IS NIKE AIR STILL A BIG SELLING POINT? SHOULD NIKE MOVE AWAY FROM AIR ZOOM TECHNOLOGY? | EDDBUD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- IS NIKE AIR STILL A BIG SELLING POINT? SHOULD NIKE MOVE AWAY FROM AIR ZOOM TECHNOLOGY? | EDDBUD
Today i present to you a discussion on NIKE ZOOM AIR technology and also i discuss as to wether ZOOM AIR is still a selling point in 2024 or has it been superseded by better more resilient and higher energy return foams?
Nike have been using this technology since 1979 and little has changed in terms of how it functions. Is it still worth massive advertising budgets to lead the charge on their 2024 AIR lineup?
Though it has its fans and people love the faithful and reliable cushioned delivered by these models.
Whats your take on this? Let me know in the comments :)
Hold tight people, stay strong and we WILL make it through.
Keep it nice in the comments please, i do not do unpleasant, its just ..... unpleasant. See you in the digital ones and zeros......
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At least ASICS learned to reduce the gel or remove it completely from some models.
Yeah good point. That was their unique design element. Reduced a fair amount now
@@EDDBUD i really think it's great in some models but not for every kind of shoe.
Gel was the one thing that kept me from buying ASICS.
Difference being, gel is pure window dressing while air sure adds something in terms of performance and/or comfort. Just look up any Asics gel decomposition video, only smoke and mirrors.
Totally agree. Even if the tech was good (probably wasn’t), there’s something seemingly energy sapping about the idea of ‘gel’.
For me at the end of the day it comes down to efficiency and energy return. If lab tests on Nike athletes show that the air returns more energy than the foam/plate alone, it should stay. If it doesn’t make a difference, I’d prefer they focus on what does
I have almost 1200km in my first pair of Tempo Next%, and the Air pods still feel great. Most of my other shoes last to about 600km before the foam feels dead. As long as you don't get unlucky with rupturing them, they have a HUGE lifespan. 3 pairs of Tempo Next% and a pair of every version of the AlphaFly and not one Air pod failure in over 2500km across all these shoes. They obviously aren't a shoe for everybody, but if they work for you...they are magical if you can consistently land on the pods, and not behind them and fight to get over them.
Hope they bring back the tempo. Darn good shoe
Good to know. I have a leftover fresh pair of Next% Tempos, nice to know AirPods don’t collapse (I’ve had other Nikes where that happened fairly early in the ownership cycle).
But the midsole sometimes detached from the upper😢
@@TheTonyCAcc I've never experienced or seen that before. Possible some production runs are better than others. Or some people's feet/gait put different stress on the upper. Some shoes just work for people, some don't. Most Adidas shoes give me terrible heel lift.
@@timtrenholm3698 maybe...but I've seen a lot of Nike tempo next % on Reddit having similar issues. Durability doesn't seem to be a strong suit of that shoe😢 although personally, the traction has been pretty durable, the glue holding the outsole to the midsole has dried up.
Meh, AF1 had crazy bounce. V3 might as well have been foam only.
My daily walkers are the Nike Pegasus 40’s. I do have some 41’s on the way. I absolutely enjoy these with my Balega socks.
I get the marketing, I would never consider spending that much (nike vapourfly next%2 still doing a job if I have a road race) but a work colleague went straight out and bought the alphafly when doing his first half and paid full price. All down to brand awareness - and most people may only do one big race in their life and so will just get what they know
I think both work perfectly in tandem. If you don’t want the air pods, you can get the Vaporfly.
Rolling adverts on big screens @ London Bridge station the other night. I was a bit baffled!
Yes they have gone big time on the ads
@@EDDBUD The 'problem' I have with Nike is they are far more focussed on advertising and buying the best athletes. It gets boring watching Diamond League meets where the entire start line is wearing the same kit- I understand the athletes taking the money, of course. But, as a runner, their daily shoes are pretty average.
I believe in the benefits of the Air. I started running in the '70's and had the OG Tailwind as many other Air shoes over the years. Some of my favourites were the Vortex and Air Edge which I used as my training / racing combination at the time. The combination of the PU and full air was great and i found the longevity of the shoe for my foot-strike to be great as the PU/air combination had a much longer life than the foams that just compressed to quickly (i tend to put a lot of pressure on the forefoot in my stride pattern). The Air Max 360 was great in that regard. But Nike doesn't only focus on Air their development of the VF4% is a good case in point, so they don't have all their eggs in one basket. Running in both the VF3 and AF3 one can definitely feel the positive impact of the Air-Pods and having a choice is a good thing. I am pretty sure the Tailwind version they launched a few years back was not 100% made with the same materials. I often wonder what an Air Edge would feel like today if made with the same materials as it was back in the day....
The retros seem to be 100 % accurate or very different from recent models.
Love the air max 90 ( 3 ) and the Lebron 17. They had amazing use of air.
I think AIR will always be something that Nike will come back to even if they move away from it temporarily. I just hope they don't accidentally fill their shoes with propane 💥
They might be fast but still no good for the 4 minute warning.
Thank you for the interesting discussion!
Glad you enjoyed it!
it/zoomair crams more "cushioning" than a foam in the same space/volume.
but for weight/mass super-foam is better, so a combination can/does work until super-foams become ultra-foams :P
I think the pegaus premium I think it's called will show if air units have a place moving forward, literally the whole midsole is packed with the stuff so if they doesn't work for the daily joggers and the elites alike then air will be dead. You can't get anymore then a full midsole of it
Somewhere Sagasu Runnings eye is twitching.
Who?
Update. Just had a search for that channel. Never seems to come up on my feed. I think you may want to watch my video on 2021 on AIR. Don’t watch many other TH-camrs aside from Kofuzi, FOD and Time Grose.
@EDDBUD wasnt trying to fire anyone up, just was joking with the title and that he has gone into depth about it
@@michaelcaricoo No I fully understand. I was mentioning that Air / foam changes has been long since overdue. Nike seemed to rest on their laurels through the pandemic. Other brands have caught up 👍🏼
@@EDDBUDwho is FOD?
@@kevinburola889 FOD Runner, Andy Raynor
I have the Alphafly V1 and V2. Still a very unique sensation ❤.
The v3 is smashing. Like the v1 with less weight
I think they should keep it. It shined in the og AF. I also have the superreps in the gym with the zoompods, and those are just for aesthetics and fun during HIIT workouts, since you do get that pop on the jumps. But the value is sometimes lost in other shoes. In the peg 35 the layer was so thin I could not feel it. And in the Terra Kiger the units felt too insignificant and small. The biggest benefit seemed to be that the shoes feel fresher for longer. The zoom units don't fatigue as much as foam does. On ultra runs I have experienced that the zoom units got very noticable since they kept their shape. That was also a good sign it was time to retire those shoes. But often in athletic shoes it seems to be a hit or mis concept. Just like the glued recycled zoom in the Peg Turbo.
Some good thoughts here and I agree. It either works or doesn’t! The Kiger unit made the shoe unstable. Yet the alphafly 3 seems really good for that now
Fresh foam is my thing. I think many runners just got more educated and have picked where they like
It can be interesting to look at Nike track shoes line up: for sprint up to 400/800, they use Victory and Maxfly with Zoom air pods + carbon plate, and above, there's the Dragonfly with ZoomX and Peba plate (so not carbon...).
So for high power running, air pods + carbon plate, and for energy saving runnjng, ZoomX + plastic plate.
Will the next Marathon shoe be ligher with only Zoomx, and Peba plate?
Neil Young has always been one of my favorite artists since the 70’s. Good call.
Love his stuff. The archive is worth checking out
I think the alphafly 3 is the best racing shoe you can buy although the puma deviate elite 3 is so so close or just as good or maybe better in certain circumstances and
When you look at price the puma is way way better value
The meta speed sky Paris is great but a bit firmer I put that up there just behind the Vaporfly 3 but prefer softer shoe in general
I think Nike need to invest in a new super foam , zoom x has been around for a long time now and it’s great but surly they can improve it in some way like even more bounce and energy return or making it even lighter or both
The air is good in the alphafly but maybe they could improve that by finding a way to make it lighter or bouncer or both
I own a couple of pairs of alphapflys (V1,V2 bought on sale) and had a bad injury last year so i could not run for 14 month. After letting them sit untouched i tried to run in them again this year and noticed that 3! of the shoes had lost a significant amount of air pressure making one pair unusable because of the asymmetry and the second pair unpleasent to run with no bounce or damping. Zoomx is still the best foam for my taste but alphapfly or anything with nike Air tech in it never again!
Oh blimey. Interesting find
I believe once Nike has realized airpods make their shoes different (in a good way), compared to just using Pebax/Peba foam (in the midsole 😉), they decided to squeeze any little drop from it.
whenever I think of the marathon I think of the alphafly and the airpods, so I think nike should stick with it just because of how iconic it is
Agree, Nike doubling down on Air, it’s their USP for the past few decades. Not unlike On with Cloudtec, although On tying its brand to a technology of debatable efficacy (at least for running) is a questionable decision.
Fact is, running shoe companies aren’t that great at marketing; few have a concrete, relevant brand positioning, or even clear, rational product lines…
You need to adapt and innovate. There is a place for the airpods in a lot of their lines but whether they remain in their top tier race shoes from a performance perspective becomes questionable as other brands develop/implement foams that surpass the weight cost benefit of airpods.
I haven't bought a Nike shoe for over 3 years now as I feel that they are well out of touch with reality.
Man the air Pods in the Pegs are not doing it for me anymore, 210lbs for the rec, I just went for the invincible instead this time for my long miles
Thanks Edd.
You are very welcome
@@EDDBUD 🤩
For me it's air in the forefoot that is the real winner. I am not so fussed about using air for cushioning but the AF it does add a real pop.
Another interesting question is why don't other brands use air?
I’m sure there is patent stuff around air
AF3's are crazy fast, but they are the only supershoe to wreck havoc on my Achilles'. 🤷♂️
They certainly initiate different bits of the body!
Nice 🎉
🥈
AIR is a big part of their marketing for their flagship Mercurical football boots. They write air in big letters on the heel of the boots.
I’m looking at that black Adidas 5X behind you.
Just tested it today, ran 5k with it. Quite heavy, as I’ve ran only in V2s, V3s and A3s in the past year and a half.
@@Amtcboy very much a daily shoe. Lighter than the peg and loads of others.
@@EDDBUD
True. I’m going to use it everyday for work 😅
Bad thing is I ordered the white one but a half size bigger (thinking I’d use it for training).
But the black 9.5 (which I bought to use for work supposedly) feels like it’s loose. It has a wider toe box than V3, much more than A3.
So pretty sure, I’m selling the white 10 when it arrives.
I believe the air pods is the firmness you need to bounce through… otherwise zoomX in the AF3 is too soft….
It’s certainly more resilient.
Nike needs to give their brand an edge over other brands . They need to push their copyright technologies or forced to compete equally .
I haven't bought Nike for years now... Just Saucony 💪.. Hoka.. Adidas
I had some Alphafly 2 ( bought 2nd hand as i would never pay retail cost for AF nor VF ) with very little use and really enjoyed them until one of the airpods burst and the shoes then became useless.
If Nike made the airpods less susceptible to damage,it would make the shoes far more appealing to consumers IMO.
Are the pods in AF3 better protected?
I have VF1 and VF2 (again 2nd hand ) and love them and have tried various other Nike models ( Wildhorse , Pegasus , invincible) but found them all underwhelming and don't think I'd consider buying anything other than AF/VF.
I think the huge current marketing is simply to sell more AF3 as it's their most expensive model and shareholders require/need/want their dividends.
It’s all or nothing on the air pods!
Foam is for absorption, Air is for propulsion.. Nike has sorted it out this time as compared to the good old times of Air Max when the thinking was more on heel strike = air bubble at the back. That's what I think the logic came from anyways.
6:00 wait the first iteration you mean the Vaporfly Prototype? that is not just less foam, its got more than 40mm stack height, 3 Carbon fiber plate, 4 Air Zoom pods (either Fluid filled Air pressurized, or different density foam) , I still can't fathom why nike don't want to release this for public, even Adidas got them Prime X2 and Puma soon to be Puma Fast RB rule breaking shoes
No it didn’t have all that. That rumour long since debunked.
Dankeschön! But where is your Dankeschön 🤔😉 I missed it...
The Metaspeeds aren't that much cheaper than the Alphafly in Australia.
I'll never buy a Nike shoe again, watched this purely for the quick cuts and musical interlude. Did not disappoint.
Thanks! There’s one guy I know that doesn’t even like shoes or running. Watches for my voice! I don’t mind. If I bring a smile it’s worth it.
🎉
Gold Steven, I’ve just had about half a pint of JD so not super sharp 😂 - whoops I got Gold…. 🤣
🥉
👊🏼🤖‼️
I think Zoom Air can still be good, when implemented correctly.
Nikes bigger problem is, that besides their top-tier running shoes like the Alpha- and Vaporfly, there isn't much else. Shoes like the Invincible, the Vomero and even the Pegasus are still decent, but also just mediocre compared to runners from other brands.
Nike needs some inovation. The last technologies they have introduced were Zoom X and React in 2017.
Hello
Let them develop some air-infused PEBA foam and call it an air-pod😃
My last Nike shoe was span triax way back in 2003/2004 so yeah I’m sold on air 🤣
I think people are mental paying £285 for the Alphafly. Can’t believe people actually spend nearly £300 on a single pair of race shoes. I’d rather buy 2x pair of shoes for that.
@@ThatRunnerAaron depends what’s shoes your buying for that. Have you tried the alphafly model?
@@EDDBUD I’ve got the V1 which I got on a flash sale from Nike in November last year for about £140. Sportshoes very often have good super shoes for around £150 each. For example, metaspeed sky plus on sale right now for £155… seen endorphin pros on there for around the same. Even bought my vaporfly 3s from them for about £150 with my running club discount code. Can’t imagine paying £285 for an Alphafly.
Id rather buy the alpha fly its worth EVERY penny and honestly thats not even that much money
@@ATREU850
😂😂😂
@@ThatRunnerAaron You're going to buy 2 pairs of garbage shoes? Supershoes are expensive for a reason... they're that good. Just say you don't have the money or your times don't warrant getting a pair. 🤷♂️
Nike just have to charge less, it is just Air ! No matter how "Air" is old, it is not obsolete to be yet. By the end of last year until june, the best high cushioning shoes I was addicted the most to run a lot was the Structure 25. If I could have just one high shoes would be the Structure 25 over the excelent Gel-Nimbus 26 , New Balance 1080 v13 and even the Invincible 3.
Maybe if you removed the air pocket ... the cushlon 3.0 would be good enough by itself... who knows.
I'm interested to check the Structure 26 soon !
I wonder why the VF isn't included in that ad campaign.
There is a Vaporfly in that colour. But not featured much for some reason
Airpods work well, what nike has to do is to go way from that hilarious drops, and go back to narrow heels like vaporfly 1-2
Yes some too high for me
That's funny that Nike's reaction to dropping sales and the voices that they are not that innovative in the running shoes area is MORE MARKETING. It's the most "Nike" thing they could do 😂
As a long-time Nike fan, to be honest I only appreciated and felt the air technology in their running shoes. In their basketball shoes, I sometimes doubt if the air soles there are even helping with the cushioning. I think the air tech could still be a selling point in their running shoes line.
Yeah in the basketball shoes are they just adding weight?
@@EDDBUD probably but I'm guessing not that much though. I can't feel the air tech in these Nike basketball shoes. They feel pretty much the same as the other top brands to be honest.
@@mfcc1084 Might grab the jordan 39 as a test to feel the zoomx and air.
there's a reason of why the other brands don't do it
The Pegasus Premium will have lots of Air in its sole, I'll try it when it releases. Besides that concerning the financial struggle of Nike if I had to give the Nike CEO an advice ... " Don't sponsor the German soccer team!" ... thats like flushing money down the drain ...
They reportedly offered double that of adidas. Seems mad to me.
May da good ól algorithm grow !!!
They can keep it for some shoes, but for top performance models they have to be more innovative, no more scrub ZoomX crap like Peg next nature, move away from Air and come up with something else lighter and responsive. Other brands are catching up even small Chinese brands and European brands (like Joma) are getting more improvement than Nike in recent years. They can keep signing new biggest stars but their shoes will be slowly becoming trendy sneakers if they have nothing new come up.
They seem very against doing an all out lower stack zoom air and zoomx shoe. It’s weird. I’m sure foam durability is their issue
@@EDDBUD could be... The ZoomX they use on top model race day shoes is very lightweight but not very durable while the other ZoomX blends on other models like Vomero and Invincible are very heavy.
To me it seems that they focus too much on elite runners and put all their R&D on one or two models but unable to find some average runners to give them feedback on their daily trainer type of shoes after Peg 36, coincidentally that's about the same time they ditched the relationship of retailers and focus on their own store and online which now they have to undo.
The upcoming Pegasus plus should be exactly what they should have done for the Peg next nature, and now it is 2 years too late.
Air Zoom technology was first released around 1995, didn't change much over these years, I'll say they are slacking behind if there is no improvement after all these years in this era.
It just gets very boring when they have new models released these couple years and lacking those wow factors when other brands release new shoes.
Air...Air
Hit me in the face
I run faster
Faster into the air
Air...Air
It can break your heart
Air can hurt you too
Some people say not to worry about the air
Some people never had experience with air
--- Talking Heads 1979
-
I have the VF3 and the AF3. The VF3 is faster for me. I would think you'd have to be very aggressive with toe striking to see any benefit from the AF3, as otherwise it's just added weight which slows you down.
Interesting because I experienced the exact opposite. I'm faster in every distance in my AF3 than my VF3. However, I'm a heavier runner and those zoom pods certainly help with the level of compression I put on them. I won't say the VF3 bottoms out on me, but it certainly doesn't have the same toe off that I get with the AF3. As always, it comes down to the individual
@@gkott78 my route is a 2.5 mile loop that goes downhill, is kind of flat for a bit, and then very hilly coming back up. I'd say about 1 mile of it is uphill and it's tough. So, the weight (and contour) of the shoe really matters for coming back uphill. If I were on a flat surface, like a bike trail or something, I'd be willing to bet the AF3 would do better for me. As it is, though, neither of them really tickle my pickle, but the VF3 is the faster of them just because it's lighter. Contrast that to the Adidas PXS1 or AP3, which are still my favorites. The PXS1 especially has a nice pop-y feel to it that I haven't felt in any other shoe, to the point where I consciously notice my stride lengthening. The AP3, on the other hand, has the perfect contour for going uphill without feeling like you'll end up dragging your toes against the ground. Add to that the fact that they're considerably better built and more durable than the Nike shoes and it's a no brainer for me.
Just goes to show you can spend a wad of cash on magic Nike shoes, only to find that they are unremarkable for you. These shoe tubers all seem to run on flat terrain, which doesn't represent the full range of a running experience in the real world. Take the same shoe up a hill that wants to murder you and then tell me if you think it's any good.
Same here. The VF3 doesn’t do it for me. The alpha is like a glove.
@doctormosfet that makes sense. My routes are flat very little hills where I live. Distance from 5k to 10k loops. I don't have the PXS1 but do have the 2. I agree on durability as well. The pxs2 is just bottom heavy but one of my favorite shoes regardless. My stride length is slightly longer in the AF3 though over the pxs2.
@@gkott78 yeah, I also have the PXS2. It's like running with bricks. More stable than the PXS1 for sure, and great for building muscles with all of that weight. Yet another shoe with funny business up front to get more "spring" but otherwise just adds weight when climbing. I'm a mid/heel striker and don't slam my feet down, so I would probably never see a direct speed benefit from the PXS2. However, running in that and then switching to something lighter is like releasing a parachute.
well, the main component of Adidas foam is...air. Same for Nike. At this point, I think the airbags are just marketing for a proprietary thing. btw, Bowerman used to stop by the house to visit my Dad when I was a kid (he was on the T&F team in the late 40's). When Nike was getting started, he asked my Dad if he wanted to invest $5k. Dad had his money tied up in a timber sale and couldn't. Thanks, Dad! I'd be a multimillionaire right now if you had! All without working or any of that other stuff poor people have to do. Loose chain of thought thought, despite my connection to Nike, I find all but their racing shoes to be awful compared to many other brands.
Oh man. Imagine if he had found the cash?! 😭
@@EDDBUD would you be surprised how often I do? Usually around the end of the month...
@@tazpengra 🤣👍🏼
Haven't doc martens used 'air technology' for even longer? 😁 Always feels a bit odd that Nike got away with making air theirs!
Air walk. I remember see that as a kid. Not sure the tech is similar but trademarks must be close!
I’d buy these “expensive” running shoes (purposeful), rather buying Veja, Golden Goose or an Adidas/Nike with collaboration which cost a fortune, and can’t run in them.
Pharrell used the pro evos in paris 😂
Yes. I was told a while back “elite, super low stock on the pro evo 1”. Seems that’s not the case
Remember, Nike made Peba foam popular, but now everyone has Peba.
They will ride the air train as long as they can . Next is Zoom air stroble for running shoes. You read it here first.
Make a video on Zoom air stroble for running
May grab a pair of the jordan 39 to see what the full air and peba is like
@@EDDBUD please do
@@ontiretsemagome9154 My wife will ask “more basketball shoes?” 🤣👍🏼
@EDDBUD she will ask, are you a sneaker head now? Edd Sneaker Buds !
What now Nike? What does the future look like with regard to running shoes?
@@perjrgenkristiansen8812 The Pegasus plus by all accounts is like shoes from other brands in 2021/2022.
hello
There is no use for the Air unit...they should just improve overall quality of the products which right now is rubbish
Very inconsistent especially in the top tier shoes
I think that Air hasn't been really a selling point for a long time. Nike was ahead of others with ZoomX and also in terms of design. Their shoes looked better and had more color ways than the others. Now when everybody else has catched up, it's more difficult for Nike to sell their shoes. They don't have nothing revolutionary. Therefore they are running that kind of ad campaigns. They need some technology to make their trainers lighter and especially a competitive light-weight tempo shoe. Vaporfly and Alphafly are getting new slightly modified versions 'til they come up with something revolutionary. About Runner's World. It reminds me of this: th-cam.com/video/6pLLrPQ1oK8/w-d-xo.html
The Jordan 39 high has just released still had air and zoomx. They can’t seem to pull away from it
I just don’t think Nike offer value for money. Every other shoe is pretty on par in terms of performance
On even more expensive.
Only Nike shoes that seems moderately exciting to see future versions of are the Alphaflys. Even those are being challenged already. Everything else from Nike are overpriced, overrated, and over-advertised mediocre shoes.
I think nike would be better off making better quality mid and budget range running shoes. Aside from the Pegasus line I couldn’t tell you any non Nike race shoe models whatsoever. I avoid Nike at all costs currently
Nowadays you can sell anything with a good story. Currently, history and prestige are much more important than the quality of the product. 🤷🏼
@@RainerSchmitt-pv4df yeah a very good point
Maybe helium in the air bladders would help lift your feet? Honestly, I’d say Nike Air is outdated technology.
The issue is that it adds weight which counteracts the responsive properties
NPCs beware - we see you with your foolish bags and AIR!
#algorithm
🤣👍🏼
Nike realizes how far behind they've fallen and are grasping at straws (Air?) in desperation. Promoting Air-cushioning is similar to their past 5-year strategy of just making money by pumping out new colorways for old shoes. Polishing a turd.
Nike fell off after they made the transition to reach out to the masses. You see non-runners wearing vapourflys to the malls (not a problem) but it shows they just want to sell shoes, and not improve on their tech. Adidas used to be in that hole selling boost shoes, Asics with the gel shoes. The biggest difference is other brands know the masses dont have legs like Kiptum and Kipchoge, and would rather make a shoe that last (Adios pro 3, Superblast, Endorphin Speed/Pro) . Nike are at a cross roads now and will need to evaluate if chasing overall sales is worth risk. Once Kipchoge retires they aren't gonna milk it Jordans....
Hey
🥇
@@EDDBUD well I never…
Hello