Isn't it impressive that Ryan can make the two best things about Screen Rant? These essays have great editing and are genuinely funny and insightful. Keep it up!
2018-present have easily been dark times for the movie industry. Movies with unique and original concepts are being overshadowed by mostly formulaic corporate franchise films, sequels, remakes, and reboots. I do hope that fortunately, with the success of movies like The Irishman and Parasite, creativity and originality will overtake the overflux of franchise films. The last year in my opinion where creativity and originality flowed was 2008 with movies like The Dark Knight and The Hurt Locker
When mediocre fan service movies get praised like they have been greatest achivement in cinema by crazy fans whom most cinema culture is limited to geeky movies, they inevitably get reaction and dislike from the people that gave their decades to cinema industry and made real masterpieces. MCU is fun and all, but it's absolutely nothing more than a series of popcorn flicks.
Yes. They are popcorn licks but some of them(at least those few i have watched) are much better as popcorn flicks than average popcorn flick. That's why calling them mediocre fan service movies is not fair.:P
people need to understand that marvel has created a problem in hollywood, people don't care about actors anymore but about franchises and all that as a big fan of super hero movies i can see the problem they are creating too
kids dont care bout actors, the marvel movies are the reason me and others have went back to watch some of these actors in other movies like infinitely polar bear (mark ruffalo & zoe saldana) and sherlock holmes (robert downey jr) Lucy (scarlett johannson) and even 21 bridges (chadwick boseman)
Martin is right, I want more movies like gone with the wind, Malcom , lord of the rings, taxi driver, blade runner 1 and 2 and other cinema masterpieces no more milked up franchises like marvel and Star Wars(which disney destroyed)
Disney is literally miking all of the popular IPs that they are acquiring, going beyond Marvel and Star Wars whether it's franchises like Toy Story, Incredibles, Home Alone, Pirates of the Caribbean getting unnecessary sequels or even their own animated original classics now becoming live-action unnecessarily, all of which are solely cash grabbing in nature and lack any artistic touch (with the exception of Brad Bird, one of the very few who actually gave a damn about his original classic). I think they are going to milk the Fox-acquired Marvel characters shamelessly too.
I think I get where Martin is coming from. He comes from a time when movies were made basically as an art form. To tell stories that can be complex, heartbreaking, heartwarming, make you laugh and have a good time. MCU movies are basically made for the money. I'm not saying they aren't entertaining, because they are, it's just that their recycles Quick Cash grabs
Cool Arrow90 thanks for articulating that. Even tho some are better than others none qualify as what I consider ‘art’. Now the majority of movies are superheroes, sequels and remakes of reboots because that’s where the money is
The thing is the Cinema isn't the world's main way of consuming media anymore. People tend to go to the Cinema for the hype and the bang for the buck with ticket prices, going to the movies is an event.
@@batgurrl first thing first art is subjective i watched every mcu movie so know every thing. they are different from others they do something impossible and for me the are art
Here's the problem with that spin. If people wanted to see those 'Indy' movies, they would, and then theaters would carry them. It's supply and demand. If Disney shut it's doors tomorrow, movies like the Irishman wouldn't suddenly become billion dollar movies, because no matter how 'good' it might be, the general audience doesn't care. The general audience would simply stop going to see movies. Theaters would start shutting down, and less screenings would be available to those 'Indy' movies. In short, popular movies fund the costs so 'less' popular movies can be played.
I think the problem he is trying to say is that nowadays most people only watch movies with a big brand on them, so without it, smaller movie companies will have a harder time to make it tot the big screen, although u can’t blame the big companies
Fiege's defense that Marvel movies are actually movies in other genres disguised as superhero movies is not true. The may incorporate elements of other genres, but inevitably the movie revolves around big long scenes of computer-generated punch-ups (mostly).
I bet the reason he said that the MCU didn't have phsycologicly real characters is because he only saw one. If you only see iron man 2 then you don't see tony change much. But that's why it's so rewarding to watch the whole MCU. You see tony go from a selfish arms dealer to a father who was willing to sacrifice himself to save the universe.
Maybe Hollywood needs to take more risks and come up with something new and original.The problem isn't with Superhero movies the problem is keeping up with new changes in society.
@@Thespeedrap Maybe we'd see more risk-taking and originality if mainstream audiences craved it instead of being creatures of habit that like sticking to formula.
@@Y-two-K Facts, if they made it a law to watch Casablanca, Taxi Driver, The good the bad and the ugly, or any classic film for that matter, Marvel would make a hell of a lot less money because ppl would realise what they're missing
natester n28 why do you people act like if someone watches marvel, they only watch marvel? People watch different genres of film and in every generation there is a popular genre, for this generation, it’s superhero films.
Next idea for Marvel movies director : Christopher Nolan - Moon Knight James Cameron - Spiderman James Wan - Namor Quentin Tarantino - Sgt Nick Fury Peter Jackson - Hercules George Lucas - DarkHawk Michael Bay - War Machine Ridley Scott - Silver Surfer Tim Burton - Captain Britain Frank Miller - Daredevil Robert Zemeckis - Beyonder Gareth Evans - Iron Fist Guillermo del Toro - Blade Steven Spielberg - Alpha Flight Paul W.S Anderson - Elektra J. J. Abrams - Warlock Simon West - Luke Cage Zack Snyder - Odin Roland Emmerich - Galactus Robert Rodriguez - Ghost Rider David Ayer - Punisher Christopher McQuarrie - Superior Ironman Stephen Sommers - Xmen Paul Verhoeven - ROM
Maybe it's just society that's changing Artistic Cinema that Coppola and Scorsese want on theatre is NOT what people want on theatre If you want to relate to characters, being moved and have thoughts on human existence, most likely you prefer to do that in the comfort and security of your living room by yourself. Nowadays No one wants to buy a ticket to possibly sit next to stranger and cry and be vunerable or go too much deep on the important questions in life Nowadays We feel more comfortable doing that at home, where we're more in control and confident to let ALL of our real emotions be expressed. Moreover Cinema even the finest can be hit or miss And requires a right state of mind and mood to be approached correctly It's just a much safer investment to us consumers to buy a ticket for a franchise because we can much more likely PREDICT a decent standard level of satisfaction And simply franchise movies are EASIER to watch regardless of the situation you are before starting watching them
I'll watch any type of movie in the cinema, if it makes me cry or feel any other emotion, good, cinema should make the audience feel something. Not how many superheroes can we fit into one film like a kid playing with his action figures. Joker did so well because it was a character based tragedy and there were people crying or shocked.
If I blame anyone its Hollywood. They don't make anymore Good fellas Gladiator Raiders of the lost Ark they quit. Whose fault is it? the studios. If Hollywood would write good movies. They wouldn't complain
Marvel movies aren't 'Cinema' doesn't mean they are bad. They are just different from the mainstream Cinema. Also He's talking about Marvel or MCU because Logan exists. Because MCU is based on Comic books and trying to make it more comic accurate than TDK trilogy
The only reason he referred to them as themeparks is because Disney and Disneyworld he was just trying to think of something quick to diminish the movie's.
I agree with Martin Scorcese partially. The avengers movies are indeed "amusement park" stuff. Just massive action sequences, explosions, CGI, and they cram as many heroes as they can because it makes more and more money (they are entertaining to watch in theaters though). These movies have unmemorable villains, barely do justice to the characters (because there are too many to fit in 2 hours). HOWEVER, The individual marvel movies are indeed "cinematic art" and i'd say they are much better than the Avengers movies. Like Ryan said, Captain America is a political spy type movie, MCU spider man is a coming of age teen movie, Ant man a heist movie. And Iron Man (2008) was great too. Basically the individual hero movies are actually much better than they get credit for
@@IR17171717 I am one of the people who's supported his movies for quite awhile. I'm just tired of gangster movies and romanticized history. If he wants he can tackle real writing. Coming up with an original idea and executing it.
If they were Jelous they would try to start their own franchises instead of making stand alone films. Some people have different intentions and making the most money isn't always one of them.
Its fine. He didn't say they were bad, just not cinema in the sense that they are trying to touch the ordinary human soul with human-sized tales. He said they were well-made and that the actors did the best they could to convey emotions given the fact that they conveying characters that are hopelessly outside of relatable human circumstances. Stop moaning. He's right.
Na, he's not right in the slightest. He's bitter. And he's lost his touch. Go watch the Irishman, an impossibly long movie that he wanted to be in the theaters but .... Just watch it and you'll see. The departed was long but it was effing GREAT. So, it's length is not *my* argument. It could be the theaters' tho. Endgame was also really long, but it was also really good
I think it’s they hate the fans of these movies. The people hold these cheesy Marvel movies like they’re great. They are not great or deep movies. They decent popcorn movies nothing more. Most directors don’t like that corny stuff. I like most of them but none of them a classic compared other movies outside comic movies..
Joker? or maybe Black Panther, hell Deadpool? all of those movies are going down in history so im sure they count as classics but hell i dont really give a rats ass about these opinions, worlds full of crybabies who dont get theyre way, especially hollywood
I can agree and disagree with Scorsese at the same time. Im really into Marvel movies, but i can relate to what he said. We can’t handle MCU movies same as the others, and that’s what is so cool in them. so chill people, there is no truth, just oppinions.
Disney strong arms theaters to only play Disney movies, that’s not an opinion, is a fact. That’s where the frustration comes from, a monopoly on entertainment is not something to be celebrated, that’s he’s opinion, which I agree with. I don’t think Scorsese is trying to convince people not to enjoy marvel movies, I enjoyed a lot of them myself, he’s just shedding light on the dirty practices in the industry.
@@JP_0306 Then he should've said that, not superhero movies are not cinema, because they clearly are cinema, they played those movies in the cinema. unless of course he has a different meaning of the word cinema.
Why was so much focus put on his statement "not cinema"? My issue is that he denied the presence of all the psychological depth of the Marvel movie characters. He can call them what he wants, but that part is just complete and utter bullshit (this isn't in an angry tone, believe it or not)
I kinda agree. Like how many movies have we had lately that aren't superhero movies? Or spy movies.? I mean we kinda need a brake. With some really good movies that aren't spy or superhero. I dont hate superhero movies but I am pretty sick of it. I am sooo excited about top gun 2. Those kinda of movies are what we need for a little while
@@calebthomas1481 nah dawg. You're the one who seems offended by the fact i corrected you for trying tl speak for everyone🤷🏾♂️speak for yourself that's all🤷🏾♂️
Of course directors hate Marvel movies. Directors think of themselves as artists who make art. They make movies about gay cowboys eating pudding. Marvel makes movies that people actually want to see.
I love marvel movies and comics. But I understand where Scorsese is coming from. I love marvel movies but I haven’t watched them over and over compare to movies that have nothing to do with superheroes. Some superhero movies I don’t remember. But more grounded movies like pulp fiction, taxi driver, shawshank redemption, wolf of Wall Street and fight club. Those movies I can watch all the time because they deal with real human issues and emotion. And have free range of film making. I love marvel movies but people give them too much hype. The only superhero movie that’s made me feel this way, is joker. Technically super villain movie. But that had a mixed reception but it’s pure work of art. Disney is destroying cinema
Yep. Marvel movies are nothing without CGI fest and cringy corny jokes. Marvel movies in general are garbage. To stop liking Marvel movies, you just need to grow up and stop watching cartoonish movies that give you false idea about how a true hero should be.
Frankly what I get from Scorsese point of view is that he's truly kinda worried about the SURVIVOR of his beloved art. I'm sorry for him. And frankly the situation does really look bad and getting worse. It's totally possible to imagine a future with exclusively Disney movies on Disney Cinema And these Disney Cinema are like Starbucks everywhere Only few other theatres show other not Disney movies And indie movies will be a little genre Like really considered a genre Indie movies Not thriller comedy or romance Just you either have the franchise movies with whatever is their formula Or indie movies And indie movies may have distribution ONLY through streaming and nowhere in theatre
Thanks for this. It seems like argument is really more of a re-statement / update of Adorno & Horkheimer’s culture industry thesis. I have to admit that I found the initial claim frustrating when I first heard, but put that way it makes a lot more sense.
Getting rid of the paramount decrees sounds like a bad idea. Charging more for movies should be a thing we all agree on is bad for us... it's not like disney movies are hurting for profits and need to charge more...
@@uncomfortablecat Ik right He are the most terrible MCU movies Spiderman HC Spiderman FFH Dark World Captain Marvel Antman Antman and the wasp Hulk Iron Man 2 Black Panther Dr Strange
i dont think he hated the marvel but every marvel movie is not so good to make billions of dollars thats what he meant to say example infinity war shazam and joker are great movies but ant man , captain marvel , even spiderman far from home used iron man to get movie success and so milions billions of dollars realy is it worth it !
I actually understand what he means when he says they are not cinema. He comes from a time when movies were original, one offs trying to be an art form. Marvel movies aren't any of those things. Maybe cinema is changing, or maybe we are. It doesn't make him wrong, but it might make his claims more subjective.
They've done fine without you there for years Actually considering the MCU's success , you might be the reason for that Your absence was like a curse or bad omen being lifted So continue to stay away please It may make Martin Scorsese mad but for alot of people its a blessing
If the Marvel movies are a theme park ride then what are Bay's Transformers films? Slow motion car accidents, why was I even asking? Hey Marty, when I go to a giant IMAX screen with stadium seating and awesome sound, it's not going to be so I can see some intimate character drama though I'd love to see how a Leone film like Once Upon a Time in the West or the Good, the Bad and the Ugly would look, now there was a filmmaker who knew how to do a character drama in widescreen.... the superhero films of its day.... which are also character dramas... Maybe Scorsese's just whiny?
The Transformers movies are made to be 2 hours of action and titties just like how the 80's cartoon was made as a very long ad for toys. Transformers has never claimed to be deep or character driven.
Scorsese means, the art of film, lighting, mystery, suspense, practicals, development process, studios, and how everything was for almost a century. That has gone away. Film vs Digital and everything in between. The art of film( literally film) is so distinct that ARRI cameras have been at the forefront for the last 30 years. It’s mainly what Hollywood still uses, but it still doesn’t have the same characteristics digitally as with Film. That’s what Scorsese, and Quentin Tarantino are sad about. I finally understand their opinion.
Sounds like their real complaint is with the movie studios and how they control what gets made and distributed. Don't go blaming the audience for liking what they like and not flocking to artsy movies the same way they do for something carefully crafted for maximum entertainment value. Go talk to the studios about giving you a semi-lucrative distribution channel for your artsy stuff.
@@ThreadBomb Its not a strawman, its a clear implication of complaining that their artsy movies aren't profitable enough compared to popular entertainment fare. The money comes from the audience, so in complaining that their movies aren't making enough money, they are attacking the preferences and sensibilities of the audience.
Would he have made the comment if Stan Lee was still alive? I've watched a few of these. They've brought the feeling of comics to the theater the way films made based on books have for years. I feel like that might be what caused this comment by Martin, although I'd like to know exactly what 'Cinema' means
Marvel movies are nothing without CGI fest and cringy corny jokes. Marvel movies in general are garbage. To stop liking Marvel movies, you just need to grow up then. Stop watching cartoonish movies that give you false idea about how a true hero should be.
TheAnhphuong92 You’re commenting this under pretty much everyone but I gotta ask, if Marvel movies are childish and represent a false narrative of what a hero is, then what are mobster movies, such as many of Scorsese’s? A glorification and romanticism of violence and crime? And what do they say about humanity, yes there’s “we’re all flawed” but that’s a cliché that is the bottom-line basis of most movies, so is their message that we’re just all brutal beings? Not very heroic or representative of most of the population. It’s all escapism and different views on the world through different means. The only childish thing here is you and your dismissal of the brand and genre.
@@TheAnhphuong92 The only problems I had with the MCU is that it was a little up it's own ass, and it made it so people had this weird reaction where you absolutely had to see the movies on opening weekend, which I never have that feeling with films
I watched the entire infinity saga and I still don't like it. I really wanted to but I just don't. I really want to be part of the craze but I can't get into it. If people love it more power to them as for me I guess I like different movies to everyone else.
well the directors are salty cuz comic book movies are the big thing in hollywood nowadays and those who're not involved with dc or mcu hate it cuz they can't seem to come up with something new or better to compete with mcu movies that's just how the market works people want entertainment adn mcu provides that
Art is weird. You take a dump and call it art. Or can create Shakespeare. Either way it can be classified as art. Good art or bad art is subjective not objective. There is a scale of art. But at the same time people view art differently based on a wide variety of things.
As a young Marvel fan yeah MCU is enjoyable and fun but It doesn't hold that much Weight in the story, I feel like WandaVision was the only MCU project that was a clean written story, probs better than endgame.
many loved transformers movies as well, made billions, also pirates. People want to be entertained, especially teens or famillies and not to go to the cinema and remind them of how vile human nature is.
Scorsese knows what he's talking about, the focus should be on making films that directors, producers, and the cast are passionate about making, not something catered to the majority.. if it's good on its own, it'll be good to the majority too.
The stories that are being adapted by marvel, are great stories and they should be appreciated, because, the creatives at Marvel Comics are and were great writers, storytellers, and artists. There’s fantastic material there.
@@thedeepfriar745 there is, without a doubt, but almost any "good enough" director can direct those films... the only challenging things for directors there are the stunts and CG (where to use)
Ticket sales talk, certain genres and styles of movies nowadays just don't draw in much people nowadays people want spectacles and something that visually takes advantage of screen size to be worth the ticket price they want the thrill. That doesn't mean other films are lesser for it, more intimate dramatic work is suited well for Netflix etc. people become more drawn into the story at home or on their phone. The way we consume media has changed directors need to adapt change with and accept it.
Marvel is just an easy target for people. HBO, TNT, and Netflix combined with the state of the economy have just as much to do with people not going to theaters for anything but the blockbusters Criticizing Marvel specifically as not cinema as compared to any number of other franchises over the years is silly. Guaranteed if you asked Scorcese about 3 Days Of The Condor he would have nothing but respect for the movie, and anyone who thinks that movie is cinema but dismisses The Winter Soldier because its a superhero movie is just ignorant
Mass market texts (including films) are not meant as esoteric art house pieces. They are for the masses...hence popular...for the larger populace. They're the least common denominator to draw people in and give them an enjoyable experience. It does NOT make them BAD. it just makes them generally derivative but good!
Instead of complaining I wish Martin direct Marvel movies and show how it is done Because Comic Adaptations is not that easy !!! Characters like Charles Xavier, Punisher, Dr.Doom would be great Martin Scorsese directs !!!!
OMG!!! Who cares what Scorsese thinks? He is expressing his opinion, he is completely entitled to his own opinion. Why do people get so wound up over things that don't affect them? I personally love the MCU but do I care that someone else doesn't? No, absolutely not.
Isn't he the same man who said Netflix and/or streaming networks are ruining movies and then turned around and made a movie for a streaming service. Why does anyone care what he thinks?!
Did you even watch till the end? He doesn't like that movies are going straight to streaming instead of their art being shown on a big screen but is willing to compromise, you can do something and not like doing it.
Because hes like a veteran when it comes to movies. When I want recommendations or options towards physics, I’d obviously take Einstein’s word/opinion over lets say my high school professor. Its the matter of credibility earned by providing quality. But Philistine people like you will still uphold the mindless CGI Brawl fests, over quality screenplay by saying Ok Boomer.
Isn't it impressive that Ryan can make the two best things about Screen Rant? These essays have great editing and are genuinely funny and insightful. Keep it up!
You guys should really label it whenever it's a Ryan video.
Would definitely get more views
Yes this. I'm always afraid of clicking on some of the SR trash, when it could be a Ryan video
2018-present have easily been dark times for the movie industry. Movies with unique and original concepts are being overshadowed by mostly formulaic corporate franchise films, sequels, remakes, and reboots. I do hope that fortunately, with the success of movies like The Irishman and Parasite, creativity and originality will overtake the overflux of franchise films. The last year in my opinion where creativity and originality flowed was 2008 with movies like The Dark Knight and The Hurt Locker
"The irishman" was good?
@@prabhupadasiminakia2434 It is a masterpiece.
When mediocre fan service movies get praised like they have been greatest achivement in cinema by crazy fans whom most cinema culture is limited to geeky movies, they inevitably get reaction and dislike from the people that gave their decades to cinema industry and made real masterpieces. MCU is fun and all, but it's absolutely nothing more than a series of popcorn flicks.
Yes. They are popcorn licks but some of them(at least those few i have watched) are much better as popcorn flicks than average popcorn flick. That's why calling them mediocre fan service movies is not fair.:P
@@marcinbudzinski9347 I agree
That is the reason I go to the theater to be entertained, not for Oscar baits that I can watch those now on streaming.
It's all entertainment, relax and take it easy
People are allowed to have opinions
I agree with him. Marvel movies are fun, but they're nothing especially groundbreaking or 'deep'.
The dark knight is the pinacle of superhero movies, even dc can't top themselves
@@tobecontinued5290 Spideman 2 and Logan also
How dare you poo poo face
Most of the mcu fans didn't even read comics if they actually did they know mcu is for kids
@@heh9719 I read them and it’s still entertaining
people need to understand that marvel has created a problem in hollywood, people don't care about actors anymore but about franchises and all that as a big fan of super hero movies i can see the problem they are creating too
kids dont care bout actors, the marvel movies are the reason me and others have went back to watch some of these actors in other movies like infinitely polar bear (mark ruffalo & zoe saldana) and sherlock holmes (robert downey jr) Lucy (scarlett johannson) and even 21 bridges (chadwick boseman)
@@ILiveLife4MAGS that's just what i said
Good. People shouldn't care about actors to begin with.
@@thepsychicspoon5984 *sad actor noises*
bruh did u see how many people were sad that chadwick boseman died?
Martin is right,
I want more movies like gone with the wind, Malcom , lord of the rings, taxi driver, blade runner 1 and 2 and other cinema masterpieces no more milked up franchises like marvel and Star Wars(which disney destroyed)
Star Wars is not destroyed. Dream on
@@dylanseah7161 wish it was a dream buster.
Disney is literally miking all of the popular IPs that they are acquiring, going beyond Marvel and Star Wars whether it's franchises like Toy Story, Incredibles, Home Alone, Pirates of the Caribbean getting unnecessary sequels or even their own animated original classics now becoming live-action unnecessarily, all of which are solely cash grabbing in nature and lack any artistic touch (with the exception of Brad Bird, one of the very few who actually gave a damn about his original classic). I think they are going to milk the Fox-acquired Marvel characters shamelessly too.
@@denver7324 Marvel is working though
@@medalgear654 I agree with Rick!
I think I get where Martin is coming from. He comes from a time when movies were made basically as an art form. To tell stories that can be complex, heartbreaking, heartwarming, make you laugh and have a good time. MCU movies are basically made for the money. I'm not saying they aren't entertaining, because they are, it's just that their recycles Quick Cash grabs
Cool Arrow90 thanks for articulating that. Even tho some are better than others none qualify as what I consider ‘art’.
Now the majority of movies are superheroes, sequels and remakes of reboots because that’s where the money is
The thing is the Cinema isn't the world's main way of consuming media anymore. People tend to go to the Cinema for the hype and the bang for the buck with ticket prices, going to the movies is an event.
@@batgurrl first thing first art is subjective
i watched every mcu movie so know every thing. they are different from others they do something impossible and for me the are art
ibrahim kalmati
Ok boomer
@@keninjc89 I take it you disagree, gen z?
Hulk eating an oscar?
Me: ok. I’ll watch
TheChef same
TheChef Can’t argue with that
Lmao
He should present them.
Here's the problem with that spin. If people wanted to see those 'Indy' movies, they would, and then theaters would carry them. It's supply and demand.
If Disney shut it's doors tomorrow, movies like the Irishman wouldn't suddenly become billion dollar movies, because no matter how 'good' it might be, the general audience doesn't care. The general audience would simply stop going to see movies. Theaters would start shutting down, and less screenings would be available to those 'Indy' movies. In short, popular movies fund the costs so 'less' popular movies can be played.
M J that’s true
this is the best comment i have seen in this subject. Thank you for this
You're damn right
Well said
I think the problem he is trying to say is that nowadays most people only watch movies with a big brand on them, so without it, smaller movie companies will have a harder time to make it tot the big screen, although u can’t blame the big companies
Not sure if he meant Superhero movies in general or just Marvel movies.
But superhero movies can be art, sometimes.
Martin said he likes the Raimi Spider-Man films so I'm pretty sure he just means the MCU.
I love how he sounded like he does in the Pitch Meetings.
@Zwenk Wiel True, but he sounds more animated
This was Super Easy Barely An Inconvenience to watch
Oh really?
@@jeremiahtheartist Ye, ye, ye!
😂
Everytime you say that you kill it a little bit
Using someone's else's catchphrase is tight
Fiege's defense that Marvel movies are actually movies in other genres disguised as superhero movies is not true. The may incorporate elements of other genres, but inevitably the movie revolves around big long scenes of computer-generated punch-ups (mostly).
They hate Marvel because they can’t make a franchise as successful as Marvel. Jealousy at its finest.
When you try to please everyone...
Broken Eyes some people just hate with success comes hate
"When Martin Scorsese criticized Marvel."
Me: Criticized? THAT'S an understatement.
Hey guess what guy's who cares It's not a crime to have your own opinion
The important thing is to have choice, I'm a big fan of MCU but I love art movies too
I agree with Scorsese. Marvel movies are like theme park.
So is DC. Almost every superhero movies are theme park except Logan, Spiderman 2 and TDK.
People saysthey hate a thing
Fans: It’s treason then
I bet the reason he said that the MCU didn't have phsycologicly real characters is because he only saw one. If you only see iron man 2 then you don't see tony change much. But that's why it's so rewarding to watch the whole MCU. You see tony go from a selfish arms dealer to a father who was willing to sacrifice himself to save the universe.
youre right
I love Marvel movies, but if I became a film director, I won't ever direct a Marvel movie, that's just not for me
What Hollywood is mad about is the fact that super heroes are hot right now and not anything else
Maybe Hollywood needs to take more risks and come up with something new and original.The problem isn't with Superhero movies the problem is keeping up with new changes in society.
@@Thespeedrap Maybe we'd see more risk-taking and originality if mainstream audiences craved it instead of being creatures of habit that like sticking to formula.
@@Y-two-K Facts, if they made it a law to watch Casablanca, Taxi Driver, The good the bad and the ugly, or any classic film for that matter, Marvel would make a hell of a lot less money because ppl would realise what they're missing
natester n28 why do you people act like if someone watches marvel, they only watch marvel? People watch different genres of film and in every generation there is a popular genre, for this generation, it’s superhero films.
He does have a point movies other than superhero or villain are hard to get profit
Next idea for Marvel movies director :
Christopher Nolan - Moon Knight
James Cameron - Spiderman
James Wan - Namor
Quentin Tarantino - Sgt Nick Fury
Peter Jackson - Hercules
George Lucas - DarkHawk
Michael Bay - War Machine
Ridley Scott - Silver Surfer
Tim Burton - Captain Britain
Frank Miller - Daredevil
Robert Zemeckis - Beyonder
Gareth Evans - Iron Fist
Guillermo del Toro - Blade
Steven Spielberg - Alpha Flight
Paul W.S Anderson - Elektra
J. J. Abrams - Warlock
Simon West - Luke Cage
Zack Snyder - Odin
Roland Emmerich - Galactus
Robert Rodriguez - Ghost Rider
David Ayer - Punisher
Christopher McQuarrie - Superior Ironman
Stephen Sommers - Xmen
Paul Verhoeven - ROM
Maybe it's just society that's changing
Artistic Cinema that Coppola and Scorsese want on theatre is NOT what people want on theatre
If you want to relate to characters, being moved and have thoughts on human existence, most likely you prefer to do that in the comfort and security of your living room by yourself.
Nowadays
No one wants to buy a ticket to possibly sit next to stranger and cry and be vunerable or go too much deep on the important questions in life
Nowadays
We feel more comfortable doing that at home, where we're more in control and confident to let ALL of our real emotions be expressed.
Moreover
Cinema even the finest can be hit or miss
And requires a right state of mind and mood to be approached correctly
It's just a much safer investment to us consumers to buy a ticket for a franchise because we can much more likely PREDICT a decent standard level of satisfaction
And simply franchise movies are EASIER to watch regardless of the situation you are before starting watching them
👍👍👍
I'll watch any type of movie in the cinema, if it makes me cry or feel any other emotion, good, cinema should make the audience feel something. Not how many superheroes can we fit into one film like a kid playing with his action figures. Joker did so well because it was a character based tragedy and there were people crying or shocked.
I can tell it’s a Ryan idea just by the title
It annoys me when other creators on this account try and replicate it so ppl click thinking it's a Ryan vid
MidNiteBlazer yeah that’s very true
If I blame anyone its Hollywood. They don't make anymore
Good fellas
Gladiator
Raiders of the lost Ark
they quit. Whose fault is it? the studios. If Hollywood would write good movies. They wouldn't complain
Well they stopped making money. Hollywood is a business and they will do what makes money
They are making a new Indiana Jones movie
It's on the point where MCU shows a chicken just standing it would still make billions. And anyone who criticize it, you know they're haters.
So like Star Wars few years ago
@@aaronlautamaja9919 yes all jealousy
@@aaronlautamaja9919 lmao
You can't please everyone. It's crab mentality. They are criticizing marvel for their success,
Screen Rant: "Ryan, can you cover this video?"
Ryan George: "Yes sir, I can!"
As long as they don't scrape deadpool or turn it into a kids friendly film I'm OK with them
Disney will because its Disney
@@itscooldude167 its gonna be a r rated movie
Kevin feige confirmed it
"Now disney owns it so they are going to suck it empty like the honeybees that are also monopolizing their thing"
Well there is a third fan that watches the movies and read the better story lines in the comics/graphic novels.
That's the gatekeeper/elitist
Martin Scorsese is right
Come on he has the power to say
He won Oscar
Marvel movies aren't 'Cinema' doesn't mean they are bad. They are just different from the mainstream Cinema. Also He's talking about Marvel or MCU because Logan exists. Because MCU is based on Comic books and trying to make it more comic accurate than TDK trilogy
The only reason he referred to them as themeparks is because Disney and Disneyworld he was just trying to think of something quick to diminish the movie's.
Didn't know scorcesse was in sharktale
I agree with Martin Scorcese partially. The avengers movies are indeed "amusement park" stuff. Just massive action sequences, explosions, CGI, and they cram as many heroes as they can because it makes more and more money (they are entertaining to watch in theaters though). These movies have unmemorable villains, barely do justice to the characters (because there are too many to fit in 2 hours).
HOWEVER, The individual marvel movies are indeed "cinematic art" and i'd say they are much better than the Avengers movies. Like Ryan said, Captain America is a political spy type movie, MCU spider man is a coming of age teen movie, Ant man a heist movie. And Iron Man (2008) was great too. Basically the individual hero movies are actually much better than they get credit for
They're probably just upset that these comic book movies make more money than films they view as superior in terms of script writing.
Yeah I'm sure scorsese is super jealous. Not like he's had any blockbusters.
@@IR17171717 Well, it's been awhile and The Irishmen is basically the last gangster movie I'm watching from him.
@@TallicaMan1986 Well I'm absolutely, categorically sure he doesn't care whether you watch his next gangster movie.
@@IR17171717 I am one of the people who's supported his movies for quite awhile. I'm just tired of gangster movies and romanticized history.
If he wants he can tackle real writing. Coming up with an original idea and executing it.
If they were Jelous they would try to start their own franchises instead of making stand alone films. Some people have different intentions and making the most money isn't always one of them.
If Ryan is not in or narrating the video, I'm not interested!
Its fine. He didn't say they were bad, just not cinema in the sense that they are trying to touch the ordinary human soul with human-sized tales. He said they were well-made and that the actors did the best they could to convey emotions given the fact that they conveying characters that are hopelessly outside of relatable human circumstances. Stop moaning. He's right.
IR17171717 no he’s not
Na, he's not right in the slightest. He's bitter. And he's lost his touch. Go watch the Irishman, an impossibly long movie that he wanted to be in the theaters but .... Just watch it and you'll see.
The departed was long but it was effing GREAT. So, it's length is not *my* argument. It could be the theaters' tho. Endgame was also really long, but it was also really good
@@nogrecords I don't see what the Irishman not being as good as his old stuff has to do with whether his comments here are right or not.
"I try to watch them. But I don't actually watch any of them you know."
Me: Bruh
I rarely go to theaters anymore cos of all these series that won't end
More like: *The Oscars Hate the Marvel Movies*
@Darth Skywalker the dark knight was great. But it didn't get the best picture nomination. But Heath won an oscar.
@Darth Skywalker the dark knight was great. But it didn't get the best picture nomination. But Heath won an oscar.
@Darth Skywalker and iron man was nominated in some categories in Oscar.
I think it’s they hate the fans of these movies. The people hold these cheesy Marvel movies like they’re great. They are not great or deep movies. They decent popcorn movies nothing more. Most directors don’t like that corny stuff. I like most of them but none of them a classic compared other movies outside comic movies..
Not all are just popcorn films.
The Dark Knight and Logan were more than just comic book adaptations, and there are others.
Shannon James Some are But not every movie
Joker? or maybe Black Panther, hell Deadpool? all of those movies are going down in history so im sure they count as classics but hell i dont really give a rats ass about these opinions, worlds full of crybabies who dont get theyre way, especially hollywood
@@mohamadmohamd588
Agreed.
Marvel movies are live cartoons that's all.Everything else is a story that have a plot just not any substance to entertain you.
I can agree and disagree with Scorsese at the same time. Im really into Marvel movies, but i can relate to what he said. We can’t handle MCU movies same as the others, and that’s what is so cool in them.
so chill people, there is no truth, just oppinions.
Yeah
e yes
Disney strong arms theaters to only play Disney movies, that’s not an opinion, is a fact.
That’s where the frustration comes from, a monopoly on entertainment is not something to be celebrated, that’s he’s opinion, which I agree with.
I don’t think Scorsese is trying to convince people not to enjoy marvel movies, I enjoyed a lot of them myself, he’s just shedding light on the dirty practices in the industry.
@@JP_0306 Then he should've said that, not superhero movies are not cinema, because they clearly are cinema, they played those movies in the cinema. unless of course he has a different meaning of the word cinema.
I got a Scorcese ad before the video, thats what i call a beautiful irony
art is basically how far it is from being formulatic. that being said, disney BS is basically the opposite of art.
Why was so much focus put on his statement "not cinema"? My issue is that he denied the presence of all the psychological depth of the Marvel movie characters. He can call them what he wants, but that part is just complete and utter bullshit (this isn't in an angry tone, believe it or not)
I kinda agree. Like how many movies have we had lately that aren't superhero movies? Or spy movies.? I mean we kinda need a brake. With some really good movies that aren't spy or superhero. I dont hate superhero movies but I am pretty sick of it. I am sooo excited about top gun 2. Those kinda of movies are what we need for a little while
What *YOU* need for a little while. Speak for yourself
@@ryannb21 🤷♂️🤦♂️u offended? Lol
@@calebthomas1481 nah dawg. You're the one who seems offended by the fact i corrected you for trying tl speak for everyone🤷🏾♂️speak for yourself that's all🤷🏾♂️
@@ryannb21 I'm not offended. I just though it was funny that is was important to you.
Of course directors hate Marvel movies. Directors think of themselves as artists who make art. They make movies about gay cowboys eating pudding. Marvel makes movies that people actually want to see.
streaming services would make this all mute, soon all movies will just be streamed, people just click on them and pay for them.
I love marvel movies and comics. But I understand where Scorsese is coming from. I love marvel movies but I haven’t watched them over and over compare to movies that have nothing to do with superheroes. Some superhero movies I don’t remember. But more grounded movies like pulp fiction, taxi driver, shawshank redemption, wolf of Wall Street and fight club. Those movies I can watch all the time because they deal with real human issues and emotion. And have free range of film making. I love marvel movies but people give them too much hype. The only superhero movie that’s made me feel this way, is joker. Technically super villain movie. But that had a mixed reception but it’s pure work of art. Disney is destroying cinema
Yep. Marvel movies are nothing without CGI fest and cringy corny jokes. Marvel movies in general are garbage. To stop liking Marvel movies, you just need to grow up and stop watching cartoonish movies that give you false idea about how a true hero should be.
Well said
@@TheAnhphuong92 Thank U Bro. At least there is somebody who cares about the true source material.
The only genres the MCU has is action and comedy. And they are still formulaic.
sadness too
@@srilathakarri513 no sadness only terrible jokes
@@moseswangpan4987 iron man dying , black widow dying , quick silver dying , spiderman dying
@@srilathakarri513 please watch man of steel.... That movie has more emotions than the rest of the marvel.movies
@@moseswangpan4987 yes it has but compared to the whole franchise it is less.
They should just include (it's Ryan) everytime he's the narrator because that's the only time I actually watch it for more than 2 seconds.
Frankly what I get from Scorsese point of view is that he's truly kinda worried about the SURVIVOR of his beloved art.
I'm sorry for him.
And frankly the situation does really look bad and getting worse.
It's totally possible to imagine a future with exclusively Disney movies on Disney Cinema
And these Disney Cinema are like Starbucks everywhere
Only few other theatres show other not Disney movies
And indie movies will be a little genre
Like really considered a genre
Indie movies
Not thriller comedy or romance
Just you either have the franchise movies with whatever is their formula
Or indie movies
And indie movies may have distribution ONLY through streaming and nowhere in theatre
Thanks for this. It seems like argument is really more of a re-statement / update of Adorno & Horkheimer’s culture industry thesis. I have to admit that I found the initial claim frustrating when I first heard, but put that way it makes a lot more sense.
If a banana taped to a wall is already art how can marvel movies not be art?
The Batman 2022 will be a superhero movie but at the same time it will also feel like a David Fincher Se7en detective, noir, crime-thriller.
Getting rid of the paramount decrees sounds like a bad idea. Charging more for movies should be a thing we all agree on is bad for us... it's not like disney movies are hurting for profits and need to charge more...
Marvel Entertainment (Fox, Sony, Universal, Paramount): Exists
Marvel Studios: Am I a joke to you?
Marvel and Kevin Fiege could care less
If you want more Martin Scorsese like films go to Netflix it’s amazing
And he likes the movie copying his with the Joker.
If it's a good thing, then it deserve the praise. Most of the MCU movies are bad. They have like 3-4 good movies.
He was going to produce it
@@uncomfortablecat Ik right
He are the most terrible MCU movies
Spiderman HC
Spiderman FFH
Dark World
Captain Marvel
Antman
Antman and the wasp
Hulk
Iron Man 2
Black Panther
Dr Strange
@@imreallyblack4764 Bruh
Both Spider-Man movies are good.
@@uncomfortablecat That's your opinion I don't want you to disrespect mine
I don't know what the real defination of cinema. I see the motion pictures which i enjoy.
i dont think he hated the marvel but every marvel movie is not so good to make billions of dollars thats what he meant to say example infinity war shazam and joker are great movies but ant man , captain marvel , even spiderman far from home used iron man to get movie success and so milions billions of dollars realy is it worth it !
I defend the X-Men movies
Not the MCU
I actually understand what he means when he says they are not cinema. He comes from a time when movies were original, one offs trying to be an art form. Marvel movies aren't any of those things. Maybe cinema is changing, or maybe we are. It doesn't make him wrong, but it might make his claims more subjective.
It's because of franchises like the mcu and star wars I haven't been in a movie theater in years
same, sadly
Keep holding L for future years
Elsa Vargas and that’s the mcu fault how?
To most people they are the only reason to go to theatres.
They've done fine without you there for years
Actually considering the MCU's success , you might be the reason for that
Your absence was like a curse or bad omen being lifted
So continue to stay away please
It may make Martin Scorsese mad but for alot of people its a blessing
If the Marvel movies are a theme park ride then what are Bay's Transformers films? Slow motion car accidents, why was I even asking?
Hey Marty, when I go to a giant IMAX screen with stadium seating and awesome sound, it's not going to be so I can see some intimate character drama though I'd love to see how a Leone film like Once Upon a Time in the West or the Good, the Bad and the Ugly would look, now there was a filmmaker who knew how to do a character drama in widescreen.... the superhero films of its day.... which are also character dramas...
Maybe Scorsese's just whiny?
The Transformers movies are made to be 2 hours of action and titties just like how the 80's cartoon was made as a very long ad for toys.
Transformers has never claimed to be deep or character driven.
Martin is right
I feel like Emperor Palpatine on his throne reading and hearing about all this MCU hate.
Scorsese means, the art of film, lighting, mystery, suspense, practicals, development process, studios, and how everything was for almost a century. That has gone away. Film vs Digital and everything in between. The art of film( literally film) is so distinct that ARRI cameras have been at the forefront for the last 30 years. It’s mainly what Hollywood still uses, but it still doesn’t have the same characteristics digitally as with Film. That’s what Scorsese, and Quentin Tarantino are sad about. I finally understand their opinion.
Sounds like their real complaint is with the movie studios and how they control what gets made and distributed. Don't go blaming the audience for liking what they like and not flocking to artsy movies the same way they do for something carefully crafted for maximum entertainment value. Go talk to the studios about giving you a semi-lucrative distribution channel for your artsy stuff.
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That's a strawman argument - who was blaming the audience, that you have to defend them?
@@ThreadBomb Its not a strawman, its a clear implication of complaining that their artsy movies aren't profitable enough compared to popular entertainment fare. The money comes from the audience, so in complaining that their movies aren't making enough money, they are attacking the preferences and sensibilities of the audience.
Exactly, we go to the movies because Marvel entertained us and that is what most people go to be entertained and make their money worth.
Would he have made the comment if Stan Lee was still alive? I've watched a few of these. They've brought the feeling of comics to the theater the way films made based on books have for years. I feel like that might be what caused this comment by Martin, although I'd like to know exactly what 'Cinema' means
Marvel movies are nothing without CGI fest and cringy corny jokes. Marvel movies in general are garbage. To stop liking Marvel movies, you just need to grow up then. Stop watching cartoonish movies that give you false idea about how a true hero should be.
TheAnhphuong92 Why are you so hostile I get not liking something, but you just insulted the dude for no reason
@@TheAnhphuong92 having CGI doesn't make a movie bad. I really enjoyed the Guardian of the Galaxy movies.
TheAnhphuong92 You’re commenting this under pretty much everyone but I gotta ask, if Marvel movies are childish and represent a false narrative of what a hero is, then what are mobster movies, such as many of Scorsese’s? A glorification and romanticism of violence and crime? And what do they say about humanity, yes there’s “we’re all flawed” but that’s a cliché that is the bottom-line basis of most movies, so is their message that we’re just all brutal beings? Not very heroic or representative of most of the population. It’s all escapism and different views on the world through different means. The only childish thing here is you and your dismissal of the brand and genre.
@@TheAnhphuong92 The only problems I had with the MCU is that it was a little up it's own ass, and it made it so people had this weird reaction where you absolutely had to see the movies on opening weekend, which I never have that feeling with films
I watched the entire infinity saga and I still don't like it. I really wanted to but I just don't. I really want to be part of the craze but I can't get into it. If people love it more power to them as for me I guess I like different movies to everyone else.
Interesting to see what he says about infinity war and endgame. To be honest I didnt like the marvel franchise until those two movies
Infinity war and endgame wouldn't make sense without every other movie ever.
@@justinbrister8885 but the other movies are nothing without those two
@@nickmeale1957 Because of the build up and the story between all the characters in movies leading to infinity war and endgame
well the directors are salty cuz comic book movies are the big thing in hollywood nowadays and those who're not involved with dc or mcu hate it cuz they can't seem to come up with something new or better to compete with mcu movies that's just how the market works people want entertainment adn mcu provides that
They are entertaining that's all, they aren't great movies
@@jayyadav1610 i didn't say they're great but those movies are controlling the movie market completely nowadays
Yeah, I'd despise any multi-billion dollar venture I wasn't apart of either!!!
Hugo
EXCELLENT piece
I only clicked on this video to tell them I want more pitch meetings, but then was greeted to Ryans velvety voice.
Art is weird. You take a dump and call it art. Or can create Shakespeare. Either way it can be classified as art. Good art or bad art is subjective not objective. There is a scale of art. But at the same time people view art differently based on a wide variety of things.
I can see his point now
I prefer Ashes of Love. It's on Netflix.
As a young Marvel fan yeah MCU is enjoyable and fun but It doesn't hold that much Weight in the story, I feel like WandaVision was the only MCU project that was a clean written story, probs better than endgame.
What about loki? It was a really good show
Joker is a villain movie not even super connected to it.I am just being honest.
many loved transformers movies as well, made billions, also pirates. People want to be entertained, especially teens or famillies and not to go to the cinema and remind them of how vile human nature is.
Scorsese knows what he's talking about, the focus should be on making films that directors, producers, and the cast are passionate about making, not something catered to the majority.. if it's good on its own, it'll be good to the majority too.
The stories that are being adapted by marvel, are great stories and they should be appreciated, because, the creatives at Marvel Comics are and were great writers, storytellers, and artists. There’s fantastic material there.
@@thedeepfriar745 there is, without a doubt, but almost any "good enough" director can direct those films... the only challenging things for directors there are the stunts and CG (where to use)
Ticket sales talk, certain genres and styles of movies nowadays just don't draw in much people nowadays people want spectacles and something that visually takes advantage of screen size to be worth the ticket price they want the thrill. That doesn't mean other films are lesser for it, more intimate dramatic work is suited well for Netflix etc. people become more drawn into the story at home or on their phone. The way we consume media has changed directors need to adapt change with and accept it.
Marvel is just an easy target for people. HBO, TNT, and Netflix combined with the state of the economy have just as much to do with people not going to theaters for anything but the blockbusters
Criticizing Marvel specifically as not cinema as compared to any number of other franchises over the years is silly.
Guaranteed if you asked Scorcese about 3 Days Of The Condor he would have nothing but respect for the movie, and anyone who thinks that movie is cinema but dismisses The Winter Soldier because its a superhero movie is just ignorant
Mass market texts (including films) are not meant as esoteric art house pieces. They are for the masses...hence popular...for the larger populace. They're the least common denominator to draw people in and give them an enjoyable experience. It does NOT make them BAD. it just makes them generally derivative but good!
Instead of complaining I wish Martin direct Marvel movies and show how it is done
Because Comic Adaptations is not that easy !!!
Characters like Charles Xavier, Punisher, Dr.Doom would be great Martin Scorsese directs !!!!
that would be interesting to see, a Scorsese directed superhero film
OMG!!! Who cares what Scorsese thinks? He is expressing his opinion, he is completely entitled to his own opinion. Why do people get so wound up over things that don't affect them? I personally love the MCU but do I care that someone else doesn't? No, absolutely not.
Saying superhero movies aren't cinema is like saying tomato isn't a fruit.
3:17 Did you mean mirages??
Isn't he the same man who said Netflix and/or streaming networks are ruining movies and then turned around and made a movie for a streaming service. Why does anyone care what he thinks?!
Did you even watch till the end? He doesn't like that movies are going straight to streaming instead of their art being shown on a big screen but is willing to compromise, you can do something and not like doing it.
you talk as if he has total control over where his movie should be shown to the audience LMAO
Because hes like a veteran when it comes to movies. When I want recommendations or options towards physics, I’d obviously take Einstein’s word/opinion over lets say my high school professor. Its the matter of credibility earned by providing quality. But Philistine people like you will still uphold the mindless CGI Brawl fests, over quality screenplay by saying Ok Boomer.
@@vshnv_c *veteran. :D a veterinarian is an animal doctor ;)
SuperMoekey i did an oopsie
How dare anyone disrespect unoriginal consumer product superhero movies! They're perfect for anyone who wont watch any movie older than they are!