We really are in a close race to the finish, between our environmental death-spiral and the inventiveness of our amazing concepts and technology. As green/leftists, we need to preach a gospel of hope. Hope for a restored planet, where we no longer need so much of the planet's surface to meet our needs and can re-wild it. If we all tried (and I am NOT talking about squeezing our personal 'carbon-footprint' the brain-child of the fossil-fuel industry), we can have a post-scarcity, post-degradation world, in our children's lifetimes.
"If there's going to be any kind of society worth living in, we're going to have to create it ourselves." And it's always been those who realized and internalized and fought for this that made life worth living. Which we, the beneficiaries, take for granted. But we can't rest on our laurels. That struggle is permanent. A fact of the world worth living in is the fight to mold it.
Ok Donald political plagiaristic Dump, probably mis-speaking “fight to mold it”, statesmanship vernacular is Assist your Side’s refining into humanity’s all-good created purpose? Until there is one nation hood under God’s sensibly prepared voterocracy. Right? Donald admitted many liked Jill-Stein, but either ignorance of cowardice plagiaristically lacked where-with-alls’ exactness-plan and DEEDS’ exactness-purpose. Hahaha haha another reality real-estate joke.
You couldn't believe how many times I've been through the pages of this book. Mesmerizing. The greatest trip of all is the one you make with your mind.
In my view, we tell the story of the «savage» because it gives us the right to colonize. Our God, our politics, our society is superior and gives us the right to rule. If we respect other humans and believe we have to treat them like equals, we would have no right to kill other people, take their land or enslave them. By telling another story we would have to see the «Devil» in ourselves.
Terra nullius was the doctrine Those who do not use the land as we do have no claim to it; those who don't organize governance as we do have no claim to the land. Therefore, it's up for grabs. Claim it for the European Crown as sanctioned by the Pope.
This book is so accessibly written it’s noteworthy just for that. Too often academics seem to be trying to ration access to their insights by covering them in jargon and complication. Not here. This book reminded me of how much more unlearning everyone will have to do when they leave school: it’s not just science that will make so much of our time there obsolete but history also. A good argument for reorienting education around the internet and works like this and away from textbooks and classrooms so resistant to the flexibility demonstrated by the two Davids.
this is funny., i appreciate how David managed to continue on despite being interrupted and constrained by time almost as a way of demonstrating and teaching ‘social resistance to time-keeping and capital’
@@Cosmogenitor Yeah, it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that this is a real, aired radio talk show with TIME LIMITS would it? Besides, I thought this show tended to attract intelligent, serious people.
@@Mike-B. It was, at one time. Aaron Mate left for a reason (and was never invited on to discuss the reporting that won him the Izzy, as it was on issues that Amy did not want anyone to be free to speak on (along with the rest of the establishment she acts as gatekeeper for) and Narmeen was chosen to replace him for a reason. It is sad to see what a million dollar a year income (minimum) will do to even someone like Amy. I remember watching Amy's coverage of the Libya invasion (which she supported) being debunked real times in the comments section on the live stream, and they cut off the livestream comments in response. I would recommend looking into the term "limited hangout" to understand DN!. It is quite interesting where they cut him off at (without offering him one of their extras like they do with containable interviewees.)
@@johnkayoss5422 Will you listen to what you are typing? Again, I don't know of any other show that allows guests more freedom to speak -- without interruption. I am aware of the Aaron Mate situation, and not inviting him back on is perfectly okay. Maybe Aaron's critique of DM lately has not been seen favorably, which would be understandable. Maybe Aaron has made a fair criticism here and there, perhaps regarding coverage during Trump administration; however, some of his criticism's maybe unfair and undeserved. Should we expect DM to invite it's own critics to waste valuable airtime -- and if so, on the basis of fairness? Amy has encouraged so many to speak freely and afforded them the chance to do so, and yet you say "Amy did not want anyone to be free to speak on..." Well maybe, but I have to question this, especially given the last two points you make. The fact that Aaron left, means he was going to be replaced as a matter of ongoing concern, period. I am unfamiliar, admittedly, with Amy's stance on Libya. Yet it is not at all interesting where they "cut off" the current guest, as it was the final minutes of the final segment of the show -- which is restricted by airtime. Hence it was not a choice, but rather a consistent delimiting factor that is adhered to daily, and to argue otherwise is unfathomable. If you or Aaron are going to criticize DM -- given all the good that it does and has done in the past, please bring more substantive arguments to bear. I was a little concerned with the direction of the show during the Trump era, but given the longevity of the show and its quality programming, considerable shielding against flippant criticism is granted. That is, while no show will likely ever be perfect, and even as shortcomings are acknowledged, no other effort has come close to eclipsing DM. In such a time as the present, it seems that the left -- even the articulate left -- is content to attack itself, chasing its own tail about and even biting it from time to time. Without DM, undoubtedly, we would all be in a far worse position. I welcome the criticisms, and have considered your points carefully, yet I still recognize and applaud the outsized contribution of DM, as I continue to appreciate and depend on its programming daily. I would still encourage young students to at least watch the headlines everyday -- even if you bing watch them on the weekend. The DM coverage of world news, along with the incredibly valuable context DM provides, can enlighten interest in young people about the world around them -- and that's more than half the battle. Respectfully,
The corrupt and inept keep such intelligent and worthwhile people down, don't let them reach the top where they could help everyone evolve. Great interview.
When you hear it, it sounds so obvious. E.g., OF COURSE there were vaunted intellectuals among the indigenous people of the Americas. At this point I find myself just assuming everything I was taught in history class as a kid was just... way off.
What I want to know is why is this the first time most of us are hearing about “indigenous intellectuals“? It’s obvious now that of course they existed.
@@nancercize It's not the first time we've heard of them, it's just that they've been portrayed as warriors, frontier villains to the "brave colonialists". We whitewash everything today just like we did yesteryear. We lie to ourselves as we lie to others.
@@space.youtube Yes, and we teach our children our version of history and omit anything that makes America look bad, but lying to our kids just makes us a lying nation. We lie mostly to ourselves.
Really recommend the Srsly Wrong interview with David Wengrow on this topic, look it up if you were feeling unfulfilled at the end. And, of course, get the book, it's amazing and the audiobook version on libro FM is charming.
@@cw4959 1. Graeber is not an archeologist but was an anthropologist. 2. You can respect someone for his work in his field (e.g. Graeber's research in Madagascar) while this same person can build biased tales about reality beyond his own specific research, just to support his political view.
I too love this programme although, to be honest, I am losing hope. I hear all these wonderful people here who inspire me but then reality hits again. However, I do know that we must continue to fight for a better, fairer world. Another fascinating programme. Thank you and all your guests.
Still an excellent contribution today to the anarchist mvt as well as all social mvt and reflexions I think - the first author that came to me in my early student years and made me question, as well as Marx, the world that I took for granted. Makes me want to read all his books all over again. I still remember it by heart though : 'As no one can tell you your true value, No one can tell you what you truly owe.' All I can say is that we owe you much. RIP Mr Graeber. Greetings from France, and be brave America. The fight never ends, but we can still be free. Let's walk, today, tomorrow, each day and the next, to the dawn of everything.
An amazing book already as I am only 1/4th into it. One could say, this is the Darwinian moment or Einstein’s E equals to mc square moment or the Human Genome Project moment of Big History. Roll over Rousseau…Hobbes…to Yuvl Noah Harari. A seminal work, indeed. The loss of Graeber is immense. “We are the 99 percenters!” ✊🏽
Here’s is one problem I have with one perspective David offered (and I still cannot wait to read this book!) that i see very often. When referring to the human species, the use of the word “we” only takes us so far. There has to be a point where “we” becomes “us” and “them”, meaning same species, different agenda. Those who want to share power and those who don’t. And that leads to my argument with the statement that “this system of inequality was not inevitable”. I liken the human species to be like seeds buried in the desert that may only bloom every few years after a rain. when Humans and our cultures and civilizations are malleable and adaptable and when the conditions became ripe for hierarchy and control, brought on at least partially by agriculture and massively increased through technology, it seems impossible to imagine that some humans would not organize to increase their power over the collective. And yet, we must never give up hope. Even false hope is better than despairing about the human condition as who knows when a hope is false without working awfully hard to find it is indeed not true. We are prehistoric meatsacks wandering through a civilization we can hardly understand that appears to be accelerating it’s power and control. It’s no wonder so many feel lost.. it is nice to see a book that attempts to correct the historical blindness of other ways of living, but I despair of how the people can ever set up a more just and equal civilization,. I await your responses.
A remarkable man David Graeber. RIP ❤️ 🙏 "The Dawn of Everything " I hope everyone has read it. Thank you also David Weingrow, for your knowledge and friendship with David. I saw this on Democracy Now when you first came on. Look at us now in 2022. ❤️
I’m in shock, what a great loss, so unexpectedly, I’ve enjoyed his lectures, and as I’ve always believed that Europeans in their ignorance destroyed so many great native societies, trying to make the the Americas into another corrupt European society driven by wealth, power and religion, but an advance society is not measured by wealth and power, but in how people live together, respectfully without materialism and modern weapons, destroying nature in their quest for land and resources, at the expense others, creating inequality and unfairness…etc, a beacon of light has gone out with David’s loss, and we still have climate change to deal with, a hopeless cause, under capitalism, greed and ideological differences, perhaps it is time we go the way of the all the past, now extinct species….humans don’t deserve this life giving soft sustaining planet…
I just finished this book, it's brilliant just like the rest of Graeber's works. I just have one critique, which is that I think that the authors are a bit optimistic about the natural tendency towards a democratic/peace-like society in any period or era anywhere on Earth prior to the enlightenment. Just because there are 500 years without evidence of large scale war in parts of pre-colonial America doesn't mean it was a peaceful or democratic society. I'm sure there was still all kinds of petty squabbles and small scale violence just like in every other human society. There might have even been factional violence on medium scales for control of resources and people which left no archeological trace. I guess I just have this pessimism about humans, and a bias towards a more game theoretic model of basic human interactions. However, the large takeaway from the book remains in tact, which is that native peoples and the societies they built are every bit as complex and fully modern as European/"western" societies. Early thinkers on human prehistory were largely incorrect in the assumptions the made, particularly toward the "naturalness" of monarchy and patriarchy. It's important to explore novel lines of thought about human prehistory, and the amount of assumptions that are questioned in this book alone make it a worthwhile read. I'm thankful for Graeber's contributions to his field and I was quite distraught to learn of his death last year. His book "Debt" had a profound impact on my understanding of money. May he rest in peace.
Your opinion on early cultures that are not European are very wrong. Most early indigenous cultures were not egocentric. This is the main reason for the ignorance created today. Western society is short-sighted from its origin. They just pointed it all out.
You know history is being protected by a select few even though it is categorically WRONG. Africa is a huge example. But people in power lack compassion and service to orhers
@@mariussielcken maybe if your kind didn't destroy manuscripts, statues, arts, etc and burned down every libraries then the world would be a different place. Oh it was, till y'all did settler colonialism all over the globe. Destruction upon every corner of the planet for your own benefit, rooted in greed and violent psychopathy.
My heart bleeds for the disappointments of those who felt they were born to entitlement and now have to exist in the life styles of those upon and from whom their parents were supposed to create their entitlements.
Thank you Amy. I was part of occupy Santa Cruz and came up I was going to school down there and came up to occupy Oakland. Yes and I still have Believe It or Not literature and handouts from my time spent with the Occupy Movement which I loved, and yes I am one of the 99%!
I wrote about that 15 years ago working at the UN. So it wasn't erased from my history. Although what I wrote wasn't a book it was just a brochure, it was absolutely about that very thing. The Haudenosaune, who we called the Iroquois confederacy. And the Iroquois who went to Europe and spoke -- I believe to the League of Nations. I need to find a copy of my brochure, I think I actually wrote it closer to 20 years ago. But the League of Nations and later the UN were based upon the Iroquois Confederacy and the way they used consensus to avoid conflict. Any new tribes who wanted to join that Confederacy had to agree that they would talk and seek to come to consensus rather than resorting to violence. I forget the man's name who went to Europe. There is also a story about a man who was very violent, and even a cannibal, and there was another man, the Peacemaker, whose name someone like me is not supposed to use. And this Peacemaker, who was born on an island of a particular woman, some sort of special birth, went to this man and, it is said, combed the snakes out of the man's hair, which helped him to forego cannibalism and violence and to pursue peace. And the Peacemaker traveled around from settlement to settlement presenting his case for peace rather than violence, and thus the Confederacy was born. I may have some details wrong because I haven't even looked at this in about 20 years.
History Major here: The roots of Western inequality took nourishment from Christian theologians and thinkers from the 10th century onward. The thinkers of this age built a grand edifice about humanity being grouped into hierarchical "Ordos" or Orders who all fell along a scale ranging from God above to Satan in the Pit. The idea of social classes making up different parts of society, e.g "Those who toil, those who fight and those who pray" had vast influence over how feudalism but above all the later forms of absolutist monarchy was idealized and constructed. Suggested introductory reading: George Duby's "The Three Order . Feudal Society Imagined".
A display of compassion is also found in the archeology of our cousins, the neanderthals; scientists unearthed the skeleton of an extremely old (relative, est. 40+y/o) male who had lost an eye, had one deformed arm (child sized) & had lost all of his teeth long before death (bc all of the 🦷 sockets, in both jaw bones, had disappeared, new smooth bone had filled it all in.) In this one specimen, archeologists began to rethink the "cave man" image assigned to neanderthals, bc the skeleton of this elderly man showed no bouts of malnutrition, yet he was not ever a hunter (arm deformed since birth, & eye lost?) and the state of his jaw alone, with the regrowth of bone meant that someone in his tribe must have taken the time to pre chew everything the old man had eaten, for atleast a decade.
How do we know he was 'old'? I've heard that its not necessarily true that people died of old age 'earlier' back then, that they also had plenty of folks who lived into their 70s or longer, but child mortality was much higher, thus there were fewer people who had a chance to make it to that age.
WOW, ROCKED ME AGAIN AMY ! And how many times since I first saw you in the 90s ! I love you and the work you guys do THANK YOU ! This presentation was like the missing piece of the puzzle in my personal pursuit of history! Incredible fascinating, I got the book and saved this piece to listen to again after some study!
We choose wrongly don't we? There have always been other pathways to organize societies yet, patriarchy and greed seem to guide decisions affecting the 99%. Fascinating Amy.... ty
That was so interesting! I really enjoyed listening to David wengrow speak, it was bit of a shame he was cut off there at the end. Can't wait to get this book now!
Dear News Anchors...Democracy Now included...have you ever thought of putting a timer in the interviewee's screen so we don't have to experience that jarring TIMES UP stuff?
Amy loves that. She does that on every Democracy Now show, and then follows it with a long, tiresome list of names of the WHOLE Democracy Now show staff.
I think a lot of our issues boil down to this: when we are separated from our indigenous values and ways of thinking, we begin to become separated from our humanity. We become less humane.
This segment totally dropped the ball on the deep historical issue: agriculture as not commensurate with hierarchy and state despotism, as argued by establishment scholars like James Scott with their utterly oxymoronic version of bourgeoise anarchism.
Democracy Now is a radio program strictly limited to its 1-hour broadcast time. Also I think it seemed like David couldn't hear Amy saying his time was running out. There is a fantastic and much longer interview with him on the Srsly Wrong podcast about this book, I extremely recommend that in addition to the book itself.
David Wengrow, you plowed straight thru to the end. That was awesome. Cherokee People -- Paul Revere & The Raiders Doubleback -- ZZTop Don't Let Another Captain Captain Your Boat -- Abney Park
Late David Graeber was great. In explaining that 5000 years of Bureaucracy and Debt has botched and diseased everything we use as a system. Which is true. Which further gave me the idea of Democracy Now (re)christian as Bureaucracy Now (All the signs of rot visible and audible)
@@wj3186 imo writing statements like that show only how entangled one is with their own notions, it is odd that I got a whiff of anti-christian sentiment (mixed in with a curse to usury and the imperialist nature of bureaucracy) written like a parable, something that needs much interpretation lol
@@wj3186 simply meant that we live inside a system which is rotten and chokehold of bureacracy. Even this mainstream media is an example of Bureacracy.
@@impresauro3210 as for interpretation... Check out 5000 years of Debt and Slavery by David Greber. While your at it, also Karl Popper Open Society and it's Enemies
Oh, this is the kind of thing I've been looking for. Gotta get me that book. Thanks Amy, and everyone at Democracy Now. Also always wanted to look more into the Occupy movement. Thanks Graeber, where ever you are.
Can you please edit your interviews instead of interrupting your guest by yelling how much more time you'll allow them to speak? It's really annoying...
Specifically on his commenting on large societies without a strict hierarchy, I was just looking over some findings on the Cucuteni culture whose physical remains point to exactly that.
My thoughts immediately went there, too (and thanks for reminding me of the right consonants). Their civilization seems to have lasted 1,000 yrs, n'est-ce pas? and right in the middle of Europe. Look it up - a huge city even before the Mesopotamian ones.
@@cathjj840 Indeed, and they were only one of several other such cultures. The Cucuteni specifically were among the first to have had contact with those we today call Indo-Europeans. There's an interesting book titled _Towns larger than Cities_ along the lines of your statement about how these population centers were actually bigger than the Mesopotamian cities.
"On par"? The enlightenment didn't occur until... the 16th/17th century? Iroquois had been around far longer than that. No... the european was approaching some semblance of enlighted thought when the indigenous were already well versed.
Indeed, Washington among others recognized there was conscious input from the Iroquois Confederation's political organization that was borrowed when concocting the Constitution. (It predated the arrival of the European conquerors by several centuries).
I'll read the book to see what peer reviewed scholarship it contains, but I'm always skeptical about scholars who start out with a dearly held personal viewpoint and then seek out evidence that might support it while avoiding or rejecting valid evidence contrary to their viewpoint. There is no question that Graeber held some very strong beliefs about the flaws in "traditional" Western civilization, its organization, and its philosophical underpinnings before he wrote this book. That doesn't mean his conclusions are necessarily wrong, but it does raise reasonable concerns about his objectivity which can only be resolved by a close reading of his book. I'll be reading it and giving Graeber a fair chance to show me my concerns are unwarrented.
Amy 'can you TALK about' Goodman. On her show, she always cuts in "We have ten seconds", but also finds time to sign off reading an interminable list of names of anybody who is involved at any level in the production of Democracy Now.
I do follow history and love new discoveries and this is one. I look forward to the book. As a mature woman, why are we women always not there or are an afterthought in every historical account? As if. My life experience tells me men need the woman's backup ideas or we escalate to war or failure. My line I detest: "mankind is given to war..." Only men. Women are not inclined to war, and we are 1/2 of society. Stop saying "mankind" and just say 'men'. MEN ENGAGE IN WAR. Women do not. Don't say Mankind if you men Men.
STAR NATION. Humans repressed and regressed over time. They walk a path of the "Me" ownerships instead of being awake for something so much more wholesome.
Unfortunately the vast majority of people in wealthy country's such as N.A were I live don't want change that's going to be final nail in the proverbial coffin
I love this community of people who watch and comment DN. It makes me feel not alone. We can do this, we can make a better world.
We really are in a close race to the finish, between our environmental death-spiral and the inventiveness of our amazing concepts and technology. As green/leftists, we need to preach a gospel of hope. Hope for a restored planet, where we no longer need so much of the planet's surface to meet our needs and can re-wild it. If we all tried (and I am NOT talking about squeezing our personal 'carbon-footprint' the brain-child of the fossil-fuel industry), we can have a post-scarcity, post-degradation world, in our children's lifetimes.
@@michaeljames5936 Yet BBC News reported that the Amazonian rainforest is being cut down at the highest rate for 15 years . . . 😢.
Organize.
@@michaeljames5936 I believe it
@@michaeljames5936 theres a quote that goes something like this, "hope is the enemy of man becouse it only prolongs the suffering" -dont remember who
"If there's going to be any kind of society worth living in, we're going to have to create it ourselves." And it's always been those who realized and internalized and fought for this that made life worth living. Which we, the beneficiaries, take for granted. But we can't rest on our laurels. That struggle is permanent. A fact of the world worth living in is the fight to mold it.
Ok Donald political plagiaristic Dump, probably mis-speaking “fight to mold it”, statesmanship vernacular is Assist your Side’s refining into humanity’s all-good created purpose? Until there is one nation hood under God’s sensibly prepared voterocracy. Right? Donald admitted many liked Jill-Stein, but either ignorance of cowardice plagiaristically lacked where-with-alls’ exactness-plan and DEEDS’ exactness-purpose. Hahaha haha another reality real-estate joke.
The book Debt was life changing. Can’t wait to read this one! RIP David Graeber 🤲🏾
Dude that book is so good. Only he can discuss the dismal science of economics as wha it actually is…anthropology
Graeber will be SORELY MISSED. He was truly a wonderful and beautiful human being. RIP.
Society based on something other than personal egos… how marvelous! Bravo and kudos for this enlightening perspective from the Davids!
THAT'S COMMUNISMS!
"containing one's ego rather than flaunting it"!
Now if we can start holding the evil ones accountable and call them out in the public arena, good can triumph! Justice must be the goal!
@@scientifico get an education or shut your pie hole!
@@whygohome172 The added S to communism, leads me to believe he's just trolling.
You couldn't believe how many times I've been through the pages of this book. Mesmerizing.
The greatest trip of all is the one you make with your mind.
In my view, we tell the story of the «savage» because it gives us the right to colonize. Our God, our politics, our society is superior and gives us the right to rule. If we respect other humans and believe we have to treat them like equals, we would have no right to kill other people, take their land or enslave them. By telling another story we would have to see the «Devil» in ourselves.
Nail.
Amen
Terra nullius was the doctrine
Those who do not use the land as we do have no claim to it; those who don't organize governance as we do have no claim to the land.
Therefore, it's up for grabs. Claim it for the European Crown as sanctioned by the Pope.
Nice
the book discusses how the term savage was popularized at the time for this very reason
Thank you for covering this. It's such an important part of what it means to be human.
what? What is such an important part....?"
@@pohakumana Perhaps you should whakarongo mai the episode again.
@@gitanoespana7694 waste of time
This book is so accessibly written it’s noteworthy just for that. Too often academics seem to be trying to ration access to their insights by covering them in jargon and complication. Not here. This book reminded me of how much more unlearning everyone will have to do when they leave school: it’s not just science that will make so much of our time there obsolete but history also. A good argument for reorienting education around the internet and works like this and away from textbooks and classrooms so resistant to the flexibility demonstrated by the two Davids.
Rest in power. His books are incredibly influential to my worldview and I hope we carry on his legacy.
this is funny., i appreciate how David managed to continue on despite being interrupted and constrained by time almost as a way of demonstrating and teaching ‘social resistance to time-keeping and capital’
This is the most uninterrupting, free-to-speak freely, newscast ever produced in the US.
@@Mike-B. the way she holds until the very end to cut him off and speed through her sign off shows such a respect. It’s great
@@Cosmogenitor Yeah, it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that this is a real, aired radio talk show with TIME LIMITS would it? Besides, I thought this show tended to attract intelligent, serious people.
@@Mike-B. It was, at one time. Aaron Mate left for a reason (and was never invited on to discuss the reporting that won him the Izzy, as it was on issues that Amy did not want anyone to be free to speak on (along with the rest of the establishment she acts as gatekeeper for) and Narmeen was chosen to replace him for a reason. It is sad to see what a million dollar a year income (minimum) will do to even someone like Amy.
I remember watching Amy's coverage of the Libya invasion (which she supported) being debunked real times in the comments section on the live stream, and they cut off the livestream comments in response.
I would recommend looking into the term "limited hangout" to understand DN!.
It is quite interesting where they cut him off at (without offering him one of their extras like they do with containable interviewees.)
@@johnkayoss5422 Will you listen to what you are typing? Again, I don't know of any other show that allows guests more freedom to speak -- without interruption. I am aware of the Aaron Mate situation, and not inviting him back on is perfectly okay. Maybe Aaron's critique of DM lately has not been seen favorably, which would be understandable. Maybe Aaron has made a fair criticism here and there, perhaps regarding coverage during Trump administration; however, some of his criticism's maybe unfair and undeserved. Should we expect DM to invite it's own critics to waste valuable airtime -- and if so, on the basis of fairness? Amy has encouraged so many to speak freely and afforded them the chance to do so, and yet you say "Amy did not want anyone to be free to speak on..." Well maybe, but I have to question this, especially given the last two points you make. The fact that Aaron left, means he was going to be replaced as a matter of ongoing concern, period. I am unfamiliar, admittedly, with Amy's stance on Libya. Yet it is not at all interesting where they "cut off" the current guest, as it was the final minutes of the final segment of the show -- which is restricted by airtime. Hence it was not a choice, but rather a consistent delimiting factor that is adhered to daily, and to argue otherwise is unfathomable. If you or Aaron are going to criticize DM -- given all the good that it does and has done in the past, please bring more substantive arguments to bear. I was a little concerned with the direction of the show during the Trump era, but given the longevity of the show and its quality programming, considerable shielding against flippant criticism is granted. That is, while no show will likely ever be perfect, and even as shortcomings are acknowledged, no other effort has come close to eclipsing DM. In such a time as the present, it seems that the left -- even the articulate left -- is content to attack itself, chasing its own tail about and even biting it from time to time. Without DM, undoubtedly, we would all be in a far worse position. I welcome the criticisms, and have considered your points carefully, yet I still recognize and applaud the outsized contribution of DM, as I continue to appreciate and depend on its programming daily. I would still encourage young students to at least watch the headlines everyday -- even if you bing watch them on the weekend. The DM coverage of world news, along with the incredibly valuable context DM provides, can enlighten interest in young people about the world around them -- and that's more than half the battle. Respectfully,
The corrupt and inept keep such intelligent and worthwhile people down, don't let them reach the top where they could help everyone evolve. Great interview.
This point of view is so important to me personally. It "feels" right! It offers a history of people as socially & cognitively intelligent!
When you hear it, it sounds so obvious. E.g., OF COURSE there were vaunted intellectuals among the indigenous people of the Americas. At this point I find myself just assuming everything I was taught in history class as a kid was just... way off.
What I want to know is why is this the first time most of us are hearing about “indigenous intellectuals“? It’s obvious now that of course they existed.
@@nancercize It's not the first time we've heard of them, it's just that they've been portrayed as warriors, frontier villains to the "brave colonialists".
We whitewash everything today just like we did yesteryear. We lie to ourselves as we lie to others.
@@space.youtube Yes, and we teach our children our version of history and omit anything that makes America look bad, but lying to our kids just makes us a lying nation. We lie mostly to ourselves.
Bought the book! Can’t wait to start reading! Love these 2 sooooo much!
Really recommend the Srsly Wrong interview with David Wengrow on this topic, look it up if you were feeling unfulfilled at the end. And, of course, get the book, it's amazing and the audiobook version on libro FM is charming.
Thanks for the recommendation . I had to listen through it twice.
Thank you
I can't believe he just passed a year ago. 😢 I read Debt, The First 5,000 Years. It was phenomenal. Why do I just discover people after they are gone?
!!!!
Life is short and books are long. On the upside of such a tragic loss, David Graeber left us with a lot to think about.
How refreshing to see and listen to topics of conversation other than the tit for tat of regular news. 🙏
You are too adjusted to cable newa
This was so compelling. I almost love listening to DW as much as I did DG. Such a shame he got cut off at the end!!
Black Elk: 'Peace will only come to the hearts of people when they realize their oneness with the Great Spirit and that its center is everywhere.'
Landback now.
Thank you for this introduction to David Graeber and David Wengrow
We need more time with David, much more time.
This book is so good! Rip David Graeber. A great intellectual and activist taken too soon and so important for modern anarchist thought and action
"Anarchist thought"? How can those 2 words ever relate to each other?
@@Clancy192 wdym? do you have no idea what philosophical anarchism is?
If an activist writes a book about reality, bias is secured.
@@josemiguelcarrizo7373 ??? Graeber is one of the most respected archeologist in the field even by those who don’t agree with his politics??
@@cw4959 1. Graeber is not an archeologist but was an anthropologist.
2. You can respect someone for his work in his field (e.g. Graeber's research in Madagascar) while this same person can build biased tales about reality beyond his own specific research, just to support his political view.
I too love this programme although, to be honest, I am losing hope. I hear all these wonderful people here who inspire me but then reality hits again. However, I do know that we must continue to fight for a better, fairer world. Another fascinating programme. Thank you and all your guests.
Still an excellent contribution today to the anarchist mvt as well as all social mvt and reflexions I think - the first author that came to me in my early student years and made me question, as well as Marx, the world that I took for granted.
Makes me want to read all his books all over again. I still remember it by heart though :
'As no one can tell you your true value,
No one can tell you what you truly owe.'
All I can say is that we owe you much. RIP Mr Graeber. Greetings from France, and be brave America. The fight never ends, but we can still be free.
Let's walk, today, tomorrow, each day and the next, to the dawn of everything.
An amazing book already as I am only 1/4th into it. One could say, this is the Darwinian moment or Einstein’s E equals to mc square moment or the Human Genome Project moment of Big History. Roll over Rousseau…Hobbes…to Yuvl Noah Harari. A seminal work, indeed.
The loss of Graeber is immense. “We are the 99 percenters!” ✊🏽
Envoi: what they present is evidence based.
Yuval*
I was so excited when I first heard about this book. I miss David Graeber. Thanks DN for covering this.
RIP David!🌷💚
The work of two beautiful Davids. Can't wait to read this.
The first light of a possible new dawn. I am so grateful.
rip david graeber, long live david wengrow
Was just watching some of Graeber's speeches yesterday. Great minds think alike. Thank you DM! Graeber is a prophet.
Corporations were temporary institutions at there beginnings in the 19th century.
Marvelous interview, thank you.
The British East India was a corporation that ruled large parts of the Indian subcontinent and it wasn't meant to be temporary.
@@GazB85 Yeah , you're right. My bad.
@@jackkadaka9020 No problem. 👍
Here’s is one problem I have with one perspective David offered (and I still cannot wait to read this book!) that i see very often. When referring to the human species, the use of the word “we” only takes us so far. There has to be a point where “we” becomes “us” and “them”, meaning same species, different agenda. Those who want to share power and those who don’t. And that leads to my argument with the statement that “this system of inequality was not inevitable”.
I liken the human species to be like seeds buried in the desert that may only bloom every few years after a rain. when Humans and our cultures and civilizations are malleable and adaptable and when the conditions became ripe for hierarchy and control, brought on at least partially by agriculture and massively increased through technology, it seems impossible to imagine that some humans would not organize to increase their power over the collective.
And yet, we must never give up hope. Even false hope is better than despairing about the human condition as who knows when a hope is false without working awfully hard to find it is indeed not true.
We are prehistoric meatsacks wandering through a civilization we can hardly understand that appears to be accelerating it’s power and control. It’s no wonder so many feel lost.. it is nice to see a book that attempts to correct the historical blindness of other ways of living, but I despair of how the people can ever set up a more just and equal civilization,.
I await your responses.
A remarkable man David Graeber. RIP ❤️ 🙏 "The Dawn of Everything " I hope everyone has read it. Thank you also David Weingrow, for your knowledge and friendship with David. I saw this on Democracy Now when you first came on. Look at us now in 2022. ❤️
great discussion.
I’m in shock, what a great loss, so unexpectedly, I’ve enjoyed his lectures, and as I’ve always believed that Europeans in their ignorance destroyed so many great native societies, trying to make the the Americas into another corrupt European society driven by wealth, power and religion, but an advance society is not measured by wealth and power, but in how people live together, respectfully without materialism and modern weapons, destroying nature in their quest for land and resources, at the expense others, creating inequality and unfairness…etc, a beacon of light has gone out with David’s loss, and we still have climate change to deal with, a hopeless cause, under capitalism, greed and ideological differences, perhaps it is time we go the way of the all the past, now extinct species….humans don’t deserve this life giving soft sustaining planet…
"People making everyday decisions" 💓 Participatory democracy is it.
A really fascinating interview. Makes me glad that I pre-ordered this book a few weeks ago.
More on this please. Thanks for covering
He was spreading the gospel at the very end... challenging even the Coporate Timeclock itself! Love Democracy Now for allowing such info.
We CAN do this! We CAN make a better world (quoting Filip). I'm sue going to read that book!
Insightful book and interview grateful for the work of these gentelmans
😖 One gentleman. Two Gentlemen of Verona. Thank you.
@@sirmeowthelibrarycat And sadly, one less gentleman out of Venice.
This was great. Can’t wait to read The Dawn of Everything!
I already love David Wendell after this interview! Excellent
Excellent interview! Thought provoking research. Thank you.
I just finished this book, it's brilliant just like the rest of Graeber's works. I just have one critique, which is that I think that the authors are a bit optimistic about the natural tendency towards a democratic/peace-like society in any period or era anywhere on Earth prior to the enlightenment. Just because there are 500 years without evidence of large scale war in parts of pre-colonial America doesn't mean it was a peaceful or democratic society. I'm sure there was still all kinds of petty squabbles and small scale violence just like in every other human society. There might have even been factional violence on medium scales for control of resources and people which left no archeological trace. I guess I just have this pessimism about humans, and a bias towards a more game theoretic model of basic human interactions. However, the large takeaway from the book remains in tact, which is that native peoples and the societies they built are every bit as complex and fully modern as European/"western" societies. Early thinkers on human prehistory were largely incorrect in the assumptions the made, particularly toward the "naturalness" of monarchy and patriarchy. It's important to explore novel lines of thought about human prehistory, and the amount of assumptions that are questioned in this book alone make it a worthwhile read.
I'm thankful for Graeber's contributions to his field and I was quite distraught to learn of his death last year. His book "Debt" had a profound impact on my understanding of money. May he rest in peace.
Your opinion on early cultures that are not European are very wrong. Most early indigenous cultures were not egocentric. This is the main reason for the ignorance created today. Western society is short-sighted from its origin. They just pointed it all out.
Thank you for sharing your wise and balanced reflections.
I wish this guy had been given more time.
Can't wait to read this book!🌷💚
If history does in fact, repeat itself, maybe there is hope for democracy in its pure form, which we haven't had in US for decades.
The end was so funny! My man David Wengrow wasn't stopping for nobody
You know history is being protected by a select few even though it is categorically WRONG.
Africa is a huge example. But people in power lack compassion and service to orhers
Well, maybe if Africa had invented things like the metal printer or the internet, they would be able to preserve their heritage as well.
@@mariussielcken maybe if your kind didn't destroy manuscripts, statues, arts, etc and burned down every libraries then the world would be a different place. Oh it was, till y'all did settler colonialism all over the globe. Destruction upon every corner of the planet for your own benefit, rooted in greed and violent psychopathy.
My heart bleeds for the disappointments of those who felt they were born to entitlement and now have to exist in the life styles of those upon and from whom their parents were supposed to create their entitlements.
Thank you Amy. I was part of occupy Santa Cruz and came up I was going to school down there and came up to occupy Oakland. Yes and I still have Believe It or Not literature and handouts from my time spent with the Occupy Movement which I loved, and yes I am one of the 99%!
I wrote about that 15 years ago working at the UN. So it wasn't erased from my history. Although what I wrote wasn't a book it was just a brochure, it was absolutely about that very thing. The Haudenosaune, who we called the Iroquois confederacy. And the Iroquois who went to Europe and spoke -- I believe to the League of Nations. I need to find a copy of my brochure, I think I actually wrote it closer to 20 years ago. But the League of Nations and later the UN were based upon the Iroquois Confederacy and the way they used consensus to avoid conflict. Any new tribes who wanted to join that Confederacy had to agree that they would talk and seek to come to consensus rather than resorting to violence. I forget the man's name who went to Europe. There is also a story about a man who was very violent, and even a cannibal, and there was another man, the Peacemaker, whose name someone like me is not supposed to use. And this Peacemaker, who was born on an island of a particular woman, some sort of special birth, went to this man and, it is said, combed the snakes out of the man's hair, which helped him to forego cannibalism and violence and to pursue peace. And the Peacemaker traveled around from settlement to settlement presenting his case for peace rather than violence, and thus the Confederacy was born. I may have some details wrong because I haven't even looked at this in about 20 years.
That was fookin fascinating. Thank you :)
History Major here: The roots of Western inequality took nourishment from Christian theologians and thinkers from the 10th century onward. The thinkers of this age built a grand edifice about humanity being grouped into hierarchical "Ordos" or Orders who all fell along a scale ranging from God above to Satan in the Pit. The idea of social classes making up different parts of society, e.g "Those who toil, those who fight and those who pray" had vast influence over how feudalism but above all the later forms of absolutist monarchy was idealized and constructed. Suggested introductory reading: George Duby's "The Three Order . Feudal Society Imagined".
Grossly oversimplified :(
A display of compassion is also found in the archeology of our cousins, the neanderthals; scientists unearthed the skeleton of an extremely old (relative, est. 40+y/o) male who had lost an eye, had one deformed arm (child sized) & had lost all of his teeth long before death (bc all of the 🦷 sockets, in both jaw bones, had disappeared, new smooth bone had filled it all in.)
In this one specimen, archeologists began to rethink the "cave man" image assigned to neanderthals, bc the skeleton of this elderly man showed no bouts of malnutrition, yet he was not ever a hunter (arm deformed since birth, & eye lost?) and the state of his jaw alone, with the regrowth of bone meant that someone in his tribe must have taken the time to pre chew everything the old man had eaten, for atleast a decade.
How do we know he was 'old'? I've heard that its not necessarily true that people died of old age 'earlier' back then, that they also had plenty of folks who lived into their 70s or longer, but child mortality was much higher, thus there were fewer people who had a chance to make it to that age.
WOW, ROCKED ME AGAIN AMY ! And how many times since I first saw you in the 90s ! I love you and the work you guys do THANK YOU ! This presentation was like the missing piece of the puzzle in my personal pursuit of history! Incredible fascinating, I got the book and saved this piece to listen to again after some study!
Perfect way to end the segment, I really want to hear more about their studies. I’ll just have to buy the book, I suppose! 😄
Reading the book was a humbling experience and reminds us that we aren't such civilized society after all.
I'm totally elated to have been given this recommendation by the algorithm. Brilliant humans.
We choose wrongly don't we? There have always been other pathways to organize societies yet, patriarchy and greed seem to guide decisions affecting the 99%. Fascinating Amy.... ty
That was so interesting! I really enjoyed listening to David wengrow speak, it was bit of a shame he was cut off there at the end. Can't wait to get this book now!
Dear News Anchors...Democracy Now included...have you ever thought of putting a timer in the interviewee's screen so we don't have to experience that jarring TIMES UP stuff?
Yes yes!
usually there's a light that changes color that notifies the speaker that time is running out, but that is a good idea.
Amy loves that. She does that on every Democracy Now show, and then follows it with a long, tiresome list of names of the WHOLE Democracy Now show staff.
I think a lot of our issues boil down to this: when we are separated from our indigenous values and ways of thinking, we begin to become separated from our humanity. We become less humane.
This show is so excellent you wish you can watch it for ever
Great interview!
Not enough time for him....I'll find him though. Thanks for having him on.
This segment totally dropped the ball on the deep historical issue: agriculture as not commensurate with hierarchy and state despotism, as argued by establishment scholars like James Scott with their utterly oxymoronic version of bourgeoise anarchism.
I dont understand why you did cut David instead of extending the length of the program....he was saying quite interesting things
Democracy Now is a radio program strictly limited to its 1-hour broadcast time. Also I think it seemed like David couldn't hear Amy saying his time was running out.
There is a fantastic and much longer interview with him on the Srsly Wrong podcast about this book, I extremely recommend that in addition to the book itself.
AMY ALWAYS cuts off her guests. Their editing dept. is amateurish.
@@pohakumana what editing? this is a live radio program that airs daily for one hour and is recorded.
@@mc-funk EDITED into smaller YT videos uploaded here.
Programming director not timing interviews well.
great... thank you for sharing the scholarship.
i so appreciate and some times crave hearing scholarship of people who have worked to gather knowledge
After years of research……..he pushed for a different vision for another world.
Thank you Amy/Juan...crew!! Just found this broadcast I've missed..
David Wengrow, you plowed straight thru to the end. That was awesome.
Cherokee People -- Paul Revere & The Raiders
Doubleback -- ZZTop
Don't Let Another Captain Captain Your Boat -- Abney Park
Agree to fairness first. Debt problem as are all other problems caused by unfairness of some sort.
Thank you!
Interesting. I have already bought it, and looking forward to read and learn. Thanks for introducing new books, ideas, and interesting authors.
Late David Graeber was great. In explaining that 5000 years of Bureaucracy and Debt has botched and diseased everything we use as a system. Which is true. Which further gave me the idea of Democracy Now (re)christian as Bureaucracy Now (All the signs of rot visible and audible)
Your choice of wording could use some simplification and clarity. I honestly have no idea what your point is. We don't exist in your mind.
@@wj3186 You have no education?
@@wj3186 imo writing statements like that show only how entangled one is with their own notions, it is odd that I got a whiff of anti-christian sentiment (mixed in with a curse to usury and the imperialist nature of bureaucracy) written like a parable, something that needs much interpretation lol
@@wj3186 simply meant that we live inside a system which is rotten and chokehold of bureacracy. Even this mainstream media is an example of Bureacracy.
@@impresauro3210 as for interpretation... Check out 5000 years of Debt and Slavery by David Greber. While your at it, also Karl Popper Open Society and it's Enemies
Oh, this is the kind of thing I've been looking for. Gotta get me that book. Thanks Amy, and everyone at Democracy Now. Also always wanted to look more into the Occupy movement. Thanks Graeber, where ever you are.
Can you please edit your interviews instead of interrupting your guest by yelling how much more time you'll allow them to speak? It's really annoying...
I love this. Thank you!
Specifically on his commenting on large societies without a strict hierarchy, I was just looking over some findings on the Cucuteni culture whose physical remains point to exactly that.
My thoughts immediately went there, too (and thanks for reminding me of the right consonants). Their civilization seems to have lasted 1,000 yrs, n'est-ce pas? and right in the middle of Europe. Look it up - a huge city even before the Mesopotamian ones.
@@cathjj840 Indeed, and they were only one of several other such cultures. The Cucuteni specifically were among the first to have had contact with those we today call Indo-Europeans.
There's an interesting book titled _Towns larger than Cities_ along the lines of your statement about how these population centers were actually bigger than the Mesopotamian cities.
Graeber is the reason I am an anthropologist. Rest in power, it’s a shame I’ll never get to meet him.
Of course, he gets to the core problem of narcissism in our culture and humbling the ego and David 5 seconds, no 5 hours!!!
I read in a book that the Iroquois had ideals and practices that were on par with the Enlightenment in Europe.
"On par"? The enlightenment didn't occur until... the 16th/17th century? Iroquois had been around far longer than that. No... the european was approaching some semblance of enlighted thought when the indigenous were already well versed.
@@scientifico 🤔 You may have misinterpreted the use of ‘on par’ here. I take it to mean of equal stature, not of equal longevity.
Indeed, Washington among others recognized there was conscious input from the Iroquois Confederation's political organization that was borrowed when concocting the Constitution. (It predated the arrival of the European conquerors by several centuries).
Why can’t you finish the interview? Isn’t this an independent media? Thanks.
I'll read the book to see what peer reviewed scholarship it contains, but I'm always skeptical about scholars who start out with a dearly held personal viewpoint and then seek out evidence that might support it while avoiding or rejecting valid evidence contrary to their viewpoint. There is no question that Graeber held some very strong beliefs about the flaws in "traditional" Western civilization, its organization, and its philosophical underpinnings before he wrote this book. That doesn't mean his conclusions are necessarily wrong, but it does raise reasonable concerns about his objectivity which can only be resolved by a close reading of his book. I'll be reading it and giving Graeber a fair chance to show me my concerns are unwarrented.
Who is Will Gray?
,very important topic of conversation. Top of the list of important discussion for my choice.
It's way past time that we see some honest assessment of the greater integrity of our(indigenous) wholistic MANDATES.
Amy 'can you TALK about' Goodman. On her show, she always cuts in "We have ten seconds", but also finds time to sign off reading an interminable list of names of anybody who is involved at any level in the production of Democracy Now.
I do follow history and love new discoveries and this is one. I look forward to the book. As a mature woman, why are we women always not there or are an afterthought in every historical account? As if. My life experience tells me men need the woman's backup ideas or we escalate to war or failure.
My line I detest: "mankind is given to war..." Only men. Women are not inclined to war, and we are 1/2 of society. Stop saying "mankind" and just say 'men'. MEN ENGAGE IN WAR. Women do not. Don't say Mankind if you men Men.
I love David Graeber!
David Graeber and Mark Fisher are greatly missed
Interesting! That's what we need, other ways to see things...forgotten things that worked well in the past..
Currently reading BS Jobs, another book of his also worth reading. Borrow it from your local library!
STAR NATION. Humans repressed and regressed over time. They walk a path of the "Me" ownerships instead of being awake for something so much more wholesome.
Anarchy is our only solution! Peace Love Anarchy
I don´t understand why you need to stop so hard in this format - such a pity.
and yes, I am wondering because I´d love to hear more of this...
Thanks for this coverage. This was extremely interesting!
New book. Awesome!
Unfortunately the vast majority of people in wealthy country's such as N.A were I live don't want change that's going to be final nail in the proverbial coffin
N.B. for closed caption users: He says “part of that social “milieu”, not “part of …social media” @ 7:14.