The policy has mutated further since YM/YPM: there are quasi or adopted civil service departments nowadays, e.g. the Environment Agency, which is "sponsored" by DEFRA. Funnily enough, it doesn't stop the EA being subject to the tiny pay increases awarded to lowly civil service ranks.
Are they not all dead now? Such a shame as all the actors play the parts so brilliantly but he's one of my favourites. No scene ever has filler and every joke is detailed and well written.
@@wkcia yeah, at the end it's not the pay raise itself jim had issue with, he just needed something that he could pass through cabinet without it reflecting badly on him. he could've easily let dorothy look into the proposal and find the faults in it but then the civil service will keep fighting him on it, so it was easier for him to accept the partnership with humphrey so both of them can benefit.
@@qichen85 Oxford used to have 4 degree classes instead of the usual 3, so a 2nd from Oxford was the same as a "normal" 2.i, a 3rd was the same as a 2.ii and a 4th was the same as a 3rd. These days they just use the same classification as everyone else.
At 4:32 this line from Sir Humphrey is true today as it was back in 1986 when this aired. The current Cabinet Secretary pockets around £205,000 a year, whereas the current Prime Minister (Rishi Sunak as of Jan 4th 2023) pockets £157,000 (even though he and his wife are currently worth £730 million).
You know what I love about this? No one's the "Good Guy." Humphrey isn't trying to screw Hacker, Hacker isn't trying to best Humphrey. Hacker KNOWS that Humphrey is doing this for himself, and gets something out of it in rerurn. In the worst possible way, everybody wins. Except, you know, the British public.😂
6%?!!!! Currently as a local government oue pay rise is 2% which isn't even inflation. Therefore where pay isnt in line with the civil service (usually 20% below) they have to rewrite the job specification....civil service is a very well paid.
"Inflation in the UK averaged 4.7% in the 1960s, 14.0 % in the 1970s, and 5.6% in the 1980s." This series started in 1980. So this is probably around inflation expectations, I'd say even somewhat below, based on the above.
I have ate in a few London clubs which people like Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey ate at, and their food was always superb. Thankfully I was not the one paying for it - as the menu was hugely expensive. Bowl of Parsnip Soup came to £20.
"No my dear Humphrey." That's actually really funny and cute from Sir Arnold. Sir Arnold is Plagueis, Sir Humphrey is Palpatine and Hacker is Vader who will then be dropped under the bus every single time. 🤣
Except, Palpatine slayed Plagueis. Here, Arnold has retired, but Humphrey still needs his advice and give him honours in return. The late stage of their lives will feature comfortable retirement, possibly drinking to how they fooled their respective ministers time and again, and chuckling good-naturedly on the only occasional victory by the politicians.
I think that was part of the script which the writers Jonathan Lynn and Antony Jay thought they could slip in, and the viewers and audience wouldn't understand.
Also according to the book of the series the idea of linking MP pay to civil service pay and the index linked pensions was also a real one introduced in the Thatcher era and announced just as Parliament rose for the summer recess/ holiday so got no publicity.
_"Then you double the Outstanding Merit Awards. I take it that people still get them?"_ _"Oh yes, everyone"_ If everyone gets an outstanding merit award it's not very outstanding, is it? Just like Hacker said about Honors in the Civil Service, they just "come up with the rations"
You can find this sort of idiocy in pretty much any corporate environment. For example, a common high grade in staff performance appraisals is "Exceeds Expectations". HR would expect bosses to discuss with their employees how to achieve higher grades for the next period. But the point is, if those are the expectations to get an "Exceeds Expectations", how can those expectations have been exceeded in the first place (rather than merely having been met)? You only have to open your eyes a little to see the insanity behind what we call modern life.
@@lightyagami1752Doesn't seem like a particularly modern extravagance to me. It's not like giving people titles and honors for doing next to nothing is a particularly new practice. Consider the existence of Noble titles with attached salaries but zero formal duties, for example.
The dining rooms where Sir Humphrey and Sir Arnold ate at would probably cost regular people in the 1980s about most of their weekly wage if they wanted to eat in them.
Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey really are the most conniving snobs aren't they?. All joking aside true civil servants like these guys and their underlings are literally untouchable in terms of accountability or competency. They've got very good salaries, a crown guaranteed, inflation linked, defined benefit pension and if they are high enough up the chain - they can guarantee a directorship or two at a number of companies when they "retire" at 60.
This is from _Yes, Prime Minister._ In its previous avatar as _Yes, Minister,_ it was Sir Arnold Robinson who was Cabinet Secretary. Sir Humphrey became Cabinet Secretary after Sir Arnold retired. It is thus that he seeks advice from his predecessor. The eighth episode of the third season, called "Party Games", marks the transition of Jim Hacker from a cabinet minister to prime minister.
@@peterkroger7112 I have been told by family and friends that I speak a version of this. Not quite as posh as Sir Arnold, but more like Sir Humphrey here.
Their private members club would be the best place for lunch - I was lucky to actually dine in one or two clubs as a friend of a member some years before the pandemic
Yes they are - however the wine is left over from the main meal - this happens a lot in high class private dining rooms, where you can request the wine to be left on the table right until the end. Happens in The Lansdowne Club often in London
@@jstalk1 True - also begs the question why didn't they speak about this at the start of their meal? We join them at the end of their meal with the cheese and biscuits served after dessert - so why did Sir Humphrey not speak about this when they were getting their soup for starters? In fact in Yes Minister, in a similar lunch meeting, we saw Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey eating their starters, which for them was melons.
@@johnking5174 i think the logic is twofold. 1: the start of the meal was Humphrey explaining everything to Arnold, which we the audience had already seen and didn't need a refresher, so they just cut to the part that was relevant to the plot. 2: The writers were really proud of subtly working in a "would you like some cheese with that whine?" into the scene and didn't want to waste time.
@@johnking5174this kind of financial chicanery occurs all across major business both public and private. you don’t climb to the level these characters are in society (both the civil servants and elected officials) without understanding the game.
According to the book of the series this actually became real government policy regarding museums.
Lmao
Most IMPRESSIVE
The policy has mutated further since YM/YPM: there are quasi or adopted civil service departments nowadays, e.g. the Environment Agency, which is "sponsored" by DEFRA. Funnily enough, it doesn't stop the EA being subject to the tiny pay increases awarded to lowly civil service ranks.
It is how British Museums now work yes.
To the rest of us this was a comedy, to the government it was a How To manual.
RIP John Nettleton (d.July 12th 2023) who played Arnold. Terrific actor who played the part so brilliantly.
Oh dear, so said but he lived a long life, 94 years.
Oh no really i had no idea, how sad.
Chris
Sad to hear - as said played this part so amazingly.....
Are they not all dead now? Such a shame as all the actors play the parts so brilliantly but he's one of my favourites. No scene ever has filler and every joke is detailed and well written.
@@gordonchard6243 Yes, all the main cast members have died. I think only the actress who played Hacker's wife is still alive
The Prime Minister was professionally guided by an expert.
Manipulated (in laymans term)
In fairness, he was very much in on it at the end… you can sense the horror when they work together on something 🤣
@@wkcia yeah, at the end it's not the pay raise itself jim had issue with, he just needed something that he could pass through cabinet without it reflecting badly on him. he could've easily let dorothy look into the proposal and find the faults in it but then the civil service will keep fighting him on it, so it was easier for him to accept the partnership with humphrey so both of them can benefit.
The mass bribe at the end is simultaneously hysterical and aggravating.
Also undoubtedly very effective.
Excellent.
@@danieldickson8591 Precisely.
“…After all, this is a partnership.”
"A second at Oxford counts as an upper second" Brilliant!
At least!
What does that mean actually?
@@qichen85 Oxford used to have 4 degree classes instead of the usual 3, so a 2nd from Oxford was the same as a "normal" 2.i, a 3rd was the same as a 2.ii and a 4th was the same as a 3rd. These days they just use the same classification as everyone else.
At 4:32 this line from Sir Humphrey is true today as it was back in 1986 when this aired. The current Cabinet Secretary pockets around £205,000 a year, whereas the current Prime Minister (Rishi Sunak as of Jan 4th 2023) pockets £157,000 (even though he and his wife are currently worth £730 million).
So they should. They are required to be far more competent.
@@ilcorvo9559 They're not, though...
The current pm should get zero no one elected him
@@basillah7650 Considering he is married to a billionaire and is a multi millionaire himself, I fully 100% agree.
@@basillah7650 He got elected by the members of his political party, same as every other PM ever.
Thin end of the wedge. As he’s slicing cheese….perfect.
Arnold can make Humphrey look innocent. Brrrr....
Sir Arnold gives the impression of a man who has not only played the game for a long time, but who wrote many of the rules.
@@danieldickson8591 not wrong, he knows exactly how the game is played and thus how to get what he wants out of it
Sir Arnold, please!
You know what I love about this? No one's the "Good Guy."
Humphrey isn't trying to screw Hacker, Hacker isn't trying to best Humphrey. Hacker KNOWS that Humphrey is doing this for himself, and gets something out of it in rerurn. In the worst possible way, everybody wins. Except, you know, the British public.😂
After all 'this is a partnership'
And really, isn't that what good governance is all about? 😂
Arnold is a powerhouse
One of the best fly-on-the-wall documentaries ever filmed
Sir Humphrey was brilliant, but Sir Arnold was the true master of the game 🙂
RIP, Sir Arnold. John Nettleton, 1929 - 2023.
6%?!!!! Currently as a local government oue pay rise is 2% which isn't even inflation. Therefore where pay isnt in line with the civil service (usually 20% below) they have to rewrite the job specification....civil service is a very well paid.
"Inflation in the UK averaged 4.7% in the 1960s, 14.0 % in the 1970s, and 5.6% in the 1980s."
This series started in 1980. So this is probably around inflation expectations, I'd say even somewhat below, based on the above.
My mother is retired civil servant. Her pension is more than my IT expert cousins.
But that's b4 tax
I believe the 6% was already taking into account the inflation
Sir Arnold - my favourite character. Fabulous acting.
Damn, those cheese plate with red wine looks pretty nice.
I have ate in a few London clubs which people like Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey ate at, and their food was always superb. Thankfully I was not the one paying for it - as the menu was hugely expensive. Bowl of Parsnip Soup came to £20.
@John King Any particular recommendations?
@@johnking5174 it should counts as robbery, but then i remember who was their regulars were.
@@jalpat2272 You are right. These are not the type of places I would eat often in. I was taken there by a friend of a friend, who paid.
“Correcting for inflation, that should do it.”
A big correcting needed now in 2023
"No my dear Humphrey." That's actually really funny and cute from Sir Arnold.
Sir Arnold is Plagueis, Sir Humphrey is Palpatine and Hacker is Vader who will then be dropped under the bus every single time. 🤣
Except, Palpatine slayed Plagueis. Here, Arnold has retired, but Humphrey still needs his advice and give him honours in return. The late stage of their lives will feature comfortable retirement, possibly drinking to how they fooled their respective ministers time and again, and chuckling good-naturedly on the only occasional victory by the politicians.
Plagueis and Palpatine are amateurs compared Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey.
Wait, the best part is ministers only get pay rises while civil servants get rises in allowances. Hacker got fooled again.
I think that was part of the script which the writers Jonathan Lynn and Antony Jay thought they could slip in, and the viewers and audience wouldn't understand.
Such incredible writing.
The series practically wrote itself based on reality. 😅
Sad to read John Nettleton has died - great actor.
Also according to the book of the series the idea of linking MP pay to civil service pay and the index linked pensions was also a real one introduced in the Thatcher era and announced just as Parliament rose for the summer recess/ holiday so got no publicity.
Sir Arnold was the true GOAT.
_"Then you double the Outstanding Merit Awards. I take it that people still get them?"_
_"Oh yes, everyone"_
If everyone gets an outstanding merit award it's not very outstanding, is it? Just like Hacker said about Honors in the Civil Service, they just "come up with the rations"
Sad thing is it is nearly 100% true.
You can find this sort of idiocy in pretty much any corporate environment. For example, a common high grade in staff performance appraisals is "Exceeds Expectations". HR would expect bosses to discuss with their employees how to achieve higher grades for the next period. But the point is, if those are the expectations to get an "Exceeds Expectations", how can those expectations have been exceeded in the first place (rather than merely having been met)?
You only have to open your eyes a little to see the insanity behind what we call modern life.
@@lightyagami1752Doesn't seem like a particularly modern extravagance to me. It's not like giving people titles and honors for doing next to nothing is a particularly new practice. Consider the existence of Noble titles with attached salaries but zero formal duties, for example.
Can't stop looking at that delicious cheese
BBC canteen did well for them - real cheese, real wine, all from the BBC Television Centre canteen
lots 'n lots of calories and mainly fat. Mind you, looking at it isn't a problem; just eating it.
The dining rooms where Sir Humphrey and Sir Arnold ate at would probably cost regular people in the 1980s about most of their weekly wage if they wanted to eat in them.
Amazing how something can be this funny and depressing at the same time...
Mycroft and Sherlock at it.
More like Mycroft and Moriarty
Hey it's the guy from Demolition man
Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey really are the most conniving snobs aren't they?. All joking aside true civil servants like these guys and their underlings are literally untouchable in terms of accountability or competency. They've got very good salaries, a crown guaranteed, inflation linked, defined benefit pension and if they are high enough up the chain - they can guarantee a directorship or two at a number of companies when they "retire" at 60.
Jeez i don't think I've ever received a pay raise just a different job.
Wow 6% was a "small" raise...
@@_Ekaros rarely is inflation and raises even marginally linked
@@_Ekaros well the 6% includes the inflarion already
The MPs last 'raise' in the UK was 10%, but that was only on the surface of it....
A masterpiece
Note that at the end he's sitting next to the PM, when he usually sits opposite him...
Well observed
Rip Mr. Nettleton.
RIP Sir Arnold.
RIP John Nettleton
So, there was someone advising Sir Humphrey Appleby? I always thought HE was the irritating know-it-all.
This is from _Yes, Prime Minister._ In its previous avatar as _Yes, Minister,_ it was Sir Arnold Robinson who was Cabinet Secretary. Sir Humphrey became Cabinet Secretary after Sir Arnold retired. It is thus that he seeks advice from his predecessor. The eighth episode of the third season, called "Party Games", marks the transition of Jim Hacker from a cabinet minister to prime minister.
I love that posh accent.
RP - received pronunciation - an English accent without a trace of where it could be from in England.
@@johnking5174 I know. Formerly also known as BBC-English.
@@peterkroger7112 I have been told by family and friends that I speak a version of this. Not quite as posh as Sir Arnold, but more like Sir Humphrey here.
If a pressure comes for pay raise interprets somewhere needs to repair hole into the water tanks.
Love the size of that cheese plate. Enough there to blow the Dutch Budget for cheese for centuries.
Their private members club would be the best place for lunch - I was lucky to actually dine in one or two clubs as a friend of a member some years before the pandemic
Is it just me or are they having cheese and wine in this scene? If so that's hilarious
Yes they are - however the wine is left over from the main meal - this happens a lot in high class private dining rooms, where you can request the wine to be left on the table right until the end. Happens in The Lansdowne Club often in London
@@johnking5174 That may be true, but I find it hilarious because they're having cheese and wine while Humphrey is whining to Sir Arnold. Lol
@@jstalk1 True - also begs the question why didn't they speak about this at the start of their meal? We join them at the end of their meal with the cheese and biscuits served after dessert - so why did Sir Humphrey not speak about this when they were getting their soup for starters? In fact in Yes Minister, in a similar lunch meeting, we saw Sir Arnold and Sir Humphrey eating their starters, which for them was melons.
@@johnking5174 i think the logic is twofold. 1: the start of the meal was Humphrey explaining everything to Arnold, which we the audience had already seen and didn't need a refresher, so they just cut to the part that was relevant to the plot. 2: The writers were really proud of subtly working in a "would you like some cheese with that whine?" into the scene and didn't want to waste time.
Holy
A whole lot of fiddling going on, just like real life
Rise not raise
These types of parasites exist in real life.
Yes, I have met them in the civil service. People think these characters are fictional. Sadly they are not.
@@johnking5174this kind of financial chicanery occurs all across major business both public and private. you don’t climb to the level these characters are in society (both the civil servants and elected officials) without understanding the game.