Wall Street and Ivy League Hazing - The Dartmouth Story
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2012
- A Rolling Stone report by Janet Reitman details the story of Andrew Lohse and his claims about horrible hazing rituals at Dartmouth University. Does this frat-boy culture translate to Wall Street? Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur discuss on The Young Turks.
Read the article here: www.rollingstone.com/culture/n...
Watch - more on the hazing at Dartmouth: • Video
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They say 95% of sexual assaults go unreported ... but how could anyone know that? How could anyone know how many things are unreported?
+treehuggerkyle That stat is often misrepresented by all sides. 95% of sexual assaults go unreported to the police.
I have a family member who went to Dartmouth. It's just SAE that does it there. It's known as the douchey frat that uses cocaine. SAE across the country has similar problems. I don't think its fair to generalize an entire group of people based off one fraternity.
It's Dartmouth COLLEGE!!! Get it right!
-A Dartmouth Student and TYT Fan
I dislike this video for several reasons. The most important is the gross generalizations made about fraternity members. These assumptions are taken from an article that was written by someone who was suspended for drug possession, looking for a way to mitigate his own unacceptable behavior.
First: The reason why Dartmouth has a higher rate of reported sexual assaults is because the college offers various resources to students who have been subject to sexual assault, so they can get the help they need. Dartmouth recognizes that sexual assault is a problem across universities and provides resources so that victim may feel more inclined to address and report the issue. Dividing the number of reported sexual assaults by school enrollment does not tell an accurate story of campus culture.
Second: Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner did not issue a bail out to help the bros. It was a critical economic decision to help provide liquidity to banks so that finical institutions didn't default on their debts. In the long run, this helped our economy recover from what could have been an even worse recession. This video made a character judgment on both Paulson and Geithner which was unwarranted and uniformed.
Lastly: The greek system at Dartmouth is unlike any other in the country. All parties are open - no guest lists, no exclusivity. Additionally, rush is delayed until sophomore year, so that freshmen have an opportunity to bond within their own class.
Dartmouth is not a place dominated by "rape culture" and misogyny. it is a tightly college community where students grow both academically and socially. The reason why so many alumni work on Wall Street or in politics is not that they were "frat brothers": They are smart and graduated from a great school. This video simply makes the wrong assumptions.
First, its dartmouth college, not university. Second, frats are not like this story says. Third, you don't have to ever touch frats if you don't want to.
Dartmouth is a university ..
Tommy but it's name is Dartmouth College
First, it's Dartmouth College, not dartmouth college. Second, frats are worse than what they outlined in this story. Third, you're right about not having to "touch frats if you don't want to," but you're going to have a really tough time making new friends in your sophomore year when all your friends from freshman year ditch you.
Brian Crawford,
>Hurdurrr I can't make friends so nobody should be able to go to a fraternity so people like me might have a chance to become the friends of people I just robbed their fraternity life.
To your third point, of course you don't have to even consider being part of greek life if you don't want to. Does that mean that hazing as severe as this, to the extent that it means regulations prohibit it, is okay, and that students should assume that if you want to be part of greek life what you're really wanting is to be covered in puke in a crate, for instance? Some people may want to be part of it, some people may not, and that is perfectly fine since greek life cultivates a very interesting environment and a way to really socialise and put yourself out there that might fit some students and not others. However, that people should be complacent to such hazing and decide whether or not they want to join an organisation that does come with several opportunities under the assumption that you have to be willing to walk under ball sacks to be part of it is appealing to me. Ps - I know all frats are not like this story says, I know hazing is not like this at every frat or at every college or university but I am certain that it is like this at some of them and saying "you don't have to touch frats" if you don't want to and attempting to normalise something that is not only disgusting but against regulation is not a solution in places where this is a problem.
@TheYoungTurks YESSSSSSSSSSS CENK IS BACK!!! WHEN WILL YOU SHARE YOUR STORIES!?!?!?!?
So do you think the percentage is like 50%?
Lol, that quote at the end was the best!
but then again, how does it compare to regular universities?
Im happy Cenk's back. :)
i was in a fraternity some hazing but nothing like this. why would you do this to your friend or future friend???
A coach on my school's campus got fired for knowing about hazing rituals with her sports team. The ritual in question was one where freshmen were blindfolded and squirted with waterguns. Compared to this, that is a joke. There are frats on campus who do real hazing, nothing as bad as Dartmouth, but making their pledges drink obscene amounts of alcohol, and the school doesnt touch them. The whole situation is ridiculous, and now that woman's career is over, she will never work as a coach again.
I wondered that too.
for a person to think anything in life is so important that in order to obtain it/be a part of it they will subject themselves to shit like this makes me question the type of person they are. you simply cannot be happy with yourself as a person if your seeking acceptance that bad. pathetic
I go to a school which focuses on physics and engineering, with "houses" (basically dorms where people stay all 4 years) so we have traditions ... which is often mislabeled as hazing
Also, this is why I don't go to frat parties, unless I go to a frat where I am friends with some of the brothers, but rarely even then. Even though the frats at my school are relatively tame, there is still an atmosphere that certain behavior is obligatory if you go to the brothers' parties. Not as bad as in this story, but it is generally uncomfortable. Unfortunately, given the location of my school and the way our campus is, that means I only go to a party like 2 or 3 times a semester.
Cenk is back, AWESOME
You know, when forensics say no sign of struggle, I was in the house and heard no screams, and i know she's lied to me in the past, it's kinda hard to know if what she's saying is the truth
Studies have actually shown that hazing does lead a individual to become significantly more loyal to the group he or she joins. That it increases dedication, and privacy of the group.
I personally find it stupid, when I joined the IB at my school, there was a hazing ritual but I managed to skip the first year, so I didn't have to to attend. I saw it done to others though, two people walked away from it, they've been treated quite harsh since they didn't conform, one of them dropped out.
If they're never reported, how do you know they aren't reported?
Two things have always struck me about fraternity hazy: its sadomasochistic homoerotic nature; and that most involved are clueless about the homoerotic component.
Does one have to be a super skeptic to wonder how one arrives at a statistic like "95 percent of sexual assaults among college students are never reported"?
"Require its pledges to have sex with a frozen turkey" and I fell of my chair laughing ^^
What's the point of fraternities?
why do people join fraternaties?
"No sign of struggle" DOES NOT mean no rape. "The crime, committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence."
You know, every person I have ever known has lied to me in the past. It happens, derp.
dartmouth has always been my dream school because of their academic program but the whole greek life thing has always been a push factor for me
wallstreet guy:"im in the top 1 %:)
me:damn son wtf did the turkey do 2 u
I was curious about that too. I don't doubt that the majority of sexual assaults on or off campus are rarely reported, but I wonder how they came up with such an exact statistic like that.
No amount of money can ever cure stupid, no matter what school you go to
I'm glad I didn't join a fraternity when I was in college.
Its our own fault. Not as a government, but as individuals. We choose to put the cool kids up on pedestals and strive to be them. We give them all the power and let them walk all over us. We create self entitled narcisists by feeding their ego. If we just didnt give a shit about who's the hottest guy in class this wouldnt happen.
I agree. I was just suggesting that they might not have pulled that percentage out of thin air.
and people wonder why i scoff at them when they ask me why im not in a frat.
Did you sit in that courtroom and hear the lies she told about me and my father? She told all of her friends AND the courtroom (which she later admitted that she lied about) he drags her out in the yard and beats her regularly, and she also says he beats me on a regular basis. if you see my videos, you can REALLY see the scars, bruises, and scratches, right?
Did it ever occur to you that she was too terrified to scream and was like a deer in headlights?
I have difficulty understanding what you're saying. Could you clarify a bit? I think I understand the latter part of your comment a bit better, however, figures drawn from anonymous surveys are taken very seriously in criminology and other fields. The figures should be analysed critically, but to just dismiss them as bullshit is not very professional.
What?
How would you even collect a statistic like "95% of sexual assaults go unreported"?
Welcome back Cenk!
LMAO at that laugh after "Yes means anal". He was trying to sound all shocked and serious too lol
It certainly goes a long way as to explaining why they have absolutely no qualms about making us all go through the same thing...
Well, I could have heard something, if she screamed, because while this was happening, she was in the room right above me in a house with quite thin walls while I was watching TH-cam videos.
Actually i believe that the British Met office believes that sexual assault happens on a 50/50 basis in the UK but men are to "shamed" to report it, even more so then women are due to the whole "manly men dont get abused" thing, much like abuse from partners.
There are our best and brightest?
no excuse for frat boys, but i'd say don't give the frat boys the satisfaction. don't go their parties. plenty of other decent kids in college that you can make your boyfriend.
This was an interesting article. Most State frats don't go that hardcore on pledge's.
I like that Anna has stepped up..
I'm guessing they asked anonymously. That way they'd know that 400 people anonymously admitted to being sexually assaulted, and compared that with 21 reported cases.
who were the rapers in those stats? were the attackers all students?
And what about when the drunk girl says "yes" immediately and shows no sign that she didn't genuinely want to have sex with the sober guy? Do you think that never happens?
You know that that is STILL rape right? They force themselves on passed out women who can't say no, that IS rape. You know Genuine rape.
What pisses me off is that it is not acknowledged that every woman can't speak on these sexual assault issues. It's too damned inclusive. The girls that let the guy take off her shirt and pants, worse yet her bra/panties too, but then tell the guy "no" need to fuck off. The guy would still be wrong for assault, but her complicity shoots sky high in that situation. We usually don't exactly know when these girls are speaking. Their voices aren't credible.
It's about the frat boy culture that continues in Wall Street (and other places) after college.
There are frat boy parties and hazing at my university. I think the same happens at Ivy League schools, except the frat boys are smarter and maybe fewer people are in frats because most everyone is a nerd/geek.
he did say "nearly"
I've seen women use the system (and it worked by the way) to say "I was drunk and didn't know what i was doing and i fucked him and now i regret it, so fuck his life up because obviously it's his fault".
So are you saying that being gay is about vomit and feces, or that straight people don't do fetish stuff?
In other words, arguing for the sake of argument, making no particular point because you already see the consent issue behind everything...
Rolling Stone retracted this article...
that slam....GDI
Again, this offered zero evidence for allegations. "Accordiing to sources" is not evidence.
When I was in college, I also joined a fraternity--but not SAE. At least at my school, SAE had a bad reputation, and everyone that I spoke to said it stood for "Sexual Assault Expected."
I always thought it was one of those "interfraternal rivalry" things--like the rivalry between Duke and UNC, or Harvard and MIT. After reading this story, however...kinda not sure anymore.
"95% of all sexual assaults are never reported"
I'm curious how it's possible to know that....
Surveys that may ask, for example:
1. Have you been sexually assaulted before
2. Did you report it to the authorities.
some do, but most dont.
Would SAE be Sigma Alpha Epsilon?
No...it's based on the number of women who report having experienced criminal sexual assault vs the number who report it to police. It's not like they're ashamed to even say it...they just don't go through the justice system with it.
Uhh...Question? What the hell is the POINT of hazing? How the hell does ritual humiliation for newbies do ANYTHING good?
The fact that anyone thinks it's a good idea is just mind boggling to me.
ok, what's the point then
Incorrect good sir. This number can be reached by asking people in research questionnaires ''how likely are you to report being sexually assaulted?''... then you can obtain this number.
it's dartmouth college...
Surveys, have you heard of them? It's when people go around talking to others and anonymously asking rather they have been sexually assaulted and rather they have reported them in .
You don't have to have a crime reported to know it happened.
However, the statistic should be prefaced with "an estimated".
I once read an e-mail posted on the Snopes forums from a right-wing knucklehead who said he didn't care about the torture in Gitmo because he thought it was no worse than a college hazing. He had no idea how right he was.
Dr Seuss came out of Dartmouth :)
Cambridge Massachusetts, not talking about the UK
Dartmouth College should NEVER be called Dartmouth University. Dartmouth University was the name of Dartmouth when New Hampshire tried to force Dartmouth College to become a public university. Wiki Dartmouth University and Dartmouth College v. Woodward.
ORLY? You've "seen" this? Pfft! In my personal experience, a girl should be able to have a drink without being asked to step outside and "talk" so she can be pressed up against a wall, choked until she consents, and dragged off to a truck.
My avatar fits well with the purpose of my channel, and that is all irrelevant to my ability to talk about serious issues.
Not all people who are "raped" while drunk are actually passed out. You can be drunk enough to act very irrationally but remain conscious, have (non-legally) consensual sex with a sober person, and then accuse him (or occasionally her).
As someone who lives on a Frat street in one of the biggest party universities, I can't say i've seen it, but knowing the quality of people they produce is alarming. Same with the Sorostitutes.
A possible way they got that figure is through anonymous surveys.
A: In a private residence, LOL.
B: Yes it is, but no it is not an option for many victims. DOUBLE WHAMMY!
95% of sexual assaults are not reported? How the hell do they figure that one out?
fraternities are the only place where young college men can act totally gay and not get judged for it.
Think about this, this is where the kids of the top 1% go to receive their educational/moral foundations. From this kind of experience they go onto life “Hazing” the 99%.
Sounds pretty hot, where do I sign up?
HA you're the peasant my friend. Now get some shampoo and hit up your boy Juan Sanchez to come mow the grass on my estate.
if u don't wanna get "sexually assaulted", u don't go to their party and drink their beer. where is the problem?
Like a British public school then?
Like I said many comments ago, we're just having a TH-cam discussion and whether his specific details are incorrect (or blatantly made up) are irrelevant to his overall point. Alcoholic consent is iffy, but in of itself. You implied it's iffy for other reasons, like the person is passed out, which is not always case.
OK, "drugged rape laws," irrelevant. And like I said, I agree that it's a good law, but that is irrelevant to your poor treatment of the other guy's point.
This from a graduate of Wharton Business School at UPenn :p
I assume they only haze certain members, the more popular ones I assume get in without doing any of this stuff.
But I have to wonder, who the hell does this, if someone told me to sit in a pool of vomit or w/e i'd tell them to fuck off and leave...what sort of sick society produces people that will put up with this shit to get in with a group (I can understand when your life is at risk, but for social status, fuck that).
No actually I was arguing to defend the other guy's point, which you bastardized through misrepresentation of alcohol rapes. In all of the examples you gave, the rape wasn't because of alcohol but rather because of forced or iffy consent, which would have been considered rape even with a sober victim.
The purpose of the alcohol rape laws is to protect those people whose consent is in no way forced whatsoever, but rather resulted from drunkenness. That is the situation the other guy described.
It's Dartmouth College
It all comes down to the competitive nature of American culture. Despite the rhetoric coming out of public schools; teamwork, cooperation, and respect for your fellow man are not concepts that are AT ALL enforced in the class room. Instead we focus our kids on being the best football player, or having the best grades, or the highest test scores, or class rank, and eventually this line of thinking spills over into adulthood.
exactly how is he a victim if he chose to go along with it to join the faternity?
I notice they had no stats on bro rape, probably because most bro-rapes go unreported. Sad.
denounced is not the same as falsified. alot of rape victims get scared or have been threatened.
and the percentages change because different people are polled by different groups, not because people change their reactions. that should have not even been a statement by you, it should be common sense that all studies dont study the same people
I hope Subaru's cars work better than their ads. This first-car ad keeps stalling.