I feel like Older Scott acting the way he does makes more sense when you consider that Older Ramona isn't the one we've been following that learned about not running away from her problems. Like Scott knows that she's the kind of person to just leave her partner for seemingly no reason, so him thinking that her needing some space is her doing what she did to her Exes makes sense, at least imo. I also believe that the show subtly tries to show that Older Ramona also ended up worse off after Scott left, and that she was partly to blame for everything because she never reached out to him the entire time after they "divorced", not for a whole 10 years until she learned that he went back in time to change the past. Of course, I do wish they showed more of their relationship... seeing what happened to them would always be nice, but I think Mr. O'Malley wanted to keep the allure of the open ending the comic and movie had intact and this is just a victim of it. Good video though!
I did think of her being partly to blame. Scott's reaction still feels kind of rash to me though. Evidently he hadn't made the slightest effort to contact her, which I just find unbelievable. Maybe this was a pattern for her, but if they'd been married so long, it seems like he would have at least tried a different tactic once in the ten years he was holding a grudge. Maybe if they'd changed it up a bit and older Scott was a bit younger, they could have had it where his Ramona left him almost immediately after he defeated the exes, which would have been a lot more believable for her character, and it would have made a lot more sense that he was so mad, and thought that was the end and didn't try to contact her. As for Ramona, her being partly to blame makes sense and adds nuance, which is cool, but it makes her seem kind of rash as well for the way she attacked Scott about it. She seemed offended that he hadn't contacted her, but if she knew it was partly her fault, wouldn't she feel bad about that and start off by apologizing? Instead she just seems to blame the whole thing on him. I don't know, whichever way you spin it, it doesn't make much sense to me, but it's not so bad that it ruins the effect of the whole show. It would be fun to get a second season. Thanks so much and thanks for commenting lol :)
Me personally, i think when the Timeline reset, Older Ramona reached out to Scott and they reconnected at the very least, Even Older Scott was prevented, so i believe they got their happy ending as well
Amazes me people complain about it not following sources I’m a major fan on the books and movie and loved that the show took a whole new angle Romona having to fix her broken relationships and apologies for being a shitty partner was adorable
Yeah their whole relationship was a lot more endearing, and it gives us an interesting contrast to look at and analyze. Im a nerd lol. Thanks for your comment!
I honestly feel like the fact that future Scott and Ramona's conflict didn't have to happen and was kind of over nothing was the point of it. It showed that Scott and Ramona still had issues and if they had taken the time to communicate they could have avoided the whole thing. You're still entitled to your own opinion though, not arguing just giving my own perspective, and great video!
Yeah, the communication was definitely the problem with them, I guess my main issue comes from how it kind of diffused the tension to know how easy it would have been to fix the problem. Like the miscommunication trope in a romance. Thanks so much for your comment! Haha and the clarification 👍
This is the greatest take ever. Everyone is always full left or full right. Never stopping to understand that you're allowed, heck even encouraged to take the middle stance and understand the strengths and weaknesses of both sides.
I stopped watching after the third episode since i felt juped with the second episode and the marketing for the show. But after watching the entire thing i was pleasantly surprised
Honestly, my concern with media like this is more about whether or not it's good writing than what political message it has. I always get crazy annoyed when people let their politics inform their opinions about stories. Something can be the worst movie I've ever seen and everybody will seem to like it because it has LGBTQ representation. Let's raise our standards, guys. Yes, it's good that it exists at all, and we should support the people who wrote it, but ultimately, we need good writing to be understood, empathized with, and respected by the rest of society. Otherwise no one who doesn't agree with us will like it. Anyways lol
Everyone always thinks of the left or right… but they never talk about the LEFT RIGHT GOODNIGHT! That being said, I agree, but also I’m not touching politics with Sun Wukongs Staff even at its longest length, that’s a spider web of toxicity and corruption i dont want to get involved with
@@brainless_mastermindAgreed 100%, we need to promote good and well written media, and very fun ones as well, not media that is badly written regardless of what topics it has in it Luckily, I think we’re on the right track, atleast with the end of the year coming out with many amazing shows, cartoons and anime that are well written, but that doesnt mean we should slack off. Keep recommending good and well written (and fun) media. sorry for the long rant lol
Honestly I think the only issue with this show is that it would have greatly benefited for an extra episode or two to focus on the twins and maybe give us some information about the 13 years between Scott taking down all of the exes and his and Ramona’s relationship falling apart but given Netflix’s habit of canceling shows I’d rather have an imperfect story that’s really good than a perfect story that never got finished
I think what could have fixed Old Scott was giving Old Ramona a more antagonistic (I don't mean villanous) role, like this for example: She began to be afraid about being in a relationship with him given her experience with her 7 exes, so she distanced herself from him out of the blue without even talking about it, only to realize that her choice changed Scott for the worse. Blaming herself for making him miserable, she would also try to prevent her past self from ever dating Scott, hoping that he would have a happier life. The final battle should have been the young Scott and Ramona fighting their older counterparts and showing them that they can be happy together if they just open up to each other. Yeah that's my fanfic 😅
I do really like that it all happened because of a small rough patch. I do feel like its a good way to show that scott still needs to better himself even after getting ramona
That's a good point. Old Scott's stuff was kind of the only character arc we got for Scott in the show, so maybe there was another reason behind it. Thanks for your comment!
In a way I get why they didnt showcase more of the show in the promotion material, people would either think its a Remake or a Reboot and ends up being neither of both, the Twist about being a secret sequel with all the time travel caught me offguard and made me enjoy it even more!
No it's not a sequel the original creator already confirmed it but if it was a sequel to the original comics I have to ask you is seeing Scott still being a pathetic loser even after all the growth he had in the comics a good thing because I all see is a term call character assassination
That's true, it would have been kind of difficult to describe to people what this show even was, but I don't think it would have been too hard to say something about how it was going to be more Ramona centered just so we expected something more like what we were getting into. I will say though, the moment Scott lost the fight with Matthew was definitely a hard hitting moment because I didn't expect it, and it really hooked me
From what one of the creators of the show said, they said that old Scott and Ramona were from a timeline where they didn’t have proper character arcs, only having Scott beat the evil exes and not even having a reaction(and you know it’s a bad timeline when the movie canonically has more character development). I do hope that they do have a more faithful show for the comics, but this show did not disappoint.
Yeah, it would be cool to get everything from the comics in animation. That's interesting, I didn't do a ton of research into what the creators were saying about it. Thanks for your comment!
I see this show as a spiritual sequel to a movie(not an actual one, because even even before split it has little different scenes like new pick-up line at the julie party or crash and the boys fell apart). With this head cannon I can totally see older(and even older) Scott being manchild and never grow up. Like Scott Pilgrim vs the World take place in around 2 weeks timeline. And there is not a lot of growth for Ramona in the movie. I can totally see that they can return to their old habits to be bad versions of themselves
Thank u for this video, reminded me of a quote from Elena Ferrante where she said something along the lines of “there’s nothing less feminist than perfect female characters”
I couldn't agree more with this, the ending was a little random and basic, but overall the way ramona kind of learns to confront her past exs instead of letting Scott just kill all of them was something new to the series itself, its not really a full recreation of the original comics, its more of like a chaos theory type situation, a "what if this happened" type scenario on the original comics, because its not fun to experience the same story again if you know what will happen. Im certainly new to scott pilgrim also but i've watched the movie and seen some of the comics now, so I honestly understand why people are quite mad.
Thank you! Yeah I thought it was kind of cool that we got to see such a different timeline, it was a really fun concept to come at it from "what if Scott lost" and go from there. I think I do prefer the movie a little bit, but the show was not bad by any means, it had some great things going for it
i think (personally) this show is meant to be supplementary material to the overall canon, more of like a soft character reboot rather than a standalone. you’re meant to take the characters as they’ve been portrayed in other mediums (particularly the movie since this show has so many references to it) and kind of take it as a “i’m unhappy with the reputation this has so i’m repackaging it” situation from bryan. idk if that’s just a off topic interpretation though! i did think the stuff with old scott was kinda weak too, but knowing that he (in the comics) does work toward self-improvement and growth kind of placated that need for a full arc from him here. i also really love your point about ramona, she’s one of my fave characters and she’s depicted so well here by showing she’s willing to be emotionally vulnerable with her exes instead of running away like she did in the past. great video!!! ❤
An alternative title for the "when feminism actually works" time mark could also be "how to write feminism", mainly because the true enemy at the end of the day, is actually just bad writing and not quite the message you're trying to push. A good example of this is definitely Marvel as you already mentioned. So truly the key to writing female characters(or any character) is to write them to be human, and not as some all powerful beings or tools as you've also said. (I hope I don't come off as anything for this, because It's not my intention) I'm personally a big fan of this show and love it to bits, it even got me reading the original comics. I could agree with some peoples complaints about the marketing and the bait and switch, but personally I was fine with it(though I do sympathize with wanting a rehash of the movie or comics in animated form). It really did something different that I really loved and enjoyed(especially on multiple watches). I'm very surprised how I grew to love the exes, Lucas and Gideon's(Gordon) bromance is major friend goals honestly. I could agree with people when it comes to Gideon(especially with all the messed up shit he's done in both the movie and comic), but at least it's kinda nice to he's moved on from Ramona and started being evil elsewhere. Also him and Julie are a surprising evil power couple, and I'm all for it. But anywho, that all said, great video and review, it's nice to see channels like yours that aren't from the same echo chambers(particularly the ones screaming "woke" about almost everything in my personal opinion) either blindly loving or hating any piece of media under the sun. It's breathe of fresh air and sigh of relief to see honestly. Also sorry for the paragraph of a comment, did not expect to write this much, lol.
You got a new sub from me. I’m a political centrist and even though I loathe the over-woke leftism, I also appreciate content creators such as yourself that don’t get pulled in by the right-wing echo chamber that blindly hates on everything the conservative thought leaders deem “too woke” (ie. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off) But I do take issue with a statement that Ramona is “the representation all marginalized groups need”. Women are not marginalized, not by the least. We are literally 50% of the population. Even if speaking strictly of popular culture. For fuck’s sake, the highest grossing movie of last year was BARBIE. I don’t need Sherlock Holmes, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Naruto, Batman, Marty McFly or James Bond to be feminized for me to enjoy them. Their genitalia has never been an issue for me. Nor has Xena’s, Buffy’s, Ripley’s, Eleven’s, Lorelai Gilmore’s, Sarah Connor’s or Rapunzel’s crotch contents made me enamored because of WaHmeN soLidaRiTy. I enjoy good characters and obviously they face sex-specific issues (motherhood vs. being drafted into the military, etc.), but I don’t want all of my (female) characters or creators be gender-obsessed with this ridiculous narrative that “woe us wahmen, we are so oppressed”. Like we lived in fucking Afghanistan. Let characters be characters and use their sexes in a nuanced way - not as an all-encompassing personality trait. 🤦🏻♀️ I don’t want a single more female character to be celebrated mainly for being female. They should be celebrated because they are well-written and that should be the ONLY lesson Hollywood needs to take.
All good points, thanks so much for the support!! It means so much. In regards to the marginalized thing, I see it as less about the amount of us in the population than just the way we're treated. Of course we're not a minority, but I think that to say we're not marginalized at all (or in other words, treated as insignificant or inferior) isn't completely true. We're still dealing with wage gap issues, and just general stigma around the things we do and the things we enjoy, and double standards and whatnot. And yes, we have it really good and lots of women are very privileged, but that doesn't mean no woman in the US is marginalized ever. I'm also not saying men don't deal with some of the same issues. Just some food for thought, I enjoyed reading your arguments!
Oh boy. Just because women are not a minority, does not mean they aren’t marginalized. They had to fight for their rights for a reason. To say that they aren’t marginalized is a naive statement to make. It’s great that the sex of a character doesn’t change your treatment or view of them, but there is a nuance here of a character can be in a well written novel or media and still be written through a sexist lens. Obviously women shouldn’t be shoved into media just to be girlbosses and for diversity points. But good representation matters. Women have been written in a very limited role for the longest time. I do theatre and there is this dilemma where most of the actors are women but there are always more male roles. Women’s roles in classical theatre productions are always limited to mother/wife. You don’t care about the gender because it doesn’t matter to you. Men in media, especially as main characters have always been praised for being men. And in history as well, sons were considered to be better and have better prospects just because they are men. So please educate yourself on the treatment of women in literature and in real life.
I stand by the fact that I only did not like the show initially (will see upon rewatch), because I was bamboozled by Netflix. If they had told me this is going to be different from the beginning and it's a new story, I would likely enjoy this very much - I mean, the movie really does not get into Ramona outside of some little flashbacks that much and I would look forward to see that on screen. Like this I was just mad after months of looking forward to faithful adaptation I was getting something so drastically different. Flashing out Ramona as more than a tool in Scott's storyline was actually the best part, so shame it had to fall flat for me just due to the bad marketing.
Yeah, maybe Netflix just wanted the shock value of Scott losing, but to be honest, they could still have had that if they had been vague about how the story would go. They could have told us it was more Ramona centered without telling us Scott was going to actually lose
@@brainless_mastermind Exactly. I feel like anything even subtly implying this will be something else would work. Give it a "what if?" name. Or at the end of the trailer it would say something like "but what if it all went a bit differently?" Basically anything. But oh well, what's done is done
I feel like this video just ends right as it’s getting good. I mean I guess if you h said all you had to say about Scott pilgrim that makes sense, but I wouldn’t mind a longer essay from you about female and feminist depiction in media
Hey I'm late to the party but like technically Ramona being the protag isn't even new, you can only get the true ending in the Scott Pilgrim video game if you play as her, whereas if you play as Scott he ends up learning nothing and has a joyless fourway relationship with Envy, Kim and Knives
0:40 it's not because of that, it's because it needs to be about Scott Pilgrim, not about any other character in the show, I'm sure these people would react the same if one of the exes was the main character.
As someone who loved the comics and movie for years this change was welcomed cause we’ve already seen this story twice already and both time Ramona didn’t have too much development. Making her the main character is a great choice considering how much more care she has than her counterparts. Also if this was a “feminist retelling” would future Ramona really have gone back in time to give them the book about thier lives in order to save her love with Scott, I don’t think so
a major issue with a lot of hollywood "representation" and "feminism" is that its not real feminism or representation, when you make a characters entire personality that they are [insert marginalized group] or a strong woman or something is that isnt really representation, its either bad writing or tolkenization for smaller groups, in half heartedly attempting to be an ally, many shows contribute to stereotyping and general negative attitudes towards diversity in media, im trans and love seeing trans representation, but its insulting, both as a transgender person, and a woman, to see us boiled down to mere trophies of fake progressivism.
Scott Pilgrim Takes Off is the kind of show where after my first watch I think “yeah that was some solid dumb fun” but then like two days of thinking about it later I’m like “wait, this was actually pretty smart and I think it’s my new favorite show this year.” It’s one of those shows like FLCL or Murder Drones where the fast pacing buries the smart writing under a blaze of flashy fun. I wasn’t given enough time to really figure out Scott’s character arc and the conclusion to Ramona’s arc during the show itself, but the pieces were all there for me to understand it in retrospect. Future Ramona is so awful at communicating her expectations that she allowed Old Scott to think that it was over. Scott may not have reached out for those ten years of training, but neither did Ramona. Ramona missed Scott, but she was so fixated on the pain of taking the first step towards recovery that she couldn’t consider the much greater pain of allowing the issue to fester. In fact, living in the moment is exactly what made all of Ramona’s breakups so messy. She couldn’t bear to cross those bridges one last time, so she let them burn. In that way, Ramona choosing Future Ramona wasn’t Ramona choosing herself, it was Ramona choosing to care about her future, and Future Ramona choosing to reflect on her past, that allowed them to fuse into Super Ramona.
That's a good thought. I hadn't considered Ramona's arc being learning to consider the future, but it makes sense. I still would've liked to see some more details on their rough patch, because the way Ramona framed it, it feels like Scott overreacted, and even though it was partly Ramona's fault, she didn't apologize, she only seemed angry at Scott. Maybe if she had started off with an apology and phrased it differently, I wouldn't have felt so weird about it. Thanks so much for your comment! Happy holidays!
@@brainless_mastermind Definitely a valid criticism, I think they were trying to hammer in Old Scott’s mistakes in the last two episodes so that Young Scott would get to have at least a little bit of an arc, and ended up fumbling the conclusion to Ramona’s arc in the process. Ideally I think episode 8 should have been two episodes so that they had more screen time to explore the alternate timeline.
I'm an Anarcho-Communist, yet I can agree that Mainstream Feminism is shit. Oftentimes, representation when it comes to POC queer woman and disabled woman is scarce and often overshadowed by mainstream white feminism. This also includes fat women or gnc (gender non-conforming) woman as well since most mainstream examples of women representation are skinny. We need representation for all women, not just some women!
Maybe it's late to ask for advice but I can't understand what's special about the show, genuinely. I heard the premise and the idea it gave me was that it's a bit childish? I don't know, I'd like to see it because people seemed to talk about it well but I feel like it's not for me. Great video anyway
the only thing that ruined this show for me was that it was advertised wrong. i think they should have been a little more direct in telling us before we started watching that it wasnt an adaptation but a requel, as it makes the comics canonically the originals events, but creates a new timeline altered by comic book scotts actions. the main issue this really distracted me from enjoying the show was that my hopes of seeing characters i enjoyed so much in the comic get screen time was thrown out the window as non of those characters showed up at all. with characters being completely replaced out as well. a lot of the scenes i looked forward to seeing animated just wont exist because of how season one changes the timeline. its good i just wish the only warning we got wasnt only on omalleys Instagram, that the show was not what we were expecting. also gorden goose stuff trying to make gideon seem like a human and the complete ignoring of his exs that he keeps on cold storage, like how come matthew petal didnt do anything around that. who knows we gotta wait for another season to find out more now. whatEVER!
Yeah, that's so valid. It was definitely a weird thing to risk the fans disappointment just for shock value. Faithful adaptations are always hard as well though, and sometimes it's just between one kind of disappointment and another. I think they did reasonably well with what they were going for though, and that's the main thing that matters to me. Thank you so much for your comment!
I like the show gave Ramona’s Exes redemption and a chance to get closure and grow, including Ramona and also Even Older Scott was worth there being so few fights, the reference to both Ryu and Akuma were too cool for me even when I’ve only seen clips, sure his reasons weren’t great but i still find him a menacing villain regardless
Yeah I do think the show could have gained from one more episode of Future Scott and Future Ramona going through their breakup but I think they prefered the funny aspect of learning at the very last time that both future scott and Ramona are still asshole who can't communicate. But the show was so good I'm fine with the ending.
That's true, there was definitely a shock comedy aspect to it. I feel like they sort of sacrificed a bit of believability for it though, which I would have tried to avoid doing, but I can see the reasoning.
Scott was never smart enough to become the leader of the EXs, he is his own worst enemy. Ramona has issues too, it wasn't a failure on just Scott's part. It was both of theirs. All that drama was for nothing, because neither of them could get over their flaws, all they can do give themselves a second chance to change.
Right, Ramona definitely had issues too, but I still feel like seeing their future relationship problems more would have made it a lot easier to understand their whole situation. As it is, it comes across as kind of silly to me that Scott would overreact so much and then Ramona would be angry at him for it and not sorry, even though it was her fault too. Thanks so much for your comment! Hope your holidays are great :)
@@brainless_mastermind of course Scott would over react in a silly way like that, like how he doesn't get a haircut for so long after his breakup with Envy. Ramona's deal is pushing people away so she did that and that attitude is bad if you want to be with someone who is going to overreact and go into monk mode at any sign of trouble. I think she did feel sorry for him, but neither of them know how to communicate their feelings well or really deal with them in a healthy way. This why Scott dates a high schooler and why Ramona has 7 evil Xs. I really like scoot pilgrim because it seems like it is written in a way that would happen, not the way you want it to happen.
I'm sorry, but if your gonna call an Adaptation for a Modern Audience what Feminism should look like, I suggest you leave the internet and don't come back until you learn about Elizabeth the First of England.
My BIGGEST issue with this show is that it's LITERALLY the WORST way to heal after divorce. Yeah, this show is the ultimate self-insert for the author who screwed up with his wife. I would know, I WAS TOO. The whole thing of turning Scott into a manchild only to have him beat on himself is a TOXIC approach to one's growth. If Scott was removed but also we followed him on his OWN self improving adventure ALONGSIDE the others it wouldn't feel like like such a bait and switch, which was a complaint even Michael Cera had for Scott. I would have LOVED to see Scott go on another video game inspired adventure. ( I needed to improve myself after my marriage went south. A failed marriage is NEVER one sided) The whole premise to make his wife the one who didn't screw up was a cowardly move. If he actually was a more self-respecting man, he'd give Ramona actual character flaws and have her improve herself to prevent that possible reality, instead of just fixing things with her exes. But no, the dude is a total beta and made Ramona the lead character in a show with Scott's name in the title. It's deceitful to put it ultimately lightly.
I feel like Older Scott acting the way he does makes more sense when you consider that Older Ramona isn't the one we've been following that learned about not running away from her problems. Like Scott knows that she's the kind of person to just leave her partner for seemingly no reason, so him thinking that her needing some space is her doing what she did to her Exes makes sense, at least imo. I also believe that the show subtly tries to show that Older Ramona also ended up worse off after Scott left, and that she was partly to blame for everything because she never reached out to him the entire time after they "divorced", not for a whole 10 years until she learned that he went back in time to change the past.
Of course, I do wish they showed more of their relationship... seeing what happened to them would always be nice, but I think Mr. O'Malley wanted to keep the allure of the open ending the comic and movie had intact and this is just a victim of it.
Good video though!
I did think of her being partly to blame. Scott's reaction still feels kind of rash to me though. Evidently he hadn't made the slightest effort to contact her, which I just find unbelievable. Maybe this was a pattern for her, but if they'd been married so long, it seems like he would have at least tried a different tactic once in the ten years he was holding a grudge. Maybe if they'd changed it up a bit and older Scott was a bit younger, they could have had it where his Ramona left him almost immediately after he defeated the exes, which would have been a lot more believable for her character, and it would have made a lot more sense that he was so mad, and thought that was the end and didn't try to contact her. As for Ramona, her being partly to blame makes sense and adds nuance, which is cool, but it makes her seem kind of rash as well for the way she attacked Scott about it. She seemed offended that he hadn't contacted her, but if she knew it was partly her fault, wouldn't she feel bad about that and start off by apologizing? Instead she just seems to blame the whole thing on him. I don't know, whichever way you spin it, it doesn't make much sense to me, but it's not so bad that it ruins the effect of the whole show. It would be fun to get a second season. Thanks so much and thanks for commenting lol :)
Me personally, i think when the Timeline reset, Older Ramona reached out to Scott and they reconnected
at the very least, Even Older Scott was prevented, so i believe they got their happy ending as well
Amazes me people complain about it not following sources I’m a major fan on the books and movie and loved that the show took a whole new angle
Romona having to fix her broken relationships and apologies for being a shitty partner was adorable
Yeah their whole relationship was a lot more endearing, and it gives us an interesting contrast to look at and analyze. Im a nerd lol. Thanks for your comment!
Ramona fixing her past mistakes herself actually makes Ramona a much stronger and empathetic character than she was previously
I honestly feel like the fact that future Scott and Ramona's conflict didn't have to happen and was kind of over nothing was the point of it. It showed that Scott and Ramona still had issues and if they had taken the time to communicate they could have avoided the whole thing. You're still entitled to your own opinion though, not arguing just giving my own perspective, and great video!
Yeah, the communication was definitely the problem with them, I guess my main issue comes from how it kind of diffused the tension to know how easy it would have been to fix the problem. Like the miscommunication trope in a romance. Thanks so much for your comment! Haha and the clarification 👍
This is the greatest take ever. Everyone is always full left or full right. Never stopping to understand that you're allowed, heck even encouraged to take the middle stance and understand the strengths and weaknesses of both sides.
I stopped watching after the third episode since i felt juped with the second episode and the marketing for the show. But after watching the entire thing i was pleasantly surprised
Honestly, my concern with media like this is more about whether or not it's good writing than what political message it has. I always get crazy annoyed when people let their politics inform their opinions about stories. Something can be the worst movie I've ever seen and everybody will seem to like it because it has LGBTQ representation. Let's raise our standards, guys. Yes, it's good that it exists at all, and we should support the people who wrote it, but ultimately, we need good writing to be understood, empathized with, and respected by the rest of society. Otherwise no one who doesn't agree with us will like it. Anyways lol
Everyone always thinks of the left or right… but they never talk about the LEFT RIGHT GOODNIGHT!
That being said, I agree, but also I’m not touching politics with Sun Wukongs Staff even at its longest length, that’s a spider web of toxicity and corruption i dont want to get involved with
@@brainless_mastermindAgreed 100%, we need to promote good and well written media, and very fun ones as well, not media that is badly written regardless of what topics it has in it
Luckily, I think we’re on the right track, atleast with the end of the year coming out with many amazing shows, cartoons and anime that are well written, but that doesnt mean we should slack off. Keep recommending good and well written (and fun) media.
sorry for the long rant lol
The enlightened centrist has entered the chat.
Honestly I think the only issue with this show is that it would have greatly benefited for an extra episode or two to focus on the twins and maybe give us some information about the 13 years between Scott taking down all of the exes and his and Ramona’s relationship falling apart but given Netflix’s habit of canceling shows I’d rather have an imperfect story that’s really good than a perfect story that never got finished
That's a good point, it would be sad to see it cancelled too soon
I think what could have fixed Old Scott was giving Old Ramona a more antagonistic (I don't mean villanous) role, like this for example:
She began to be afraid about being in a relationship with him given her experience with her 7 exes, so she distanced herself from him out of the blue without even talking about it, only to realize that her choice changed Scott for the worse. Blaming herself for making him miserable, she would also try to prevent her past self from ever dating Scott, hoping that he would have a happier life. The final battle should have been the young Scott and Ramona fighting their older counterparts and showing them that they can be happy together if they just open up to each other.
Yeah that's my fanfic 😅
Oooh yeah and that would flesh out Ramona's arc a little clearer too
I do really like that it all happened because of a small rough patch. I do feel like its a good way to show that scott still needs to better himself even after getting ramona
That's a good point. Old Scott's stuff was kind of the only character arc we got for Scott in the show, so maybe there was another reason behind it. Thanks for your comment!
In a way I get why they didnt showcase more of the show in the promotion material, people would either think its a Remake or a Reboot and ends up being neither of both, the Twist about being a secret sequel with all the time travel caught me offguard and made me enjoy it even more!
No it's not a sequel the original creator already confirmed it but if it was a sequel to the original comics I have to ask you is seeing Scott still being a pathetic loser even after all the growth he had in the comics a good thing because I all see is a term call character assassination
Yeah, I didnt read the comics and I tought it was great, had a lot of fun, for me this is a direct sequel to the movie. :)
@@jaydenlopez3636
That's true, it would have been kind of difficult to describe to people what this show even was, but I don't think it would have been too hard to say something about how it was going to be more Ramona centered just so we expected something more like what we were getting into. I will say though, the moment Scott lost the fight with Matthew was definitely a hard hitting moment because I didn't expect it, and it really hooked me
From what one of the creators of the show said, they said that old Scott and Ramona were from a timeline where they didn’t have proper character arcs, only having Scott beat the evil exes and not even having a reaction(and you know it’s a bad timeline when the movie canonically has more character development). I do hope that they do have a more faithful show for the comics, but this show did not disappoint.
Yeah, it would be cool to get everything from the comics in animation. That's interesting, I didn't do a ton of research into what the creators were saying about it. Thanks for your comment!
Presumably Older Scott is what would’ve happened if Scott never came to terms with Nega Scott instead becoming him
what did we learn? we need to give the twins screentime
Them and their vegan robot lol
I see this show as a spiritual sequel to a movie(not an actual one, because even even before split it has little different scenes like new pick-up line at the julie party or crash and the boys fell apart). With this head cannon I can totally see older(and even older) Scott being manchild and never grow up. Like Scott Pilgrim vs the World take place in around 2 weeks timeline. And there is not a lot of growth for Ramona in the movie. I can totally see that they can return to their old habits to be bad versions of themselves
Yeah, tbh neither of them really learned their lesson in the movie, so it does make sense. Thanks for your comment! :)
Thank u for this video, reminded me of a quote from Elena Ferrante where she said something along the lines of “there’s nothing less feminist than perfect female characters”
I couldn't agree more with this, the ending was a little random and basic, but overall the way ramona kind of learns to confront her past exs instead of letting Scott just kill all of them was something new to the series itself, its not really a full recreation of the original comics, its more of like a chaos theory type situation, a "what if this happened" type scenario on the original comics, because its not fun to experience the same story again if you know what will happen. Im certainly new to scott pilgrim also but i've watched the movie and seen some of the comics now, so I honestly understand why people are quite mad.
Thank you! Yeah I thought it was kind of cool that we got to see such a different timeline, it was a really fun concept to come at it from "what if Scott lost" and go from there. I think I do prefer the movie a little bit, but the show was not bad by any means, it had some great things going for it
i think (personally) this show is meant to be supplementary material to the overall canon, more of like a soft character reboot rather than a standalone. you’re meant to take the characters as they’ve been portrayed in other mediums (particularly the movie since this show has so many references to it) and kind of take it as a “i’m unhappy with the reputation this has so i’m repackaging it” situation from bryan. idk if that’s just a off topic interpretation though! i did think the stuff with old scott was kinda weak too, but knowing that he (in the comics) does work toward self-improvement and growth kind of placated that need for a full arc from him here. i also really love your point about ramona, she’s one of my fave characters and she’s depicted so well here by showing she’s willing to be emotionally vulnerable with her exes instead of running away like she did in the past. great video!!! ❤
Holy shit this is of way higher quality than your sub count would suggest. Keep up the good work! Vravo bince
That is very kind of you. Just waitin on that algorithm you know how it is lol
An alternative title for the "when feminism actually works" time mark could also be "how to write feminism", mainly because the true enemy at the end of the day, is actually just bad writing and not quite the message you're trying to push.
A good example of this is definitely Marvel as you already mentioned.
So truly the key to writing female characters(or any character) is to write them to be human, and not as some all powerful beings or tools as you've also said.
(I hope I don't come off as anything for this, because It's not my intention)
I'm personally a big fan of this show and love it to bits, it even got me reading the original comics. I could agree with some peoples complaints about the marketing and the bait and switch, but personally I was fine with it(though I do sympathize with wanting a rehash of the movie or comics in animated form). It really did something different that I really loved and enjoyed(especially on multiple watches).
I'm very surprised how I grew to love the exes, Lucas and Gideon's(Gordon) bromance is major friend goals honestly. I could agree with people when it comes to Gideon(especially with all the messed up shit he's done in both the movie and comic), but at least it's kinda nice to he's moved on from Ramona and started being evil elsewhere. Also him and Julie are a surprising evil power couple, and I'm all for it.
But anywho, that all said, great video and review, it's nice to see channels like yours that aren't from the same echo chambers(particularly the ones screaming "woke" about almost everything in my personal opinion) either blindly loving or hating any piece of media under the sun. It's breathe of fresh air and sigh of relief to see honestly.
Also sorry for the paragraph of a comment, did not expect to write this much, lol.
You got a new sub from me. I’m a political centrist and even though I loathe the over-woke leftism, I also appreciate content creators such as yourself that don’t get pulled in by the right-wing echo chamber that blindly hates on everything the conservative thought leaders deem “too woke” (ie. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off)
But I do take issue with a statement that Ramona is “the representation all marginalized groups need”.
Women are not marginalized, not by the least. We are literally 50% of the population. Even if speaking strictly of popular culture. For fuck’s sake, the highest grossing movie of last year was BARBIE.
I don’t need Sherlock Holmes, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Naruto, Batman, Marty McFly or James Bond to be feminized for me to enjoy them. Their genitalia has never been an issue for me. Nor has Xena’s, Buffy’s, Ripley’s, Eleven’s, Lorelai Gilmore’s, Sarah Connor’s or Rapunzel’s crotch contents made me enamored because of WaHmeN soLidaRiTy.
I enjoy good characters and obviously they face sex-specific issues (motherhood vs. being drafted into the military, etc.), but I don’t want all of my (female) characters or creators be gender-obsessed with this ridiculous narrative that “woe us wahmen, we are so oppressed”.
Like we lived in fucking Afghanistan.
Let characters be characters and use their sexes in a nuanced way - not as an all-encompassing personality trait. 🤦🏻♀️
I don’t want a single more female character to be celebrated mainly for being female. They should be celebrated because they are well-written and that should be the ONLY lesson Hollywood needs to take.
All good points, thanks so much for the support!! It means so much. In regards to the marginalized thing, I see it as less about the amount of us in the population than just the way we're treated. Of course we're not a minority, but I think that to say we're not marginalized at all (or in other words, treated as insignificant or inferior) isn't completely true. We're still dealing with wage gap issues, and just general stigma around the things we do and the things we enjoy, and double standards and whatnot. And yes, we have it really good and lots of women are very privileged, but that doesn't mean no woman in the US is marginalized ever. I'm also not saying men don't deal with some of the same issues. Just some food for thought, I enjoyed reading your arguments!
Oh boy. Just because women are not a minority, does not mean they aren’t marginalized. They had to fight for their rights for a reason. To say that they aren’t marginalized is a naive statement to make. It’s great that the sex of a character doesn’t change your treatment or view of them, but there is a nuance here of a character can be in a well written novel or media and still be written through a sexist lens. Obviously women shouldn’t be shoved into media just to be girlbosses and for diversity points. But good representation matters. Women have been written in a very limited role for the longest time. I do theatre and there is this dilemma where most of the actors are women but there are always more male roles. Women’s roles in classical theatre productions are always limited to mother/wife. You don’t care about the gender because it doesn’t matter to you. Men in media, especially as main characters have always been praised for being men. And in history as well, sons were considered to be better and have better prospects just because they are men. So please educate yourself on the treatment of women in literature and in real life.
You aren’t dumb. It took me a cool minute to figure would who did it as well.
Loved the video. 👌🏽
Thank you so much! Haha I was hoping lol
Just found this channel. Really love your view on this series and look forward to everything you release moving forward.
Aw you're a pal! I've got some ideas, we'll see if they're any good haha.
I stand by the fact that I only did not like the show initially (will see upon rewatch), because I was bamboozled by Netflix. If they had told me this is going to be different from the beginning and it's a new story, I would likely enjoy this very much - I mean, the movie really does not get into Ramona outside of some little flashbacks that much and I would look forward to see that on screen. Like this I was just mad after months of looking forward to faithful adaptation I was getting something so drastically different.
Flashing out Ramona as more than a tool in Scott's storyline was actually the best part, so shame it had to fall flat for me just due to the bad marketing.
Yeah, maybe Netflix just wanted the shock value of Scott losing, but to be honest, they could still have had that if they had been vague about how the story would go. They could have told us it was more Ramona centered without telling us Scott was going to actually lose
@@brainless_mastermind Exactly. I feel like anything even subtly implying this will be something else would work. Give it a "what if?" name. Or at the end of the trailer it would say something like "but what if it all went a bit differently?" Basically anything. But oh well, what's done is done
The best take on this. Also, love the way you made this video, and i will be sticking around.
:D
Yay! Thank you so much lol. Can't wait
I feel like this video just ends right as it’s getting good. I mean I guess if you h said all you had to say about Scott pilgrim that makes sense, but I wouldn’t mind a longer essay from you about female and feminist depiction in media
banger video hell ya
No u 👀
Literally how are you not more popular
Hey I'm late to the party but like technically Ramona being the protag isn't even new, you can only get the true ending in the Scott Pilgrim video game if you play as her, whereas if you play as Scott he ends up learning nothing and has a joyless fourway relationship with Envy, Kim and Knives
WOW, this is great: good speech, good criticism, excellent jokes. ¿ How the F*ck do you not have more subscribers?
Probably cause I only got serious about 1.5 months ago 🤷♀️
Thanks so much also! Lol
thank you for the wallace love
0:40 it's not because of that, it's because it needs to be about Scott Pilgrim, not about any other character in the show, I'm sure these people would react the same if one of the exes was the main character.
intro, Utah. Press play. 😂
2:40
could not agree ANY more with that (Wallace is my favorite character‼️)
He's amazing
lmao my dad walked in when i watched scott pilgrim taking off his shirt that was crazy
Such a fitting name
As someone who loved the comics and movie for years this change was welcomed cause we’ve already seen this story twice already and both time Ramona didn’t have too much development. Making her the main character is a great choice considering how much more care she has than her counterparts. Also if this was a “feminist retelling” would future Ramona really have gone back in time to give them the book about thier lives in order to save her love with Scott, I don’t think so
You're right, they didn't shy away from the romantic aspect, that's a good point. Thanks for your comment!
a major issue with a lot of hollywood "representation" and "feminism" is that its not real feminism or representation, when you make a characters entire personality that they are [insert marginalized group] or a strong woman or something is that isnt really representation, its either bad writing or tolkenization for smaller groups, in half heartedly attempting to be an ally, many shows contribute to stereotyping and general negative attitudes towards diversity in media, im trans and love seeing trans representation, but its insulting, both as a transgender person, and a woman, to see us boiled down to mere trophies of fake progressivism.
Could not have said it better myself
Scott Pilgrim Takes Off is the kind of show where after my first watch I think “yeah that was some solid dumb fun” but then like two days of thinking about it later I’m like “wait, this was actually pretty smart and I think it’s my new favorite show this year.”
It’s one of those shows like FLCL or Murder Drones where the fast pacing buries the smart writing under a blaze of flashy fun. I wasn’t given enough time to really figure out Scott’s character arc and the conclusion to Ramona’s arc during the show itself, but the pieces were all there for me to understand it in retrospect.
Future Ramona is so awful at communicating her expectations that she allowed Old Scott to think that it was over. Scott may not have reached out for those ten years of training, but neither did Ramona. Ramona missed Scott, but she was so fixated on the pain of taking the first step towards recovery that she couldn’t consider the much greater pain of allowing the issue to fester.
In fact, living in the moment is exactly what made all of Ramona’s breakups so messy. She couldn’t bear to cross those bridges one last time, so she let them burn. In that way, Ramona choosing Future Ramona wasn’t Ramona choosing herself, it was Ramona choosing to care about her future, and Future Ramona choosing to reflect on her past, that allowed them to fuse into Super Ramona.
That's a good thought. I hadn't considered Ramona's arc being learning to consider the future, but it makes sense. I still would've liked to see some more details on their rough patch, because the way Ramona framed it, it feels like Scott overreacted, and even though it was partly Ramona's fault, she didn't apologize, she only seemed angry at Scott. Maybe if she had started off with an apology and phrased it differently, I wouldn't have felt so weird about it.
Thanks so much for your comment! Happy holidays!
@@brainless_mastermind Definitely a valid criticism, I think they were trying to hammer in Old Scott’s mistakes in the last two episodes so that Young Scott would get to have at least a little bit of an arc, and ended up fumbling the conclusion to Ramona’s arc in the process. Ideally I think episode 8 should have been two episodes so that they had more screen time to explore the alternate timeline.
@@embrefrosste6044 Yeah, that would probably have helped. It would be fun to see if they explored this stuff any more in a second season.
I'm an Anarcho-Communist, yet I can agree that Mainstream Feminism is shit. Oftentimes, representation when it comes to POC queer woman and disabled woman is scarce and often overshadowed by mainstream white feminism. This also includes fat women or gnc (gender non-conforming) woman as well since most mainstream examples of women representation are skinny. We need representation for all women, not just some women!
I loved this show. Purely because of wallace, and the other characters were great aswell
Loved these points. We women take up literally 50% of the world’s population. Why are we written as if we only take up 0.1%???
Maybe it's late to ask for advice but I can't understand what's special about the show, genuinely. I heard the premise and the idea it gave me was that it's a bit childish? I don't know, I'd like to see it because people seemed to talk about it well but I feel like it's not for me. Great video anyway
It might not be, it's got a vibe of it's own, and that's probably valid. Thanks for the comment!
@@brainless_mastermind Thank you too!
the only thing that ruined this show for me was that it was advertised wrong. i think they should have been a little more direct in telling us before we started watching that it wasnt an adaptation but a requel, as it makes the comics canonically the originals events, but creates a new timeline altered by comic book scotts actions. the main issue this really distracted me from enjoying the show was that my hopes of seeing characters i enjoyed so much in the comic get screen time was thrown out the window as non of those characters showed up at all. with characters being completely replaced out as well. a lot of the scenes i looked forward to seeing animated just wont exist because of how season one changes the timeline. its good i just wish the only warning we got wasnt only on omalleys Instagram, that the show was not what we were expecting.
also gorden goose stuff trying to make gideon seem like a human and the complete ignoring of his exs that he keeps on cold storage, like how come matthew petal didnt do anything around that. who knows we gotta wait for another season to find out more now. whatEVER!
Yeah, that's so valid. It was definitely a weird thing to risk the fans disappointment just for shock value. Faithful adaptations are always hard as well though, and sometimes it's just between one kind of disappointment and another. I think they did reasonably well with what they were going for though, and that's the main thing that matters to me. Thank you so much for your comment!
I think ending is a little rushed.
Netflix should unlocked their 8 episodes rule and make it 10 episodes so final arc would be better excused.
Yeah, it might have been better if we'd seen more of future Scott and Ramona's life
I like the show gave Ramona’s Exes redemption and a chance to get closure and grow, including Ramona
and also Even Older Scott was worth there being so few fights, the reference to both Ryu and Akuma were too cool for me even when I’ve only seen clips, sure his reasons weren’t great but i still find him a menacing villain regardless
Yeah it wasn't bad by any means
YIPPIE wake up pals BrainlessMastermind just dropped a new masterpiece
You're the masterpiece 🥵🥵
Yeah I do think the show could have gained from one more episode of Future Scott and Future Ramona going through their breakup but I think they prefered the funny aspect of learning at the very last time that both future scott and Ramona are still asshole who can't communicate. But the show was so good I'm fine with the ending.
That's true, there was definitely a shock comedy aspect to it. I feel like they sort of sacrificed a bit of believability for it though, which I would have tried to avoid doing, but I can see the reasoning.
The show is amazing
Yeah they did a surprisingly good job with it
Scott was never smart enough to become the leader of the EXs, he is his own worst enemy. Ramona has issues too, it wasn't a failure on just Scott's part. It was both of theirs. All that drama was for nothing, because neither of them could get over their flaws, all they can do give themselves a second chance to change.
Right, Ramona definitely had issues too, but I still feel like seeing their future relationship problems more would have made it a lot easier to understand their whole situation. As it is, it comes across as kind of silly to me that Scott would overreact so much and then Ramona would be angry at him for it and not sorry, even though it was her fault too. Thanks so much for your comment! Hope your holidays are great :)
@@brainless_mastermind of course Scott would over react in a silly way like that, like how he doesn't get a haircut for so long after his breakup with Envy. Ramona's deal is pushing people away so she did that and that attitude is bad if you want to be with someone who is going to overreact and go into monk mode at any sign of trouble. I think she did feel sorry for him, but neither of them know how to communicate their feelings well or really deal with them in a healthy way. This why Scott dates a high schooler and why Ramona has 7 evil Xs. I really like scoot pilgrim because it seems like it is written in a way that would happen, not the way you want it to happen.
Cool beans.
I'm sorry, but if your gonna call an Adaptation for a Modern Audience what Feminism should look like, I suggest you leave the internet and don't come back until you learn about Elizabeth the First of England.
My BIGGEST issue with this show is that it's LITERALLY the WORST way to heal after divorce. Yeah, this show is the ultimate self-insert for the author who screwed up with his wife. I would know, I WAS TOO. The whole thing of turning Scott into a manchild only to have him beat on himself is a TOXIC approach to one's growth. If Scott was removed but also we followed him on his OWN self improving adventure ALONGSIDE the others it wouldn't feel like like such a bait and switch, which was a complaint even Michael Cera had for Scott. I would have LOVED to see Scott go on another video game inspired adventure. ( I needed to improve myself after my marriage went south. A failed marriage is NEVER one sided) The whole premise to make his wife the one who didn't screw up was a cowardly move. If he actually was a more self-respecting man, he'd give Ramona actual character flaws and have her improve herself to prevent that possible reality, instead of just fixing things with her exes. But no, the dude is a total beta and made Ramona the lead character in a show with Scott's name in the title. It's deceitful to put it ultimately lightly.