2 Sith.
Do "How Powerful is the Force" for the meme
That is a question I doubt will ever be answered my friend.
@Wes-Bradley Taubner The proof was when Anakin was used as a prop when he had the high ground that was just an example of the high ground power in action.
@Wes Bradley- Taubner You never know you never know.
@Wes Bradley Taubner Only picture that popped up.
@Wes Bradley Taubner I wanted a realistic picture of Darth Tenebrous to really show him out not a drawing.
Evan bro! I have two versus suggestions. Mace Windu vs Kyle Katarn; and Mara Jade vs Prime Adoka Tano. Please look into it. I'd love to see you and Antoine do a collaboration on Jade vs Asoka. Thanks!
Mara far outclasses Ahsoka.Mara would've most likely beaten Jacen Solo if it wasn't for him throwing up an illusion of Ben at the last moment. Ahsoka held her own against Vader, but ultimately lost (although we never saw the end of the fight). Ahsoka is on the level of a just-above-average Jedi Knight at the prime at best. Mara is on the level of a top tier Jedi Master. It's not really an even fight at all -- Mara is simply on another tier to Ahsoka.P.S. I only now realise you said "Mara Jade" not "Mara Jade Skywalker." If you're referring to Mara as the Emperor's Hand, I don't know enough about her at that time to back up any points. Still, I see Mara taking the win.
Windu vs Katarn is an interesting one, both had unique and "not-your-average-Jedi-like" views on the Force.
Joe Brown Wouldn't say interesting at all. Mace outclasses Kyle in every single way.
Vaapad wouldn't be all that effective against Katarn. I see Windu ultimately winning, though I definitely wouldn't say he "outclasses Kyle in every way".
How powerful was Darth Malak? Every time I think of him in KOTOR, I see him as more of a "textbook" sith, well above average and covers all bases, but still doesn't go beyond basic sith knowledge and abilities, just like Maul, Malgus, and Talon (although arguments can be made for them). I was wondering if he was beyond that, or weaker than the sith I mentioned.
GreyJedi91 does a good rant on it
Evannov95 you fucking nerd!
I love your videos!!! Keep it up!
Tenebrous was powerful enough that Plagueis didn't fight him but instead used cowardly means to stop him, like sidious did to him, and sidious was beyond powerful, but plagueis is stronger than sidious as shown by that and tenebrous was stronger than plagueis.
+EvanNova95 Another good vid Evan, I eagerly await the next one. I would like to recommend how powerful was: Darth Wyrrlok III, Exar Kun, Oppo Rancisis, Jolee Bindo, Corran Horn, and Ferus Olin. If I could make a recommendation on Versus Series: Jaina Solo-Fel vs. Ahsoka Tano(Star Wars Rebels) and Ferus Olin vs. Zayne Carrick. Keep up the good work and MTFBWY.
That would be one of the most hilarious fights ever.
jaina stomps
Really enjoyed your commentary, excellent
Tenebrous really one of my favorites
Wonderful excerpt from the Plagueis Novel.
Awww quit pestering him mates! I'm super jazzed to see new content too, but this young man surely has much life to grapple with beyond TH-cam. I for one am content with whatever he happens to manage. Keep slayin' Evan!!