Seems like yet another symptom of this postmodern era of "subverting expectations" and "deconstructing the canon", and not just in comics, just look at movies how they glamorize villainy, transform villains into "misunderstood victims", and even demonizing heroes, making them super flawed, turning them into overzealous assholes and even into actual villains
The KEY here is that modern-day comic writers do not understand the difference between heroics and villains. They literally think that a villan can be considered a hero just because they had a hard life. What REALLY makes a hero is someone who does good, even though they have had a hard life and in spite of the fact that they may have suffered. Magneto could be calked an anti-hero at some points of the xmen story, but mostly, he has been a villain.
When you're writing from a worldview of postmodern relativism there is no objective "good" or "evil". Morality is just a tool, like Santa Claus giving "good" boys and girls presents, to con the masses into staying in line. So, if you deny the existence of virtue, you can't write heroes who are paragons of virtue. So "heroes" either become like Superman is depicted in Batman Returns: boy scouts blindly following corrupt politicians based on outdated "values" like patriotism and morality; or like Batman, people in trouble for bucking the system to actually help people. That's how many of the modern comic writers see villains. "Bad guys" are just people acting out because they are VICTIMS (and thus _justified_ striking out against the system and people that victimized them). The irony here is that these writers THINK they're "heroes" bucking the system, striking back a The Man, speaking Truth to Power when they ARE the System, the Man, the Power.
And historical writing there doesn't have to be a clear, good side and evil side because in life there isn't a clear good side and evil side. X-Men was inspired by the civil rights movement And the whole point of the series is neither side was right and magneto and Professor X needed to work together to accomplish their dream. Magneto was right about people faring mutants and what they would do because they were afraid
_"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."_ I know it's become a cliché, but Nietzsche's quote pretty well sums up what you were saying about the lesson of Magneto.
Even if we leave morality aside, the X-Men siding with Magneto make for lazier, more boring stories. Magneto's existence and his allies create a greater divide among mutants and give them individual stances regarding how they are treated. It allows for debates and challenging ideas, which is why Magneto and Xavier's stances are so good. If the X-Men just become like Magneto, the story loses a lot of creativity. Now is just the X-Men being villains and fighting humans and heroes, which has been the status quo since the mid-2000s.
It’s not at all shocking how many people assert Magneto is in the right despite the mountain of atrocities he committed against humans and mutants alike. The truth is, he never left that concentration camp. He only acknowledges the worst in people, and constantly brings it out in them, either through dragging others down with him or causing violence to stoke the fire of conflict between humans and mutants. Despite all of that he is faced with the best that people have to offer every day. The X-Men not included, all around him are men and women putting their own wellbeing at risk to help people in crisis, sometimes dying in the process. But he chooses to ignore that because all he really sees after all these years is Nazis and barbed wire fences. He can’t see past himself and his own experience, which isn’t dissimilar to the writers of mainstream comics. So it isn’t surprising that Magneto is their champion.
This is what I've so disliked about the whole "Krakoan Era". Xavier JOINED Magneto's side. Professor X was always about recognizing mutants and non-mutants were still all HUMAN - and the "utopia" Xavier sought (to the extent he was actually seeking a utopia) was one in which humans could live side by side regardless of their race or mutation. Magneto operated under the illusion that mutants were a whole new species (racistly named "Homo Superior" because they're BETTER than "humans") and that peacefully coexisting with such inherently inferiors would be impossible. Magneto's vision of a "mutant utopia" - and Magneto WAS a utopianist - was one in which "vanilla" humans were enslaved or extinct. And on Krakoa, Xavier joined with Magneto in creating a racist "utopia" that dismissed or exploited everyone not mutant - to the extent that they even tried to kidnap the Richard's kids from their family. There is NO WAY Xavier would ever have signed off on that in the days when he was still a GOOD GUY. But the X-men aren't good guys any more. Because these books are written by people who have wholly bought into Critical Theory and see segregation as the SOLUTION to racism instead of a SYMPTOM of racism.
Reminds me of the "Act of Vengeance" crossover where the Red Skull of all people essentially called Magento out of his hypocrisy and how Magneto's saviour complex is just an excuse for what is essentially mutant supremacy ......and it is more telling that Magento doesn't respond or at least hesitates for a while to Red Skull's "you and I are not so different" claims,
No, they don't forget. They DON'T KNOW. Most of the current batch of X-Men fans are 'tourists'. They're here for a couple of movies and then they move on.
Some people got offended on twitter (shocking I know) by someone calling him Mutant Hitler, because he is a "holocaust survivor" and tried to dogpile the guy, but someone else posted pictures of him dressing people up in WW2 German uniforms and rounding up normal people. The dialogue even shows he knows exactly what he's doing.
@thebatman7347 It because they took out all the terrible things he did. Like in the comic, When he took over Genosha he intentionally made horrible prison camps for Genoshan Mutant with sick with ghe Legacy Virus because he wanted his son to see it and be so horrified that he would think joining him would give him power to make sure that Genoshan Humans and Mutants would be treated better.
@@Underworlddream If you're gonna bring in shit from the comics don't pick n choose , bring it all in including all tge horrible shit humans have done to mutants then tell me whether magnito was still right or not Spoiler , he's still right
I think this really started back in the late 2000s when Cyclops kept doing shittier and shittier things to try and keep Mutantkind alive and was effectively validated for all of it by the narrative. This in turn helped narratively validate a lot (though certainly not all) of the shitty stuff that Magneto did as well. Personally, I think that was a mistake.
It also didn't help with Ultimate X-Men in that same time period having comic books in the Ultimate Universe show the mutants doing a bunch of edge lord, grim dark trying way too hard bullshit. Every character was dismal and murky. There was not a single one of those mutant characters who wasn't an asshole. Why would I ever want to root for any of them? Ultimate Wolverine especially. Marvel Comics just really shit on all of the X-Men characters ever since the late 1990s and early 2000s.
The problem with Magneto is that he's a narcissist with almost unlimited power. He doesn't care about anyone's opinion other than his own. He's the opposite of Spider-Man, he has the power, but he doesn't have the responsibility that tempers it.
Unfortunately a lot of modern day writers have a villains mindset and agree with Magneto. They think putting ideology over peoples lives is something that is noble and that the ends justify the means.
The Krakoan era did a strange work. They kept most of the villains the same but had the heroes bend their morals. They didn’t even try to vet anyone. Even if they try to explain it through his friendship with Charles, at what point could they ever justify Sinister, Sabertooth, Selene, Shaw, or any of the other mutants who have never been anything but antagonistic/selfish being there AND having seats of power
I never understood in the movies even why they couldn’t just make thanos a characters that worshipped death and wanted to please her. The “life is using you much resources” is always dumb to me
@@chrischreative2245I always felt his environmental issue was a smoke screen for his murder obsession anyways. Take away half the population and there's a good chance society will collapse and everyone starts using dirtier resources at a faster rate to survive. Hardly the full bellies he advertised. Certainly there were species that were not using up their resources that got halved and fell into desperation.
@@chrischreative2245 the movie explanation was easier to explain to the audience, partly because it gives a comprehensible reason for why Thanos wants the Infinity Stones whereas a love for Death could be accomplished by all sorts of other means. Then you would also have to explain Death as a character and do that all in one movie. Frankly, the choice they made was for the best if the mess that is Phases 4 and 5 of the MCU is any indication.
I feel the most sympathetic Magneto ever was was when he tried to replace Charles Xavier and how he tried to guide the New Mutants, and the sorrow he felt when Doug Ramsey was killed. The panel of him kneeling in front of Doug’s body covered in a sheet….powerful stuff.
The problem is they pretend that mutants aren't just humans with powers. To put it in context it's like creating an island filled with one race and pardoning killers and murderers just because they're the same race. That is just nuts. They have the same feelings and suffer from the same short comings. The closest excuse anyone had was that mutants powers could flare up unexpectedly making them dangerous - fair point but once those powers are controlled then there is no longer the fear of sudden power use. At that point they are no different from metahumans
Magneto was not completely right in his solution to the problem. He was right about the problem. Humans and mutants need to be able to live separately. Mutants create a vastly uneven playing field in society. Who am I going to draft for my football team. 2 regular human players? No, i'm drafting quicksilver and colossus. Forget any violence. At a basic level, many mutants outclass most humans. The true visionary was cyclops. He didn't want mutants to kill humans or rule over them. He just wanted a place where mutants could build a society of their own to try and deal with the unique challenges mutants bring.
It was during the Krokoan era that X-Men killed human civilians for littering. The fact is that Mutants had their own country and STILL went out of their way to attack humans.
@@inkermoy this is a perfect example of why the krakoan era sucked. Instead of an intelligently written honest story about the challenges of an all mutant society. The losers at marvel turned the X-Men into a death cult worshipping, hippie commune. Such a disgrace.
The whole point of the X-Men is that mutants acting in immoral ways are the biggest threat to both humans and mutants alike. Villains like Magneto's actions exacerbated humans' prejudice towards mutants. Eugenicists like Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, and Dark Beast have engaged in mutant genocides multiple times to further their own self-serving goals. By the way, the none of the mutant genocides that Hickman cites in HoX/Pox #1 as reasons for mutants segregating themselves away from humans on Krakoa were done by humans. M-Day was done by Scareltt Witch, another mutant, and the Genosha slaughter was done by Cassandra Nova, a Shi'ar Mummudrai. I don't think he cited the Morlock Massacre, but if he did, that was Mister Sinister. In canon, humans have never been the most dangerous threat to mutants. Also, untrained young emerging mutants were a threat not only to themselves, but to innocent humans around them. Xavier formed the X-Men to address all these problems; but chief among them was the threat evil mutants posed, and that's there in #1 in 1963. I've noticed that the vast majority of X-Men writers over the last two decades seem to have completely forgotten all of this, or they've conveniently ignored it in lieu of shoe-horning their social justice metaphor onto the book.
Yes, you are correct. A lot of people also try to be disingenuous and say that the politics was always there when it was only later added on to the X-Men mythos as time went on and then heavily expanded upon by Chris Claremont. But either liars or people with agendas will always try to say what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's motivation was ever since the start of the comic book was that it was a metaphor for the civil rights movement or women's rights or gay rights when none of that was even the reason in 1963. Those concepts were later added as parallels to what was happening in real life and people seem to believe that the point of the X-Men's comic book was to preach about that using the mutants as a hyperbole for addressing racism, sexism and homophobia. It wasn't until around 1966 after the Sentinels were introduced that those kinds of politics were focused on. And that's like three years after the X-Men's first appearance.
Add Killmonger in Black Panther 2018 to the list. No, he never had a point just like Thanos or Magneto. It's amazing how many look for reason amongst evil characters.
@@egonnn244 yeah this crazy notion that putting a bunch of sci fi weapons in hands of nonwhites would somehow magically fix racism through a potentially violent civil war. I mean the likelihood of that even working out is laughable. Anyone who was violent enough to use said weapons probably would attacked someone who had them so they had more weapons and could sell off the extra for millions. Even if you gave a bunch of gangbangers in the hood energy weapons, they still lack the numbers,training and logistics to mount an assault against the world's governments. All it probably would have done is kill a bunch of people killed and flooded the blackmarkets with sci fi tech. The goal Killmonger claimed he wanted to achieve was never possible just putting means of destruction out into the world, but I think deep down he knew that. He just wanted hurt people and cause pain since that was all he ever knew and felt the world deserved to be like him. Yet there morons who say Killmonger is right, because they're racists who like the idea who harming white folks for doing better than them as a society.
Honestly, I have always interpreted that neither Magneto nor Xavier are right but a middle ground between both, which should be represented by Cyclops, who learn from both!
In the comics, they tried to say that the media gave them that name. The Toad was complaining to Skullbuster II (Cylla Markham) that he hates the way that the news calls the team "The Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants" because it makes the team sound like a bunch of armed bank robbers, and cat burglars and that the news should actually take the "Evil" out of the team name. Skullbuster then remarked that they are still murderers and they have committed acts of mayhem, and senseless, wholesale destruction. Those are criminal acts in the eyes of the law and society. But then Toad tries to justify it by saying that it was a necessity because they are freedom fighters who are rebelling against pro-human, anti-mutant prejudice and persecution. Not even realizing the irony in his statement that what he admitted to doing, killing humans in the name of mutant supremacy, is an especially heinous act of evil. But that's how political and religious zealots are when they make excuses for their terrorism. They always see themselves as the one who is in the right because of muh oppression.
Finally someone to call it for what it is about thanos and magneto because I'm sick of these stans siding with them and rooting for their destructive ambitions
Honestly think that speaks about the moral corruption in society, in which villainy and criminality is celebrated, whereas heroism is a vice and a problem.
Something magneto forgets is that most mutants would die in an extended conflict with humanity. Mutants are outnumbered by humanity by a lot and most mutants are basically normal people with mutants like magneto, jean, and xavier being VERY rare. Peaceful coexistence is the smart choice but magneto all too often flies too close to the sun and that maoes him a bad guy.
To be honest I’m more so surprised that some terrorist grouped with nukes didn’t plant a bunch on krakoa and detonate them when all the mutants were there
Inviting the evil mutants to live on Krakoa would have made some sense if they were essentially on house arrest. The rest of the planet could have said “look, y’all make us nervous, but you have locked up some of our biggest problems so we do appreciate that”. Instead they gave them great big hugs and prominent positions of power.
Thank you. That was honestly one of the main ways Krakoa succeeded in making me side with Marvel Comics's humans for once and not like the mutants of Krakoa at all. What didn't help matters was when Krakoa's government didn't even follow the laws it put in place, didn't care about the death of humans its people caused (ex Nature Girl and Curse) and had the most useless police imaginable that couldn't even stop mutant criminals and make them face justice for breaking the laws (see Nightcrawler's Legionaries). Because many mutant criminals left the island (some after breaking a law) and stayed at Madelyne Pryor's embassy (located in NYC) with nobody really monitoring them in the time they left the island and right before the Gala Fiasco.
Doc. U ended this video perfect. "that was Krakoas original sin!" It was so profound I would have done the thank yous before (in editing) or done them silently afterwords. If you ever do a video on Magneto and or the Krakoa Era that should be in the video!!!!
Magneto: I am an intersectional, generational victim of a human-run tyranny. That's my story, and I am sticking to it, like a magnet on my refrigerator.
He was never right simply by being a villain. But people with busted or nuanced moral compasses want so hard to justify his actions that it’s ok to avenge past sins by lashing out at people that had nothing to do with his grievances.
Magneto and Professor X are both wrong. The two of them fighting is honestly the worst case scenario. They should have just agree to let Professor take a stab at his bit, and if failed let Magneto do his thing to it's endgame. They simply countering each other makes both their endgoals far less obtainable. Magneto tries to overthrow the humans and Professor prevents it, but has a destructive brawl that justifies every fear of mutants and creates a valid reason for things like the Sentinel protocal. So no humans hate mutants more as Magneto's goon likely killed a bunch of people indirectly and now humanity is going be better prepared to stop mutants from overthrowing them. Their wizzing contest is makes sense both their goals fail. The irony is if their powers were switched, they both would probably advance their goals quicker. Magneto would just mind controlled handful of rich and power people needed to sway the masses into accepting mutants or surrendering to them skipping any bloody conflicts. Professor likely would done more constructive things(Like building homes as you could create structures very fast with his powers.) with magnetism as it's inheritly more useful and morale power than telepathy which would probably win over people with good deeds. Telepathy basically has no use that doesn't trample another being's rights to some degree. Professor X basically will never use his powers in a way to win the PR war outright so that potential is wasted on him, and Magneto only going do horrible things with his powers despite it's a tool with plenty of useful potential.
The X-Men are supposed to be a super hero team. The members of the X-Men are supposed to be costumed, super-powered super-heroes, professional adventurers, and professional crime fighters. They are not supposed to be anti-heroes, vigilantes, mercs, or costumed, super-powered super-villains and professional criminals. The only member of the team who is supposed to be a vigilante is Wolverine. And even then that's still held back because he tries his best to not kill people anymore. The X-Men are just supposed to be a team of super heroes that is similar to the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. The only main thing is that almost every member is a superhuman mutant. But other than that, they are only supposed to be going off on great adventures, and fighting crime. Especially against their arch-enemies Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Which is a super-villain team that is supposed to be similar to the Frightful Four and the Masters of Evil. Magneto is supposed to be similar to Doctor Doom and Loki. That's how the Marvel Comics comic book was intended to be when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby had made it. Nothing more, nothing less. As the reader, you are supposed to root for the good guys (Professor X and the X-Men), not the bad guys (Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants). No more, no less. Over the years, from their first appearance in 1963, until the present, something was lost in translation. The comic book readers got the wrong idea. The X-Men's message of good versus evil got twisted. And now, the readers have right and wrong, and crazy and sane, and smart and stupid ass backwards.
I don't know. many members never see themsevles like heroes. Just people wanna know how to be able to control your super-powers to defend himselfs. The team have a bad record in put anti-heroes and even villains in your ranks. How normal people and even another super-heroes teams supposed to trust in them? Many things about the X-Men entire history was poorly done.
@@EvandroACruz I know. It started to get weird around 1996. I had noticed a significant change in the personalities of characters. Like the character Bedlam. He is a good example. He had originally started out as a mutant similar to Luke Cage. He had an evil older brother. But then his brother got killed and he took his code-name and started to act like his brother. A brutal, ruthless fighter. Stories such as that are when I noticed that they wanted the X-Men to start having an attitude similar to the Punisher. That's when things began to get messed up.
Magneto is not a good guy. Or he wasn't. I don't follow the comics but back in the 90's, Magneto was evil, for sure. His plan to eradicate the entire Human race could never be defended.
he was cool for about 7 years as the headmaster of Xavier's school. the new mutants were a nice balance to the older crankier Magneto....then they had to go and make him a full-on villain again in Acts of Vengeance, which they continued into the 1992 Xmen series.
The fact that people are OK with using the greatest engine for creation in the Marvel universe solely for destruction and are apparently fine with random genocide scares me more than anything else. And that's just sticking with the MCU's version of Thanos.
there was also another event called magneto war where basically magneto threatened to change the earths axis with his powers and everyone was and won the island nation of genosha. honetly it was a bit of a mess but in that event magneto in plainclothes goes to talk to some constrution worker so to talk to him about mutants and prove that you know hes right and that humanity will allways hate mutants. he basicaly goes to find some excuse to take over the world. but surprising the guy doesn't have any problems with mutants and when magneto doesn't get the answer he's looking for he basically reveals himself and force him to be afraid of him, and uses that as his excuse. what a D-word
yeah if that recent magneto series it's revealed that in those early days magneto belived he had to act as a straight up villian in order for the x-men to be seen as heroes, but as the series progresses we learn that the hateful vengeful monster we were introducede to is and allways was a part of his personality as was the hero magneto who would sometimes join the x-men. in fact this split in in personality would explain him always changeing his name around
Best run with Magneto was during the 272-275 Uncanny X-Men run where he really questioned whether or not he could behave like Xavier, he finally realized that couldn't be another Xavier, but with regret.
The funniest thing about movie Thanos is, they changed his motivation to wanting to balance the universe, but he could have used the Gauntlet to solve the issues instead of killing half the universe. While you can say its not as layered character-wise, It actually makes more sense to kill half the universe because you want to kill half the universe. X-Men trying to redeem all their villains has always been shit. You end with the heroes having nothing to fight.
I do wonder what has happened to people in the last 10 years, how have morals so utterly twisted in a mere decade? To the point where these writers all think that the villains are the good guys, I just don’t understand what’s happened. That X-Men comic where the 2 X-Men just start killing people because they sell plastic bags is just the perfect example of this. Whoever wrote that comic is a very disturbed individual.
I was really into X-Men comics back in the '90s and that issue was EPIC. The two things I remember from that comic: 1) Ripping the adamantium off Wolverine's claws, revealing they were actually bones; 2) Colossus, grieving the recent death of his little sister, abandoning the X-Men and joining up with Magneto...thereby breaking Kitty Pryde's heart.
It was insane back in the 90's how marvel made magneto a victim and Xavier the bad guy when he was forced to wipe his mind Short of killing him he should have been handed over to either S.H.I.E.L.D or the world court and don't forget the 40 years of character assination done to Xavier.....
Magneto is right, but only because he lives in a universe that Marvel editorial will forbid for ever changing. The Mutants will always be outcasts, point blank.
Ever read universe x? In that story Mags gets the ultimate dose of perspective, as he is kneeling before TOAD. If they do want to redeem magneto and. The X-men in general a bit of humility will do a lot. Magneto is not a paragon of mutant social justice. He’s a villain so absorbed by his cause he lost his humanity in the process.
Need some good recommendations on wholesome comics that still honor actual heroes. You mention them sometimes, but just try to have them more front and center. I think we need them now more than ever.
Yes, we need more aspirational heroes like Superman and SHAZAM more than ever. Modern X books make me sick in how bad these characters becomed in nowadays.
I’d recommend Jeremy Adam’s’ Flash run, Peter J. Tomasi’s Superman run, and Sam Humphries Green Lanterns. Those are some of my favorites series that focus on actual superheroes doing super heroic things.
Chris Claremont has lost his mind..i watched his documentary and it was crazy insane..he is now saying he was on of the first sjw and made really outrageous claims about characters...
It is true. Claremont may be a much better writer than what we have now, but deep down he is another woke clown and would have started making characters homosexual, but was kept in check by EIC Jim Shooter. I mean it was heavily implied that Mystique and Destiny were lesbians, but Claremont couldn't completely out them in the 70s or 80s.
@@josephpatrick6672 I mean we arnt dumb..we knew it but today's writers have to shove it in your face..kinda like renily from game of thrones. In the book it was Suttle but in the show it was like his whole character..these writers don't know how to write..
Ikr I love the game of thrones books...they just prayed together ALOT..in g o t tv it was him basically sucking d.. idk why these writers think everyone is so dumb we can't pick up on anything, it's like here LOOK AT IT! it's weird and quiet honestly disturbing
Sounds more like you and others never actually understood his work or these characters or that Right Wing Knuckle Draggers have been just re-skinning their irrational paranoia with different names, "Woke", "PC", "SJW"and acting like it's something new and abnormal... Almost as if, again, they are choosing to be easily duped willfully ignorant goons for Right Wing grifters and sociopaths?
Magneto was NEVER right even in the new xmen 97 series He had a difficult life and his motivations are somewhat reasonable but that does not take away from the fact that he is a terrorist who has caused chaos around the world. I hope that in UCM they don't come with that saying that Magneto was right because it would be just as illogical as Thanos was right.
The whole "bigot Human thing" is so stupid. There's so many characters in the same city and world with different powers and aren't hated by the majority of humans. In fact, they are loved. The humans don't know if Spider-Man or the Dr Strange, or other beloved heroes are mutants but still love them. Why are the mutants different?
Because bigotry in the real world is JUST as arbitrary. That's the point despite it flying in the face of genre fan logic. Not to mention, just as with many figures celebrated in society at one point or another in the real world, how often has it been an easy task for some baddie to turn seemingly the whole world against some non-mutant super hero or heroes? Despite years of battling madmen, crooks and murders the population of the Marvel Universe have turned on plenty of their protectors at the drop of a hat. If Captain America isn't immune to propaganda by villains, then the Mutants being what they are sure aren't going to be. There's also the in universe phenomenon of Mutant powers for the majority expressing themselves during one's teenage years. Young people under pressures of conformity, filled with angst about their future and fueled by hormones often lose control and around other young people. This makes a lot of parents paranoid about the possibility of any young Mutants being enrolled alongside their own kids. My two cents.
Good video. Magneto is a villain and he is the real Nazi who wants to end humanity. The great truth is that X-Men has become a very boring franchise nowadays, I honestly don't have any enthusiasm for it. Even for some old materials, since a lot of stuff from the past is nowadays used for political proselytism and there were a lot of wrong ideas in the past.
Hey thinking critical, have you ever thought about doing videos on old comics? I’d love to hear your review on certain comics like Tower of Babel, Civil War, or Cry for Justice, or Identity crisis. At least more than certain brief mentions amounts your videos. Do you happen to make those sorts of videos?
@@kingofnonation5843More like just as the state of Israel uses historical and REAL Anti-Semitism and the atrocity of the Holocaust to rationalize the oppression and mass slaughter of the Palestinians, so too with Magneto. You don't get a pass at abusing others just because you were abused in the past.
In Wolverine and the X-Men when Charles Xavier shows the future that the Sentinels wiped out humanity and mutants the Sentinels were shut down but Magneto saw shutting down the Sentinels was an opportunity to destroy Humanity. Magneto never wanted Peace he only wanted to rule Humanity.
with the end of the new xmen show, we need another round of this. I am getting way to many "Magneto was right" videos by tourists in my feed, almost daily.
Magneto was a very bland villain in the 60's and the 70's. A greed despicable evil man that treated your followers like crap that just want conquer the world for your personal whims. Was just when Claremont changed your character for a more tragic figure to make him more sympathetic for the readers,was when he become a interesing character and even so Claremont never portrayed Eric like a good guy. Modern writers just twisted the entire premise of your character and the X-Men like heroes in something dark and cynical to impose your own political worldview in your stories. When you start to praise the villain ways you lost the entire point what all these characters should be.
@@EvandroACruzWell, while I agree that Magneto isn't some figure of "Liberation" and is ultimately an arrogant navel gazing narcissist... Facts are Claremont was building over a decade and a half or so to Mags becoming "reformed". Like... This is common knowledge and part of the reason MARVEL. fired him from the franchise he practically built singlehandedly into the most popular comic book of the late 70's to the early 90's.
@@EvandroACruz Which again happens because Claremont was asking to be able to do things like kill Logan and turning Mags over to becoming an unequivocally heroic character. Marvel balked so he wrote the first issues of the famous new "X-Men" title (No Uncanny) that had the all time best selling #1 with all the variants and then left the franchise he had turned into such a phenomenon. After that Marvel wanted Mags and his characterization to be locked into being the standard bad guy which is why FATAL ATTRACTIONS happens. Up until that new "X-Men" title Magneto under Claremont was on a very different trajectory.
I've only seen the movies, so I can only speak to the characters that were portrayed on the screen. The conclusion I drew was that Xavier and Magneto were both extremists. Magneto was tyrannical and motivated by fear and hatred. Xavier was naive and motivated by a savior complex. It's summed up perfectly by Magneto in Days of Futures past. "We were young. We didn't know any better". It was when they joined forces and helped cancel out each other's flaws that they were able to save the mutants, without become monsters themselves. Balance was always the key. And it makes for a great story. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix on the other hand; hot garbage that did nothing for the story or character development. I just erased those from my memory. The comics probably took it in a completely different angle that I'm not familiar with, of course.
I've always felt that Magneto is right (It's only a matter of time before the humans move against us, therefore we should strike first) but Xavier formed the X-Men to prove him wrong.
I think it's a chicken or egg situation. Perhaps, humanity would have moved against mutantkind, but Magneto and other villains didn't help. In fact, they probably turned the greater majority of humans against mutants, even if they were sympathetic or apathetic beforehand.
For me, aside from people using it as a meme. The ones saying Magneto was right, are people from marginalized communities who, like Magneto, has given humanity many chances to prove them wrong. And yet every single time we've been shown that people will keep going back to bigotry and hatred towards that which they don't understand. MLK was murdered before he ever got the see his dream realized. There have been multiple genocides just in the last few decades. No his methods aren't right, but the thought that humanity will never change is something a lot of people have come to think. And honestly you can't fault them for that.
Now Bob is just a tragedy because it's clear, the man never mentally left high school. I don't know what happened to him, but it's clear that it stunted his growth as a person.
@@EvandroACruz that’s why I loved a.x.e. For what Kronos punching a whole in his chest was one of my favorite comic moments. But in the end even that event was stupid nothing mattered at all no repercussions for anything.
To me the best Magneto is when he acknowledges that Xavier was right and he tries to live up to Chuck's example. Age of Apocalypse is probably my favorite version of Magneto for this reason. I think Magneto is at his most interesting when he's a villain looking for redemption. But I'm a sucker for redemptive stories.
In the Days Of Future Past story, Magneto had turned good and became the leader of the last surviving members of the X-Men after the Sentinels had killed Professor X and most of the other members of the X-Men. That was the first time I had ever seen Magneto want to atone for his past crimes and help the surviving superhuman mutants and also even help the surviving superhumans, and humans, too. He realized the error of his ways after the Master Mold and the Sentinels had exterminated approximately 98% of all mutants on the Planet Earth, and vowed to avenge the destruction of the entire world at the hands of those evil giant humanoid robot warriors. He even had gotten crippled in battle, just like Professor Charles Xavier did, and was bound to a high-tech hoverchair similar to the one that Xavier had used in the 1990s. He was the one who had saved Wolverine, Shadowcat, Colossus, Storm, Rachel Summers and Franklin Richards from the New York City mutant detention camp, and then organized their secret mission for them to try to alter history and change reality for the better. I liked Magneto's older, future self from that alternate future timeline. I thought that he was actually a pretty cool character.
Magneto is one of the greatest and most powerful villian/anti-hero of all time in the Marve comics. He is one of my favorite and complex characters in this series. And with that said, Magneto was never right, ever. He became the very thing(s) he hated and this becomes lost on so many fans for whatever reason. But the Magneto that was constructively criticized in this video is now dead. He has been resurrected and unlike past incarnations, Magneto appears to actually and critically be considering how his actions, down to the smallest decision, affect both mutants and humans alike. So we'll see how the latest incarnation of Magnus plays out. Hopefully he will finally find peace.
"When you kill children because your angry at them. You cant be right anymore" Meanwhile, Batman slits his sons throat/carotid and DC bends over backwards to exuse and memory hole it
@EvandroACruz no, i have eyes, thats the neck. And blood only really fountians like that when its an arterys. And why he immediately collapses from blood loss, given you bleed out very quickly from a arterys slice. And more than that, Jason take two batarangs to the shoulders duing the rooftop fight, he didnt go down then. So why does the third batarang take him out, cause it was the neck, not the shoulder. Thats why DC wont ever acknowledge it, cause Bruce pretty much tried to kill his kid to save said kids murder.
"Ideology, that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
The Red Skull (Johann Schmidt) is literally the last of the original Nazi Germans. Magneto just acts like the mutant supremacist equivalent of them. He is the closest approximation to a mutant version of Adolph Hitler who is fanatically anti-human and fanatically pro-mutant. He even considers superhumans like Spider-Man to be only worthy of being servants to mutants but never their equal. He only sees them as superior to normal people who don't have powers, but not superior like how mutants are in the grand scheme of things. The irony is that he hates actual Nazis with a fiery vengeance.
The humans murder his bloodline aswell as his daughter when he try to live a normal life with his wive and child. The human constantly torturing,murdering experimenting on mutant. Let not forget the sentinel locating mutant in the home to capture for experiments 🧪.
@@kingofnonation5843This is literally the justification Israel is using to genocide the Palestinians and all the Lefty fans of "Magneto was Right" CHOOSE not to see it. "I mean... They attacked US! What are we supposed to do? Just take it? No... We can indiscriminately kill and oppress because it happened to us too often in the past. NEVER AGAIN." It's not subtext, it's just text but the Che Cosplayers on the Left choose to be blind.
Seems like yet another symptom of this postmodern era of "subverting expectations" and "deconstructing the canon", and not just in comics, just look at movies how they glamorize villainy, transform villains into "misunderstood victims", and even demonizing heroes, making them super flawed, turning them into overzealous assholes and even into actual villains
Yes this all the entire point of Krakoa Era. A big cautionary tale with the X-Men becoming the bad guys.
Fun times 😄
The KEY here is that modern-day comic writers do not understand the difference between heroics and villains. They literally think that a villan can be considered a hero just because they had a hard life. What REALLY makes a hero is someone who does good, even though they have had a hard life and in spite of the fact that they may have suffered. Magneto could be calked an anti-hero at some points of the xmen story, but mostly, he has been a villain.
When you're writing from a worldview of postmodern relativism there is no objective "good" or "evil". Morality is just a tool, like Santa Claus giving "good" boys and girls presents, to con the masses into staying in line. So, if you deny the existence of virtue, you can't write heroes who are paragons of virtue.
So "heroes" either become like Superman is depicted in Batman Returns: boy scouts blindly following corrupt politicians based on outdated "values" like patriotism and morality; or like Batman, people in trouble for bucking the system to actually help people. That's how many of the modern comic writers see villains. "Bad guys" are just people acting out because they are VICTIMS (and thus _justified_ striking out against the system and people that victimized them).
The irony here is that these writers THINK they're "heroes" bucking the system, striking back a The Man, speaking Truth to Power when they ARE the System, the Man, the Power.
Also if the character is LGBTQ they get a pass even if they are a mass murdering rapist like Mystique.
And historical writing there doesn't have to be a clear, good side and evil side because in life there isn't a clear good side and evil side. X-Men was inspired by the civil rights movement And the whole point of the series is neither side was right and magneto and Professor X needed to work together to accomplish their dream. Magneto was right about people faring mutants and what they would do because they were afraid
Luke 6:33 "If you do good to only those who do good to you what credit is that to you ? even sinners do that"
_"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."_
I know it's become a cliché, but Nietzsche's quote pretty well sums up what you were saying about the lesson of Magneto.
Even if we leave morality aside, the X-Men siding with Magneto make for lazier, more boring stories. Magneto's existence and his allies create a greater divide among mutants and give them individual stances regarding how they are treated. It allows for debates and challenging ideas, which is why Magneto and Xavier's stances are so good.
If the X-Men just become like Magneto, the story loses a lot of creativity. Now is just the X-Men being villains and fighting humans and heroes, which has been the status quo since the mid-2000s.
It’s not at all shocking how many people assert Magneto is in the right despite the mountain of atrocities he committed against humans and mutants alike.
The truth is, he never left that concentration camp.
He only acknowledges the worst in people, and constantly brings it out in them, either through dragging others down with him or causing violence to stoke the fire of conflict between humans and mutants.
Despite all of that he is faced with the best that people have to offer every day. The X-Men not included, all around him are men and women putting their own wellbeing at risk to help people in crisis, sometimes dying in the process.
But he chooses to ignore that because all he really sees after all these years is Nazis and barbed wire fences. He can’t see past himself and his own experience, which isn’t dissimilar to the writers of mainstream comics.
So it isn’t surprising that Magneto is their champion.
This is what I've so disliked about the whole "Krakoan Era". Xavier JOINED Magneto's side. Professor X was always about recognizing mutants and non-mutants were still all HUMAN - and the "utopia" Xavier sought (to the extent he was actually seeking a utopia) was one in which humans could live side by side regardless of their race or mutation. Magneto operated under the illusion that mutants were a whole new species (racistly named "Homo Superior" because they're BETTER than "humans") and that peacefully coexisting with such inherently inferiors would be impossible. Magneto's vision of a "mutant utopia" - and Magneto WAS a utopianist - was one in which "vanilla" humans were enslaved or extinct. And on Krakoa, Xavier joined with Magneto in creating a racist "utopia" that dismissed or exploited everyone not mutant - to the extent that they even tried to kidnap the Richard's kids from their family. There is NO WAY Xavier would ever have signed off on that in the days when he was still a GOOD GUY.
But the X-men aren't good guys any more.
Because these books are written by people who have wholly bought into Critical Theory and see segregation as the SOLUTION to racism instead of a SYMPTOM of racism.
A crazy violent activist that couldn't back down due to guilt sure sounds familiar...
Reminds me of the "Act of Vengeance" crossover where the Red Skull of all people essentially called Magento out of his hypocrisy and how Magneto's saviour complex is just an excuse for what is essentially mutant supremacy ......and it is more telling that Magento doesn't respond or at least hesitates for a while to Red Skull's "you and I are not so different" claims,
Evil can't stand hypocrisy.
I find it weird that magneto would even tolerate red skulls existence considering red skulls a nazi and magneto is a holocaust survivor
@@jakerooke174Magneto buried Red Skull alive not long afterwards, so I’m pretty sure he doesn’t.
People forget that Magneto in his early appearance talk about how human must be slaves to mutantkind.
No, they don't forget. They DON'T KNOW. Most of the current batch of X-Men fans are 'tourists'. They're here for a couple of movies and then they move on.
Some people got offended on twitter (shocking I know) by someone calling him Mutant Hitler, because he is a "holocaust survivor" and tried to dogpile the guy, but someone else posted pictures of him dressing people up in WW2 German uniforms and rounding up normal people. The dialogue even shows he knows exactly what he's doing.
Well in the context of xmen 97 magneto is indeed right
@thebatman7347 It because they took out all the terrible things he did.
Like in the comic, When he took over Genosha he intentionally made horrible prison camps for Genoshan Mutant with sick with ghe Legacy Virus because he wanted his son to see it and be so horrified that he would think joining him would give him power to make sure that Genoshan Humans and Mutants would be treated better.
@@Underworlddream If you're gonna bring in shit from the comics don't pick n choose , bring it all in including all tge horrible shit humans have done to mutants then tell me whether magnito was still right or not
Spoiler , he's still right
I think this really started back in the late 2000s when Cyclops kept doing shittier and shittier things to try and keep Mutantkind alive and was effectively validated for all of it by the narrative. This in turn helped narratively validate a lot (though certainly not all) of the shitty stuff that Magneto did as well. Personally, I think that was a mistake.
It also didn't help with Ultimate X-Men in that same time period having comic books in the Ultimate Universe show the mutants doing a bunch of edge lord, grim dark trying way too hard bullshit. Every character was dismal and murky. There was not a single one of those mutant characters who wasn't an asshole. Why would I ever want to root for any of them? Ultimate Wolverine especially. Marvel Comics just really shit on all of the X-Men characters ever since the late 1990s and early 2000s.
They shifted the X-men to near constantly be an us vs them for survival situation.
The problem with Magneto is that he's a narcissist with almost unlimited power. He doesn't care about anyone's opinion other than his own. He's the opposite of Spider-Man, he has the power, but he doesn't have the responsibility that tempers it.
Unfortunately a lot of modern day writers have a villains mindset and agree with Magneto. They think putting ideology over peoples lives is something that is noble and that the ends justify the means.
Exactly,
it takes a certain type of individual to agree, much less endorse anything Magneto says/does.
The Krakoan era did a strange work. They kept most of the villains the same but had the heroes bend their morals. They didn’t even try to vet anyone. Even if they try to explain it through his friendship with Charles, at what point could they ever justify Sinister, Sabertooth, Selene, Shaw, or any of the other mutants who have never been anything but antagonistic/selfish being there AND having seats of power
TThe people who say Thanos was right have only experienced Thanos through the movies. Thanos never cared about other people or environmental causes.
Exactly thanos only cares about destruction to please his lover death
Movie thanos is also wrong. The tragedy of the commons is a failed premise
I never understood in the movies even why they couldn’t just make thanos a characters that worshipped death and wanted to please her. The “life is using you much resources” is always dumb to me
@@chrischreative2245I always felt his environmental issue was a smoke screen for his murder obsession anyways. Take away half the population and there's a good chance society will collapse and everyone starts using dirtier resources at a faster rate to survive. Hardly the full bellies he advertised.
Certainly there were species that were not using up their resources that got halved and fell into desperation.
@@chrischreative2245 the movie explanation was easier to explain to the audience, partly because it gives a comprehensible reason for why Thanos wants the Infinity Stones whereas a love for Death could be accomplished by all sorts of other means. Then you would also have to explain Death as a character and do that all in one movie. Frankly, the choice they made was for the best if the mess that is Phases 4 and 5 of the MCU is any indication.
I feel the most sympathetic Magneto ever was was when he tried to replace Charles Xavier and how he tried to guide the New Mutants, and the sorrow he felt when Doug Ramsey was killed. The panel of him kneeling in front of Doug’s body covered in a sheet….powerful stuff.
dude, those couple of issues were Doug is killed are hardcore stuff. Definitely the heavier storyline of the Fall of the Mutants arc
The problem is they pretend that mutants aren't just humans with powers. To put it in context it's like creating an island filled with one race and pardoning killers and murderers just because they're the same race. That is just nuts. They have the same feelings and suffer from the same short comings. The closest excuse anyone had was that mutants powers could flare up unexpectedly making them dangerous - fair point but once those powers are controlled then there is no longer the fear of sudden power use. At that point they are no different from metahumans
Exactly! Also, in the context of Marvel and DC Comics, what is the difference between a metahuman and a mutant?
Magneto was not completely right in his solution to the problem. He was right about the problem. Humans and mutants need to be able to live separately. Mutants create a vastly uneven playing field in society. Who am I going to draft for my football team. 2 regular human players? No, i'm drafting quicksilver and colossus. Forget any violence. At a basic level, many mutants outclass most humans. The true visionary was cyclops. He didn't want mutants to kill humans or rule over them. He just wanted a place where mutants could build a society of their own to try and deal with the unique challenges mutants bring.
Preeeach🔥🔥🔥
I disagre Xavier dream is the right path. Mutants are humans in the end of day.
Do those unique challenges include what to wear to the gala?
It was during the Krokoan era that X-Men killed human civilians for littering.
The fact is that Mutants had their own country and STILL went out of their way to attack humans.
@@inkermoy this is a perfect example of why the krakoan era sucked. Instead of an intelligently written honest story about the challenges of an all mutant society. The losers at marvel turned the X-Men into a death cult worshipping, hippie commune. Such a disgrace.
The whole point of the X-Men is that mutants acting in immoral ways are the biggest threat to both humans and mutants alike. Villains like Magneto's actions exacerbated humans' prejudice towards mutants. Eugenicists like Apocalypse, Mister Sinister, and Dark Beast have engaged in mutant genocides multiple times to further their own self-serving goals.
By the way, the none of the mutant genocides that Hickman cites in HoX/Pox #1 as reasons for mutants segregating themselves away from humans on Krakoa were done by humans. M-Day was done by Scareltt Witch, another mutant, and the Genosha slaughter was done by Cassandra Nova, a Shi'ar Mummudrai. I don't think he cited the Morlock Massacre, but if he did, that was Mister Sinister. In canon, humans have never been the most dangerous threat to mutants.
Also, untrained young emerging mutants were a threat not only to themselves, but to innocent humans around them. Xavier formed the X-Men to address all these problems; but chief among them was the threat evil mutants posed, and that's there in #1 in 1963.
I've noticed that the vast majority of X-Men writers over the last two decades seem to have completely forgotten all of this, or they've conveniently ignored it in lieu of shoe-horning their social justice metaphor onto the book.
Yes, you are correct. A lot of people also try to be disingenuous and say that the politics was always there when it was only later added on to the X-Men mythos as time went on and then heavily expanded upon by Chris Claremont. But either liars or people with agendas will always try to say what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's motivation was ever since the start of the comic book was that it was a metaphor for the civil rights movement or women's rights or gay rights when none of that was even the reason in 1963.
Those concepts were later added as parallels to what was happening in real life and people seem to believe that the point of the X-Men's comic book was to preach about that using the mutants as a hyperbole for addressing racism, sexism and homophobia. It wasn't until around 1966 after the Sentinels were introduced that those kinds of politics were focused on. And that's like three years after the X-Men's first appearance.
Add Killmonger in Black Panther 2018 to the list. No, he never had a point just like Thanos or Magneto. It's amazing how many look for reason amongst evil characters.
Killmonger in that film was the typical leftist ideologue that pollutes modern society
Is it me or did that movie really try to convince me that he was right?
@@egonnn244 i didn't notice it back in 2018 hut in retrospect i can't help but think that.
@@egonnn244 yeah this crazy notion that putting a bunch of sci fi weapons in hands of nonwhites would somehow magically fix racism through a potentially violent civil war. I mean the likelihood of that even working out is laughable. Anyone who was violent enough to use said weapons probably would attacked someone who had them so they had more weapons and could sell off the extra for millions. Even if you gave a bunch of gangbangers in the hood energy weapons, they still lack the numbers,training and logistics to mount an assault against the world's governments. All it probably would have done is kill a bunch of people killed and flooded the blackmarkets with sci fi tech. The goal Killmonger claimed he wanted to achieve was never possible just putting means of destruction out into the world, but I think deep down he knew that. He just wanted hurt people and cause pain since that was all he ever knew and felt the world deserved to be like him. Yet there morons who say Killmonger is right, because they're racists who like the idea who harming white folks for doing better than them as a society.
Except in that context, replace ‘humans’ with ‘white people’ and you get people trying to justify African colonialism.
Honestly, I have always interpreted that neither Magneto nor Xavier are right but a middle ground between both, which should be represented by Cyclops, who learn from both!
literally the leader of the group called: the brotherhood of EVIL mutants. lol. surely magneto isn't evil. lol.
In the comics, they tried to say that the media gave them that name. The Toad was complaining to Skullbuster II (Cylla Markham) that he hates the way that the news calls the team "The Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants" because it makes the team sound like a bunch of armed bank robbers, and cat burglars and that the news should actually take the "Evil" out of the team name.
Skullbuster then remarked that they are still murderers and they have committed acts of mayhem, and senseless, wholesale destruction. Those are criminal acts in the eyes of the law and society. But then Toad tries to justify it by saying that it was a necessity because they are freedom fighters who are rebelling against pro-human, anti-mutant prejudice and persecution. Not even realizing the irony in his statement that what he admitted to doing, killing humans in the name of mutant supremacy, is an especially heinous act of evil.
But that's how political and religious zealots are when they make excuses for their terrorism. They always see themselves as the one who is in the right because of muh oppression.
@@incubustimelord5947 ironically in present x-men comics, they're now what the brotherhood was. lol
Finally someone to call it for what it is about thanos and magneto because I'm sick of these stans siding with them and rooting for their destructive ambitions
Honestly think that speaks about the moral corruption in society, in which villainy and criminality is celebrated, whereas heroism is a vice and a problem.
Something magneto forgets is that most mutants would die in an extended conflict with humanity. Mutants are outnumbered by humanity by a lot and most mutants are basically normal people with mutants like magneto, jean, and xavier being VERY rare. Peaceful coexistence is the smart choice but magneto all too often flies too close to the sun and that maoes him a bad guy.
To be honest I’m more so surprised that some terrorist grouped with nukes didn’t plant a bunch on krakoa and detonate them when all the mutants were there
I can’t believe that a current writer actually understands who Magneto really is. Wow. Maybe the pendulum is swinging back.
Inviting the evil mutants to live on Krakoa would have made some sense if they were essentially on house arrest. The rest of the planet could have said “look, y’all make us nervous, but you have locked up some of our biggest problems so we do appreciate that”. Instead they gave them great big hugs and prominent positions of power.
Thank you.
That was honestly one of the main ways Krakoa succeeded in making me side with Marvel Comics's humans for once and not like the mutants of Krakoa at all.
What didn't help matters was when Krakoa's government didn't even follow the laws it put in place, didn't care about the death of humans its people caused (ex Nature Girl and Curse) and had the most useless police imaginable that couldn't even stop mutant criminals and make them face justice for breaking the laws (see Nightcrawler's Legionaries).
Because many mutant criminals left the island (some after breaking a law) and stayed at Madelyne Pryor's embassy (located in NYC) with nobody really monitoring them in the time they left the island and right before the Gala Fiasco.
I thought it was weird that Apocalypse was on the council
The mere existence of magnéto is too prove he wasn't right.
As Wes says - he's become the exact genocidal racist he's fighting against.
@@liljenborg2517 I always thought it was more about revenge than proving anybody right.
Doc. U ended this video perfect. "that was Krakoas original sin!" It was so profound I would have done the thank yous before (in editing) or done them silently afterwords. If you ever do a video on Magneto and or the Krakoa Era that should be in the video!!!!
Magneto: I am an intersectional, generational victim of a human-run tyranny. That's my story, and I am sticking to it, like a magnet on my refrigerator.
This was a damn good video about exactly WHY Magneto is irredeemable.
He came close to redemption when he became a teacher for the new mutants.
He was never right simply by being a villain. But people with busted or nuanced moral compasses want so hard to justify his actions that it’s ok to avenge past sins by lashing out at people that had nothing to do with his grievances.
Magneto and Professor X are both wrong. The two of them fighting is honestly the worst case scenario. They should have just agree to let Professor take a stab at his bit, and if failed let Magneto do his thing to it's endgame. They simply countering each other makes both their endgoals far less obtainable. Magneto tries to overthrow the humans and Professor prevents it, but has a destructive brawl that justifies every fear of mutants and creates a valid reason for things like the Sentinel protocal. So no humans hate mutants more as Magneto's goon likely killed a bunch of people indirectly and now humanity is going be better prepared to stop mutants from overthrowing them. Their wizzing contest is makes sense both their goals fail.
The irony is if their powers were switched, they both would probably advance their goals quicker. Magneto would just mind controlled handful of rich and power people needed to sway the masses into accepting mutants or surrendering to them skipping any bloody conflicts. Professor likely would done more constructive things(Like building homes as you could create structures very fast with his powers.) with magnetism as it's inheritly more useful and morale power than telepathy which would probably win over people with good deeds. Telepathy basically has no use that doesn't trample another being's rights to some degree. Professor X basically will never use his powers in a way to win the PR war outright so that potential is wasted on him, and Magneto only going do horrible things with his powers despite it's a tool with plenty of useful potential.
I find it really funny how back in the 80s in mark grunwalds captain america red who is an actual nazi calls magneto out on his hypocrisy.
The X-Men are supposed to be a super hero team. The members of the X-Men are supposed to be costumed, super-powered super-heroes, professional adventurers, and professional crime fighters. They are not supposed to be anti-heroes, vigilantes, mercs, or costumed, super-powered super-villains and professional criminals. The only member of the team who is supposed to be a vigilante is Wolverine. And even then that's still held back because he tries his best to not kill people anymore.
The X-Men are just supposed to be a team of super heroes that is similar to the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. The only main thing is that almost every member is a superhuman mutant. But other than that, they are only supposed to be going off on great adventures, and fighting crime. Especially against their arch-enemies Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Which is a super-villain team that is supposed to be similar to the Frightful Four and the Masters of Evil. Magneto is supposed to be similar to Doctor Doom and Loki. That's how the Marvel Comics comic book was intended to be when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby had made it. Nothing more, nothing less. As the reader, you are supposed to root for the good guys (Professor X and the X-Men), not the bad guys (Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants). No more, no less.
Over the years, from their first appearance in 1963, until the present, something was lost in translation. The comic book readers got the wrong idea. The X-Men's message of good versus evil got twisted. And now, the readers have right and wrong, and crazy and sane, and smart and stupid ass backwards.
I don't know. many members never see themsevles like heroes. Just people wanna know how to be able to control your super-powers to defend himselfs. The team have a bad record in put anti-heroes and even villains in your ranks. How normal people and even another super-heroes teams supposed to trust in them? Many things about the X-Men entire history was poorly done.
@@EvandroACruz I know. It started to get weird around 1996. I had noticed a significant change in the personalities of characters. Like the character Bedlam. He is a good example. He had originally started out as a mutant similar to Luke Cage. He had an evil older brother. But then his brother got killed and he took his code-name and started to act like his brother. A brutal, ruthless fighter. Stories such as that are when I noticed that they wanted the X-Men to start having an attitude similar to the Punisher. That's when things began to get messed up.
I don't understand how any sane person could believe magneto was right..
I spend most of my waking hours thinking similar to that when seeing the state of the world
Magneto is not a good guy. Or he wasn't. I don't follow the comics but back in the 90's, Magneto was evil, for sure. His plan to eradicate the entire Human race could never be defended.
He became an anti hero in the 90s and could have redeemed himself if writers did not revert him back to a villain.
he was cool for about 7 years as the headmaster of Xavier's school. the new mutants were a nice balance to the older crankier Magneto....then they had to go and make him a full-on villain again in Acts of Vengeance, which they continued into the 1992 Xmen series.
The fact that people are OK with using the greatest engine for creation in the Marvel universe solely for destruction and are apparently fine with random genocide scares me more than anything else. And that's just sticking with the MCU's version of Thanos.
there was also another event called magneto war where basically magneto threatened to change the earths axis with his powers and everyone was and won the island nation of genosha. honetly it was a bit of a mess but in that event magneto in plainclothes goes to talk to some constrution worker so to talk to him about mutants and prove that you know hes right and that humanity will allways hate mutants. he basicaly goes to find some excuse to take over the world. but surprising the guy doesn't have any problems with mutants and when magneto doesn't get the answer he's looking for he basically reveals himself and force him to be afraid of him, and uses that as his excuse. what a D-word
I remember that. A great example of WHY Magento is a villian.
yeah if that recent magneto series it's revealed that in those early days magneto belived he had to act as a straight up villian in order for the x-men to be seen as heroes, but as the series progresses we learn that the hateful vengeful monster we were introducede to is and allways was a part of his personality as was the hero magneto who would sometimes join the x-men. in fact this split in in personality would explain him always changeing his name around
People who think Magento is right should go to the therapist.
Krakoa era made both Xavier and Magneto wrong. Senator Kelly was right all along.
Yup HoX/PoX made me hate the X-Men
lol. so much that civil rights allegory. lol. no humans allowed. mutants only.
The F.O.H were proven right.
Best run with Magneto was during the 272-275 Uncanny X-Men run where he really questioned whether or not he could behave like Xavier, he finally realized that couldn't be another Xavier, but with regret.
How do you justify locking up stilt man for robbery when magneto & sabretooth are on your teams??
Magneto was never right in the first place
A villain's hero is another villain. Magneto was always right to collectivists who believe in the ends justify the means.
especially he is the leader of the group: the brotherhood of EVIL mutants. that's really obvious.
The funniest thing about movie Thanos is, they changed his motivation to wanting to balance the universe, but he could have used the Gauntlet to solve the issues instead of killing half the universe. While you can say its not as layered character-wise, It actually makes more sense to kill half the universe because you want to kill half the universe.
X-Men trying to redeem all their villains has always been shit. You end with the heroes having nothing to fight.
Redeeming villains isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when you apply it to guys like Thanos or Mr. Sinister, its like "uh...what?"
Dok's description of Magneto's evil pretty much covers every wifi password nut-job working for Marvel right now.
Mordern writers ARE what Magneto has become.
I do wonder what has happened to people in the last 10 years, how have morals so utterly twisted in a mere decade? To the point where these writers all think that the villains are the good guys, I just don’t understand what’s happened.
That X-Men comic where the 2 X-Men just start killing people because they sell plastic bags is just the perfect example of this. Whoever wrote that comic is a very disturbed individual.
Who did the magneto art on the thumbnail?
NVM Fount it: Mike Deodato jr
Mike Deodato - New Avengers #19
I was really into X-Men comics back in the '90s and that issue was EPIC. The two things I remember from that comic: 1) Ripping the adamantium off Wolverine's claws, revealing they were actually bones; 2) Colossus, grieving the recent death of his little sister, abandoning the X-Men and joining up with Magneto...thereby breaking Kitty Pryde's heart.
"WE WAZ MAGNETO N SHET!"
"DAS RITE!!!"
It was insane back in the 90's how marvel made magneto a victim and Xavier the bad guy when he was forced to wipe his mind Short of killing him he should have been handed over to either S.H.I.E.L.D or the world court and don't forget the 40 years of character assination done to Xavier.....
This is what reading comics is all about! This conversation right here! This is really good stuff fellas.
Magneto is right, but only because he lives in a universe that Marvel editorial will forbid for ever changing. The Mutants will always be outcasts, point blank.
I just like magneto as a villain
Ever read universe x?
In that story Mags gets the ultimate dose of perspective, as he is kneeling before TOAD.
If they do want to redeem magneto and. The X-men in general a bit of humility will do a lot.
Magneto is not a paragon of mutant social justice.
He’s a villain so absorbed by his cause he lost his humanity in the process.
Need some good recommendations on wholesome comics that still honor actual heroes. You mention them sometimes, but just try to have them more front and center. I think we need them now more than ever.
Yes, we need more aspirational heroes like Superman and SHAZAM more than ever. Modern X books make me sick in how bad these characters becomed in nowadays.
I’d recommend Jeremy Adam’s’ Flash run, Peter J. Tomasi’s Superman run, and Sam Humphries Green Lanterns. Those are some of my favorites series that focus on actual superheroes doing super heroic things.
Chris Claremont has lost his mind..i watched his documentary and it was crazy insane..he is now saying he was on of the first sjw and made really outrageous claims about characters...
It is true. Claremont may be a much better writer than what we have now, but deep down he is another woke clown and would have started making characters homosexual, but was kept in check by EIC Jim Shooter. I mean it was heavily implied that Mystique and Destiny were lesbians, but Claremont couldn't completely out them in the 70s or 80s.
@@josephpatrick6672 I mean we arnt dumb..we knew it but today's writers have to shove it in your face..kinda like renily from game of thrones. In the book it was Suttle but in the show it was like his whole character..these writers don't know how to write..
Ikr I love the game of thrones books...they just prayed together ALOT..in g o t tv it was him basically sucking d.. idk why these writers think everyone is so dumb we can't pick up on anything, it's like here LOOK AT IT! it's weird and quiet honestly disturbing
@@josephpatrick6672 Wish I understood these people a bit better.
Sounds more like you and others never actually understood his work or these characters or that Right Wing Knuckle Draggers have been just re-skinning their irrational paranoia with different names, "Woke", "PC", "SJW"and acting like it's something new and abnormal... Almost as if, again, they are choosing to be easily duped willfully ignorant goons for Right Wing grifters and sociopaths?
In the future, once marvel & DC shutdown for good I’m gonna wear a shirt with the slogan ( Wes was right)
Nice one bro.
Magneto was NEVER right even in the new xmen 97 series
He had a difficult life and his motivations are somewhat reasonable but that does not take away from the fact that he is a terrorist who has caused chaos around the world.
I hope that in UCM they don't come with that saying that Magneto was right because it would be just as illogical as Thanos was right.
The whole "bigot Human thing" is so stupid.
There's so many characters in the same city and world with different powers and aren't hated by the majority of humans. In fact, they are loved. The humans don't know if Spider-Man or the Dr Strange, or other beloved heroes are mutants but still love them. Why are the mutants different?
Because bigotry in the real world is JUST as arbitrary. That's the point despite it flying in the face of genre fan logic. Not to mention, just as with many figures celebrated in society at one point or another in the real world, how often has it been an easy task for some baddie to turn seemingly the whole world against some non-mutant super hero or heroes? Despite years of battling madmen, crooks and murders the population of the Marvel Universe have turned on plenty of their protectors at the drop of a hat. If Captain America isn't immune to propaganda by villains, then the Mutants being what they are sure aren't going to be. There's also the in universe phenomenon of Mutant powers for the majority expressing themselves during one's teenage years. Young people under pressures of conformity, filled with angst about their future and fueled by hormones often lose control and around other young people. This makes a lot of parents paranoid about the possibility of any young Mutants being enrolled alongside their own kids.
My two cents.
Good video. Magneto is a villain and he is the real Nazi who wants to end humanity. The great truth is that X-Men has become a very boring franchise nowadays, I honestly don't have any enthusiasm for it. Even for some old materials, since a lot of stuff from the past is nowadays used for political proselytism and there were a lot of wrong ideas in the past.
How is Magento a Nazi? Because continuity and recons are all over his history and tenure as an Antagonist.
The best example of this is when Red Skull outright called him the Mutant Austrian painter and Magneto had no response.
When did Hickman forget?
He did create this by the way he brought in his doofuses after all to continue his work.
Hey thinking critical, have you ever thought about doing videos on old comics? I’d love to hear your review on certain comics like Tower of Babel, Civil War, or Cry for Justice, or Identity crisis. At least more than certain brief mentions amounts your videos. Do you happen to make those sorts of videos?
People who say magneto is Right are basically agreeing with genocide.
And given Magneto's backstory makes him even more of a flaming hot hypocrite.
Mutants must submit
@@kingofnonation5843More like just as the state of Israel uses historical and REAL Anti-Semitism and the atrocity of the Holocaust to rationalize the oppression and mass slaughter of the Palestinians, so too with Magneto.
You don't get a pass at abusing others just because you were abused in the past.
In Wolverine and the X-Men when Charles Xavier shows the future that the Sentinels wiped out humanity and mutants the Sentinels were shut down but Magneto saw shutting down the Sentinels was an opportunity to destroy Humanity.
Magneto never wanted Peace he only wanted to rule Humanity.
with the end of the new xmen show, we need another round of this. I am getting way to many "Magneto was right" videos by tourists in my feed, almost daily.
Terrific rundown ✌️
fatal attractions foil card covers! oh hell yeah! When I was a kid this was the best thing in the world haha. I can look on those things for hours.
Magneto was a very bland villain in the 60's and the 70's. A greed despicable evil man that treated your followers like crap that just want conquer the world for your personal whims. Was just when Claremont changed your character for a more tragic figure to make him more sympathetic for the readers,was when he become a interesing character and even so Claremont never portrayed Eric like a good guy. Modern writers just twisted the entire premise of your character and the X-Men like heroes in something dark and cynical to impose your own political worldview in your stories. When you start to praise the villain ways you lost the entire point what all these characters should be.
Not sure about that. Are you sure Claremont wasn't the one who started portraying Eric like a good guy?
@@earlsmith7428 Yes.He never was a good guy even under Claremont pen.
@@EvandroACruzWell, while I agree that Magneto isn't some figure of "Liberation" and is ultimately an arrogant navel gazing narcissist... Facts are Claremont was building over a decade and a half or so to Mags becoming "reformed".
Like... This is common knowledge and part of the reason MARVEL. fired him from the franchise he practically built singlehandedly into the most popular comic book of the late 70's to the early 90's.
@@miguelvelez7221 He become evil again the 90's.
@@EvandroACruz Which again happens because Claremont was asking to be able to do things like kill Logan and turning Mags over to becoming an unequivocally heroic character. Marvel balked so he wrote the first issues of the famous new "X-Men" title (No Uncanny) that had the all time best selling #1 with all the variants and then left the franchise he had turned into such a phenomenon. After that Marvel wanted Mags and his characterization to be locked into being the standard bad guy which is why FATAL ATTRACTIONS happens. Up until that new "X-Men" title Magneto under Claremont was on a very different trajectory.
I've only seen the movies, so I can only speak to the characters that were portrayed on the screen.
The conclusion I drew was that Xavier and Magneto were both extremists. Magneto was tyrannical and motivated by fear and hatred. Xavier was naive and motivated by a savior complex.
It's summed up perfectly by Magneto in Days of Futures past. "We were young. We didn't know any better". It was when they joined forces and helped cancel out each other's flaws that they were able to save the mutants, without become monsters themselves. Balance was always the key. And it makes for a great story. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix on the other hand; hot garbage that did nothing for the story or character development. I just erased those from my memory.
The comics probably took it in a completely different angle that I'm not familiar with, of course.
Xavier protected humans from Magneto while Magneto tried to protect mutants from humans.
So, according to current comic writers:
Nazism: 😡
Nazism but with dyed hair and a mental illness haircut: 😍
Awesome work guys
I've always felt that Magneto is right (It's only a matter of time before the humans move against us, therefore we should strike first) but Xavier formed the X-Men to prove him wrong.
I think it's a chicken or egg situation. Perhaps, humanity would have moved against mutantkind, but Magneto and other villains didn't help. In fact, they probably turned the greater majority of humans against mutants, even if they were sympathetic or apathetic beforehand.
For me, aside from people using it as a meme. The ones saying Magneto was right, are people from marginalized communities who, like Magneto, has given humanity many chances to prove them wrong.
And yet every single time we've been shown that people will keep going back to bigotry and hatred towards that which they don't understand.
MLK was murdered before he ever got the see his dream realized.
There have been multiple genocides just in the last few decades.
No his methods aren't right, but the thought that humanity will never change is something a lot of people have come to think. And honestly you can't fault them for that.
This video is more important now considering the most recent episode of X-Men
Mags is never right......except every society that gains power and succeeded has done the same thing.
Stop thinking like children.
I’m so glad someone understands this
Bob Chipman: I know who I would side with. Just sayin.
-Bob Moviebobo Chipman esposing Magneto was right for a joke
Now Bob is just a tragedy because it's clear, the man never mentally left high school.
I don't know what happened to him, but it's clear that it stunted his growth as a person.
Magneto was wrong and is pure garbage honestly main reason I can’t stand the X-men
Once you kill innocent people I'm not on your side anymore. Killing your kid because you don't agree with a choice they made is insane.
The X-Men should despise everything what Magneto stands for.
@@EvandroACruz exactly
They do. At least the classic version of the X men did.
@@EvandroACruz that’s why I loved a.x.e. For what Kronos punching a whole in his chest was one of my favorite comic moments. But in the end even that event was stupid nothing mattered at all no repercussions for anything.
To me the best Magneto is when he acknowledges that Xavier was right and he tries to live up to Chuck's example. Age of Apocalypse is probably my favorite version of Magneto for this reason. I think Magneto is at his most interesting when he's a villain looking for redemption. But I'm a sucker for redemptive stories.
In the Days Of Future Past story, Magneto had turned good and became the leader of the last surviving members of the X-Men after the Sentinels had killed Professor X and most of the other members of the X-Men. That was the first time I had ever seen Magneto want to atone for his past crimes and help the surviving superhuman mutants and also even help the surviving superhumans, and humans, too. He realized the error of his ways after the Master Mold and the Sentinels had exterminated approximately 98% of all mutants on the Planet Earth, and vowed to avenge the destruction of the entire world at the hands of those evil giant humanoid robot warriors.
He even had gotten crippled in battle, just like Professor Charles Xavier did, and was bound to a high-tech hoverchair similar to the one that Xavier had used in the 1990s. He was the one who had saved Wolverine, Shadowcat, Colossus, Storm, Rachel Summers and Franklin Richards from the New York City mutant detention camp, and then organized their secret mission for them to try to alter history and change reality for the better. I liked Magneto's older, future self from that alternate future timeline. I thought that he was actually a pretty cool character.
Magneto is one of the greatest and most powerful villian/anti-hero of all time in the Marve comics. He is one of my favorite and complex characters in this series. And with that said, Magneto was never right, ever. He became the very thing(s) he hated and this becomes lost on so many fans for whatever reason. But the Magneto that was constructively criticized in this video is now dead. He has been resurrected and unlike past incarnations, Magneto appears to actually and critically be considering how his actions, down to the smallest decision, affect both mutants and humans alike. So we'll see how the latest incarnation of Magnus plays out. Hopefully he will finally find peace.
Lore of The Real Reasons Magneto Was Never Right momentum 100
Magneto was wrong but Cyclops was right.
"When you kill children because your angry at them. You cant be right anymore"
Meanwhile, Batman slits his sons throat/carotid and DC bends over backwards to exuse and memory hole it
He never slit Jason neck. That was your shoulder. He needed to stop him to murder the Joker.
@EvandroACruz no, i have eyes, thats the neck. And blood only really fountians like that when its an arterys. And why he immediately collapses from blood loss, given you bleed out very quickly from a arterys slice. And more than that, Jason take two batarangs to the shoulders duing the rooftop fight, he didnt go down then. So why does the third batarang take him out, cause it was the neck, not the shoulder. Thats why DC wont ever acknowledge it, cause Bruce pretty much tried to kill his kid to save said kids murder.
@@EvandroACruz It was at his throat because of how much he is bleeding and probably caught a part of his shoulder
"Ideology, that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Random question: are there some good YA graphic novels?
Thank you for your times and replies
Thank you that is what I am talking about!🎉
You guys hit it on the head. X-men definitely list their way on the most simplest, but most important of ways.
*lost
@@indiajohnson *shut up
Idk where thanos was right came from but I do know cyclops was right. I have those comics and the shirt. Magneto was right was just Quentin trolling.
Victor Von Doom was right to rule the world. Just tell that to Richards
Excellent observations guys. Do wonder how all the creative types all became to share the similar views in comics?
Magneto is the only true nazi in the Marvel Universe.
The Red Skull (Johann Schmidt) is literally the last of the original Nazi Germans. Magneto just acts like the mutant supremacist equivalent of them. He is the closest approximation to a mutant version of Adolph Hitler who is fanatically anti-human and fanatically pro-mutant. He even considers superhumans like Spider-Man to be only worthy of being servants to mutants but never their equal. He only sees them as superior to normal people who don't have powers, but not superior like how mutants are in the grand scheme of things. The irony is that he hates actual Nazis with a fiery vengeance.
Thanks for digging into the Magneto psychology, Dok! Great job!
Hey, i know its not related to the topic but does Tom King has any good comic runs?
Not really… Dude clearly has issues he needs worked out
Cyclops was right
The humans murder his bloodline aswell as his daughter when he try to live a normal life with his wive and child. The human constantly torturing,murdering experimenting on mutant. Let not forget the sentinel locating mutant in the home to capture for experiments 🧪.
Trying to think of a time where Magento was doing anything "evil" unprovoked.😢
@@kingofnonation5843This is literally the justification Israel is using to genocide the Palestinians and all the Lefty fans of "Magneto was Right" CHOOSE not to see it.
"I mean... They attacked US! What are we supposed to do? Just take it? No... We can indiscriminately kill and oppress because it happened to us too often in the past. NEVER AGAIN."
It's not subtext, it's just text but the Che Cosplayers on the Left choose to be blind.
@@miguelvelez7221Because those two situations are different and aren't analogous.
It’s reasons like this why dc style crisis are needed in marvel but obviously nowhere near the quantity