Owner-Operator Costs of Forestry Mulching: Cutter Tools
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2017
- Information on replacement cutter tools for forestry mulcher that will be useful to new business operators when they develop their Owner-Operator Cost analysis.
Finding detailed O&O Costs are difficult to develop due to lack of public information out there. I hope this information is helpful.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC
Located : Clarksville, TN
W: 931.802.5910
C: 757.871.5026 (call or text)
www.cfsmulching.com
ClevingerForestServices - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I love commerce, and am a retired business owner. I enjoy these forest services videos, but I'll tell you this. Other than you I would bet dollars to donuts almost none of these operators know what their hourly costs are. They work from job to job and live on cash flow hoping they don't run into a problem. I heard one supposedly successful operator say he went to give a yearly quote to a rather large customer and the guy mentioned to him his timing was good because he was doing a five year plan and the cost of maintaining his acreage was important. The forestry guy said - "pfffttttt - who works on a five year plan?" My answer would have been "everyone who is looking to be successful and not just interested in a daily paycheck." Your slice of info provided in this video is more valuable to anyone looking to get into this business than all the "method" videos put together. It is because it makes them think about the cost of doing business. I always thought - it's not how much money you make, it's how much money you keep. By the way, it's a good man who shares his hard won secrets. I wish you continued success.
Best Rgds.............
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful and insightful comment, Batt Mann. I agree with you on all counts.
I don't mind sharing some information to help someone out who has a true entrepreneurial spirit to make a go a something in their life. I don't waste my time who ask the types of questions that give away their total lack of research of business understanding. I believe in a kind of karma, and I do see the returns from helping others. That's part of what makes me tick, along with running my small business successfully for the last six years.
Not enough can ever be said for your taking the time to fully explain the system you have. Thank you very, very much!
Ron Gray I really appreciate that, Ron. I'm glad you found my video helpful. That's why I make these. Don't forget to Like & Subscribe so the TH-cam algorithm will recommend this video to others who may find it helpful too. Thanks.
Thanks for the detail of operator costs of the blade. Does Bobcat credit you for each tooth you turn in when you replace them?
Is there a big demand for a forest mulcher, where a retired person looking for a side business could make a little profit?
I’ll take solid information over production, humor, and filmmakers every day. This was informative and extremely helpful/useful information. Thank you very much!
Thanks for that comment, Tim. I definitely didn’t make these videos to show my face and become a TH-cam star😆
I own a Bobcat T870 and E145 thinking about buying a mulching head. This video is MOST helpful. Many Thanks and Blessings.
Hi my dad has a fairly new mulcher hasn’t use it since he got injured if interested I’ll send you some pics
@@brycebickham6345 Thanks Bryce I would be interested is seeing pics.
This was very helpful in understanding the costs! Thank you for your efforts. I wish you the best!
Glad it was a useful video for you, Rich. Appreciate you watching.
Appreciate the time you took to explain the costs involved in forestry mulching. Hope this helps some folks understand why forestry mulching is not a "low bidder" or "just use a mower & a chainsaw" type of business.
Yes, it's an expensive piece of equipment. Owner's should have a thorough understanding of Owning & Operating Cost to run this equipment, and then set their prices so they can be successful and stay in business. Customers should understand that these forestry mulching machines are the most cost effective method to clearing brush for almost every application.
Thanks for your comment!
Great video, I am from Waverly, TN...just 45 miles south of Clarksville.
gene richardson Well hey neighbor! I do lots of work out your way. I appreciate you watching my videos, Gene💯👍
Appreciate the video, I just purchased a Denis Cimaf for my 308 and am really excited to get it running! Love seeing the options from an informed operator, cheers,
the Top Rock Project I'd like you to follow up with me after you get the feel for that Denis Cimaf head on your 308. That's exactly the set-up I've been planning on as an addition to my business. That capability of having the extra reach would be very useful in a lot of situations. Please let me know what you think of the cutting effectiveness of the head, and also about the routine maintenance of it, such as time to sharpen and cost of teeth.
Thanks for your input, Top Rock!
Definitely, lets keep in touch!
Excellent information. Thank you very much for this video Mr. Clevinger.
Cody Bailey Good to hear that you found it useful, Cody. Appreciate that.
Very well done. I appreciate that you were prepared and knew what you wanted to cover. That was awesome. Thanks
Jim H Thanks, Jim. Hope the info was useful.
Thank you for the videos. I’m starting a brush mowing business, and hopefully adding a forestry muncher in the future.
I have a older bobcat excavator I will use for small jobs and plan on renting a machine for larger jobs until I know I can survive in the business before buying a new machine.
So far I’ve created my LLc, quoted my insurance and bond. Opened accounts at united rentals and local Bobcat dealer. Created signs and business cards.
I have my first job this spring mowing about 10 miles of roadside for a HOA.
Hi Collin- Sounds like you are ready to rock.
Since you sound concerned about "surviving" in business, the trick is to manage the risk. There are to primary aspects to surviving in business: Getting customers, and ensuring that you are charging those customers the right amount to sustain your business.
Easy, free way to get customers looking for brush-mowing or forestry mulching, is to make sure you can be found on the internet. SEO-Search Engine Optimization, is very important. So use online resources that have SEO built into it, like making a business Facebook page, and post on Craigslist in your local area. These two things are free and easy to do. The majority of customers you get, will be searching for this service online, and these sites will pop up for them. So have an online presence, and be found. And of course being professional and honest will generate additional customers through repeat and word-of-mouth.
Once you have a customer, you have to make sure that the price you are charging is both competitive and will cover your operational costs and profit margin. So make sure you know what your business's Owner-Operator Costs and profit margin number is. So if you estimate your jobs right, you will not have to be concerned if you will be surviving. You will know that you are covering costs and making profit for each job you do.
Good luck to you.
Great video showing the cost of running a mulcher.
Brian Gardiner Thanks Brian. I want to post more Owner-Operator Cost videos. I think they're informative for people who want to get into the business. I'm also getting responses from some people with suggestions on how they cut costs, which is good feedback.
You basically explained all the questions I
had. thank you so much. greatly appreciated!!!
Awesome! Glad my information was helpful to you!
Facinating to see others who have the same setup. I have a 2016 T770 (Tier 4 final) with the Bobcat branded Fecon mulch head. After watching your video, I'm convinced I need to swap out the inner half or so with new cutters. Thanks a ton for the video! I'm an owner operator in southeastern NC, but not a retail operator. Our machine works only on our land, so our business model is a little different than most people who have this setup.
Good to know this info helped somebody out there, Chris.
These 770 is a great machine for doing land maintenance, whether it's with the mulcher, grapple, or bucket. It's just way better than a tractor for some jobs. How are you using your machine?
We have property kind of like what you mulched in your two videos, "12-month Residual Effects of Forestry Mulching" video and "9-month Residual Effects of Forestry Mulching" video. So we buy clear cut land, 3-5 years (sometimes more) of unmanaged growth. Then we buy at a discount because the property doesn't have much economic value. We clear and reposition as development lots or replant in loblolly. I'm new at this, still getting the hang of it. But sold 1 lot in 2017 that made the equivalent of 12 months or so payments on the equipment.
You shouldn't have said that out loud! Haha! You'll give away the secrets of owning a forestry mulcher! Anything can be flipped, including raw land, when you have the right equipment that creates a value-added combination. You sound like you have a good plan going on. That's exciting. Good luck with it👍
Awesome video...great explanation of the equipment. Thank you so much and God bless.
Jim Newman Thank you, Jim. Glad you found my video informative.
Thank you very much for you time to explain all this. Very much appreciated.
Glad it was helpful, Felix!
I used to live in Woodlawn and I did forestry mulching with a guy out of Ashland City. We ran a Fecon 148 machine, but I don't think he's around any more. I'm looking to get back into this business as an owner operator, but with a different set up than you have. Thanks for doing a cost analysis of doing this kind of business.
You bet, Rob. It's important to know all the numbers before getting started in this business. It's expensive to get in to, so it's important to do the homework and risk assessment.
Yiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeeeeee!
An excellent video . You mentioned all the basics but very important things anyone would have to deal with regarding the use of rotary drum type mulcher. Thanks for the video.
Ruben Calixerio Thanks for that comment, Ruben, I appreciate that!
Nice information video. Thanks for sharing.
David Jackson You bet, David. Appreciate your comment. Let me know if there's anything particular you want to see or hear about forestry mulching.
Thanks for taking the time buddy. Its appreciated.
You bet, Scott. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Best info Ive seen so far thank you very much
dennis stephenson Glad it was helpful. Appreciate your comment, Dennis👍
many thanks,,huntsville alabama here,,i really needed this post and cost information,,,
Glad it was helpful!
Good video. Thank you.
Good video, I sell Bobcat in the UK and learned a few things.
Phil Stoneham Thanks, Phil, that's good to hear that I'm putting out useful information. An owner/operator of a specific attachment should be an expert about the details for running it. Thanks for watching my videos.
U r a good man my friend.
GOD BLESS U!
Thanks, Saad, I appreciate your comment!
Very interested learned a lot very informative thank you for sharing it
Anonymous Its good to hear you found my video informative. I appreciate you watching. Please Like & Subscribe to my channel so TH-cam will make it available to others who might find it useful.
From Canada... thanks for the info... heading out to mulch some igloo's.
HAHA! Send video!
Great info. Thank you for sharing. Great video.
You bet, Don. Appreciate you watching.
Thanks for the valuable info that you share in this vídeo.
I'm willing to get a setup like your in the future . So this information really helps.
Thanks again
Good to hear my info was helpful to you. If you’re interested in figuring the cost of doing business, I’d also recommend two other videos I made showing how to calculate Ownership Cost and Operating cost.
Great stuff Dave! Love the videos
Rhett Cheatwood Thanks for that comment Rhett. Just trying to put out videos and some info of the things I would like to know and be interested in watching for the machine's capabilities.
Rhett Cheatwood Hey thanks Rhett!
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
660stihl Thanks for the comment. If there are any specific topics you'd like to see addressed, just let me know.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Of course!
I appreciate you making this video. Very useful!
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I was just about to add a comment very similar to the comment below me. I work with a tree cutting company and do a lot of stump grinding and I find we can grind the carbides with a diamond wheel and get a couple more uses out of them. It's not complex just with an angle grinder and a diamond wheel and just touch him up put another Edge on them and they're good to go again. Considering how much they cost I think it might be well worth the try. Good luck thanks for the video
Mike o Yes, a diamond wheel is the way to go when trying to sharpen carbides to get a little more time out of them. At a certain point, there is just not enough carbide left to grind down before the other metal of the tooth comes into play and you just can’t get the right geometry for an edge.
Thank you very much for this video, I had no idea how expensive it can be.
It is an expensive business. This size Bobcat runs about $82,000. Mulcher drum heads run $25-$36,000.
@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 thank you for your reply, that is so expensive in my case, by the time I get it it will be around 150k NZD :( such a nice machine
Thank you for sharing this info…very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Just found this video and really appreciate not just the great information, but the fact you always respond to the comments. That says something about your business model. I also own a Bobcat T770 with a Bradco mulcher which I bought for maintaining
my own 300 acres of land in Virginia. Like you, it was a steep learning curve to learn what the machine can and can't do. Once I get done with a project here in Virginia (we are building a large home for orphans called the Aloha House of Hope), I'm thinking of hiring out myself with my mulcher. What type of trailer and truck do you use to haul your equipment with? Oops. Just saw your other video that answered my question. Thanks!
Doug Spencer Glad you found some useful information in my videos. Appreciate you watching them. I think the T770 is a very capable machine to do a lot of the tasks needed to clean up and work larger pieces of land. Having a mulcher, grapple, and a bucket will help get a lot of work done.
Thats a great vision and goal you have going on there too. Good luck with that💯👍
Hi Doug, I live in VA as well and just starting to look into forestry machinery. I’m also very curious about your House of Hope project too! Sounds very cool. How has your mulching projects gone?
David Coats Hi David! We are in Burkeville and the Lord sent us here from Maui to build a home for orphans Currently we have 5 kids, but have room for at least 20 more, Lord willing. We just moved into the new house yesterday. You can email me at douginmaui@gmail.com.
Wow great video!! Thanks!!!👍👍
Glad you liked it!
Great video it's really good to have someone who will give out FREE information about this field everyone one around Virginia will tell me it's a bad business to start I am a roofer now and this type of work really gets me excited and I just want to start my own business in forestry mulching do you have any more advice for this business
TCC I The only place forestry mulching is a bad business to get into is if you live in a big city. Everywhere else there is good demand for this service. Whether or not someone has a successful and sustainable business depends on that individuals specific business costs and business sense, and work habits.
As far as tips, I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have. You can ask here, or shoot me an email: dclevinger@cfsmulching.com
And there is a lot of good information in the discussion sections if you view other videos I've posted. Lots of answers to questions others have asked, and others provided good ideas too.
Thanks for the video that’s good information mate especially the cost on running it thanks
Glad to hear the information was helpful to you, Jimmy.
Brilliant, thanks. (from New Zealand)
Hope the info was useful. Thanks for watching from beautiful New Zealand, Ross.
Enjoyed the video I have a brush mover seems to be holding up good.
WildcatWilly Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching!
Good vid! Thank u for info
hey nice video do you have any tips on getting started in this business and any pros and cons
Pro: Satisfaction of owning your own business
Con: Every aspect of business success depends on you, and there are no days off from being engaged in it.
As far as a tip on getting started;
That's a very broad subject, and I can answer specific questions if you have any. Generally speaking-
when starting any business you have to figure out the numbers (costs) to answer the question if its going to be financially viable based on your personal financial conditions, and the market area you will be servicing.
-First step in figuring these numbers out is to develop a very detailed Owner & Operating Cost worksheet. This inputs every cost associated with this specific type of business, and will output a cost per hour that you will need to charge customers to be a sustainable business.
-Second step is to look at the market/customer area you are located in, and estimate the customer demand and hours for your service. This is obviously a tricky estimation, but you should at least figure out what is an acceptable range of minimum & maximum number of customer demand hours.
-Third step is to compare your O&O cost per hour, to your minimum customer demanded hours. This will give a black and white answer if this will be a viable/sustainable business. Business is about managing & mitigating risks, and emotions can't be a driver in this business analysis.
So that's my tip, and I hope it helps.
awsome vedio, and explaination of cost associated with a mulcher head..
Glad to hear the info was useful to you, Johnny. Appreciate you watching.
This was a great video 📹 👏 👍 thanks a lot !!
Glad to hear it was informative for you, Courtney. I appreciate you watching.
Can’t say how much I appreciate your videos. I was curious if your skid steer tracks have required changing, what does and does not damage them, and what does replacing them cost? I hear conflicting reports on their durability.
I appreciate you watching my videos.
I only drive my machine on dirt and minimally on gravel. I don't drive it on concrete or asphalt, so I don't get that hard wearing on my tracks. Also, a good operator will turn the machine using more of a K-Turn, and not a pivoting skid on the tracks. I've had to replace tracks due to being worn out, but I did break one years ago, probably due to bad operator technique. I currently have about 2000 hours on my set of tracks, and they have 45-50% of tread remaing. I've never had to buy a set of new tracks, but I believe a set costs roughly $2,200 for the U-Tread type through my Bobcat dealer. The durabilty will vary wildly between operators and the ground conditions they are working on. I only work in forests and farms.
I have seen them get reground for reuse and also one company I had worked with, when the tips are no good they removed the tips and welded with some great rod new steal tips that lasted, but not as long as the carbide one, but they could be rewedded and reused many times, and how true about the centre ones wear out quicker then the outer ones.
Thanks for the comment Shane. I initially tried hand grinding the carbide tips with a diamond flap-wheel grinder, but it took way too many hours and it didn't come out great since it was done by hand.
Also took it to a commercial machine shop to see if they could grind an edge better, but that also did not come out great.
Also took it to a company that specializes in replacing carbide tips on stump-grinder and other logging type equipment, and they said they could not duplicate the shape of the double-pointed teeth that are on my cutters. So I've kind of hit a dead-end with refurbishing these things, and now just pay for new teeth and accept it as the cost of doing business.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC try a hardfacing rod it will save you money.
Great video! Thanks. Do you have to replace the bolts each time? I know most people don't do that, but most people don't do things correctly either.
Blake Maximus Thanks Blake.
Yes, I replace the bolts when I put new teeth on. The main reason I do, is because I don’t want to wear/round the socket of the hex head socket bolt. I used to re-use the bolts when I paid $129 per tooth kit. I stripped the head one time, and it took me two days to drill out the HSS hardened bolt. Now I use a fresh hex bit, and fresh bolts. I use an air hammer for this.
I have found a cheaper supplier of teeth since I made this video. XtremeWearParts.com sells this tooth kit (two bolts, two washers, bushing, and tooth) for $79 delivered. And I DO NOT lock-tight the bolt threads. I actually coat the new threads with an anti-seize.
Love this, nice job and thank you sir.
Nice to hear it. Thanks!
Excellent video. Informative. Thx
Glad it was helpful!
Your videos are so helpful, thank you! I’m thinking of getting the bobcat t770, I have a Farm in NY, after I finish what I need to do on my property I was thinking of getting into the forestry mulching business. Any advice? Stay away? Or go for it? Thanks John
John N Thanks, John. That's exactly how I started. I needed this machine to work on my farm- mulching, grapple work, bucket work, brush mowing. I thought if I could just do enough business to help defray the cost, that would be great. I figured if I needed these kind of services done on my land, then other people must need it too. I've been going strong in business since Sep 2014.
Excellent breakdown. The hourly ROI was very detailed. Thanks, wondering if you have tried doing some sharpening or taking them in for re-tooling to get some longevity out of the cutter heads?
Thanks. I’ve looked into sharpening. Not possible with these.
Aloha Thank you for taking the time to share your information!! Looking to more of your video's.
Do you have any tips on how to get clients or who to contact. Mahalo!!
what looking for Glad you find my information useful to you.
I'm located in central Tennessee in Clarksville. I've never had to pay for advertising for this forestry mulching business. I put ads on Craigslist under Services Offered> Farm & Garden.
I also have an online presence with my website, a business Facebook, and TH-cam channel.
Since I've also been in this business for 3-1/2 years I get a lot of repeat customers and word of mouth referrals.
At one point in y career I was a welder/machinist. I really appreciate how detailed you are. Do you know if anyone can remanufacture the cutting teeth? Seems like you could build it up and then machine the angles. The question is, could someone do that at a cost that is worth buying something other than new. Do you know if that can be done?
I’ve talked to two machine shops, and a shop that refurbishes smaller carbide cutter teeth used on stump grinders, and all of them said they could not refurbish or “re-sharpen” the carbides on these teeth. Too much material on both the carbide tip inserts, and the metal carbide-holder block, that it’s not practical/doable.
Add on to the below long comment - looking carefully at your used teeth, as you say, the top edge is the real cutting point. So back grind the steel behind the carbide, therefore giving you space to grind the carbide to the correct angle. I do this and saw shops also as a standard practice to get more life out of a standard table saw blade when the carbide gets level with the backing steel. You could do this a few times at least. Since the ferco heads do not have cutting depth limiters, the height of each tooth is unimportant.
Richard Raucina I'll see what a local saw shop can do about that. This drum spins at over 1600 RPM and weighs over 1000 lbs, so it has to remain in balance to a certain degree.
Great, they should have some ideas. Lot of retired wood workers out there with a small saw shop, or used to be before china started making saw blades for a few dollars. As for balance, I have a flail mower that broke off a segment and mounting tooth. Took the whole head out since it needed new bearings anyway, took it to the Mfg. in Hughson, Ca. nearby. Virissimo - They put the 54" long head on their balancer and welded on new a new tooth holder for $160. But this head weighs maybe 1/4 of yours.Point being, you have to knock off a tooth mount before too much worry about balance. They are starting to make some mulch heads but have not looked into them yet. As for balance, you could just weigh each tooth and grind to an average.
Very nice video! Thanks!
Thanks, Cliff!
Great info thank you !
You bet! Lots of great information in the comment sections of each of my videos.
Thank you kind sir!!
adorkableguy You bet! Glad you enjoyed it.
Mr. Clevinger, thanks for the great video. I have a similar head...a 2010 John Deere MH60, made by Fecon. As you probably know, Fecon is the OEM manufacturer for John Deere and Bobcat mulchers (they recently stopped making heads for Bobcat, but still do for JD); your Bobcat head looks nearly identical to mine. In regards to changing bolts. my manual states "tooth cap screws should be discarded after second use", so clearly its a good idea to change them as you do.
Have you tried the knife type teeth? I have those installed now due to the prior owner. I don't see the advantage in knives over carbide. I'd say you get 100=/-20% hours on knives, and 300=/-20% hours on carbide. Does that sound about right? Knife teeth chip, carbide teeth mulch (I prefer mulching). I can get knives from the local JD for $41 each, and carbide for $114 each. So carbide tools get about 3x the hours at about 2.7 times the cost, plus you save on tooth cap bolts and labor/time (less frequent changing). What's your thoughts? Any advantage of a knife over carbide?
AGT Tactical Great comments and question!
First, The soil in this area of Tennessee is cherty/rocky for the most part, so for that reason I only use carbide teeth. I prefer the durability, and not having the labor cost of sharpening blade teeth daily.
I average about 300 hours on my carbide teeth. Some people would probably run them longer, but When I feel like they are not mulching efficiently I change them. I don't run them until they are rounded nubs of metal, like I see some operators do. That's also not good for your machine when you force it to work and Bob it down.
From other operators I talk to who use knives, they say they get about 80 hours life out of a double sided knife. So your numbers are right in line with theirs.
For my 2-cents on the forestry mulching business, I think as an operator, it's all about being cost effective, not necessarily producing small little wood chips that customers are impressed by. To me, customers just want their big mess gone. Making mulch with carbides in the same amount of time as making smaller chips with knives is perfectly fine if you are doing it at a cheaper operating cost.
Since I made this video talking about the cost of teeth, I found a supplier who is less expensive than Bobcat. Check out XtremeWearParts.com
They are out of Canada, and I get the same carbide tooth, two bolts, two washer, and the centering bushing all for $79 and that includes delivery. Bobcat's price is $129 for a tooth kit. So at $79 for 300 hours, I add in $7.90 per hour to my operator cost. Instead of $12.90 with the original Bobcat teeth prices. That's significant. I haven't checked out what XtremeWearParts charges for knives, but it might be cheaper than $41 if you like running those. But for me, because of the soil conditions here, plus I don't want the labor costs of sharpening and changing teeth that often, I prefer carbides 100% over knives.
@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 Thanks for the knowledge.
@@mrjon75 You bet👍
Highering a out of Oakdale 46 miles from my site South west of Crossville. $150 hrs. Didn't see this till after hired him. Thanks. Was wondering about cost to own and operate.
Robert Packett I'd say $150/hour for this size skidsteer forestry mulcher is the median price that operators charge nationwide. A few are cheaper, a few are more expensive. This machine itself costs $82,000 new, mulcher head cost $23,000. Plus big truck and trailer, support equipment, insurance, fuel, etc. it's an expensive business to run, so the hourly cost to customers reflects that. But forestry mulching is still the most cost effective way to clear land. Hope your project turned out well, Robert.
Subscribed. Good info. I run a small dozer biz in Texas and wandered how much those teeth cost. I would think there is way too much rock in my area for one to be cost effective. Guys run them here for around 150/hr. Then again, I still get called out after some of them to clean up. They could learn a thing or 2 from your vids lol
Appreciate that good comment.
I guess as long as they calculate into their costs buying lots of replacement teeth, then I guess they can make it work. But if the ground is that covered up with rocks, most people wouldn't clear it since it wouldn't be useable for too much, like livestock. Sounds like a dozer might be the right tool to use to clear the ground of the brush and the rocks. I know its no fun driving a dozer on big rocks either.
Thanks! You explained it well. I have a better handle on associated costs with the mulcher.
Great! Glad this information was helpful to you, Aaron.
Great video, thank you. When you put new teeth on, what size is the material after you much it? 8" minus (ballpark)?
The size really depends on the material. Most material gets mulched anywhere from fines to smaller mulch chips, but some types of larger wood can either be stringy or brittle, and will shred or bust up into lager chunks up to a couple of feet long. The more you back-drag over it the more it will break down. How small you want the finished product to look is a time (cost) trade-off.
Thank you for the video
I appreciate you watching, Dennis. Don't forget to Like & Subscribe, this helps get this video out to more viewers who may find this information helpful, too.
Question? What season does equipment work best in? Thinking less heat on blades is best accomplished in in cold seasons?
Fall, Winter, Spring temperatures are definitely the best. Everything on the machine runs cooler, and there is also less water and sap in the trees, so it makes it better mulching them in cooler temps.
Outstanding Video!
Thanks, Will 👍👍
Thanks for the information 👍
No problem 👍
hey like that that's really good video I really appreciate that cuz I'm looking into doing that but not for a business but I do want to own some property I got 10 acres or more so I could do that I will be considering moving to Ohio in about two to three years so I love that information that you put out keep doing what you doing don't be shy don't hide it divide it LOL!!!
Adrien Green That's a good saying,"Don't hide it, divide it". You definitely have to have some kind of good machine to do land maintenance when you own property.
Good video. Awesome info.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the info.
Hope the info was helpful to you! Thanks for watching.
I miss Clarksville TN quiet and clean town.
Clarksville is a good area, and its nice being close to Nashville for those amenities.
We’d like to clean out some woods on our farm and am trying to learn about the different types of heads (front attachments) that would be good for clearing brush, saplings and small trees. About 15 years ago, I had another woods cleaned out. However, I’m a bit uncertain as to which type of head would be best for this job. What types of heads are available and what would you suggest for my project? I’m in Pennsylvania and we have some rocky areas and rock outcropping.
BTW, you’re in Hickok45 country if you didn’t already know. He’s one of my favorite TH-camrs.
Hi Tricia- The forestry mulchers that are used by professionals are the drum type, as shown in this video. There are also rotary, or disc, mulchers as well, but those don’t have same capabilities as a drum mulcher.
As far as the best brands of forestry mulchers, Fecon, FAE, and Denis Cimaf are the most commonly used by professionals in this business.
I know that lots of areas in PA can be very rocky. Depending on how rocky your property is, clearing brush and trees from it with a mulcher may not be possible. I normally ask customers what their goal is for clearing their land, because if you are going to spend money to clear it, you will need to have a plan to maintain it, either by mowing or putting livestock on it to eat the future growth.
If there are large rocks everywhere, it’ll be hard to operate any type of equipment on it. If the rocks are confined to certain areas, then a mulcher can clear around them. Just depends on how rocky it is.
I don’t know who Hickok45 is, but I look them up on TH-cam. I’m about 40 miles north-west of Nashville, TN.
I operated an air track once upon a time, drilling granite for explosives. We using tungsten carbide drill head witch needed resharpening every 4 Meters of hole. We used whats called a green stone grinding wheel, not the normal grey grinding wheel . Could be worth a look?
Great information
joemc111 Thanks Joe. Glad it was useful info.
Great Job Young Man!!!!!
I appreciate you watching!
Thank you. Very useful
Thanks, Alan!
Amazing content and knowledgeable advice. I read through every question and comment. Thank you for sharing your experience
Thanks, Chris. Yes, the video content is informative, but the comment sections have very thorough answers to questions people have asked over the years.
@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 I am also retired from the Army like yourself. Just purchased a T-86 with multiple attachments. Would you be interested in having a conversation, I would greatly appreciate this if you had some time to talk. I am located in the panhandle of Florida.
Chris
Great video
William Odaniel Thanks William. Appreciate your comment. What do you want to see and or hear in a forestry mulching video that'll be helpful or interesting?
Just ordered a t770 to replace my asv, do you ever have any hydraulic temp problems running that head? And does it have a hydraulic temp gauge?
Brad Blanchard You'll be happy with your new T770. It does have a analog hydraulic temp and fuel gauge on the upper left side, and if you got the deluxe instrumentation 5" LCD display, then it has two different displays that show all of the temps and pressures plus fuel burn in gph.
The only time I ever have hydraulic over-temps is due to operator error. Either the air intake screen is covered solid in leaves/debris, or running the head too aggressively and prolonged so it keeps getting bogged down to a stop. I make sure my radiators are blown clean before starting each day, I clean off the rear air intake screen when I see the hyd temp rising, and I try to never bog the cutter down to a stop. If the operator follows these three things, then the t770 fans will keep everything running fine. And I've run the mulcher hard for 7 straight hours in 95 degree weather and not had the hydraulics overheat.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC thanks for the reply! Only thing mine doesn't have is the 3/4" forestry door, it has the 1/2" polycarbonate door.
Yea, I'm not familiar with how impact resistant the 1/2" door windows are. But I do know that rocks, pieces of logs, and other debris have impacted my windshield so violently that it made me jump inside the machine, and some have left dings in my glass about 1/8" deep. So I was glad I had this bullet-proof glass. And I do believe this is literally bullet-proof, multi-layered polycarbonate glass.
Brad Blanchard One additional comment about over-heating- Bobcats will beep and a yellow light symbol will come on if you are getting close to over-heating. This is a cue to check/clean debris off of the air intake screens, or refrain from bogging the cutter head. If you actually get to the critical temperature, Bobcats will either have a solid warning tone and tell you to shut off the engine, or the machine will automatically shut itself off. Keep all of your air filters and screens clean and you won't have any issues.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC good to know! And yea I called the bobcat dealer just to ask about the1/2" and he said it will be fine, the machine has 2,000 hours on it with a factory bobcat head so I guess if it went that long with it, it will be ok. If not I'll have to put out the 3,700$ for a forestry door. And yea it has the 5" screen too
Nice Vid!
I love all your videos this is what I want to do someday. Absolutely that polycarbonate front shield is the most important part how much is your life worth....
Thanks, Johny! I appreciate that you watch my videos. I try to make them informative.
Yes, that polycarbonate door saved me from flying debris many, many times. It's exciting to be an entrepreneur, so I hope you get your own successful business going soon.
Useful info, thnxs.
Thinking of picking up a used 2015 Bobcat T770HF with 1000 hours-your opinion versus the cost of a newer machine. A Diamond Disc mulcher or drum?
gotta compare apples to apples. that's a good machine but are you paying cash in full on new vs that one (good deal) or cash on that one vs 0% dealer financing on new with warranty (better deal). run yor #'s, only you can figure it out
I have a John Deere 333d and am considering a mulcher or rotary cutter. My property in Oklahoma is pretty rocky so I am wondering how each will hold up against the inevitable rock hits.
Patrick D'Spain Rocks and high speed spinning metal is a problem, but you just have to use common sense to decide if your area is rocky enough to be a problem for mulching.
Generally speaking, land-owner customers do not normally clear land that is too rocky or otherwise unusable. They have to be able to mow it or have livestock on it to maintain it. Other customer who may need areas cleared for obstruction purposes, like municipal and utility right-of-ways, just need it cleared and will pay the cost of getting it done. So it depends who your customers will be.
There are major differences between a drum forestry mulcher, and rotary cutters. They produce very different quality of results. Both have their place, so it depends who your customers will be.
Great video. What made you choose Bobcat over say Deere or Cat?
Also what is the service life of the machine before choosing to replace it? Thanks
Or one of the forestry skids like the ASV and others.
Charlie B I chose Bobcat because I determined that this machine and service support was clearly the best value for my money. The machine gives me all of the capabilities I was needing. Bobcat has the best forestry protection package. Bobcat has factory trained mechanics on my machine. Bobcat has great parts availability. Bobcat road service support is very responsive. Bobcat invented the skidsteer. I liked the Bobcat cab design and comfort the best, and it has a great seal that keeps dust out. The total life-cycle cost of running a Bobcat was cheaper than other brands. My Bobcats (I've had two so far) have been mechanically reliable and durable even using it in the demanding conditions of forestry mulching. I had the choice of several different brand dealers that were located in my city (Bobcat, Cat, Deere, and Kubota) I chose Bobcat. Cat was my second choice. Kubota does not have trained mechanics on-site for their forestry machines, and they seem to break down a lot, from my research. And Kubota is basically a tractor/farming implement dealership. Cat makes a good machine, but their forestry protection is not as good as Bobcat. Many Cat operators doing forestry mulching report they are susceptible to having engine fires due to woody debris entering
engine compartment. Other brands such as ASV/Terex, Case, Takehuci, etc, do not have dealerships near me, so I didn't even consider them. When you have a business, you need access to maintenance support and parts.
I don't know what the designed service life is for skidsteers, but for my business, I keep them under full factory warranty, so I trade my machines in for a new one every 3-years/2000 hours. This works well for me. Also, as far as taxes come in to play, I also fully depreciate the cost of the machine over this same 3-year period, so this is a great tax write-off against business revenues.
Excellent-comprehensive answer .@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164
Bill Mitchell Sometimes I just get on a roll, and all the thoughts of my experience just come spilling out. You need information to make decisions, so I hope this stuff is useful to somebody out there who needs it.
Thanks for the great video on Forestry Mulcher!!! Kudos to you!!! Comparing the Bobcat Forestry Mulcher to the PRIMETECH PT175 or PT300. The costs for mulching cutter heads are higher due to more heads. AND the costs of the machine itself $175K to $400K. Do you find the Bobcat can take down majority of the large trees and would the Primetech PT175 do the same work load more work load than the Bobcat Forestry Mulcher??? You did the 1 acre clearing with the Bobcat. Would the Bobcat work on a 40 acre clearing or would it be better with a Primetech PT 175 or PT 300? Just curious your view on the higher costs would it be worth it compared to the wear and tear on the Bobcat and the Mulcher???
Hi Tom- I definitely believe in getting the size machine that fits the specific work you plan on using it for. I focus on clearing building lots, home-owners that want to under-brush a few acres around their homes, farms with grown over fields, food plots, trails, etc. Things along those lines. I've cleared acres as large as 24-acres, but the material was 10-year old over growth, not 18" diameter trees. I stick to clearing brush and trees up in the 6'-8'-diameter range. I selected the Bobcat T770 for its foot-print size and weight, and because its designed to mulch trees up to the 6"-8"-diameter range. I don't mulch larger trees than that. The higher horsepower machines, like the PT-175 and -300 will do those bigger trees. It's important to calculate the Cost Per Hour to own and operate a specific piece of equipment. The larger machines will have a higher cost per hour, but the larger types of clearing jobs these machines are better suited for will pay the higher price for to get the work done.
This is the second video I’ve watched from you. Very informative! Excellent thank you. Gained a subscriber here. So there’s no way to sharpen them?
Glad my info was useful to you👍
Love the videos!! Is there any kinda of daily maintenance you do everyday when you are done with the machine? I know these machine have to tear up a lot just wondering what you might do to reuduce or prevent certain things happenin. also could you use this machine kinda like a stump grinder to a certain extent, For example cut down a larger tree with a chainsaw and then make the stump flush witht the ground using the mulcher just slowly eat away ate it?
Thanks, Hawkins, appreciate that.
Things I do after a day of mulching is:
-clean any debris off of the radiator cooling screens in the engine compartment
-check the hydraulic and engine oil levels
-gas it up for the next day
-windex the door and side windows clean
Between jobs I will always grease all the joint fittings, use compressed air to clean/blow off the engine air filter, and check my track tension. This takes about 30 minutes do.
Forestry mulching is very brutal on the machinery. I'd say 95% of the things that broke during mulching was cause by the operator (me!). Mostly breaking exposed hydraulic fitting and lines, and pulling the tracks off by pivoting over stumps. The first few hundred hours of using a forestry mulcher is a steep learning curve of how to operate it patiently and smartly, and safely. I could probably list 100+ good techniques and tips for operators. Too long to write down, but it sounds like a good idea for another video.
I did the stump thing this spring. It taught me how to put the tracks back on. 🤣@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164
Thanks for sharing
You bet. Thanks for watching.
Have you used a Disk type mulcher? Wondered if you had any feeling for the comparison between Drum and Disk?
Can those teeth be hardsurfaced?
A guy I know who owns a Deere 333 with a Diamond disk mulcher hired me with a Bobcat T770 with a drum forestry mulcher to clear about 7 acres of forest on his new farm to create pasture, if that tells you anything about disk mulchers. He said it worked good on smaller trees, but made a big mess with anything over 4"-diameters. He said he thought the disk would be good for doing maintenance clearing around the farm, but not serious tree mulching. And he hated all of the stumps and stauble that the disk left. Not good for livestock or tractor tires. I've heard the same things from other guys who have use disk mulchers. Drum mulchers are the only way to go if you plan on using it professionally.
I don't hard-face my carbide teeth, but I have heard that some operators do.
@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 Thanks for the reply. :)
Hey bud, appreciate your thoughts n advice running equipment n such. I had wondered about the glass n saftey. I have a 98 f763 bought new n has been a great machine n low hrs. I am retired for 12 yrs but feel the need n desire to start up a small business with skidsteer. Almost closing a deal on a near new t650.
Was just wondering what insurancetk n other expenses run you? I am a retired feild mechanic but don't like it much but fully capable. Thanks for the honest facts bvb found it interesting. I am up northern Michigan. Thanks Ty
Ty Clark Hey Ty- Just so you know, a T650 is not enough horsepower to run a forestry mulcher, in case that's what you are intending. Some of the business expenses for running a machine are: business liability insurance, machine insurance, monthly payment on machine, local business taxes on equipment, fuel, scheduled and unscheduled maintenance costs, cutter teeth replacement, truck payment and insurance, cost of website. Those are the big cost drivers.
@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 Thanks for the reply so soon, yup I realize that since yesterday looking into this venture. Just like farrier work, folks really don't understand the expense of a business as its allotttttttt of work n time. This business could put you in the poor house very quickly imho. Then at least a 4 or 6yd truck n trailers ect.
I do thank you very much for the heads up. I been looking at a 2017 Bobcat T870 as well. Do u like a steel track vs rubber? If solely used as land clearing I'd probably go steel, but all types of jobs may go rubber both wide tracks. It may be wiser at my age to go work for someone n let them have the headaches. lol
Been retired by force 12yrs now, just kicking this around. My number one pick would be a mulching head on a mid size excavator. Guess God will let me know this winter. Instill dream of a Toyota trd 4runner loaded. So who knows, appreciate the thoughts n concerns. Nice to know there's still good folks out there today. Ty
Ty Clark I agree- take your time and figure out what’ll make you happy going forward.
I’ve only experienced steel tracks on dozers I’ve rented. Much better traction than rubber tracks, but they also tear the ground up more. I don’t know what the maintenance difference would be with steel tracks.
I don’t have any complaints using 18”-wide rubber tracks for the work conditions I’m in. The traction is fine for the slopes I limit myself to, and I’ve never torn up a customers driveway or yard by driving over it. The rubber tracks last a long time working in the soft soil of forests. I traded my first machine at 1800 hours, and it still had 50-60% tread life left.
This may be a dumb question, but how do you go about charging people? Do you bill them after, before, or how? Any input would be appreciated! Awesome videos by the way! Big fan of them
Richard Briseño I give customers a job estimate, then I work by the hour. Some customers pay me the day I finish the job, others I email them an invoice and they pay by check or credit card.
Thanks for the info which Mulcher head you think is the most durable and looking to buy one to use in Tx
I use a Fecon mulcher, and its very heavy duty, easy to get to everything in it, and its reliable. So Fecon is a good one. Many other operators also use FAE mulchers. These are probably the two most durable and reliable mulcher heads.
What kind of hydraulic temps are you seeing while Mulching? I'm seeing 180-205 in my t770
Brad Blanchard My T770 runs in that same range while mulching. To keep an efficient time cutting pace, I always keep focused on keeping that cutter engaged into the wood and keeping the non-cutting time, like driving around to an absolute minimum. So my hydraulics are always under high PSI with little recovery time for cooling before being engaged into wood again. But keeping that drum RPM up to speed is also very important, so I try to never lush into trees so aggressively that I'm repeatedly bogging it down to a stop over a long period of time while cutting. It takes some patience.
Most important things I found to keep hyd temps in normal range:
1) blow the dirt off the air filter before every job
2) keep leaves off your air inlet screen covering the engine deck during jobs. This is the biggest cause of high temps
3) keep your hyd fluid and engine coolant radiators cleaned off of the finer material that gets through the air inlet screen. This is the 2nd main cause of high temps
4) if all of the filters, radiators, and screens are clean and you still hit 210 on the hyd temp, then it's because either the operator is not keeping drum RPM up and bogging it down too often, or also the teeth are getting to dull and it's causing the drum to work harder than you are use to.
An additional, but lesser factor, is the outside air temperature.
When I run, I'll run the machine at full power, 2400 RPM for 6 straight hours until I need fuel, and it can be 95 degrees outside. I eat and drink in my machine. So if everything is cleaned off and I'm patient with keeping the cutter head RPM up while cutting, then I never have hyd over-temp issues. When I see the temp up around 205-209, it reminds me to get out and clean of the air inlet screen and check if anything is building up on the radiators. Cleaning those off will drop the temps way back to 180. That's been my experience anyway.
Couple things managing the hyd temps that I found:
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC think you could shoot me a text in having some issues 386-234-0266
Just curious can you regrind the bevels on the old teeth to get more hours out of them? P.S. liked the vid always interested in cost per hour of equipment
Glad you liked the video.
No, there is not enough carbide remaining to get the correct cutting geometry back by sharpening.
Thanks for the tips, good info for me because I have a big piece of land that needs lots of clearing and want a mulcher to help clear for hay fields. I am trying to find out the machine operating costs(total) to see if I can do a few side jobs to pay for the initial cost of the package. I'm running a 259D cat machine. I guess, finding a benchmark cost per hour first, then estimate time applied to the square foot, acre, linear mile based on the density of vegetation etc... to bid jobs competitively, i'm here in central TX not looking to take over the market but just want to be somewhere in the middle of the game. how do you bid jobs? thanks again.
You are on the right track, Jimmy.
First step is to determine exactly your cost-per-hour to run your machine. This includes every cost associated with conducting a forestry mulching business. Once you know what it costs to run (economic supply), you compare it to what people in your local area will be willing to pay for this, or similar services (economic demand). This comparison will indicate if you have a viable, sustainable business.
If you want to send me your email, I'll send you something that will help you to figure this out. My email is: dclevinger@cfsmulching.com
Estimating Jobs:
How I figured this out was to use my new forestry mulcher on my land first. I picked out some different areas that were each different in the density of material that was growing on it. I had some pasture that was overgrown for 2-years, an area that was grown up with denser saplings for about 10-years, and an area that looked like a "typical' established forest. It doesn't really matter how big the area is, but an acre or two would be a good sample size. I mulched each area and timed how long it took to clear it. I have a APP on my phone that I measured the exact boundaries of what I cut. I then converted this to a Hours-Per-Acre number, for each different density. Multiply this Hours Per
Acre with your Cost Per Hour to figure out the estimated Cost Per Acre to clear. This will get you started to accurately estimating jobs. You get better at it as you go. Most customers know their acreage and expect to hear a cost per acre. I give cost estimates that normally are within 10% of what it actually took to clear. But I work by the hour and charge by the machine hour. So sometimes the final cost can be a little less than I estimated, or a little more.
Hope this explanation makes sense. If not, email me and I can show an example using numbers.
I got started in this business because I bought this machine to develop the 54 of forested land that I own. A forestry mulcher, grapple, and a tooth bucket are great tools for a farm. It turned into a business from there. Good luck with yours.
Thank you so much for your reply, what you said is exactly the way I was going to move forward ( do time studies on my own land). I have different densities of vegetation, some solid thickets with trees mixed in, to mesquite trees varying sizes surrounded with native grass and brush. and thank you for the insight on how people look at pricing. I mean customers what a bid for the job, but behind the scenes the operator must convert to a time factor since maintenance and wear is based on Hobbs time.( I used to run small helicopters so I can relate to your formulas. when I told my students something like $365.00 per hour, they would freak-out, but be surprised how much you can do in an hour). so once again Thanks for the info on how to approach this business, I'll email you for the info you offered, Jimmy
Thank you for the informative video. Do you have a ballpark idea of what a forestry package (falling object protection, 3/4" glass door, heavy side windows, reverse fan, engine compartment seals and cylinder covers) cost? I am not looking for a quote, just a rough idea.
Does anyone have any experience with trying to sharpen the carbide cutters with a diamond wheel? It might only extend the life of the cutters a little bit, but may be worth it.
Bobcat’s forestry protection package costs about $8000. Bobcat has a very effective protection system. Absolutely necessary and worth it.
Thank you! Great information.
@@kurt8386 There’s not a lot of carbide tip to work with, and after its worn down and rounded, it’s not possible to get the correct angle geometry back by sharpening. I’ve taken a worn one to both a machine shop and a blade sharpening shop that sharpens carbide cutters for stump grinders, and they both said its not possible to sharpen these.
@@clevingerforestservicesllc1164 Thanks! Your response is helpful.
I have run heavy equipment my whole life, this is good solid info my friend ! I really can’t stand bobcat because of the feet controls, I prefer the John deer or cat controls as they are much more responsive I feel to operator reactions.feet controls feel lagging to me? But hey it works for you so I’m not knocking you just don’t like them myself.
Scott Sutton This machine has joystick controls, ac/heat, air ride seat, radio, sound proofing, and a big roomy cab. It's very comfortable and easy to operate. They still make those stick & rudder machines for a cheaper price, but are old school.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC thanks for the update it’s been a lot of years since I even been in one and it shows clearly..
Thanks for the video. Can the carbide portion of the blade not be sharpened with say a diamond disk?
A diamond disk would work on the carbide, but two things- the way the carbide insert is design, after it wears down and rounds off, there isn't enough carbide remaining to sharpen that stick up above the cast tool holder. And second, because there is not enough material left, you can't get the correct geometry cut back onto the carbide that will give it a cutting edge. I've tried, and I've also taken a worn out tooth to a machine shop. They told me about the geometry part. I just price the cost of new replacement teeth into my operating cost, and replace them after the 300-400 hour useful life.
Clevinger Forest Services, LLC, great explanation, thank you, sir!