ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- Welcome recruit! Today you will be undertaking advanced simulation combat training. Remember, anime rules apply. If you die in the sim, you die in real life! What's that? Why bother with the simulation then? Know your place soldier, drop and give me 100.
- เกม
I think my favorite bit of the Anchorage simulation is that you can read terminals in the Outcast bunker that claim the simulation is, in-universe, completely divorced from the reality of the battle. It's basically hanging a lampshade on the ridiculousness of the DLC and I love it.
Thanks for pointing this out, not sure I ever read that terminal entry before. Certainly does reframe the experience!
@@spydingo going with what QuasiStellarObject said, the team that was making the simulation were frustrated with General Chase because he was adding things to the assault that were completely detached from the events they were trying to emulate, including the existance of Vertibirds (which didnt exist at the time) and the 'one man army' scinario that chase was gunning for. Just some extra info for you Spy, cant wait for that analysis of the Chimera, and dont forget that the Drilling platform was specally modified to operate in the terrain of alaska so it might not be the scariest vehicle the chinese had, but it might have been a monster that could appear ANYWHERE, doubly so in places where americans had NO heavy vehicle support, and thats what terrified american troops.
To be fair, the terminal also says the writer never saw the official documents of the battle. Clearly, some of it must have happened, considering the Crimson Dragoons existed, and you can get the general's shock-sword.
@@Umbra_Ursus Yeah, we're all just really seeing General Chase's idealized version of events. The GI Joe version of WW2, if you will.
I believe the purpose of the simulation, and using the 'one man army' trope, was to train elite agents for the U.S. Government but General Chase was creating a self-gratifying story in the end.
Operation Archonage is a simulation, and it's created in a way that suggests the person creating it didn't have the foggiest idea of what real fighting looked like(this is suggested, for example, by a general committing seppuku, where it was a Japanese custom, not a Chinese one)
Bro, I had no idea that was a thing! That's what I get for never passing speech checks! Yeah, that bothers me quite a bit as well. I get the decision from the writers side though, it is cooler than using a gun and takes advantage of his fancy sword.
@@spydingo They mean the in-universe characters that built the simulation. There are notes that suggest that the simulation doesn't reflect the way the "real" operation anchorage happened.
@@spydingo If you read some of the terminal entries inside the bunker where the Outcasts are, there are even suggestions that General Chase is a bit mentally unstable, according to the scientists anyway. They suggest that the real battle for Anchorage was a lot different, even in context to the simulation itself. Sergeant Benjamin Montgomery is seen personally free climbing a cliff in a very inhospitable environment, the conditions alone were very treacherous. While not entirely out of the realm of possibilities, I think it's at least implied that the Americans were intentionally trying to make it out to be propaganda, less fact more fiction if you ask me. Though we do know, from Elliott Tercorien who served as a combat medic in the war, that those artillery guns you destroy in the DLC were actually real, since he mentions it so predominantly during a conversation.
As many have already said, the simulation is not an accurate source of information on the battle, with a lot of it seemingly embellished. But, it looks good for the US military to paint it like this, with just a few highly trained badasses overcoming overwhelming Chinese force. Plus, I think it’s supposed to be an approximation of the the battle. It’s a training sim, not the actual thing. It’s supposed to train soldiers on how to proceed with battles against the Chinese
Agreed, but I still think its fun to point out the ludacris nature of the simulation.
@@spydingo And lucky for you - the devs pointed it out themselves, in various terminals and notes you can find in the room. That the war was not glorious, that there were piles upon piles of American bodies, and long trench warfare according to Pvt. Dobbs from Fallotu 2, a cryogenically frozen soldier.
I mean Jesus dude, i love your content, but at least read the wiki before finishing your analysis to see if you missed something. If you check the wiki, you would know that the occupation lasted a literal DECADE, from 2066, to 2077 and it was NOT the glorious "they took the guns so we took them back and drove them off!" kind of war.
If we ever see a full Fallout 3 remake, I do hope that Operation Anchorage is given a full revamp in one of two ways. First way would be to make it feel more like what might have actually happened in Anchorage from actual soldier accounts as well as military info. The second way would be to make it look even more like silly video game crafted by the direction of an officer who was stuck behind a desk hundreds of miles away during the conflict and is looking to glorify his own vision of what happened at Anchorage while some of the people working under him secretly sought to make him look like an absolute fool.
You mean something like Fallout Frontier?
I'd be 100 percent onboard for the first way, but I think I'd pass on the second way.
@krajenda9568 Maybe? Definitely better written either way.
@@spydingo Completely fair. Having a more realistic combat simulator would probably be what the government would have ordered. Though, considering how the Fallout universe is, you'd probably get the first one with hints of the second.
@@Azakamak2401 I've meant that for the second option lol
The problem with operation anchorage (not the dlc, in universe) is that the sim is totally unrealistic and is clearly been altered by General Chase to fit his narrative of the battle (I mean, the veritbirds in the sim wouldnt come into service until after the war)
Since the sole survior is implied to have won the medal of honor in anchorage many, myself included, belive the simulation is a fictionalized version of whatever he did.
I always wanted modders to try to make a more realistic approach to the battle. Like since it was General Chase on drugs going unhinged forcing the guys to make it. Like not that we really know how it went just a much more difficult and costly campaign and maybe have it to where you can do both sides but have different quests as both. It's an idea for a mod since the assets are already there. I wish I could do it but have zero talent when it comes to that.
You'd be shocked how effective a small group of american paratroopers can be, just look at some of the D-Day stories
I feel you, but a two man team up against 40 men, sometimes in large groups, sometimes elite special forces, is still a lot to swallow.
Wasn't the whole simulation supposed to be an army recruitment thing? I vaguely remembered General chase saying something along the lines of "visit the nearest recruitment center if you want to see more of this" at the end before you are removed from the simulation
My guess regarding the rotating concrete on the arty guns is that the mounts themselves were built like battleship turrets
My biggest complaint about this though…HOW THE HECK DID CHINESE FORCES GET PAST AMERICAN BASES IN THE PACIFIC, NAMELY JAPAN?! It’s one thing for Russia to conduct this invasion but China? Not without first taking over the first island chain
Hmm, that would be my assumption as well. I'd still expect only the turret portion to rotate though, and not the entire casing.
That's a good question. I suppose its possible in the fallout universe that Japan and the US are no longer close allies, or that China invaded Japan much like the US invaded Alaska. I will say though, there is precedence in the fallout universe for the US being terrible at detecting threats. I mean some how the Yangtze got near the US coast with all those screws, and Chinese espionage forces were everywhere.
@@spydingo OOooooooorrrr that it took more than two bombs to knock the Japanese out of the war. Resulting in an Allied invasion and complete nuclear devastation on Japan
@@Mac_in_the_Hat I like this take. Operation Olympic actually happened, severely weakened the US and allowed the Chinese to become ascendant.
Don't forget the Chinese had stealth Tech far in advance of what the US thought possible.
It's comparable to the US navy in WW2 dismissing the possibility that Japan had effective long range torpedoes but they in fact did.
The Art you use in your videos is pretty awesome, especially the Prydwen one! I assume you make it yourself because I can’t find it anywhere online. If you do make it yourself would you consider uploading your work to a site like DeviantArt or ArtStation for people to look at? Anyways great work as always!
That's correct! Huh, I've thought of putting it up for free as patreon posts, but never really considered DeviantArt or ArtStation. I don't think it ever really dawned on me that my work was artistic enough to have a place on such sites. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll give it a think!
@@spydingo :)
5th
best i can come up with for the lack of American armour in the region may be lack of ability to deploy it, best i can come up with it due to the US's preference for heavy tanks perhaps they cant be deployed on mass to Alaska while the chimera tanks are far better suited thanks to their screws.
Logistically the US could have certainly delivered the Patton to the area via shipping to the port, but as you say the Patton is a 60 ton vehicle. This plus the snow, assuming the ground isn't frozen, could force any such units to be unable to leave the road. Though, with the location in question being a city and not the wilderness so much, I think it still would have been worthwhile to deploy some.
It's certainly true though the the chimera tanks would be better suited for the environment if the ground isn't frozen, plus I think the chimera comes with the benefit of already being present in the region for use as mining equipment.
@@spydingo exactly, though the lack of American air power or seemingly persevered lack of since Chinese bombers can operate unescorted may also be a factor in the lack of heavy armour deployment.
Though i completely agree that the Patton is likely impervious to the laser weaponry of the Chimera so some might be nice to see.
Great video, but it turns out that the simulation is basically just the wet-dream version the commanding US general from the original operation came up with FOR the simulation. What "actually" happened is probably only loosely related to what we see in Operation Anchorage.
in regards to your dislike of the gameplay differences between anchorage and the rest of fallout 3 it should be noted that operation anchorage was designed to play more like an FPS shooter rather than an RPG which is why there is no deterioration and a much more linear gameplay structure
Oh, I knew it had to be intentional. I didn't mean to imply I thought they accidently changed the formula.
Good analysis, I wouldn't say they caught the U.S. entirely off guard, I'm almost positive that it's mentioned in lore that America foresaw invasion, and heavily fortified Alaska in preparation for a possible Communist incursion.
just found ur channel, love the fallout content
In universe the simulation was both a propaganda and a training machine to prepare the troops that were assigned to for the real operation anchorage so the lack of certain details can be attributed to that,
I view it less as propaganda, and more like general Chase inflating his own ego by embellishing the details of the historical event.
Also I'm pretty sure the simulation was created after the actual operation anchorage, the terminal in the outcast bunker containing the sim says something to the effect of "there is no way it happened like that". This does beg the question though, what exactly does the simulation train the soldiers for, given anchorage is already reclaimed? hmm..
I thought it was pretty clearly meant to be a parody of patriotic mainstream modern warfare FPS series like CoD and Medal of Honor. Hence the RPG mechanics are stripped back, there are gimmicky immersion-breaking health and ammo dispensers, the levels are incredibly linear in a way which doesn't make any sense in-universe, and the tactics employed by both sides in the battle run on pure Michael Bay movie logic.
Well ... in the terminal itseld the soldiers said it was nothing like it, unrealistic af but the general wanted it like that, so the engineers changed the emolution towards his regards instead of the Soldiers wich actually were there.
Interesting, well done!
Many thanks!
Did you forget that this is a simulation for you to get trained for Power Armor?
Loved this video
I'm glad! Thanks for taking the time to comment, it really helps!
Despite being discount albino, I can't say much about sci-fi winter war. What I can say is good work as always, SpyDingo.
Thanks Sir KingHenry!
The HALO drop instead of the vertibird allowed for a more stealthy insertion.
I always say Operation Anchorage as in-universe fiction
A good thing to say. I hope there is a kernel of truth in it though, as its pretty much the only look we get into military actions in the fallout universe.
Probably they landed via parachute and not vertibird because of noise, i don't think there are stealthy vertibirds variants, so probably a halo jump was better for a surprise element standpoint. Why not bombing it? it's a stretch, but if the chinese bombers are uncontested in the sky, it's probable that they have air superiority in the region, maybe that's why there are few vertibirds deploying troops, they would need to fly really low and in dangerous zones. But overall it is a simulation, so probably all it’s loosely based on real events, who knows
Are we going to have an video on the Chinese bombers :D?
Hmmm, certainly worth a try. Hard to really critique something with about as many polygons as a paper airplane though.
@@spydingo pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaase
To be fair its a simulation, not a accurate retelling of the battle. Its more like propuganda also the trench could be a sapping trench or Americans tried to dig a Trench to the HQ to shorten the distance the soldiers had to move in the open, but the Chinise then launched a raid to take the Trench.
The best reason for the bad tactics is this is a propaganda training sim. Not a real military operation.
I'm not sure I'd call it a propaganda sim. Not a whole lot of value in running propaganda on individuals that are already conscripted in your army.
I prefer to think its loosely based on fact. Yes the artillery overlook was retaken, sure the fuel depot was seized, and the T51-B power armor proved essential to the reclamation of the oil refinery. Every single facet of the simulation though, is under the lens of General Chase's ego, and lets just say clearly Chase had a lot to compensate for. =)
@@spydingo agreed
You mentioned in a different comment that you didn't think propaganda would be necessary on men who are already enlisted in your military. While I'm not sure that's quite accurate (better morale is always a good thing!), we know that America was making use of conscription (a few Arcjet Systems employees record on holotape that they got drafted). Worse, from a morale standpoint, former Canadian citizens would have been eligible for such a draft after the American annexation of Canada. It's very possible that the American army of the time included quite a number of people who would have really preferred not to be there.
I guess I just have a hard time seeing an unwilling conscript, or really even a willing one, having their moral improved by the simulation. It doesn't really try and strike any emotional cord, other than to say American soldiers are better than Chinese soldiers. I suppose it's possible to see the simulation as inspirational, given this one mythical individual overcame such astronomical odds, so I guess can see some merit in that. That being said though, I find it hard to believe that the US government would be sending conscripted soldiers to VR training. That's a lot of expense for a country that is known to put very low value on human life. Id suspect this type of training would be for the military elite instead.
Great callout about the Canadian citizens being drafted, I'd never really thought about that before, but yeah that's brutal!
@@spydingo Having slept on the matter, I've got a couple of knock-on thoughts to add.
By putting the subject in the boots of a hero who changed the course of the battle (probably a 'collage' of a number of notable incidents from the battle, but condensed into one person for the sake of storytelling), the simulation encourages the sense of invulnerability and protagonist syndrome which most young men have naturally.
The simulation paints a picture of American technological superiority, reminiscent of the Axis in summer of 1943, when they were a step ahead of the allies in tank development. Although the Chinese would soon be fielding power-armour of their own, the simulation depicts a time and place in which power-armour was a purely American thing (historically accurate), where America has support from vertibirds and fatman launchers (not historically accurate) and where Chinese tanks are actually retrofitted mining rigs (described as 'sheer fantasy' in a reconstructed audio log, but the need to use such vehicles could be taken as an implied criticism of Chinese industry and logistics). Historically speaking, new technology rarely sees its first combat without encountering design hiccups - think of the British tanks at Cambrai, or of the Me 262 - but here the first combat deployment of power armour is depicted as having been entirely without technical incident, which might or might not have been the case, but which seems unlikely.
It's not hard to see how General Chase benefits personally from such depictions: not only was he in command at Anchorage, but he runs Chase R&D, so when he depicts 1) America as more technologically sophisticated than its opponents, and 2) victory having directly stemmed from this technological superiority, he's depicting not only his leadership, but also his company, as having been strategically necessary.
In conclusion, I think I half agree with you. It *is* propaganda, but it's not really propaganda intended for the men on the ground, even if Chase might like to depict it as such: it's propaganda intended for the men back in Washington, the ones who make decisions about who gets promotions and who gets government contracts.
I would love to see post war alaska
Did the Chinese go absolutely ham on the region out of spite?
Are there still descendants of chinese amd us troops?
Agreed! Or Canada. Though it feels unlikely that we will get such a thing as Bethesda likes to stay on their coast.
What do yall think about a fallout China named Fallout: The Three Kingdoms, based in China (duh) CCP remnants vs American invasion force, and the wasteland survivors. You have the ability to command the US forces and your troops can be defeated but you can pull citizens from the wasteland survivors and train them to soldiers, as long as they're happy and aprove of your cause, which you build domestic industry/businesses and implement policies to gain buffs and debuffs. And build military industry to provide equipment for your troops and farms to feed them, medical centers to heal both the soldiers and the domestic population, and implement rad scrubbing teams to lower or neutralize the effects of radiation on both the food your population consumes and the population itself, and manage a new currency in which you need to gain legitimacy and confidence in the economic system and just attempt to build an American dream in China. I know that doesn't sound like fallout but it's just a more advanced building and economic system than fallout 4 with the sim settlement 2 mod.
I get an RTS fallout vibe from that description and I'd be down for that. Its honestly really surprising to me, in both a good and bad way, that Bethesda hasn't branched out with the fallout series more. With it being set in china I'd worry about it being a bonafide game and not a mobile game, looking at you assassins' creed Jade. Though I think its far less likely that a game about a US Chinese conflict would be targeted to a Chinese audience, especially given fallouts framing of the "good" and "bad" guys.
@spydingo yeah I had some more ideas about it but I felt like it's just not fallout enough, so I think taking out the RTS element would be better for it, however still the story line would remain relatively the same where you have a quest line to gain troops and equipment via a quest to gain local popularity and confidence and a quest to raid an old world armory and or dive into the ocean to recover sealed shipping containers sunk before the bombs. And then a quest to defeat the Chinese in a series of quest lines similar to the operation Anchorage dlc in fallout 3 but a lot more intense and interesting. Obviously, there would be plenty of level designs to go with it, and I'd rather a fallout take 8 years to develop than to get a sloppy rushed game that just isn't fun.
He complains a bit about not having weapon door ability in a simulation of a time and weapons would be a lot more durable cuz they weren't sitting out expose the elements and radiation for More than 100 years weapon durability definitely should have been in fallout 4
2008 was the year of FO3... 2007 was the year of COD: Modern warfare... I'm pretty sure bethesda just wanted to try their hand at a COD campaign with OA. Unlike F:NV where each DLC continued a story hinted at in the base game (and featured characters also mentioned in the base game, and provided world building for the whys of the Mojaves odd creatures..), FO3 DLC was just what ever the devs should brainstorm in the 48hr game jams. (same thing happened in skyrim, with Dawnguard, and dragonborn)
Um.... I don't want to point this out but that's not the Fallout US flag 😅
Sure it is! The middle star is just hiding
@@spydingo I can't see the middle star lol 😆
@@allanlane135 I mean if you could, then it wouldn't be hiding. Duuuuuh =P
@@spydingo I know the sim isn't fully historical accurate to the event, maybe thats way the star is missing lol 😆
Why r there no likes lol