Can You Use Recycled Plastic For Railway Sleepers?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- Could recycled plastic be a practical alternative to wooden sleepers (railroad ties) for your garden railway? Yes, I really think so. So far I am really impressed with the company and the product. How long will they last? I don't know but I'm sure they'll out-last me : - )
www.ngp.ie/ is the website for New Generation Plastics.
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Tim, I have a model garden railway, the original permanent way was made of plywood covered in roofing felt but eventually the plywood delaminates and expands and becomes useless. I discovered recycled plastic timber and boards and bit by bit having been replacing it all. The "plastic wood" can be worked by normal wood tools, doesn't require any treatment and will outlast me. I use a company called Filcris here in the UK. - Dave
Plywood is never good outdoors. You want pressure treated lumber.
Seconding recycled plastic timber. Used it to build a back deck at a job I was working at last year, easy as pie to work with yet still durable. When I saw this video I immediately remembered that material and think it'd make for great sleepers.
I'm still impressed with your endless optimism and ingenuity. No doubt you'll come up with a solution for the crossing - I have faith in you. Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪.
Hello fellow Ikea-Lander 😆
I kind of expected for you to have made a plastic beam extruder, but this is great as well seeing the railway expand!
The same thought crossed my mind. Tim has the skills and experience to build that machine or system. And material is free and underutilized.
Love to - but no time!
Tim does the best sponcered ads! This is the only channel I'll actually watch sponcered ads and not skip.
Just a heads up, the sun will degrade plastic over time. If there is uv stabilizer in the masterbatch (the additive with colour in it) the uv degradation will be slowed but not halted. I'm a plastics maker so i do this for a living. Keep up the work, its jolly good fun to watch
though, black plastic lasts a LOT longer under uv, paint should be enough in a year after seeing if there's degradation, can pick up dregs of exterior latex just about anywhere.
“Carbon Black” / Charcoal (all essential the same thing) does help with UV (albeit as you stated, not perfectly), so between that and any additional UV Stabilizers it should last a good long while.
After that it can be used in a Waste to Energy Plant with good Emissions control, or even “thermally recycled” via Pyrolysis back to Crude Oil.
Worse Case Scenario, Well Ventilated High Temperature Burning can work decently in a pinch.
Either way this is way better than it being in a landfill or being litter!
@@ericlotze7724 it could be argued that a landfill is the best place for it. once you trap carbon in the plastic, you can put it back in the ground, and since most modern landfills are lined, they'll be safely locked up forever.
@@felderup not forever, until the liner breaks. Most landfills contain all sorts of nasties, not just Carbon/Biomass etc so I view them as a bad option. Only make sense in areas that cannot afford anything else, but even then just a temporary solution until a proper Sorting+Recycling+Disposal Ecosystem can be made
I agree to an extent on the carbon sequestration aspect (there is even some goofy paper on doing this with timber, and one on biomass slurry injection), but with charcoal (washed of minerals, similar to leach based mining), or Carbon Black (from conventional methods, or Methane Pyrolysis) it can be done efficiently and safely; essentially reverse coal mining!
Granted Biochar (to an extent, more data needed on how long term this carbon stays in the soil), Enhanced Weathering, and Storage in Building Materials are the main methods i expect to see used.
@@ericlotze7724 the fill back home, which was a while ago, did open air burning. made some parts of nova scotia kinda stinky, my grammy did pick up an abandoned cat though, so it was worth going there. anyway, yah, some of those chemicals will eat through the liner. there may come a time when old landfills are the new mine, lot of valuable stuff was tossed in em.
Thanks for doing more on the railway! For an existing track, you could fab an "X" or "cross" intersection piece. I think they're also called "level junctions". Lots of examples with industrial railways.
that would be a crossover
😢
Cool fact: Plastic is used as a sleeper material on some light railway (tram) networks because of it’s… plasticity! the ability of plastic to be compressed and stretched makes it ideal for dampening vibrations (and thus noise) caused by rail vehicles in urban areas.
Always cool to see this railway evolving!
For crossing an existing track, I would create a # shape and weld it from the bottom into one solid piece, then connect to tracks with fishplates in all directions.
Watching your projects being built has been amazing over the years. What amazes me most is the help you have. Everyone I know would cry and complain, or they would be 'too busy' to help, lol.
I've said it before but it bears repeating, I really enjoy the sense of fun that Tim and Will display when they are engaged in the projects.
I mean the same goes for all those that help, they really have a positive attitude.
But there really is a special chemistry between Tim and Will.
It warms the heart to witness it.
I imagine before too long, they'll have to be beating volunteers back with a stick. This all way too much fun and I'm glad it's being shared.
All you need is a popular TH-cam channel and then suddenly you'll have more help than you can use 😀
The real railroads used the same type of plastic about ten years ago against wooden ties. They were made from recycled plastic soda bottles crushed together to form a tie. Don't know how it worked out since I have not read the outcome. Cost wise they are about the same. Can't wait to see what you make next.
Have seen them used in the American outside model rail tracks too. Mostly seen the plastic used in fence posts here in NZ, no chance of rot creeping in that is for sure. Safe travels. Ken Allen
I work for the Washington DC metro rail system. We are also trying out plastic ties made from a similar material for our tracks.
Interesting. I imagine you'd need a much bigger profile, which will be harder to produce. Let us know how you get on?
We've used plastic ties for 7.5in gauge ride on trains for over 10 years now in the hobby. These ties have held up in the Texas sun, and Alaskan winters. I think you will have no issues with them.
The problem is that you also have plastic waste.
@@sjaakvaag Yes but you have less of it to deal with if some of that waste spends an extra 20 years as railway ties first
Tim, a tool called a bending fork might come in handy for rolling that flat steel stock vertically to mount the rails on the sleepers - just food for thought.
Love this series btw!! I've been trying to convince my boss that we need a railway for our steel yard :)
thank you. Yes, I made a pair of those but I couldn't find them : - (
For the crossing tracks, you could do it like a combination of points and a turntable. Just swivel one bit of track when needed. Either mount it in a tub of some sort with wheels in like a railway turntable, or just pick it up and move it by hand.
I need to replace some wooden sleepers in my gargen, looks like I know what I am going to change them too. 👍 Thanks for taking us on your railway journey. 🤗
Following this project is one of the best 'Look forward to' productions I enjoy. Just fantastic "Can Do' approach to a requirement for the bigger picture 👍. Hoping the plastic sleepers will hold up to the U.V as well as treated wood can. Time will tell. Many thanks again for taking us along for the ride.
Cheers
Pete' New Zealand.
This is my favourite thing on TH-cam. I have loved watching it evolve and am very excited for future developments. I don't have many good ideas but I am very good with a cup of tea and a biscuit
Tim, unless you've come to an answer on crossing existing track, I have a potential solution:
Google "figure eight model trainers set" and you'll see a special "X" track piece that sort of acts like a permanent switch track, allowing perpendicular travel across another set of tracks. Hopefully this helps, and please keep up the great work!
Crossing an existing track, eh? That's definitely going to be a bit more precise than your previous work. Luckily, the general principle works exactly the same as your points do - you need a Frog or a guide rail to keep the wagons in the correct direction.
You always make my day when relesing one of these videos, just pure enjoyment while watching.
This is exactly what I was wanting to use for my farm rail stuff the first thing I'll be building is a small rail line for my sawmill to get the cut lumber off the mill out of the really tight space the mill has to go
I can't wait for the twenty-year follow-up on these plastic sleepers.
You'll have to wait. That's the whole point!
I know it would probably be overkill, but can I dream that you will use a turntable for your crossing?
Thanks for showing uses for recycled plastic! I've been demonstrating how to recycle plastic in some of my science classes. The stuff is amazing!
Take good care!
There's a crowd in Mayo, doing similar work, called Murray recyling that make recyled plastic 'lumber' and products (benches, fencing posts, decking, planters, etc.). They're actually such a good use of otherwise not very useful plastic. The picnic benches can take serious abuse (weather and vandalism) and basically be fine. I've seen that myself over roughly 15 years.
I love great examples of re-use/recycle verus landfill.
Wow! Very impressive and thoughtful!
For sentimental reasons, I personally would keep the very first sleeper ever laid as wood; just to mark the beginning!
Many of the "child-ride" railways in Australia are going to recycled plastic sleepers.
I look forward too your up-date on the plastic sleepers in 20 years.
Recycled plastics are the way of the future. Renewable recyclable resource. Cant get more Eco than that. Still havent got over your drumming skills.
25 years ago or so company started up in a town called Latrobe, Pennsylvania,15650, home of Mr. Rogers and Arnold Palmer. They used plastic and recycled plastic from milk jugs and other sources. They made fence posts and fence rails and they worked out great.
Is that trex plastic decking?
I love these railway videos, thanks Tim and Sandra
I really wish recycled plastic profiles were available here in Australia in hardware stores they would have so many uses in the garden, never rot and be an excellent reuse of a waste product. Unfortunately they aren’t available, local councils seem to be able to get the stuff for use in landscaping but not the general public
Yay, more field railway stuff I love this type of video.
Great hope that you can continue with more of plastic sleepers they even look the part.
Looking great and the railway empire expands!
The Massachusetts commuter rail uses plastic sleepers (or ties, as us Americans call them) on a small section of the Newburyport/Rockport line in Gloucester.
Creosote and used motor oil , I know environmentally unfriendly , however the post my grandfather put in have lasted since 1960s . I absolutely love the rail road ! maybe to much gets me thinking I need one, for what I am not sure yet.
Just creosote an mineral oil is typically enough. You can add some old oil to help deter bugs, but dont use too much and let it dry/absorb fully for a few days before placing them on the ground.
Love all the Railway videos!
Loving the mill, that's got a bit of power!! 😁
I miss read the title as using plastic for railway rail. Was very intrigued about that!!!! Brillant to see a great product being made, have seen posts for farm fencing made from similar recycled plastic in new zealand.
You could permanently date some of the plastic and wood ties. Then let the experiment begin.
Thank's for sharing.
Tbh railway sleepers are a perfect job for old plastics, since that stuff decays so slowly its longevity works for this!
Love it!!! Good job!!!!
Have you considered moving the drying tunnel so that it covers tracks 1 & 2, rather than 2 & 3? That way, you'd only have to build another point on track 3 and get rid of the crossing. But again, where's the fun in that?
Great progress on an amazing project! Now if we can just get you working on faster than light travel... Or maybe cold fusion??? 👍😁👍
👍 Brilliant, love watching your railway expand 👍
Awesome.
I love it.
Maybe a fixed X-Crossing, I think you call it level junction or flat crossing in English. It would only need some welding, a few metal plates from scrap for the guiding rails on the inside, and it’s done. A downside of that is that you won’t be able to switch to the other track.
...Unless it's a double slip crossing... :)
@@ErickC Yes but he already said in a previous video that he is not a big fan of the complex switches/junctions, because it’s just a small field railway and it doesn’t need to be as complicated and sophisticated. But of course, a double slip crossing is possible, but is it worth it?
I love this project.
These projects?
I love all of it!
I’m happy that there’s a company recycling plastic into useful stuff. I think we even saw some of those benches when we were in your corner of the world 5 years ago.
But here we go: when you drilled the necessary holes in the sleepers, you created necessary waste, which I hope you were able to collect separately.
And then …. 20 years from now, someone will dig up / remove that railway (gawd forbid, I know) - and then there’s still/again plastic waste.
I worry about this problem as much as I worry about climate change.
You're quite right, of course. But I've long since given up all hope for the future - just happy to wake up and find another day to enjoy.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 😥😔
Tracks crossing at 90° just need a cut/gap to let the flanges through and support as close to the cut ends as you can manage.
For crossing another track just find a piece of model railway track to show you all of the details.
Mark from Melbourne Australia
Impressive, as always. I believe I shall start calling you Tim the tank engine!
By the way, as an alternative to those beautiful fish plates, could you have welded an extension piece in the barn, and then used the extra long rail? I believe in modern railroads they weld the track pieces together, but in situ, which is more complicated.
Spectacular job Brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure
Thanks Tim
Well done again Tim, it’s fair coming along. Necessity is the mother of invention.
looks great, i really like the idea of plastic sleepers. i think you could really do with a strimer to clear the weeds off the track.
Yes, please!
For the crossover: The technical term for these is "railroad diamond" or "level junction". I find railroad diamond to be more specific.
You start by joining adjacent rails on the approach to the diamond. Then you get U-pieces where the base of the U forms the running rail through the diamond and each arm of the U forms a guide rail to make sure that the wagons stay aligned. Many diamonds will also have guide/check rails in the middle of the actual diamond part, opposite the base of the U. The check rails should also have a flared approach to guide the trains. Because the flanges on your wagons as well as the width of the wheel are wide, I don't think the designs where one rail is slightly above another would be suitable.
This image from a wikipedia article has a good drawing, though you can ignore the gauge stuff as that's irrelevant. I also think using angle would be easier since it's more rigid.
no picture arrived - but I assume the wheels run on their flanges?
You got a great deal there well done. Looks like awesome stuff. cheers J
Great video...👍
For the crossing the easiest solution might be to just make a diamond crossing although i saw somebody else mention a turntable which would be better if you’re trying to save material
Very cool Tim :)
Look up a piece of track called a diamond you're going to have to use guide rails for the flanges so they don't fall off
You should maybe add a check rail on the inside track on that sharp curve to prevent the wheels climbing over the track
But when adding a check rail you should find a way to greace the flanges on the back
Thinking about it, my local small-scale riding railroad installed plastic ties a long time ago and they were fine; narrower gauge and much smaller much more frequent ties, bedded, carrying what was quite often similarly heavy loads
We have a company in Victoria making HDPE recycled plastic into Railway Sleepers ( Ties) for 1,067 gauge ( 3ft.6in.) In Queensland and some 1,435 gauge (4ft.8,5in.) In New South Wales.
Experiments are being made in Broad Gauge ( 5ft.3in.) In Victoria.
Raw Material is Agricultural Black HDPE water fluming, and soil bed cover sheet.
Well done.
There's quite a few companies near me that offer them in brown for use in fencing, they're quite inexpensive and as you said, they'll probably outlast the owner.
They've been quite popular with the neighbours.
Another brilliant Inovation! Again well don sir! I sometimes wish i were on the other side of the pond. I would come and help. If nothing else, i could trim the grass and maintain the railroad!
Ha! Yes, please : - )
This kind of black mixed recycle plastic, is used for poles in the Netherlands often, like hiking markers and such.
I'm engaging because nobody knows a better way to get the recommendation algorithm to work.
my only idea on passing over another track is to cut out the track section. Lay in the new track, Then build a track section to put in the middle of the cross track. just making sure that there is enought room for sloop of the boggie wheels and everthing else. The wheel should be able to roll over the gap pretty easy.
In order to build your "crossover" - aka "diamond" - you are going to have to build a control tower to supervise traffic. Safety first!
Outstanding Video Sir Cheers 😇😇👌👌👍👍🍻🍻
So far So good ! WEED control might be your next issue ! LOL. DISH soap and water to kill weeds works in my garden ! Are you planning to build a round house ( turn table ) ?
Coming along and build a diamond like we have here in the states where two rail lines cross each other
Le plastique c'est fantastique ! et le caoutchouc c'est doux !
im actually trying to replicate this for my my Gauge 1 garden railroad because off-the-self gauge 1 track is very expensive about $9/ft and i tried aluminum track but thats only about $5/ft and i need about 60 feet (thats about 18 meters) so ive been looking into casting waste plastic and using scrap wood to make my track for as cheap as possible
The only problem with composite boards I have seen is they start sagging in heat. I feel like you might not have to worry about that…
Oh my. All those lovely toys. 🙂 ... sort of two level crossings at right angles to each other?
That’s fun.
You know, a lot of the railway is Overgrown, so Tim, I recommend that you take the time to clear out the weeds and also clean up the rails so that when you need to move them, it will be much easier.
Probably, but I wouldn't recommend it, continuous rail traffic will cause vibrations and result in the plastic cracking. I think wood is the way to go, it can probably take the rattling of frieght cars better. But still keep up the good work.
I use recycled for bases for my outside railway. 3 wide equals 18in ideal for 0 gauge.
Sounds like you need to construct a diamond crossing Tim.
The Ffestiniog railway in Wales has been using plastic sleepers made of that stuff for years. They were worried to start with because of the heat from the steam engines and cinders etc, but they have been fine. then obviously don't use them in the engine yards
Interesting - thanks
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 I might be wrong, but I seam to remember on the TV programme shown on UKTV on demand network they said they got the idea of Network Rail (the UK's current infrastructure operator).
A lot of bollards in English carparks and streets now are made of this plastic to, it offers reasonable protection to the public as well as marking out areas, with the benefits that if knocked hard they share off rather than destroy vehicles bodies, as well as they don't rust like steel and iron ones, or rot like wooden ones. They have another benefit, in that the unspeakable persons stealing cast iron etc for scrap don't want them, so leave them alone.
I'm told its cheep to produce and is recycling at its best.
The name of the supplier for plastic sleepers used in a miniature railway carrying passengers is Cromar White who I believe is base in Anglesey. It is normally supplied in 3m lengths and the railway would not go back to wooden sleepers. I am led to believe that they regularly ship this material and all manner of railway items to Ireland, if that is where you are based.
thanks - I wrote to them yesterday but nothing yet..
For crossing over tracks there’s a unique diamond that you can make that goes over the rails instead of through. Basically just make a small ramp that ends right before the rail on the outside and then put 2 pieces of track in the gauge slightly taller than the regular rail and then another ramp on the other side. Look up high speed-low speed diamonds for examples
Ah! Interesting - a slightly raised cross-over?
Yes! It’s mainly used so that the main line can run higher speeds but it’s also probably a lot cheaper and easier to construct than a regular diamond which obviously needs specialized parts vs just having to either raise your crossover track a few centimeters or make 4 ramp tracks
@@nicmccoy6459 Tim has a welding machine and a plasma cutter. A standard diamond will be much easier to fabricate than a no-interference diamond.
@@RussellNelson oh I don’t disagree at all that he could or doesn’t have the materials to do it but I think just raising up your track a few inches is a lot cheaper and quicker to design and build than fabricating an entire diamond and then taking the time to assemble and troubleshoot
@@nicmccoy6459 What troubleshoot? A diamond is just a box made of strap rail with some notches cut at the corners for the flanges of the opposing track to slide through. The four edges of the box have to overlap, so you cut notches at top for the X rails and at the bottom for the Y rails, then assemble and weld the box together. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.
I knew a channel haddent been showing up in my recommend. Glad TH-cam got their crap together
Microplastic flying everywhere… very nice 👍
I'm in a 7 1/4 model railway and we've been using plastic for sleepers for 5 years
And how are they holding up?
@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 hi there they are doing fine thanks the railway is in a wooded valley and so there's no direct sun ,the old wooden sleepers are being replaced as a matter of course and not reacting to rot as a long term preventive maintenance
I enjoy watching how you guys handle problem solving.
Hurrah!
'We have a mountain of worn automobile and truck tires in the US and no viable way to dispose of them safely. Use the material from tires to make sleepers. You can mold steel plates into the sleepers with threaded holes to affix a rail anchoring system.
.Hey Tim, giving my opinion on 8:26
This might be a bit tedious to do, but I think your best bet is to make a railroad diamond (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_junction), this would require you to cut a small section of track out of the pre-existing track, assemble the diamond and place it where the section you cut out was. It would also mean you don't need to do anything to cross from either section, just roll on through the diamond and make sure you dont get hit by another train.
I think your next project should be a passenger waggon! Would look spiff drawn by the compressed air engine!
Can we see more of Tornado please?
They make recycled plastic crossties for standard gauge railroads too.
A level crossing is not that hard to build. The gold miners built a lot of them back in the day. If you can, look for mining railroad and it’s history. There you’ll find a lot of information about track, switches and mine cars, including the side dump muck cars. Which is nothing more than your flat wagons with 4 sides, with 2 sides that pop open.
If you can find an electric golf cart, make an engine out of it.
For crossing existing track, have a look at American railroads. They have some strange ideas that seem to werk.