I hope your doing this for views and not because you watched one video of this happening and think this is how accidental discharges happen. A gun falling and causing an accidental discharge has to land in such a specific angle to take just enough spring pressure off the seer and move (wiggle) just enough for the seer to pass the lock. You would have a better chance putting your gun in a jig so it was upside down with the barrel aiming 45 degrees up and using the hammer on the trigger guard. The gun in question fell and landed upside down on the slide. But the discharge had nothing to do with the slide. Oh well... for the boys right.
That's not why the P320 could go off when dropped. The inertia of the mass of the trigger could pull the trigger and fire the gun. That's why the redesign shaved the metal off the trigger to make it lighter to minimize that possibility. If you look at those triggers they are extremely thin. What he's gotta do is grab the gun by the handle backwards and slam the back of the gun on the table. Of course, that's extremely dangerous to perform.
@@btappe1286 With both pistols you can see me make my 10th impact the clip slows down to normal speed and then proceed to fire. On the m18 the firearm jammed and you literally watch me clear the malfunction in real time and then chamber the 3rd round and fire it. So, if I didn’t do that I wouldn’t have made a cut. I had to because of the time constraint on the video and you can see me try to fire immediately after the 10th impact. Proving there was a round in the chamber
@@nathancomalander4417 exactly. Hard to confine everything to a minute. Unfortunately sacrifices have to be made. On the 10th impact on each firearm you see me immediately pick up the pistol and try to fire. On the M18 you then watch me clear the malfunction in real time, chamber another round and then fire. On the compact, no malfunction occurred you watch the firearm feed another round and then we clear it.
Exactly my thoughts. On the first pistol he had the safety on when he was hammering it. You can hear he took the safety off when he aas going to shoot it after.
@@duvielhernandez2887 The safety click is literal proof it was done in real time. Idk why people think I would post false results on these tests. It would benefit me none at all.
99% of people have no idea what they're taking about. The original fat trigger weighed too much and was essentially pulling itself when dropped due to momentum. If a 320 has the "skinny" trigger, the issue is fixed and they also added a striker block mechanism as part of the fix. That was YEARS AGO. Its also got a spring loaded double position sear, if the striker block were to fail, and the fp slipped off the primary sear, it will be caught by the 2nd sear notch. Short of the firing pin breaking in half, I dare anyone to explain to me mechanically how a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. It can't
Im a gunsmith. I’ve replicated the original 320 issue maybe 60 times in my career. I personally carry a 320x compact every day. Because I am professionally confident that it cannot discharge until I tell it to. Just don’t buy a pre-upgrade gun and you’ll be fine
Literally every gun smith I’ve asked has said the same thing, morons with guns is nothing new a good chunk of this comment section shows it. The real funny part is when you defend the 320 your either a Sig fan boy or hate Glock in their eyes
Yeah, SIG won 30 of all of the first 30 lawsuits and in each case it was proven that the owner/operator CAUSED the gun to go off by the action of the trigger being pulled. The only lawsuit they lost recently wasn't because their guns went off without the trigger being pulled, but because their triggers have short, light breaks like a single action trigger... so they ruled that SIG didn't do enough to stop customers from accidentally pulling the triggers on their guns (since most don't have manual safeties). It was an insanely unjust ruling though and it makes gun companies responsible for the actions and mistakes of their customers. I have no doubt if they appeal they'll win... but you never know. When Jennings lost his famously unjust lawsuit, he gave up as far as I know. In his lawsuit a man took the mag out of his gun, pointed the gun at his daughter and then pulled the trigger and killed her. Then he went and sued Jennings, because the gun fired without a magazine, which is how MOST guns work. It was disgustingly evil and unjust that they ruled his company was responsible. The man's daughter only died, because he broke every single common sense rule about gun safety.
@@matthewbeaver5026 Yeah, I hate them and always remove them. (Even is I have to design and make my own parts to replace the disconnect, so it will still function right). It's nice that many guns (with them) will work just fine if you remove them... and some guns have commercial companies that make cheap, simple bushings and replacements... but there are a lot that just have no way to remove them unless you make your own custom parts.
@@Strategic-Management Same, why even risk it with all the other reliable names to choose from. Personally I’d never roll the dice when it involves blowing your third leg off. 😂
It fires when dropped, not when hit. The issue is the original trigger weighed too much, and when dropped, and strikng rearward, the weight of the trigger, affected by its momentum, caused the trigger to fully depress, firing it. You can't recreate that issue by banging on the rear of the gun while also supporting the front of the firearm. If you want to ACTUALLY recreate the misfire issue, you have to either dropp the firearm, or you have to hold the very bottom of the grip, allowing the pistol to rotate upon that axis, so when you strike it from the rear, the gun moves forward. This creates inertia, which will cause the trigger to want to remain at rest as the gun moves forward, causing it to fire.
I don’t know anything about this particular gun but I was looking at the test wondering what this is supposed to prove. Little inertia is being transferred into the weapon. Most of the energy is going through the table and into the ground.
My dad is in the Oklahoma highway patrol, the p320 has been the service weapon for them for a couple years. They are changing it this year because there was 18 accidental discharges in the last two years. They crept blaming it on the holster. Finally some one had tossed their gun belt into their car and the. Gun went off.
So they had NDs from all the DEI hirings/Fudd cops and the last one a guy threw his rig like an idiot and it landed randomly and somehow this specifically is related to the 320 and NOT your Dads dumb co workers being dumb.
@@RatherCrunchyMuffinYou can keep living in denial all you want but anytime identity is used for hiring decisions, merit matters less, and in the end the chosen candidates are less qualified. Race or anything else has nothing to do with it. I can’t believe I’m having to explain how meritocracy works and why subverting it is bad in 2024.
I think it jammed, because the striker was released from the sear, which means that it was either stopped by the striker safety or it was stopped by the second cut/engagement surface of the sear. If that's the case, then if it was stopped by the striker safety it would allow you to pull the trigger the rest of the way to release the striker, but it would not have enough power to set off the round (but you'd know something was wrong with the trigger and it would feel almost dead). ...and if it was stuck on the second sear safety cut, it would have a jammed trigger. It would still have a little take up, but when you pulled the trigger, the ser would not move easily at all, because it's designed to kind of jam up. It's cut at an angle, so there's a positive engagement that kind of makes the sear grab onto the striker. The two different failures (or safeties) can happen if the striker gets released from the sear without the trigger being pulled and you can usually tell by the feel of the trigger if either one happened. It's good to know that the safeties DO work and the guns ARE safe... but I'm still not a fan of the fact that on some of their guns the striker can be released from the sear by impact or kinetic energy. That would never happen on a Glock and the vast majority of other handgun (trigger) designs have safeties to stop that from happening in the first place. With that said though, I wouldn't consider it a reason to not trust it as a safe gun to carry. They're good, safe, reliable handguns and people have been entirely unfair with them by repeating rumors and lies.
With the price of these firearms and the reputation of sig, there shouldnt need to be an upgrade. They should have been perfect and functional upon first release.
Love to see the growth on your channel man! You did the test correctly, idc what these fools say about “oh you shouldn’t speed up the video”. You can speed it up without making cuts, exactly as you did. I conceal carry an sig P320 x compact everyday, appendix style and have no issues. I also carry the glock 19 the exact same way. I like to switch it up. Thanks again for the video!
@@chrisc4824 Thanks for the support! 😎🦅🇺🇸 I switch between my 43x and 19. I usually carry my 19 when the weather gets cold. Easier to conceal with flannels and jacket.
@@RogueGinger What’s your concealed carry holster? I finally made the jump to Tier One Concealment. I have to admit, they are extremely good and it feels so sturdy I can even run with it. I don’t have to hold my hand there and support the holster when running. I have a five year old so sometimes random sprinting is a must. It does manage to conceal better than my Werkz as well.
@@chrisc4824 I run the T-Rex arms sidecar holster. During the summer time I don’t use the side car very often. Mostly run it with the side car during the colder months. When i was looking for a carry holster I was so torn between the tier 1 and t red arms. I chose the T. rex arms mostly because the turn around time was quicker. When I swear swears or gym shorts it jumps around, but with jeans and a quality carry belt like a Kore essentials I get very little movement when running.
I've tested some myself also. Tried hitting them like this (on a harder table) and also even slammed them down at different angles very hard too. The slide and the sights didn't take any damage at all either. The frame cracked after using it for many tests, but it was an old frame I got for free that I dedicated for testing. I originally tested with the magazine full of dummies, but the base plates break far easier when there's bullets in it. If it's full and you slam it down on the base plate unevenly (on one side or corner) the weight of all the bullets will break out from the inside. I've never had any fire not matter how hard or how many times I hit or slammed them.
@@elgayetas Yet SIG won 30 or 30 lawsuits, proving that in each and every case the owner/operator Caused the gun to fire by causing the trigger to be pulled. They only ever had problems before they did the upgrade, because the triggers were too heavy. Not once since then have they ever been proven to be unsafe. 30 of 20 lawsuits prove that too. Nobody has ever shown in any way how the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled. (In a rational and possible way. ANY gun can go off in some crazy, weird, almost impossible way and no mechanical device will ever be 100% fail safe).
@@deucedeuce1572facts. Lol if they dont loke the sig. bro dont buy it. Let us buy it maybe pricing will drop lol. Even thought the gun isnt that expensive.
@@elgayetasno it didn’t they were all operator induced discharges it’s just that the p320 has a really light trigger so it goes off when a father lands on it
They did once upon a time. In a previous generation where LE moved from DAO or DASA or revolvers to striker fired lots of ND's happened and there were plenty of heresay and investigations.
@watchdog_mccoy_5.7x28 Cops had enough NDs from super comparably lightweight troggers that entire states mandated a heavier trogger modification... and it STILL say cops NDing. 99% lf the NDs with p320s have been from cops holstering with an obstruction in their holster. And much like when they violate somebody's 1st, 2nd or 4th amendment rights, their internal investigations always show that their officers did nothing wrong. I ONLY trust external investigations when it comes to NDs with the police. And they almost universally show incompetence, not weapons failures. This specific issue was only a problem on the first 6 months of p320s. And those were corrected FOR FREE almost a decade ago. The only police p320s with this issue are those that have neglected a recall for over a decade. Which is MORE negligent than having an obstruction in the holster.
Although the glock never had an ND/AD situation... there are more than enough cases where a rapid unscheduled disassembly occurred.... it took until the Gen 3 to fix that issue.
I had to due to time constraints. With both pistols you can see me make my 10th impact the clip slows down to normal speed and then proceed to fire. On the m18 the firearm jammed and you literally watch me clear the malfunction in real time and then chamber the 3rd round and fire it.
@@evanshannonyou know shorts are one the easiest money makers on TH-cam right? There’s a reason this a short and not a video. Why would he stop making short videos that inform and bring in views
Yeah, with the m18 the safety was on. I did this because from my understanding it would discharge with and without the safety on. Since I had a p320 compact without the manual safety. I tested both theory’s. Neither discharged. Someone asked me to redo this video anyway. I will redo it with the safety off on the m18.
@@sandrierdi9757 the safety doesnt stop the type of drop malfuncfion, the safety stops the trigger from being pulled, it does not stop an external force from pushing the firing pin into the round that is already chambered
I carry a Sig and love it. Just like anything else in this world, the second someone has a problem and it goes viral, people take it as gospel and run with it. Sig has already corrected any issues just like every other manufacturer has fixed their issues. Find out what works for you and carry that. Do your own research. Just don't go off of one or two stories you read in a gun forum. And to this creator, it seems like you really did an honest and impartial test without interjecting your opinion one way or the other. That is very commendable and rare nowadays. That has earned you a follow from me my brother.
The issues likely occurs when the firearm is falling and comes to an abrupt stop when it hits the floor. Hitting a stationary firearm with a mallet is not comparable for testing.
The trigger had too much mass and it would pull through when dropped and bang... It's been resolved by redesign of the trigger and an added internal block of some sort. Can't Rembert what they called it.
There's a hammer test video out there done by Legally Armed America set up in the same way, and the early M18 did go off when struck on the backplate. There's a few other drop test videos and it seems discharges only happen when struck in that area.
@@RogueGinger bc there are none bud. The discharge issue got fixed not long after those variants were released. Mainly bc it kept happening in Army MP’s holsters. Lol I was still in when we got them but got out before the primary weapon change. Good pistols reliable to the end.
@Joker-11B-SYLV A lot of people are adamant, even today, that the P320 has drop safety issues. Unfortunately there are recent examples, but I stand to believe that someone could have proved where the mechanical issue is by now, if there is a mechanical issue
Half the discharge videos posted are drop failures that detonate by the beaver tail landing first, with the barrel upwards. From what slowmos I've seen, it seems the trigger is literally pulled by gravity, since the first models all had metal triggers with significantly more mass than plastic ones.
Well I would like to point something out that as a current military officer, (SSG) the first Sig when he was beating it the safety was on if you look back you can clearly hear the safety being disengaged, the second Sig never has any problems when it comes to accidentally firing
@@jozachj5019 Yeah, with the m18 the safety was on. I did this because from my understanding it would discharge with and without the safety on. Since I had a p320 compact without the manual safety. I tested both theory’s. Neither discharged. Someone asked me to redo this video anyway. I will redo it with the safety off on the m18.
Hold on, this doesn't pass the sniff test. I spent 20 years in the military and absolutely zero non-commissioned officers (which, as a SSG, you would be) would refer to themself as a military officer. You would say you were an NCO. Only commissioned officers are referred to as simply officers... 🤔
From what I've seen it not the hitting on the back of the slide but when dropped on its back the inertia and light recoil spring allows the slide to come back a little and sorta slam fire when returning.
The common misconception about the P320 discharging is left over from a years old recall that did happen, but since then SIG has managed to manufacture all of them without this defect and without this tendency to discharge. My buddy owns a 320 compact for several years now and it has never failed him.
30 lawsuits about the guns going off by themselves and SIG won all 30. They proved in each and every single case that the owner/operator caused the gun to fire, because they caused the trigger to be pulled. People hear about a lawsuit though and assume their guilt. Then they remain willingly ignorant of the lawsuits outcome, because they don't care about the Truth. Glock has been sued over 1000x, but people assume them to be safe. They even have the term "Glock Leg" and also the "Glock Kaboom". I actually don't like SIG as a company... and I don't like the people that run the company either. If the Truth has to be said though, then the Truth has to be said. Nobody has ever proved how a working, unmodified or unbroken SIG P320 can go off without the trigger being pulled. (since the upgrade of course).
Actually...likely only 100 people whined about it. Nice try. Yet, no one blamed operator error in2017. Weird. Let's not forget about Glock Leg, either.
@@charles90407 No there aren't. You're just making shit up and I'm calling BS. I've tried to find videos for YEARS. I've actively sought them out and in all this time I found one. That's just not enough to trust and I would bet my life that he couldn't do it with a gun that I tested to be mechanically sound before the test. It's mechanically impossible without the gun being either damaged or assembled incorrectly. Of 30 lawsuits, SIG won ALL 30 of them, because in each and every single case it was proven that the owner/operator Caused the gun to fire by Causing the trigger to be pulled. Not once though has anyone ever showed how (an upgraded) P320 could ever go off without the trigger being pulled. You hear about the lawsuits, assume their guilt and then repeat lies and rumors as fact, even making shit up as you go along. Only recently dis SIG ever lose a lawsuit... but it had nothing to do with the guns going off without the trigger being pulled. It had to do with the P320 trigger being a short, light trigger pull and not having a manual safety. The jury ruled that SIG didn't do enough to stop people from accidentally pulling the triggers on their guns. It's a completely unjust lawsuit and it makes ALL gun companies responsible for the actions/mistakes of their customers. Just google "Glock Leg". Sigs been sued 30 times and people assume them guilty... but Glocks been sued 1000x and people assume them to be safe. For every P320 accusation though, there's been over 300 Glock accusations. Even if all 30 were the fault of the gun though, that would be only 1 in 100,000 guns... and if 10% of them were it would be 1 in every 1,000,000 guns... yet there were ZERO lawsuits won against them, because in each and every single case the trigger WAS pulled.
The P320’s were only found to fire by being struck at a very specific angle. I believe it was an upward slant striking the lower rear of the slide. There is also multiple videos online of them firing without any input whatsoever. Obviously do as you please, however, I will personally never trust, nor own one.
From my understanding, it wasn't about the striker, it was about the trigger being slightly too heavy, so when falling on the striker, the gun would go off due to the mass of the trigger.
For the 320 to fire without the trigger being moved to the rear, 3 safety mechanisms would have to fail at the same time. There's a secondary sear notch, so IF the sear were to lose control of the striker, the second notch would catch it (unless the trigger is pulled). There is also a striker blocking safety that wouldn't allow the striker to contact the primer on a chambered round (unless the trigger is pulled). So, if your 320 "goes off all by itself" buy a freakin' lottery ticket! You beat the odds! I have carried a P-320 Compact in .45 ACP for 2 years, round chambered, without issue. Thousands of rounds fired and no malfunctions. It's also really easy to shoot well.
True, at the begining Sig Sauer p320 law enforcement and civilian versions, will discharge on its own on the very first models, due to the purchase demands since sig sauer adquired the us army and usmc contract, sig sauer cutt corners with cheap and not reliable material, on the first models that were purchased by law enforcement agencies and civilians, causing discharges on these sig sauer p320.
Many Law Enforcement agencies and civilians git rid of the sig sauer p320 and went back to Glock or MP smith wesson. After that flaw sig sauer made a recall and fix the problem but now its to late for.many customers they wont trust sig saier again.
I've got 2, one I carry and one I shoot at competitions twice a month (with no mods btw). No problems, no complaints. I love their triggers and the way the grips feel. Very comfortable, accurate and reliable.
I built mine about 7 years ago in the garage, carry it live everyday and I have yet to see any issues other than the stove pipe when I'm not gripping the weapon tight enough.
So the issue with the 320 going off was fixed years ago. The ones we hear about today are either ones that didn't get the upgrade because the owner didn't return the pistol, or as the majority of the cases have been proven to be, the user shot themselves and blamed the gun.
Sig’s website has a way for you to check the serial number on your P320 so you can verify if it was part of the lots that had the defect that caused them to fire when dropped.
If you want to safely do this sort of test, pull the bullet out of the case, pour out the propellant. Then you can load the empty brass with the primer still in tact and if it fires from the strikes it will ignite the primer; but there is no chance of a projectile ending up somewhere you didnt intend. Your hand could easily slip, the impact of the hammer on the back could turn the muzzle, there could be a rock on the ground the projectile ricochets off of etc... no bullet, no oopsies...
The reason they would go off is because they would fall with the bbl facing up and the original triggers weight enough and the trigger break was light enough that the trigger would get pulled back from the impact so it was like someone pulled the trigger
The culprit was the original P320 trigger. The physical weight of that part was heavy enough to overcome the pull weight required for the pistol to fire when dropped. The whole weight in motion physics thing, lol.
I didn’t believe those pistols fired on their own until one day at the range in front of witnesses I inserted a loaded magazine into the M17, and as soon as the slide went forward it discharged, my finger was nowhere near the trigger. I really like the pistol. I sent it to SIG, they had it for a little while and I got it back. I was told the problem could not be replicated. It hasn’t happened again and that’s been about 3-4 years ago.
What you're describing is a common ND. You most likely had your finger in the trigger guard when you released the slide. Extremely common for new shooters to do this.
The so called problem happened about 5 or 6 years ago. Even though Sig said that they couldn’t duplicate it, they offered an update. Since the update, no 320’s have been sold that could possibly fire on its own. The M18, having a manual safety was never in question.
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the trigger has its own safety. Modern handguns will not go off unless your finger disengages the trigger safety because the trigger safety is holding the firing pin safety which prevents firing pin to move.
There is no trigger safety on a P320. You can add one if you buy an Agency Arms trigger, but they don't come with them. People aren't claiming that they're firing, because the trigger is pulled though, either by a finger, kinetic energy or something else. They're saying that the striker slips off the sear and fires without the trigger being pulled. No one's ever proved that to be true though... and SIG won 30 out of 30 lawsuits, because in every single case they proved that the owner/operator Caused the trigger to be pulled. People did dumb things with their P320's, caused negligent discharges and then tried to blame SIG and sue them for millions of dollars. Believe it or not though, in one case an aftermarket trigger with a trigger safety caused an accidental discharge. The pin drifted out the side of the trigger, so when the person went to reholster his gun, the pin snagged on the holster and that caused the trigger to be pulled as he pushed the gun into the holster.
Stick the slide in a vice. Pull on the grip to the side. *Click* If youre strong enough you can torque it by hand and set them off. They are pretty drop safe tho.
P320 i a very good pistol. I carried a P229 for years on the job. The 320 i a little lighter and is a good pistol Accurate, reliable, rugged. You can't go wrong.
I carry my sig p320 every day pointed straight at my fun parts. Not sure if I have the og version with the problem or not I've had it for a few years. I do know it's a quality handgun and I've gotten great at shooting it.
My understanding is that the drop safety issue was caused by inertia pulling the trigger. By bracing the pistol on a table, you might not be allowing inertia to take hold. Possibly try again, but instead hold the pistol, and instead of a live round, pull the bullet and use a primed but otherwise empty case.
That was the old P320's before the upgrade. That's no longer a claim. The claim is that they go off without the trigger being pulled (like while in their holster). In 30 of 30 lawsuits though, SIG proved that in each and every case the owner/operator Caused the gun to go off by somehow causing the trigger to be pulled. The claims are never that the gun went off from falling though (by the trigger being pulled by inertia). There may be a newer case though, but I don't have any information on it. I don't think it's been settled. In any case though, even if all 30 were the fault of the gun. That would be 1 in 100,000 P320's. That's not too bad an it doesn't make them really unsafe like people claim. If even 10% of the cases were true, then that would be 1 in 1,000,000 gun... and that would make them just as safe as any other gun. However... in 30 cases... NONE of them were ever proven to be the fault of the gun. If even one of those cases ever proved the gun to be at fault though. It would literally be like 1 in 3,500,000 guns. That's going by old numbers though and they've probably sold at least 5 million of them by now.
@@deucedeuce1572 Yeah, I phrased it the way I did because I own an M17 and have handled hundreds of P320s of varying styles, and post upgrade, every one I've seen has had the firing pin safety, which is that little triangular tab beside the striker. I can't figure out how both the sear would slip and the firing pin safety would be disengaged without the trigger having been pulled. I was trying to think of how he could get the trigger to pull from that.
The Sig 320 only jams when it has the curved trigger (weighs more/therefore more affected by gravity) and when dropped downwards at a 45° angle to land on the back of the slide flat on the ground. (Barrel facing up to blow ur nuts off). Sig originally tried to pretend it wasn’t an issue, and then after a million people flipped shit, they issued a recall and fixed the problem with multiple safety features.
That's before the recall and upgrade. They've been tested over and over since then and in 10's of thousands of tests (if not 100s of thousands) they've never fired a single time, no matter what angle they were dropped at. Agency Arms also has P320's that they use for drop testing, both with and without their triggers... and in many countless 1000s of their own tests they've never had any P320 go off from being dropped.
its not the force on the slide that caused the 320 to fire. it was the gun landing on the frame and hammer at the same time, causing the hammer to be pressed by inertia.
Always make sure the pistol you buy has a firing pin block safety. This will ensure its not just going to go off if you drop it, or bump it just right.
It’s the inertia of the the trigger, that made the sigs go off. holding it against the table makes the test useless. This test is for a sear surface issue like a 1911 or REM 700 would have. Which when hit with a hammer like this do have a likelihood to go off. The sig issue is like hitting a hammer handle to put it into the head. The inertia of the trigger is greater than the spring weights and it had the inertia/momentum to move through the springs.
@RogueGinger unfortunately, this is not an accurate drop test. During a drop, all components in the gun are accelerating under gravity. When the gun drops onto the end cap area, there’s a sudden deceleration of the frame and slide, but the trigger is just under spring a small amount of spring tension meaning it can decelerate less and move rearward which can release the striker. Your test doesn’t simulate this. Instead, your test is attempting to accelerate the components in the other direction and is limited by the table. Shock waves do set off these guns, it’s the rearward movement of the trigger. Here’s an analogy. If you you were to reverse a dump truck into a concrete wall (drop gun on floor), the occupants and debris in the bed would fly to the rear of their areas… the driver would press pressed against the seat and the dirt would slam into the door. That’s like the trigger sliding rearward. However, the test in the video is like parking the dump truck at the wall, nose first, and smashing the rear with a Honda Civic (the hammer). Nothing will happen to the dirt or occupants since the energy is transferred from the dump truck frame to the wall.
All these people saying “ it’s a drop test”… no it’s not. Not anymore. Now there’s people saying the gun randomly discharges while doing nothing but sitting in a holster. So it’s NOT a drop test. It’s a test to show if the trigger assembly will release when there is any sort of impact with the firearm.
For safety sakes if you ever try this type of test again. Take your cartridge and remove the projectile and dump the powder charge. Leaving the brass case with a primer. Trust me, you'll hear the primer do it's job, and you eliminate any potential damger. The way you are doing it is unnecessarily risky.
The two P320 accidental discharges I know about both happened to left-handed officers seated in their cruiser with seat belts fastened. Their agency is considering changing to H&K.
That is not the problem. The trigger was too wide compared to the trigger guard (touching the holster). New models have addressed this. Problem solved. What you are proving (sort of) is the firing pin block works.
It’s a QC error, not a design flaw. The sellouts cannot keep up with contracts and civilian market at the same time. I actually was shocked to hear about the M17/18 that went off in an Airman’s holster a few weeks back; you’d think that to their highest bidder, the military marketed model would have fewest issues to keep their contract. But that’s still under investigation.
They fixed that issue It’s the first ones that came off the line that did that. Get one of those and try this again. There’s many videos of that gun going off in holsters
Do it with the original Ruger lcp. it's a common gun alot of people carry and there were recalls on the early 2008 models for unsafe discharges. Id be curious to see how well they fixed them.
The question is if that’s a LEO specific or civilian weapon. Because there is absolutely a difference. The LEO version isn’t an off the shelf gun and has a different trigger/pin setup than the civilian version.
I am not sure if that hammer copies the conditions properly, but still a good video imo. I am considering buying one of those. But I'll probably go for a sig p226
I haven't gotten mine to discharge accidently either, I loaded it with a few blanks and intentionally dropped it three times while riding on a dirt path at a range, shoulder height first 2 times at 15, 35, then at 65 in a toss that made me worried I could of actually damaged it. It sure as f bounced but no discharge. I did the tests cuz I heard rumors of them discharging accidently. The M18 seems solid enough I do not believe any accidental discharge occurred without the trigger catching on something. I was asked to try it with a g2 Taurus and an SCCY which went off at 35, and 70.
The "drop safe" problem is fixed and has been for years. If you go buy a 320 from a store it is no less drop safe than literally any other big brand manufacturers. I don't understand how this is still a debate going on.
Agency Arms makes an excellent trigger with the trigger safety like a Glock. It's far, far better than a Glock trigger though and you can't even tell the safety is there when you shoot it. I hate how Glocks trigger safety is thin like a blade and digs into your finger, but luckily the Agency trigger's not like that at all.
This issue isn't impacts to the back plate? The issue is sloppy manufacturing leading to sloppy slide/frame mating. Sig had Post-VUP P320's that had 1/4 of a mm of sear engagement. When the gun is constantly jostled in a duty holster that secures the gun by it's slide while the grip full of ammo can swing around all day, eventually the striker can slip. The striker safety is poorly designed and doesn't stop a slipped striker. Sig quietly fixed their striker engagement around 2019
Just so you know, the p320 did, in fact, go off by itself. This is recorded happening to a good number of people, and sig had to offer to repair all models with the faulty parts. It has since been fixed, but it did happen, and sig absolutely tried to lie about it.
I only question the validity because the table is not rigid, therefore it absorbs much of the recoil. The other videos I've seen, with contradictory results, have tested using solid benches. This detail, in my opinion, is important because it more closely mimics a securely mounted holster on a gun belt better than a flexible plastic folding table.
The thing that sets it off isn’t being hit on the striker it’s the inertia from being droppped, I own 2 Sigs one is a 365XL with a manual safety but I still have no idea why Sig won’t just use a trigger safety, it bothers no one
I look past the cuts but the area of concern was an impact on the rear sight area as if it was dropped. The old striker system was flawed. The new striker is not.
I’ve heard of a lot of things the most useful piece of inflammation I heard was to check the lot that your gun was made in and see if any guns in that group have had an accidental miss fire and if so think about buying a new one or switching platforms
I think the issue comes from dropping the pistol when the rear of the gun strikes first because it can allow the striker to slip and cause it to go off
Thsts not the problem. The problem is the trigger pivking up momentum as it falls. Then, with impact, the trigger keeps moving. The issue has been rectified, including having all sold firearms fixed with a recall
You know thats a double sided mallet right? The red side is non-marring and will still transfer the energy without damaging the metal... id love to see what the back of the slide looks like now.. up close.
Yeah the edit cuts aren’t going to help you make your point but I do respect it. Garand thumb done a 20 min video on this yesterday. Was painful to watch the drop test of probably about 30k worth of pistols and I reckon about $5-7k worth of damages. Was quite conclusive though. Respect to the efforts though bro. Rather toxic community rn
For everyone who is going to comment about the cuts. I redid it.
th-cam.com/users/shortseNRhXzFgdhI?si=vfoJZT3ltkkJhNij
ok
I hope your doing this for views and not because you watched one video of this happening and think this is how accidental discharges happen.
A gun falling and causing an accidental discharge has to land in such a specific angle to take just enough spring pressure off the seer and move (wiggle) just enough for the seer to pass the lock.
You would have a better chance putting your gun in a jig so it was upside down with the barrel aiming 45 degrees up and using the hammer on the trigger guard.
The gun in question fell and landed upside down on the slide. But the discharge had nothing to do with the slide.
Oh well... for the boys right.
Gunsmith says: The sight being struck toward the muzzle does nothing it needs to be struck toward the grip. 😊
Cops and soldiers don’t admit fault when they do stupid things
@@johnkale6302usually
Bro beating on that thing like it owes him money. The fast forwarding of the hammering had me rolling.
😂😂
That's not why the P320 could go off when dropped. The inertia of the mass of the trigger could pull the trigger and fire the gun. That's why the redesign shaved the metal off the trigger to make it lighter to minimize that possibility. If you look at those triggers they are extremely thin.
What he's gotta do is grab the gun by the handle backwards and slam the back of the gun on the table. Of course, that's extremely dangerous to perform.
@@steveh5307Calm down, it's not that serious. It's called entertainment for a reason.
you saying the fast fowarding of the hammering also got me rolling
@@RogueGinger why not use the rubber side?
Never ever make jump cuts when proving something.
@@btappe1286 With both pistols you can see me make my 10th impact the clip slows down to normal speed and then proceed to fire. On the m18 the firearm jammed and you literally watch me clear the malfunction in real time and then chamber the 3rd round and fire it. So, if I didn’t do that I wouldn’t have made a cut. I had to because of the time constraint on the video and you can see me try to fire immediately after the 10th impact. Proving there was a round in the chamber
In his defense, they call these youtube *Shorts* , I get what you mean but there's a time limit
@@nathancomalander4417 exactly. Hard to confine everything to a minute. Unfortunately sacrifices have to be made. On the 10th impact on each firearm you see me immediately pick up the pistol and try to fire. On the M18 you then watch me clear the malfunction in real time, chamber another round and then fire. On the compact, no malfunction occurred you watch the firearm feed another round and then we clear it.
Exactly my thoughts. On the first pistol he had the safety on when he was hammering it. You can hear he took the safety off when he aas going to shoot it after.
@@duvielhernandez2887 The safety click is literal proof it was done in real time. Idk why people think I would post false results on these tests. It would benefit me none at all.
99% of people have no idea what they're taking about. The original fat trigger weighed too much and was essentially pulling itself when dropped due to momentum. If a 320 has the "skinny" trigger, the issue is fixed and they also added a striker block mechanism as part of the fix. That was YEARS AGO. Its also got a spring loaded double position sear, if the striker block were to fail, and the fp slipped off the primary sear, it will be caught by the 2nd sear notch. Short of the firing pin breaking in half, I dare anyone to explain to me mechanically how a 320 can fire without the trigger being pulled. It can't
Thank you from saving me typing that lol 👍👍100% correct
They just don't like sig.
Thanks for the explanation. Is this the same mechanics that the 365 has?
And yet it still happens.
Why did they lose in court than?
Im a gunsmith. I’ve replicated the original 320 issue maybe 60 times in my career. I personally carry a 320x compact every day. Because I am professionally confident that it cannot discharge until I tell it to.
Just don’t buy a pre-upgrade gun and you’ll be fine
Literally every gun smith I’ve asked has said the same thing, morons with guns is nothing new a good chunk of this comment section shows it. The real funny part is when you defend the 320 your either a Sig fan boy or hate Glock in their eyes
Yep. I just hate the people acting like there isn't a problem at all.
And if you do happen to get a pre upgrade you can send it to sig for the upgrade for free
Sig never should have let it be sold with that design flaw in the first place.
It was just the trigger being too heavy, that was fixed years ago 😂
“It just went off!” Words that follow negligent discharges.
Yeah, SIG won 30 of all of the first 30 lawsuits and in each case it was proven that the owner/operator CAUSED the gun to go off by the action of the trigger being pulled. The only lawsuit they lost recently wasn't because their guns went off without the trigger being pulled, but because their triggers have short, light breaks like a single action trigger... so they ruled that SIG didn't do enough to stop customers from accidentally pulling the triggers on their guns (since most don't have manual safeties).
It was an insanely unjust ruling though and it makes gun companies responsible for the actions and mistakes of their customers. I have no doubt if they appeal they'll win... but you never know. When Jennings lost his famously unjust lawsuit, he gave up as far as I know.
In his lawsuit a man took the mag out of his gun, pointed the gun at his daughter and then pulled the trigger and killed her. Then he went and sued Jennings, because the gun fired without a magazine, which is how MOST guns work. It was disgustingly evil and unjust that they ruled his company was responsible. The man's daughter only died, because he broke every single common sense rule about gun safety.
@@deucedeuce1572 I would hate to know my fate was held in the hands of a jury.
@@deucedeuce1572those who forced mag disconnectes in other firearms should be more responsible than jennings.
@@matthewbeaver5026 Yeah, I hate them and always remove them. (Even is I have to design and make my own parts to replace the disconnect, so it will still function right). It's nice that many guns (with them) will work just fine if you remove them... and some guns have commercial companies that make cheap, simple bushings and replacements... but there are a lot that just have no way to remove them unless you make your own custom parts.
Well to be fair it does happen.
Watching vids like these always helps me feel better about carrying mine. Really don’t wanna cheddar bob myself 🥲
That would be sub optimal for sure
C bluuuuu
No Sigs for me!
@@Strategic-Management Same, why even risk it with all the other reliable names to choose from. Personally I’d never roll the dice when it involves blowing your third leg off. 😂
Lol this gun still has the potential to go off on its own. There's no way I'd carry one of these
It fires when dropped, not when hit. The issue is the original trigger weighed too much, and when dropped, and strikng rearward, the weight of the trigger, affected by its momentum, caused the trigger to fully depress, firing it. You can't recreate that issue by banging on the rear of the gun while also supporting the front of the firearm. If you want to ACTUALLY recreate the misfire issue, you have to either dropp the firearm, or you have to hold the very bottom of the grip, allowing the pistol to rotate upon that axis, so when you strike it from the rear, the gun moves forward. This creates inertia, which will cause the trigger to want to remain at rest as the gun moves forward, causing it to fire.
You sir are correct
I don’t know anything about this particular gun but I was looking at the test wondering what this is supposed to prove. Little inertia is being transferred into the weapon. Most of the energy is going through the table and into the ground.
@@rrsch exactly!
It's a drop test,
Not a hammer test.
@@Ogrematic and the test isn’t emulating a drop.
My dad is in the Oklahoma highway patrol, the p320 has been the service weapon for them for a couple years. They are changing it this year because there was 18 accidental discharges in the last two years. They crept blaming it on the holster. Finally some one had tossed their gun belt into their car and the. Gun went off.
BS
So they had NDs from all the DEI hirings/Fudd cops and the last one a guy threw his rig like an idiot and it landed randomly and somehow this specifically is related to the 320 and NOT your Dads dumb co workers being dumb.
@@sheepherder911 "DEI hire" is the new favorite phrase of a certain kind of person. As if there's any data that NDs are racially correlated
@@RatherCrunchyMuffin oh so you think “race” when confronted with DEI terminology. I was thinking gender but go off racist.
@@RatherCrunchyMuffinYou can keep living in denial all you want but anytime identity is used for hiring decisions, merit matters less, and in the end the chosen candidates are less qualified. Race or anything else has nothing to do with it.
I can’t believe I’m having to explain how meritocracy works and why subverting it is bad in 2024.
You took inertia out of the equation when holding it against the table.
th-cam.com/video/RMTe87kATmU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MKbfdxYIyKDBF7-s
th-cam.com/video/RMTe87kATmU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WdIxtnfEVY-QyBnf
I think it jammed, because the striker was released from the sear, which means that it was either stopped by the striker safety or it was stopped by the second cut/engagement surface of the sear.
If that's the case, then if it was stopped by the striker safety it would allow you to pull the trigger the rest of the way to release the striker, but it would not have enough power to set off the round (but you'd know something was wrong with the trigger and it would feel almost dead).
...and if it was stuck on the second sear safety cut, it would have a jammed trigger. It would still have a little take up, but when you pulled the trigger, the ser would not move easily at all, because it's designed to kind of jam up. It's cut at an angle, so there's a positive engagement that kind of makes the sear grab onto the striker.
The two different failures (or safeties) can happen if the striker gets released from the sear without the trigger being pulled and you can usually tell by the feel of the trigger if either one happened. It's good to know that the safeties DO work and the guns ARE safe... but I'm still not a fan of the fact that on some of their guns the striker can be released from the sear by impact or kinetic energy. That would never happen on a Glock and the vast majority of other handgun (trigger) designs have safeties to stop that from happening in the first place.
With that said though, I wouldn't consider it a reason to not trust it as a safe gun to carry. They're good, safe, reliable handguns and people have been entirely unfair with them by repeating rumors and lies.
SIG Sauer has since made the P320 drop-safe and is offering a voluntary upgrade program for early models.
With the price of these firearms and the reputation of sig, there shouldnt need to be an upgrade. They should have been perfect and functional upon first release.
@@BrianMusic12 really because other manufacturers don’t have problems?
Love to see the growth on your channel man! You did the test correctly, idc what these fools say about “oh you shouldn’t speed up the video”. You can speed it up without making cuts, exactly as you did. I conceal carry an sig P320 x compact everyday, appendix style and have no issues. I also carry the glock 19 the exact same way. I like to switch it up. Thanks again for the video!
@@chrisc4824 Thanks for the support! 😎🦅🇺🇸 I switch between my 43x and 19. I usually carry my 19 when the weather gets cold. Easier to conceal with flannels and jacket.
@@RogueGinger What’s your concealed carry holster? I finally made the jump to Tier One Concealment. I have to admit, they are extremely good and it feels so sturdy I can even run with it. I don’t have to hold my hand there and support the holster when running. I have a five year old so sometimes random sprinting is a must. It does manage to conceal better than my Werkz as well.
@@chrisc4824 I run the T-Rex arms sidecar holster. During the summer time I don’t use the side car very often. Mostly run it with the side car during the colder months. When i was looking for a carry holster I was so torn between the tier 1 and t red arms. I chose the T. rex arms mostly because the turn around time was quicker. When I swear swears or gym shorts it jumps around, but with jeans and a quality carry belt like a Kore essentials I get very little movement when running.
I did a similar test on all my sigs, and my cousin did the same. Can't say I had the balls to smack it as hard as you so thank you for your bravery 😂
@@alexbetsworth5357 haha! Glad you enjoyed! 😎🦅🇺🇸 for science
I've tested some myself also. Tried hitting them like this (on a harder table) and also even slammed them down at different angles very hard too. The slide and the sights didn't take any damage at all either. The frame cracked after using it for many tests, but it was an old frame I got for free that I dedicated for testing. I originally tested with the magazine full of dummies, but the base plates break far easier when there's bullets in it. If it's full and you slam it down on the base plate unevenly (on one side or corner) the weight of all the bullets will break out from the inside. I've never had any fire not matter how hard or how many times I hit or slammed them.
I have 4. Never ever had an issue. Very safe firearm IMO
Well opinions are not facts.
They definitely had issues
@@elgayetas Yet SIG won 30 or 30 lawsuits, proving that in each and every case the owner/operator Caused the gun to fire by causing the trigger to be pulled.
They only ever had problems before they did the upgrade, because the triggers were too heavy. Not once since then have they ever been proven to be unsafe. 30 of 20 lawsuits prove that too. Nobody has ever shown in any way how the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled. (In a rational and possible way. ANY gun can go off in some crazy, weird, almost impossible way and no mechanical device will ever be 100% fail safe).
@@deucedeuce1572facts. Lol if they dont loke the sig. bro dont buy it. Let us buy it maybe pricing will drop lol. Even thought the gun isnt that expensive.
@@elgayetasno it didn’t they were all operator induced discharges it’s just that the p320 has a really light trigger so it goes off when a father lands on it
My Glocks don't need videos like this to alleviate customers concerns.
They did once upon a time. In a previous generation where LE moved from DAO or DASA or revolvers to striker fired lots of ND's happened and there were plenty of heresay and investigations.
@shottec3327 the difference being though, the glock was never firing without the trigger being pulled.
@watchdog_mccoy_5.7x28
Cops had enough NDs from super comparably lightweight troggers that entire states mandated a heavier trogger modification... and it STILL say cops NDing.
99% lf the NDs with p320s have been from cops holstering with an obstruction in their holster.
And much like when they violate somebody's 1st, 2nd or 4th amendment rights, their internal investigations always show that their officers did nothing wrong.
I ONLY trust external investigations when it comes to NDs with the police. And they almost universally show incompetence, not weapons failures.
This specific issue was only a problem on the first 6 months of p320s. And those were corrected FOR FREE almost a decade ago. The only police p320s with this issue are those that have neglected a recall for over a decade. Which is MORE negligent than having an obstruction in the holster.
@@shottec3327except none of those NDs were the fault of the guns design it was user error
Although the glock never had an ND/AD situation... there are more than enough cases where a rapid unscheduled disassembly occurred.... it took until the Gen 3 to fix that issue.
You can't do a jump cut and then prove there was a round in there
I had to due to time constraints. With both pistols you can see me make my 10th impact the clip slows down to normal speed and then proceed to fire. On the m18 the firearm jammed and you literally watch me clear the malfunction in real time and then chamber the 3rd round and fire it.
And you sir can't tie your shoes.... Clown...
@@RogueGinger 🧢
@@RogueGingerthen don't do the video as a short? Just a thought.
@@evanshannonyou know shorts are one the easiest money makers on TH-cam right? There’s a reason this a short and not a video. Why would he stop making short videos that inform and bring in views
Did he beat it with the safety on 😂
Yeah, with the m18 the safety was on. I did this because from my understanding it would discharge with and without the safety on. Since I had a p320 compact without the manual safety. I tested both theory’s. Neither discharged. Someone asked me to redo this video anyway. I will redo it with the safety off on the m18.
Like i sind with safe on this Video makes no sense
Yes on the first one
@@RogueGingeryea don’t use a plastic table lol 😂
@@sandrierdi9757 the safety doesnt stop the type of drop malfuncfion, the safety stops the trigger from being pulled, it does not stop an external force from pushing the firing pin into the round that is already chambered
I carry a Sig and love it. Just like anything else in this world, the second someone has a problem and it goes viral, people take it as gospel and run with it. Sig has already corrected any issues just like every other manufacturer has fixed their issues. Find out what works for you and carry that. Do your own research. Just don't go off of one or two stories you read in a gun forum. And to this creator, it seems like you really did an honest and impartial test without interjecting your opinion one way or the other. That is very commendable and rare nowadays. That has earned you a follow from me my brother.
The issues likely occurs when the firearm is falling and comes to an abrupt stop when it hits the floor. Hitting a stationary firearm with a mallet is not comparable for testing.
The trigger had too much mass and it would pull through when dropped and bang...
It's been resolved by redesign of the trigger and an added internal block of some sort. Can't Rembert what they called it.
There's a hammer test video out there done by Legally Armed America set up in the same way, and the early M18 did go off when struck on the backplate.
There's a few other drop test videos and it seems discharges only happen when struck in that area.
@@Vane_M4A1is that the first gen m18 before they knew if it end fixed the problem?
@@DesertGhostAZ Yeah, you can tell it's the early models with the tan controls.
Safety, mag release, slide release, etc.
@@Vane_M4A1what of the video of the sig going off while in that officers holster?
I have had 2 p320s one xfull and one xcompact for a couple years now and had no problems. Shot more than 2 thousand rounds through each. Great guns.
Same here !!
the way hes pulling on that slide got me on the edge of my seat but nice video!
Thanks for the support! 😎🇺🇸🦅
Own one. Dropped it on the hot spot. Never discharged.
Nice catch.
They fixed this within the year they released the M17 and M18 variants…😂
Haven’t seen any reports recently
@@RogueGinger bc there are none bud. The discharge issue got fixed not long after those variants were released. Mainly bc it kept happening in Army MP’s holsters. Lol I was still in when we got them but got out before the primary weapon change. Good pistols reliable to the end.
@@Joker-11B-SYLV Thank you for your service! I’ve enjoyed my 320’s and they’ve been extremely reliable!
@Joker-11B-SYLV A lot of people are adamant, even today, that the P320 has drop safety issues. Unfortunately there are recent examples, but I stand to believe that someone could have proved where the mechanical issue is by now, if there is a mechanical issue
@@Pseudo_Sage but the primary issue has been fixed. Any firearm can go off if dropped and cocked. But isn’t happening as often? Absolutely not.
Thank you for your time and tests I appreciate you sharing!
Thank you for the support! 😎🇺🇸🦅 means the world!
@@RogueGinger my pleasure
Half the discharge videos posted are drop failures that detonate by the beaver tail landing first, with the barrel upwards. From what slowmos I've seen, it seems the trigger is literally pulled by gravity, since the first models all had metal triggers with significantly more mass than plastic ones.
Well I would like to point something out that as a current military officer, (SSG) the first Sig when he was beating it the safety was on if you look back you can clearly hear the safety being disengaged, the second Sig never has any problems when it comes to accidentally firing
@@jozachj5019 Yeah, with the m18 the safety was on. I did this because from my understanding it would discharge with and without the safety on. Since I had a p320 compact without the manual safety. I tested both theory’s. Neither discharged. Someone asked me to redo this video anyway. I will redo it with the safety off on the m18.
@@RogueGinger Appreciate that.
@@deucedeuce1572 here’s the redo
th-cam.com/users/shortseNRhXzFgdhI?si=jciyq3zrcshuJxJO
Hold on, this doesn't pass the sniff test. I spent 20 years in the military and absolutely zero non-commissioned officers (which, as a SSG, you would be) would refer to themself as a military officer. You would say you were an NCO. Only commissioned officers are referred to as simply officers... 🤔
@@RogueGinger thank you for redoing it I was just looking out for ya since I’m also a creator and I just wanted to help root out all the haters
From what I've seen it not the hitting on the back of the slide but when dropped on its back the inertia and light recoil spring allows the slide to come back a little and sorta slam fire when returning.
Love the 320, beautiful handgun
@@Zarumas_Vellendrik 100% agree 😎🦅🇺🇸
The common misconception about the P320 discharging is left over from a years old recall that did happen, but since then SIG has managed to manufacture all of them without this defect and without this tendency to discharge. My buddy owns a 320 compact for several years now and it has never failed him.
30 lawsuits about the guns going off by themselves and SIG won all 30. They proved in each and every single case that the owner/operator caused the gun to fire, because they caused the trigger to be pulled. People hear about a lawsuit though and assume their guilt. Then they remain willingly ignorant of the lawsuits outcome, because they don't care about the Truth.
Glock has been sued over 1000x, but people assume them to be safe. They even have the term "Glock Leg" and also the "Glock Kaboom". I actually don't like SIG as a company... and I don't like the people that run the company either. If the Truth has to be said though, then the Truth has to be said. Nobody has ever proved how a working, unmodified or unbroken SIG P320 can go off without the trigger being pulled. (since the upgrade of course).
@@deucedeuce1572 I had no idea! Thanks for enlightening me!
I love everyone is caught up with the jump cut, never mind there’s a million videos of people doing this with a 320 and it not going off
Actually...likely only 100 people whined about it. Nice try. Yet, no one blamed operator error in2017. Weird. Let's not forget about Glock Leg, either.
@@piratecat990 actually…I didn’t say any specific number of people whined about it. Nice try.
Million videos of them going off as well🤷🏽♂️
@@charles90407 No there aren't. You're just making shit up and I'm calling BS. I've tried to find videos for YEARS. I've actively sought them out and in all this time I found one. That's just not enough to trust and I would bet my life that he couldn't do it with a gun that I tested to be mechanically sound before the test. It's mechanically impossible without the gun being either damaged or assembled incorrectly.
Of 30 lawsuits, SIG won ALL 30 of them, because in each and every single case it was proven that the owner/operator Caused the gun to fire by Causing the trigger to be pulled. Not once though has anyone ever showed how (an upgraded) P320 could ever go off without the trigger being pulled.
You hear about the lawsuits, assume their guilt and then repeat lies and rumors as fact, even making shit up as you go along.
Only recently dis SIG ever lose a lawsuit... but it had nothing to do with the guns going off without the trigger being pulled. It had to do with the P320 trigger being a short, light trigger pull and not having a manual safety. The jury ruled that SIG didn't do enough to stop people from accidentally pulling the triggers on their guns. It's a completely unjust lawsuit and it makes ALL gun companies responsible for the actions/mistakes of their customers.
Just google "Glock Leg". Sigs been sued 30 times and people assume them guilty... but Glocks been sued 1000x and people assume them to be safe. For every P320 accusation though, there's been over 300 Glock accusations.
Even if all 30 were the fault of the gun though, that would be only 1 in 100,000 guns... and if 10% of them were it would be 1 in every 1,000,000 guns... yet there were ZERO lawsuits won against them, because in each and every single case the trigger WAS pulled.
I felt like he was hitting me in the balls every time he hit that sig with a hammer!
You had the safety on in the first test
I redid it
th-cam.com/users/shortseNRhXzFgdhI?si=v3K8NHy3_i9xlbUE
The P320’s were only found to fire by being struck at a very specific angle. I believe it was an upward slant striking the lower rear of the slide.
There is also multiple videos online of them firing without any input whatsoever. Obviously do as you please, however, I will personally never trust, nor own one.
I think the issue has been resolved.
@@ashtonsimms2181 I haven’t seen any reports recently of accidental discharge.
@@RogueGingerWhat the fuck do you classify as recent? Like days? Cause theres MULTIPLE news articles "recently"
@@Rob_Nastythis issue is years old bub
Even if the issue is resolved now its still embarassing that sig ever put out a gun with this issue.
@@Captain_Howdy99 completely agree.
From my understanding, it wasn't about the striker, it was about the trigger being slightly too heavy, so when falling on the striker, the gun would go off due to the mass of the trigger.
Brings a whole new meaning to the dead blow
For the 320 to fire without the trigger being moved to the rear, 3 safety mechanisms would have to fail at the same time.
There's a secondary sear notch, so IF the sear were to lose control of the striker, the second notch would catch it (unless the trigger is pulled). There is also a striker blocking safety that wouldn't allow the striker to contact the primer on a chambered round (unless the trigger is pulled).
So, if your 320 "goes off all by itself" buy a freakin' lottery ticket! You beat the odds!
I have carried a P-320 Compact in .45 ACP for 2 years, round chambered, without issue. Thousands of rounds fired and no malfunctions. It's also really easy to shoot well.
They probably fixed it now but it used to discharge and we’ll never forget that 😂
True, at the begining Sig Sauer p320 law enforcement and civilian versions, will discharge on its own on the very first models, due to the purchase demands since sig sauer adquired the us army and usmc contract, sig sauer cutt corners with cheap and not reliable material, on the first models that were purchased by law enforcement agencies and civilians, causing discharges on these sig sauer p320.
Many Law Enforcement agencies and civilians git rid of the sig sauer p320 and went back to Glock or MP smith wesson. After that flaw sig sauer made a recall and fix the problem but now its to late for.many customers they wont trust sig saier again.
@@RUDYLOVE72 oh shut up your not speaking for everyone.
I’ve carried the m18 for a few years now, one of the best I’ve ever owned, shoots awesome, feels great, optic ready
It’s a lot more accurate then I am
And the trigger is amazing
And it has a manual safety
You have to angle it downward not straight down it’s already been proven that they do discharge
@@bradleylabrosse5092 someone’s already asked me to redo it at an angle. Stay tuned for redo video.
I’ve edc a 320 for years. I own every variant of the 320 and 226. Never had a problem.
That’s is the most cartoon sounding gun every
😂
I've got 2, one I carry and one I shoot at competitions twice a month (with no mods btw). No problems, no complaints. I love their triggers and the way the grips feel. Very comfortable, accurate and reliable.
I have the SIG P320 VTAC and it is absolutely amazing I’d love to see it be tested like this
I built mine about 7 years ago in the garage, carry it live everyday and I have yet to see any issues other than the stove pipe when I'm not gripping the weapon tight enough.
So the issue with the 320 going off was fixed years ago. The ones we hear about today are either ones that didn't get the upgrade because the owner didn't return the pistol, or as the majority of the cases have been proven to be, the user shot themselves and blamed the gun.
Why did you cut away after shooting it
Sig’s website has a way for you to check the serial number on your P320 so you can verify if it was part of the lots that had the defect that caused them to fire when dropped.
If you want to safely do this sort of test, pull the bullet out of the case, pour out the propellant. Then you can load the empty brass with the primer still in tact and if it fires from the strikes it will ignite the primer; but there is no chance of a projectile ending up somewhere you didnt intend. Your hand could easily slip, the impact of the hammer on the back could turn the muzzle, there could be a rock on the ground the projectile ricochets off of etc... no bullet, no oopsies...
The reason they would go off is because they would fall with the bbl facing up and the original triggers weight enough and the trigger break was light enough that the trigger would get pulled back from the impact so it was like someone pulled the trigger
Like the way you placed part of your finger over the barrel when racking the slide clearing a stoppage...nice.
The culprit was the original P320 trigger. The physical weight of that part was heavy enough to overcome the pull weight required for the pistol to fire when dropped. The whole weight in motion physics thing, lol.
You caught your own brass!!! Wow!!!
I didn’t believe those pistols fired on their own until one day at the range in front of witnesses I inserted a loaded magazine into the M17, and as soon as the slide went forward it discharged, my finger was nowhere near the trigger. I really like the pistol. I sent it to SIG, they had it for a little while and I got it back. I was told the problem could not be replicated. It hasn’t happened again and that’s been about 3-4 years ago.
What you're describing is a common ND. You most likely had your finger in the trigger guard when you released the slide. Extremely common for new shooters to do this.
I’ve got 4 of them. Totally one of my favorite pistols.
The so called problem happened about 5 or 6 years ago. Even though Sig said that they couldn’t duplicate it, they offered an update. Since the update, no 320’s have been sold that could possibly fire on its own. The M18, having a manual safety was never in question.
the trigger has its own safety. Modern handguns will not go off unless your finger disengages the trigger safety because the trigger safety is holding the firing pin safety which prevents firing pin to move.
There is no trigger safety on a P320. You can add one if you buy an Agency Arms trigger, but they don't come with them.
People aren't claiming that they're firing, because the trigger is pulled though, either by a finger, kinetic energy or something else. They're saying that the striker slips off the sear and fires without the trigger being pulled. No one's ever proved that to be true though... and SIG won 30 out of 30 lawsuits, because in every single case they proved that the owner/operator Caused the trigger to be pulled. People did dumb things with their P320's, caused negligent discharges and then tried to blame SIG and sue them for millions of dollars.
Believe it or not though, in one case an aftermarket trigger with a trigger safety caused an accidental discharge. The pin drifted out the side of the trigger, so when the person went to reholster his gun, the pin snagged on the holster and that caused the trigger to be pulled as he pushed the gun into the holster.
Stick the slide in a vice. Pull on the grip to the side. *Click*
If youre strong enough you can torque it by hand and set them off. They are pretty drop safe tho.
P320 i a very good pistol. I carried a P229 for years on the job. The 320 i a little lighter and is a good pistol Accurate, reliable, rugged. You can't go wrong.
I carry my sig p320 every day pointed straight at my fun parts. Not sure if I have the og version with the problem or not I've had it for a few years. I do know it's a quality handgun and I've gotten great at shooting it.
My understanding is that the drop safety issue was caused by inertia pulling the trigger. By bracing the pistol on a table, you might not be allowing inertia to take hold. Possibly try again, but instead hold the pistol, and instead of a live round, pull the bullet and use a primed but otherwise empty case.
That was the old P320's before the upgrade. That's no longer a claim. The claim is that they go off without the trigger being pulled (like while in their holster).
In 30 of 30 lawsuits though, SIG proved that in each and every case the owner/operator Caused the gun to go off by somehow causing the trigger to be pulled. The claims are never that the gun went off from falling though (by the trigger being pulled by inertia).
There may be a newer case though, but I don't have any information on it. I don't think it's been settled. In any case though, even if all 30 were the fault of the gun. That would be 1 in 100,000 P320's. That's not too bad an it doesn't make them really unsafe like people claim. If even 10% of the cases were true, then that would be 1 in 1,000,000 gun... and that would make them just as safe as any other gun.
However... in 30 cases... NONE of them were ever proven to be the fault of the gun. If even one of those cases ever proved the gun to be at fault though. It would literally be like 1 in 3,500,000 guns. That's going by old numbers though and they've probably sold at least 5 million of them by now.
@@deucedeuce1572
Yeah, I phrased it the way I did because I own an M17 and have handled hundreds of P320s of varying styles, and post upgrade, every one I've seen has had the firing pin safety, which is that little triangular tab beside the striker. I can't figure out how both the sear would slip and the firing pin safety would be disengaged without the trigger having been pulled. I was trying to think of how he could get the trigger to pull from that.
The Sig 320 only jams when it has the curved trigger (weighs more/therefore more affected by gravity) and when dropped downwards at a 45° angle to land on the back of the slide flat on the ground. (Barrel facing up to blow ur nuts off). Sig originally tried to pretend it wasn’t an issue, and then after a million people flipped shit, they issued a recall and fixed the problem with multiple safety features.
That's before the recall and upgrade. They've been tested over and over since then and in 10's of thousands of tests (if not 100s of thousands) they've never fired a single time, no matter what angle they were dropped at. Agency Arms also has P320's that they use for drop testing, both with and without their triggers... and in many countless 1000s of their own tests they've never had any P320 go off from being dropped.
its not the force on the slide that caused the 320 to fire. it was the gun landing on the frame and hammer at the same time, causing the hammer to be pressed by inertia.
Sig pistols always start like that but they are really good at correcting mistakes
Always make sure the pistol you buy has a firing pin block safety. This will ensure its not just going to go off if you drop it, or bump it just right.
It’s the inertia of the the trigger, that made the sigs go off. holding it against the table makes the test useless. This test is for a sear surface issue like a 1911 or REM 700 would have. Which when hit with a hammer like this do have a likelihood to go off. The sig issue is like hitting a hammer handle to put it into the head. The inertia of the trigger is greater than the spring weights and it had the inertia/momentum to move through the springs.
I carry the compact p320 and I’m glad that didn’t malfunction but that first one has me worried.
I like how he say the safety on when he was hitting the first pistol. Like come on man, do it without the safety on, and no jump cuts.😅😅
I got you. Check this out
th-cam.com/users/shortseNRhXzFgdhI?si=v3K8NHy3_i9xlbUE
Did the m18 have problems and if so, was it with or without the safety engaged?
@RogueGinger unfortunately, this is not an accurate drop test. During a drop, all components in the gun are accelerating under gravity. When the gun drops onto the end cap area, there’s a sudden deceleration of the frame and slide, but the trigger is just under spring a small
amount of spring tension meaning it can decelerate less and move rearward which can release the striker.
Your test doesn’t simulate this. Instead, your test is attempting to accelerate the components in the other direction and is limited by the table. Shock waves do set off these guns, it’s the rearward movement of the trigger.
Here’s an analogy. If you you were to reverse a dump truck into a concrete wall (drop gun on floor), the occupants and debris in the bed would fly to the rear of their areas… the driver would press pressed against the seat and the dirt would slam into the door. That’s like the trigger sliding rearward. However, the test in the video is like parking the dump truck at the wall, nose first, and smashing the rear with a Honda Civic (the hammer). Nothing will happen to the dirt or occupants since the energy is transferred from the dump truck frame to the wall.
All these people saying “ it’s a drop test”… no it’s not. Not anymore. Now there’s people saying the gun randomly discharges while doing nothing but sitting in a holster. So it’s NOT a drop test. It’s a test to show if the trigger assembly will release when there is any sort of impact with the firearm.
For safety sakes if you ever try this type of test again. Take your cartridge and remove the projectile and dump the powder charge. Leaving the brass case with a primer. Trust me, you'll hear the primer do it's job, and you eliminate any potential damger. The way you are doing it is unnecessarily risky.
Good to see an updated test and the fact they actually fixed the issue but that said I still want an additional trigger safety.
Agency Arms makes an excellent P320 trigger with the trigger safety on it. I'd own one myself if I could afford it.
I actually like that it doesn’t have one I would prefer manual safety.
The two P320 accidental discharges I know about both happened to left-handed officers seated in their cruiser with seat belts fastened. Their agency is considering changing to H&K.
Hey man that’s good stuff!
Thanks!
That is not the problem. The trigger was too wide compared to the trigger guard (touching the holster). New models have addressed this. Problem solved. What you are proving (sort of) is the firing pin block works.
It’s a QC error, not a design flaw. The sellouts cannot keep up with contracts and civilian market at the same time. I actually was shocked to hear about the M17/18 that went off in an Airman’s holster a few weeks back; you’d think that to their highest bidder, the military marketed model would have fewest issues to keep their contract. But that’s still under investigation.
They fixed that issue
It’s the first ones that came off the line that did that.
Get one of those and try this again. There’s many videos of that gun going off in holsters
Yes but there is a lot of people that don’t pay attention to when a video was released and think it still goes off that’s why he’s doing this.
Do it with the original Ruger lcp. it's a common gun alot of people carry and there were recalls on the early 2008 models for unsafe discharges. Id be curious to see how well they fixed them.
The question is if that’s a LEO specific or civilian weapon. Because there is absolutely a difference. The LEO version isn’t an off the shelf gun and has a different trigger/pin setup than the civilian version.
I am not sure if that hammer copies the conditions properly, but still a good video imo. I am considering buying one of those. But I'll probably go for a sig p226
I haven't gotten mine to discharge accidently either, I loaded it with a few blanks and intentionally dropped it three times while riding on a dirt path at a range, shoulder height first 2 times at 15, 35, then at 65 in a toss that made me worried I could of actually damaged it. It sure as f bounced but no discharge. I did the tests cuz I heard rumors of them discharging accidently. The M18 seems solid enough I do not believe any accidental discharge occurred without the trigger catching on something. I was asked to try it with a g2 Taurus and an SCCY which went off at 35, and 70.
The "drop safe" problem is fixed and has been for years. If you go buy a 320 from a store it is no less drop safe than literally any other big brand manufacturers. I don't understand how this is still a debate going on.
Love my p320. Never had any problems with it, with or without the flat trigger
Agency Arms makes an excellent trigger with the trigger safety like a Glock. It's far, far better than a Glock trigger though and you can't even tell the safety is there when you shoot it. I hate how Glocks trigger safety is thin like a blade and digs into your finger, but luckily the Agency trigger's not like that at all.
This issue isn't impacts to the back plate? The issue is sloppy manufacturing leading to sloppy slide/frame mating. Sig had Post-VUP P320's that had 1/4 of a mm of sear engagement. When the gun is constantly jostled in a duty holster that secures the gun by it's slide while the grip full of ammo can swing around all day, eventually the striker can slip. The striker safety is poorly designed and doesn't stop a slipped striker.
Sig quietly fixed their striker engagement around 2019
Just so you know, the p320 did, in fact, go off by itself. This is recorded happening to a good number of people, and sig had to offer to repair all models with the faulty parts.
It has since been fixed, but it did happen, and sig absolutely tried to lie about it.
Yes the old one and sig said to send them in for a voluntary fix.
The original 320's were the ones that would fire like that, you have to hit them at a specific angle for it to work.
What I’ve heard is the models with the external safeties don’t have the AD issue. Would be interested to see this done with the other versions.
I only question the validity because the table is not rigid, therefore it absorbs much of the recoil. The other videos I've seen, with contradictory results, have tested using solid benches. This detail, in my opinion, is important because it more closely mimics a securely mounted holster on a gun belt better than a flexible plastic folding table.
The thing that sets it off isn’t being hit on the striker it’s the inertia from being droppped, I own 2 Sigs one is a 365XL with a manual safety but I still have no idea why Sig won’t just use a trigger safety, it bothers no one
I have a p320 full size and it was my service carry, never had an issue. Hell, I don't think I ever had a stovepipe, jam, etc.
The actual problem is that inertia pulls the trigger. So pointing it down as you did it wont go off. If it falls facing up, thats when it happens.
I look past the cuts but the area of concern was an impact on the rear sight area as if it was dropped. The old striker system was flawed. The new striker is not.
I’ve heard of a lot of things the most useful piece of inflammation I heard was to check the lot that your gun was made in and see if any guns in that group have had an accidental miss fire and if so think about buying a new one or switching platforms
I think the issue comes from dropping the pistol when the rear of the gun strikes first because it can allow the striker to slip and cause it to go off
Thsts not the problem. The problem is the trigger pivking up momentum as it falls. Then, with impact, the trigger keeps moving.
The issue has been rectified, including having all sold firearms fixed with a recall
You know thats a double sided mallet right? The red side is non-marring and will still transfer the energy without damaging the metal... id love to see what the back of the slide looks like now.. up close.
You could pull the round out of the case. The primer would still pop while not being “live”
Yeah the edit cuts aren’t going to help you make your point but I do respect it.
Garand thumb done a 20 min video on this yesterday. Was painful to watch the drop test of probably about 30k worth of pistols and I reckon about $5-7k worth of damages.
Was quite conclusive though. Respect to the efforts though bro. Rather toxic community rn